Who does the best bike fit in Sydney?

[RossB]

I bought a new road bike last week and while the guys at the store spent
a reasonable amount of time fitting it, they way they did it didn't look
particularly scientific. I also wasn't convinced that the guy doing it
was 100% certain of what he was doing. It was basically along the lines
of "raise that a bit, lower it a bit, yeah that looks right". No
measurements were taken. The cleats were fastened to the shoes without
seeing if they required any adjustment, and after less than a week I
have developed major knee pains. I also found out later that this store
sold a bike to a friend of mine which was way too big for her.

I'm now thinking of going to a different shop just to have the bike
fitted out properly, although I know this could cost a lot extra. I know
some stores use the Bike Fit system. Does anyone know if any stores in
Sydney do this? Who does the best bike fitting in Sydney? Am I correct
in thinking that any store will do this for the appropriate charge?



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Andrew Swan]

RossB wrote:
> I bought a new road bike last week and while the guys at the store spent
> a reasonable amount of time fitting it, they way they did it didn't look
> particularly scientific. I also wasn't convinced that the guy doing it
> was 100% certain of what he was doing. It was basically along the lines
> of "raise that a bit, lower it a bit, yeah that looks right". No
> measurements were taken. The cleats were fastened to the shoes without
> seeing if they required any adjustment, and after less than a week I
> have developed major knee pains. I also found out later that this store
> sold a bike to a friend of mine which was way too big for her.
>

Come on now, don't be shy! Which BS was it (maybe others can benefit
from your bad experience)?

&roo

[Andrew Swan]

RossB wrote:
> I bought a new road bike last week and while the guys at the store spent
> a reasonable amount of time fitting it, they way they did it didn't look
> particularly scientific. I also wasn't convinced that the guy doing it
> was 100% certain of what he was doing. It was basically along the lines
> of "raise that a bit, lower it a bit, yeah that looks right". No
> measurements were taken. The cleats were fastened to the shoes without
> seeing if they required any adjustment, and after less than a week I
> have developed major knee pains. I also found out later that this store
> sold a bike to a friend of mine which was way too big for her.
>

Come on now, don't be shy! Which BS was it (maybe others can benefit
from your bad experience)?

&roo

[Andrew Swan]

RossB wrote:
> I bought a new road bike last week and while the guys at the store spent
> a reasonable amount of time fitting it, they way they did it didn't look
> particularly scientific. I also wasn't convinced that the guy doing it
> was 100% certain of what he was doing. It was basically along the lines
> of "raise that a bit, lower it a bit, yeah that looks right". No
> measurements were taken. The cleats were fastened to the shoes without
> seeing if they required any adjustment, and after less than a week I
> have developed major knee pains. I also found out later that this store
> sold a bike to a friend of mine which was way too big for her.
>
> I'm now thinking of going to a different shop just to have the bike
> fitted out properly, although I know this could cost a lot extra. I know
> some stores use the Bike Fit system. Does anyone know if any stores in
> Sydney do this? Who does the best bike fitting in Sydney? Am I correct
> in thinking that any store will do this for the appropriate charge?
>
>
>
> --
>
>>--------------------------<
>
> Posted via cyclingforums.com
> http://www.cyclingforums.com

Two of my friends have used and would recommend Steve Hogg (as does my
club) - here's something I found about him via Google (at
http://www.bicyclingaustralia.com.au/ba/show/public.asp):

"Steve Hogg is the owner or [sic] Pedal Pushers bike shop in Randwick,
Sydney. He is also a co-proprietor of the Cyclefit professional cycle
fitting practice with John Kennedy of Melbourne Elite Sport. Steve has
fitted and measured over 6,000 road and MTB cyclists and triathletes,
including Eddie Salas, 10 times Australian Champion, Marion Clignet, a
five time World Champion and Olympic medallist and Jan Rehula, Sydney
Olympic medallist in triathlon."

IIRC from what my friends said, his basic fitting takes a few hours and
costs about $350, and is very thorough.

HTH,

&roo

[Andrew Swan]

RossB wrote:
> I bought a new road bike last week and while the guys at the store spent
> a reasonable amount of time fitting it, they way they did it didn't look
> particularly scientific. I also wasn't convinced that the guy doing it
> was 100% certain of what he was doing. It was basically along the lines
> of "raise that a bit, lower it a bit, yeah that looks right". No
> measurements were taken. The cleats were fastened to the shoes without
> seeing if they required any adjustment, and after less than a week I
> have developed major knee pains. I also found out later that this store
> sold a bike to a friend of mine which was way too big for her.
>
> I'm now thinking of going to a different shop just to have the bike
> fitted out properly, although I know this could cost a lot extra. I know
> some stores use the Bike Fit system. Does anyone know if any stores in
> Sydney do this? Who does the best bike fitting in Sydney? Am I correct
> in thinking that any store will do this for the appropriate charge?
>
>
>
> --
>
>>--------------------------<
>
> Posted via cyclingforums.com
> http://www.cyclingforums.com

Two of my friends have used and would recommend Steve Hogg (as does my
club) - here's something I found about him via Google (at
http://www.bicyclingaustralia.com.au/ba/show/public.asp):

"Steve Hogg is the owner or [sic] Pedal Pushers bike shop in Randwick,
Sydney. He is also a co-proprietor of the Cyclefit professional cycle
fitting practice with John Kennedy of Melbourne Elite Sport. Steve has
fitted and measured over 6,000 road and MTB cyclists and triathletes,
including Eddie Salas, 10 times Australian Champion, Marion Clignet, a
five time World Champion and Olympic medallist and Jan Rehula, Sydney
Olympic medallist in triathlon."

IIRC from what my friends said, his basic fitting takes a few hours and
costs about $350, and is very thorough.

HTH,

&roo

[RossB]

Thanks, Andrew. That's very helpful.



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[RossB]

Thanks, Andrew. That's very helpful.



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Gary K]

There are a couple of schools of thought on this (and controversial).
Positioning the rider by sight can be a good starting point without
spending the big bucks of a prof. bike fit.

If you have knee problems, check your saddle height, use the formula
thats being published around the place for many years. ie. Multiply your
inleg length by 0.883, that becomes the BB to top of the saddle distance
- its a very good start. Also look at your riding style. Do you grind
large gears too much?

Fore/aft position of the saddle can be tested while climbing with your
hands on the tops. If you find you must pull with your arms, you have
your seat too far back and so on.

The best position is the one you continually tweak overtime.

Hope this helps.


Andrew Swan > wrote:

> "Steve Hogg is the owner or [sic] Pedal Pushers bike shop in Randwick,
> Sydney. He is also a co-proprietor of the Cyclefit professional cycle
> fitting practice with John Kennedy of Melbourne Elite Sport. Steve has
> fitted and measured over 6,000 road and MTB cyclists and triathletes,
> including Eddie Salas, 10 times Australian Champion, Marion Clignet, a
> five time World Champion and Olympic medallist and Jan Rehula, Sydney
> Olympic medallist in triathlon."
>
> IIRC from what my friends said, his basic fitting takes a few hours and
> costs about $350, and is very thorough.

[Gary K]

There are a couple of schools of thought on this (and controversial).
Positioning the rider by sight can be a good starting point without
spending the big bucks of a prof. bike fit.

If you have knee problems, check your saddle height, use the formula
thats being published around the place for many years. ie. Multiply your
inleg length by 0.883, that becomes the BB to top of the saddle distance
- its a very good start. Also look at your riding style. Do you grind
large gears too much?

Fore/aft position of the saddle can be tested while climbing with your
hands on the tops. If you find you must pull with your arms, you have
your seat too far back and so on.

The best position is the one you continually tweak overtime.

Hope this helps.


Andrew Swan > wrote:

> "Steve Hogg is the owner or [sic] Pedal Pushers bike shop in Randwick,
> Sydney. He is also a co-proprietor of the Cyclefit professional cycle
> fitting practice with John Kennedy of Melbourne Elite Sport. Steve has
> fitted and measured over 6,000 road and MTB cyclists and triathletes,
> including Eddie Salas, 10 times Australian Champion, Marion Clignet, a
> five time World Champion and Olympic medallist and Jan Rehula, Sydney
> Olympic medallist in triathlon."
>
> IIRC from what my friends said, his basic fitting takes a few hours and
> costs about $350, and is very thorough.

[Andrew Morris]

Ross,

end of the day, if you're hurting on the bike, there is something not quite
right... I hurt like hell on my old bike, went to a frame size 2 cm
smaller, and don't hurt anymore....

