France helmet observation (not a troll)

[Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles]

Looking back over my latest trip to France during the TDF, I just realized a
significant difference between this and years past. The use of helmets
among serious recreational cyclists (not racers) has increased dramatically
between this year and last. Add to this the fact that it seems nobody uses
inexpensive helmets over there (just about everything sitting on someone's
head is in the $100+ range), and you wonder how much of helmet use is
dictated by fashion... the idea here being that, since the Pros now have to
use helmets, it's now trendy to wear one if you're a recreational cyclist.

In the US, I don't think fashion has much to do with why somebody wears a
helmet (although it may have something to do with why some do not?), so
those wearing helmets frequently buy fairly inexpensive models that are
probably 100% as functional as the high-end versions, but perhaps not quite
as well ventilated or trendy in appearance.

Just observations here, not trying to start a pro or anti-helmet thread.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
IMBA, BikesBelong, NBDA member

[Andrew Price]

"Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles" > wrote
in message .com...
>the idea here being that, since the Pros now have to use helmets, it's now
trendy to wear one if you're a recreational cyclist.
>

Mike - I would not underestimate the effect the conduct of the worlds best
at anything has on mere mortals: if the gods do it, who are we to argue?

On a sort of related topic, I wonder has Lance's success increased people
asking for OCLV's? - it can't have done any harm but is there a noticeable
sales relationship?

best, Andrew

[S. Anderson]

"Andrew Price" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Mike - I would not underestimate the effect the conduct of the worlds best
> at anything has on mere mortals: if the gods do it, who are we to argue?
>
> On a sort of related topic, I wonder has Lance's success increased people
> asking for OCLV's? - it can't have done any harm but is there a noticeable
> sales relationship?
>
> best, Andrew
>

I think there is a link to sales and winning races. Auto and motorcycle
companies have seen this for years..win on Sunday, sell on Monday. How many
Monte Carlo SS's has GM sold because of Dale Earnhardt?? They certainly
aren't selling cause they're great cars.

Cheers,

Scott..

[Mike Latondresse]

"Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles" >
wrote in .com:

> Looking back over my latest trip to France during the TDF, I just
> realized a significant difference between this and years past.
> The use of helmets among serious recreational cyclists (not
> racers) has increased dramatically between this year and last.

I have noticed that over a period of years, and yes a giant difference
this year. The first time I went over there I was the only one wearing
one and felt kinda odd. This year I saw a helmetless guy get killed
coming down Mt Ventoux on the Malaucene road when tried to take off his
jacket while riding (cold as hell at the top) and crashed. Would a
helmet have helped who knows (here we will have dozens of people argue
that it wouldn't) but there still were a reasonable number not wearing
them, mostly older guys.

[wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX]

>What's going on in France that's causing kids to avoid cycling?

After doing the Randonee in Paris, the next day the family & I drove over to
Cologne in Germany and spent a week cycling in the area. Cologne is *very*
cycle friendly - there is an *excellent* map produced of all the cycle paths &
routes in the city and surrounding area. Over there almost all cycling is on
cycling paths and it seems as if almost everyone from tiny kids to aged
grandparents cycles - as a normal and accepted method of getting about in daily
life. Also hardly anyone wears a cycle helmet. Husband, son & I stood out
because we do ;-)The plus side is the amount of cycling done by all age groups
- the downside is that because it's mostly all on cycle paths, it's relatively
slow. Even yours truly - fatbirdonabike, found it slow going. Another plus
point - motorists have to give way to pedestrians and cyclists crossing the
roads except where the crossing has traffic light control. Also - cyclists and
pedestrians mix well in the "pedestrianised" areas. Possibly because so many
people use bikes anyhow, it's seen as normal to cycle.

Back to cycling in France. I cycled through Paris and around the big Champs
Elysee roundabout in the Paris rush-hour on the Saturday. Even then I found it
much less hazardous in feeling than cycling in an average UK town. Even in
Paris, a busy capital city, the motorists were noticeably more considerate to
cyclists - leaving plenty of room when passing. A few French people I spoke
with said how bad Paris was for cycling these days - but I had to say it was
much more pleasant than cycling in a typical large UK town/city. Indeed, a
common enough point then was that the French people had heard the same from
several Brits/Americans they had spoken to over that weekend - that cycling in
Paris was a much more pleasantly safe experience than in their resepctive home
towns/ countries.

In both places, France and Germany, it was lovely to experience cycling as a
normal and accepted method of transport that just about everybody seemed to
participate in one way or another.

