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Anton Gibbs
July 30th 03, 09:12 PM
Hi there. Just bought a Dawes Audax tourer. All very nice except the top
gear seems a bit low. I checked and it is 52:12; the spec (on the web site)
says 52:11 which makes quite a difference. I am hoping the dealer will
change it for me. Anyone know where I stand ? TIA.

Velvet
July 30th 03, 09:28 PM
Anton Gibbs wrote:
> Hi there. Just bought a Dawes Audax tourer. All very nice except the top
> gear seems a bit low. I checked and it is 52:12; the spec (on the web site)
> says 52:11 which makes quite a difference. I am hoping the dealer will
> change it for me. Anyone know where I stand ? TIA.
>
>
I have one of these (dawes audax). I'll go look later, but I know my
flightdeck reckons it to be a 12, but it's possible I put in the inside
and outside from the spec, and only checked the marks on the other ones...

Velvet

Velvet
July 30th 03, 09:30 PM
Anton Gibbs wrote:

> Hi there. Just bought a Dawes Audax tourer. All very nice except the top
> gear seems a bit low. I checked and it is 52:12; the spec (on the web site)
> says 52:11 which makes quite a difference. I am hoping the dealer will
> change it for me. Anyone know where I stand ? TIA.
>
>
Oh, have to ask though - I've yet to get into more than the first few on
the biggest chainring, despite managing some fast (for me) downhills and
straights. What sort of speed difference would the 11 make over the 12,
at, say, 80rpm?

Velvet

Ewan
July 30th 03, 10:03 PM
Velvet wrote:

> Anton Gibbs wrote:
>
>> Hi there. Just bought a Dawes Audax tourer. All very nice except the top
>> gear seems a bit low. I checked and it is 52:12; the spec (on the web
>> site)
>> says 52:11 which makes quite a difference. I am hoping the dealer will
>> change it for me. Anyone know where I stand ? TIA.
>>
>>
> Oh, have to ask though - I've yet to get into more than the first few on
> the biggest chainring, despite managing some fast (for me) downhills and
> straights. What sort of speed difference would the 11 make over the 12,
> at, say, 80rpm?

80rpm, 700x28 tyre with a circumferance of 2140mm
52x12 = 44.5kph
52x11 = 48.6kph

To be honest though, I would up my cadence a bit more than 80rpm,
probably closer to 90 and at 30mph maybe even a bit more (100pm probably)

eat

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Anton Gibbs
July 30th 03, 10:07 PM
Couldn't say about exact speed but the difference is about 10% which is
quite significant. I certainly noticed the difference over my previous bike
which was 52:11.

"Velvet" > wrote in message
...
> Oh, have to ask though - I've yet to get into more than the first few on
> the biggest chainring, despite managing some fast (for me) downhills and
> straights. What sort of speed difference would the 11 make over the 12,
> at, say, 80rpm?
>
> Velvet
>

Velvet
July 30th 03, 10:09 PM
Velvet wrote:

> Anton Gibbs wrote:
>
>> Hi there. Just bought a Dawes Audax tourer. All very nice except the top
>> gear seems a bit low. I checked and it is 52:12; the spec (on the web
>> site)
>> says 52:11 which makes quite a difference. I am hoping the dealer will
>> change it for me. Anyone know where I stand ? TIA.
>>
>>
> Oh, have to ask though - I've yet to get into more than the first few on
> the biggest chainring, despite managing some fast (for me) downhills and
> straights. What sort of speed difference would the 11 make over the 12,
> at, say, 80rpm?
>
> Velvet
>

It's a 12 on mine. I looked on the shimano website (it being the tiagra
set) and found it was a bit odd based on their figures, which was what
prompted me to ID all the sprockets to put them into the flightdeck.

Velvet

chris French
July 30th 03, 10:23 PM
In message >, Anton Gibbs
> writes
>Hi there. Just bought a Dawes Audax tourer. All very nice except the top
>gear seems a bit low. I checked and it is 52:12; the spec (on the web site)
>says 52:11 which makes quite a difference. I am hoping the dealer will
>change it for me. Anyone know where I stand ? TIA.
>

A good dealer may well be happy to change the cassette for you anyway.

