Roundabouts - how to take them?

[FM]

Hello all

Being an inexperienced cyclist I looked to the trusty old highway code for
guidelines on dealing with roundabouts when cycling. How silly of me. It
basically said "you can stick to the left all the way around, hoping that
nobody flattens you as you cross their exit OR you can approach it as any
other vehicle would - the choice is yours". Thus I'm looking to gauge the
general concensus on which of these is the safest method, especially as I
tried the "stick to the left" method last time I was out and was of course
very nearly flattened (didn't feel very safe at all). Cheers for any input.

'smee

[chris French]

In message >, FM
> writes
>
>Being an inexperienced cyclist I looked to the trusty old highway code for
>guidelines on dealing with roundabouts when cycling.

> Thus I'm looking to gauge the
>general concensus on which of these is the safest method,

I would say try to take them as you would in a car as much as possible.

As you've found out, by sticking to the left people coming on to the
roundabout tends to assume you are going to exit at the next exit and
cur across you. If you can't or don't want to get much speed up then you
may have no option but to stay to the left though.

On big roundabouts though it can be a little hairy at times, you need to
try and get up to a decent speed so as to keep you speed similar to the
cars as much as possible. Be confident, assertive and clear about your
position and intentions. Generally, I find that as long as I get in the
right position at the right time I don't really have problems with the
vehicles on the RB it's the ones coming on to the RB that pose the most
risk.

John Franklin's book Cyclecraft has lots of good advice on this sort of
things and plenty of other good stuff.

--
Chris French, Leeds

[David Hansen]

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 01:06:09 +0100 someone who may be "FM"
> wrote this:-

>Being an inexperienced cyclist I looked to the trusty old highway code for
>guidelines on dealing with roundabouts when cycling. How silly of me.

It's written by the road "safety" lobby, in other words the motoring
lobby. As Chris recommended, get hold of a copy of "Cyclecraft".
This outlines the best road positioning in various situations and
why it is best.

The way to deal with roundabouts is to behave just like any other
road user. Stick to the middle of an appropriate lane, do not try
and get out of the way of car drivers. This does mean being
assertive, but remember that you have every right to use the roads.

If you cause any slight delays to motorists by doing so remember
that:

1) you are not required to make your life less safe to make others'
lives slightly more convenient

2) any delays caused to others while you exercise your right to use
the roads were caused by the prat who designed the roundabout

3) roundabouts are dangerous for cyclists and any organisation that
cares about cyclists would be removing them


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

[Tony W]

"FM" > wrote in message
...
> Hello all
>
> Being an inexperienced cyclist I looked to the trusty old highway code for
> guidelines on dealing with roundabouts when cycling. How silly of me. It
> basically said "you can stick to the left all the way around, hoping that
> nobody flattens you as you cross their exit OR you can approach it as any
> other vehicle would - the choice is yours". Thus I'm looking to gauge the
> general concensus on which of these is the safest method, especially as I
> tried the "stick to the left" method last time I was out and was of course
> very nearly flattened (didn't feel very safe at all). Cheers for any
input.


Take small to medium sized ones as you would in a car -- take the lane, be
visible and behave as if you own the joint.

Really big ones -- where cars can be doing nightmare speeds -- can be
difficult, but they are more likely to have glass strewn, yob infested
underpasses for the really foolhardy. Its a matter of confidence and
prudence. If in doubt -- you only get one life -- cowardice is sometimes
the best course.

T

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

"FM" > wrote in message
...

[how to take roundabouts]

What the others said: adopt the "primary riding position" as per Cyclecraft
(for roundabouts this means approximately in line with where you would be
sitting if you were in the driving seat of a car). Ride assertively but
make sure you keep your wits about you - remember that 50% of fatal
accidents involving cyclists on roundabouts are due to drivers failing to
yield to a cyclist who is already circulating, so keep a close eye on the
front cars at each entry to the roundabout and be prepared to shout loudly
and / or bail out. Do not be tempted to hug the outer edge of the
roundabout, and above all keep your line wherever possible (especially when
there are no lane markings on the roundabout itself).

One good technique is to make eye contact with the driver of a following
vehicle who is indicating to go the same way. Make sure (s)he looks
friendly - you don't want them crawling up your back wheel - and then take
the roundabout in front of them, making use of the fact that while bikes are
invisible cars generally aren't.

