Re: Cars are definitely faster - not.

[Tony W]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" > wrote in message
...
> RAC report quoted on BBC today:
>
> "The average distance travelled by UK workers is 8.5 miles - 17% longer
than
> a decade ago."
>
> [...]
>
> "The main reason given for using the car to drive to work was that it was
> quicker than other options."
>
> 8.5 miles in 45 minutes - average 11.3mph. I average between 18.5 and
21mph
> cycling to work.
>
> Another excuse demolished. Next?


To be fair you are a 'fit_*******' [tm] riding a performance enhancing
bike -- at the cost, of course, of your immortal soul. {nb -- fit in the
sense of athletically capable and not in any modern day parlance associated
with sexual attraction -- just to be clear about this}

It would be better to destroy the argument using the typical performance of
an average 'old_git' [tm], 'fat_git' [tm] or of, say, a 'fatbirdonabike' [tm
waffles] -- all of whom could probably match or exceed 11.3 mph assuming the
cars were not clagging up the road too much.

But, Tom Cager asks, 'your not allowing for the time it takes to shower and
change. Haa. Got you there'.

Answers suggesting that you don't even break sweat at 11.3 mph will not be
considered reasonable.

T

[Richard Bates]

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:08:01 +0000 (UTC), "j-p.s"
> in
> wrote:

>obstreperous doctoral student?

Sounds like someone training to look at womens' bits. Oh, sorry,
that's obstetrics. Easy mistake to make.

love and (?) from Rich x

--
Two cannibals eating a clown. One says to the other,
"Does this taste funny to you?"
To reply replace the obvious bit with "richard"

[Colin Blackburn]

In article >,
says...

> But, Tom Cager asks, 'your not allowing for the time it takes to shower and
> change. Haa. Got you there'.
>
> Answers suggesting that you don't even break sweat at 11.3 mph will not be
> considered reasonable.

*If* a sweat was broken then the answer is that the driver presumably
showered before leaving home---a driver asking such a question must care
about showering to think it so important---and therefore the time the
cyclist takes to shower at work is no more or less than the driver
showering at home.

Changing, I'd suggest, does, if one cycles in non-work clothes, add a
little time but most cycling clothes are pretty quick to get on and
off---unless you get the wrong percentage of lycra---so the additional
time is minimal as more time will be spent besuiting oneself, again
something the driver will have spent time doing at home.

Colin

[Michael Kent]

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
> RAC report quoted on BBC today:
>
> "The average distance travelled by UK workers is 8.5 miles - 17%
> longer than a decade ago."
>
> [...]
>
> "The main reason given for using the car to drive to work was that it
> was quicker than other options."
>
> 8.5 miles in 45 minutes - average 11.3mph. I average between 18.5
> and 21mph cycling to work.
>
> Another excuse demolished. Next?

No thats not quite right 45 mins per day = 22.5 mins per journey so its 22.6
not 11.3

Cheers
Michael

--
Michael Kent

There are only 10 types of people in this world.
Those who understand binary,... and those that don't
Remove Shaggy's best friend to reply

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

"Tony W" > wrote in message
...

> > 8.5 miles in 45 minutes - average 11.3mph. I average between 18.5 and
> 21mph
> > cycling to work.
> > Another excuse demolished. Next?

> To be fair you are a 'fit_*******' [tm] riding a performance enhancing
> bike -- at the cost, of course, of your immortal soul.

I maintain the same average on the wedgie at risk solely to my mortal head
:-)

> But, Tom Cager asks, 'your not allowing for the time it takes to shower
and
> change. Haa. Got you there'.

And to Tom Smelly******* Cager I answer: I was planning to shower anyway -
weren't you? And actually I don't have a shower at work, I use other
methods to assure personal freshness.


--
Guy
===

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[Just zis Guy, you know?]

"Michael Kent" > wrote in message
...

> No thats not quite right 45 mins per day = 22.5 mins per journey so its
22.6
> not 11.3


You could read it either as 8.5 miles RT, 45 minutes overall, or 8.5 miles
each way, 45 mins each way journey time.

I live in Reading and work in Henley. Most of the journey is along a
free-flowing A road with congestion for only a short distance at each end.
Typical time by car: 35 minutes. Typical time by bike: 25 minutes.

