Re: Right approach to dangerous driver behavior?

[Stergios Papadakis]

Dan Cosley wrote:
>
> I've been having a larger-than-usual number of unpleasant-to-
> potentially-dangerous encounters with motorists recently. This
> involves verbal stuff, which usually I can shrug off. However,
> it also sometimes involves being cut off or squeezed off the
> road, and this I find harder to just let go. I'm trying to
> train myself to get license/vehicle numbers rather than just
> be scared, but:
>
> 1) Is it worth getting license numbers of cars? Trucks?
> 2) What else (if anything) do you do about bad driver behavior?
>
> -- Dan
>

Today, I started carrying a little notebook in
my jersey pocket on my commute. It is a "wet notes"
book, which is a coated paper that is waterproof.
You can get it at marine stores. I started carrying
it because the same car leaned on the horn and gave me
the finger for the fourth time (six-lane road, light
traffic, I was in the right half of the right lane).
I will now have a dated log of such occurences. If it
ever does get serious, which I doubt, the log will
be important.

Today, I wrote down the first license plate number, a
description of the car, and the driver's actions.
I've decided not to just shrug things off anymore,
if I can tell people what they did wrong, and why
it is wrong, I will. If you address them by their
license plate number, it has a surprising calming
effect. I bet that if you obviously write it down
as well, it will be even more effective.
Unfortunately, this state doesn't require
front license plates, so I can't always do it.

As far as having the larger-than-usual number
of encounters lately, I find that I feel that way
at times, and it is probably just the statistics
of small numbers. The events are rare anyway, only
a few times a year usually, so if I get a few in
a month I notice. It is probably just chance.

Stergios

[Robin Hubert]

"Dan Cosley" > wrote in message
...
> I've been having a larger-than-usual number of unpleasant-to-
> potentially-dangerous encounters with motorists recently. This
> involves verbal stuff, which usually I can shrug off. However,
> it also sometimes involves being cut off or squeezed off the
> road, and this I find harder to just let go. I'm trying to
> train myself to get license/vehicle numbers rather than just
> be scared, but:
>
> 1) Is it worth getting license numbers of cars? Trucks?
> 2) What else (if anything) do you do about bad driver behavior?
>

Getting the license is good, in case there is a real incident.

I treat them the same way I treat the wild, uncontrolled kids of some mom's
I see in (pick your) public places. I do my best to put them in their
place. In my opinion, it's my duty and responsibility as a Citizen of the
USA to police my own behavior and also of those around me. If some asshole
is screwing up in my presence, I let 'em know that it's noticed, and that
it's disaproved of by me and others. In regards to bicycling, if a motorist
tries to sqeeze me I'll yell first and thump their car if I must. If I
catch them at a stop I'll give them an earfull. There are a lot of spoiled
brats out there who've been coddled and believe that no-one can tell them
what to do or how to behave, or certainly not reprimand them for bad
behavior. In fact, they were taught that by permissive parents and a weak
public school system.

Only once in 5 years with this behavior have I had to reach for my weapon.
That's as far as it went.

As of recent, I've take to giving the bird to any asshole with a
super-thumper sound system. If I get any flack, I ask them, "This is what
you're saying to me and the rest of the world, isn't it? Here's back at
ya!"

Oh, no, we must be afraid of everyone and rely on the coppers to protect us!
LOL!



--
Robin Hubert >

[Chris B.]

On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 09:38:08 -0400, Stergios Papadakis
> wrote:

<snip>


>Today, I started carrying a little notebook in
>my jersey pocket on my commute. It is a "wet notes"
>book, which is a coated paper that is waterproof.
>You can get it at marine stores. I started carrying
>it because the same car leaned on the horn and gave me
>the finger for the fourth time (six-lane road, light
>traffic, I was in the right half of the right lane).
>I will now have a dated log of such occurences. If it
>ever does get serious, which I doubt, the log will
>be important.

If you have been harassed on the road four times by the same person,
the situation already is serious. Report this to the police now and
again following any further incidents. Insist on a report. The
police will want to do as little as possible of course, but it is
important that you establish a real paper trail now rather than after
the sociopath hits you.

By the way, the car didn't do anything, there is (purportedly) a human
behind the wheel and they are supposed to be responsible for their
actions. Please don't absolve them of responsibility by saying that
their car is the one harassing you.

