What do you think are the 'Classic Routes' for bike touring?

[gianni]

Hello riders www.cylingtheworld.org the new website dedicated
exclusively to bike tourists would like to hear what you consider to
be 'Classic Routes' for cyclist around the world in order to compile a
comprehensive selection in its tours section by including your
suggestions. What should be included in your opinion? Any links to
relevant routes will also be appreciated.
Thanks

[Ron Wallenfang]

1. The Mosel from Koblenz to Trier, Germany
2. The Danube upstream from Vienna, especially from Krems to Melk
3. The St. Lawrence from Montreal to Quebec and beyond, on Route 138.
4. The Lake Michigan shore from Menominee to St. Ignace, MI, on US 2



"gianni" > wrote in message
om...
> Hello riders www.cylingtheworld.org the new website dedicated
> exclusively to bike tourists would like to hear what you consider to
> be 'Classic Routes' for cyclist around the world in order to compile a
> comprehensive selection in its tours section by including your
> suggestions. What should be included in your opinion? Any links to
> relevant routes will also be appreciated.
> Thanks

[Mike Vermeulen]

= In Australia, crossing the Nullarbor by bicycle.
= In North Amercia, crossing the continent (many different routes in
US/Canada)

--mev, Mike Vermeulen
>1. The Mosel from Koblenz to Trier, Germany
>2. The Danube upstream from Vienna, especially from Krems to Melk
>3. The St. Lawrence from Montreal to Quebec and beyond, on Route 138.
>4. The Lake Michigan shore from Menominee to St. Ignace, MI, on US 2
>
>
>
>"gianni" > wrote in message
om...
>> Hello riders www.cylingtheworld.org the new website dedicated
>> exclusively to bike tourists would like to hear what you consider to
>> be 'Classic Routes' for cyclist around the world in order to compile a
>> comprehensive selection in its tours section by including your
>> suggestions. What should be included in your opinion? Any links to
>> relevant routes will also be appreciated.
>> Thanks
>

[Per Löwdin]

> What should be included in your opinion?

The Manali - Leh road in India, is clearly one of them. It goes almost 500
km (300 miles) on altitudes above 3000 m, crossing five high passes, two
higher than 5000 m. A splendid ride. Rarely had so much fun. There is a trip
report on http://www.lowdin.nu/MTB/MTB-Himalaya.html.

> Any links to relevant routes will also be appreciated.

There is a page with links to other cyclists reports on the url above. Quite
a few do the Manali - Leh ride, not so it gets crowded but many enough to
create a sense of that there is a cycling community present, one keeps track
of one another, meet again, etc. There are also quite a few supported group
rides.

Per
http://lowdin.nu

[Gearóid Ó Laoi/Garry Lee]

"Mike Vermeulen" > wrote in message
...
> = In Australia, crossing the Nullarbor by bicycle.
> = In North Amercia, crossing the continent (many different routes in
> US/Canada)
>
> --mev, Mike Vermeulen
> >1. The Mosel from Koblenz to Trier, Germany
I've done that. Not bad.

My list which of the best I've done.

1. Barcelona - Santiago in Spain.
2. Madrid, Chinchon, Aranjuez, Toledo, Talavera, Gredos, Avila, Segovia,
Madrid.
3. West Coast of Scotland.
4. West Cork/Kerry in Ireland.
5. Clare Connemara, Ireland.
6. Donegal, Ireland.
7. Malaga - Seville - Malaga.
8. Devon and Cornwall, England ( Very hard)
9. Anywhere in Alps and Pyrenees,.
10. Anywhere in Corsica.
11. Peloponnisos, Greece.
12. Paris - Nice.
13. Strasbourg - Nice.
14. La Rochelle Carcassonne.
15. Romantische Strasse and Bavaria, Germany,.
16. Dolomites, Italy.
17. Catalunya.
18. Sardinia. (food not great).

[Ken Roberts]

Looks like you've had lots of fun touring, seeing how long is your list,
Gary.
> 7. Malaga - Seville - Malaga.
Sharon and I rode there (in November) after Gary kept promoting Spain, and
Yes the area southeast of Seville was great (though we didn't try Malaga
itself).

We enjoyed the Dordogne - Lot - Perigord - Quercy region of France, and so
have lots of other people. For a "route", how about the one in Cycling
France by Sally Dillon et al (Lonely Planet). And I'd also agree with
picking almost any nice town in the French Alps and start exploring.

> 5. Clare Connemara, Ireland.
> 6. Donegal, Ireland.

If these are on a list of "classics", then the Hudson river valley of New
York belongs on it too. Because other than a few seaside views, the good
routes in the Hudson valley are superior in every other way: variety,
house-architecture, farm-architecture, food, road quality, color, variety.

