Why are bikes such a problem on airlines?

[Janet]

Hi All,

I've read some of the threads about bikes on airlines. I just don't
understand why bicycles are such a problem for the airlines. I've never
tried to fly with my bicycle, but have flown several times with skiis.
For skiers, 1 ski bag + 1 boot bag = 1 piece of luggage. So essentially
a skier has 3 items - ski bag, boot bag, plus a regular suitcase. (Four
items if you also count a carry-on.) So I just don't understand why a
bike doesn't count as 1 piece of luggage????

Can someone explain this, or is the airlines policy so illogical that it
defies explanation?

Janet

[Ken]

Janet > wrote in news:7wU%b.51506$aH3.1578865@bgtnsc04-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
> Can someone explain this, or is the airlines policy so illogical that it
> defies explanation?

They charge you $100 because they can.

[Tim McNamara]

Janet > writes:

> Hi All,
>
> I've read some of the threads about bikes on airlines. I just don't
> understand why bicycles are such a problem for the airlines.

They're big, fragile and the owners are complaintive when the
gorillas damage them. Airlines just don't want to have the hassle
and want you to leave your bike at home.

[Sergio SERVADIO]

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004, Janet wrote:
> Can someone explain this, or is the airlines policy so illogical that it
> defies explanation?

Perhaps illogical, surely not transparent.

First of all Airline Companies no not behave all alike, nor each in a
consistent manner from time to time, or from Airport to Airport.

For example, in Pisa, with British Airways, I found it hard to get to know
for sure if a custom-made case (of 'odd' size, containing a frameset)
would eventually be accepted at the check-in.
Another parcel I had made, of similar dimensions, had been turned back by
Alitalia only because it didn't look right.

Walk up to the Check-in counter and just ask:

'What largest size would you accept?'
'Could it be a wooden box with a handle and a latch so as to make it
adequate for inspection?'

If they ask you 'What on earth would you put inside it?'
never answer:
'Oh, my bike!'.

Better say:
'That's none of your business, safety assured'.

Sergio
Pisa

[Mike Vermeulen]

>Can someone explain this, or is the airlines policy so illogical that it
>defies explanation?

Not completely illogical, but certainly a patchwork that is (1) fairly
inconsistent (2) large price increase in last few years.

An airline is going to charge "what the market will bear". A bike can
be a large bulky item needing special handling. Despite disclaimers
everyone has to sign, a potential exists for an expensive claim.
Airlines will also charge for other special cases such as pets. The
airline market is an ogilopoly and if some carriers establish fees,
others can follow.

There has always been some inconsistency, but five years ago it felt
like the pattern was more like:
-- domestic flights charge ~$50
-- international flights count bike as one piece of luggage
as well as may base things on total weight
-- smaller/regional/economy airlines either don't make
provision for bikes or have unique rules (e.g. free, or
by weight or not allowed or ...)
-- ticket agents had discretion; approximately 1/3 of time
I went they'd look at that $50 fee and find a way to be
sympathetic and not charge the fee. Less true at large
carriers with much traffic.

This has been fairly stable from 15 to 5 years ago.

During the past few years, several of the fees have risen quickly so
that $80-$100 is closer to the price I see. At that rate, the
inconsistent comparisons with other things that fly free (oversize
trade show materials, skis,...) as well as to ticket price for a
passenger becomes more visible. Though an airline is going to price
more based on what the market bears than on such comparison... [in
same way that you and I might have nearly identical seats on the plane
but pay very different amounts for the journey].

I've flown >30 times with a bicycle and have paid more $$ for my
touring bike to United Airlines than I paid to Cannondale...I'm still
paying what market bears here, though have also shifted more to trains
or rental cars in some cases due to increased costs.

--mev, Mike Vermeulen

[TBGibb]

In article >, Janet
> writes:

>I've read some of the threads about bikes on airlines. I just don't
>understand why bicycles are such a problem for the airlines. I've never
>tried to fly with my bicycle, but have flown several times with skiis.
>For skiers, 1 ski bag + 1 boot bag = 1 piece of luggage. So essentially
>a skier has 3 items - ski bag, boot bag, plus a regular suitcase. (Four
>items if you also count a carry-on.) So I just don't understand why a
>bike doesn't count as 1 piece of luggage????
>
>Can someone explain this, or is the airlines policy so illogical that it
>defies explanation?