--
Chris Bird

[Rivermist]

I agree with much of what you say, including your opinion that we can't rely
on the police for much.

However, I wouldn't recommend that others follow your example of giving the
finger to people just because their stereo is too loud or regularly carrying
a weapon.




"Robin Hubert" > wrote in message
link.net...
> "Dan Cosley" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I've been having a larger-than-usual number of unpleasant-to-
> > potentially-dangerous encounters with motorists recently. This
> > involves verbal stuff, which usually I can shrug off. However,
> > it also sometimes involves being cut off or squeezed off the
> > road, and this I find harder to just let go. I'm trying to
> > train myself to get license/vehicle numbers rather than just
> > be scared, but:
> >
> > 1) Is it worth getting license numbers of cars? Trucks?
> > 2) What else (if anything) do you do about bad driver behavior?
> >
>
> Getting the license is good, in case there is a real incident.
>
> I treat them the same way I treat the wild, uncontrolled kids of some
mom's
> I see in (pick your) public places. I do my best to put them in their
> place. In my opinion, it's my duty and responsibility as a Citizen of the
> USA to police my own behavior and also of those around me. If some
asshole
> is screwing up in my presence, I let 'em know that it's noticed, and that
> it's disaproved of by me and others. In regards to bicycling, if a
motorist
> tries to sqeeze me I'll yell first and thump their car if I must. If I
> catch them at a stop I'll give them an earfull. There are a lot of
spoiled
> brats out there who've been coddled and believe that no-one can tell them
> what to do or how to behave, or certainly not reprimand them for bad
> behavior. In fact, they were taught that by permissive parents and a weak
> public school system.
>
> Only once in 5 years with this behavior have I had to reach for my weapon.
> That's as far as it went.
>
> As of recent, I've take to giving the bird to any asshole with a
> super-thumper sound system. If I get any flack, I ask them, "This is what
> you're saying to me and the rest of the world, isn't it? Here's back at
> ya!"
>
> Oh, no, we must be afraid of everyone and rely on the coppers to protect
us!
> LOL!
>
>
>
> --
> Robin Hubert >
>
>
>

[Rivermist]

I have had some close calls myself lately, including one yesterday at, of
all places, Stone Mountain Park near Atlanta, where a driver attempted to
turn right from the left lane and had to slam on the brakes to not hit me.

Lately I have had the feeling that my luck is running out. I am afraid that
eventually one of them will get me.


"Dan Cosley" > wrote in message
...
> I've been having a larger-than-usual number of unpleasant-to-
> potentially-dangerous encounters with motorists recently. This
> involves verbal stuff, which usually I can shrug off. However,
> it also sometimes involves being cut off or squeezed off the
> road, and this I find harder to just let go. I'm trying to
> train myself to get license/vehicle numbers rather than just
> be scared, but:
>
> 1) Is it worth getting license numbers of cars? Trucks?
> 2) What else (if anything) do you do about bad driver behavior?
>
> -- Dan
>
> --
> Dan Cosley * http://www.cs.umn.edu/~cosley/)
> GroupLens Research Lab, Univ of MN (http://movielens.umn.edu/ *
612.624.8372)
> *** Just a foot soldier in the Army of Truth ***

[R15757]

the proper response to bad driver behavior is cool stoicism. Freaking out when
drivers mess up or act with deliberate malevolence is a sign that the rider
holds unrealistic expectations about riding in traffic. The proper time to
freak out is when drivers start acting properly.

Robert

[Doug Purdy]

"Chris B." > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 09:38:08 -0400, Stergios Papadakis
> > wrote:
> If you have been harassed on the road four times by the same person,
> the situation already is serious. Report this to the police now and
> again following any further incidents. Insist on a report. The
> police will want to do as little as possible of course, but it is
> important that you establish a real paper trail now rather than after
> the sociopath hits you.

Absolutely, at four times by the same person, a call to the police is past
due. Assuming of course that you are by now sure it isn't someone you know
pulling your leg or trying to say hello.

Some drivers have made up their own rules of the road and get quite put out
that others haven't read their minds. Chances are they're aggressively
harassing others too. Do everyone, other drivers, pedestrians, etc a favor
and get that rolling time bomb off the road ASAP.

