TDF understanding

[Milton]

This is the first year im taking more than the usual notice of the TDF as
both my boys (13 & 11yrs) have taken up cycling (Midland Club, WA)
Im trying to make sense of it all.
How do the sprints work in each stage .
does every body stop & do standing starts or do the sprinters somehow make
it to the front of the 200 strong peleton & do a rolling sprint ?????????

If only they telecast it live as there is **** all on during the early hours
which i think is when it would be on, (tape it)
Im sure even a non cyclist would rather watch it than paid advertising/crap
& more people would be the wise to how it works & cycling would grow in
Oz.........

Mil

[g]

Milton > wrote:

> This is the first year im taking more than the usual notice of the TDF as
> both my boys (13 & 11yrs) have taken up cycling (Midland Club, WA)
> Im trying to make sense of it all.
> How do the sprints work in each stage .
> does every body stop & do standing starts or do the sprinters somehow make
> it to the front of the 200 strong peleton & do a rolling sprint ?????????

G'day Milton,
No-one does standing starts nor waits for anyone (unless its an
important team mate), its first over the line and nothing else to it.
Yes, sprinters just make sure they're at the pointy end on the bunch
when the time comes. If they aren't, tough. Stuart O'Grady says he makes
sure he starts making his way to the front with 40km to go. McEwen just
stays near the front most the race - he has the intermediate sprints to
worry about. It is a very tactical sport.

There are intermediate sprints at various points along the course, with
time bonuses, 6,4 and 2 seconds for 1st,2nd,3rd (& goes towards Green
jersey points). The riders know where they are and the fast guys start
jockeying for position as they approach.

Infact McGee lost the yellow jersey today because some Frenchman (Nazon)
accrued 8 or 10 seconds going for those intermediates...

> If only they telecast it live as there is **** all on during the early hours
> which i think is when it would be on, (tape it)
> Im sure even a non cyclist would rather watch it than paid advertising/crap
> & more people would be the wise to how it works & cycling would grow in
> Oz.........
>
> Mil

Actually, each stage is over by 11pm WA time. Live would suit us here.

There is an FAQ on the Tour here:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2003/tour03/?id=features/FAQ

Hope this helps

GK

[Harrow]

Milton wrote:
> This is the first year im taking more than the usual notice of the TDF
> as both my boys (13 & 11yrs) have taken up cycling (Midland Club, WA)
> Im trying to make sense of it all. How do the sprints work in each
> stage . does every body stop & do standing starts or do the sprinters
> somehow make it to the front of the 200 strong peleton & do a rolling
> sprint ?????????
> If only they telecast it live as there is **** all on during the early
> hours which i think is when it would be on, (tape it) Im sure even a non
> cyclist would rather watch it than paid advertising/crap & more people
> would be the wise to how it works & cycling would grow in Oz.........
> Mil



Milton,

Each Sunday night, SBS is telecasting entire stages live in Sydney from
10:50pm EST. If they have it over your way, you won't even have to stay
up late to watch it !!! Check out your TV guide.

I'm planning to have the indoor trainer set up and get a good 2 hr
session in each week !!

Regards, Harrow.



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[Andrew Swan]

> There is an FAQ on the Tour here:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2003/tour03/?id=features/FAQ

That is a great FAQ as far as it goes, but I'd also like to know:

- why are the green, white, and polka-dot jerseys coloured that way (the
explanation for yellow being widely known)?

- why do Phil and Paul (the commentators) say "there's no breeze to cool
the riders today" when the peloton is going 50 km/h and therefore
generating their own apparent wind? (or even more absurdly, if there
were a strong tailwind, the riders would feel little or no relative
breeze at all, so P&P's comment makes little apparent sense)

- what kind of gearing do the top sprinters use for the flat stages? I'm
pretty sure the top gear on my road bike (52 x 14) would be useless
(i.e. way too low) at the 70km/h quoted for these guys in the finish
straight.

- when a rider qualifies for several jerseys on one day, is he actually
given one of each of those jerseys to keep? And the next day, when the
lesser jerseys for which he qualifies can be worn by the riders coming
second in those categories, do those riders get to keep those jerseys
even though they weren't leading that competition at the time? And how
do they decide which jersey is "lesser", e.g. what if a rider held both
the green and the KOM?

