Help with Cleats and foot pain

[Jeff Strickland]

Hello everyone,

I've already googled for this topic, and while I've found lots of
articles, I've not found anything specific enough to my problem, so
here goes...

I'm having foot pain on medium length fast training rides. At about
1.5 hours, both feet cramp on the outside from the ball of the foot
forward to the two outside toes. The pain is excruciating (aren't all
cramps though?), and I frequently have to stop and get off the bike
for a few minutes. Interestingly enough, If I happen to get them
before a big climb, climbing out of the saddle (lots of downward
pressure?) seems to releive the pain, but soft pedaling is nearly
unbearable. If I stop for a minute or two and then continue with the
ride, the pain subsides, and I'm good to go for the remainder of the
ride. The cramp is always equal in both feet.

Here's the technical details: I'm a Cat4, and a sport MTB racer (I
don't have this issue on the MTB though) I ride in Sidi Energys (size
46) with Look PP396 and red cleats. Cranks are Campagnolo Record 9 -
170mm. I've had this issue for years and have previously ridden on DA
172.5s, Carnac Legend shoes, and Custom Orthotics, and have tried all
combinations of the above. Other than good arch comfort, the
orthotics made no difference. I have tried every type of shoe
tightness from slipper loose to "mistress tight" with no change. I'm
next going to try some Speedplay pedals I suppose. Can anyone give me
some insight into where I should position the cleats? I'm doing the
"over the ball of the foot" thing now, and I'm thinking of sliding the
cleat forward so that the ball is behind the spindle, hopefully taking
some pressure off of the outside of the foot.

Any other suggestions? I'm running out of ideas.

Thanks,
Jeff

[David Wagner]

I used to get foot cramps just lying down, maybe in a strange position. My
mother told me to stand up on the cramping foot, and the cramp subsided.
This sounds a bit like your experience with standing up on the pedals.

It seems that there are two possibilities: pressure at the saddle causing
the cramps and being relieved when you stand up, or it is actually true that
putting pressure on the feet relieves the cramps. Other possibilities are
that simply using different leg muscles, or using them differently to stand,
has some effect.

I would suggest wearing shoes that allow your toes to wiggle, and then
wiggle/flex/extend your toes occasionally while riding. Tight shoes will
eventually encourage arthritis.

The suggestion to consult a doctor is a good one. I would include
circulation problems (while seated on the bike) as an area of investigation.

David Wagner

[Paul Southworth]

In article >,
David Wagner > wrote:
>I used to get foot cramps just lying down, maybe in a strange position. My
>mother told me to stand up on the cramping foot, and the cramp subsided.
>This sounds a bit like your experience with standing up on the pedals.
>
>It seems that there are two possibilities: pressure at the saddle causing
>the cramps and being relieved when you stand up, or it is actually true that
>putting pressure on the feet relieves the cramps. Other possibilities are
>that simply using different leg muscles, or using them differently to stand,
>has some effect.
>
>I would suggest wearing shoes that allow your toes to wiggle, and then
>wiggle/flex/extend your toes occasionally while riding. Tight shoes will
>eventually encourage arthritis.

My feet hurt when the shoes have too much excess volume for my skinny
foot, when there is room above my foot I tend to push down with my
toes to keep the foot from moving around as much, which can contribute
to cramping and pain. The right insoles can help a lot.

[Lee Hurd]

When I've had symptoms like that it's due to my little toe joint being
centered over the outside edge of the shoe sole which causes pain because
the entire foot isn't evenly supported. If you compare the sole width of
your mountain shoes to your road shoes, and it's wider, that might be a
clue. Otherwise it might just be a combination of normal foot swelling and
too tight straps.

Since Look pedals have a lot of pedal spindle to foot distance, you might
want to check where the big joint of your toe is in relation to the pedal
spindle in the 3 o'clock position. When your heel drops at that point in the
downstroke, you can actually find it behind the spindle even if you've done
a by the book job setting up.


"Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
om...
> Hello everyone,
>
> I've already googled for this topic, and while I've found lots of
> articles, I've not found anything specific enough to my problem, so
> here goes...
>
> I'm having foot pain on medium length fast training rides. At about
> 1.5 hours, both feet cramp on the outside from the ball of the foot
> forward to the two outside toes. The pain is excruciating (aren't all
> cramps though?), and I frequently have to stop and get off the bike
> for a few minutes. Interestingly enough, If I happen to get them
> before a big climb, climbing out of the saddle (lots of downward
> pressure?) seems to releive the pain, but soft pedaling is nearly
> unbearable. If I stop for a minute or two and then continue with the
> ride, the pain subsides, and I'm good to go for the remainder of the
> ride. The cramp is always equal in both feet.
>
> Here's the technical details: I'm a Cat4, and a sport MTB racer (I
> don't have this issue on the MTB though) I ride in Sidi Energys (size
> 46) with Look PP396 and red cleats. Cranks are Campagnolo Record 9 -
> 170mm. I've had this issue for years and have previously ridden on DA
> 172.5s, Carnac Legend shoes, and Custom Orthotics, and have tried all
> combinations of the above. Other than good arch comfort, the
> orthotics made no difference. I have tried every type of shoe
> tightness from slipper loose to "mistress tight" with no change. I'm
> next going to try some Speedplay pedals I suppose. Can anyone give me
> some insight into where I should position the cleats? I'm doing the
> "over the ball of the foot" thing now, and I'm thinking of sliding the
> cleat forward so that the ball is behind the spindle, hopefully taking
> some pressure off of the outside of the foot.
>
> Any other suggestions? I'm running out of ideas.
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff

[Rick Onanian]

On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 22:52:52 GMT, Paul Southworth <cnhyf-
> wrote:
> My feet hurt when the shoes have too much excess volume for my skinny
> foot, when there is room above my foot I tend to push down with my
> toes to keep the foot from moving around as much, which can contribute
> to cramping and pain. The right insoles can help a lot.

I think I have this problem...what insole are you using?

--
Rick Onanian

[dianne_1234]

(Jeff Strickland) wrote in message >...
> Hello everyone,
>
> I've already googled for this topic, and while I've found lots of
> articles, I've not found anything specific enough to my problem, so
> here goes...
>
> I'm having foot pain on medium length fast training rides. At about
> 1.5 hours, both feet cramp on the outside from the ball of the foot
> forward to the two outside toes. The pain is excruciating (aren't all
> cramps though?), and I frequently have to stop and get off the bike
> for a few minutes. Interestingly enough, If I happen to get them
> before a big climb, climbing out of the saddle (lots of downward
> pressure?) seems to releive the pain, but soft pedaling is nearly
> unbearable. If I stop for a minute or two and then continue with the
> ride, the pain subsides, and I'm good to go for the remainder of the
> ride. The cramp is always equal in both feet.
>
> Here's the technical details: I'm a Cat4, and a sport MTB racer (I
> don't have this issue on the MTB though) I ride in Sidi Energys (size
> 46) with Look PP396 and red cleats. Cranks are Campagnolo Record 9 -
> 170mm. I've had this issue for years and have previously ridden on DA
> 172.5s, Carnac Legend shoes, and Custom Orthotics, and have tried all
> combinations of the above. Other than good arch comfort, the
> orthotics made no difference. I have tried every type of shoe
> tightness from slipper loose to "mistress tight" with no change. I'm
> next going to try some Speedplay pedals I suppose. Can anyone give me
> some insight into where I should position the cleats? I'm doing the
> "over the ball of the foot" thing now, and I'm thinking of sliding the
> cleat forward so that the ball is behind the spindle, hopefully taking
> some pressure off of the outside of the foot.
>
> Any other suggestions? I'm running out of ideas.
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff

In my experience, part of the solution is gear (shoes, insoles, cleat
position) and another part is yer foot.

I've successfully reducing foot cramps by strengthening the muscles in
my feet. I wear different shoes, go barefoot sometimes, stretch, flex,
etc. I'm guessing wearing different may work different muscles just a
little and prevent atrophy that might occur if I always wore the same
shoes.

[Alexey Merz]

(Jeff Strickland) wrote in message >...