Non-standard roundabout signals (i.e. pointing directly at the exit you are
going to take) also work surprisingly well.

I used to negotiate this roundabout
<http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=514410&y=205075&z=3&sv=514500,20550
0&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf> every day on the way to
work, including before the M25 opened when it was one of the busiest bits of
road in the country. I had one near-fatal crash, and that was when there
was almost nobody else there apart from me and Mrs Clueless (who failed to
yield to an already-circulating cyclist, in the usual way). Mostly, riding
confidently and looking as if you know what you are doing is sufficient.

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.com
[currently out of service, will be back within 14 days, 5 days, 10 days, 2
days or one month depending on who you believe at BT]

[David Brown :o\)]

Looks like there's another nice one in swindon
http://www.netcyclo.co.uk/places/polit/nations/uk/england/wiltshire/swindon/
magicrdb/magicrdb.htm
--
David Brown :o)
http://kitemap.co.uk

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

"David Brown :o)" > wrote in message
...

> I expected to see the 'Magic Roundabout' at Hemel when I clicked that link

I've always found that quite straightforward - the cagers are sufficiantly
confused that they seem to take it slowly :-)

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.com

[Tony W]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" > wrote in message
...

>
> I've always found that quite straightforward - the cagers are sufficiantly
> confused that they seem to take it slowly :-)


Anyone who knows it is a such a massive advantage that you can whistle round
it.

[Bloke on a bike]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" > wrote in message >...
> "FM" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> [how to take roundabouts]
>
> What the others said: adopt the "primary riding position" as per Cyclecraft
> (for roundabouts this means approximately in line with where you would be
> sitting if you were in the driving seat of a car).

Agree with this, except-
I have a large/medium roundabout (the sort with 3 lane entries and two
lane exits at all four directions) to negotiate on my way home every
night, where I turn right.
Here I find that rather than ride where the driver would be, it is
better to stay just far enough away from the central island on my
right to prevent a car from slipping through on my right, but staying
far enough left in my lane to discourage undertaking.

To the OP.
A little turn of speed will help a lot. Except in the case of very
large roundabouts it is pretty easy to sustain a speed more or less
equal to that of the traffic using the roundabout for the short
duration of the manouver.
If you can see the traffic on the rounabout as you arrive it is
usefull to try and time your arrival and entry for optimum speed.

As others have said, watch the entry lanes and be assertive. He who
hesitates gets pulled out on. But know what you are going to do when
Mr/s Bonehead pulls out. Being in the right doesn't make it hurt less.

Bloke on a bike
(The Biker at the gates of dawn)

[FM]

Thanks very much for all the helpful replies. I'll get me a copy of
cyclecraft immediately.

'smee!

"Just zis Guy, you know?" > wrote in message
...
> "FM" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> [how to take roundabouts]
>
> What the others said: adopt the "primary riding position" as per
Cyclecraft
> (for roundabouts this means approximately in line with where you would be
> sitting if you were in the driving seat of a car). Ride assertively but
> make sure you keep your wits about you - remember that 50% of fatal
> accidents involving cyclists on roundabouts are due to drivers failing to
> yield to a cyclist who is already circulating, so keep a close eye on the
> front cars at each entry to the roundabout and be prepared to shout loudly
> and / or bail out. Do not be tempted to hug the outer edge of the
> roundabout, and above all keep your line wherever possible (especially
when
> there are no lane markings on the roundabout itself).
>
> One good technique is to make eye contact with the driver of a following
> vehicle who is indicating to go the same way. Make sure (s)he looks
> friendly - you don't want them crawling up your back wheel - and then take
> the roundabout in front of them, making use of the fact that while bikes
are
> invisible cars generally aren't.
>
> Non-standard roundabout signals (i.e. pointing directly at the exit you
are
> going to take) also work surprisingly well.
>
> I used to negotiate this roundabout
>
<http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=514410&y=205075&z=3&sv=514500,20550
> 0&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf> every day on the way to
> work, including before the M25 opened when it was one of the busiest bits
of
> road in the country. I had one near-fatal crash, and that was when there
> was almost nobody else there apart from me and Mrs Clueless (who failed to
> yield to an already-circulating cyclist, in the usual way). Mostly,
riding
> confidently and looking as if you know what you are doing is sufficient.
>
> --
> Guy
> ===
>
> WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
> http://www.chapmancentral.com
> [currently out of service, will be back within 14 days, 5 days, 10 days, 2
> days or one month depending on who you believe at BT]
>
>

[Peter B]

"Tim Woodall" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> OTOH, if you aren't sure where you are going then I would suggest you
> decide which exit to take at approach and then don't vary from that even
if
> you realise part way around that it isn't the right exit. Just do a U turn
> once you are off the roundabout and try again.

