Rider gradings

[Andrew Lighten]

I've got a bit of a newbie question here: how are riders graded for
competition?

I've seen mention of people being "D grade", "C grade", etc. What kind of
performance criteria are used to determine what grade someone is in, and how
could I get a rough idea of what grade I might be in should I choose to join
a club and start competing?

Thanks,
Andrew.

[Suzy Jackson]

"Andrew Lighten" > wrote in message
...

> I've seen mention of people being "D grade", "C grade", etc. What kind of
> performance criteria are used to determine what grade someone is in, and
how
> could I get a rough idea of what grade I might be in should I choose to
join
> a club and start competing?

It's all voodoo. If an unknown shows up to a club race, the handicapper
looks them over, and assigns a grade. If you haven't raced before, you
generally get put into D grade, which is the second lowest. E Grade is
usually reserved for the really old guys.

So then when you blow D grade apart on your first race, and finish 400m
ahead of the pack, a bunch of people will complain that you're a burglar,
and you'll get stuck into C grade next week. Some people get a bit of a
reputation for sneaking around the different clubs trying to con the
handicapper into putting them into a lower grade than they really should.

If you're properly graded, and a regular, you'll find your performance will
generally improve with time, so after a while you'll stop getting dropped,
then you'll start to get involved in the sprint, and get noticed by the
handicapper. If you're on the podium too many times in a row, they'll
suggest that it would be good for you to race with the next grade.

Of course if you show up to your first race with enormous bulging shaved
thighs, and a well worn expensive bike, be prepared to race your first race
with the C or even B graders.

Regards,

Suzy

[Suzy Jackson]

"Andrew Lighten" > wrote in message
...

> I've seen mention of people being "D grade", "C grade", etc. What kind of
> performance criteria are used to determine what grade someone is in, and
how
> could I get a rough idea of what grade I might be in should I choose to
join
> a club and start competing?

It's all voodoo. If an unknown shows up to a club race, the handicapper
looks them over, and assigns a grade. If you haven't raced before, you
generally get put into D grade, which is the second lowest. E Grade is
usually reserved for the really old guys.

So then when you blow D grade apart on your first race, and finish 400m
ahead of the pack, a bunch of people will complain that you're a burglar,
and you'll get stuck into C grade next week. Some people get a bit of a
reputation for sneaking around the different clubs trying to con the
handicapper into putting them into a lower grade than they really should.

If you're properly graded, and a regular, you'll find your performance will
generally improve with time, so after a while you'll stop getting dropped,
then you'll start to get involved in the sprint, and get noticed by the
handicapper. If you're on the podium too many times in a row, they'll
suggest that it would be good for you to race with the next grade.

Of course if you show up to your first race with enormous bulging shaved
thighs, and a well worn expensive bike, be prepared to race your first race
with the C or even B graders.

Regards,

Suzy

[Andrew Swan]

Andrew Lighten wrote:
> I've got a bit of a newbie question here: how are riders graded for
> competition?
>
> I've seen mention of people being "D grade", "C grade", etc. What kind of
> performance criteria are used to determine what grade someone is in, and how
> could I get a rough idea of what grade I might be in should I choose to join
> a club and start competing?
>
> Thanks,
> Andrew.
>
Good question. If you're interested in winning, try to get into as low a
grade as possible, and like Suzy said, if you're graded too low, they'll
soon put you up!

OTOH, bike skills are generally better in the higher grades, so you'll
learn good habits right from the start if they do put you in a higher
grade. Also the bunch goes slightly faster in each grade, as you'd
expect, so you might improve your conditioning faster if you race in a
grade just above one in which you can comfortably sit in the bunch.

I guess burglars are a real problem (like in handicap golf), but I
didn't know whether to be flattered or insulted when for my first ever
race, the starter was very dubious about my claim to be a rank beginner
and therefore in D grade! He even asked (right in front of me) other
guys in my club (which I'd only just joined) whether they knew me.