> I'm having foot pain on medium length fast training rides. At about
> 1.5 hours, both feet cramp on the outside from the ball of the foot
> forward to the two outside toes. The pain is excruciating (aren't all
> cramps though?), and I frequently have to stop and get off the bike
> for a few minutes. Interestingly enough, If I happen to get them
> before a big climb, climbing out of the saddle (lots of downward
> pressure?) seems to releive the pain, but soft pedaling is nearly
> unbearable.

Do you stretch before you ride? I've found that manual manipulation of
the ankles, feet, and toes, in addition to the standard ham/quad/calf
stretches, can help significantly with foot pain. This is something to
do both prior to exercise and on rest days.

-Alex Merz

[Tenex]

Jeff Strickland wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I've already googled for this topic, and while I've found lots of
> articles, I've not found anything specific enough to my problem, so
> here goes...
>
> I'm having foot pain on medium length fast training rides. At about
> 1.5 hours, both feet cramp on the outside from the ball of the foot
> forward to the two outside toes. The pain is excruciating (aren't all
> cramps though?),


Can't comment re. cleats etc. But if you have it looked at by a doctor
raise the question of a neuroma (essentially the pinching of the nerves
between the toes - usually the 2/3 interspace). It's much the type of pain
you describe.

If it's relevant it can be relieved by an orthotic but if it develops
surgery may be necessary.

[Lewdvig:^]

Hmmm....

I would like to meet this 'mistress tight' of whom you speak. Sounds fascinating.

(Jeff Strickland) wrote in message >...
> Hello everyone,
>
> I've already googled for this topic, and while I've found lots of
> articles, I've not found anything specific enough to my problem, so
> here goes...
>
> I'm having foot pain on medium length fast training rides. At about
> 1.5 hours, both feet cramp on the outside from the ball of the foot
> forward to the two outside toes. The pain is excruciating (aren't all
> cramps though?), and I frequently have to stop and get off the bike
> for a few minutes. Interestingly enough, If I happen to get them
> before a big climb, climbing out of the saddle (lots of downward
> pressure?) seems to releive the pain, but soft pedaling is nearly
> unbearable. If I stop for a minute or two and then continue with the
> ride, the pain subsides, and I'm good to go for the remainder of the
> ride. The cramp is always equal in both feet.
>
> Here's the technical details: I'm a Cat4, and a sport MTB racer (I
> don't have this issue on the MTB though) I ride in Sidi Energys (size
> 46) with Look PP396 and red cleats. Cranks are Campagnolo Record 9 -
> 170mm. I've had this issue for years and have previously ridden on DA
> 172.5s, Carnac Legend shoes, and Custom Orthotics, and have tried all
> combinations of the above. Other than good arch comfort, the
> orthotics made no difference. I have tried every type of shoe
> tightness from slipper loose to "mistress tight" with no change. I'm
> next going to try some Speedplay pedals I suppose. Can anyone give me
> some insight into where I should position the cleats? I'm doing the
> "over the ball of the foot" thing now, and I'm thinking of sliding the
> cleat forward so that the ball is behind the spindle, hopefully taking
> some pressure off of the outside of the foot.
>
> Any other suggestions? I'm running out of ideas.
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff

[Peter]

(Jeff Strickland) wrote in message >...
> Hello everyone,
>
> I've already googled for this topic, and while I've found lots of
> articles, I've not found anything specific enough to my problem, so
> here goes...
>
> I'm having foot pain on medium length fast training rides. At about
> 1.5 hours, both feet cramp on the outside from the ball of the foot
> forward to the two outside toes. The pain is excruciating (aren't all
> cramps though?), and I frequently have to stop and get off the bike
> for a few minutes. Interestingly enough, If I happen to get them
> before a big climb, climbing out of the saddle (lots of downward
> pressure?) seems to releive the pain, but soft pedaling is nearly
> unbearable. If I stop for a minute or two and then continue with the
> ride, the pain subsides, and I'm good to go for the remainder of the
> ride. The cramp is always equal in both feet.

> Any other suggestions? I'm running out of ideas.
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff

I rode with a fellow whose feet used to cramp. His problem believe it
or not was that his socks were too tight on the foot compressing the
toes and causing pain on longer rides. He switched to looser fitting
socks and the problem diappeared.