Sometimes a bicycle is just one piece of luggage. Other times it isn't.
Reasons: they can be awkward, they can be heavy, and the airlines would love a
little more money. I doubt it costs the airline $75 to put one on an airplane.


Tom Gibb >

[Sergio SERVADIO]

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004, Chuck Anderson wrote:
> >Better say:
> >'That's none of your business, safety assured'.
> Not in this day and age. That answer would get you bumped off your
> flight as a possible terrorist.
> I can't imagine that answer as ever having been acceptable.

What's wrong with assuring that it is a safe parcel, and possibly letting
them inspect it, at request?

I do remember carrying a spare (new) gasoline tank for my decrepit FIAT
1100 on an International flight from Roma to JFK in 1971.
At that time hijacking was not so infrequent.
No problem to board the craft, to the bewilderment of my fellow
passengers.

Sergio
Pisa

[Chuck Anderson]

Sergio SERVADIO wrote:

>On Sat, 28 Feb 2004, Janet wrote:
>> Can someone explain this, or is the airlines policy so illogical that it
>> defies explanation?
>
>Perhaps illogical, surely not transparent.
>
>First of all Airline Companies no not behave all alike, nor each in a
>consistent manner from time to time, or from Airport to Airport.
>
>For example, in Pisa, with British Airways, I found it hard to get to know
>for sure if a custom-made case (of 'odd' size, containing a frameset)
>would eventually be accepted at the check-in.
>Another parcel I had made, of similar dimensions, had been turned back by
>Alitalia only because it didn't look right.
>
>Walk up to the Check-in counter and just ask:
>
>'What largest size would you accept?'
>'Could it be a wooden box with a handle and a latch so as to make it
>adequate for inspection?'
>
>If they ask you 'What on earth would you put inside it?'
>never answer:
>'Oh, my bike!'.
>
>Better say:
>'That's none of your business, safety assured'.
>
>
Not in this day and age. That answer would get you bumped off your
flight as a possible terrorist.
I can't imagine that answer as ever having been acceptable.

[Chuck Anderson]

Sergio SERVADIO wrote:

>On Sat, 28 Feb 2004, Chuck Anderson wrote:
>> >Better say:
>> >'That's none of your business, safety assured'.
>> Not in this day and age. That answer would get you bumped off your
>> flight as a possible terrorist.
>> I can't imagine that answer as ever having been acceptable.
>
>What's wrong with assuring that it is a safe parcel, and possibly letting
>them inspect it, at request?
>
>
Saying, "That's none of your business. It is a safe parcel." is hardly
*reassuring* to a baggage inspector, .... wouldn't you think?

>I do remember carrying a spare (new) gasoline tank for my decrepit FIAT
>1100 on an International flight from Roma to JFK in 1971.
>At that time hijacking was not so infrequent.
>No problem to board the craft, to the bewilderment of my fellow
>passengers.
>
>
>Sergio
>Pisa
>
>
>


--
*****************************
Chuck Anderson • Boulder, CO
http://www.CycleTourist.com
Integrity is obvious.
The lack of it is common.
*****************************

[Tim McNamara]

(TBGibb) writes:

> Sometimes a bicycle is just one piece of luggage. Other times it
> isn't. Reasons: they can be awkward, they can be heavy, and the
> airlines would love a little more money. I doubt it costs the
> airline $75 to put one on an airplane.

No, it doesn't. The charge is punitive and meant to discourage you
from bringing your bicycle on their plane.