Going village-to-village, bakery-deli to deli-bakery thru the farms of
Columbia county and northern Dutchess is great, and a loop thru there would
be a classic of its own, definitely superior to Vermont, as some bicycle
tour organizers are now discovering (http://bikenewyork.org/HVRR.htm and
http://bikeescapades.com/hudson)

But here's a one-way "classic" route which is supported by major train and
bus lines:

New York City to Glens Falls - (? and on to Montreal ?)

by way of: Seven Lakes Drive, Storm King Mountain Highway, New Paltz,
Woodstock, Rhinebeck, Kinderhook, Rensselaer, then secondary roads mostly
alongside the Hudson river up to Glens Falls. And for a great "prologue",
spend a day riding
around New York City itself.

details below.

Ken
__________________________________________
Details of route
Different local riders have their own favorite roads for visiting and
connecting the great places -- mine are on Bike Hudson Valley
(http://roberts-1.com/bikehudson/r/map), and that website has links to other
people's routes.

- - prologue: New York Harbor Circle (NYH on map)
- - NYC to Bear Mt (BMA on map, sections A + B) (variations might be the
"river road" under the GWB to Nyack, or a visit to the delightful paved
off-road Saddle River trail in Bergen county NJ)
- - Bear Mt / Newburgh-Beacon loop (BNB, second half = west side)
- - Newburgh - Beacon / Mid-Hudson loop (NBM, reverse first half = west
side), but there's probably some better way to get to New Paltz (and those
who don't like hills should skip the ridge-top orchard views).
- - New Paltz to Ashokan Reservoir (NPA) to Woodstock around Ashokan
Reservoir (WoA), then some secondary roads to the Kingston - Rhinecliff
bridge. (shorter is to take NPK)
- - Rhinebeck to Tivoli (RhT) to TG to LoF -- though reversing the second
halves of those routes might be more fun.
- - Rip Van Winkle / Albany loop (east side) (go to River Routes map, RVD)
- - Albany-Rensselaer to Glens Falls: see reports on
http://roberts-1.com/bikehudson/v/north_hv/river/reports
and the Mohawk Hudson Cycling Club website.

- - Glens Falls to Montreal? someone else will have to contribute that.

Trying to keep the route simple by just taking major roads is not going to
provide a "classic" route thru the Hudson valley -- unless you like seeing
lots of strip malls and truck traffic. The official New York state "Bicycle
Route 9" is generally good, but by trying to keep the total mileage and
hills lower, it misses some of the really great riding in the Hudson valley.

Ken

[Eric]

I would list the following among true "Classic Routes" (though not
necessarily my absolute favorites rides):

Big Sur (central California coastal road)
West coast of South Island, New Zealand
Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Australia
Puerto Montt, Chile to Bariloche, Argentina
Carretera Austral, southern Chile
Icefields Parkway, Alberta, Canada
Going-to-the-Sun Highway, Glacier National Park, Montana, USA
Trail Ridge Road, Rocky Mountain National Park, Colorado, USA
Loire Valley, France
bike path through the dunes in coastal Netherlands
Chott Jarid, Tunisia


My favorite routes, OTOH, include:

Dordogne/Lot/Cele valleys in southwest France
Grosse Scheidegg pass, Switzerland (1 day ride)
Going-to-the-Sun Road (see above) Montana, USA (1 day ride)
almost anywhere in Corsica
Puerto Montt, Chile to Bariloche, Argentine (see above)
road to Hana & beyond, Maui, Hawaii, USA
north coast of Kauai, and Waimea Canyon, Kauai, Hawaii, USA
Golden Triangle region, northern Thailand
Tasmania, Australia

[logarto]

(Eric) wrote in message >...
> I would list the following among true "Classic Routes" (though not
> necessarily my absolute favorites rides):
>
> Big Sur (central California coastal road)
> Icefields Parkway, Alberta, Canada
> Going-to-the-Sun Highway, Glacier National Park, Montana, USA
> Trail Ridge Road, Rocky Mountain National Park, Colorado, USA
> Loire Valley, France
>

I'll see those five (BTDT) and raise you

Coast of Michoacan, Mexico (Tecoman to Playa Azul, imagine the Big Sur
in Hawaii! The only place on earth that I ever went back to on a
Touring Bike.)

Durango-Mazatlan, Mexico (Close to impossible in the opposite
direction.)

Baja Peninsula, Mexico (Todos Santos side arrival in Cabo, the other
side is illegal for bikes these last five years.)

Oregon Coast

Mendocino Coast

Skyline Drive-Blue Ridge Parkway in the Fall.

