Higher cadence?

[joona]

I'd like to be able to get my cadence a bit higher. I think I can now do
about 100 rpm for some time but I'd like to be able to do something like
150 rpm for some distance.

So, any tips? Especially guys like cyberbellum who have been biker's
before. I've already noticed that my cadence on bike has improved quite
a bit after starting to uni, but I'd like more speed on the uni too.
Should I just ride a lot of up- and downhills to build a little more
muscle? Or should I just wait and see what happens while I ride more?


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[cyberbellum]

joona wrote:
> *
> So, any tips? Especially guys like cyberbellum who have been biker's
> before.
> *

Assuming you have a bike, set it up to be a fixed gear (Sheldon Brown's
site has great instructions). Using a smallish gear - 44X19 or 42X18
are good (equivalent to a 64" diameter unicycle wheel) Using
cleats/straps or clipless pedals, try to outsprint your friends on
downhills. I used to do this for winter training. I had to spin around
210 rpm to do it, but I managed to routinely outsprint my lesser friends
sprinting with 53X12s (equivalent to a 121" wheel). The only reason I
was able to hit 40 mph with that little gear was the steep hill and lots
of practice, otherwise I would have grenaded my knees.

Ok, so what goes on when you spin high cadences?

1) Conciously pulling up your knee on the back of the stroke becomes
critical. Think high-stepping. If you don't the pedal has to shove
your leg up on the back stroke which makes the bike shudder and you
bounce around a lot. The muscle that performs this maneuver is on the
front of the thigh, near your hip on the outside. Put your hand on that
spot and raise your knee high while standing and you'll feel it. If you
see this muscle overdeveloped on a bike racer it's a good indication
that he's got a sprint.

2) At very high cadences your knees start to come apart. Right after
the top of the stroke your pedal pulls your lower leg down while your
thighs are still moving up, which separates your thigh bone from your
lower leg bones. It's noticable, and very scary. This fear makes your
legs quick. It develops reflexes within the leg to push the knee down
rapidly after the top of the stroke. The key muscle here is the
hamstring on the back of your leg, with some help from the quads.

3) Set your seat a little higher, put the pedal spindle under the ball
of your foot and use your ankles more. "Twiddle" the pedals in round
circles instead of stomping them. Visualize the roundness of the motion
and make your toes follow. It might take a few months to get into the
zone, but when you do you can make round, sycnronized circles without
the pedals.

4) On the fixed gear, ride as fast as you can without bouncing or
rocking your hips. Stay at that speed and get used to the motion. When
you can up the speed a bit without rocking do so.
Needless to say, proper bike fit, a good seat and quality cycling shorts
are essentials, otherwise this is a grinding torture.

Ok, enough about bikes.

I made one ride last night of over 600 feet on my 24" yuni! That fat
hookworm tire is SOOO nice!!

I'm having trouble riding faster than 90 rpm myself, but only because my
balance is still precarious. On a typical ride my cadence ranges between
-10 and 120 rpm, and I wander all over the parking lane (25 feet wide).
I can now manage a few wide sweeping turns, and twice I threaded my way
through a 10 foot gap between a brand new Mercedes and a 6" diameter
steel post. Without seriously damaging either one! Whoo Hoo!!

(Perhaps it's just the holiday, but it seems like no one wants to park
where I'm practicing anymore... I'd like to think they are being polite
and giving me some room, but it's more likely that they're concerned
about the old fat guy who wobbles dangerously close to their cars with a
strange looking metal object. )

Good luck with the spinning,

Tim


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[joona]

Thanks a lot Tim.

I've been trying to get my spinning a bit rounder for a while.
Unicycling might have something to do with this. I think it has helped
on the higher cadence on my bike. I probably can't go for clipless
pedals since I haven't got the money for shoes and pedals right now. I
usually like to ride on a bit rougher ground with my bike(MTB), but I
think I might give a go for the fixed gear. It sounds fun. I'll see what
happens.