I'd go back to the bike shop, and talk to them... they should have no
hesitation in doing a refit... should be a part of the purchase...
"RossB" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
> > Come on now, don't be shy! Which BS was it (maybe others can benefit
> > from your bad experience)?
>
> Andrew, I'm reluctant to disclose that. It's one of the major shops,
> and they spent a lot of time with me and did a good deal on the bike,
> and I don't know for certain that they did not set up the bike
> properly. In fact, apart from the cleats and the knee pain, the bike
> set up feels reasonably comfortable. So I'm reluctant to say they did a
> bad job, I would just like to check it with someone who may have a more
> scientific way of doing it - apart from the cleats, which I think do
> need some more work.
>
>
>
> --
> >--------------------------<
> Posted via cyclingforums.com
> http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Andrew Morris]

Ross,

end of the day, if you're hurting on the bike, there is something not quite
right... I hurt like hell on my old bike, went to a frame size 2 cm
smaller, and don't hurt anymore....

I'd go back to the bike shop, and talk to them... they should have no
hesitation in doing a refit... should be a part of the purchase...
"RossB" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
> > Come on now, don't be shy! Which BS was it (maybe others can benefit
> > from your bad experience)?
>
> Andrew, I'm reluctant to disclose that. It's one of the major shops,
> and they spent a lot of time with me and did a good deal on the bike,
> and I don't know for certain that they did not set up the bike
> properly. In fact, apart from the cleats and the knee pain, the bike
> set up feels reasonably comfortable. So I'm reluctant to say they did a
> bad job, I would just like to check it with someone who may have a more
> scientific way of doing it - apart from the cleats, which I think do
> need some more work.
>
>
>
> --
> >--------------------------<
> Posted via cyclingforums.com
> http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Jose Rizal]

Luther Blissett:

> Gary K wrote:
>
> *snip*
> > If you have knee problems, check your saddle height, use the formula
> > thats being published around the place for many years. ie. Multiply your
> > inleg length by 0.883, that becomes the BB to top of the saddle distance
> > - its a very good start.
> Hey Gary .. how do you measure inleg length? ( I mean where do you start
> and finish - please no "with a tape measure!" posts!)
>

Get a thin hardcover book, stand against a wall, bare feet about a foot
apart, and stick the book with the spine side up between your legs as
far as it would go, snugly. Make sure the book's end is flat against
the wall. Mark the level where the book spine is at, and the distance
from that to the ground is your inseam length. Use a ruler if you don't
like tape measures...

[Jose Rizal]

Luther Blissett:

> Gary K wrote:
>
> *snip*
> > If you have knee problems, check your saddle height, use the formula
> > thats being published around the place for many years. ie. Multiply your
> > inleg length by 0.883, that becomes the BB to top of the saddle distance
> > - its a very good start.
> Hey Gary .. how do you measure inleg length? ( I mean where do you start
> and finish - please no "with a tape measure!" posts!)
>

Get a thin hardcover book, stand against a wall, bare feet about a foot
apart, and stick the book with the spine side up between your legs as
far as it would go, snugly. Make sure the book's end is flat against
the wall. Mark the level where the book spine is at, and the distance
from that to the ground is your inseam length. Use a ruler if you don't
like tape measures...

[Tim Jones]

"Gary K" > wrote in message
. au...
> If you have knee problems, check your saddle height, use the formula
> thats being published around the place for many years. ie. Multiply your
> inleg length by 0.883, that becomes the BB to top of the saddle distance
> - its a very good start.

<...>

Do you measure from the centre of the bottom bracket?

Tim

[Tim Jones]

"Gary K" > wrote in message
. au...
> If you have knee problems, check your saddle height, use the formula
> thats being published around the place for many years. ie. Multiply your
> inleg length by 0.883, that becomes the BB to top of the saddle distance
> - its a very good start.

<...>

Do you measure from the centre of the bottom bracket?

Tim

[Gary K]

Tim Jones > wrote:

> "Gary K" > wrote in message
> . au...
> > If you have knee problems, check your saddle height, use the formula
> > thats being published around the place for many years. ie. Multiply your
> > inleg length by 0.883, that becomes the BB to top of the saddle distance
> > - its a very good start.
>
> <...>
>
> Do you measure from the centre of the bottom bracket?
>
> Tim

Certainly do..

I found when i used Carnac shoes, because they use a 5mm thick adaptor
plate for the cleats, I needed to raise the saddle another 5mm. When
using extra long cranks (175mm on mtbs) I found lowering the saddle 5mm
helped. But mostly, the formula is pretty damn accurate.

[Gary K]

Tim Jones > wrote:

> "Gary K" > wrote in message
> . au...
> > If you have knee problems, check your saddle height, use the formula
> > thats being published around the place for many years. ie. Multiply your
> > inleg length by 0.883, that becomes the BB to top of the saddle distance
> > - its a very good start.
>
> <...>
>
> Do you measure from the centre of the bottom bracket?
>
> Tim

Certainly do..

I found when i used Carnac shoes, because they use a 5mm thick adaptor
plate for the cleats, I needed to raise the saddle another 5mm. When
using extra long cranks (175mm on mtbs) I found lowering the saddle 5mm
helped. But mostly, the formula is pretty damn accurate.

[Gary K]

Jose Rizal > wrote:

> Luther Blissett:
>
> > Gary K wrote:
> >
> > *snip*
> > > If you have knee problems, check your saddle height, use the formula
> > > thats being published around the place for many years. ie. Multiply your
> > > inleg length by 0.883, that becomes the BB to top of the saddle distance
> > > - its a very good start.
> > Hey Gary .. how do you measure inleg length? ( I mean where do you start
> > and finish - please no "with a tape measure!" posts!)
> >
>
> Get a thin hardcover book, stand against a wall, bare feet about a foot
> apart, and stick the book with the spine side up between your legs as
> far as it would go, snugly. Make sure the book's end is flat against
> the wall. Mark the level where the book spine is at, and the distance
> from that to the ground is your inseam length. Use a ruler if you don't
> like tape measures...

Beat me to it.

Best if you are stripped to your jocks at least to get as accurate
measure as possible.

[Gary K]

Jose Rizal > wrote:

> Luther Blissett:
>
> > Gary K wrote:
> >
> > *snip*
> > > If you have knee problems, check your saddle height, use the formula
> > > thats being published around the place for many years. ie. Multiply your
> > > inleg length by 0.883, that becomes the BB to top of the saddle distance
> > > - its a very good start.
> > Hey Gary .. how do you measure inleg length? ( I mean where do you start
> > and finish - please no "with a tape measure!" posts!)
> >
>
> Get a thin hardcover book, stand against a wall, bare feet about a foot
> apart, and stick the book with the spine side up between your legs as
> far as it would go, snugly. Make sure the book's end is flat against
> the wall. Mark the level where the book spine is at, and the distance
> from that to the ground is your inseam length. Use a ruler if you don't
> like tape measures...

Beat me to it.

Best if you are stripped to your jocks at least to get as accurate
measure as possible.

[Andrew Price]

"Andrew Swan" > wrote in message
...
> Two of my friends have used and would recommend Steve Hogg (as does my
> club) -

Highly recommend Steve - if its any closer Mark at Turramurra Cyles also is
said to do a pretty good job and maybe a bit cheaper.

BUT this will start you on a larger quest ...

If I was starting out with a new bike again the thing I would do is get
someone to have a look at the flexibility and functionality of my pretty
ordinary body and start improving on lots of years of getting tighter and
less flexible (basically sedentary modern urban living will do this for you)

I suspect and hope that one day we might educate kids at school on how to
stretch, stay flexible, carry weight properly and pay some respect to the
human machine which evolved doing different things than we now expect it to
do.

By all means get set up properly on the bike - other than the discomfort of
exertion, nothing should ever hurt or give muscular or skeletal problems on
a bike properly set up for you - but as you ride more and especially if you
stretch (yoga, pilates, cycling stretches, whatever) your best position will
change significantly.

Thats why I suggest you get a simple fit done now and start doing a lot of
work on flexibility - that will show you measurable improvement faster than
anything else you can do. Resist the temptation of spending $ on the bike
(unless something becomes unreliable) and invest time in working on the
thing that will show you the biggest gain - improving you.

Buy a swiss ball correctly sized for you (cheap) and get someone to show you
how you can strengthen your core muscles and get your lower & upper back
flexible - the latter will do a whole lot of good for your lung capacity and
endurance on the bike.

That's not just an investment in better cycling, its a big investment in a
longer happier more active life - but as always YMMV.


best, Andrew

"But riding is my special gift, my chiefest, sole delight;
Just ask a wild duck can it swim, a wildcat can it fight...
I'll ride this here two-wheeled concern, right straight away, at sight."
A B 'Banjo' Patterson - "Mulga Bill" 25 July 1896.

[Andrew Price]

"Andrew Swan" > wrote in message
...
> Two of my friends have used and would recommend Steve Hogg (as does my
> club) -

Highly recommend Steve - if its any closer Mark at Turramurra Cyles also is
said to do a pretty good job and maybe a bit cheaper.

