Re: More Hate Mail from a Typical Mountain Biker

[Stephen Baker]

Ken says:

>Sheesh. Arguing with zealots is such a waste of time.

If you can make the next logical step from there, and live by it, you will be
doing well, Grasshopper....

Steve

[Justine7458]

Mike Vandeman wrote:
> At 10:05 AM 10/21/03 -0700, Mike Stewart wrote:
> >At 06:31 PM 10/17/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >>1. You said I exaggerated. That's a lie.
> >No, that's a subjective assessment.
> "I think you exaggerated" would be a "subjective assessment". "You
> exaggerated" is a lie. It doesn't surprize me that a mountain biker
> dioesn't know the difference between truth and lies.
> >>2. You just agreed with me: "mountain bikes don't warrant the
> >> attention..."
> means that the damage they do is acceptable.
> >You continue to miss the point of relative severity here.
> As I said, you continue to rationalize mountain biking by claiming that
> it's less damaging than something else. Is burglary okay, just because
> it's less harmful than murder? Of course not!
> >>3. You threatened to join IMBA, to retaliate against me, and even
> >> carried out
> your threat.
> >Technically, a threat is an expression of intent. Since I had
> >already joined
> IMBA before responding to you, I was not expressing intent but rather
> reporting the facts. If you find it threatening for someone to join the
> IMBA, then I suppose that's your choice.
> You used it as a threat, to intimidate me. Of course, it didn't work. :)
> >>In other words, you are a 100% typical mountain biker.
> >There is no such thing. Some mountain bikers are honest and pure
> >and always
> try to do the right thing, and some are selfish inconsiderate assholes.
> Most are somewhere in between. Just like life. Surely you understand
> this reality of statistical variation but choose to ignore it because
> stereotypes are so much simpler.
> 100% of the mountain bikers I have met have lied. That is statistically
> improbable, but true. It proves that mountain bikers are different.
> >>If you weren't so busy lying, you might get some respect. If you pass
> >>my email
> to your parents, as you promised (mountain bikers are NOTORIOUSLY
> unreliable), you will see that they are very disappointed.
> >I hate to disrupt your exaggerated stereotype of unreliability, but
> >here's part
> of my mother's response: "You, as a son, are not only a thrill but the
> farthest thing from a disappointment. You are considered as a kind and
> caring person in regards to the environment and others." Of course, she
> may not realize what a belligerent, aggressive, unreliable, lying,
> nature hater I am...
> True. Mothers wear rose-colored glasses, especially when outsiders are
> concerned. I'm not surprized that she doesn't understand the damage that
> mountain biking does. She has YOU for a teacher.
> >>No parent I have ever met would teach their kid to lie. You do it,
> >>because you
> want to get your way. Mountain bikers are like that: belligerent,
> aggressive, and dishonest.
> >>I don't have time to teach all mountain bikers ethics, but I will
> >>give you ONE
> more chance to prove that you have a shred of integrity, by how you
> respond. Good luck.
> >In the end, I do appreciate what folks like you say and do for the
> >sake of the
> environment, that's why I joined the Sierra Club, and give money to
> Greenpeace, and even voted for
> Mr.Nader in the last election. But if Greenpeace spent their time and
> energy trying to ban scuba diving because divers often insist on
> touching marine life with their bare hands (which can cause disease
> and even death in some species), then I would stop supporting them.
> As I said, you value human pleasure above wildlife protection -- like
> ALL mountain bikers.
> > It's not because scuba diving is harmless to the environment,
> > but rather
> because it is more important to address the unconscionable mass
> polluting of the oceans by government and mega-corporations around the
> world, It's all about relative severity. Until you get that concept, I'm
> afraid you will just continue to be a frustrated and angry man (not a
> lie, just another subjective assessment, take it or leave it).
> I just tell the truth -- something you have yet to learn, although you
> should have known by kindergarten.
> >Have a good day.
> >- Mike
> Mike Stewart > wrote: Yep, you got me. I'm one of
> those mountain bikers. I didn't mention it because I don't think its
> relevant, not because I wasn't being honest enough to admit it.
> Actually, I have two mountain bikes. Twice the evil.
> I am curious as to how you figured my mountain bike status given that:
> (1) I didn't lie to you. Your letters did frighten me, and I did join
> the IMBA immediately after reading them.
> (2) I didn't imply that what mountain bikes are doing is ok, that's your
> inference. I only pointed out that in the greater reality of
> environmental issues, mountain bikes do not warrant the attention
> you are giving them.
> (3) I didn't threaten you.
> My parents must be pretty disappointed? Well I'm sure they're not
> thrilled with me but I wouldn't go so far as to say they are
> disappointed. I'll forward your email to them anyway, just to make sure.
> Still, I don't see what they have to do with this. Seems to me like a
> pretty desperate attempt on your part to make me feel bad about myself
> or something.
> Happy Friday.
> - Mike
> At 06:01 PM 10/16/2003 -0700, you wrote: One way you can tell that you
> are dealing with a mountain biker is that:
> (1) They lie. A LOT.
> (2) They tell you that they aren't as bad as someone else, implying that
> what they are doing is therefore okay.
> (3) They threaten you in some way. I guess you must be a mountain biker,
> although you weren't honest enough to admit it. Didn't your parents
> teach you to tell the truth? Most parents DO, you know. They must be
> pretty disappointed....
> Mike Stewart > wrote: Mike - Just ran across some
> of your letters on the web regarding mountain biking. http://home.pac-
> bell.net/mjvande/wc14.htmhttp://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/wc14.htm htt-
> p://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/mtb121.htmhttp://home.pacbell.net/mjvand-
> e/mtb121.htm
> "One look at a mountain bike is enough to tell you that it is up to no
> good: the knobby tires are designed to rip up the soil, and the
> suspension systems are designed to insulate the rider from the shocks,
> as they beat the trail to a pulp."
> "We are literally creating a generation that is too lazy to walk..."
> Frightening stuff. Truly, something needs to be done. Your painfully
> exaggerated descriptions of mountain bikes and their irresponsible,
> environmentally unconscious owners has already motivated me to join the
> IMBA. I do share your environmental concerns in general, but your focus
> on mountain bikes as a nature damaging component is like complaining
> that kids are spitting in the river downstream from the Dow chemical
> plant. Your target cause is just, but your aim is senseless.
> - Mike
> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans
> ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting
> auto dependence and road construction.)
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvandehttp://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
> ===
> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans
> ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting
> auto dependence and road construction.)
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvandehttp://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Let's argue about something meaningful, like Campy vs. Shimano, Ksyrium
vs. Zipp, steel vs. carbon or Coke vs. Pepsi.