- when finishing a time trial, why don't all the riders sprint for the
last few 100 metres (thus using up their alactic reserves, of which you
only have 30 seconds or so)? I'm talking about the real TT contenders,
not the guys saving themselves for later stages. And if they've given
everything they've got, why don't you see them throwing up afterwards
like real human beings? :-)

- I've heard that many riders dislike the rest days because they disrupt
the daily routine of racing - is this for real? (me, I dislike the rest
days because SBS just rehashes the nightly coverage I've already seen)

- why in the flat-out sprint that Cookey won (Stage 2) are almost all
the riders still in the saddle (see
http://www.sportal.com.au/photos/wallpaper/000114img800.jpg)? That
sprint was really close, and Cookey's just crossed the line, so it's not
because they have sat up already.

Phew, that's enough for now - anyone know any answers please?

TIA,

&roo

[NickZX6R]

Andrew Swan > wrote:
>> There is an FAQ on the Tour here:
>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2003/tour03/?id=features/FAQ

> That is a great FAQ as far as it goes, but I'd also like to know:

> - why are the green, white, and polka-dot jerseys coloured that way (the
> explanation for yellow being widely known)?

<snip>

> TIA,

> &roo

No answers, but I'd like to know who makes all the jerseys and how many
do they make?

eg. there are the 'fake' jerseys used on the podium which zip all the way up
the back, but on the following day, the riders will wear a 'real' yellow/green/
white/polka dot jersey with their team logos on it.

So, do the teams make their own jerseys and hope that they actually win the
right to wear them? And then there are the riders who wear the full kit,
like Brad McGee wearing the yellow jersey and yellow knicks.

Anyone?

--
Nick

[Justin Mansfield]

> - why do Phil and Paul (the commentators) say "there's no breeze to cool
> the riders today" when the peloton is going 50 km/h and therefore
> generating their own apparent wind? (or even more absurdly, if there
> were a strong tailwind, the riders would feel little or no relative
> breeze at all, so P&P's comment makes little apparent sense)

Dunno. Slipstreaming?


> - when a rider qualifies for several jerseys on one day, is he actually
> given one of each of those jerseys to keep? And the next day, when the
> lesser jerseys for which he qualifies can be worn by the riders coming
> second in those categories, do those riders get to keep those jerseys
> even though they weren't leading that competition at the time? And how
> do they decide which jersey is "lesser", e.g. what if a rider held both
> the green and the KOM?

If a rider holds more than one jersey, the official ranking order for
wearing them is yellow, green, polka dot, white. Check out www.letour.fr for
more info on the jerseys & how they are awarded.

[Shabby]

Here's my answers to some of your questions:

Q. Why do Phil and Paul (the commentators) say "there's no breeze to
cool the riders today" when the peloton is going 50 km/h and
therefore generating their own apparent wind?

R. They're really saying that the air is still and hence hot, whereas if
the weather is hot but a cool breeze is there (eg. riding along a
coast line), it feels much cooler.

S. What kind of gearing do the top sprinters use for the flat
stages? I'm pretty sure the top gear on my road bike (52 x 14)
would be useless
(S.a. way too low) at the 70km/h quoted for these guys in the
finish straight.

T. Unless you can spin really fast, a 52 x 14 might not even win a D
grade bunch sprint. They're using 53x11 to 55x11 type gears, with
cadences in the 100-130 range.

U. When finishing a time trial, why don't all the riders sprint for the
last few 100 metres (thus using up their alactic reserves, of which
you only have 30 seconds or so)? I'm talking about the real TT
contenders, not the guys saving themselves for later stages. And if
they've given everything they've got, why don't you see them throwing
up afterwards like real human beings? :-)

V. Did you see McGee after the time trial? He was practically delirious
and couldnt stand up. They use every last bit of strength, but its
hard to sprint when you've just ridden 6km at closeto your maximum.

W. Why in the flat-out sprint that Cookey won (Stage 2) are almost all
the riders still in the saddle (see http://www.sportal.com.au/photos-
/wallpaper/000114img800.jpg)?http://www.sportal.com.au/photos/wallpa-
per/000114img800.jpg)? That sprint was really close, and Cookey's
just crossed the line, so it's not because they have sat up already.