BUT this will start you on a larger quest ...

If I was starting out with a new bike again the thing I would do is get
someone to have a look at the flexibility and functionality of my pretty
ordinary body and start improving on lots of years of getting tighter and
less flexible (basically sedentary modern urban living will do this for you)

I suspect and hope that one day we might educate kids at school on how to
stretch, stay flexible, carry weight properly and pay some respect to the
human machine which evolved doing different things than we now expect it to
do.

By all means get set up properly on the bike - other than the discomfort of
exertion, nothing should ever hurt or give muscular or skeletal problems on
a bike properly set up for you - but as you ride more and especially if you
stretch (yoga, pilates, cycling stretches, whatever) your best position will
change significantly.

Thats why I suggest you get a simple fit done now and start doing a lot of
work on flexibility - that will show you measurable improvement faster than
anything else you can do. Resist the temptation of spending $ on the bike
(unless something becomes unreliable) and invest time in working on the
thing that will show you the biggest gain - improving you.

Buy a swiss ball correctly sized for you (cheap) and get someone to show you
how you can strengthen your core muscles and get your lower & upper back
flexible - the latter will do a whole lot of good for your lung capacity and
endurance on the bike.

That's not just an investment in better cycling, its a big investment in a
longer happier more active life - but as always YMMV.


best, Andrew

"But riding is my special gift, my chiefest, sole delight;
Just ask a wild duck can it swim, a wildcat can it fight...
I'll ride this here two-wheeled concern, right straight away, at sight."
A B 'Banjo' Patterson - "Mulga Bill" 25 July 1896.

[Arpit]

Hi, some of you gave some sort of formula for working ouit fittings.
Im only 16, can I still use the formula or do I have to modify stuff?

On 29 Aug 2003 14:35:05 +0950, RossB >
wrote:

>I bought a new road bike last week and while the guys at the store spent
>a reasonable amount of time fitting it, they way they did it didn't look
>particularly scientific. I also wasn't convinced that the guy doing it
>was 100% certain of what he was doing. It was basically along the lines
>of "raise that a bit, lower it a bit, yeah that looks right". No
>measurements were taken. The cleats were fastened to the shoes without
>seeing if they required any adjustment, and after less than a week I
>have developed major knee pains. I also found out later that this store
>sold a bike to a friend of mine which was way too big for her.
>
>I'm now thinking of going to a different shop just to have the bike
>fitted out properly, although I know this could cost a lot extra. I know
>some stores use the Bike Fit system. Does anyone know if any stores in
>Sydney do this? Who does the best bike fitting in Sydney? Am I correct
>in thinking that any store will do this for the appropriate charge?

[Arpit]

Hi, some of you gave some sort of formula for working ouit fittings.
Im only 16, can I still use the formula or do I have to modify stuff?

On 29 Aug 2003 14:35:05 +0950, RossB >
wrote:

>I bought a new road bike last week and while the guys at the store spent
>a reasonable amount of time fitting it, they way they did it didn't look
>particularly scientific. I also wasn't convinced that the guy doing it
>was 100% certain of what he was doing. It was basically along the lines
>of "raise that a bit, lower it a bit, yeah that looks right". No
>measurements were taken. The cleats were fastened to the shoes without
>seeing if they required any adjustment, and after less than a week I
>have developed major knee pains. I also found out later that this store
>sold a bike to a friend of mine which was way too big for her.
>
>I'm now thinking of going to a different shop just to have the bike
>fitted out properly, although I know this could cost a lot extra. I know
>some stores use the Bike Fit system. Does anyone know if any stores in
>Sydney do this? Who does the best bike fitting in Sydney? Am I correct
>in thinking that any store will do this for the appropriate charge?

[eug k]

Andrew Price > wrote:

[....]

> By all means get set up properly on the bike - other than the discomfort of
> exertion, nothing should ever hurt or give muscular or skeletal problems on
> a bike properly set up for you - but as you ride more and especially if you
> stretch (yoga, pilates, cycling stretches, whatever) your best position will
> change significantly.

and now, to an amateurish question... if i get a sore butt from my saddle,
does that mean it's not properly fitted, or i just need a softer one?

[.....]

--
is a valid email address. Don't remove anything!

[eug k]

Andrew Price > wrote:

[....]

> By all means get set up properly on the bike - other than the discomfort of
> exertion, nothing should ever hurt or give muscular or skeletal problems on
> a bike properly set up for you - but as you ride more and especially if you
> stretch (yoga, pilates, cycling stretches, whatever) your best position will
> change significantly.

and now, to an amateurish question... if i get a sore butt from my saddle,
does that mean it's not properly fitted, or i just need a softer one?

[.....]

--
is a valid email address. Don't remove anything!

[Peter Vesel]

Don't waste your time trying a bit here and a bit there.
Steve Hogg charges quite a bit but then he does spend a few hours checking
you out for structural misalignments, flexibility and such.

If you don't like his adjustments I believe he still has a money back
guarantee.
unfortunately you should have seen him before you bought your bike.

Peter

ps I believe he is giving one of his talks this weekend (Saturday only?) and
it is well worth listening to.... as is Andrew Richards.


From Bicycling Australia website

11:00am Saturday

Andrew Richards & Steve Hogg-Positioning to Solve Problems
Structural Biomechanics and Cycling Performance



In Part 1 of this dual presentation, Andrew Richards will explain structural
biomechanics and reveal how it relates to cycling performance. Andrew
Richards (B.Med.Sc M.Chiro) is the principal chiropractor of ISIS
Chiropractic and massage. Andrew is a member of the Chiropractors
Association of Australia, Randwick Botany Cycling Club and Triathlon
Australia. He regularly attends conferences in Australia and overseas to
stay abreast of the latest developments in the medical field. Andrew has
been a contributor to the Bicycling Australia publication and conducts
educational workshops for chiropractors, personal trainers and the general
public.



In Part 2 of this dual presentation, Steve Hogg will practically apply the
principles of structural biomechanics to cycling. In particular, Steve Hogg
will look at how posture and structural fitness affect an ideal bike
position. He will look at how pelvic stability is the key to an ideal bike
position. Steve will also look at how achieving pelvic stability through
optimal bike position can typically improve a rider's power output by 15 to
25%. Steve Hogg is the owner or Pedal Pushers bike shop in Randwick, Sydney.
He is also a co-proprietor of the Cyclefit professional cycle fitting
practice with John Kennedy of Melbourne Elite Sport. Steve has fitted and
measured over 6,000 road and MTB cyclists and triathletes, including Eddie
Salas, 10 times Australian Champion, Marion Clignet, a five time World
Champion and Olympic medallist and Jan Rehula, Sydney Olympic medallist in
triathlon.





"RossB" > wrote in message
...
> I bought a new road bike last week and while the guys at the store spent
> a reasonable amount of time fitting it, they way they did it didn't look
> particularly scientific. I also wasn't convinced that the guy doing it
> was 100% certain of what he was doing. It was basically along the lines
> of "raise that a bit, lower it a bit, yeah that looks right". No
> measurements were taken. The cleats were fastened to the shoes without
> seeing if they required any adjustment, and after less than a week I
> have developed major knee pains. I also found out later that this store
> sold a bike to a friend of mine which was way too big for her.
>
> I'm now thinking of going to a different shop just to have the bike
> fitted out properly, although I know this could cost a lot extra. I know
> some stores use the Bike Fit system. Does anyone know if any stores in
> Sydney do this? Who does the best bike fitting in Sydney? Am I correct
> in thinking that any store will do this for the appropriate charge?
>
>
>
> --
> >--------------------------<
> Posted via cyclingforums.com
> http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Peter Vesel]

Don't waste your time trying a bit here and a bit there.
Steve Hogg charges quite a bit but then he does spend a few hours checking
you out for structural misalignments, flexibility and such.

If you don't like his adjustments I believe he still has a money back
guarantee.
unfortunately you should have seen him before you bought your bike.

Peter

ps I believe he is giving one of his talks this weekend (Saturday only?) and
it is well worth listening to.... as is Andrew Richards.


From Bicycling Australia website

11:00am Saturday

Andrew Richards & Steve Hogg-Positioning to Solve Problems
Structural Biomechanics and Cycling Performance



In Part 1 of this dual presentation, Andrew Richards will explain structural
biomechanics and reveal how it relates to cycling performance. Andrew
Richards (B.Med.Sc M.Chiro) is the principal chiropractor of ISIS
Chiropractic and massage. Andrew is a member of the Chiropractors
Association of Australia, Randwick Botany Cycling Club and Triathlon
Australia. He regularly attends conferences in Australia and overseas to
stay abreast of the latest developments in the medical field. Andrew has
been a contributor to the Bicycling Australia publication and conducts
educational workshops for chiropractors, personal trainers and the general
public.



