New car lights

[Simon Mason]

I noticed in this week's Auto Express that a new BMW model, can't recall
which one, is to be fitted with red rear led lights instead of filament
bulbs. I wonder if this new feature will mean that red leds will now be 100%
legal for bikes as well?

--
Simon Mason
Anlaby
East Yorkshire.
53°44'N 0°26'W
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

"Simon Mason" > wrote in message
...

> I noticed in this week's Auto Express that a new BMW model, can't recall
> which one, is to be fitted with red rear led lights instead of filament
> bulbs. I wonder if this new feature will mean that red leds will now be
100%
> legal for bikes as well?

They already are, provided the comply with the relevant British Standard (or
nearest European equivalent) - but not when flashing.

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.com

[Simon Mason]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" > wrote in message
...
> "Simon Mason" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > I noticed in this week's Auto Express that a new BMW model, can't recall
> > which one, is to be fitted with red rear led lights instead of filament
> > bulbs. I wonder if this new feature will mean that red leds will now be
> 100%
> > legal for bikes as well?
>
> They already are, provided the comply with the relevant British Standard
(or
> nearest European equivalent) - but not when flashing.

So has all reference to incandescent filament bulbs been removed from the UK
law?
Simon

[mark]

"Simon Mason" wrote ...
> I noticed in this week's Auto Express that a new BMW model, can't recall
> which one, is to be fitted with red rear led lights instead of filament
> bulbs. I wonder if this new feature will mean that red leds will now be
100%
> legal for bikes as well?
>
> --
> Simon Mason
> Anlaby
> East Yorkshire.
> 53°44'N 0°26'W

I see cars built in various countries, trucks, and busses everywhere here in
the US with LED rear lights, which strikes me as a great improvement over
the filament lights. I've even seen a few police cars with flashing LED
rooftop lights, again a great improvement. Are these not legal in the EU or
in certain countries in the EU?

Lots of LED's on the market for bicycles here too, the trouble is getting
people to use them!
--
mark

[Steve Peake]

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:13:54 +0100, Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

> "Simon Mason" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> I noticed in this week's Auto Express that a new BMW model, can't recall
>> which one, is to be fitted with red rear led lights instead of filament
>> bulbs. I wonder if this new feature will mean that red leds will now be
> 100%
>> legal for bikes as well?
>
> They already are, provided the comply with the relevant British Standard (or
> nearest European equivalent) - but not when flashing.

I've noticed that most modern buses have the LED style rear lamps, both
rear and indicator.

Steve

[Pete Biggs]

mark wrote:
> I see cars built in various countries, trucks, and busses everywhere
> here in the US with LED rear lights, which strikes me as a great
> improvement over the filament lights.

I've seen them here in the UK on buses and they don't show up as well in
bright sunlight. I don't like them.

~PB

[Arthur Clune]

Simon Mason > wrote:

: So has all reference to incandescent filament bulbs been removed from the UK
: law?

Dunno about all law, but for bicycles, LEDs are now legal since either the
law or the British Standard (I forgot which) was altered to exclude
references to blubs (ISTR it was the British Standard that needed
altering not the law, but I may have it the wrong way round)

Arthur

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

"Arthur Clune" > wrote in message
...
> Simon Mason > wrote:

> Dunno about all law, but for bicycles, LEDs are now legal since either the
> law or the British Standard (I forgot which) was altered to exclude
> references to blubs (ISTR it was the British Standard that needed
> altering not the law, but I may have it the wrong way round)


Both, I think - the law invoked an old standard.

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.com

[the Mark]

Steve Peake wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:13:54 +0100, Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
>
>> "Simon Mason" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> I noticed in this week's Auto Express that a new BMW model, can't
>>> recall which one, is to be fitted with red rear led lights instead
>>> of filament bulbs. I wonder if this new feature will mean that red
>>> leds will now be 100% legal for bikes as well?
>>
>> They already are, provided the comply with the relevant British
>> Standard (or nearest European equivalent) - but not when flashing.
>
> I've noticed that most modern buses have the LED style rear lamps,
> both
> rear and indicator.
>
> Steve

I noticed that to. They are expletively bright.
--
Mark
Road bike, Mountain bike and
I'm getting something special built for me (I hope it will arrive soon).

[Graeme]

(Chris Malcolm) wrote in
:

> If reaction time mattered that much, then car brake pedals wouldn't be
> operated by the heaviest limb in the body situated at the furthest
> distance from the brain. That has a pretty significant effect on
> braking reaction times. It's a really dumb piece of ergonomics.

That's probably just a hang over from the original design. Non-power
assisted brakes need a fair bit of power and your leg is one of the only
ways of operating them with enough strength. These days though you could
maybe operate it some other way, the trouble would be the transistion
period of getting people who are used to a foot operated brake to operating
a (possibly) hand operated brake.

Maybe have it voice activated, with an emergency stop initiated by a scream
of "Aaaaagh, get out the way!" :-)

Have fun!

