Re: My bike's a pain! (Invest in modifying or start afresh?)

[Velvet]

Tim Downie wrote:

> One of my bikes is a thing of beauty and a joy to behold. It's a hand-built
> sports tourer that I had made for me in days of yore when I had more
> disposable income than sense.
>
> Unfortunately it's probably true to say that it was built to be better on
> the eye than on the bum and the wrists as these days, I find it an almost
> unbearably hearsh ride. The combination of 1" hp tyres, 531st frame tubing,
> 73 degree head tube, 74 degree seat tube and stainless steel spokes probably
> all contributing to horrible wrist jarring.
>
> There's no doubt that it wasn't always this bad (when I had slightly wider
> tyres on it) but it's always been pretty harsh.
>
> I have upgraded the gear changers etc. over the years but I'm wondering if
> there's anything I can do other than a tyre change and bar change to improve
> the level of wrist jarring. Would a change of spokes (i.e., not S/S) make
> any difference? At present it has traditional drop bars (the kind that
> curve up slightly as you move away from the stem). The way it is at present
> I really don't feel safe descending anything other than billiard table
> smooth hills.
>
> I'm torn between saying "Sod it!" and buying a complete new off the peg bike
> and modifying this one. I'm not a high mileage cyclist by any means and
> this particular bike only gets dusted off occasionally but it is, in theory,
> my fastest bike and I'm keen to have at least one "fast" bike in my stable.
>
> So, any thoughts on whether I should ditch it or modify it, and if the
> latter, what would be the most cost effective modifications.
>
> Tim
>
Get higher bars to take some weight off the wrists?

Velvet

[Pete Biggs]

Tim Downie wrote:
.............
> I find it an almost unbearably hearsh ride. The combination of 1" hp
> tyres, 531st frame tubing, 73 degree head tube, 74 degree seat tube
> and stainless steel spokes probably all contributing to horrible
> wrist jarring.

The best spokes are stainless steel. ALL conventional-type spokes are
steel.

> There's no doubt that it wasn't always this bad (when I had slightly
> wider tyres on it) but it's always been pretty harsh.
>
> I have upgraded the gear changers etc. over the years but I'm
> wondering if there's anything I can do other than a tyre change and
> bar change to improve the level of wrist jarring. Would a change of
> spokes (i.e., not S/S) make any difference?

No.

> At present it has
> traditional drop bars (the kind that curve up slightly as you move
> away from the stem). The way it is at present I really don't feel
> safe descending anything other than billiard table smooth hills.

Better tyres (and care not to over-inflate: front tyre does not need to be
at "max" pressure) and better handlebar position will have the most
effect. Different tilt, height and/or different stem may help. Also try
another layer of tape or padded handlebar tape and gel mitts.

> I'm torn between saying "Sod it!" and buying a complete new off the
> peg bike and modifying this one. I'm not a high mileage cyclist by
> any means and this particular bike only gets dusted off occasionally
> but it is, in theory, my fastest bike and I'm keen to have at least
> one "fast" bike in my stable.

That maybe part of the problem - you're not riding it enough to get used
to it or to have enough opportunity to experiment and work out what's
wrong.

> So, any thoughts on whether I should ditch it or modify it, and if the
> latter, what would be the most cost effective modifications.

I say stick with it it the frame is the right size & shape for you and
most components are in good condition.

~PB

[Pete Biggs]

Tim Downie wrote:

> Ah, just wondered. I had vague memories of comments about SS spokes
> not being as "springy" at the time.

That could be true but any difference at all in spokes to ride comfort
will be very, very tiny compared to all the other factors. Double butted
spokes do indeed have a damping effect - but I think those effects are
microscopic and are used really to reduce fatigue to the spokes to make
them last longer (and also to reduce weight).

> I probably am guilty of over (or at least "max") inflating in the
> seach for mimum rolling resistance. I shall mend my ways forthwith
> and revert to wider/better tyres. Do some tyres (of the same width)
> give a easier ride than others (or is it pretty much down to
> pressure)?