But legally a lot could depend on exactly how the transaction was
carried out. In principle if the bike you bought is not the one you had
a contract with the dealer to buy then yes you have a claim in principle
against the dealer., however life isn't always that simple of
course........

Catalogues normally have some sort of 'we reserve the right to change
the specs of the product etc.'. some websites do as well, but they are
an interesting case as of course the content isn't fixed - the specs
there on one day could be totally different the next.

Anyway, my understanding of this (I could easily be wrong) is that
unless you specify in someway that the bike must match the spec in the
advert then this is considered just to be a guide as to the product. so
if you said, I want the bike to be like this in the catalogue and the
dealer agreed , but then the bike wasn't then the situation is pretty
clear.

Did you see and buy the bike in the shop from existing stock, or was it
ordered in, or was it bought mail order. Did you clarify the spec of the
bike with the retailer in anyway?

TBH, I doubt unless you did then legally you haven't got much to go on.

The trading standards site has lots of info on your right when buying
good and services.

<http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/>
--
Chris French, Leeds

MarkK
July 30th 03, 11:38 PM
"Anton Gibbs" > wrote in message
...
> Hi there. Just bought a Dawes Audax tourer. All very nice except the top
> gear seems a bit low. I checked and it is 52:12; the spec (on the web
site)
> says 52:11 which makes quite a difference. I am hoping the dealer will
> change it for me. Anyone know where I stand ? TIA.

I have one of these, a 2001 model I think (bought 2nd hand, virtually
unused). I don't think they changed much in 2002, but there are several
changes in the 2003 model - 631 frame tubing vs 531c for a start. Mine has a
12 tooth smallest rear. Are you sure you weren't sold an old model?

I regularly hit 30-35mph on my commute and am not aware of pedalling
excessively fast.

www.evanscycles.com is still advertising the 2002 model at £600 in 3 sizes,
by the way.

Mark

Anton Gibbs
July 31st 03, 08:50 PM
Yeah, I know what you mean re. the small print. (We reserve the right....
etc.). In previous times having out-of-date brochures was bad enough but
these days having duff info on a website is inexcusable really. Anyway, I
spoke to the dealer today who said he would get in touch with Dawes and find
out what was going on. I am hoping they will change it out of goodwill/in
return for the £800 I gave them :-) I have already told them I am bringing
it back to get the handlebars raised but that is another story...

"chris French" > wrote in message
...
> In message >, Anton Gibbs
> > writes
> >Hi there. Just bought a Dawes Audax tourer. All very nice except the top
> >gear seems a bit low. I checked and it is 52:12; the spec (on the web
site)
> >says 52:11 which makes quite a difference. I am hoping the dealer will
> >change it for me. Anyone know where I stand ? TIA.
> >
>
> A good dealer may well be happy to change the cassette for you anyway.
>
> But legally a lot could depend on exactly how the transaction was
> carried out. In principle if the bike you bought is not the one you had
> a contract with the dealer to buy then yes you have a claim in principle
> against the dealer., however life isn't always that simple of
> course........
>
> Catalogues normally have some sort of 'we reserve the right to change
> the specs of the product etc.'. some websites do as well, but they are
> an interesting case as of course the content isn't fixed - the specs
> there on one day could be totally different the next.
>
> Anyway, my understanding of this (I could easily be wrong) is that
> unless you specify in someway that the bike must match the spec in the
> advert then this is considered just to be a guide as to the product. so
> if you said, I want the bike to be like this in the catalogue and the
> dealer agreed , but then the bike wasn't then the situation is pretty
> clear.
>
> Did you see and buy the bike in the shop from existing stock, or was it
> ordered in, or was it bought mail order. Did you clarify the spec of the
> bike with the retailer in anyway?
>
> TBH, I doubt unless you did then legally you haven't got much to go on.
>
> The trading standards site has lots of info on your right when buying
> good and services.
>
> <http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/>
> --
> Chris French, Leeds

Alex Graham
July 31st 03, 08:57 PM
Anton Gibbs wrote:
> Hi there. Just bought a Dawes Audax tourer. All very nice except the top
> gear seems a bit low. I checked and it is 52:12; the spec (on the web site)
> says 52:11 which makes quite a difference. I am hoping the dealer will
> change it for me. Anyone know where I stand ? TIA.
>
>

Blimey. 52-13 is the top gear on my geared bike and I have only ever
used it on _very_ large hills!