I think they answer "it's quicker" because they can't bring themselves to
tick "I'm an idle fat git who doesn't give a toss about the environment"
when asked for their reasons. It's like the reasons for not using trains,
none of which bear any relation to any train I've used in the last five
years.

--
Guy
===

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[Paul Rudin]

>>>>> "Tony" == Tony W > writes:



> But, Tom Cager asks, 'your not allowing for the time it takes to
> shower and change. Haa. Got you there'.

The obvious response is: it's question of showering before travelling
to work or on arriving; makes no difference to total time.


> Answers suggesting that you don't even break sweat at 11.3 mph
> will not be considered reasonable.

Depends how hot it is :-)

[Tony W]

"Colin Blackburn" > wrote in message
news:MPG.198714323654de01989b2d@localhost...
>
> *If* a sweat was broken then the answer is that the driver presumably
> showered before leaving home---a driver asking such a question must care
> about showering to think it so important---and therefore the time the
> cyclist takes to shower at work is no more or less than the driver
> showering at home.
>
> Changing, I'd suggest, does, if one cycles in non-work clothes, add a
> little time but most cycling clothes are pretty quick to get on and
> off---unless you get the wrong percentage of lycra---so the additional
> time is minimal as more time will be spent besuiting oneself, again
> something the driver will have spent time doing at home.

Is correct -- but I was hoping for some more 'tangential' answers.

Motorists often discount the time taken parking and walking from the car
park.

Cyclists are fully awake, endorphins running, up and at the challenges of
the day.

You save all that boring gym work.

You save money/congestion/the environment/your health.

You get a tan without needing to spend a fortune on 2 weeks on the Costa
Packet.

You save on suncream when on the Costa Packet 'cos you've already got a tan.

You save lots of time during the day because you can bounce up the stairs
three at a time.

The lovely Emma in accounts thinks you've got a nice bum.

When the boss needs someone in Manchester that afternoon you can't go
because the car is at home (phew).

T

[Colin Blackburn]

In article >,
says...

> The lovely Emma in accounts thinks you've got a nice bum.

How do you know that?

Colin

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

"Gareth Attrill" > wrote in message
...

> Average figures are very misleading. I suspect that very short
> journeys that take a very long time are distorting the average figure.

Distorting? Why would short journeys in heavily congested areas distory the
figures any more than long journeys on ungongested roads? That's what
averages are about: extremes become less significant the more data there is.

Another RAC comment:

"The average amount spent on travel is £3,500"

I can feel a Trice comin on :-D

> To be honest, where I live (rural Hampshire, with my parents) a car is
> essential to live a normal life

Hmmm. I'm guessing that few people would die without one, but rural PT is
close enough to non-existent (thanks, Maggie) that it would certainly be
inconvenient.

> after paying tax and insurance
> etc. for the year (£2 a day for me) *not* using it daily makes very
> poor financial sense.

Is the real reason for many people. The problem for PT has always been that
their cost must be recovered entirely from per-journey charges, whereas most
of the cost of depreciation, excise duty, servicing and such is a fixed
cost, making the marginal cost lower in comparison. You can only realise
the full saving of travelling by other means if you can actually reduce your
cage count. This is a good reason for making
as much of the cost as possible marginal - so, migrate VED to fuel duty,
migrate company car taxation to road pricing and per-day workplace parking
taxation and so on.

The bonus of being able to pop out at lunchtime
> to do my own thing rather than sit in the office is also important to
> me.

I do that by bike :-)

> THAT SAID, for the very short journeys the people are *mad* as I
> expect a lot of them could walk to work and take only a little longer.

or cycle and take /less/ time :-)

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.com

[JohnB]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:

> Another RAC comment:
>
> "The average amount spent on travel is £3,500"
>
> I can feel a Trice comin on :-D

See below ;-)

> > To be honest, where I live (rural Hampshire, with my parents) a car is
> > essential to live a normal life
>
> Hmmm. I'm guessing that few people would die without one, but rural PT is
> close enough to non-existent (thanks, Maggie) that it would certainly be
> inconvenient.

Well, I'm in semi-rural Hampshire too and we did the sums several years ago.
I suppose it must depend upon *exact* location but we manage quite nicely
without a four wheel box. Tell a lie, I'm after a cargo trailer for the hack
bike.