In Part 2 of this dual presentation, Steve Hogg will practically apply the
principles of structural biomechanics to cycling. In particular, Steve Hogg
will look at how posture and structural fitness affect an ideal bike
position. He will look at how pelvic stability is the key to an ideal bike
position. Steve will also look at how achieving pelvic stability through
optimal bike position can typically improve a rider's power output by 15 to
25%. Steve Hogg is the owner or Pedal Pushers bike shop in Randwick, Sydney.
He is also a co-proprietor of the Cyclefit professional cycle fitting
practice with John Kennedy of Melbourne Elite Sport. Steve has fitted and
measured over 6,000 road and MTB cyclists and triathletes, including Eddie
Salas, 10 times Australian Champion, Marion Clignet, a five time World
Champion and Olympic medallist and Jan Rehula, Sydney Olympic medallist in
triathlon.





"RossB" > wrote in message
...
> I bought a new road bike last week and while the guys at the store spent
> a reasonable amount of time fitting it, they way they did it didn't look
> particularly scientific. I also wasn't convinced that the guy doing it
> was 100% certain of what he was doing. It was basically along the lines
> of "raise that a bit, lower it a bit, yeah that looks right". No
> measurements were taken. The cleats were fastened to the shoes without
> seeing if they required any adjustment, and after less than a week I
> have developed major knee pains. I also found out later that this store
> sold a bike to a friend of mine which was way too big for her.
>
> I'm now thinking of going to a different shop just to have the bike
> fitted out properly, although I know this could cost a lot extra. I know
> some stores use the Bike Fit system. Does anyone know if any stores in
> Sydney do this? Who does the best bike fitting in Sydney? Am I correct
> in thinking that any store will do this for the appropriate charge?
>
>
>
> --
> >--------------------------<
> Posted via cyclingforums.com
> http://www.cyclingforums.com

[amirm]

Gary K wrote:
> There are a couple of schools of thought on this (and controversial).
> Positioning the rider by sight can be a good starting point without
> spending the big bucks of a prof. bike fit.
> If you have knee problems, check your saddle height, use the formula
> thats being published around the place for many years. ie. Multiply your
> inleg length by 0.883, that becomes the BB to top of the saddle distance
> - its a very good start. Also look at your riding style. Do you grind
> large gears too much?
> Fore/aft position of the saddle can be tested while climbing with your
> hands on the tops. If you find you must pull with your arms, you have
> your seat too far back and so on.
> The best position is the one you continually tweak overtime.
> Hope this helps.
> Andrew Swan > wrote:
> > "Steve Hogg is the owner or [sic] Pedal Pushers bike shop in Randwick,
> > Sydney. He is also a co-proprietor of the Cyclefit professional cycle
> > fitting practice with John Kennedy of Melbourne Elite Sport. Steve has
> > fitted and measured over 6,000 road and MTB cyclists and triathletes,
> > including Eddie Salas, 10 times Australian Champion, Marion Clignet, a
> > five time World Champion and Olympic medallist and Jan Rehula, Sydney
> > Olympic medallist in triathlon."
> >
> > IIRC from what my friends said, his basic fitting takes a few hours
> > and costs about $350, and is very thorough.




Gary:

I've read on several places (and am using it myself) that a simple
method to adjust the fore/aft position of the saddle is to keep the feet
in a position where crank arms are horizontal. Then, the front of the
knee (the leg with the foot forward) is to align with the corresponding
pedal axle. I usually do this adjustment using my right leg.

Cheers.



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[amirm]

Gary K wrote:
> There are a couple of schools of thought on this (and controversial).
> Positioning the rider by sight can be a good starting point without
> spending the big bucks of a prof. bike fit.
> If you have knee problems, check your saddle height, use the formula
> thats being published around the place for many years. ie. Multiply your
> inleg length by 0.883, that becomes the BB to top of the saddle distance
> - its a very good start. Also look at your riding style. Do you grind
> large gears too much?
> Fore/aft position of the saddle can be tested while climbing with your
> hands on the tops. If you find you must pull with your arms, you have
> your seat too far back and so on.
> The best position is the one you continually tweak overtime.
> Hope this helps.
> Andrew Swan > wrote:
> > "Steve Hogg is the owner or [sic] Pedal Pushers bike shop in Randwick,
> > Sydney. He is also a co-proprietor of the Cyclefit professional cycle
> > fitting practice with John Kennedy of Melbourne Elite Sport. Steve has
> > fitted and measured over 6,000 road and MTB cyclists and triathletes,
> > including Eddie Salas, 10 times Australian Champion, Marion Clignet, a
> > five time World Champion and Olympic medallist and Jan Rehula, Sydney
> > Olympic medallist in triathlon."
> >
> > IIRC from what my friends said, his basic fitting takes a few hours
> > and costs about $350, and is very thorough.




Gary:

I've read on several places (and am using it myself) that a simple
method to adjust the fore/aft position of the saddle is to keep the feet
in a position where crank arms are horizontal. Then, the front of the
knee (the leg with the foot forward) is to align with the corresponding
pedal axle. I usually do this adjustment using my right leg.

Cheers.



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[hippy]

"amirm" > wrote in message
...
> I've read on several places (and am using it myself) that a simple
> method to adjust the fore/aft position of the saddle is to keep the
feet
> in a position where crank arms are horizontal. Then, the front of the
> knee (the leg with the foot forward) is to align with the
corresponding
> pedal axle. I usually do this adjustment using my right leg.

This link argues that the "knee over pedal spindle" method is incorrect:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/kops.html

hippy

[hippy]

"amirm" > wrote in message
...
> I've read on several places (and am using it myself) that a simple
> method to adjust the fore/aft position of the saddle is to keep the
feet
> in a position where crank arms are horizontal. Then, the front of the
> knee (the leg with the foot forward) is to align with the
corresponding
> pedal axle. I usually do this adjustment using my right leg.

This link argues that the "knee over pedal spindle" method is incorrect:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/kops.html

hippy

[Gary K]

hippy > wrote:

> "amirm" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I've read on several places (and am using it myself) that a simple
> > method to adjust the fore/aft position of the saddle is to keep the
> feet
> > in a position where crank arms are horizontal. Then, the front of the
> > knee (the leg with the foot forward) is to align with the
> corresponding
> > pedal axle. I usually do this adjustment using my right leg.
>
> This link argues that the "knee over pedal spindle" method is incorrect:
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/kops.html
>
> hippy

Yep, KOPS is barely a rough guide. To be taken with a grain of salt. As
I outlined, adusting saddle position to iron out climbing problems is a
far better techique.

[Gary K]

hippy > wrote:

> "amirm" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I've read on several places (and am using it myself) that a simple
> > method to adjust the fore/aft position of the saddle is to keep the
> feet
> > in a position where crank arms are horizontal. Then, the front of the
> > knee (the leg with the foot forward) is to align with the
> corresponding
> > pedal axle. I usually do this adjustment using my right leg.
>
> This link argues that the "knee over pedal spindle" method is incorrect:
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/kops.html
>
> hippy

Yep, KOPS is barely a rough guide. To be taken with a grain of salt. As
I outlined, adusting saddle position to iron out climbing problems is a
far better techique.

[Gary K]

Sorry, I missed this one.
If you are referring to the saddle height formula, its universal,
everyone can use it (to great effect).

hope this helps

Arpit > wrote:

> Hi, some of you gave some sort of formula for working ouit fittings.
> Im only 16, can I still use the formula or do I have to modify stuff?
>
> On 29 Aug 2003 14:35:05 +0950, RossB >
> wrote:
>
> >I bought a new road bike last week and while the guys at the store spent
> >a reasonable amount of time fitting it, they way they did it didn't look
> >particularly scientific. I also wasn't convinced that the guy doing it
> >was 100% certain of what he was doing. It was basically along the lines
> >of "raise that a bit, lower it a bit, yeah that looks right". No
> >measurements were taken. The cleats were fastened to the shoes without
> >seeing if they required any adjustment, and after less than a week I
> >have developed major knee pains. I also found out later that this store
> >sold a bike to a friend of mine which was way too big for her.
> >
> >I'm now thinking of going to a different shop just to have the bike
> >fitted out properly, although I know this could cost a lot extra. I know
> >some stores use the Bike Fit system. Does anyone know if any stores in
> >Sydney do this? Who does the best bike fitting in Sydney? Am I correct
> >in thinking that any store will do this for the appropriate charge?