X. Try spinning above about 120 in the saddle. Very hard. Hence, you
always see track riders sprint out of the saddle to jump away, then
sit down once the cadence gets high. (Our track coach makes us do 400
metre flat out efforts out of the saddle, and towards the end it
becomes close to impossible unless you are in a huge gear). And BTW,
Cookie won by about almost a metre, which is not particularly close.
Hence, he had time to sit up for the photo on the line.



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[Harrow]

It seems to me the only guys who have a chance are the sprinters.
Everyone drafts in the peleton all day, and then the sprinters blast
away and get the glory.

Why do the other guys even bother turning up?

Harrow. :confused:



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[Peter Signorini]

"Harrow" > wrote in message
...
> It seems to me the only guys who have a chance are the sprinters.
> Everyone drafts in the peleton all day, and then the sprinters blast
> away and get the glory.
>
> Why do the other guys even bother turning up?

The Tour is, and has almost always been, a teams event ie. riders ride to
support and assist the rider in their team who has the best chance of a
victory (stage or overall).

As for the sprinters, in France they have these things called the Alps.
Watch the sprinters die once they get there.

I recall one of Lance Armstrongs wins last year in the Pyrenees IIRC. He was
riding with a couple of other riders (one may have been Virenque?) leading
them up the climb, with the peleton a little way back. After a good distance
up the climb, but 5km or so to go to the finish, Lance just stood on the
pedals and kept going. The distraught look on the face of the rider behind
him was very telling. The pace on the climb just burnt them out.

Cheers
Peter

Cheers
Peter

[g]

Harrow > wrote:

> It seems to me the only guys who have a chance are the sprinters.
> Everyone drafts in the peleton all day, and then the sprinters blast
> away and get the glory.
>
> Why do the other guys even bother turning up?
>
> Harrow. :confused:

Because sprinters are only good on flat stages, it is their only chance
for glory. The others are biding their time for the TT and the
mountains. A chance for non-sprinters (in flat stages) is to break away
and solo for 100 to 200km to the finish which guys have tried to do the
last few days without success. But over the years, some have succeeded.
Sprinters usually aren't any good at 100km+ solos. They can't win
overall either.

GK

[Peter Signorini]

"RMan" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Peter Signorini" > wrote in message
> ...
> [snip]>
> > I recall one of Lance Armstrongs wins last year in the Pyrenees IIRC. He
> was
> > riding with a couple of other riders <snip>
>
> I think that was on Mt Ventoux vs Beloki, after Beloki's one and only
> attempt to drop Lance. Like his "look" at Ulrich, a couple of years back,
a
> real defining moment.

Oh, that was it. Riding with Ulrich when he looked at him, then stood up and
took off. Ulrich tried to respond but didn't have a chance. Lance rode on to
win.

No point in riding in the peleton there, nor waiting for the 'final sprint'.
If you don't have a climber's stamina to keep attacking all the way up the
climb the final 100m sprint is meaningless.

Cheers
Peter

[John Staines]

Chipo (as he likes to be called) often goes home after the flat stages
have been completed as he hates the mountains.

Maybe that had something to do with him not receiving an invite to the
tour this year. Just a thought. :o)

Cheers

John

g wrote:
>
> Harrow > wrote:
>
> > It seems to me the only guys who have a chance are the sprinters.
> > Everyone drafts in the peleton all day, and then the sprinters blast
> > away and get the glory.
> >
> > Why do the other guys even bother turning up?
> >
> > Harrow. :confused:
>
> Because sprinters are only good on flat stages, it is their only chance
> for glory. The others are biding their time for the TT and the
> mountains. A chance for non-sprinters (in flat stages) is to break away
> and solo for 100 to 200km to the finish which guys have tried to do the
> last few days without success. But over the years, some have succeeded.
> Sprinters usually aren't any good at 100km+ solos. They can't win
> overall either.
>
> GK

[John Staines]

It's very early days I know....but I can't help but be impressed with
how Ullrich is performing atm....making this assumption on limited
footage I know but he's placing very well and looks very comfortable and
no hint of the podge around the old middle as some unflattering pics
have shown.

If he keeps this up he could well give Armstrong a run for his money as
some have predicted. Armstrong himself has said that Ullrich is a
threat.