Doug
Toronto

[Mark Jones]

"Dan Cosley" > wrote in message
...
> I've been having a larger-than-usual number of unpleasant-to-
> potentially-dangerous encounters with motorists recently. This
> involves verbal stuff, which usually I can shrug off. However,
> it also sometimes involves being cut off or squeezed off the
> road, and this I find harder to just let go. I'm trying to
> train myself to get license/vehicle numbers rather than just
> be scared, but:
>
> 1) Is it worth getting license numbers of cars? Trucks?
> 2) What else (if anything) do you do about bad driver behavior?
This happens to me on a frequent basis, even when I am in
my 4x4 truck. People are constantly cutting in front of me to
take an exit, even when there is nobody for quite some distance
behind me. I drive in a fairly calm manner, at a steady speed
to avoid this nonsense, and it still happens.

This is a primary reason why I avoid the streets during rush hour.
We had a bicycle rider get run over from behind yesterday
morning, about 1 mile from where I work. There are a lot
of drivers who act like they have a death wish and they don't
care who they take with them.

[Mark Jones]

"Stergios Papadakis" > wrote in message
...
> Today, I started carrying a little notebook in
> my jersey pocket on my commute. It is a "wet notes"
> book, which is a coated paper that is waterproof.
> You can get it at marine stores.
You should be able to find these at any store that sells
surveying supplies.

[mark]

"Dan Cosley" wrote ...
> I've been having a larger-than-usual number of unpleasant-to-
> potentially-dangerous encounters with motorists recently. This
> involves verbal stuff, which usually I can shrug off. However,
> it also sometimes involves being cut off or squeezed off the
> road, and this I find harder to just let go. I'm trying to
> train myself to get license/vehicle numbers rather than just
> be scared, but:
>
> 1) Is it worth getting license numbers of cars? Trucks?
> 2) What else (if anything) do you do about bad driver behavior?
>
> -- Dan

Along with the notepad, carry a cell phone. If you can give a calm,
objective description of the incident immediately after it happened, making
it pretty obvious that some traffic law was violated, you have a much better
chance of persuading the police to act. Use some discretion here. If the
incident is over and done with and you are no longer in any danger, calling
911 will be counterproductive. In this case, call the non-emergency phone
number for your county's police/fire/ambulance dispatch center. I have
numbers in my cell phone directory for state, county, and various local law
enforcement agencies just for this kind of thing.

With commercial vehicles, a call to the business can be very effective.
Vehicle numbers can be more useful than license numbers if the business is
big enough to own several vehicles. If you can't get a vehicle number or
license number, sometimes a description of the vehicle along with location
of the incident and time of day will let the employer deduce which driver
was involved. If the company takes this sort of thing seriously, they will
call you back and ask questions trying to get a clearer picture of what
happened.
--
mark

[Doug Purdy]

"Boyd Speerschneider" > wrote in message
...
> Dan Cosley > wrote in :
> The guy stops his truck, reaches in the glove box, and pulls out a .45
> The guy aims it at us and yells "You want some of this!!!???"
> ps. In all the excitement, we forgot to get the guys license plate number.

Nice job. A description would have been a start. I wonder how many people
he's shot since you all decided not to bother reporting it.

[Peter Cole]

"Dan Cosley" > wrote in message
...
> I've been having a larger-than-usual number of unpleasant-to-
> potentially-dangerous encounters with motorists recently. This
> involves verbal stuff, which usually I can shrug off. However,
> it also sometimes involves being cut off or squeezed off the
> road, and this I find harder to just let go. I'm trying to
> train myself to get license/vehicle numbers rather than just
> be scared, but:
>
> 1) Is it worth getting license numbers of cars? Trucks?
> 2) What else (if anything) do you do about bad driver behavior?

My state (MA) has an on-line complaint form that you can fill out. Supposedly,
all complaints stay on someone's record. You might see what your state offers.

[Hunrobe]

>Boyd Speerschneider

wrote in part:

>empty barrels make the most noise.

Which explains your little piece of fiction.

Bob Hunt

[Zippy the Pinhead]

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 15:36:28 GMT, Boyd Speerschneider
> wrote:

>
>A big white truck F150 wiht tinted windows, a redneck driving it, and Bucs,
>confederate flag, and Dale Ernheart "3" stickers on the back window.