--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
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[Chris Glidden]

"Justine7458" wrote
<SNIP>
> Let's argue about something meaningful, like Campy vs. Shimano, Ksyrium
> vs. Zipp, steel vs. carbon or Coke vs. Pepsi.
>
Or snipping meaningless content vs. not snipping...

cg

[Sorni]

"Justine7458" > wrote in message
...
> Mike Vandeman wrote:

{SEE THIS??? THIS IS A SNIP!!!}

> Let's argue about something meaningful, like Campy vs. Shimano, Ksyrium
> vs. Zipp, steel vs. carbon or Coke vs. Pepsi.

So you left hundreds of lines of Vandedrivel just to tack on that tacky
little...uh, tack-on?

> >--------------------------<
> Posted via cyclingforums.com

Now THERE's a shock.

Bill "maroon convention around here lately" S.

[Mike Vandeman]

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:02:16 GMT, "Sorni" > wrote:

.."Justine7458" > wrote in message
...
..> Mike Vandeman wrote:
..
..{SEE THIS??? THIS IS A SNIP!!!}
..
..> Let's argue about something meaningful, like Campy vs. Shimano, Ksyrium
..> vs. Zipp, steel vs. carbon or Coke vs. Pepsi.
..
..So you left hundreds of lines of Vandedrivel just to tack on that tacky
..little...uh, tack-on?

Yes. You guys are BY FAR my best publicists.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

[Stephen Baker]

Jeff says:

>Oh wait, I am not a biker so I never lie, which means you are not talking to
>me.

Did you say something? ;-)

Steve "well, SOMEONE had to beat Mikey to it....."

[Mike Vandeman]

On 23 Oct 2003 20:21:54 GMT, (Stephen Baker) wrote:

..Jeff says:
..
..>Oh wait, I am not a biker so I never lie, which means you are not talking to
..>me.
..
..Did you say something? ;-)
..
..Steve "well, SOMEONE had to beat Mikey to it....."

Imitation is the highest compliment. Thanks. :)
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

[Stephen Baker]

Gary S says:

>Or, are you the source of all truth?

Do you answer your own questions ALL the time, Gary?
;-))

[DaveWV]

Can any one please explain why any of you respond to Vandeman's idiotic
posts? Its like arguing with a tree stump (only a tree stump is more
intelligent.) He is a waste of bandwidth and time. :mad: :cool:
--------------Dave



--
Come ride in West Virginia!

>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Colin Swan]

On 25 Oct 2003 06:11:21 +0950, DaveWV >
wrote:

>Can any one please explain why any of you respond to Vandeman's idiotic
>posts? Its like arguing with a tree stump (only a tree stump is more
>intelligent.) He is a waste of bandwidth and time. :mad: :cool:
>--------------Dave

I actually thought we'd cracked it in this thread - it was 3 days
without a response, and then Mike responded himself!

Hey everybody, if you ignore him, he might even go away!


--
Colin Swan

[Mike Vandeman]

On 25 Oct 2003 06:11:21 +0950, DaveWV > wrote:

..Can any one please explain why any of you respond to Vandeman's idiotic
..posts? Its like arguing with a tree stump (only a tree stump is more
..intelligent.) He is a waste of bandwidth and time. :mad: :cool:

Then why did you post this drivel? Hypocrite. :)


..--------------Dave

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

[Mike Vandeman]

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:42:42 +0100, Colin Swan <colin AT nildram DOT net> wrote:

..On 25 Oct 2003 06:11:21 +0950, DaveWV >
..wrote:
..
..>Can any one please explain why any of you respond to Vandeman's idiotic
..>posts? Its like arguing with a tree stump (only a tree stump is more
..>intelligent.) He is a waste of bandwidth and time. :mad: :cool:
..>--------------Dave
..
..I actually thought we'd cracked it in this thread - it was 3 days
..without a response, and then Mike responded himself!
..
..Hey everybody, if you ignore him, he might even go away!

Now THERE'S an original thought. :)
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande