A few questions for a Audaxers and tourists

[M Series]

I have done many thousands of miles on my old tourer, a 1986 Raleigh Royal.
I am thinking of tidying it up for use later in the year and for Audaxes
next year then for my LeJoG. Chainset, gears and wheels are sound.

Some questions what 700c tyres are good ones for riding on tracks such as
converted railway lines. I want something that is tough enough. The brakes
are Weinman centre pulls and compared to my Shimano 105/Ultegra bikes are
very stiff and not very powerful. What alternatives are there for callipers
and levers, the drop is about 53mm. Are those Alhonga ones in C+ any good,
what levers would complement them ? There are no canti bosses on the frame
so I need bolt on callipers with a nut on the end.

Thanks in advance

Martin

[Garry Broad]

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 17:02:17 +0100, "M Series" >
wrote:

>I have done many thousands of miles on my old tourer, a 1986 Raleigh Royal.
>I am thinking of tidying it up for use later in the year and for Audaxes
>next year then for my LeJoG. Chainset, gears and wheels are sound.
>
>Some questions what 700c tyres are good ones for riding on tracks such as
>converted railway lines. I want something that is tough enough. The brakes
>are Weinman centre pulls and compared to my Shimano 105/Ultegra bikes are
>very stiff and not very powerful. What alternatives are there for callipers
>and levers, the drop is about 53mm. Are those Alhonga ones in C+ any good,
>what levers would complement them ? There are no canti bosses on the frame
>so I need bolt on callipers with a nut on the end.
>

Depending on how you feel about 'interfering' with your bike, you
could consider putting canti bosses on. Obviously this may require a
frame builder, (which may not be that expensive), or you could do what
I've just done - sawing the canti bosses off an old mountain bike and
brazing them onto your tourer! You can get away with mapp gas for
this...just about. A disposable can will cost you around 8 quid and a
few sticks of bronze or silver/nickel are only a couple of notes.

But this all depends upon how valuable your bike is to you, in
whatever form that value may take. I tend to grovel around in the
old/secondhand market when it comes to bikes so I don't mind the
possibility of cocking a frame up is things go belly up.

But so far, so good, things seem to be holding up quite nicely. In
fact, they're brilliant, but believe you me, I'm paying close
attention to what's going on down there!

Shame I don't have a digital camera, and I could upload some pictures.

Anyway, just a thought!

Garry

[Pete Biggs]

M Series wrote:
> I have done many thousands of miles on my old tourer, a 1986 Raleigh
> Royal. I am thinking of tidying it up for use later in the year and
> for Audaxes next year then for my LeJoG. Chainset, gears and wheels
> are sound.

Hello, You might remember that I've got one of those bikes myself. I'm
quite pleased with my recent upgrades to it.....

/snip
> The brakes are Weinman centre pulls and compared to my
> Shimano 105/Ultegra bikes are very stiff and not very powerful. What
> alternatives are there for callipers and levers, the drop is about
> 53mm.

If you don't mind sacrificing the front bit of front mudguard* (which
doesn't do much anyway; mine broke accidentally), a current bog standard
Campag dual pivot fits, has enough clearance and just about enough reach
for a 700c wheel if slots are filed a bit. So if even that works, I would
imagine there are plenty more dual pivot options (including long reach
ones).
Shimanos with quick release in calipers would be better for dealing
with wide tyres.
I haven't bothered changing rear brake yet - don't need so much power
there and extra-long reach would be required. Weinmann centre pulls,
although heavy-feeling, still work reasonably ok with modern levers.
New calipers should work well with any modern levers (or even the
Weinmanns just about in the meantime: I did try that). I'm now using
Campag Mirage Ergos on this bike.

> Are those Alhonga ones in C+ any good, what levers would
> complement them ? There are no canti bosses on the frame so I need
> bolt on callipers with a nut on the end.

You don't need nutted brakes if the fork/frame holes are enlarged to
accept recessed nuts. I managed it easily (with front forks) with a
hand-held electric drill, and I can't even put a shelf up! See
www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_r.html - "recessed" - for details and more
alternatives.

I think these might be good (?):
"Tektro 521 DeLux (57 ak) @ £27.50" from
www.parker-international.co.uk/components.htm - Search Sheldon Brown's
and Google for pics and details on "Tektro 521", etc.

* Mudguard is broken off cleanly at rear of the forks (it could be cut, I
suppose). Back section is still fine, front section, if present, would
just about fit through calipers but would foul tyre when braking. I did
actually try this with my spare unused front Royal mudguard - which, BTW,
I'm afraid I'm not selling because it's so niiiiiice :-) Sorry!

~PB

[M Series]

Thanks for the responses. I have some Kool Stop grey blocks in right now,
have had them in for years. I also have a spare pair in my toolbox. The
frame could do with a refurb so it would be a good opportunity to get canti
bosses though I think the modern ones are pretty poor compared to the 1980's
Deore ones I had on my old mountain bike. Perhaps I'll get some quotes for a
refurb, though I doubt I'll be able to find the money for the number 3 bike.

Thanks all


"M Series" > wrote in message
...
> I have done many thousands of miles on my old tourer, a 1986 Raleigh
Royal.
> I am thinking of tidying it up for use later in the year and for Audaxes
> next year then for my LeJoG. Chainset, gears and wheels are sound.
>
> Some questions what 700c tyres are good ones for riding on tracks such as
> converted railway lines. I want something that is tough enough. The brakes
> are Weinman centre pulls and compared to my Shimano 105/Ultegra bikes are
> very stiff and not very powerful. What alternatives are there for
callipers
> and levers, the drop is about 53mm. Are those Alhonga ones in C+ any good,
> what levers would complement them ? There are no canti bosses on the frame
> so I need bolt on callipers with a nut on the end.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Martin
>
>

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:53:06 +0100, "M Series" >
wrote:

>The
>frame could do with a refurb so it would be a good opportunity to get canti
>bosses though I think the modern ones are pretty poor compared to the 1980's
>Deore ones I had on my old mountain bike.