"Out of respect for the memory of Dale Earnhart, I have decided to
completely eliminate all vision to the rear of my head. If I can't
see it, it isn't happening".

[Pat]

x-no-archive: yes
> >
> > I've been having a larger-than-usual number of unpleasant-to-
> > potentially-dangerous encounters with motorists recently. This
> > involves verbal stuff, which usually I can shrug off. However,
> > it also sometimes involves being cut off or squeezed off the
> > road, and this I find harder to just let go. I'm trying to
> > train myself to get license/vehicle numbers rather than just
> > be scared, but:
> >
> > 1) Is it worth getting license numbers of cars? Trucks?
> > 2) What else (if anything) do you do about bad driver behavior?
> >
> > -- Dan

I just went through some unpleasantness with a neighbor who would stand
outside and curse at me. When talking about it to a police officer, he
said, "Why didn't you call in a report for "disorderly conduct"? I didn't
know there was such a thing, but it would also seem to apply in your
situation. The officer said, "People can't just curse at you and create
dangerous situations with impunity." The Disorderly Conduct citation here
in Texas is like a traffic ticket, kind of, but the first time it costs $48.
Then, the second time, the fine goes up to $200, he told me. So, it gets
their attention quick!

I suggest you call your local police and ask them if the same possibility is
in place at your location.

Pat in TX

[Rick Onanian]

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:19:15 GMT, Zippy the Pinhead >
wrote:
>> A big white truck F150 wiht tinted windows, a redneck driving it, and
>> Bucs, confederate flag, and Dale Ernheart "3" stickers on the back
>> window.
>
> "Out of respect for the memory of Dale Earnhart, I have decided to
> completely eliminate all vision to the rear of my head. If I can't
> see it, it isn't happening".

I've not seen a "3" that filled enough glass to
substantially (let alone completely) eliminate
rear vision. It does seem a bit bandwagony,
however, to put a "3" on after the tragedy,
when you had no "3" before, although not so bad
an "in loving memory..." sticker.

Further, the side mirrors on a pickup truck give
a more than adequate view behind the truck, and
to block the rear window completely is only a
loss of convenience, not of safety or visibility.

Smaller car mirrors adjusted to compensate for
loss of rear window vision result in a terribly
large blind spot, but not so most pickup mirrors.

--
Rick "Pickup Man" Onanian

[Boyd Speerschneider]

(Hunrobe) wrote in news:20030814021111.06755.00000774@mb-
m03.aol.com:

>>Boyd Speerschneider
>
> wrote in part:
>
>>empty barrels make the most noise.
>
> Which explains your little piece of fiction.
>
> Bob Hunt

I don't know about yours, but my news reader doesn't make any noise.
If you wish to call me a liar, I suggest you do it to my face.

- Boyd S.

[Coal Porter]

On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:59:11 +0000 (UTC), Dan Cosley
> wrote:

|I've been having a larger-than-usual number of unpleasant-to-
|potentially-dangerous encounters with motorists recently. This
|involves verbal stuff, which usually I can shrug off. However,
|it also sometimes involves being cut off or squeezed off the
|road, and this I find harder to just let go. I'm trying to
|train myself to get license/vehicle numbers rather than just
|be scared, but:
|
|1) Is it worth getting license numbers of cars? Trucks?
|2) What else (if anything) do you do about bad driver behavior?

When you finish your "great" rides Do you remember the cars?

I didn't. So I got to thinking that if they were bugging me, it wasn't
them, it was me. I tried to concentrate more on the ride and over
time, I've become a bit better cyclist and that makes it easier still
to avoid running into anything I can't just dismiss and carry on<gr>.
It's hard sometimes, ain't saying it's not. It doesn't hurt to recall
that a lot more drivers try to be helpful than the few that make you
shake your head.

Good luck w the the attitude adj.
-c.porter.

[TomP]

A disposable camera couldn't hurt either.