The savings, which are considerable, did help fund the trice :-)

> > after paying tax and insurance
> > etc. for the year (£2 a day for me) *not* using it daily makes very
> > poor financial sense.
>
> Is the real reason for many people.

....or an 'excuse' for not looking at alternatives.

> The bonus of being able to pop out at lunchtime
> > to do my own thing rather than sit in the office is also important to
> > me.
>
> I do that by bike :-)

Ditto.

John B

[Digweed .. ;\)]

Just zis Guy, you know? tried to scribble ...

> RAC report quoted on BBC today:
>
> "The average distance travelled by UK workers is 8.5 miles - 17%
> longer than a decade ago."
>
> [...]
>
> "The main reason given for using the car to drive to work was that it
> was quicker than other options."
>
> 8.5 miles in 45 minutes - average 11.3mph. I average between 18.5
> and 21mph cycling to work.
>
> Another excuse demolished. Next?

Why an excuse ? In my situation the car _is_ quicker than a cycle and is
way more convenient. I only travel about 5 miles to work, but have to do it
twice a day. In the am (5.30 ish) I use the car, in the pm (2.30 ish) I use
the bicycle. I guess it's about 10 minutes by car and about 20 minutes by
bike. It also takes me longer to get ready to ride the bike than it does to
get ready to drive the car.

Mind, the road is a main road almost all the way, with a couple of 'ring
road' roundabouts to negotiate, and the bike is a mountain bike so isn't
particularly fast on the road. There are no shortcuts I can take to
minimise the cycling time.

In my previous job I worked from home but the journey from home to the
office was about 113 miles, so couldn't be undertaken regularly or reliably
any other way than by car.

--
Digweed

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:00:27 +0100, "Digweed .. ;\)"
> wrote:

>> Another excuse demolished.
>Why an excuse ?

Excuse because, as posted, the average speed achieved is less than
that attainable by even a trundly cyclist. It is the nature of
averages that some poeple are faster and some slower. It is the
nature of averages that some journey will be longer than average and
some shorter.

I wonder how many of those commutes are under 5 miles? That seems to
me to be a magic number below which even the unfit could easily cycle.

Guy
===
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http://www.chapmancentral.com
[currently offline awaiting ADSL transfer to new ISP]

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:30:03 +0100, congokid >
wrote:

>my journey could be more than 100 minutes each
>way and was rarely less than 60, it would have cost much more to take
>the train each day.

The time you make a saving is when you can do without one car. At
that point you get to compare like with like, otherwise you're
comparing a mode where most of the costs are fixed and already paid
against one where all the costs are per-journey / distance.

Guy
===
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http://www.chapmancentral.com
[currently offline awaiting ADSL transfer to new ISP]

[Digweed .. ;\)]

Just zis Guy, you know? tried to scribble ...

> On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:00:27 +0100, "Digweed .. ;\)"
> > wrote:
>
>>> Another excuse demolished.
>> Why an excuse ?
>
> Excuse because, as posted, the average speed achieved is less than
> that attainable by even a trundly cyclist. It is the nature of
> averages that some poeple are faster and some slower. It is the
> nature of averages that some journey will be longer than average and
> some shorter.

In my case the journey is still far quicker, either by time or average
speed, by car. It is also far easier .. especially at 5.30 am .. ;) In
general terms a 5 mile commute ought to be easy to cycle, but in some cases
in can't be.

> I wonder how many of those commutes are under 5 miles? That seems to
> me to be a magic number below which even the unfit could easily cycle.

Heheheh, all of mine are. But I don't want to always cycle to work,
especially if I have to carry my toolbox or a laptop or similar .. or it's
raining again .. ;)

--
Digweed

[Matt]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:00:27 +0100, "Digweed .. ;\)"
> > wrote:
>
> >> Another excuse demolished.
> >Why an excuse ?
>
> Excuse because, as posted, the average speed achieved is less than
> that attainable by even a trundly cyclist. It is the nature of
> averages that some poeple are faster and some slower. It is the
> nature of averages that some journey will be longer than average and
> some shorter.
>
> I wonder how many of those commutes are under 5 miles? That seems to
> me to be a magic number below which even the unfit could easily cycle.
>
> Guy
> ===

Err? What is the average cycle commute speed then? I manage around
22-25km/h according to my little cyclocomp thing but I pass plenty of other
cyclists at that speed. I thought that was a respectable speed but now I
feel all deflated.