[Gary K]

Sorry, I missed this one.
If you are referring to the saddle height formula, its universal,
everyone can use it (to great effect).

hope this helps

Arpit > wrote:

> Hi, some of you gave some sort of formula for working ouit fittings.
> Im only 16, can I still use the formula or do I have to modify stuff?
>
> On 29 Aug 2003 14:35:05 +0950, RossB >
> wrote:
>
> >I bought a new road bike last week and while the guys at the store spent
> >a reasonable amount of time fitting it, they way they did it didn't look
> >particularly scientific. I also wasn't convinced that the guy doing it
> >was 100% certain of what he was doing. It was basically along the lines
> >of "raise that a bit, lower it a bit, yeah that looks right". No
> >measurements were taken. The cleats were fastened to the shoes without
> >seeing if they required any adjustment, and after less than a week I
> >have developed major knee pains. I also found out later that this store
> >sold a bike to a friend of mine which was way too big for her.
> >
> >I'm now thinking of going to a different shop just to have the bike
> >fitted out properly, although I know this could cost a lot extra. I know
> >some stores use the Bike Fit system. Does anyone know if any stores in
> >Sydney do this? Who does the best bike fitting in Sydney? Am I correct
> >in thinking that any store will do this for the appropriate charge?

[Luther Blissett]

RossB wrote:
*snip*
> Andrew, your suggestions about flexibility and core strength are
> excellent, and especially useful for younger riders. Unfortunately,
> despite stretching every day for years (I was running about 100km a week
> until recently, when an injury caused me to switch to cycling) I have
> never been remotely flexible despite daily stretching. And at 40, as my
> sports doctor keeps reminding me, I'm not likely to get more flexible
> now, however much stretching I do. Fortunately, I already have good core
> strength - I work out 2 or 3 times a week at the gym, focussing
> especially on abs, delts and lower back muscles, and my running
> background gives me good endurance. Without these, the switch to cycling
> would have been even harder. But I certainly agree that flexibility and
> core strength are things that people should be taught about much earlier
> - certainly before they develop lower back problems, which so many
> people have - and especially for anyone contemplating running, cycling
> or another sport.
>
> Ross

All very good points, there are many things you can do that improve your
cycling ability.
I did many years of judo in my early teens, where I was taught all kinds
of breakfalls, and as with all MA training you practise it over and over
until it becomes second nature, part of the muscle memory. This has
helped greatly in MTBing and when I was a cycle courier - every stack
where I came off the bike I landed safely, even when my legs were
wrapped around the frame.

- LB

[Luther Blissett]

RossB wrote:
*snip*
> Andrew, your suggestions about flexibility and core strength are
> excellent, and especially useful for younger riders. Unfortunately,
> despite stretching every day for years (I was running about 100km a week
> until recently, when an injury caused me to switch to cycling) I have
> never been remotely flexible despite daily stretching. And at 40, as my
> sports doctor keeps reminding me, I'm not likely to get more flexible
> now, however much stretching I do. Fortunately, I already have good core
> strength - I work out 2 or 3 times a week at the gym, focussing
> especially on abs, delts and lower back muscles, and my running
> background gives me good endurance. Without these, the switch to cycling
> would have been even harder. But I certainly agree that flexibility and
> core strength are things that people should be taught about much earlier
> - certainly before they develop lower back problems, which so many
> people have - and especially for anyone contemplating running, cycling
> or another sport.
>
> Ross

All very good points, there are many things you can do that improve your
cycling ability.
I did many years of judo in my early teens, where I was taught all kinds
of breakfalls, and as with all MA training you practise it over and over
until it becomes second nature, part of the muscle memory. This has
helped greatly in MTBing and when I was a cycle courier - every stack
where I came off the bike I landed safely, even when my legs were
wrapped around the frame.

- LB

[spanky]

B]NO doubt about this one.

Completely Steve Hogg.

Felt very strange for a few weeks as he had warned me, but I took 45
minutes off my 180.2k time trial at Ironman Australia 2003. Have nothing
But praise for this very experienced man.

Dont mess with the rest.. go the best!!!!



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[spanky]

B]NO doubt about this one.

Completely Steve Hogg.

Felt very strange for a few weeks as he had warned me, but I took 45
minutes off my 180.2k time trial at Ironman Australia 2003. Have nothing
But praise for this very experienced man.

Dont mess with the rest.. go the best!!!!



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Peter Vesel]

"hippy" > wrote in message >
> I would still like to try one of these Kennedy/Hogg fittings
> just to see if there IS any benefit, at least for me... costly
> "test" though.
>
> It will be some time before I get another bike anyway...
>
> hippy
>

Where is the "costly test"?
If it doesn't work go and get your money back. I can't see the risk.

Peter

[Peter Vesel]

"hippy" > wrote in message >
> I would still like to try one of these Kennedy/Hogg fittings
> just to see if there IS any benefit, at least for me... costly
> "test" though.
>
> It will be some time before I get another bike anyway...
>
> hippy
>

Where is the "costly test"?
If it doesn't work go and get your money back. I can't see the risk.

Peter

[Gary K]

You guys are really too much.

Trumpeting the oldest marketing tool in the book, the money-back
guarantee then saying he is not in it for the money..

I've never read so much crap in aus.bicycle



Andrew Price > wrote:

> "hippy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Peter Vesel" > wrote in message
> > news:hQD4b.76466$bo1.25460@news-
> > > Where is the "costly test"?
> > > If it doesn't work go and get your money back. I can't see the risk.
> >
> > Oh yes. I'm sorry. I forgot about the money-back gaurantee.
> > I wonder if anyone has asked for their money back?
> >
> According to Steve Hogg, about 2 or 3 riders out of about 5000+ riders
> fitted have asked for and gotten full refunds.
>
> He is not in it for the money - he is fascinated by the applied science of
> human movement. Very few LBS's would have spent as much time as he (and John
> Kennedy) have in studying and applying what is going to work best for a road
> cyclist with their particular dimensions/injury history/ current
> flexibility.
>
> The next time you see a funny looking stem in a bunch of roadies going
> somewhere in Sydney, ask the owner how he feels about the position after
> lots of klicks on the road - most will be positive.
>
> Perhaps the even more valuable thing is listening or reading what
> Hogg/Rpbertson say will or won't make a difference to you as you go down
> that never ending road of trying to go better. Expensive equipment is about
> .05% - improving your core strength, flexibility, and endurance (in that
> order) will get you the biggest gains you can make - but we will always go
> for the gee gaws before the slow progress stuff - such is human nature.
>
> best, Andrew (remove the .x1 to reply)

[Gary K]

You guys are really too much.

Trumpeting the oldest marketing tool in the book, the money-back
guarantee then saying he is not in it for the money..

I've never read so much crap in aus.bicycle



Andrew Price > wrote:

> "hippy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Peter Vesel" > wrote in message
> > news:hQD4b.76466$bo1.25460@news-
> > > Where is the "costly test"?
> > > If it doesn't work go and get your money back. I can't see the risk.
> >
> > Oh yes. I'm sorry. I forgot about the money-back gaurantee.
> > I wonder if anyone has asked for their money back?
> >
> According to Steve Hogg, about 2 or 3 riders out of about 5000+ riders
> fitted have asked for and gotten full refunds.
>
> He is not in it for the money - he is fascinated by the applied science of
> human movement. Very few LBS's would have spent as much time as he (and John
> Kennedy) have in studying and applying what is going to work best for a road
> cyclist with their particular dimensions/injury history/ current
> flexibility.
>
> The next time you see a funny looking stem in a bunch of roadies going
> somewhere in Sydney, ask the owner how he feels about the position after
> lots of klicks on the road - most will be positive.
>
> Perhaps the even more valuable thing is listening or reading what
> Hogg/Rpbertson say will or won't make a difference to you as you go down
> that never ending road of trying to go better. Expensive equipment is about
> .05% - improving your core strength, flexibility, and endurance (in that
> order) will get you the biggest gains you can make - but we will always go
> for the gee gaws before the slow progress stuff - such is human nature.
>
> best, Andrew (remove the .x1 to reply)

[Luther Blissett]

Andrew Price wrote:
*snip*
> According to Steve Hogg, about 2 or 3 riders out of about 5000+ riders
> fitted have asked for and gotten full refunds.

I don't wish to cast aspersions, but 5000+ sounds a bit far fetched. I
know cycling is popular, but I don't think that there would be 5000
people in Australia who would pay extra for a bike fitting, let alone
$300 or whatever it is!

- LB

[Luther Blissett]

Andrew Price wrote:
*snip*
> According to Steve Hogg, about 2 or 3 riders out of about 5000+ riders
> fitted have asked for and gotten full refunds.

I don't wish to cast aspersions, but 5000+ sounds a bit far fetched. I
know cycling is popular, but I don't think that there would be 5000
people in Australia who would pay extra for a bike fitting, let alone
$300 or whatever it is!