Stergios Papadakis wrote:

> Dan Cosley wrote:
> >
> > I've been having a larger-than-usual number of unpleasant-to-
> > potentially-dangerous encounters with motorists recently. This
> > involves verbal stuff, which usually I can shrug off. However,
> > it also sometimes involves being cut off or squeezed off the
> > road, and this I find harder to just let go. I'm trying to
> > train myself to get license/vehicle numbers rather than just
> > be scared, but:
> >
> > 1) Is it worth getting license numbers of cars? Trucks?
> > 2) What else (if anything) do you do about bad driver behavior?
> >
> > -- Dan
> >
>
> Today, I started carrying a little notebook in
> my jersey pocket on my commute. It is a "wet notes"
> book, which is a coated paper that is waterproof.
> You can get it at marine stores. I started carrying
> it because the same car leaned on the horn and gave me
> the finger for the fourth time (six-lane road, light
> traffic, I was in the right half of the right lane).
> I will now have a dated log of such occurences. If it
> ever does get serious, which I doubt, the log will
> be important.
>
> Today, I wrote down the first license plate number, a
> description of the car, and the driver's actions.
> I've decided not to just shrug things off anymore,
> if I can tell people what they did wrong, and why
> it is wrong, I will. If you address them by their
> license plate number, it has a surprising calming
> effect. I bet that if you obviously write it down
> as well, it will be even more effective.
> Unfortunately, this state doesn't require
> front license plates, so I can't always do it.
>
> As far as having the larger-than-usual number
> of encounters lately, I find that I feel that way
> at times, and it is probably just the statistics
> of small numbers. The events are rare anyway, only
> a few times a year usually, so if I get a few in
> a month I notice. It is probably just chance.
>
> Stergios

--


Tp

-------- __o
----- -\<. ------ __o
--- ( ) / ( ) ---- -\<.
----------------- ( ) / ( )
---------------------------------------------

Freedom is not free; Free men are not equal; Equal men are not free.

[Buck]

"TomP" > wrote in message
...
> A disposable camera couldn't hurt either.
>

I carried one of those in my handlebar bag during a weekend tour a few years
ago. I had to bunnyhop an obstacle at speed (about 35mph) and the camera
flew out of the bag, hit the pavement, then slid about 40 feet before
exiting into the ditch. I retrieved it and other than a few scratches, it
survived quite well. The pictures even turned out nice!

-Buck

[Ray Heindl]

"Buck" <j u n k m a i l @ g a l a x y c o r p . c o m> wrote:

> "TomP" > wrote in message
> ...
>> A disposable camera couldn't hurt either.
>>
>
> I carried one of those in my handlebar bag during a weekend tour a
> few years ago. I had to bunnyhop an obstacle at speed (about
> 35mph) and the camera flew out of the bag, hit the pavement, then
> slid about 40 feet before exiting into the ditch. I retrieved it
> and other than a few scratches, it survived quite well. The
> pictures even turned out nice!

How long do people carry the same camera around? I would think that a
year or two in a saddle bag would ruin the film, even if the dirt etc.
hadn't ruined the camera. I suppose if you get harassed frequently
that wouldn't be a problem. For that matter, it probably doesn't
really need to work, except the flash. If people think you've just
taken their picture, they'll likely behave for a while.

--
Ray Heindl
(remove the X to reply)

[Jeff]

"Ray Heindl" > wrote in message
...
> "Buck" <j u n k m a i l @ g a l a x y c o r p . c o m> wrote:
>
> > "TomP" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> A disposable camera couldn't hurt either.
> >>
> >
> > I carried one of those in my handlebar bag during a weekend tour a
> > few years ago. I had to bunnyhop an obstacle at speed (about
> > 35mph) and the camera flew out of the bag, hit the pavement, then
> > slid about 40 feet before exiting into the ditch. I retrieved it
> > and other than a few scratches, it survived quite well. The
> > pictures even turned out nice!
>
> How long do people carry the same camera around? I would think that a
> year or two in a saddle bag would ruin the film, even if the dirt etc.
> hadn't ruined the camera. I suppose if you get harassed frequently
> that wouldn't be a problem. For that matter, it probably doesn't
> really need to work, except the flash. If people think you've just
> taken their picture, they'll likely behave for a while.

Or it might just set off a real whacko. Probably better to catch the
licence plate and place a formal complaint at the local cop shop. Actually,
I'd be surprised if I could get the camera out and take a picture before the
car was out of range.