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[U-Turn]

I've never ridden a fixed gear bicycle but I'm pretty sure that one-foot
riding on the uni has helped my cadence by improving the circularity of
my stroke. It forces the pedaling leg to lift itself on the backstroke
rather than have the other leg lift it. It's important to develop both
sides.

Also watching races at NAUCC helped my mind see what a fast cadence
looks like.

Most of the time, however, I personally don't work on cadence, more
instead on control and slower riding.


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[Klaas Bil]

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 09:32:41 -0600, joona
> wrote:

>I'd like to be able to get my cadence a bit higher.

I can get a cadence of 160 - 170 (averaged over a one minute count) on
my 20" but only about 140 on my 28/29". Both with 125 mm cranks. I
have experienced that one of the things that keeps my cadence down is
fear of falling. I once lost it on my 29-er going about 22 km/h and
NEARLY did a big faceplant on tarmac. On the 20" I'm sure I could run
it out even at 180 rpm (which I can't do yet except maybe in bursts).

So the advice to get cadence higher would seem to use a smaller wheel.
But that contrasts with what seems your actual motive: higher speed.
If you are at 100 rpm now I say keep practicing. Like cyberbellum
said: circular strokes (with smooth power delivery), and ankling. The
way I implement the latter is to try and make my thighs move less, and
my ankles figured out what to do themselves.

I'm sure you can up that 100 significantly. Consider a helmet and
gloves / wrist protectors.

I don't think high cadence (on a regular uni) is a power issue, so
uphills won't help.

Klaas Bil - Newsgroup Addict
--
I like things that are either curved or tapered. - Steve Howard

[Mikefule]

I think the simple answer is to ride miles and miles and miles and
miles.

On a unicycle, your realistic forward speed is limited by your ability
to recover from a 'trip'. By 'trip' I mean that the uni starts to tip
forwards, usually because something has slowed down the wheel. So the
wheel hits an obstacle, slows down ever so slightly, momentum makes the
frame and rider tip forwards, and the rider has to accelerate the wheel
to regain control.

The nearer you are to your maximum possible speed, the less margin for
error you have. The uni only needs to 'trip' very slightly and you
don't have enough in reserve to accelerate out of it. Secondly, because
you are going faster, things happen faster, and you have less time to
react.

But if you ride miles and miles and miles, you develop a smoother pedal
action and you feel more at home on the uni. You also learn to read the
ground ahead of you better, and adjust your weight and balance in
anticipation. So that reduces the likelihood of a trip, and increases
your ability to pedal out of one.

Until you have the confidence to accelerate out of a trip, you will
always hold back a bit - especially on a bigger wheel.

Yes, muscular development and spinning practice will help, of course.
However, I imagine that most unicyclists seldom ride the distances that
need this. Just get confident on the wheel and you will be able to go
faster for longer.

As with all aspects of unicycling, my philosophy is that you should
learn not to fall off. The more circumstances there are in which you
don't fall off, the better your riding becomes.


--
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[gerblefranklin]

I agree with mike, except I also think a limit is lateral wobble from
pedalling a uni too fast. I do uni b-ball, and most races with friends
on my trials uni, and the bigger limit is my wheel wanting to wobble,
not my ability to recover from a trip. When I raced people at a camp I
went to, the reseon I did well in the sprints (read: basically won) was
because I was in control of my wobble, while others were getting really
high rpms, but they'd eventually fall because of their wobble.
Basically, I left myself a bit of safety room in my wobble, while others
went all-out. The wobble is less noticeable on larger wheels and with
shorter cranks w/ a zero q-factor.


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[joona]

I usually ride my 24x3 and 150mm lascos. And the wheel doesn't wobble
noticeably.


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[juergen_brauckmann]

I'm answering not because I'm any good with high rpms, but because
nobody mentioned the following points up to now:-) Sorry if they are too
obvious... .

- Hold onto the seat, it makes a big difference

- Crank length is also important, long cranks are not good for high
rpms. 150mm cranks might be too long (I don`t know how well smaller
cranks work with a heavy 24x3 tire...)

