125 mm cranks and Schwalbe Big Apple

[Uni]

Hi all,

I took my Yuni 29" with 2.35" Schwalbe Big Apple and 125 mm cranks out for
the first ride today. As I expected, the 29" uni felt much "twitchier" than
the uni I'm used to, a 24" Miyata Deluxe with 127 mm cranks. I also
discovered that UPDs on the 29" uni are harder to run out of than UPDs on
the 24" uni.

My question is whether the "twitchy" feel of the 125 mm cranks will go away
with practice, or if 125 mm cranks always be more difficult to control (even
on smooth level surfaces) than 150 mm cranks. I selected 125 mm cranks for
speed, but I also want the relative flywheel effect of the Big Apple so that
I don't have to concentrate on the uni every moment. Will the 125 mm cranks
negate the flywheel effect of the Big Apple?

Any comments are appreciated.

[m_extreme_uni]

I use my 700c wheel with 89, and 102mm cranks, and it flies. Of course
its always going to feel more twitchy than a 24 inch with longer cranks,
but you have to understand that that is part of why it can go so fast.
Alot of the uncomfortable feeling will go away though, after a few
rides.

-Ryan


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[Klaas Bil]

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 16:55:05 -0500, "Uni" <Nospamforme> wrote:

>My question is whether the "twitchy" feel of the 125 mm cranks will go away
>with practice, or if 125 mm cranks always be more difficult to control (even
>on smooth level surfaces) than 150 mm cranks.

Both. It will feel less twitchy with practice but I think 150 mm will
always give you more control. I have ridden my Big Apple 29'er with
150, 125 and 110 mm cranks. For now I prefer the 125, due to the
larger control I'm actually faster on 125 than on 110 (fear factor).
But I might move to 110 after more practice. I need to invest in some
more padding first, though.

Klaas Bil - Newsgroup Addict
--
"Friends don't let friends drop to flat - Kris Holm, discussing large drops to flat ground."

[juergen_brauckmann]

Uni wrote:
> *
> My question is whether the "twitchy" feel of the 125 mm cranks will go
> away
> with practice, or if 125 mm cranks always be more difficult to control
> (even
> on smooth level surfaces) than 150 mm cranks.
> *


Hm, when you say "difficult to control": When I try to ride fast (well,
fast for me:-), I find longer cranks harder to control. When I try to
ride slow, difficult terrain, shorter cranks are harder to control. For
me it`s some kind of function which has the surface and the speed as
input variables:-)

I finished my 29"er project last weekend; I have a Pichler frame
<http://www.pichlerrad.de>, Schwalbe Big Apple 2.35" and 125mm cranks.
The hub is also from Pichler, and I built the wheel myself.

I rode it only on smooth ground for now, and I really like it. Mounting
is still difficult for me, I need 2 or 3 attempts before I succeed.

Regards,
Juergen


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[cjd]

I put 110's on my Pashley 29er (back when it was a 26er) and it only
took me 3-4 awkward rides to get used to them. I find the short cranks
require more patience from your brain stem -- you don't get instant
gratification when you make a correction, but the correction does
happen.

Now I'll go back to suppressing my Big Apple envy...


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[nathan]

The "right" crank length for a given wheel depends a lot on the rider
and the terrain. For Muni on a 29" wheel, I can't imagine you'd want
shorter than 125mm but for road rides, 100mm might be a lot faster. It
all depends on you and what you like. If you practice riding with
shorter cranks you'll certainly get used to it. For instance, I used to
think idling a Coker with 152mm cranks was really hard. Now it's not
hard with 125mm since I'm used to it.

---Nathan


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[Uni]

Thanks to all who replied. I'd like to use this uni for city as well as
distance riding, so let me ask the question in a different way:

Is a 29" uni with 125 mm cranks practical for riding in a city (manuevering
on sidewalks, passing pedestrians, crossing streets)? Or does the relative
lack of control at slow speeds from the 125 mm cranks make this a bad idea?