It's mostly down to pressure, but tyres with thinner casing and tread (and
a higher threads per inch count) will be more supple so more comfortable.
Basically, the more expensive racing tyres give a better ride - although
they're not available in wide sizes (but the difference in feel can be
enough to make up for this). If cost and puncture resistance is a
concern, it might be worth getting one for the front only because front
tyres get an easier life and last longer.

I used to have the same obsession with "hard tyres = low rr" but I was
forgetting the simple fact that front tyres don't take so much weight as
rears, plus there's a limit where there's no more to be gained because the
tyre is bouncing about too much rather than /rolling/ over the bumps.
Also, softer = more grip: more grip may save your life!

I didn't mean to completely put you off the idea of a new bike because a
new modern bike could be better all-round if you could afford a really
good one, but I certainly think the old one is worth some more
perseverance first. I'm pleased I kept my 1985 bike which I've recently
done up.

~PB

[Neil]

"Velvet" > wrote in message
...
> Tim Downie wrote:
>
> > One of my bikes is a thing of beauty and a joy to behold. It's a
hand-built
> > sports tourer that I had made for me in days of yore when I had more
> > disposable income than sense.
> >
> > Unfortunately it's probably true to say that it was built to be better
on
> > the eye than on the bum and the wrists as these days, I find it an
almost
> > unbearably hearsh ride. The combination of 1" hp tyres, 531st frame
tubing,
> > 73 degree head tube, 74 degree seat tube and stainless steel spokes
probably
> > all contributing to horrible wrist jarring.
> >
> > There's no doubt that it wasn't always this bad (when I had slightly
wider
> > tyres on it) but it's always been pretty harsh.
> >
> > I have upgraded the gear changers etc. over the years but I'm wondering
if
> > there's anything I can do other than a tyre change and bar change to
improve
> > the level of wrist jarring. Would a change of spokes (i.e., not S/S)
make
> > any difference? At present it has traditional drop bars (the kind that
> > curve up slightly as you move away from the stem). The way it is at
present
> > I really don't feel safe descending anything other than billiard table
> > smooth hills.
> >
> > I'm torn between saying "Sod it!" and buying a complete new off the peg
bike
> > and modifying this one. I'm not a high mileage cyclist by any means and
> > this particular bike only gets dusted off occasionally but it is, in
theory,
> > my fastest bike and I'm keen to have at least one "fast" bike in my
stable.
> >
> > So, any thoughts on whether I should ditch it or modify it, and if the
> > latter, what would be the most cost effective modifications.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> Get higher bars to take some weight off the wrists?
>
Get two layers of bar tape put on with some cinelli shock absorbers
underneath. Using axial pro tyres makes for a smooth ride, even when
inflated hard, you can get them cheap these days since they've been
superceded.

[Dave]

"Tim Downie" > wrote in message
...
> One of my bikes is a thing of beauty and a joy to behold. It's a
hand-built
> sports tourer that I had made for me in days of yore when I had more
> disposable income than sense.
>
> Unfortunately it's probably true to say that it was built to be better on
> the eye than on the bum and the wrists as these days, I find it an almost
> unbearably hearsh ride. The combination of 1" hp tyres, 531st frame
tubing,
> 73 degree head tube, 74 degree seat tube and stainless steel spokes
probably
> all contributing to horrible wrist jarring.
>
> There's no doubt that it wasn't always this bad (when I had slightly wider
> tyres on it) but it's always been pretty harsh.
>
> I have upgraded the gear changers etc. over the years but I'm wondering if
> there's anything I can do other than a tyre change and bar change to
improve
> the level of wrist jarring. Would a change of spokes (i.e., not S/S) make
> any difference? At present it has traditional drop bars (the kind that
> curve up slightly as you move away from the stem). The way it is at
present
> I really don't feel safe descending anything other than billiard table
> smooth hills.
>
> I'm torn between saying "Sod it!" and buying a complete new off the peg
bike
> and modifying this one. I'm not a high mileage cyclist by any means and
> this particular bike only gets dusted off occasionally but it is, in
theory,
> my fastest bike and I'm keen to have at least one "fast" bike in my
stable.
>
> So, any thoughts on whether I should ditch it or modify it, and if the
> latter, what would be the most cost effective modifications.
>
> Tim
>
> --
> Time for a new sig.
>

If a lot of the discomfort is hands / handlebars / wrists, then I found a
length of foam pipe insulation cable-tied into place provide sufficient
relief.
HTH,
Dave.