Regards,
Juergen


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[phil]

joona wrote:
> *I usually ride my 24x3 and 150mm lascos. And the wheel doesn't wobble
> noticeably. *

I recall watching Joe Rowing go for broke on an onza trials uni in
London. With the long cranks it was a most comical experience, legs
flying all over the place, the whole thing wobbling side to side
dramatically until he lost it and came off running. Those things
definitely aren't designed for speed... :)

Phil


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[onewheeldave]

Mikefule wrote:
> *
> On a unicycle, your realistic forward speed is limited by your ability
> to recover from a 'trip'. By 'trip' I mean that the uni starts to tip
> forwards, usually because something has slowed down the wheel. So the
> wheel hits an obstacle, slows down ever so slightly, momentum makes
> the frame and rider tip forwards, and the rider has to accelerate the
> wheel to regain control.
>
> *

I was wondering what a good name for those things would be :)

I experience those and they are difficult to sort out when going
faster.

I have a Reeder handle on my muni and find it helps a lot when going
fast, it seems to help with sensitivity i.e. 'feeling the road' and also
with recovery.

It's difficult to assess how much it helps but I've noticed that I feel
a lot happier going fast when I'm holding the handle.


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[onewheeldave]

Mikefule wrote:
> *
> On a unicycle, your realistic forward speed is limited by your ability
> to recover from a 'trip'. By 'trip' I mean that the uni starts to tip
> forwards, usually because something has slowed down the wheel. So the
> wheel hits an obstacle, slows down ever so slightly, momentum makes
> the frame and rider tip forwards, and the rider has to accelerate the
> wheel to regain control.
>
> *

I was wondering what a good name for those things would be :)

I experience those and they are difficult to sort out when going
faster.

I have a Reeder handle on my muni and find it helps a lot when going
fast, it seems to help with sensitivity i.e. 'feeling the road' and also
with recovery.

It's difficult to assess how much it helps but I've noticed that I feel
a lot happier going fast when I'm holding the handle.


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[Klaas Bil]

joona wrote:
> *I'd like to be able to get my cadence a bit higher.*

I can get a cadence of 160 - 170 (averaged over a one minute count) on
my 20" but only about 140 on my 28/29". Both with 125 mm cranks. I have
experienced that one of the things that keeps my cadence down is fear of
falling. I once lost it on my 29-er going about 22 km/h and NEARLY did a
big faceplant on tarmac. On the 20" I'm sure I could run it out even at
180 rpm (which I can't do yet except maybe in bursts).

So the advice to get cadence higher would seem to use a smaller wheel.
But that contrasts with what seems your actual motive: higher speed. If
you are at 100 rpm now I say keep practicing. Like cyberbellum said:
circular strokes (with smooth power delivery), and ankling. The way I
implement the latter is to try and make my thighs move less, and my
ankles figured out what to do themselves.

I'm sure you can up that 100 significantly. Consider a helmet and gloves
/ wrist protectors.

I don't think high cadence (on a regular uni) is a power issue, so
uphills won't help.

Klaas Bil

(Reposted. Gilby will know why.)


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[joona]

Klaas Bil wrote:
> *I'm sure you can up that 100 significantly. Consider a helmet and
> gloves / wrist protectors.
>
> I don't think high cadence (on a regular uni) is a power issue, so
> uphills won't help.
>
> Klaas Bil *


I'm using Crazy Creek wist pads and I jsut bought a Bell X-Ray helmet
today(I highly recommend this, it's really comfortable). Also knee pads,
and if I know it's going to be slippery, I also wear elbow pads.

Well, it probably isn't a power issue for me too much (I used to play
volleyball, and because I'm short I had to be able to jump high). So I
it's probably practice-practice-practice for me.:)

edit. And I can do higher cadence than 100 rpm, probably 130-140 rpm for
a while but I'd like to be able to ride longer distances with cadence
like this.


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[Mikefule]

First: wheel wobble. The ways to eliminate this are: ride miles and
miles, get shorter cranks, ride miles and miles, have a bigger wheel,
and ride miles and miles. I never ever notice wheel wobble on any of my
unis at high speed. I used to have problems on the 26 with 170s - so
much so that I reverted to 150mm cranks. But then, I'm a short-legged
midget.