--

-Alex

----------------------------------


http://alexpg.ath.cx:3353/cycling.php
http://www.westerleycycling.org.uk
----------------------------------

Pete Biggs
July 31st 03, 09:23 PM
Anton Gibbs wrote:
> Hi there. Just bought a Dawes Audax tourer. All very nice except the
> top gear seems a bit low. I checked and it is 52:12; the spec (on the
> web site) says 52:11 which makes quite a difference.

Blimey, 52 x 12 is a very high gear already! 52 x 11 would be ridiculous
on most road race bikes, let alone audaxes, in my opinion. Wide-range
cassettes staring with 11T are designed for bikes with compact chainsets
with small rings (typically with 42T big ring). It's a waste to use these
with road chainsets. Dawes are stupid for specifying one. In fact, the
52 ring is on the large side as well but that's what is supplied as
standard with low/mid-range triple cranksets.

The top gear is good enough for more than 35mph if you spin properly, and
for the steepest downhills, the highest speeds are achieved by
freewheeling. If you need higher cruising gears the the outer ring can be
used more (or middle ring could be replaced for a larger one).

I have 52 x 13 on my road bike (and it wasn't long ago when freewheels
only ever went up to 13). A higher gear might be nice occasionally but so
much more value is had from the lower gears and a closer ratio cassette
with smaller jumps between the gears.

I strongly suggest keeping the existing gears and using a higher cadence -
more efficient and better for the knees.

But if you disagree and still want the other cassette, the dealer may well
be willing to swap it for no no charge once the catalogue spec is pointed
out to them - worth a try (and it is an easy job, physically). I doubt
there's any legal obligation because Dawes probably state that their specs
are "subject to change" and presumably you had a chance to examine goods
or ask questions before buying.

~PB

Anton Gibbs
July 31st 03, 09:25 PM
Hmm, old model eh ? Well, I certainly paid the new model price :(

I saw the Evans ad. for £600 but thought: No, I will pay the extra and go to
a dealer for that extra service...

The gearing thing is niggling me because I can notice the difference
compared to my old (25 year old!) bike and also against my mates when we
cycle together. The difference between 52:11 and 52:12 is pretty noticeable.
I was pretty dissappointed when I found out you couldn't adjust the
handlebars...


"MarkK" > wrote in message
...
> I have one of these, a 2001 model I think (bought 2nd hand, virtually
> unused). I don't think they changed much in 2002, but there are several
> changes in the 2003 model - 631 frame tubing vs 531c for a start. Mine has
a
> 12 tooth smallest rear. Are you sure you weren't sold an old model?
>
> I regularly hit 30-35mph on my commute and am not aware of pedalling
> excessively fast.
>
> www.evanscycles.com is still advertising the 2002 model at £600 in 3
sizes,
> by the way.
>
> Mark
>
>

Pete Biggs
July 31st 03, 09:28 PM
Alex Graham wrote:

> Blimey. 52-13 is the top gear on my geared bike and I have only ever
> used it on _very_ large hills!

You beat me to it! I was thinking the same thing and even used the same
first word! :-)

I suppose some people like to spin much slower than us or just like the
feeling of a great big over-drive gear. It's a waste though, I think.

~PB

Anton Gibbs
July 31st 03, 09:53 PM
I guess my cadence might be a bit on the low side compared to most serious
cyclists. I don't exceed 30mph very often but I do like to stay in a high
gear and keep the power on. I am on the heavy side for a cyclist so I like
to try to keep the momentum up. I am only cycling at a little over 15mph
average.