"Uni" <Nospamforme> wrote in message
...
> Hi all,
>
> I took my Yuni 29" with 2.35" Schwalbe Big Apple and 125 mm cranks out for
> the first ride today. As I expected, the 29" uni felt much "twitchier"
than
> the uni I'm used to, a 24" Miyata Deluxe with 127 mm cranks. I also
> discovered that UPDs on the 29" uni are harder to run out of than UPDs on
> the 24" uni.
>
> My question is whether the "twitchy" feel of the 125 mm cranks will go
away
> with practice, or if 125 mm cranks always be more difficult to control
(even
> on smooth level surfaces) than 150 mm cranks. I selected 125 mm cranks
for
> speed, but I also want the relative flywheel effect of the Big Apple so
that
> I don't have to concentrate on the uni every moment. Will the 125 mm
cranks
> negate the flywheel effect of the Big Apple?
>
> Any comments are appreciated.
>
>

[onewheeldave]

Uni wrote:
> *Thanks to all who replied. I'd like to use this uni for city as well
> as
> distance riding, so let me ask the question in a different way:
>
> Is a 29" uni with 125 mm cranks practical for riding in a city
> (manuevering
> on sidewalks, passing pedestrians, crossing streets)? Or does the
> relative
> lack of control at slow speeds from the 125 mm cranks make this a bad
> idea?
>
>
> *

I've just posted a thread on the relative merits of 29-ers and munis in
those kind of riding situations which you may find of interest: -
http://tinyurl.com/368b4


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"He's also been known to indulge in a spot of flame juggling - but it's
the Muni that really fires him up."

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[Uni]

Thanks for the thread, onewheeldave. It was very helpful.

I think that 150 mm cranks on the 29" uni may be a good compromise (between
a 24" with 125s and a 29" with 125s). They should allow me to ride
comfortably and safely in the city, but still do some moderate distance
riding. They should also be better for the occasional hill than the 125s.

Does anyone else have an opinion on 125 vs. 150 mm cranks for a 29" uni that
will be used for city *and* distance riding?

"onewheeldave" . com> wrote
in message
. Unicyclist.com...
>
> Uni wrote:
> > *Thanks to all who replied. I'd like to use this uni for city as well
> > as
> > distance riding, so let me ask the question in a different way:
> >
> > Is a 29" uni with 125 mm cranks practical for riding in a city
> > (manuevering
> > on sidewalks, passing pedestrians, crossing streets)? Or does the
> > relative
> > lack of control at slow speeds from the 125 mm cranks make this a bad
> > idea?
> >
> >
> > *
>
> I've just posted a thread on the relative merits of 29-ers and munis in
> those kind of riding situations which you may find of interest: -
> http://tinyurl.com/368b4
>
>
> --
> onewheeldave - Semi Skilled Unicyclist
>
> "He's also been known to indulge in a spot of flame juggling - but it's
> the Muni that really fires him up."
>
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>

[rogeratunicycledotcom]

Uni wrote:
> *Does anyone else have an opinion on 125 vs. 150 mm cranks for a 29"
> uni that
> will be used for city *and* distance riding?
> *


Yes. 125 for serious Muni and 89's for street and distance. :-)


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[Uni]

Wow. Could you please explain why you prefer those sizes?

"rogeratunicycledotcom"
icyclist.com> wrote in
message
oster.at.Unicyclist.com...
>
> Uni wrote:
> > *Does anyone else have an opinion on 125 vs. 150 mm cranks for a 29"
> > uni that
> > will be used for city *and* distance riding?
> > *
>
>
> Yes. 125 for serious Muni and 89's for street and distance. :-)
>
>
> --
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>

[showard]

rogeratunicycledotcom wrote:
> *
>
> Yes. 125 for serious Muni and 89's for street and distance. :-) *


for me it's 170mm for serious MUni and 140's for street and distance.
It all depends on your skill, fitness and the terrain you ride.

Steve Howard


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[Klaas Bil]

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 13:34:15 -0500, "Uni" <Nospamforme> wrote:

>Is a 29" uni with 125 mm cranks practical for riding in a city (manuevering
>on sidewalks, passing pedestrians, crossing streets)? Or does the relative
>lack of control at slow speeds from the 125 mm cranks make this a bad idea?

It depends on practice, and experience level. Why don't you buy both
125 and 150 mm cranks, they're not that expensive. Then start with
150's, ride in the city and all that, switch later to the 125 and see
how you fare.