The simple answer is if you're new to racing but reasonably fit and can
ride in a straight line, you should start in D grade and work your way
up (or stay in D grade and enjoy it!).

HTH,

&roo (who was misheard at the starter's table once and nearly ended up
in a B grade race instead of D grade)

[Andrew Swan]

Andrew Lighten wrote:
> I've got a bit of a newbie question here: how are riders graded for
> competition?
>
> I've seen mention of people being "D grade", "C grade", etc. What kind of
> performance criteria are used to determine what grade someone is in, and how
> could I get a rough idea of what grade I might be in should I choose to join
> a club and start competing?
>
> Thanks,
> Andrew.
>
Good question. If you're interested in winning, try to get into as low a
grade as possible, and like Suzy said, if you're graded too low, they'll
soon put you up!

OTOH, bike skills are generally better in the higher grades, so you'll
learn good habits right from the start if they do put you in a higher
grade. Also the bunch goes slightly faster in each grade, as you'd
expect, so you might improve your conditioning faster if you race in a
grade just above one in which you can comfortably sit in the bunch.

I guess burglars are a real problem (like in handicap golf), but I
didn't know whether to be flattered or insulted when for my first ever
race, the starter was very dubious about my claim to be a rank beginner
and therefore in D grade! He even asked (right in front of me) other
guys in my club (which I'd only just joined) whether they knew me.

The simple answer is if you're new to racing but reasonably fit and can
ride in a straight line, you should start in D grade and work your way
up (or stay in D grade and enjoy it!).

HTH,

&roo (who was misheard at the starter's table once and nearly ended up
in a B grade race instead of D grade)

[Andrew Price]

"Andrew Lighten" > wrote in message
...
> I've got a bit of a newbie question here: how are riders graded for
> competition?
>
Varies hugely, club to club, event to event, country to country.

When you get a grading in a club, DON'T think it has any relevance in opens
(Cycling Federation events - those guys and gels are gooood!)

Some of the greatest bulls**t artists in all humanity can be heard trying to
establish their credentials with the handicapper as an "X" grader - "well
I'm still recovering from the triple by pass, its my granny's old bike, I'm
a certified slow old fat *******, hardly ever raced before, might not be
able to go the distance here..."

The burglars get punted to a higher grade pretty smartly.

You can tell when the handicapper has got it pretty right when there is a
big bunch of you still together after the final corner and its anybody's
race - great fun and builds riding skills like nothing else

And ultimately, you are only competing against yourself - its what you can
do, when called on to do it, that counts

best, Andrew

[Andrew Price]

"Andrew Lighten" > wrote in message
...
> I've got a bit of a newbie question here: how are riders graded for
> competition?
>
Varies hugely, club to club, event to event, country to country.

When you get a grading in a club, DON'T think it has any relevance in opens
(Cycling Federation events - those guys and gels are gooood!)

Some of the greatest bulls**t artists in all humanity can be heard trying to
establish their credentials with the handicapper as an "X" grader - "well
I'm still recovering from the triple by pass, its my granny's old bike, I'm
a certified slow old fat *******, hardly ever raced before, might not be
able to go the distance here..."

The burglars get punted to a higher grade pretty smartly.

You can tell when the handicapper has got it pretty right when there is a
big bunch of you still together after the final corner and its anybody's
race - great fun and builds riding skills like nothing else

And ultimately, you are only competing against yourself - its what you can
do, when called on to do it, that counts

best, Andrew

[hippy]

"Andrew Lighten" > wrote in message
news:3f59f21a$0$95044$c30e37c6@lon-
> I've seen mention of people being "D grade", "C grade", etc. What kind of
> performance criteria are used to determine what grade someone is in, and
how
> could I get a rough idea of what grade I might be in should I choose to
join
> a club and start competing?

If you've realistically not done any racing before, put yourself in
the lowest grade. Even being super fit doesn't mean you will
win, there's tactics and rules to be learnt.
If you wax the field then, sure, put yourself up a grade.