Cheers, helen s


~~~~~~~~~~
This is sent from a redundant email
Mail sent to it is dumped
My correct one can be gleaned from
h$**$*$el$**e$n$**$d$**$o$*$t**$$s$**$im$mo$ns*@a$ **o$l.c$$*o$*m*$
by getting rid of the overdependence on money and fame
~~~~~~~~~~

[mark]

"wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX" wrote
> After doing the Randonee in Paris, the next day the family & I drove over
to
> Cologne in Germany and spent a week cycling in the area. Cologne is *very*
> cycle friendly - there is an *excellent* map produced of all the cycle
paths &
> routes in the city and surrounding area. Over there almost all cycling is
on
> cycling paths and it seems as if almost everyone from tiny kids to aged
> grandparents cycles - as a normal and accepted method of getting about in
daily
> life. Also hardly anyone wears a cycle helmet. Husband, son & I stood out
> because we do ;-)The plus side is the amount of cycling done by all age
groups
> - the downside is that because it's mostly all on cycle paths, it's
relatively
> slow. Even yours truly - fatbirdonabike, found it slow going. Another plus
> point - motorists have to give way to pedestrians and cyclists crossing
the
> roads except where the crossing has traffic light control. Also - cyclists
and
> pedestrians mix well in the "pedestrianised" areas. Possibly because so
many
> people use bikes anyhow, it's seen as normal to cycle.

When I lived in Germany as a child (Bonn, Munich, 1965-74), Germany seemed
well on it's way to becoming a society dominated by cars, becoming less
cycle friendly as the years went by and the country became more prosperous.
There were still plenty of cyclists,lots of good cycling facilities, public
transport was quite good (and well used), but it was very apparent that cars
were becoming more and more dominant. It's very encouraging to hear that
that trend has started to reverse itself. Maybe a few more countries can do
the same?

--
mark

[Terry Morse]

Mike Latondresse wrote:

> This year I saw a helmetless guy get killed
> coming down Mt Ventoux on the Malaucene road when tried to take off his
> jacket while riding (cold as hell at the top) and crashed.

You were on Ventoux when it was cold? How fortunate. We rode it on
July 16th, when the temperature in the valley got up to 40 C.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/

[Appkiller]

<snip>
>How many
> Monte Carlo SS's has GM sold because of Dale Earnhardt?? They certainly
> aren't selling cause they're great cars.
<snip>

Nor that they have such attractive styling!

App

[Pan Loaf]

O
>On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 19:12:52 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction
>Bicycles" > wrote:
>
>>Looking back over my latest trip to France during the TDF, I just realized a
>>significant difference between this and years past. The use of helmets
>>among serious recreational cyclists (not racers) has increased dramatically
>>between this year and last. Add to this the fact that it seems nobody uses
>>inexpensive helmets over there (just about everything sitting on someone's
>>head is in the $100+ range), and you wonder how much of helmet use is
>>dictated by fashion... the idea here being that, since the Pros now have to
>>use helmets, it's now trendy to wear one if you're a recreational cyclist.
>

I too have just come back from France and would have to agree with
this observation.

Almost all of the racers and racer wannabes that you see are now
wearing helmets, though some of the older blokes are hanging on to
their racing caps.

It also seemed to me that more of the less uniformed recreational
cyclists were wearing helmets than in years past.

The numerous less uniformed cyclists who just use their bikes to get
about the place (are they any less serious?) seem to have stuck with
the traditional choice of a bagette or lit cigarette as essential
accessories.

[Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles]

> I'd disagree about the fashion part: it is probably more a case of
> wanting to get every advantage, no matter how small, and helmets
> do reduce air resistance enough to make a difference in a close
> race (e.g., a time trial.)

So, if Fignon had to do it (the infamous 1989 TDF final time trial) all over
again, he'd choose a non-stylish but aero helmet over his bare head with
decidedly non-aero ponytail flowing behind?

--Mike--
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com

"Bill Z." > wrote in message
...
> Pan Loaf > writes:
>
> > O
> > >On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 19:12:52 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction
> > >Bicycles" > wrote:
> > >
> > >>Looking back over my latest trip to France during the TDF, I just
realized a
> > >>significant difference between this and years past. The use of
helmets
> > >>among serious recreational cyclists (not racers) has increased
dramatically
> > >>between this year and last. Add to this the fact that it seems nobody
uses
> > >>inexpensive helmets over there (just about everything sitting on
someone's
> > >>head is in the $100+ range), and you wonder how much of helmet use is
> > >>dictated by fashion... the idea here being that, since the Pros now
have to
> > >>use helmets, it's now trendy to wear one if you're a recreational
cyclist.
> > >
> >
> > I too have just come back from France and would have to agree with
> > this observation.
>
> I'd disagree about the fashion part: it is probably more a case of
> wanting to get every advantage, no matter how small, and helmets
> do reduce air resistance enough to make a difference in a close
> race (e.g., a time trial.)
>
> I've never raced, but I have done a lot of climbing and climbers
> will often buy the "best" shoes even though the difference is
> negligible except on the very hardest climbs. It is to get
> a psychological boost, not because of fashion. BTW, "best"
> in this case varies from person to person due to a variety
> of factors, so it is not like everyone uses the same type of
> shoes.
>
> Bill
>
>
> --
> My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

[Bill Z.]

"Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles" > writes:

> > I'd disagree about the fashion part: it is probably more a case of
> > wanting to get every advantage, no matter how small, and helmets
> > do reduce air resistance enough to make a difference in a close
> > race (e.g., a time trial.)
>
> So, if Fignon had to do it (the infamous 1989 TDF final time trial) all over
> again, he'd choose a non-stylish but aero helmet over his bare head with
> decidedly non-aero ponytail flowing behind?

I'm quite sure he would, if he had known that we was going to lose the
tour by a few seconds and that a helmet would have made the difference
between winning and losing due to the race being so incredibly close.

Bill

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

[Mitch Haley]

Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles wrote:
> So, if Fignon had to do it (the infamous 1989 TDF final time trial) all over
> again, he'd choose a non-stylish but aero helmet over his bare head with
> decidedly non-aero ponytail flowing behind?

It was my impression that Laurent thought the race was his.
If he had known he was in danger of losing 58 seconds of his 50 second lead,
I think he would have gotten an aero helmet and cut off the ponytail with
a rusty hacksaw if necessary. Do you think it was adding insult to injury
for the press to point out that Laurent must have put more energy to the
back wheel in that TT than Greg did?
Mitch.

[Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles]

> > So, if Fignon had to do it (the infamous 1989 TDF final time trial) all
over
> > again, he'd choose a non-stylish but aero helmet over his bare head with
> > decidedly non-aero ponytail flowing behind?

> It was my impression that Laurent thought the race was his.
> If he had known he was in danger of losing 58 seconds of his 50 second
lead,
> I think he would have gotten an aero helmet and cut off the ponytail with
> a rusty hacksaw if necessary. Do you think it was adding insult to injury
> for the press to point out that Laurent must have put more energy to the
> back wheel in that TT than Greg did?
> Mitch.

Guess I should have put a smiley :>) at the end of my question... I assume
Fignon most certainly would have adopted whatever technology was allowed if
it meant the difference between winning and losing at that stage. *IF* his
pride would have let him believe that.

--Mike--
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com

[Steve McDonald]

E. Roselli =E0 ecrit:

>Another thing you fail to consider is that the law in
>France is about to make helmets for cycling
>obligatory.
----------------------------------------------------------------

This will be an excellent opportunity for you to provide us with an
estimate of how much reduction in the use of bicycles is caused by this
helmet law.
As so many efforts are made to increase alternate and non-polluting
forms of transportation, there are always bureaucrats who wish to impose
controls that thwart it.

When our state enacted an under age 16 mandatory helmet law several
years ago, there was a dropoff of young riders. It's taken a few years
for them to realize that the cops will never bother to enforce it and
now, their riding has increased again and few wear helmets. This has
only served to weaken respect for laws and compliance with them.
Few young riders bother with headlights and the cops ignore this.
Education about safety should be better than laws and reason should
outdo force in the longrun. But do they? Even though life-preserver
laws are heavly enforced off our coast, the majority rarely use them,
despite frequent fatalities for those who don't wear them. This appears
to be Darwinian Selection at work and it operates independently of
regulations and enforcement. It's an ambiguous mess of ineffective laws
that their promoters tout as being solutions, but instead just add to
the problems. I've solved nothing nor given any good suggestions here,
which is par for the course. Reason, education, laws and enforcement
are variously attempted, but people just do what they will, regardless.

Steve McDonald

[James Thomson]

"elisa francesca roselli" > wrote:

> I think you may be wrong about "just everything sitting on
> soemone's head is in the $100+ range" bit. Go into any
> standard bike shop and ask for a helmet - by default, they
> will propose something under $20. Mine only cost 16 Euros,
> and I don't think I've even seen helmets for sale that cost
> much more than that.

You haven't been looking in the right places. Nobody who spends $2000 on a
bike wants to be seen in some lousy $20 helmet.

> Another thing you fail to consider is that the law in France is
> about to make helmets for cycling obligatory. This has been
> announced for months and there has been a massive media
> campaign to encourage voluntary helmet-wearing before it
> becomes mandatory. "Le casque n'est pas obligatoire, c'est
> juste indispensable".

I think you're mistaken. The law has been proposed, as it has been proposed
in the past, but faces strong opposition and is unlikely to be adopted.

The proposal is here:

http://www.assemblee-nat.fr/12/propositions/pion0785.asp

One of the current proponents (J-P Bacquet), when interviewed, justified
the proposal by saying "footballers wear shin guards, boxers wear gum
shields. Cyclists should wear helmets."