- LB

[hippy]

"Luther Blissett" > wrote in message
...
> I don't wish to cast aspersions, but 5000+ sounds a bit far fetched. I
> know cycling is popular, but I don't think that there would be 5000
> people in Australia who would pay extra for a bike fitting, let alone
> $300 or whatever it is!

Maybe he counts return customers? The ones that come back
after they have 'adjusted' to their initial new position and can
be stretched further, etc.

hippy

[hippy]

"Luther Blissett" > wrote in message
...
> I don't wish to cast aspersions, but 5000+ sounds a bit far fetched. I
> know cycling is popular, but I don't think that there would be 5000
> people in Australia who would pay extra for a bike fitting, let alone
> $300 or whatever it is!

Maybe he counts return customers? The ones that come back
after they have 'adjusted' to their initial new position and can
be stretched further, etc.

hippy

[hippy]

"rickster" > wrote in message
om...
> Hogg/Kennedy Cyclefit made easy:
>
> put seat back as far as possible.
> put head stem as high as possible
> be nice an upright, look like a dork
>
> That'll $ 300 thanks

hehehe.. I just sent this to my mate who
recently had the Kennedy frame built for
him. I eagerly await his response :-)
He has to be nice though - I just paid
for his spokes - the credit card-lacking
freak! :-)

hippy

[hippy]

"rickster" > wrote in message
om...
> Hogg/Kennedy Cyclefit made easy:
>
> put seat back as far as possible.
> put head stem as high as possible
> be nice an upright, look like a dork
>
> That'll $ 300 thanks

hehehe.. I just sent this to my mate who
recently had the Kennedy frame built for
him. I eagerly await his response :-)
He has to be nice though - I just paid
for his spokes - the credit card-lacking
freak! :-)

hippy

[Lasalles]

Rickster wrote:
> Hogg/Kennedy Cyclefit made easy:
> put seat back as far as possible. put head stem as high as possible be
> nice an upright, look like a dork That'll $ 300 thanks



Agreed here,ive been to Steve Hogg,he's a great bloke but his ideas
are sort of WAY OUT THERE... Dont rule him out though, there could be
method to his madness??? Dont go to any old bike shop either Ross,
anyone can get a fitkit style setup in their bike shop and say ok do
this,do that and Presto your done. I would highly reccomend Kerry
Hopkins at ABC (Liverpool),he's alot cheaper than Hogg and you wont
end up buying a new stem,seat,seatpost,handlebars etc... He has years
of experience with building frames and his two sons are both ex Junior
World Champs... He knows his stuff.



--
Felt FS850

>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Lasalles]

Rickster wrote:
> Hogg/Kennedy Cyclefit made easy:
> put seat back as far as possible. put head stem as high as possible be
> nice an upright, look like a dork That'll $ 300 thanks



Agreed here,ive been to Steve Hogg,he's a great bloke but his ideas
are sort of WAY OUT THERE... Dont rule him out though, there could be
method to his madness??? Dont go to any old bike shop either Ross,
anyone can get a fitkit style setup in their bike shop and say ok do
this,do that and Presto your done. I would highly reccomend Kerry
Hopkins at ABC (Liverpool),he's alot cheaper than Hogg and you wont
end up buying a new stem,seat,seatpost,handlebars etc... He has years
of experience with building frames and his two sons are both ex Junior
World Champs... He knows his stuff.



--
Felt FS850

>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Peter Vesel]

Of course he has to make a living out of it.
But he has also made it his obsession in trying to fit people to bikes and
improve both comfort on the bike and performance.

Read this months copy of Bicycling Australia or go to the bike show at
Rosehill this Saturday and speak to the man himself.

peter


"Gary K" > wrote in message
. au...
> You guys are really too much.
>
> Trumpeting the oldest marketing tool in the book, the money-back
> guarantee then saying he is not in it for the money..
>
> I've never read so much crap in aus.bicycle
>
>
>
> Andrew Price > wrote:
>
> > "hippy" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > "Peter Vesel" > wrote in message
> > > news:hQD4b.76466$bo1.25460@news-
> > > > Where is the "costly test"?
> > > > If it doesn't work go and get your money back. I can't see the risk.
> > >
> > > Oh yes. I'm sorry. I forgot about the money-back gaurantee.
> > > I wonder if anyone has asked for their money back?
> > >
> > According to Steve Hogg, about 2 or 3 riders out of about 5000+ riders
> > fitted have asked for and gotten full refunds.
> >
> > He is not in it for the money - he is fascinated by the applied science
of
> > human movement. Very few LBS's would have spent as much time as he (and
John
> > Kennedy) have in studying and applying what is going to work best for a
road
> > cyclist with their particular dimensions/injury history/ current
> > flexibility.
> >
> > The next time you see a funny looking stem in a bunch of roadies going
> > somewhere in Sydney, ask the owner how he feels about the position after
> > lots of klicks on the road - most will be positive.
> >
> > Perhaps the even more valuable thing is listening or reading what
> > Hogg/Rpbertson say will or won't make a difference to you as you go down
> > that never ending road of trying to go better. Expensive equipment is
about
> > .05% - improving your core strength, flexibility, and endurance (in that
> > order) will get you the biggest gains you can make - but we will always
go
> > for the gee gaws before the slow progress stuff - such is human nature.
> >
> > best, Andrew (remove the .x1 to reply)

[Peter Vesel]

Of course he has to make a living out of it.
But he has also made it his obsession in trying to fit people to bikes and
improve both comfort on the bike and performance.

Read this months copy of Bicycling Australia or go to the bike show at
Rosehill this Saturday and speak to the man himself.

peter


"Gary K" > wrote in message
. au...
> You guys are really too much.
>
> Trumpeting the oldest marketing tool in the book, the money-back
> guarantee then saying he is not in it for the money..
>
> I've never read so much crap in aus.bicycle
>
>
>
> Andrew Price > wrote:
>
> > "hippy" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > "Peter Vesel" > wrote in message
> > > news:hQD4b.76466$bo1.25460@news-
> > > > Where is the "costly test"?
> > > > If it doesn't work go and get your money back. I can't see the risk.
> > >
> > > Oh yes. I'm sorry. I forgot about the money-back gaurantee.
> > > I wonder if anyone has asked for their money back?
> > >
> > According to Steve Hogg, about 2 or 3 riders out of about 5000+ riders
> > fitted have asked for and gotten full refunds.
> >
> > He is not in it for the money - he is fascinated by the applied science
of
> > human movement. Very few LBS's would have spent as much time as he (and
John
> > Kennedy) have in studying and applying what is going to work best for a
road
> > cyclist with their particular dimensions/injury history/ current
> > flexibility.
> >
> > The next time you see a funny looking stem in a bunch of roadies going
> > somewhere in Sydney, ask the owner how he feels about the position after
> > lots of klicks on the road - most will be positive.
> >
> > Perhaps the even more valuable thing is listening or reading what
> > Hogg/Rpbertson say will or won't make a difference to you as you go down
> > that never ending road of trying to go better. Expensive equipment is
about
> > .05% - improving your core strength, flexibility, and endurance (in that
> > order) will get you the biggest gains you can make - but we will always
go
> > for the gee gaws before the slow progress stuff - such is human nature.
> >
> > best, Andrew (remove the .x1 to reply)

[Peter Vesel]

"rickster" > wrote in message > >
>
> Hogg/Kennedy Cyclefit made easy:
>
> put seat back as far as possible.
> put head stem as high as possible
> be nice an upright, look like a dork
>
> That'll $ 300 thanks

Just like Miguel Indurain

[Peter Vesel]

"rickster" > wrote in message > >
>
> Hogg/Kennedy Cyclefit made easy:
>
> put seat back as far as possible.
> put head stem as high as possible
> be nice an upright, look like a dork
>
> That'll $ 300 thanks

Just like Miguel Indurain

[rickster]

Lasalles > wrote in message >...
> Rickster wrote:
> > Hogg/Kennedy Cyclefit made easy:
> > put seat back as far as possible. put head stem as high as possible be
> > nice an upright, look like a dork That'll $ 300 thanks
>
>
>
> Agreed here,ive been to Steve Hogg,he's a great bloke but his ideas
> are sort of WAY OUT THERE... Dont rule him out though, there could be
> method to his madness??? [snip]


Yeah, I'm just ****ing around. Those guys put heaps of thought into
their fit system, more than most, who seem to be dictated by the
latest Euro trends. Mention Kennedy to other Melbourne frame builders
all they'll all roll thier eyes.

[rickster]

Lasalles > wrote in message >...
> Rickster wrote:
> > Hogg/Kennedy Cyclefit made easy:
> > put seat back as far as possible. put head stem as high as possible be
> > nice an upright, look like a dork That'll $ 300 thanks
>
>
>
> Agreed here,ive been to Steve Hogg,he's a great bloke but his ideas
> are sort of WAY OUT THERE... Dont rule him out though, there could be
> method to his madness??? [snip]


Yeah, I'm just ****ing around. Those guys put heaps of thought into
their fit system, more than most, who seem to be dictated by the
latest Euro trends. Mention Kennedy to other Melbourne frame builders
all they'll all roll thier eyes.