Second: power. I really don't think that power or strength are issues
on the flat on any normal uni set up. On a 24 with (say) 125mm cranks,
your foot movement:ground speed ratio is about the same as on a bicycle
in a 27 inch gear. That's say, a 700 c road bike with a 1:1 gear ratio.
It isn't power you need, it's coordination, nerve, and stamina. So
substantial muscular development might be a bad thing.

In fact, sometimes I find I ride faster up a **slight** hill than on the
flat. As the Vogon guard nearly said, "Resistance is useful". Going
uphill, there is no doubt which way you'll fall if you UPD. The set up
is more stable. You have something against which to push, so your legs
don't flail wildly.


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A young girl was blown out to sea on a set of inflatable teeth then
rescued by a man on an inflatable lobster. A coastguard spokesman
commented, "This sort of thing is all too common". (The Times)
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[Mikefule]

First: wheel wobble. The ways to eliminate this are: ride miles and
miles, get shorter cranks, ride miles and miles, have a bigger wheel,
and ride miles and miles. I never ever notice wheel wobble on any of my
unis at high speed. I used to have problems on the 26 with 170s - so
much so that I reverted to 150mm cranks. But then, I'm a short-legged
midget.

Second: power. I really don't think that power or strength are issues
on the flat on any normal uni set up. On a 24 with (say) 125mm cranks,
your foot movement:ground speed ratio is about the same as on a bicycle
in a 27 inch gear. That's say, a 700 c road bike with a 1:1 gear ratio.
It isn't power you need, it's coordination, nerve, and stamina. So
substantial muscular development might be a bad thing.

In fact, sometimes I find I ride faster up a **slight** hill than on the
flat. As the Vogon guard nearly said, "Resistance is useful". Going
uphill, there is no doubt which way you'll fall if you UPD. The set up
is more stable. You have something against which to push, so your legs
don't flail wildly.


--
Mikefule - Roland Hope School of Unicycling

A young girl was blown out to sea on a set of inflatable teeth then
rescued by a man on an inflatable lobster. A coastguard spokesman
commented, "This sort of thing is all too common". (The Times)
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[joona]

Mikefule wrote:
> *I'm a short-legged midget.*


So am I.


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[joona]

Mikefule wrote:
> *I'm a short-legged midget.*


So am I.


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[GizmoDuck]

Me three. Don't let short legs hold you back though!

I think the most useful thing I found for maintaining a high cadence is
to stay relaxed. Keep your upper body as still as possible and let the
wheel spin under you. If you're too tense you will not be able to
correct your balance as quickly and end up using even more energy to
compensate. Do not fight with your unicycle especially downhill- just
let it spin and look well ahead.

Oh, another thing that is nice to have is a big platform pedals for
stability.

Good luck!

Ken :)


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[Rowan]

joona wrote:
> *I'm using Crazy Creek wist pads and I jsut bought a Bell X-Ray helmet
> today(I highly recommend this, it's really comfortable). Also knee
> pads, and if I know it's going to be slippery, I also wear elbow
> pads.*
If you want to go faster, ditch the safety gear, it's only slowing you
down. All those pads must weigh a ton, and they surely contribute to
wind resistance. Try dangling some raw meat from your unicycle, and ride
like the wind while savage hounds nip at your heels, surely this will
increase your cadence.


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[joemarshall]

Rowan wrote:
> *If you want to go faster, ditch the safety gear, it's only slowing
> you down. All those pads must weigh a ton, and they surely contribute
> to wind resistance. Try dangling some raw meat from your unicycle, and
> ride like the wind while savage hounds nip at your heels, surely this
> will increase your cadence. *


I once had a major "trip" moment on my coker when I was riding as fast
as I could about 3 metres in front of a large lorry. That was really
really scary.

I definately agree with platform pedals.

Also, to ride fast, practice riding slowly without wobble and then speed
it up.

Relax your body is a good one. You know you're getting good at distance
riding when you start falling asleep whilst riding. If you're thinking
about riding much, you're not relaxing enough.

Joe


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