[iddqdATworldonline.dk]

Tim Downie wrote:
> So, any thoughts on whether I should ditch it or modify it, and if the
> latter, what would be the most cost effective modifications.
>
Carbon handlebar and/or carbon fork, sucks up vibrations pretty good.

Kind regards

Bruno

[Tim Downie]

Thanks to all for your various bits of advice. Nothing mind-blowingly
complicated about any of it but I've been out today and bought some new 28mm
tyres, Shimano SPD pedals and shoes and some more tape for the bars. In
addition I've raised the bars by about 3/4 of an inch.

With everything fitted and the front tyre running a bit softer than I
usually run it, the whole bike feels transformed. Of course a lot of it's
down to the novelty of the SPD pedals (which are a lot easier to get on with
than I was expecting) but there's no doubt there's a vast improvement in the
wrist jarring and I no longer feel like flinging it in a ditch.

I feel a trip round Arran coming on....

Cheers.

Tim
--
Time for a new sig.

[Richard Bates]

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:55:07 +0100, "Tim Downie"
> in
> wrote:

>I feel a trip round Arran coming on....

Don't go too fast: you might get too sweatery.
--
If ingnorance is bliss then I am the erm er
luckiest thingy in the whatchamacallit.
To mail me, change the obvious bit to richard

[Maureen]

"Tim Downie" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks to all for your various bits of advice. Nothing mind-blowingly
> complicated about any of it but I've been out today and bought some new 28mm
> tyres, Shimano SPD pedals and shoes and some more tape for the bars. In
> addition I've raised the bars by about 3/4 of an inch.
>
> With everything fitted and the front tyre running a bit softer than I
> usually run it, the whole bike feels transformed. Of course a lot of it's
> down to the novelty of the SPD pedals (which are a lot easier to get on with
> than I was expecting) but there's no doubt there's a vast improvement in the
> wrist jarring and I no longer feel like flinging it in a ditch.
>
> I feel a trip round Arran coming on....
>
> Cheers.
>
> Tim
> --
> Time for a new sig.


Ahhhhhhh, see I knew that being a Scot you would be too stingy to actually
shell out on a new bike (-;

Just joking. Hope it gives a welcome change from the running.

Maureen

[Tim Downie]

Maureen wrote:
>
> Ahhhhhhh, see I knew that being a Scot you would be too stingy to
> actually shell out on a new bike (-;

No no, I *like* spending money. Trouble is, me and this bike go back a long
way and although I did hate it, I'm still perversly attached to it (or at
least until I can get my feet out of these fr*gging pedals! ;-)

> Just joking. Hope it gives a welcome change from the running.

Running is still the one *true* sport. Cycling is just a mechanised way of
cheating at exercise. ;-)

Cheers,

Tim

--
Time for a new sig.

[Taywood]

>
> >I feel a trip round Arran coming on....
>
> Don't go too fast: you might get too sweatery.

After at least an hour spent daydreaming of me one day
going back to Arran, I suddenly realised why he shouldnt
ride too fast.
Mmmm

[Tim Downie]

Tony W wrote:
> "Tim Downie" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Running is still the one *true* sport. Cycling is just a mechanised
>> way of cheating at exercise. ;-)
>
> Running should be outlawed as contrary to the Convention on Human
> Rights. It is terminally boring, nasty, painful and an abuse of the
> human spirit.

Absolutely. Call me a pervert but that's why I like it.

> In contrast, cycling is freedom and delight.