I think 11mph is a respectable non cyclist cycle speed (if that makes
sense).

If I drove to work I would get there faster but - as previously pointed
out - in overall life time (get fit, wake up, tan, feel better, anger
management, etc) it's an improvement. I will appreciate the extra minutes
cycling gives me overall when I'm flattened by a bus!

Matt

[congokid]

In article >, "Digweed .. ;)"
> writes

>Heheheh, all of mine are. But I don't want to always cycle to work,
>especially if I have to carry my toolbox or a laptop or similar .. or it's
>raining again .. ;)

Big softie!!

I haven't let rain or snow stop me much over the past 10 years.

I did promise myself that if I had to wear a suit for a morning meeting
I'd take the bus, but I can't even bear to do that so I leave the suit
at work along with shoes, collar stiffeners and sleeve bands and bring
in a fresh shirt.

Must get the suit dry-cleaned before the next meeting.

I think I would be more upset to get my suit and shoes wet than for me
to get wet on my bike. Perhaps because the suit cost a lot more than the
Brompton.

--
congokid
Eating out in London? Read my tips...
http://congokid.com

[Digweed .. ;\)]

congokid tried to scribble ...

> In article >, "Digweed ..
> ;)" > writes
>
>> Heheheh, all of mine are. But I don't want to always cycle to work,
>> especially if I have to carry my toolbox or a laptop or similar ..
>> or it's raining again .. ;)
>
> Big softie!!

Heheheh .. ;)

> I haven't let rain or snow stop me much over the past 10 years.

Good for you.

> I did promise myself that if I had to wear a suit for a morning
> meeting I'd take the bus, but I can't even bear to do that so I leave
> the suit
> at work along with shoes, collar stiffeners and sleeve bands and bring
> in a fresh shirt.

I can actually wear shorts and a tee-shirt to work if I wish, so clothing
has little to do with my choice.

> Must get the suit dry-cleaned before the next meeting.
>
> I think I would be more upset to get my suit and shoes wet than for me
> to get wet on my bike. Perhaps because the suit cost a lot more than
> the Brompton.

I'm not averse to riding the bike in wet weather at all, in fact quite often
the muddier the merrier. I also go off-roading in my Landrover and Trials
motorbikes .. ;)

I _do_, however, dislike road-riding in the wet on a mountain bike with 26 x
2.1 Onza Dan and Dave 'knobblies' though .. it makes some of the corners,
roundabouts and road junction lane changes I negotiate a little
'interesting' sometimes. Yes, I _could_ get a change of wheels and tyres to
something more suitable, but I didn't buy the bike to commute on .. If I did
want to commute regularly I'd get a more suitable steed ..

I don't actually, bottom line, want to commute by bike, I prefer the more
convenient car.

--
Digweed

[AndyMorris]

Trevor Barton wrote:
>
> Actually, Pool Bank's a big big disincentive. If it wasn't for that
> I'd
> be riding every day. I have tried that, but it's far too knackering.

But you do get to go down pool bank on the way home.

--
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK


Love this:
Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
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[AndyMorris]

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

> Another excuse demolished. Next?

A lot of cagers say they would like to but feel intimidated by the thought
of riding in traffic.


I know its ********, but its a chicken and egg thing.

When your unfit and tense and not flowing traffic is scary, to get fit and
loose and flowing takes experiance.

Me, I'm not bike-comute addicted. I'm starting to wonder about doing the
dads taxi thing with a tandem or a trailer.

--
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK


Love this:
Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
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[Tim Woodall]

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:45:13 +0100,
Matt > wrote:
>
> Err? What is the average cycle commute speed then? I manage around
> 22-25km/h according to my little cyclocomp thing but I pass plenty of other
> cyclists at that speed. I thought that was a respectable speed but now I
> feel all deflated.
>

I manage about 30km/h on the windcheetah and a little bit more on the DF
during the summer months. Winter is slower 27km/h or so on the DF
(I didn't have the windcheetah during the dark months to compare)

From week to week my average speed is fairly constant but individual days
can vary a lot from as little as 16mph going to work (uphill) with a
strong head wind to as much as 25+mph going home with a good tail wind.