I'm enjoying the TdF so far and can't wait to watch the full stages on
tv.

Cheers

John

Peter Signorini wrote:
>
> "RMan" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Peter Signorini" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > [snip]>
> > > I recall one of Lance Armstrongs wins last year in the Pyrenees IIRC. He
> > was
> > > riding with a couple of other riders <snip>
> >
> > I think that was on Mt Ventoux vs Beloki, after Beloki's one and only
> > attempt to drop Lance. Like his "look" at Ulrich, a couple of years back,
> a
> > real defining moment.
>
> Oh, that was it. Riding with Ulrich when he looked at him, then stood up and
> took off. Ulrich tried to respond but didn't have a chance. Lance rode on to
> win.
>
> No point in riding in the peleton there, nor waiting for the 'final sprint'.
> If you don't have a climber's stamina to keep attacking all the way up the
> climb the final 100m sprint is meaningless.
>
> Cheers
> Peter

[Andrew Swan]

Shabby wrote:
> Here's my answers to some of your questions:
Thanks indeedy.

> T. Unless you can spin really fast, a 52 x 14 might not even win a D
> grade bunch sprint. They're using 53x11 to 55x11 type gears, with
> cadences in the 100-130 range.
Ah, that explains why I never win any sprints (I'm actually in D grade).
I'd like to believe it's because I always run out of gears, yes, that
must be it. :-)

> <snip> Our track coach makes us do 400
> metre flat out efforts out of the saddle, and towards the end it
> becomes close to impossible unless you are in a huge gear).
Sounds like you're not that "Shabby" at all.

&roo
Honorary Life Member, "D" Grade

[Stefan Drüke]

am 09.07.03 schrieb Andrew:

>- why are the green, white, and polka-dot jerseys coloured that way (the
>explanation for yellow being widely known)?

yellow (or maillot jaune) it the rider who did the tour in the shortest
time

withe (maillot blanche) best of the young drives (up to 25 years) time
counts here

green (maillot verte) best sprinter, the one who has collected most points

withe with red dots ist for the best climber (will be intersseting, wenn
the alpes and pyraenees come up). The rider who gots most points at the
climbs will get ist.

if a has the yellow jersey and is leader eg. at young drivers he must wear
the yellow. The second will than wear the withe.

If a driver ist national champion, he must wear the national champion
trikot. if he is world champion on road racing he must wear the world
champion trikot. If someone ist world champion at time trail he must wear
the world champion time trail jersey at a time trail, but never at a
regular road race. If somone don't do it he must pay and perhaps he can be
expellet from the race - that in the rules for the Tour.

[Stefan Drüke]

am 09.07.03 schrieb Andrew:

>- why are the green, white, and polka-dot jerseys coloured that way (the
>explanation for yellow being widely known)?

yellow (or maillot jaune) it the rider who did the tour in the shortest
time

withe (maillot blanche) best of the young drives (up to 25 years) time
counts here

green (maillot verte) best sprinter, the one who has collected most points

withe with red dots ist for the best climber (will be intersseting, wenn
the alpes and pyraenees come up). The rider who gots most points at the
climbs will get ist.

if a has the yellow jersey and is leader eg. at young drivers he must wear
the yellow. The second will than wear the withe.

If a driver ist national champion, he must wear the national champion
trikot. if he is world champion on road racing he must wear the world
champion trikot. If someone ist world champion at time trail he must wear
the world champion time trail jersey at a time trail, but never at a
regular road race. If somone don't do it he must pay and perhaps he can be
expellet from the race - that in the rules for the Tour.

[Shabby]

Andrew Swan wrote:
> Ah, that explains why I never win any sprints (I'm actually in D grade).
> I'd like to believe it's because I always run out of gears, yes, that
> must be it. :-)



Just to clarify a bit, you need to be able to spin big gear. If you are
really running out of gears, get another cog. But a lot of people make
the mistake of putting it in a big gear and trying to wind it up. A
52x14 propels you at 60kph if you're doing 120rpm, so you might need a
12 or 13 to get you that slight bit faster, unless you like to spin.
(From memory my max speeds were around 65 in D grade crits when I won -
in a 53 x 13 which is around 120rpm.)