I will remind the next cyclist I jog past whilst he/she is labouring up a
hill of that fact. ;-)

Tim

--
Time for a new sig.

[RJ Webb]

>Running should be outlawed as contrary to the Convention on Human Rights.
>It is terminally boring, nasty, painful and an abuse of the human spirit.
>
If done correctly - in an unfamiliar forest and off the tracks it is
an utter delight.

Richard Webb

[Tim Downie]

Richard Bates wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:55:07 +0100, "Tim Downie"
> > in
> > wrote:
>
>> I feel a trip round Arran coming on....
>
> Don't go too fast: you might get too sweatery.

Well, I finally made the trip to Arran yesterday. Wednesday's weather had
been absolutely horrid and I was very relieved when the day dawned bright
and clear.

Caught the 9:40 ferry over and enjoyed a very nice anti-clockwise trip round
the island (It's a bit like a grown up version of Millport, isn't it?). I'm
still left feeling that cycling (at least on my tourer) as exercise is
cheating though. Not sure that my two cycling companions (two teenage lads
on Halfords fully suspended, MTBs) would have agreed however. They looked
pretty cream crackered by the time we got back to Brodick. ;-)

Tim

--
Time for a new sig.

[Peter Clinch]

Tim Downie wrote:

> Caught the 9:40 ferry over and enjoyed a very nice anti-clockwise trip round
> the island (It's a bit like a grown up version of Millport, isn't it?). I'm
> still left feeling that cycling (at least on my tourer) as exercise is
> cheating though.

Rather than just the circuit, put in the yellow road that turns inland
out of Lamlash. Soon you get to the 1:6 section, though that's not too
long, but then it's continuous climbing of about 1000'. The B road that
comes back over into Glen Rosa is "only" about 750' of ascent, but with
fewer sharp, blind bends on the descent it's a lot faster coming down.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Tim Downie]

Peter Clinch wrote:
> Tim Downie wrote:
>
>> Caught the 9:40 ferry over and enjoyed a very nice anti-clockwise
>> trip round the island (It's a bit like a grown up version of
>> Millport, isn't it?). I'm still left feeling that cycling (at least
>> on my tourer) as exercise is cheating though.
>
> Rather than just the circuit, put in the yellow road that turns inland
> out of Lamlash. Soon you get to the 1:6 section, though that's not
> too
> long, but then it's continuous climbing of about 1000'. The B road
> that comes back over into Glen Rosa is "only" about 750' of ascent,
> but with
> fewer sharp, blind bends on the descent it's a lot faster coming down.

Given enough time, of course I'd like to do all the roads on Arran but for a
first trip the idea of circumnavigating the island was too irresistable. I
think it's the Viking thing about being able to "claim" an island by sailing
all the way round it. Arran is now "mine" ;-)

Tim

--
Time for a new sig.

[Peter Clinch]

Tim Downie wrote:

> Given enough time, of course I'd like to do all the roads on Arran but for a
> first trip the idea of circumnavigating the island was too irresistable. I
> think it's the Viking thing about being able to "claim" an island by sailing
> all the way round it. Arran is now "mine" ;-)

When I went to cycle there it was the "shakedown cruise" for the
Streetmachine, with 4 panniers of camping gear to see what I could get
up and over when loaded up. So tempting though the circumnavigation
was, I felt if I could get over the Big Hill out of Lamlash then I'd
know I'd bought the right bike! There's still a surprising amount of up
and down on the "ring road" though...

I'll be back to do the loop at some point, or if I'm feeling
particularly mad a more contrived figure 8 sort of exercise!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Peter Clinch]

Tim Downie wrote:
> Peter Clinch wrote:

>>I'll be back to do the loop at some point, or if I'm feeling
>>particularly mad a more contrived figure 8 sort of exercise!