It's quite hard to tell and I had the same question when I started.
I worked my way up in D grade and in one race lapped the field.
Entered into C grade after that and got a place or two, then
crashed and my next C grade race (with many more riders)
I was left for dead - so, even getting the grade right doesn't
mean you will be near the front, or even be able to hang on!

It's nice to win, but it's better to fight for the win!

hippy

[hippy]

"Andrew Lighten" > wrote in message
news:3f59f21a$0$95044$c30e37c6@lon-
> I've seen mention of people being "D grade", "C grade", etc. What kind of
> performance criteria are used to determine what grade someone is in, and
how
> could I get a rough idea of what grade I might be in should I choose to
join
> a club and start competing?

If you've realistically not done any racing before, put yourself in
the lowest grade. Even being super fit doesn't mean you will
win, there's tactics and rules to be learnt.
If you wax the field then, sure, put yourself up a grade.

It's quite hard to tell and I had the same question when I started.
I worked my way up in D grade and in one race lapped the field.
Entered into C grade after that and got a place or two, then
crashed and my next C grade race (with many more riders)
I was left for dead - so, even getting the grade right doesn't
mean you will be near the front, or even be able to hang on!

It's nice to win, but it's better to fight for the win!

hippy

[Arpit]

On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 20:23:27 GMT, "Suzy Jackson" >
wrote:

>"Andrew Lighten" > wrote in message
...
>
>> I've seen mention of people being "D grade", "C grade", etc. What kind of
>> performance criteria are used to determine what grade someone is in, and
>how
>> could I get a rough idea of what grade I might be in should I choose to
>join
>> a club and start competing?
>
>It's all voodoo. If an unknown shows up to a club race, the handicapper
>looks them over, and assigns a grade. If you haven't raced before, you
>generally get put into D grade, which is the second lowest. E Grade is
>usually reserved for the really old guys.
>
>So then when you blow D grade apart on your first race, and finish 400m
>ahead of the pack, a bunch of people will complain that you're a burglar,
>and you'll get stuck into C grade next week. Some people get a bit of a
>reputation for sneaking around the different clubs trying to con the
>handicapper into putting them into a lower grade than they really should.
>
>If you're properly graded, and a regular, you'll find your performance will
>generally improve with time, so after a while you'll stop getting dropped,
>then you'll start to get involved in the sprint, and get noticed by the
>handicapper. If you're on the podium too many times in a row, they'll
>suggest that it would be good for you to race with the next grade.
>
>Of course if you show up to your first race with enormous bulging shaved
>thighs, and a well worn expensive bike, be prepared to race your first race
>with the C or even B graders.
>
>Regards,
>
>Suzy
>

Hmm, I have always feared racing, since I only cycle occaisionally for
fun. I guess if there are grades its a different matter though.

[Arpit]

On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 20:23:27 GMT, "Suzy Jackson" >
wrote:

>"Andrew Lighten" > wrote in message
...
>
>> I've seen mention of people being "D grade", "C grade", etc. What kind of
>> performance criteria are used to determine what grade someone is in, and
>how
>> could I get a rough idea of what grade I might be in should I choose to
>join
>> a club and start competing?
>
>It's all voodoo. If an unknown shows up to a club race, the handicapper
>looks them over, and assigns a grade. If you haven't raced before, you
>generally get put into D grade, which is the second lowest. E Grade is
>usually reserved for the really old guys.
>
>So then when you blow D grade apart on your first race, and finish 400m
>ahead of the pack, a bunch of people will complain that you're a burglar,
>and you'll get stuck into C grade next week. Some people get a bit of a
>reputation for sneaking around the different clubs trying to con the
>handicapper into putting them into a lower grade than they really should.
>
>If you're properly graded, and a regular, you'll find your performance will
>generally improve with time, so after a while you'll stop getting dropped,
>then you'll start to get involved in the sprint, and get noticed by the
>handicapper. If you're on the podium too many times in a row, they'll
>suggest that it would be good for you to race with the next grade.
>
>Of course if you show up to your first race with enormous bulging shaved
>thighs, and a well worn expensive bike, be prepared to race your first race
>with the C or even B graders.
>
>Regards,
>
>Suzy
>

Hmm, I have always feared racing, since I only cycle occaisionally for
fun. I guess if there are grades its a different matter though.