Your ideal sprint (assuming it's at least a couple of hundred metres
long) is to hit your maximum cadence on or very close to the line.
Sprinting isn't completely about going fast, you need to go fast at the
right moment. Too big a gear means you'll miss the start of the sprint
and it will all be over, too small means you have to change gears mid
sprint to stop going backwards.



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[RMan]

"Shabby" > wrote in message
...
> Andrew Swan wrote:
> > Ah, that explains why I never win any sprints (I'm actually in D
grade).
> > I'd like to believe it's because I always run out of gears, yes, that
> > must be it. :-)
>
>
>
> Just to clarify a bit, you need to be able to spin big gear. If you are
> really running out of gears, get another cog. But a lot of people make
> the mistake of putting it in a big gear and trying to wind it up. A
> 52x14 propels you at 60kph if you're doing 120rpm, so you might need a
> 12 or 13 to get you that slight bit faster, unless you like to spin.
> (From memory my max speeds were around 65 in D grade crits when I won -
> in a 53 x 13 which is around 120rpm.)
>
>

Man that is some D grade crit. 65 kmh sprint in most grades will score you
a win, sheesh, Cipo's max was approx 70 kmh at Zolder last year.

[RMan]

"Shabby" > wrote in message
...
> Andrew Swan wrote:
> > Ah, that explains why I never win any sprints (I'm actually in D
grade).
> > I'd like to believe it's because I always run out of gears, yes, that
> > must be it. :-)
>
>
>
> Just to clarify a bit, you need to be able to spin big gear. If you are
> really running out of gears, get another cog. But a lot of people make
> the mistake of putting it in a big gear and trying to wind it up. A
> 52x14 propels you at 60kph if you're doing 120rpm, so you might need a
> 12 or 13 to get you that slight bit faster, unless you like to spin.
> (From memory my max speeds were around 65 in D grade crits when I won -
> in a 53 x 13 which is around 120rpm.)
>
>

Man that is some D grade crit. 65 kmh sprint in most grades will score you
a win, sheesh, Cipo's max was approx 70 kmh at Zolder last year.

[Andrew Swan]

> white: best of the young drives (up to 25 years) time counts here
>
> green: best sprinter, the one who has collected most points
>
> white with red dots: is for the best climber (will be interesting, when
> the Alps and Pyrenees come up). The rider who gets most points at the
> climbs will get it.
Yes, but why are they white, green, and white with red dots? Why not
purple, brown, and blue with pink stripes (for example)? There must be
some historical reason for choosing those colours.

> If a driver is national champion, he must wear the national champion
> trikot. If he is world champion in road racing, he must wear the world
> champion trikot. If someone is world champion at time trial, he must wear
> the world champion time trial jersey at a time trial, but never at a
> regular road race.
Interesting. What about the riders who have the world champion "rainbow"
stripes only on their collars and the cuffs of their sleeves? What does
that mean? Are they world champions in non-road disciplines such as
track cycling or MTBing?

&roo

[Andrew Swan]

> white: best of the young drives (up to 25 years) time counts here
>
> green: best sprinter, the one who has collected most points
>
> white with red dots: is for the best climber (will be interesting, when
> the Alps and Pyrenees come up). The rider who gets most points at the
> climbs will get it.
Yes, but why are they white, green, and white with red dots? Why not
purple, brown, and blue with pink stripes (for example)? There must be
some historical reason for choosing those colours.

> If a driver is national champion, he must wear the national champion
> trikot. If he is world champion in road racing, he must wear the world
> champion trikot. If someone is world champion at time trial, he must wear
> the world champion time trial jersey at a time trial, but never at a
> regular road race.
Interesting. What about the riders who have the world champion "rainbow"
stripes only on their collars and the cuffs of their sleeves? What does
that mean? Are they world champions in non-road disciplines such as
track cycling or MTBing?

&roo

[g]

Andrew Swan > wrote:

> More TDF questions that just occurred to me after watching tonight's
> stage (Alpe D'Huez) and a glass or two of red (so please forgive any
> typos or "thinkos"):
>
> (1) why do Phil and Paul (bless 'em) talk about the importance of Lance
> having his postie teammates around him on the climbs, when AFAIK the
> riders are not doing the kinds of speeds where drafting is of any use?

20kph is fast enough to get draughting benefit - which the average speed
of a 39 min ascent of Alpe D'Huez.