Reading through, I think having bosses fitted is probably over the
top. Have a look at the long-reach dual-pviots now on offer, as Jim
Price suggests, I think you'll find them perfectly satisfactory.
Shimano are good, Alhonga are just as good and cheaper according to
Reliable Sources.

Not that cantis are a Bad Thing - I use cantis on my tourer, and
recently upgraded from an ancient set of Weinmanns to Suntour XCs - I
am biggish and ride fast. The Avid Shorty is good too, I am told.
But why go to the expense of braze-ons when the dual-pivots are
reckoned to be so good?

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony.
http://www.chapmancentral.com
[currently offline awaiting ADSL transfer to new ISP]

[Sheldon Brown]

Some Leica rangefinder cameras asked:

> I have done many thousands of miles on my old tourer, a 1986 Raleigh Ro=
yal.
> I am thinking of tidying it up for use later in the year and for Audaxe=
s
> next year then for my LeJoG. Chainset, gears and wheels are sound.
> The brakes
> are Weinman centre pulls and compared to my Shimano 105/Ultegra bikes a=
re
> very stiff and not very powerful. What alternatives are there for calli=
pers
> and levers, the drop is about 53mm. Are those Alhonga ones in C+ any go=
od,
> what levers would complement them ? There are no canti bosses on the fr=
ame
> so I need bolt on callipers with a nut on the end.

A caliper brake system consists of 4 parts:

=95The levers
=95The cables
=95The calipers
=95The brake shoes

All of these parts are upgradable. Many people think first of replacing =

the calipers, but, in fact, this is the least likely part to make any=20
real difference. A caliper is a simple leverage unit, and there's not=20
all that much to one.

In the case of older bikes, it can be difficult to find a new caliper=20
that will even fit.

The other 3 parts are much more likely to yield real improvement.

=95The levers

Older designs had the cables exit up from the front of the brake levers, =

arching over the
handlebars. The newer style, where the cable exits out the back of the=20
lever and runs under the handlebar tape is referred to as "aero" because =

it eliminates the wind drag of the exposed cables.

Aero levers are generally a major improvement over the older type. The=20
pivots are located differently, making it possible to get fairly serious =

braking from the position where the rider's hand is on top of the lever=20
hood. Traditional levers would permit the use of this position for=20
gentle deceleration only.

Additionally, the better aero levers have better internal cable routing, =

so there's less cable friction. I particularly recommend the Shimano=20
Tiagra units we sell for $39.95, including cables. See:=20
http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/brakes.html#leversdrop

=95The cables

Older cables used metal-to-metal contact as the inner cable slid through =

the spiral-wound steel housing. Lubricant was by grease, if the=20
mechanic was conscientious.

Modern cable housings have a Teflon or similar lining. The better inner =

cables are stainless steel, and are "die drawn" to make them smoother.=20
The result is greatly reduced cable friction, so more of your finger=20
strength is transmitted to the caliper, rather than wasted overcoming=20
cable friction.

=95The brake shoes

Modern high-performance brake shoes also make a considerable difference. =

The very best is the ugly salmon-colored material originated by=20
Scott-Mathauser, and now sold under the Kool Stop name. See:=20
http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/brakeshoes.html

Sheldon "50mm f2 Collapsible Summicron" Brown
+-------------------------------------------------+
| Some of my mother's paintings may be seen at: |
| http://sheldonbrown.com/joyce |
+-------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

[Pete Biggs]

Sheldon Brown wrote:

[caliper systems]
> All of these parts are upgradable. Many people think first of
> replacing
> the calipers, but, in fact, this is the least likely part to make any
> real difference. A caliper is a simple leverage unit, and there's not
> all that much to one.

I can't agree any more. I did the experiment on exactly the same model
bike as the OP's and found a dual pivot caliper made a big improvement to
braking when used with the same old Weinmann lever (more sheer stopping
power because of the higher mechanical advantage AND a much lighter feel
because of the lesser spring force). This was a better improvement than
just using a modern lever with the same old caliper - an arrangement which
I now have for the rear brake.

For the front brake at least, I strongly recommend changing BOTH the
caliper and lever. Modern levers are more comfortable and pull more cable
(the Weinmann only just pulls enough - but it can be safe if cable and
pads are adjusted carefully).

~PB

[M Series]

Maybe that's what I'll do, get some new levers, try it and if I still need
an improvement see if I can pick up a spare calliper and give that a go.


"Pete Biggs" > wrote in message
...
> Sheldon Brown wrote:
>
> [caliper systems]
> > All of these parts are upgradable. Many people think first of
> > replacing
> > the calipers, but, in fact, this is the least likely part to make any
> > real difference. A caliper is a simple leverage unit, and there's not
> > all that much to one.
>
> I can't agree any more. I did the experiment on exactly the same model
> bike as the OP's and found a dual pivot caliper made a big improvement to
> braking when used with the same old Weinmann lever (more sheer stopping
> power because of the higher mechanical advantage AND a much lighter feel
> because of the lesser spring force). This was a better improvement than
> just using a modern lever with the same old caliper - an arrangement which
> I now have for the rear brake.
>
> For the front brake at least, I strongly recommend changing BOTH the
> caliper and lever. Modern levers are more comfortable and pull more cable
> (the Weinmann only just pulls enough - but it can be safe if cable and
> pads are adjusted carefully).
>
> ~PB
>
>