> I suppose also that the low price of helmets is perhaps related
> to this campaign - since 100$ would represent hardship for "the
> poor" and the government is, however desultorily, trying to
> encourage cycling, and this is a hugely interventionist state,
> it would not surpise me if there were some sort of price-fixing
> involved.

I doubt it. The astonishing thing is not that a piece of moulded
polystyrene can be sold for under $20, but that the addition of the right
logo can increase the percieved value fivefold.

James Thomson

[Fabrizio Mazzoleni]

elisa francesca roselli wrote in message ...


> since 100$ would represent hardship for "the poor"

Wouldn't hurt to weed out those types.

They never seem to get their act together and
always end up looking terrible on the bike.

[Elisa Francesca Roselli]

James Thomson wrote:

> You haven't been looking in the right places. Nobody who spends $2000 on a
> bike wants to be seen in some lousy $20 helmet.
>

Ah well, I have clearly not developed "the eye" for such things. I suppose the
helmets proposed to me are in keeping with my humble bike. %>

>
> I think you're mistaken. The law has been proposed, as it has been proposed
> in the past, but faces strong opposition and is unlikely to be adopted.
>
> The proposal is here:
>
> http://www.assemblee-nat.fr/12/propositions/pion0785.asp
>

Thanks for the link, I enjoyed reading it and it brought clarification. Why do
you think it is unlikely to be adopted? There seems to be a lot of talk about
it. Yesterday I was in the supermarket with my helmet on (I prefer leaving it
on my head to encumbering my hands with it), and a youth went past me smirking
"Le port du casque n'est pas encore obligatoire dans les rayons".

> I doubt it. The astonishing thing is not that a piece of moulded
> polystyrene can be sold for under $20, but that the addition of the right
> logo can increase the percieved value fivefold.

So the difference between my 16 Euro moulded polystyrene and models costing 5
times as much is a logo? I'm greatly relieved! For a moment there, I was
worried this might reflect its ability to protect my head. %>


Elisa Francesca Roselli
Ile de France

[James Thomson]

"Elisa Francesca Roselli" >
wrote:

> Why do you think it is unlikely to be adopted? There seems
> to be a lot of talk about it.

There's always a lot of talk about it. The law was proposed shortly after
the death of Andrei Kivilev from head injuries after a crash in the Paris
Nice race in March, since which time the wearing of helmets has been made
compulsory in all UCI sanctioned races. As regards utility and non-sporting
cyclists, the number who currently wear a helmet is low enough to make the
law unpopular, and therefore hard to enforce. The enforcement issue has
been one of the main reasons for rejecting such a law in the past.

> So the difference between my 16 Euro moulded polystyrene
> and models costing 5 times as much is a logo? I'm greatly
> relieved! For a moment there, I was worried this might reflect
> its ability to protect my head. %>

Maybe I exaggerated a little. A more expensive helmet may be lighter and
better ventilated. The fastening system may be better designed, the shape
may be sleeker. But Lance Armstrong doesn't wear a Giro helmet for free.
Sponsorship costs money, and somebody has to pay.

James Thomson

[B.C. Cletta]

> One of the current proponents (J-P Bacquet), when interviewed, justified
> the proposal by saying "footballers wear shin guards, boxers wear gum
> shields. Cyclists should wear helmets."

...and maybe so should the footballers: consider the report on
trauma from heading the ball.
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12734073&dopt=Abstract>

[David Kerber]

In article >,
says...
> In article >,
> says...
> > > One of the current proponents (J-P Bacquet), when interviewed, justified
> > > the proposal by saying "footballers wear shin guards, boxers wear gum
> > > shields. Cyclists should wear helmets."
> >
> > ...and maybe so should the footballers: consider the report on
> > trauma from heading the ball.
> > <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12734073&dopt=Abstract>
> >
>
> Ya but then anyone could do a header out of the stadium :)

Most proposals wrt this subject recommend a wide padded headband rather
than a hard helmet. A hard helmet would be dangerous to other players in
a collision, which happens quite often.


--

"Where was the ka-boom? There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering ka-
boom!"
- Marvin The Martian

[risto.varanka@secure.from.spam.helsinki.fi]

James Thomson > wrote:

: Maybe I exaggerated a little. A more expensive helmet may be lighter and
: better ventilated. The fastening system may be better designed, the shape
: may be sleeker. But Lance Armstrong doesn't wear a Giro helmet for free.
: Sponsorship costs money, and somebody has to pay.

My new MET helmet has more ventilation holes than my old MET from
a decade back. The old one is more of a bunker-style commuter
helmet, probably cheaper as well. However, both are very close to
each other in the weight, about 270g each.

More importantly, the new helmet goes better with today's sport
fashion.

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html
varis at no spam please iki fi