> (2) how many of the riders in the Tour use speedos (the electronic kind,
> not dickstickers/sluggos you understand)? And the ones who do, is it
> really justifiable when they have their directeur sportif (DS) yelling
> in their earpiece all day, or is it purely out of habit (like the
> runners you see in the Olympic marathon who press the button on their
> digital watch when crossing the finishing line, not trusting the $3bn
> Seiko/Rolex timing system that's been installed purely to record their
> time to the nanosecond)?

I heard some riders dont race with a cycle computers, believe it your
not. Don't really need it in a race. Useful in training though.

> (3) talking of earpiece radios, do today's riders require less
> tactical/strategic nous than those of yesteryear, given that these days
> (thanks to TV, radio, and two-way comms with every rider) the DS knows
> everything going on in the race and can tell any team member what to do
> and when? What must it have been like in the old days when the peloton
> could only figure out who had gone up the road in a break by counting
> who was left?

There has been the debate about this over the years, the radio takes
away the necessity to think for themselves in races. Making tactical
decisions and team mates communicating with each other out on the road
used to be a part of pro racing. It still is at an amatuer level. Turn
pro and become a zombie, I don't see the sense in that either.

GK

[g]

Andrew Swan > wrote:

> More TDF questions that just occurred to me after watching tonight's
> stage (Alpe D'Huez) and a glass or two of red (so please forgive any
> typos or "thinkos"):
>
> (1) why do Phil and Paul (bless 'em) talk about the importance of Lance
> having his postie teammates around him on the climbs, when AFAIK the
> riders are not doing the kinds of speeds where drafting is of any use?

20kph is fast enough to get draughting benefit - which the average speed
of a 39 min ascent of Alpe D'Huez.

> (2) how many of the riders in the Tour use speedos (the electronic kind,
> not dickstickers/sluggos you understand)? And the ones who do, is it
> really justifiable when they have their directeur sportif (DS) yelling
> in their earpiece all day, or is it purely out of habit (like the
> runners you see in the Olympic marathon who press the button on their
> digital watch when crossing the finishing line, not trusting the $3bn
> Seiko/Rolex timing system that's been installed purely to record their
> time to the nanosecond)?

I heard some riders dont race with a cycle computers, believe it your
not. Don't really need it in a race. Useful in training though.

> (3) talking of earpiece radios, do today's riders require less
> tactical/strategic nous than those of yesteryear, given that these days
> (thanks to TV, radio, and two-way comms with every rider) the DS knows
> everything going on in the race and can tell any team member what to do
> and when? What must it have been like in the old days when the peloton
> could only figure out who had gone up the road in a break by counting
> who was left?

There has been the debate about this over the years, the radio takes
away the necessity to think for themselves in races. Making tactical
decisions and team mates communicating with each other out on the road
used to be a part of pro racing. It still is at an amatuer level. Turn
pro and become a zombie, I don't see the sense in that either.

GK

[Scotty]

and which climbs would these be?? they sure don't average 30+ up Alpe DHuez
or the Galibier

average of low-mid 20s yes..and yes drafting comes into effect at these
speeds and thats fast enough!!

"stu" > wrote in message
u...
> >(1) why do Phil and Paul (bless 'em) talk about the importance of Lance
> >having his postie teammates around him on the climbs, when AFAIK the
> >riders are not doing the kinds of speeds where drafting is of any use?
>
> these guys climb at 30kph+ so drafting still helps
>
>

[Scotty]

and which climbs would these be?? they sure don't average 30+ up Alpe DHuez
or the Galibier

average of low-mid 20s yes..and yes drafting comes into effect at these
speeds and thats fast enough!!

"stu" > wrote in message
u...
> >(1) why do Phil and Paul (bless 'em) talk about the importance of Lance
> >having his postie teammates around him on the climbs, when AFAIK the
> >riders are not doing the kinds of speeds where drafting is of any use?
>
> these guys climb at 30kph+ so drafting still helps
>
>

[hippy]

"Shabby" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
> > Man that is some D grade crit. 65 kmh sprint in most grades will score
> > you a win, sheesh, Cipo's max was approx 70 kmh at Zolder last year.
>
> D grade @ Glenvale Crescent, almost totally flat criterium course with a
> long wide finish. I had maximum speeds in the low 60's for a number of
> weeks until I got a win. Averages are around 37kph.

