Re: Fitting bar ends, to cut or not

[Slash]

On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 11:04:33 +0100, Colin Swan <colin AT nildram DOT
net> scribbled:

>OK, let's get it clear to start with, I've got bar ends, I had them on
>my old bike, I use them a lot and I am going to fit them, so please no
>debate about the merits or otherwise of them :-)
>
>I say that because Googling for an answer to this showed that someone
>asked this before and the only response was "bar ends are crap, don't
>fit them!", which isn't very helpful IMO...
>
>Anyway, my question is as follows:
>
>I am fitting clamp-type bar ends to my 03 Rockhopper Disk, which has
>end caps integral to the grips. I'm therefore going to have to cut the
>end of the grips off, but do I cut some of the grip off too, move the
>levers and shifters, or both? On my old Marin Hawk Hill, I think I did
>a combination, but I just wondered whether there was an accepted
>correct way of doing it, or whether it was down to personal
>preference.

Like everything in life, it all boils down to personal preference. I
just chopped the ends off my grips and slapped some Profile Design bar
ends on. They came with plastic end caps to fill the exposed bar ends.
I didn't even move my shifters or brake levers because, in a further
fashion faux pas, I put these bar ends on a riser bar. The hand space
is now a little narrower, but it's still comfortable for me. If you
have a flat bar, moving the levers should be fairly easy if you need
to do that.

>While in a questioning mood, I am new to disk brakes, and while I find
>them very good, I am a little disappointed that the front one is a bit
>noisy, making a regukar metallic scrape that makes the bike sound
>cheap. Will this go as the pads bed in? I have only put about 20 road
>miles on it so far...

I don't run discs myself, but from what I hear they usually require a
bit of break-in period. I'd run them another 100 miles or so and see
if they clear up. Be sure to ride through mud, they like that. All
else failing, EBC Green pads are apparently recommended. I'm sure
someone else with actual experience will fill you in.

>Any helpful comments gratefully received :-)
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Colin Swan
>Nildram Operations

-Slash
--
"Ebert Victorious"
-The Onion

[Colin Swan]

On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 02:16:37 -0800, Slash >
wrote:

>>I am fitting clamp-type bar ends to my 03 Rockhopper Disk, which has
>>end caps integral to the grips. I'm therefore going to have to cut the
>>end of the grips off, but do I cut some of the grip off too, move the
>>levers and shifters, or both? On my old Marin Hawk Hill, I think I did
>>a combination, but I just wondered whether there was an accepted
>>correct way of doing it, or whether it was down to personal
>>preference.
>
>Like everything in life, it all boils down to personal preference. I
>just chopped the ends off my grips and slapped some Profile Design bar
>ends on. They came with plastic end caps to fill the exposed bar ends.
>I didn't even move my shifters or brake levers because, in a further
>fashion faux pas, I put these bar ends on a riser bar. The hand space
>is now a little narrower, but it's still comfortable for me. If you
>have a flat bar, moving the levers should be fairly easy if you need
>to do that.

Thanks for that - have the Profile ends too, mainly because they have
a thinner clamp. I think I'll try simply cutting down the grips, after
making sure I can still get my hand in. So is it not fashionable to
have ends on riser bars then? :-)

>>While in a questioning mood, I am new to disk brakes, and while I find
>>them very good, I am a little disappointed that the front one is a bit
>>noisy, making a regukar metallic scrape that makes the bike sound
>>cheap. Will this go as the pads bed in? I have only put about 20 road
>>miles on it so far...
>
>I don't run discs myself, but from what I hear they usually require a
>bit of break-in period. I'd run them another 100 miles or so and see
>if they clear up. Be sure to ride through mud, they like that. All
>else failing, EBC Green pads are apparently recommended. I'm sure
>someone else with actual experience will fill you in.

As I thought - good excuse to get some miles in though. I have some
friends with run sports cars (Lotus Elise, Noble M12), their brake pad
of choice is EBC Greenstuff, and they were quite amused to see that I
can get the same for my bike!