> Now there's a thought. When do you fancy doing it? It would add what,
> about 15 miles? (assuming you'd do the String road twice)

Hang on Tim, I'm not feeling mad (or fit!) enough yet... An extra 15
miles is one thing, an extra 1750' of climbing is rather another! But
I'm already set on going back sometime for rock climbing and cycling
anyway, but with the recent weather I think I'll at least wait for the
midges to have abated if I'm staying an extra day camping for routes up
Chir Mhor.

Or another thought would be borrow the Kinetics Speedmachine for a
"quick spin", if the ferries can match up with Ben's opening times!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Tim Downie]

Steve McGinty wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:11:25 +0100, "Tim Downie"

> I think Peter was meaning the Ross Road, which is just south of
> Lamlash and is the "other" road (in addition to the String) which runs
> across the island.

Ah, I see. Well the other one is pretty steep too (if not as long).
>
> I would recommend anyone "doing" the island to go clockwise as you get
> rid of the lumpy stuff early and only have the big climb out of
> Lochranza left to worry about - and you'll usually get a tailwind up
> it.

We chose anti-clockwise on the basis that the prevailing wing that day was
from the north-west. That way we had a gentle tailwind helping us down most
of the west coast and were relatively sheltered from it on the east. In
addition, I think we were glad that we *hadn't* met all those hills in the
first third of the ride. I think the boys might have bottled out at
Blackwaterfoot if we had gone that way!

Cheers.

Tim

--
Time for a new sig.

[the Mark]

Jose Marques wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, Tim Downie wrote:
>
>> first trip the idea of circumnavigating the island was too
>> irresistable. I think it's the Viking thing about being able
>> to "claim" an island by sailing all the way round it. Arran
>> is now "mine" ;-)
>
> From: http://www.kintyre.org/
>
> -8<- cut here
> Why are we Scotlands Only Mainland Island?
>
> According to Norse sagas, King Magnus Barelegs, while trying to
> re-establish control over parts of western Scotland reached an
> agreement
> with King Malcolm of Scotland that Magnus could have all the
> islands off
> the west coast of Scotland round which he could sail his boat.
>
> Determined to have the Kintyre Peninsula as well, King Magnus
> had his warriors drag a Viking longboat across the narrow
> isthmus at the northern
> end of the peninsula.
>
> The king himself sat down in the poop and took hold of the
> helm-ball and
> thus he got possession of all the coasts lying on the larboard
> side. The Magnus Saga.
>
> Kintyre had indeed become an island!
>
> While the same feat was repeated by King Robert the Bruce in
> the 14th
> Century it does seem likely that it was fairly common for
> small boats to
> be dragged across the isthmus to save the long and dangerous
> voyage around the Mull of Kintyre.

Magnus Bare Legs is apparently responsible for the deforestation
of Harris.
It makes cycling there tough - no trees to stop the atlantic
winds. :-)
--
Mark

[Jose Marques]

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, Peter Clinch wrote:

> Rather than just the circuit, put in the yellow road that turns inland
> out of Lamlash.

That's one I'd like to do next. Last weekend I did the north part of the
island anti-clockwise (Lochranza - Blackwater Foot - String Road - Brodick
- Lochranza) on a Brompton. Great fun. The last climb out of North
Sannox towards Lochranza is a killer though.

--
Jose Marques

[Peter Clinch]

Jose Marques wrote:

>>Rather than just the circuit, put in the yellow road that turns inland
>>out of Lamlash.

> That's one I'd like to do next. Last weekend I did the north part of the
> island anti-clockwise (Lochranza - Blackwater Foot - String Road - Brodick
> - Lochranza) on a Brompton. Great fun. The last climb out of North
> Sannox towards Lochranza is a killer though.

If you can get up the above on a Brom, or at least one that hasn't had
serious re-gearing, I'll be very impressed! But even if you do end up
walking, the scenery is glorious.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Jose Marques]

On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Peter Clinch wrote:

> If you can get up the above on a Brom, or at least one that hasn't had
> serious re-gearing, I'll be very impressed!

I used an L6 with speed-drive. However, I am a 15 and a bit stone fat
git.

--
Jose Marques