I am sure you are right and Dawes could invoke the "Well, you knew what you
were buying" clause but if that were to happen I would be disappointed to
say the least. I thought by buying British and paying top dollar I would get
looked after. 48 and still getting it wrong... ;-)

"Pete Biggs" > wrote in message
...
> Anton Gibbs wrote:
> > Hi there. Just bought a Dawes Audax tourer. All very nice except the
> > top gear seems a bit low. I checked and it is 52:12; the spec (on the
> > web site) says 52:11 which makes quite a difference.
>
> Blimey, 52 x 12 is a very high gear already! 52 x 11 would be ridiculous
> on most road race bikes, let alone audaxes, in my opinion. Wide-range
> cassettes staring with 11T are designed for bikes with compact chainsets
> with small rings (typically with 42T big ring). It's a waste to use these
> with road chainsets. Dawes are stupid for specifying one. In fact, the
> 52 ring is on the large side as well but that's what is supplied as
> standard with low/mid-range triple cranksets.
>
> The top gear is good enough for more than 35mph if you spin properly, and
> for the steepest downhills, the highest speeds are achieved by
> freewheeling. If you need higher cruising gears the the outer ring can be
> used more (or middle ring could be replaced for a larger one).
>
> I have 52 x 13 on my road bike (and it wasn't long ago when freewheels
> only ever went up to 13). A higher gear might be nice occasionally but so
> much more value is had from the lower gears and a closer ratio cassette
> with smaller jumps between the gears.
>
> I strongly suggest keeping the existing gears and using a higher cadence -
> more efficient and better for the knees.
>
> But if you disagree and still want the other cassette, the dealer may well
> be willing to swap it for no no charge once the catalogue spec is pointed
> out to them - worth a try (and it is an easy job, physically). I doubt
> there's any legal obligation because Dawes probably state that their specs
> are "subject to change" and presumably you had a chance to examine goods
> or ask questions before buying.
>
> ~PB
>
>

Anton Gibbs
July 31st 03, 10:07 PM
Well, I'm pretty sure 52:11 is what I had before. It's a bit difficult to
check now as I de-commissioned it on Saturday at our local tip (full
military honours etc.).

I think New Bike Syndrome may be related to New Saddle Syndrome - a tendency
to favour higher gears and put more weight on the pedals so as to relieve
the pressure from elsewhere... Yarrrooo... :-)

"Pete Biggs" > wrote in message
...
> Anton Gibbs wrote:
>
> > The gearing thing is niggling me because I can notice the difference
> > compared to my old (25 year old!) bike and also against my mates when
> > we cycle together. The difference between 52:11 and 52:12 is pretty
> > noticeable.
>
> Have you got 52:11 on the old bike?
>
> It could partly be New Bike Syndrome. For some odd reason, you tend to
> use and need higher gears than normal whilst getting used to a new bike, I
> find.
>
> ~PB
>
>

W K
July 31st 03, 11:02 PM
"Pete Biggs" > wrote in message
...

> on most road race bikes, let alone audaxes, in my opinion. Wide-range
> cassettes staring with 11T are designed for bikes with compact chainsets
> with small rings (typically with 42T big ring).

Yes.
And Typically a mountain bike too.
42x11 means that you spin out at 25mph and 90 rpm.

If you are touring or doing a long day ride, that means you are going down a
hill and deserve a rest.

MarkK
July 31st 03, 11:03 PM
"Anton Gibbs" > wrote in message
...
> Hmm, old model eh ? Well, I certainly paid the new model price :(

Have you checked that it has 631 tubing? That's got to be the easiest way of
confirming it's a 2003 bike.

Mark

Michael MacClancy
August 1st 03, 06:53 AM
In message >, Steve McGinty
> writes
>On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:12:41 +0100, "Anton Gibbs"
> wrote:
>
>>Hi there. Just bought a Dawes Audax tourer. All very nice except the top
>>gear seems a bit low. I checked and it is 52:12; the spec (on the web site)
>>says 52:11 which makes quite a difference. I am hoping the dealer will
>>change it for me. Anyone know where I stand ? TIA.
>>
>52x11 is the gear the top road sprinters use when flat out (40mph+)
>for the line. Unless you're planning to use your Dawes to challenge
>McEwen and co in next year's Tour de France I would stop worrying
>about whether it's an 11 or 12 - you'll never need either.
>
>Regards!
>Stephen


Quite right. The OP should learn to ride at a higher cadence and save
his knees.
--
Michael MacClancy

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