[Peter B]

"Tim Woodall" > wrote in message
.. .
> OTOH, if you aren't sure where you are going then I would suggest you
> decide which exit to take at approach and then don't vary from that even
if
> you realise part way around that it isn't the right exit. Just do a U turn
> once you are off the roundabout and try again.

If only some of my fellow cagers would heed this advice.
Instead some of them, once they realise they're in the wrong lane, just
change lane without regard to anyone else, the Fosse Park (Leicester)
ballsup, sorry roundabout, is a classic.
Bad enough when I'm in my car, doesn't bear thinking about as a cyclist.

Pete

[Pete Barrett]

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 01:06:09 +0100, "FM" > wrote:

>Hello all
>
>Being an inexperienced cyclist I looked to the trusty old highway code for
>guidelines on dealing with roundabouts when cycling. How silly of me. It
>basically said "you can stick to the left all the way around, hoping that
>nobody flattens you as you cross their exit OR you can approach it as any
>other vehicle would - the choice is yours". Thus I'm looking to gauge the
>general concensus on which of these is the safest method, especially as I
>tried the "stick to the left" method last time I was out and was of course
>very nearly flattened (didn't feel very safe at all). Cheers for any input.
>
The very *safest* way to negotiate a roundabout is to get off, walk to
the crossing/underpass/bridge (there will usually be something like
this for pedestrians in urban areas), and use that. Roundabouts in
rural areas usually have less traffic, in my experience, so it's
possible to wait for an opportunity and cross (if necessary by
instalments) on foot.

But I don't always do that, and when I cycle round one I do what
everyone else has said - take it as if I was a car. The main danger is
the motroist going too fast round the roundabout - not much you can do
about that. The main nuisance is the motorist who won't wait behind a
bike in the centre lane, but takes the inside lane when he's leaving
on the second exit - that can be quite nasty, because it prevents you
from crossing over onto the correct lane on the roundabout to exit it
properly.


Pete Barrett

[Michael Kent]

FM wrote:
> Hello all
>
> Being an inexperienced cyclist I looked to the trusty old highway
> code for guidelines on dealing with roundabouts when cycling. How
> silly of me. It basically said "you can stick to the left all the
> way around, hoping that nobody flattens you as you cross their exit
> OR you can approach it as any other vehicle would - the choice is
> yours". Thus I'm looking to gauge the general concensus on which of
> these is the safest method, especially as I tried the "stick to the
> left" method last time I was out and was of course very nearly
> flattened (didn't feel very safe at all). Cheers for any input.
>
> 'smee

I found this page very useful in an argument with another car driver the
other day
http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/17.shtml#160

All about roundabouts

Cheers
Michael

--
Michael Kent

There are only 10 types of people in this world.
Those who understand binary,... and those that don't
Remove Shaggy's best friend to reply

[Andrew Chadwick]

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:17:16 GMT, Mark van Gorkom > wrote:
> I actually like UK roundabouts, esp. the larger ones!

Roundabout surfing can be fun, true. I just wish the ones near where I
live had better sight-lines. Round Oxford you get everything from great
view-obscuring grassy hills in the middle some of the larger
roundabouts, to miniature wicker men (http://uk.imdb.com/Title?0070917)
in the middle of some of the smaller ones. Strange place, Oxfordshire.

> I used the same strategy on a mini roundabout (more a glorified
> crossing) once, and almost got flattened by a van hurtling straight
> across, so now I'm a bit more carefull when aproaching the smaller
> ones!

Priority tends to go out of the window around miniroundabouts if there
are two users approaching from different directions. No-one seems sure
who to defer to.

> P.S.: over here, roundabouts usually have a seperate cycle lane going
> round the outside; slower and less safe IMHO.

Ugh. Definitely less safe. I hope you're not compelled to use them.


--
Andrew Chadwick
<We're all in this together>