Anywhere between Tacoma, Washington and Prince Rupert, BC (Islands or
Mainland, ferry boat rides inclusive.)

Anywhere in the Balearic Islands

Anywhere in Nova Scotia (but especially the Cabot Trail.)

Anywhere in the wine country of France with the paved cart paths for
grape extraction that can run for fifteen miles.



In the category of "too hairy back then and probably too hairy to be
recommending now as well" I would submit the Cantabrian Coast of
Spain, coast of Guerrero and Oaxaca States, Mexico, and Northern
Guatemala. (In order of ascending hariness during the politically
conflicted eras during which I rode a bike through them. The upside
was that I had major highways completely to myself for days at a time
due to dynamited bridges, bombs planted along the road, and buses
crashed and blocking the highway.)

In the category of "really wish I HAD done it back then" I would
submit the entire coastline of what was formally known as Yugoslavia,
(which was, believe it or not a very common destination for yuppie
cyclotourists in the 1980s and that was pretty much why I kept putting
it off,) and the Gaspe Peninsula of Quebec (because it was still a
19th century theocracy with awesome paved roads up there thirty and
forty years ago when I was there in a car and in a world where there
is now fast Internet access in the middle of nowhere in Costa Rica I
just can't imagine such a thing being possible any longer,) and the
Valle Nacional, Mexico.

As for Costa Rica, well the Paso De Los Muertos will be made into a
backwater by a major coastal highway in the next decade and thus be
vastly improved as an epic ride for all but those with an insane
objective of saying that they rode down the Pan American Highway
(which I did in Chiapas when that was a place that people escaped TO
from Guatemala.)

So the moral of the story is that if you wait fifteen or twenty years
to go somewhere described in this thread it may not be there for you
to go to when you finally get around to it. I very much doubt than
anyone has ridden a bicycle from San Cristobal de Las Casas to
Palenque via Occocingo and Agua Azules in the last dozen years, but
twenty years after I did I can still remember just about every foot of
it.

[Ken Roberts]

I agree that the networks of little "tertiary" paved roads in agricultural
areas of France are pretty amazing.

logarto wrote
> Anywhere in the wine country of France
> with the paved cart paths for grape
> extraction that can run for fifteen miles.

> Anywhere between Tacoma, Washington and
> Prince Rupert, BC (Islands or Mainland,
> ferry boat rides inclusive.)

I think you've gotten the boat rides merged with the bicycling in your
memories. Or maybe you toured there a long long time ago when the roads in
the San Juan islands were different.

Except for a few nice miles on Lopez island, Sharon and I were unimpressed
with the actual bicycling in the San Juan islands. We could see how it
compared favorably against the mainland roads around Seattle and Everett and
lots of places in the USA -- but we could easily think of ten routes in the
Hudson valley of NY that were better than most of the San Juans. And the
best of Europe that I've seen so far is like two tiers above.

Ken

[Per Löwdin]

Interesting thread.

> > Trail Ridge Road, Rocky Mountain National Park, Colorado, USA

Yes, lots of altitude, and change of ecology, splendid ride.
http://www.lowdin.nu/MTB/Colorado/Rmnp1.jpg

The Million Dollar high way is another Colorado ride that deserves to be
listed as classic http://www.lowdin.nu/MTB/Colorado/Molasspass1.JPG and that
can be said of the Independence Pass (between Aspen and Leadville) too
http://www.lowdin.nu/MTB/Colorado/Independence5.JPG

> Anywhere in the Balearic Islands

That has to be qualified. Classic routes, routes one should do once in a
life time, on Mallorca is a complete traverse of the Tramuntana mountains
from Andratx to Porto Pollenca, and of course the Sa Calobra climb.
http://www.lowdin.nu/MTB/mallorca04/Cycling_on_Mallorca,_June_2004.html

Where is Jobst Brandt? He can list the classic routes in the Alps better
than anyone. A few that has to be included:

Passo Stelvio,
Col Du Galiber,
Route Napoleon,
Passo Sella (preferably, to be classic, on should do a complete circuit of
the Sella Massif),
Furka Pass (watershed between the Rhone and Rhein).


Per
http://lowdin.nu

[Sergio SERVADIO]

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004, Per L=F6wdin wrote:
> Interesting thread.
>=20
> That has to be qualified. Classic routes, routes one should do once in a
> life time ...