[Tim McNamara]

Chuck Anderson > writes:

> Sergio SERVADIO wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 28 Feb 2004, Chuck Anderson wrote:
>
>>> >Better say: 'That's none of your business, safety assured'.
>
>>> Not in this day and age. That answer would get you bumped off
>>> your flight as a possible terrorist. I can't imagine that answer
>>> as ever having been acceptable.
>>
>>What's wrong with assuring that it is a safe parcel, and possibly
>>letting them inspect it, at request?
>>
> Saying, "That's none of your business. It is a safe parcel." is
> hardly *reassuring* to a baggage inspector, .... wouldn't you think?

In a similar vein, a brain-injured client of mine once, for reasons
known only to himself, sent several pounds of newspaper clippings to
a Federal judge in Missouri. This was shortly after the McVeigh
bombing. In his child-like scrawl on the front of the thick manilla
envelope, he wrote a statement claiming "it's not a bomb." The mail
department at the courthouse was *not* amused. Neither was the FBI.

[Matt O'Toole]

Ken wrote:

> Janet > wrote in
> news:7wU%b.51506$aH3.1578865@bgtnsc04- news.ops.worldnet.att.net:

>> Can someone explain this, or is the airlines policy so illogical
>> that it defies explanation?
>
> They charge you $100 because they can.

Yup, I think that's the bottom line.

Matt O.

[Per Löwdin]

> I've read some of the threads about bikes on airlines. I just don't
> understand why bicycles are such a problem for the airlines.

Usually they are not. We always box our bikes in the type of box the bike
shops use and have so far flown back and forth to India, Thailand,
Singapore, Geneva, twice to Mallorca once to Teneriffe and to Denver. Has
always worked out fine.

Per
http://lowdin.nu

[Per Löwdin]

> No, it doesn't. The charge is punitive and meant to discourage you
> from bringing your bicycle on their plane.

Depends on how much other weight you got. We have never paid on
transatlantic flights as the bikes have gone as our second pieces of
luggage. The most we paid has been with SAS which charged as 100 USD,
Stockholm - Delhi, http://www.lowdin.nu/MTB/MTB-Himalaya.html considering
what the over-weight charges would have been we thought it was perfectly
reasonable.

Per
http://lowdin.nu

[Jacques Moser]

>
> Usually they are not. We always box our bikes in the type of box the bike
> shops use and have so far flown back and forth to India, Thailand,
> Singapore, Geneva, twice to Mallorca once to Teneriffe and to Denver. Has
> always worked out fine.
>

Yeah, that's what many people say they do. But what do you do with the box
when you get there ?

[Per Löwdin]

> Yeah, that's what many people say they do. But what do you do with the box
> when you get there ?

Depends, last year, when we flew from Stockholm to Denver we left the boxes
there with some friends, we had all our stuff in boxes as we had two BOBs
too. Then, we used the same boxes on our return trip. When we went to India
we did the same. Bike boxes are not easily avaiable there. Same for Mallorca
and the Canary Islands. Well boxes are probably available but one uses the
same box going in and out.

On the other hand when we have flown to SEA we have just left the boxes in
the hotels we spent the first night. Then, we got new boxes in Bangkok. When
we landed in Geneva we unpacked right next to the conveyour belt or whatever
it is called where you pick up the luggage, put on the pedals, mounted the
steering bar and the panniers, dumped the boxes in a place for trash, and
then we cycled through customs and migration.

Boxes are safe, you can protect the bike quite well, and they tend to be
available almost anywhere, takes five or ten minutes to get the bike
unpacked and ready to go. Some send their bikes as they are, perhaps with
just some cardboard wrapped around, seems to work too, but our bikes are
just to good for us to let them be handled like that, we also have a
fascistoid tendency (our only!) about wheels. I just can?t tolerate wheels
that are untrue.

Per
http://lowdin.nu

[Lyle]

The bike charges or 'freight fees' are simply excessive and at times
extortionary. My limited experience is similar to Mikes. For a flight
from STL to LA, American Airlines charge me 80-100 dollars per bike,
per leg of trip, for transporting my bike. Even though I purposedly
flew on a Tuesday morning at 6am, to avoid a crowded situation. I
arrived at the gate 2 hours aherad of time. I was nice and patient
with the airline employee. The flight was empty. It was an MD80 that
had 30 people on it. Yet the American Airline employee informed me
that American charges freight fees on bulky items--160 dollars for 2
bikes--CHA CHING. THIS IS A COMPLETE RIP-OFF!!
Ive flown small carriers, ie Frontier, and they have waived these
charges.
Airlines such as American are not bike friendly, nor passenger
friendly.