Regards,

Colin Swan
Nildram Operations

[spademan o---[\) *]

"Colin Swan" <colin AT nildram DOT net> wrote in message
...
> OK, let's get it clear to start with, I've got bar ends, I had them on
> my old bike, I use them a lot and I am going to fit them, so please no
> debate about the merits or otherwise of them :-)
>
> I say that because Googling for an answer to this showed that someone
> asked this before and the only response was "bar ends are crap, don't
> fit them!", which isn't very helpful IMO...
>
> Anyway, my question is as follows:
>
> I am fitting clamp-type bar ends to my 03 Rockhopper Disk, which has
> end caps integral to the grips. I'm therefore going to have to cut the
> end of the grips off, but do I cut some of the grip off too, move the
> levers and shifters, or both? On my old Marin Hawk Hill, I think I did
> a combination, but I just wondered whether there was an accepted
> correct way of doing it, or whether it was down to personal
> preference.
>

If there is no plug in the end of your handlebars, all you have to do is
gently (okay start gently and work up) tap the end of the grip against the
end of the bar with a hammer. This should easily cut out a nice hole which
fits the bar prefectly. Move your brakes/shifters in board half an inch,
push the grips up and fit bar-ends. Voila.


> While in a questioning mood, I am new to disk brakes, and while I find
> them very good, I am a little disappointed that the front one is a bit
> noisy, making a regukar metallic scrape that makes the bike sound
> cheap. Will this go as the pads bed in? I have only put about 20 road
> miles on it so far...

You will need to use them for longer to properly bed them in, however if
they are scraping you may need to fuss about with shims etc to re-align the
disc within the caliper.

> Any helpful comments gratefully received :-)

No problem,

Steve.

[bomba]

spademan o---[) * wrote:

> If there is no plug in the end of your handlebars, all you have to do is
> gently (okay start gently and work up) tap the end of the grip against the
> end of the bar with a hammer. This should easily cut out a nice hole which
> fits the bar prefectly. Move your brakes/shifters in board half an inch,
> push the grips up and fit bar-ends. Voila.

This is the way to do it, but depends on you having enough room inboard
to shift everything in (everything's a bit cramped on my narrow bars).
Also, bear in mind that in this situation, your natural hand position
will be further towards the middle, so you'll lose a bit of control.
Wider bars are the order of the day.

--
a.m-b FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/ambfaq.htm

a.bmx FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/bmx_faq.htm

[Bob M]

On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 14:57:40 +0200, bomba > wrote:

> spademan o---[) * wrote:
>
>> If there is no plug in the end of your handlebars, all you have to do is
>> gently (okay start gently and work up) tap the end of the grip against
>> the
>> end of the bar with a hammer. This should easily cut out a nice hole
>> which
>> fits the bar prefectly. Move your brakes/shifters in board half an inch,
>> push the grips up and fit bar-ends. Voila.
>
> This is the way to do it, but depends on you having enough room inboard
> to shift everything in (everything's a bit cramped on my narrow bars).
> Also, bear in mind that in this situation, your natural hand position
> will be further towards the middle, so you'll lose a bit of control.
> Wider bars are the order of the day.
>

Would you lose control or gain control? It makes sense to me that you
steer slower with wider bars and faster with narrower bars. If "control"
means that you want slower response to steering input, then go for wider
bars.

--
Bob M in CT
Remove 'x.' to reply

[T_Blood]

> > spademan o---[) * wrote:
> >
> >> If there is no plug in the end of your handlebars, all you have to do
is
> >> gently (okay start gently and work up) tap the end of the grip against
> >> the
> >> end of the bar with a hammer. This should easily cut out a nice hole
> >> which
> >> fits the bar prefectly. Move your brakes/shifters in board half an
inch,
> >> push the grips up and fit bar-ends. Voila.
> >
> > This is the way to do it, but depends on you having enough room inboard
> > to shift everything in (everything's a bit cramped on my narrow bars).
> > Also, bear in mind that in this situation, your natural hand position
> > will be further towards the middle, so you'll lose a bit of control.
> > Wider bars are the order of the day.
> >
>
> Would you lose control or gain control? It makes sense to me that you
> steer slower with wider bars and faster with narrower bars. If "control"
> means that you want slower response to steering input, then go for wider
> bars.