> Where is Jobst Brandt? He can list the classic routes in the Alps better
> than anyone.=20

Jobst knows only those routes he does once every summer.
=20
Sergio
Pisa

[David Dermott]

Here's a few of my classics:

1 Cabot Trail, Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia. I favor the
counter-clockwise direction.

2 Icefield Parkway, Jasper to Lake Louise, Alberta Rocky Mountains.
extend the route from Lake Louise to Radium BC

3 Jotunheimen in Norway. There is an annual organized randoneur or
motionslopp-type ride ( http://www.jotunheimenrundt.com/ ) in these
mountains, but here is a suggested pass-bagging route:
Aurland-Hornshytta (1330m)- Laerdal, ferry to Sogndal (Kaupanger), ferry
to Urnes, Skjolden-Sognefjell (1450m)-Lom, RV-51 to Valdresflya (1390m)
to Fagerness (take a "rest" day and walk over Besseggen!) Maybe you can
add Rallarvegen or the Bygdin to Vinstra bicycle route to this.

--

David Dermott , Wolfville Ridge, Nova Scotia, Canada
email:
WWW pages: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/dermott/

[amh]

(gianni) wrote in message >...
> Hello riders www.cylingtheworld.org the new website dedicated
> exclusively to bike tourists would like to hear what you consider to
> be 'Classic Routes' for cyclist around the world in order to compile a
> comprehensive selection in its tours section by including your
> suggestions. What should be included in your opinion? Any links to
> relevant routes will also be appreciated.
> Thanks

Banff to Jasper on the Icefields Parkway, Alberta, Canada.
The Blue Ridge Parkway and Skyline Drive in the Eastern US.


Andy

[logarto]

"Per Löwdin" > wrote in message >...

>
> > Anywhere in the Balearic Islands
>
> That has to be qualified.

I have to confess at this point that I only saw Majorca and once
outside of the city I didn't see a single road that wasn't magnificent
and quite sparsely traveled. Since there was a boat from Ibiza that
got you way down south on Spain's Mediterannean coastline I would
certainly take it if I was going to or coming from Grenada. I think
that I came to appreciate the more mundane placea I rode through as
much as anyone but I'll take thirteen hours in a boat to three days
riding through an unimpressive area in oppressive heat, especially in
mid-summer. (As long as the boat doesn't have a casino on it, I
returned from Nova Scotia penniless.)

I can certainly understand the sentiment of restricting this
discussion to epic point to point rides but that's not just how
islands work in my experience (except for Cape Breton and you don't
need a boat to get there.) And some of my favorite recollections come
from taking boats on and off of islands. So when I talk about the
amorphous destinations like the Balearics or the cart paths in France
what I'm really saying is that I had been touring four months a year
for five years at that point, passing through a lot of these choice
destinations and I was still blown away when I got there.

As for Puget Sound etc., I never set foot on any of the San Juans,
just rode halfway up Vancouver Island, went back and forth to
Vancouver City on different boats and then left the region via Powell
River-Sawitch-Whistler-Lilouet which is absolutely one of the classic
rides if you can accept that a lot of the most striking scenery will
come while you are standing on the deck of a ship. This is pretty much
where the contiguous pavement ends on the North American Pacific
Coastline with glaciers coming down close to sea level. The cool part
was that once you learned to let all the motor traffic off the boat
ahead of you, you usually had the road to yourself for the next three
hours.

I was fortunate enough to ride almost all of the Sea of Cortez ferries
when they were incredibly cheap and subsidized and while I never rode
it I saw it coming into port from the top of the mountain and the
ferry that comes into Digby, Nova Scotia makes a very striking
landfall.

In retrospect I might want to strike Durango-Mazatlan although I would
certainly recommend it to anyone needing to get from Texas/New Mexico
to the Baja. There's really only about thirty miles in it that are
unbelievable with a serious knife edge section that you just don't see
the likes of on Trail Ridge followed by a spectacular screaming
descent from 8000 feet to sea level and I was perhaps overemphasizing
the fact that it's the only road through that Mountain Range for 800
miles north and south.

And I have no doubt whatsoever that a previous poster's several
Patagonian listings are worthy as is the Avenue of the Volcanoes in
Ecuador. But the coast of Michoacan ranks up there with anything
anywhere, it sees very little commercial traffic and the best thing
that happened to me was getting there the year after the road was
completed.

[Tim McNamara]

Sergio SERVADIO > writes:

> On Tue, 29 Jun 2004, Per Löwdin wrote:
>> Interesting thread.
>>
>> That has to be qualified. Classic routes, routes one should do once
>> in a life time ...
>
>> Where is Jobst Brandt? He can list the classic routes in the Alps
>> better than anyone.
>
> Jobst knows only those routes he does once every summer.

Which in 40+ years has probably been just about all of them, including
a lot of non-road rides over the remains of Roman military roads,
roads that have been replaced by more modern routes, etc.