My questions are:

International flighjts the bike rides free--why? Because competition
makes it necessary??

Why is it that other countries bikes ride free, especially in SE Asia?

Why is it when planes are empty, meaning 30% capacity, do they still
charge fees?

Why is a handling fee of 80 dollars charged?


My solution is hammer the airlines with customer service emails and
letters voicing your displeasure. Second start flying airlines that
charge zero for bikes--there out there but we need to hear others
experiences, so we now who they are. Third send a letter to your
congressman demanding more competition and better services from
airlines, especially for domestic flights. I would love to see China
airlines running some domestic flights in the US.

I would like to know if there is somewhere out there, in webland, that
lists bike-friendly airlines, and non-friendly ones. We need a site
like this.

Lyle





Mike Vermeulen > wrote in message >...[i]
> >Can someone explain this, or is the airlines policy so illogical that it
> >defies explanation?
>
> Not completely illogical, but certainly a patchwork that is (1) fairly
> inconsistent (2) large price increase in last few years.
>
> An airline is going to charge "what the market will bear". A bike can
> be a large bulky item needing special handling. Despite disclaimers
> everyone has to sign, a potential exists for an expensive claim.
> Airlines will also charge for other special cases such as pets. The
> airline market is an ogilopoly and if some carriers establish fees,
> others can follow.
>
> There has always been some inconsistency, but five years ago it felt
> like the pattern was more like:
> -- domestic flights charge ~$50
> -- international flights count bike as one piece of luggage
> as well as may base things on total weight
> -- smaller/regional/economy airlines either don't make
> provision for bikes or have unique rules (e.g. free, or
> by weight or not allowed or ...)
> -- ticket agents had discretion; approximately 1/3 of time
> I went they'd look at that $50 fee and find a way to be
> sympathetic and not charge the fee. Less true at large
> carriers with much traffic.
>
> This has been fairly stable from 15 to 5 years ago.
>
> During the past few years, several of the fees have risen quickly so
> that $80-$100 is closer to the price I see. At that rate, the
> inconsistent comparisons with other things that fly free (oversize
> trade show materials, skis,...) as well as to ticket price for a
> passenger becomes more visible. Though an airline is going to price
> more based on what the market bears than on such comparison... .
>
> I've flown >30 times with a bicycle and have paid more $$ for my
> touring bike to United Airlines than I paid to Cannondale...I'm still
> paying what market bears here, though have also shifted more to trains
> or rental cars in some cases due to increased costs.
>
> --mev, Mike Vermeulen

[Lanny R. Levenson]

I'm used to the bike charges on flights within the US. On transatlantic
flights, the carriers don't charge specifically for the bikes. I guess if
you're under the bag limit or weight limit you're OK? What happens if
you're flying to Europe with a bike but are flying to the departure point?
Will you be charged for the US flight if you're on the same carrier
overseas?

lanny
"Ken" > wrote in message
...
> Janet > wrote in
news:7wU%b.51506$aH3.1578865@bgtnsc04-
> news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
> > Can someone explain this, or is the airlines policy so illogical that it
> > defies explanation?
>
> They charge you $100 because they can.

[Mike Vermeulen]

> What happens if you're flying to Europe with a bike but are flying to
> the departure point? Will you be charged for the US flight if you're
> on the same carrier overseas?

I have had the bicycle flown for free in that situation. However, it
has taken a conversation with the gate agent, along lines of "Isn't
this an international flight?" Also, on return may need to pick up
the bike, carry through customs and redeliver to US domestic transfer.

I generally try to be polite (e.g. not impatient, demanding, allowing
lots of time), but also politely asking or even being surprised at the
large fees. That has helped me in a number of situations where I've
been given some leeway).

--mev, Mike Vermeulen