That's a question I have frequently asked myself. My HT has a closer grip
and seems to respond quicker on the technical single track, my FS has a
wider grip and seems to not. However on fast downhill I prefer the wider
grip, might be totally psychological but I feel I have more control then.

[voodoo]

"Colin Swan" <colin AT nildram DOT net> wrote in message
...
> So is it not fashionable to have ends on riser bars then? :-)
>
People may think you're a "Fred" (I think they call them Barneys now), but
if that is what you want, and what you like, who cares what they think,
right? Put those barends on.

Me personally, I loved riding behind my pals with barends, just to watch
them take that occasional sudden exit from the trail when they snagged
something, then laugh at them. After all, they had plenty laughs at my own
expense. :)

voodoo - who sometimes forgets to unclip when he stops

[Bob M]

On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 18:50:19 +0200, T_Blood > wrote:

>
>> Does that make sense? I'm not usually very good at explaining things.
>>
>
> Of course it makes sense, it was just that my reaction seems quicker with
> the short grip on tight stuff, and I feel more in control with a wider
> grip
> on faster, a bit wider, wreck and die stuff.
>
>
>

I think you're right. Perhaps longer bars but with long grips would
suffice? Then, when it's fast and nasty, you put your hands on the ends;
when it's slow but tight, you switch toward the middle.

--
Bob M in CT
Remove 'x.' to reply

[Mark Hickey]

Colin Swan <colin AT nildram DOT net> wrote:

> I'm therefore going to have to cut the
>end of the grips off, but do I cut some of the grip off too, move the
>levers and shifters, or both? On my old Marin Hawk Hill, I think I did
>a combination, but I just wondered whether there was an accepted
>correct way of doing it, or whether it was down to personal
>preference.

I'd leave it at personal preference. When I used to do more dodging
trees in the relatively flat and fast northeastern US, I liked the
bars short. That gave me more margin between the trees (still, not
always enough... ouch), and it really didn't seem to inhibit the
control of the bike.

Here in the more technical, steeper, rockier southwestern US, I like
wider bars. They allow me to exert more force on the front end when a
rock is telling me to go one way and my head disagrees.

And I personally like bar ends, if that matters (I know it really
doesn't). I run my bars "XC low", and like the lower, longer position
on fast fire roads and when climbing long, steep sections. I could
just hunker forward more and bend my elbows more - but where's the fun
in that? ;-)

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

[Colin Swan]

On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 11:46:26 -0500, "voodoo" > wrote:

>
>"Colin Swan" <colin AT nildram DOT net> wrote in message
...
>> So is it not fashionable to have ends on riser bars then? :-)
>>
>People may think you're a "Fred" (I think they call them Barneys now), but
>if that is what you want, and what you like, who cares what they think,
>right? Put those barends on.

Not sure what a "Fred" or a "Barney" is - perhaps an American term
that hasn't made it over to the UK? Anyway, I fitted them at the
weekend by cutting the very ends of the grips off, moving the brakes
and shifters in and sliding the grips. Haven't had a chance to ride it
like this yet as I didn't get time (and it was too hot), but should be
about the same setup that I'm used to. Does make the front of the bike
look quite wide though, so maybe I'll try a flat bar at some point...

>Me personally, I loved riding behind my pals with barends, just to watch
>them take that occasional sudden exit from the trail when they snagged
>something, then laugh at them. After all, they had plenty laughs at my own
>expense. :)
>
>voodoo - who sometimes forgets to unclip when he stops

That's always a good one :-)


Regards,

Colin Swan
Nildram Operations

[voodoo]

"Colin Swan" <colin AT nildram DOT net> wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 11:46:26 -0500, "voodoo" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Colin Swan" <colin AT nildram DOT net> wrote in message
> ...
> >> So is it not fashionable to have ends on riser bars then? :-)
> >>
> >People may think you're a "Fred" (I think they call them Barneys now),
but
> >if that is what you want, and what you like, who cares what they think,
> >right? Put those barends on.
>
> Not sure what a "Fred" or a "Barney" is - perhaps an American term
> that hasn't made it over to the UK? Anyway, I fitted them at the
> weekend by cutting the very ends of the grips off, moving the brakes
> and shifters in and sliding the grips. Haven't had a chance to ride it
> like this yet as I didn't get time (and it was too hot), but should be
> about the same setup that I'm used to. Does make the front of the bike
> look quite wide though, so maybe I'll try a flat bar at some point...
>
Don't know if I would want to give up my riser just because it looked wider.
When I first went from a 22" flat bar, to a 26" riser, it just
felt_so_right. I'll never use a flat bar again.