Klaas Bil - Newsgroup Addict
--
"Friends don't let friends drop to flat - Kris Holm, discussing large drops to flat ground."

[The Munieer]

I am kind of in the same boat - What crank length is best?

Even though I have had a 29er for over 6 months, it gets very little
use, so I am like a beginner on it. I ordered some 125's, 110's, 140's
from uni.com to experiment with. They are relatively inexpensive and
you can swap them out fairly easily.

The following perspective is based on little experience, so take it with
a grain of salt.

I like the 110's for level boulevard riding where the street lights are
far apart and the roads have wide bike lanes. Start up and deceleration
is slow, but speed picks up and for me, seems scary.
It sucks for hills, though.

I moved up to 125's and they feel better with more control. My top
speed on the computer showed 11 mph - that's "movin" on one wheel for an
inexperienced rider like myself. Though, I know many can ride faster.
Like others have said a UPD at that speed or faster is challenging.

I took the 29er with 125mm cranks out recently on some offroad with
gentle hills. I felt like I was struggling to get up what seemed like
hills that should not have been that hard to ride up.

A week later, I went up part of the same trail with 140's and noticed a
bit more torque, but still struggled with the hills. On a descent, I
ran it up to 10.9 mph, so that tells me the slightly longer length got
me more torque, but didn't really scrub off speed.

My next experiment will be to go with the 150's. I started out with
these when itwas a 28er, and I remember it feeling really slow on the
flats.

I will probably end up riding with 140's, for all around riding, but if
I take it off road more, I will probably go with the 150's to start and
maybe work down as "practice makes the master".

In summary, one can ask questions to narrow your choices, but I think
investing in some cranks and just experimenting is the way to go, if you
can afford it.

One last thought, I have a brake on my 29er. It started as a drag
brake, but I am going to experiment with a standard brake lever to give
me (I hope) more stopping power. A brake helps to slow you down when the
legs can't do it quickly.

Nathan says he can idle on a Coker with 125's. I can't even do that on
my 29er with 140's. Mike Fule likes short cranks and he no doubt feels
control with those shorties, but it really is based on experience.

Good luck, Uni


--
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Rod Wylie

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compete. You can be just an ordinary chap, sufficiently motivated to
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[joemarshall]

I use 125mm for muni and road riding, because I don't want to have to
switch cranks to ride anything interesting. I'd probably ride 110s or
shorter on the road if I didn't want to do any offroad riding.

When you first start with 125s, it seems like doing ballet or something,
like you're just wiggling your feet a little, rather than properly
pedalling. You'll get used to it after a bit and it'll feel like you're
riding properly again. I'd say about 100 miles or so is enough to get
happy with a crank size that is completely new to you. Once you're used
to a crank size, you can do all the stuff with it like idle, tight turns
and stop quickly.


Pedalling in circles rather than just going push-push with your feet in
turn is more and more important as you use shorter cranks.

The more you ride, the shorter cranks you can use. This is partly leg
strength and getting the right muscles and partly just skill. Roger
rides a hell of a lot and is pretty good, so can ride 89mm cranks on
road, whereas many of us would have trouble riding them, let alone
idling on them. If you can tame them, 89s are jolly super fast though.
If you don't ride most days, 89s are probably too short.


I've ridden quite a lot on my big apple over the last few weeks,
probably about 500 miles or so. I find once you've got used to the
cranks it's similar to a coker in that you can really ride it without
thinking much. I've had a couple of those moments that you get, where
you ride half-way to work on auto-pilot and then suddenly think, ooh,
how did I get there, which I didn't get on any other 29er tyre.

Make sure you have a nice lot of air in the tyre, it's a bit squirrely
at 40psi, but super smooth at 65psi.

One thing that I should point out, is that when Roger and I say riding
on the road, we mean exactly that, not riding on the sidewalk/pavement.
If you ride with the traffic, you can go a lot faster and you don't have
to mess around going up kerbs all the time or waiting for pedestrian
lights at every junction. It's also friendlier to pedestrians not to be
hooning along at 15mph in the middle of a crowd. If you're riding in a
city, this may influence your crank choice. You have to be able to ride
without a UPD on tarmac using your chosen unicycle. I've not come off
with my big apple on my commute yet.

Joe


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