My commute is almost exactly 8 miles and gains 50 metres in height
(with a few ups and downs in the middle, total climbing about 120m
according to my GPS)

> If I drove to work I would get there faster but - as previously pointed

My cycle commute is very predictable, 20-30 mins extreme with a usual
24-27mins typical. By car (different route) it can be anything from
16 minutes or so (about half motorway) to 66 minutes+ when someone
has decided to play bumper cars on the motorway again.

Regards,

Tim.


--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

[Dave Larrington]

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

> The thing that gets my goat is people who sit in their cars in the
> traffic every morning as they drive a couple of miles across town and
> moan the whole time about how someone should fix the terrible
> congestion problems. The patent absurdity of blaming the Government
> for the fact that most of the population want to live within fifty
> miles of London and all drive to work at the same time never seems to
> cross their alleged minds.

"Du sitzt nicht im Stau, du BIST der Stau" - graffito on an autobahn bridge
near Mainz. You're not stuck in a jam, you ARE the jam.

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[Dave Larrington]

Matt wrote:

> Err? What is the average cycle commute speed then? I manage around
> 22-25km/h according to my little cyclocomp thing but I pass plenty of
> other cyclists at that speed. I thought that was a respectable speed
> but now I feel all deflated.

My rolling average is usually around 25 km/h. I'm usually doing about 35
km/h over the road, but there are about seventy sets of traffic lights in
the 13.5 km betwixt Larrington Towers and the Nut Mines, which brings the
average down something awful. I /did/ manage 30 km/h once last summer, that
being the morning of the England-Brazil match...

I've never tried the current journey by car during peak hours, but a similar
one a few years ago *never* took under an hour.

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

"Dave Larrington" > wrote in message
...

> there are about seventy sets of traffic lights in
> the 13.5 km betwixt Larrington Towers and the Nut Mines

According to Darth Ian you have so much money you could afford to have the
Nut Mines moved closer, though - or maybe you already paid to have them
moved far enough away to make the commute a worthwhile ride ;-)

--
Guy
===

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[Just zis Guy, you know?]

"Dave Larrington" > wrote in message
...

> > According to Darth Ian you have so much money you could afford to
> > have the Nut Mines moved closer

> I wonder how Darth Ian arrived at /that/ outlandish conclusion?


Something to do with the spec of a particular Baron, I believe :-D

--
Guy
===

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[Dave]

"AndyMorris" > wrote in message
...
> Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
>
> > Another excuse demolished. Next?
>
> A lot of cagers say they would like to but feel intimidated by the thought
> of riding in traffic.
>
>
> I know its ********, but its a chicken and egg thing.
>
> When your unfit and tense and not flowing traffic is scary, to get fit and
> loose and flowing takes experiance.
>
> Me, I'm not bike-comute addicted. I'm starting to wonder about doing the
> dads taxi thing with a tandem or a trailer.
>
> --
> Andy Morris
>
hhhmmm..now there's an idea....certainly put paid to the frequency of
requests and as for the entire team....<clunk...whiirrrr...click>..! By
jove, thanks Andy!!
Dave.

[Thomas]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:00:27 +0100, "Digweed .. ;\)"
> > wrote:
>
> >> Another excuse demolished.
> >Why an excuse ?
>
> Excuse because, as posted, the average speed achieved is less than
> that attainable by even a trundly cyclist. It is the nature of
> averages that some poeple are faster and some slower. It is the
> nature of averages that some journey will be longer than average and
> some shorter.
>
> I wonder how many of those commutes are under 5 miles? That seems to
> me to be a magic number below which even the unfit could easily cycle.

/pipes up

That's me - unfit and a cycle of about 4.5 miles each way. Come into the
office sweating like a pee eye gee, but it's a damned sight better way of
travelling around London than the tube or bus.

Love it, sad but true.

Thomas.

[Simon Proven]

Matt wrote:
> Err? What is the average cycle commute speed then? I manage around
> 22-25km/h according to my little cyclocomp thing but I pass plenty of other
> cyclists at that speed. I thought that was a respectable speed but now I
> feel all deflated.

What's all this newfangled km/h then? I think my fastest in recent
memory ride to work (flat, tailwind) was about 16mph which is about
25kph. My slowest is about 16kph (flat, bad headwind). I could
probably do both faster if I wasn't on a cycle path for much of it,
which is generally slower than the road unless it's very busy.