I'd vote for the "Route des Grades Alpes" as a classic must-do ride;
there are also the classic brevet routes in the Alps and the Pyrenees,
hard rides over many of the most important and scenic mountains. I
don't know if the Diagonales qualify as "classic, must-do routes,"
though.

[[email protected]]

Per Lowdin writes:

> Where is Jobst Brandt? He can list the classic routes in the Alps
> better than anyone. A few that has to be included:

> Passo Stelvio,
> Col Du Galibier,
> Route Napoleon,
> Passo Sella (preferably, to be classic, one should do a complete
> circuit of the Sella Massif), Pordoi, Sella, Gardena, and Compolongo.
> Furka Pass (watershed between the Rhone and Rhein).

http://tinyurl.com/adls

There are a few stories at this site about these roads. I'll be there
in July.

Jobst Brandt

[Bruce Frech]

Kathmandu to Leh to Manali to Kathmandu for a loop. But until Kashmir
settles down you can do a loop west of there, say Manali to Leh and then
back via one of the other roads.

[Sergio SERVADIO]

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 wrote:
> There are a few stories at this site about these roads. I'll be there
> in July.

How about a rendez-vous, Jobst?

Sergio
Pisa

[Per Löwdin]

> Kathmandu to Leh to Manali to Kathmandu for a loop.

Adventurous, sure, but hardly a classic route, as far as I know it is not
biked at all due to a couple of snags: i) the border between Tibet and
Ladakh has been closed since the Sino-Indian war 1962, ii) western Tibet has
been off limits for foreigners even after 1985. A few have come through from
Xing Kiang, but those who have done it have had various problems due to the
Chinese occupation of Tibet. Fines, forced to turn back at some points, etc.
So, it can hardly be regarded as a classic route. A route has to be cycled
by quite a few people to make it classic. Without the politics of the area,
if the road and the border were open, Kathmandu - Leh would certainly soon
become a classic.

Two other routes that (however) would classify are the Karakoram Highway and
the Lhasa Kathmandu road.

There is plenty of interesting and useful info on riding in Tibet on Janne
Corax site http://www3.utsidan.se/corax-e/index.htm

> But until Kashmir
> settles down you can do a loop west of there, say Manali to Leh and then
> back via one of the other roads.

Presently, there are only two roads from the Gangetic Plains, via Manali and
via Srinagar. The Manali - Leh road is often biked. In the past there were
quite a few cyclists on the Srinagar - Leh road, we saw quite a few when we
were trekking in Zanskar and Ladakh in the eighties, but since 1989 it has
not been regarded as safe due to the insurgency in the Kashmir valley. It
may be safe again now. That kind of varies from day to day. In any case
there is a lot more traffic on that road, as most trucks to the area go that
way. Not too much fun to meet 150 trucks.

Per
http://lowdin.nu

[Eric]

> And I have no doubt whatsoever that a previous poster's several
> Patagonian listings are worthy as is the Avenue of the Volcanoes in
> Ecuador. But the coast of Michoacan ranks up there with anything
> anywhere, it sees very little commercial traffic and the best thing
> that happened to me was getting there the year after the road was
> completed.

What year did you ride the Michoacan coast? I have the impression
that the traffic level is quite high these days.
In 2002 I biked in the interior of Michoacan, and it ranks pretty
high up there for combining impressive mountain scenery, lovely
colonial towns, and an amazing "new" (1943) volcano that arose out of
a corn field. The route included Morelia, Patzcuaro, Uruapan, &
Paricutin.

[[email protected]]

Sergio Servadio writes:

>> There are a few stories at this site about these roads. I'll be
>> there in July.

> How about a rendezvous, Jobst?

On an open ended bike ride I can't say where we will be when but I
might reach Robilante on about 9 July if everything works. Last year
I got there a day later but said hello at the Aquila Reale before
heading to the Col de Tende and Brauis to Sospel. That's about as
close as I will get to Pisa before heading north. I could give you a
call from Ivrea.

Keep that tower from falling.

Jobst Brandt

[Sergio SERVADIO]

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 wrote:
> On an open ended bike ride I can't say where we will be when but I
> might reach Robilante on about 9 July if everything works. Last year
> I got there a day later but said hello at the Aquila Reale before
> heading to the Col de Tende and Brauis to Sospel. That's about as
> close as I will get to Pisa before heading north. I could give you a
> call from Ivrea.
> Keep that tower from falling.

Not much of an effort: it's behaving well all by itself.

Do try to give me a call.
However, there is some chance I'll be at Bonneval sur Arc at the end
of next week.

Sergio
Pisa