Graeme

[AndyK]

> I noticed in this week's Auto Express that a new BMW model, can't recall
> which one, is to be fitted with red rear led lights instead of filament
> bulbs. I wonder if this new feature will mean that red leds will now be
100%
> legal for bikes as well?
>
> --
> Simon Mason
> Anlaby
> East Yorkshire.
> 53°44'N 0°26'W
> http://www.simonmason.karoo.net
>

We're in Europe now remember, so I don't think it would be possible to nail
a cyclist for using LED lights as long as they'd be acceptable for use
elsewhere on the continent. That's my excuse, M'lud.

Regarding BMWs, are the indicators still optional extras? :-)

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 12:02:53 +0100, (Nick
Kew) wrote:

>A few weeks ago I got stopped for using LEDs. Specifically for having a
>LED on the front; they were happy with the back one (which was flashing).
>In fairness, the front one was indeed feeble.

No BS approved front light? Illegal. There is talk of making
flashing LEDs legal but it prolly won't come to much - for some
discussion see
<http://www.chapmancentral.com/Web/public.nsf/Documents/rvlr>

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony.
http://www.chapmancentral.com
[currently offline awaiting ADSL transfer to new ISP]

[MD]

Steve Peake wrote:

> I've noticed that most modern buses have the LED style rear lamps,
> both
> rear and indicator.
>
> Steve

Sporty motorbikes using them for brake lights for a couple of years
now - the Yamaha R1/R6 spring to mind as having them.

And I have a Cateye LED which is BS marked, and according to the
instructions, BS-approved when in steady mode.

--

Regards,

Mark Davies

[David Hansen]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:08:38 +0100 someone who may be "AndyK"
> wrote this:-

>We're in Europe now remember,

The UK has been in Europe for rather longer than I can remember.

>so I don't think it would be possible to nail
>a cyclist for using LED lights as long as they'd be acceptable for use
>elsewhere on the continent.

Provided they meet or exceed the standard in another EU country then
there is no legal problem. I imagine this dates from Mrs Thatcher
passing the Single European Act through the Westminster rogues'
gallery. Only Little Englanders stick to British Standards and all
that nonsense.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

[David Hansen]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 18:59:26 +0100 someone who may be "Just zis Guy,
you know?" > wrote this:-

>No BS approved front light? Illegal.

Incorrect.

Provided an LED front light meets the standards in another EU
country it is legal to use in the UK. British Standard? So what? Mrs
Thatcher was responsible for this I gather, strangely enough.

If the light is not approved for use in any EU country *then* it is
illegal.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

[marc]

Graeme > wrote:

> Maybe have it voice activated, with an emergency stop initiated by a scream
> of "Aaaaagh, get out the way!" :-)

With an "easter egg" that applied the brakes to a stop for 5 minutes
whenever "Get on the cycle path!" was heard?


--
Marc
Stickers,decals,membership,cards, T shirts, signs etc
for clubs and associations of all types.
http://www.jaceeprint.demon.co.uk/

[Ian Smith]

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:42:19 +0100, MD > wrote:

> And I have a Cateye LED which is BS marked, and according to the
> instructions, BS-approved when in steady mode.

BS approved does not mean legal, though. The law refers to a specific
version of a specific BS, and LEDs will not meet that BS, because it
specifies filament lamps.

However, you can now be legal without satisfying the BS - courtesy of
the EU.

Incidently, your cateye _won't_ be BS if you've fitted it with teh
standard bracket (the one that adjusts for size by means of a
cable-tie like mechanism). Somehow the BS manages to make that type
bracket not qualify, so you need to buy the alternative style bracket
(which comes in various sizes to accomodate different size tubes).
Little point in doing that, though, since meetinmgthe current BS does
you less good (legally) than meeting teh German standards, which do
not object to LEDs.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

"David Hansen" > wrote in message
...

> >No BS approved front light? Illegal.

> Incorrect.

OK - no BS /or equivalent/ approved front light. But... if you ride with
rechargeable lighitng systems which do not meet the BS you are on shaky
ground - I have discussed this at length with Chris Juden. Merely having a
CE mark means nothing (as we probably all know) - it must be marked as
meeting the local road vehicle lighting regs in an UE country.

However, I was referring (clumsily) to the proposal option B4 in the RVLR
amendment consultation to allow the replacement of any mandatory lamp with a
flashing LED of the correct colour.

> Mrs Thatcher was responsible for this I gather

Not as far as I understand it, she was just PM at the time; it was an EU
initiative.

> If the light is not approved for use in any EU country *then* it is
> illegal.

Road use, note - as I say the CE mark is worthless.

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.com

[David Hansen]

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:48:07 +0100 someone who may be "Just zis Guy,
you know?" > wrote this:-

>OK - no BS /or equivalent/ approved front light. But... if you ride with
>rechargeable lighitng systems which do not meet the BS you are on shaky
>ground

Why? As long as they are approved in an EU country.

>it must be marked as
>meeting the local road vehicle lighting regs in an UE country.

It must meet the regulations in an EU country. Marking is a separate
issue.

>> Mrs Thatcher was responsible for this I gather
>
>Not as far as I understand it, she was just PM at the time; it was an EU
>initiative.

She could have vetoed the whole thing. From memory one of the many
things the Single European Act did was to agree to the proposal for
Qualified Majority Voting, amongst many other things.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.