I just looked over some of my HR files and most D grade max speeds
for me were just over 50kph with averages around the low 30kph mark.
Some max speeds were over 60kph but not many.

hippy

[hippy]

"Shabby" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
> > Man that is some D grade crit. 65 kmh sprint in most grades will score
> > you a win, sheesh, Cipo's max was approx 70 kmh at Zolder last year.
>
> D grade @ Glenvale Crescent, almost totally flat criterium course with a
> long wide finish. I had maximum speeds in the low 60's for a number of
> weeks until I got a win. Averages are around 37kph.

I just looked over some of my HR files and most D grade max speeds
for me were just over 50kph with averages around the low 30kph mark.
Some max speeds were over 60kph but not many.

hippy

[Shabby]

wrote:
> (1) why do Phil and Paul (bless 'em) talk about the importance of
> Lance having his postie teammates around him on the climbs, when
> AFAIK the riders are not doing the kinds of speeds where drafting
> is of any use?



It's also a display of the teams strength to have them visible at the
front, dictating terms to the rest of the bunch, plus there's a benefit
in having pure climbers set a tough pace which will stop others from
feeling like they're strong enough to attack. (Any leader is most
vunerable when they are subjected to a number of attacks one after the
other, as it takes more effort to chase down and close the gap than to
ride tempo.)

It's interesting to note that Indurain never actually chased down
attacks, he just rode faster up the hill than his rivals (faster
average). Lance is a different style of leader though...



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[Mayhem]

On 15 Jul 2003 13:00:13 +0950, Shabby >
wrote:

> wrote:
> > (1) why do Phil and Paul (bless 'em) talk about the importance of
> > Lance having his postie teammates around him on the climbs, when
> > AFAIK the riders are not doing the kinds of speeds where drafting
> > is of any use?
>
>
>
>It's also a display of the teams strength to have them visible at the
>front, dictating terms to the rest of the bunch, plus there's a benefit
>in having pure climbers set a tough pace which will stop others from
>feeling like they're strong enough to attack. (Any leader is most
>vunerable when they are subjected to a number of attacks one after the
>other, as it takes more effort to chase down and close the gap than to
>ride tempo.)

Your last sentence is the most relevant. The tempo is what it is all
about. The domestiques protect the leader by maintaining a tempo
which, hopefully, stops needless attacks and allows the leader to pace
himself to the tempo of his domestiques.

If you have 3 or 4 guys taking turns peddling like crazy while your
leader sits behind them, it means very few will have the ability to
just accelerate away to the win.

>
>It's interesting to note that Indurain never actually chased down
>attacks, he just rode faster up the hill than his rivals (faster
>average). Lance is a different style of leader though...

Indurain = Ullrich on speed... <grin>

[Scotty]

well Pantanis record up Alpe d'Huez is 37 minutes something or other
(Armstrongs is 38'01 a couple of years ago) and the climb is 14.1kms
long...so that gives an average of about 22.2 kms/hr for Armstrong and a bit
faster for Pantani.

Its steeper at the bottom of Alp d'Huez but US Postal were motoring up it if
you saw the coverage (would hate to see how fast they were going) and a lot
of riders got shelled. Maybe they were in the 30s then.

If you saw Virenque suffering he would have still been in the mid-high teens
to finish 8 minutes down on the Mayo..still a good effort!! these guys are
super human in comparison to us mere plebs.


"stu" > wrote in message
u...
> >and which climbs would these be?? they sure don't average 30+ up Alpe
DHuez
> >or the Galibier
> >
> >average of low-mid 20s yes..and yes drafting comes into effect at these
> >speeds and thats fast enough!!
> l never said "Alpe DHuez" or "average". But as they average 20kph up one
of
> the hardest climbs in the tour. What are there minimum and maximum speeds
up
> the climb?
> what was there average up the first climb of the day?
>
>

[Stefan Drüke]

am 14.07.03 schrieb Andrew:

>Yes, but why are they white, green, and white with red dots? Why not
>purple, brown, and blue with pink stripes (for example)? There must be
>some historical reason for choosing those colours.

I'm not sure, perhaps you'll find some informations at http://
www.letour.fr