[rickster]

"Peter Vesel" > wrote in message >...
> "rickster" > wrote in message > >
> >
> > Hogg/Kennedy Cyclefit made easy:
> >
> > put seat back as far as possible.
> > put head stem as high as possible
> > be nice an upright, look like a dork
> >
> > That'll $ 300 thanks
>
> Just like Miguel Indurain


And just unlike every pro in the peleton. So what's your point ?

[rickster]

"Peter Vesel" > wrote in message >...
> "rickster" > wrote in message > >
> >
> > Hogg/Kennedy Cyclefit made easy:
> >
> > put seat back as far as possible.
> > put head stem as high as possible
> > be nice an upright, look like a dork
> >
> > That'll $ 300 thanks
>
> Just like Miguel Indurain


And just unlike every pro in the peleton. So what's your point ?

[imabuff1]

Lasalles wrote:
> Agreed here,ive been to Steve Hogg,he's a great bloke but his ideas are
> sort of WAY OUT THERE... Dont rule him out though, there could be method
> to his madness??? Dont go to any old bike shop either Ross, anyone can
> get a fitkit style setup in their bike shop and say ok do this,do that
> and Presto your done. I would highly reccomend Kerry Hopkins at ABC
> (Liverpool),he's alot cheaper than Hogg and you wont end up buying a new
> stem,seat,seatpost,handlebars etc... He has years of experience with
> building frames and his two sons are both ex Junior World Champs... He
> knows his stuff.



I have to agree with Lasalles.

But I am bias as Shaun Hopkins is my best mate. I have had a Steve Hogg
Fit Kit myself, I spent a fortune, it was fine whilst I still had weight
but when I lost it I had to keep putting the stem down.

See Kerry or find yourself a good coach. When I do setups I use the
basic fitkit messurements from the program but only use that as a
starting point. It still comes down to personal preference & comfort. It
might look right but it may feel crap.

Cheers.



--
I feel the need, the need for speed.

>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[imabuff1]

Lasalles wrote:
> Agreed here,ive been to Steve Hogg,he's a great bloke but his ideas are
> sort of WAY OUT THERE... Dont rule him out though, there could be method
> to his madness??? Dont go to any old bike shop either Ross, anyone can
> get a fitkit style setup in their bike shop and say ok do this,do that
> and Presto your done. I would highly reccomend Kerry Hopkins at ABC
> (Liverpool),he's alot cheaper than Hogg and you wont end up buying a new
> stem,seat,seatpost,handlebars etc... He has years of experience with
> building frames and his two sons are both ex Junior World Champs... He
> knows his stuff.



I have to agree with Lasalles.

But I am bias as Shaun Hopkins is my best mate. I have had a Steve Hogg
Fit Kit myself, I spent a fortune, it was fine whilst I still had weight
but when I lost it I had to keep putting the stem down.

See Kerry or find yourself a good coach. When I do setups I use the
basic fitkit messurements from the program but only use that as a
starting point. It still comes down to personal preference & comfort. It
might look right but it may feel crap.

Cheers.



--
I feel the need, the need for speed.

>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Peter Vesel]

I am assuming you're point was it is important to look cool.
I'd happily look like a dork if I was the fastest.

Not everybody has the capability to ride with their front as low as Chris
Boardman.

Peter



"rickster" > wrote in message
om...
> "Peter Vesel" > wrote in message
>...
> > "rickster" > wrote in message > >
> > >
> > > Hogg/Kennedy Cyclefit made easy:
> > >
> > > put seat back as far as possible.
> > > put head stem as high as possible
> > > be nice an upright, look like a dork
> > >
> > > That'll $ 300 thanks
> >
> > Just like Miguel Indurain
>
>
> And just unlike every pro in the peleton. So what's your point ?

[Peter Vesel]

I am assuming you're point was it is important to look cool.
I'd happily look like a dork if I was the fastest.

Not everybody has the capability to ride with their front as low as Chris
Boardman.

Peter



"rickster" > wrote in message
om...
> "Peter Vesel" > wrote in message
>...
> > "rickster" > wrote in message > >
> > >
> > > Hogg/Kennedy Cyclefit made easy:
> > >
> > > put seat back as far as possible.
> > > put head stem as high as possible
> > > be nice an upright, look like a dork
> > >
> > > That'll $ 300 thanks
> >
> > Just like Miguel Indurain
>
>
> And just unlike every pro in the peleton. So what's your point ?

[Lasalles]

Peter Vesel wrote:
> I am assuming you're point was it is important to look cool. I'd happily
> look like a dork if I was the fastest.Peter


Yes just look at Graham Obree LOL...



--
Felt FS850

>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Lasalles]

Peter Vesel wrote:
> I am assuming you're point was it is important to look cool. I'd happily
> look like a dork if I was the fastest.Peter


Yes just look at Graham Obree LOL...



--
Felt FS850

>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Andrew Swan]

Peter Vesel wrote:
> Steve Hogg ... is giving one of his talks this weekend (Saturday only) and
> it is well worth listening to.... as is Andrew Richards.
>

Went to both talks yesterday, both were excellent (best part of the show
IMO, along with the amaaaaazing trial riding display). Andrew (who
apparently is a road racer as well as a chiro) explained why the most
important factor for performance (and long term health) is your position
on the bike (hope I'm not doing him an injustice here). This is because
in order to use your whole lung capacity, and not just the smaller top
half, (a) your diaphragm needs to be able to work properly (hence your
abs can't be tense and your spine needs to be straight) and (b) the 18
or so muscles that have a postural as well as a breathing function need
not to be performing any postural work, freeing them up for breathing only.

He explained that good position in turn depends on good posture. For
example, your reach to the bars depends on how straight your spine is,
which in turn depends on whether your hips are tilted forward/back, etc.
(interesting factoid - did you know that 90% of your brain function is
devoted to posture and movement, leaving 10% for all the other stuff
like the five senses, emotions, thought, etc.)

Steve made some good points in his talk, e.g.:
- the optimal position for a rider doesn't just depend on their static
dimensions (e.g. leg/arm length, etc). It is more determined by their
level of body function, e.g. flexibility (muscle expansion/contraction
range), and core body strength. Hence the invalidity of systems that are
purely based on body size (I think he was alluding to FitKit, although
he didn't name names).
- people have said that people he fits come out of the shop looking
"weird". Well, sometimes that is true simply because the rider IS weird,
not in the head, but in having an asymmetric body (which is not uncommon
at all). Although few people have leg bones of different lengths (people
who have had polio or a major trauma like a breakage being the
exceptions), many people have different *functional* leg lengths because
their pelvis is not square to the centreline of the bike, usually
because the two halves of the pelvis are not in the same plane - one is
tilted forward/back relative to the other (because of a rough birth,
falling out of the high chair as a toddler, etc.). This means that of
the two "sit" bones (can't recall the techo name - ischeal
tuberosities?) at the bottom of the pelvis, one is in front of the
other, hence why many people sit crooked. This is what causes the
functional leg length discrepancy - because one hip is behind the other,
that leg can't reach as far as the other. In this case, packing is
required between the shoe and the pedal to make up the difference.
Sometimes this can be as simple as a second cleat (which in the case of
Look pedals is 9mm).
- his method is not simply "to put the seat back as far as it will go
and the stem as high as it will go" - this might be the outcome for many
people because they have poor body function, e.g. bad flexibility. It
might not mean looking like a pro rider, but it's the best position for
that rider to open up their lungs and diaphragm so they can breathe
properly and not burn energy on maintaining a position that's not right
for them (even though it might photograph better). He went on to say
that he has fitted out plenty of people who do come out looking like
pros, but usually they only are the pros, because only those riders have
the necessary level of body function to be efficient in such a low position.
- bike fitting seems to be a "snapshot" process - someone like Steve can
only give you the ideal position for how your body is today - if you are
doing something to improve your body function, you probably need to be
refitted from time to time to take advantage of the improvements. Steve
told a story about one rider for whom he fitted quite a large shim under
their shoe (might have been 9mm) - over the years as the rider improved
physically, Steve was able to reduce the shim thickness to the point
where it could be removed altogether.

Anyway, I was very impressed with Steve's methodical and logical
approach. Previously I had only heard that he was full-on, intense,
liked to talk, and turned out some riders with strange positions. Seems
none of those things are wrong, but now I understand way. Think I'll be
heading his way before I buy my next bike (helps that his shop is only a
klick or so from my place!).