> I think 11mph is a respectable non cyclist cycle speed (if that makes
> sense).

Nothing wrong with it. I pass most "casual" cyclists, I'm rarely
passed myself.

> If I drove to work I would get there faster but - as previously pointed
> out - in overall life time (get fit, wake up, tan, feel better, anger
> management, etc) it's an improvement. I will appreciate the extra minutes
> cycling gives me overall when I'm flattened by a bus!

Agreed. All this "my car gets me there 10 minutes faster" nonsense
really doesn't mean very much. My ride to work, at fastest, is about
19 minutes, more like 25 normally. A normal drive, at the same time
I usually go in - after rush hour - is about 12.5 minutes. However
leave home just before 9 and it's often 20 minutes, and trying to leave
work at 5.30pm has in the past resulted in a 45 minute wait just to
get onto the main road. (A few hundred yards) Whereas I'd be home
by then, on the bike. It's comparing apples with oranges. When I
was driving to work I had to make a special effort to exercise, eg
go for a swim or cycle. Now it's back to being an automatic part of
my daily routing, and I'm fitter than I've been for ages.

Simon

[Tim Costen]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" > wrote in message >...
> "Dave Larrington" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > > According to Darth Ian you have so much money you could afford to
> > > have the Nut Mines moved closer
>
> > I wonder how Darth Ian arrived at /that/ outlandish conclusion?
>
>
> Something to do with the spec of a particular Baron, I believe :-D

You misunderstand, Guy.

Cost is immeterial when wishing to win the BHPC unfaired
championships.

However, £10 says a bit of fibreglass on the front and a manky old
fabric fairing will enable my tatty old Wasp to burn Mr Larrington's
Baron off this Sunday in Leicester.

Tim 'Bloody English' Costen

[Dave Larrington]

Guy> According to Darth Ian you have so much
Guy> money you could afford to have the Nut Mines
Guy> moved closer

Me> I wonder how Darth Ian arrived at /that/
Me> outlandish conclusion?

Guy> Something to do with the spec of a particular
Guy> Baron, I believe :-D

Tim> You misunderstand, Guy.
Tim> Cost is immeterial when wishing to win the
Tim> BHPC unfaired championships.

Yes. Though note that in order to fund this purchase, I /did/ raise a four
figure sum by flogging my Windcheetah and Kingcycle. A pity, then, that the
winning of the BHPC Unfaired Championship did not go according to plan.
/Bloody/ English...

Tim> However, £10 says a bit of fibreglass on the
Tim> front and a manky old fabric fairing will enable
Tim> my tatty old Wasp to burn Mr Larrington's
Tim> Baron off this Sunday in Leicester.

Very likely, unless I can find my Automatic Front-Wheel Drive Transmission
Nobbler, which worked to such good effect at Curborough and Darley Moor last
year... Or some carpet tacks.

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
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[Just zis Guy, you know?]

"Simon Proven" > wrote in message
...

> What's all this newfangled km/h then?

It's a Brilliant Wheeze for getting a bigger number on your speedo for no
additional effort :-)

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.com

[David Off]

Here are figures for Paris if you are interested. I live in central
Paris - near the Musee d'Orsai and commute to Puteaux, which is on the
western suburbs near la Defence. The trip is about 10km. Paris is
generally warmer and more polluted than London with more dangerous
drivers, although they are probably more tolerant of cyclists.

Here are the forms of transport I have used to get to work and the
average times.

Motorbike: 25 mins
Car: 60 mins
Bus: 50 mins + 20 minutes walk either end
Metro (tube): 30 mins + 15 minutes walk either end
Bicycle (single speed boneshaker): 25 mins
Rollers: 35 mins

What is crazy is that anyone bothers to drive anywhere in Paris... twice
as slow as bike or rollers!

Have more people started cycling in London now you have to pay to go
there by car?

Paris is considering road pricing as a report has shown that traffic
levels will continue to rise unless they take radical steps.

David

[Dave Larrington]

David Off wrote:

> Have more people started cycling in London now you have to pay to go
> there by car?

There certainly /seem/ to be more cyclists in the Kengestion Charge zone,
but maybe it's just becuase they're easier to see now there's fewer tin
boxes in the way...

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========