[Andrew Morris]

Andrew...

I was close!!! :-)

Give me six months, and I may be ready to join you ... although, given the
last 4, you'd best make that 12 months!!! :-)


"hippy" > wrote in message
...
> "Andrew Lighten" > wrote in message
> news:3f59f21a$0$95044$c30e37c6@lon-
> > I've seen mention of people being "D grade", "C grade", etc. What kind
of
> > performance criteria are used to determine what grade someone is in, and
> how
> > could I get a rough idea of what grade I might be in should I choose to
> join
> > a club and start competing?
>
> If you've realistically not done any racing before, put yourself in
> the lowest grade. Even being super fit doesn't mean you will
> win, there's tactics and rules to be learnt.
> If you wax the field then, sure, put yourself up a grade.
>
> It's quite hard to tell and I had the same question when I started.
> I worked my way up in D grade and in one race lapped the field.
> Entered into C grade after that and got a place or two, then
> crashed and my next C grade race (with many more riders)
> I was left for dead - so, even getting the grade right doesn't
> mean you will be near the front, or even be able to hang on!
>
> It's nice to win, but it's better to fight for the win!
>
> hippy
>
>

[Andrew Morris]

Andrew...

I was close!!! :-)

Give me six months, and I may be ready to join you ... although, given the
last 4, you'd best make that 12 months!!! :-)


"hippy" > wrote in message
...
> "Andrew Lighten" > wrote in message
> news:3f59f21a$0$95044$c30e37c6@lon-
> > I've seen mention of people being "D grade", "C grade", etc. What kind
of
> > performance criteria are used to determine what grade someone is in, and
> how
> > could I get a rough idea of what grade I might be in should I choose to
> join
> > a club and start competing?
>
> If you've realistically not done any racing before, put yourself in
> the lowest grade. Even being super fit doesn't mean you will
> win, there's tactics and rules to be learnt.
> If you wax the field then, sure, put yourself up a grade.
>
> It's quite hard to tell and I had the same question when I started.
> I worked my way up in D grade and in one race lapped the field.
> Entered into C grade after that and got a place or two, then
> crashed and my next C grade race (with many more riders)
> I was left for dead - so, even getting the grade right doesn't
> mean you will be near the front, or even be able to hang on!
>
> It's nice to win, but it's better to fight for the win!
>
> hippy
>
>

[Trevor S]

"Suzy Jackson" > wrote in
:

<snip>

> So then when you blow D grade apart on your first race, and finish
> 400m ahead of the pack, a bunch of people will complain that you're a
> burglar, and you'll get stuck into C grade next week. Some people get
> a bit of a reputation for sneaking around the different clubs trying
> to con the handicapper into putting them into a lower grade than they
> really should.

I will never understand the theory behind this ? As far as I am concerned,
the guy coming _last_ in C grade is _better_ then the guy coming first in D
Grade therefore you should be trying to progress THROUGH the grades as soon
as you can.

Maybe they should engrave the "trophy" that way ?

"First in D Grade but not as good as the last guy in C Grade" :)


--
Trevor S


"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
-Albert Einstein

[Trevor S]

"Suzy Jackson" > wrote in
:

<snip>

> So then when you blow D grade apart on your first race, and finish
> 400m ahead of the pack, a bunch of people will complain that you're a
> burglar, and you'll get stuck into C grade next week. Some people get
> a bit of a reputation for sneaking around the different clubs trying
> to con the handicapper into putting them into a lower grade than they
> really should.