And no, I have no affiliation or other connection to Steve Hogg - he
only knows me as a guy that asked a question in his seminar. My question
was "what general advice would you give to riders to improve their body
function" (and therefore be able to achieve a better bike position). His
reply (in a nutshell, remembering he doesn't like one-word answers) was
"do yoga, pilates, feldenkrais (sp?), anything [that makes you more
flexible and improves core body strength]". He recommended the book
"Strong to the Core" by Lisa Westlake:

http://abcshop.com.au/browse/product.asp?productid=158020

Think I'll order me one of them now...

Hope this helps,

&roo

[Andrew Swan]

Peter Vesel wrote:
> Steve Hogg ... is giving one of his talks this weekend (Saturday only) and
> it is well worth listening to.... as is Andrew Richards.
>

Went to both talks yesterday, both were excellent (best part of the show
IMO, along with the amaaaaazing trial riding display). Andrew (who
apparently is a road racer as well as a chiro) explained why the most
important factor for performance (and long term health) is your position
on the bike (hope I'm not doing him an injustice here). This is because
in order to use your whole lung capacity, and not just the smaller top
half, (a) your diaphragm needs to be able to work properly (hence your
abs can't be tense and your spine needs to be straight) and (b) the 18
or so muscles that have a postural as well as a breathing function need
not to be performing any postural work, freeing them up for breathing only.

He explained that good position in turn depends on good posture. For
example, your reach to the bars depends on how straight your spine is,
which in turn depends on whether your hips are tilted forward/back, etc.
(interesting factoid - did you know that 90% of your brain function is
devoted to posture and movement, leaving 10% for all the other stuff
like the five senses, emotions, thought, etc.)

Steve made some good points in his talk, e.g.:
- the optimal position for a rider doesn't just depend on their static
dimensions (e.g. leg/arm length, etc). It is more determined by their
level of body function, e.g. flexibility (muscle expansion/contraction
range), and core body strength. Hence the invalidity of systems that are
purely based on body size (I think he was alluding to FitKit, although
he didn't name names).
- people have said that people he fits come out of the shop looking
"weird". Well, sometimes that is true simply because the rider IS weird,
not in the head, but in having an asymmetric body (which is not uncommon
at all). Although few people have leg bones of different lengths (people
who have had polio or a major trauma like a breakage being the
exceptions), many people have different *functional* leg lengths because
their pelvis is not square to the centreline of the bike, usually
because the two halves of the pelvis are not in the same plane - one is
tilted forward/back relative to the other (because of a rough birth,
falling out of the high chair as a toddler, etc.). This means that of
the two "sit" bones (can't recall the techo name - ischeal
tuberosities?) at the bottom of the pelvis, one is in front of the
other, hence why many people sit crooked. This is what causes the
functional leg length discrepancy - because one hip is behind the other,
that leg can't reach as far as the other. In this case, packing is
required between the shoe and the pedal to make up the difference.
Sometimes this can be as simple as a second cleat (which in the case of
Look pedals is 9mm).
- his method is not simply "to put the seat back as far as it will go
and the stem as high as it will go" - this might be the outcome for many
people because they have poor body function, e.g. bad flexibility. It
might not mean looking like a pro rider, but it's the best position for
that rider to open up their lungs and diaphragm so they can breathe
properly and not burn energy on maintaining a position that's not right
for them (even though it might photograph better). He went on to say
that he has fitted out plenty of people who do come out looking like
pros, but usually they only are the pros, because only those riders have
the necessary level of body function to be efficient in such a low position.
- bike fitting seems to be a "snapshot" process - someone like Steve can
only give you the ideal position for how your body is today - if you are
doing something to improve your body function, you probably need to be
refitted from time to time to take advantage of the improvements. Steve
told a story about one rider for whom he fitted quite a large shim under
their shoe (might have been 9mm) - over the years as the rider improved
physically, Steve was able to reduce the shim thickness to the point
where it could be removed altogether.

Anyway, I was very impressed with Steve's methodical and logical
approach. Previously I had only heard that he was full-on, intense,
liked to talk, and turned out some riders with strange positions. Seems
none of those things are wrong, but now I understand way. Think I'll be
heading his way before I buy my next bike (helps that his shop is only a
klick or so from my place!).

And no, I have no affiliation or other connection to Steve Hogg - he
only knows me as a guy that asked a question in his seminar. My question
was "what general advice would you give to riders to improve their body
function" (and therefore be able to achieve a better bike position). His
reply (in a nutshell, remembering he doesn't like one-word answers) was
"do yoga, pilates, feldenkrais (sp?), anything [that makes you more
flexible and improves core body strength]". He recommended the book
"Strong to the Core" by Lisa Westlake:

http://abcshop.com.au/browse/product.asp?productid=158020

Think I'll order me one of them now...

Hope this helps,

&roo

[VeloFlash]

This is Martin Vinnicombe's bike fit at Ryde. Have not had personal
experience but at $200 it has economies over $350. I have some cycling
buddies who are coached by MV.

http://www.bikeschool.com.au/Ergofit.html



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[VeloFlash]

This is Martin Vinnicombe's bike fit at Ryde. Have not had personal
experience but at $200 it has economies over $350. I have some cycling
buddies who are coached by MV.

http://www.bikeschool.com.au/Ergofit.html



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Lasalles]

I shouldnt laugh but one of Hoggy's beleifs was that if you were a
guy and mainly lived in a female family then you would point your toe
downward under stressful pedalling and if you lived in a mainly male
household you would drop your heel during the pedal stroke...
100%%%%% FACT...



--
Felt FS850

>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Lasalles]

I shouldnt laugh but one of Hoggy's beleifs was that if you were a
guy and mainly lived in a female family then you would point your toe
downward under stressful pedalling and if you lived in a mainly male
household you would drop your heel during the pedal stroke...
100%%%%% FACT...



--
Felt FS850

>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[rickster]

"Peter Vesel" > wrote in message >...
> I am assuming you're point was it is important to look cool.
> I'd happily look like a dork if I was the fastest.
>

nope, my point is don't look to the pros on bike set-up. And don't
show me one pro as to say, look, the upright position of Kennedy/Hogg
is right. Those guys are in their own league.

> Not everybody has the capability to ride with their front as low as Chris
> Boardman.
>
> Peter

Never said that.

[rickster]

"Peter Vesel" > wrote in message >...
> I am assuming you're point was it is important to look cool.
> I'd happily look like a dork if I was the fastest.
>

nope, my point is don't look to the pros on bike set-up. And don't
show me one pro as to say, look, the upright position of Kennedy/Hogg
is right. Those guys are in their own league.

> Not everybody has the capability to ride with their front as low as Chris
> Boardman.
>
> Peter

Never said that.

[Peter Vesel]

The point I'm trying to make is that they don't necessarily put everybody in
an upright position.


"rickster" > wrote in message
om...
> "Peter Vesel" > wrote in message
>...
> > I am assuming you're point was it is important to look cool.
> > I'd happily look like a dork if I was the fastest.
> >
>
> nope, my point is don't look to the pros on bike set-up. And don't
> show me one pro as to say, look, the upright position of Kennedy/Hogg
> is right. Those guys are in their own league.
>
> > Not everybody has the capability to ride with their front as low as
Chris
> > Boardman.
> >
> > Peter
>
> Never said that.

[Peter Vesel]

The point I'm trying to make is that they don't necessarily put everybody in
an upright position.


"rickster" > wrote in message
om...
> "Peter Vesel" > wrote in message
>...
> > I am assuming you're point was it is important to look cool.
> > I'd happily look like a dork if I was the fastest.
> >
>
> nope, my point is don't look to the pros on bike set-up. And don't
> show me one pro as to say, look, the upright position of Kennedy/Hogg
> is right. Those guys are in their own league.
>
> > Not everybody has the capability to ride with their front as low as
Chris
> > Boardman.
> >
> > Peter
>
> Never said that.

[Chester1]

I agree Steve Hogg and Cyclefit are well worth the money. I tried
another bike shop alternative system, which did me no good at all. I
avoided going to Steve for quite a while, using DIY methods, and because
of the cost.

The guy is first class in his knowledge and methods. I have been to
Andrew Richards as well, who has also helped me with gaining
flexibility. The results are I used to have all sorts of pains and now I
don't. I may not be the fastest bloke in the bunch, but I'm a darn sight
better than I used to be.

I don't believe Steve counts return customers and adjustments in his
figures. He is always busy over there, and surely the number of big
names who go and see him must speak for itself.

My next bike is going to be custom built. I'm thinking of giving Kerry
Hopkins a go as he seems to be a bit cheaper than most, but I intend to
use the measurements given by Cyclefit as I think they are quite
suitable and comfortable for me. I don't know if he does bikes with a
Campag gruppo anymore though...very important....



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
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