> >Me personally, I loved riding behind my pals with barends, just to watch
> >them take that occasional sudden exit from the trail when they snagged
> >something, then laugh at them. After all, they had plenty laughs at my
own
> >expense. :)
> >
> >voodoo - who sometimes forgets to unclip when he stops
>
> That's always a good one :-)
>
Even better was the time I forgot to properly torque my new cranks. As I was
looking at the crank arm hanging from my left shoe, I was, for the moment
unsure what to do with it, and the thought never crossed my mind to un-clip
with the right, so I just fell right over.

[Dan]

On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 17:38:31 GMT, Bob M > wrote:

>On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 18:50:19 +0200, T_Blood > wrote:
>
>>
>>> Does that make sense? I'm not usually very good at explaining things.
>>>
>>
>> Of course it makes sense, it was just that my reaction seems quicker with
>> the short grip on tight stuff, and I feel more in control with a wider
>> grip
>> on faster, a bit wider, wreck and die stuff.
>
>I think you're right. Perhaps longer bars but with long grips would
>suffice? Then, when it's fast and nasty, you put your hands on the ends;
>when it's slow but tight, you switch toward the middle.

But you always want to have your hands ideally placed for the brakes
and shifters. I switched from flat and narrow to riser and wide and
the difference in control is amazing. Not only is the torque theory
correct but it is much easier to get your hands to do the right amount
of steering when they have to make wide movements. Just like it is
much easier to put a piece of string through a one inch hole than a
thread through a needle.

In short, narrow bars are quicker but less accurate and thereby not
ideal for technical riding.

--
- Orange Patriot -03

[Stephen Baker]

Dan dan says:

>In short, narrow bars are quicker but less accurate and thereby not
>ideal for technical riding.

Depnds on what you are used to. If you have suffiecient strength, you can be
just as good with narrow bars (they just require more strength for a given
torque) assuming you have the required accuracy.
I use a standard of "no narrower than a shoulder-width" for mine, so (quickly
measures) I _can_ get away with 19" bars (rotator to rotator). I usually use
21", no bar ends, which gives me all the control I need with a rigid fork.
Precision, baby!

Steve

[Colin Swan]

On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:11:54 GMT, "fireflyer" >
wrote:

>"Colin Swan" <colin AT nildram DOT net> wrote in message
...
>> OK, let's get it clear to start with, I've got bar ends, I had them on
>> my old bike, I use them a lot and I am going to fit them, so please no
>> debate about the merits or otherwise of them :-)
>>
>> I say that because Googling for an answer to this showed that someone
>> asked this before and the only response was "bar ends are crap, don't
>> fit them!", which isn't very helpful IMO...
>>
>> Anyway, my question is as follows:
>>
>> I am fitting clamp-type bar ends to my 03 Rockhopper Disk, which has
>> end caps integral to the grips. I'm therefore going to have to cut the
>> end of the grips off, but do I cut some of the grip off too, move the
>> levers and shifters, or both? On my old Marin Hawk Hill, I think I did
>> a combination, but I just wondered whether there was an accepted
>> correct way of doing it, or whether it was down to personal
>> preference.
>
>do you have midget hands? cut the end of the grip off, move everything in,
>shifters et al, then add bar ends. i gather you will never be asked to work
>on the space shuttle...

Thanks - that's what I did in the end, and it seems to work OK. I
don't have wide hands, but have very long fingers, which makes it a
pain to get gloves that fit. You're probably right about the Shuttle,
but I don't think it will be anything to do with my hands :-)


Regards,

Colin Swan
Nildram Operations