I will never understand the theory behind this ? As far as I am concerned,
the guy coming _last_ in C grade is _better_ then the guy coming first in D
Grade therefore you should be trying to progress THROUGH the grades as soon
as you can.

Maybe they should engrave the "trophy" that way ?

"First in D Grade but not as good as the last guy in C Grade" :)


--
Trevor S


"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
-Albert Einstein

[Suzy Jackson]

"Trevor S" > wrote in message
...
> > Some people get
> > a bit of a reputation for sneaking around the different clubs trying
> > to con the handicapper into putting them into a lower grade than they
> > really should.
>
> I will never understand the theory behind this ? As far as I am concerned,
> the guy coming _last_ in C grade is _better_ then the guy coming first in
D
> Grade therefore you should be trying to progress THROUGH the grades as
soon
> as you can.

There's usually money involved. I got $10 for finishing 2nd in my D grade
race on the weekend. Also, only the first three ever get a mention in the
results. Everyone else might as well not exist. Having said that though,
if it's not hard work, then it's not particularly enjoyable and you're not
extending yourself.

I have the most fun when I know I'm within striking distance of a placing,
when I know that if I'm having a good day, and if I ride the race using my
brains rather than my legs, and if I just get a little lucky at the end,
that I'll get a place. Last weekend was particularly sweet. One of my team
mates went up the road with a kilometre to go, and I reckoned that was the
winning move, so I sat up and didn't chase him, but instead sat on the
wheels of those who did. As it happened we passed him with 100m to go, and
I'd been sitting in for the start of the sprint, so went hard at (almost)
the right time. The first four placegetters were all within about 2 metres
of each other.

I went up to C grade a couple of months ago voluntarily, as I figured the
extra speed would do me some good, but after a few weeks of going off the
back half way through the race I dropped back to D grade, as it's not fun to
get your arse whipped every week.

However it looks like my stint in C grade has been good for me, as now I've
got a placing in D grade. With luck (and a hell of a lot of training) I
hope that I'll get a bunch more placings, and will then go to C grade
happily, knowing that I've got a good chance of hanging on for most of the
race.

Regards,

Suzy

[Suzy Jackson]

"Trevor S" > wrote in message
...
> > Some people get
> > a bit of a reputation for sneaking around the different clubs trying
> > to con the handicapper into putting them into a lower grade than they
> > really should.
>
> I will never understand the theory behind this ? As far as I am concerned,
> the guy coming _last_ in C grade is _better_ then the guy coming first in
D
> Grade therefore you should be trying to progress THROUGH the grades as
soon
> as you can.

There's usually money involved. I got $10 for finishing 2nd in my D grade
race on the weekend. Also, only the first three ever get a mention in the
results. Everyone else might as well not exist. Having said that though,
if it's not hard work, then it's not particularly enjoyable and you're not
extending yourself.

I have the most fun when I know I'm within striking distance of a placing,
when I know that if I'm having a good day, and if I ride the race using my
brains rather than my legs, and if I just get a little lucky at the end,
that I'll get a place. Last weekend was particularly sweet. One of my team
mates went up the road with a kilometre to go, and I reckoned that was the
winning move, so I sat up and didn't chase him, but instead sat on the
wheels of those who did. As it happened we passed him with 100m to go, and
I'd been sitting in for the start of the sprint, so went hard at (almost)
the right time. The first four placegetters were all within about 2 metres
of each other.

I went up to C grade a couple of months ago voluntarily, as I figured the
extra speed would do me some good, but after a few weeks of going off the
back half way through the race I dropped back to D grade, as it's not fun to
get your arse whipped every week.

However it looks like my stint in C grade has been good for me, as now I've
got a placing in D grade. With luck (and a hell of a lot of training) I
hope that I'll get a bunch more placings, and will then go to C grade
happily, knowing that I've got a good chance of hanging on for most of the
race.

Regards,

Suzy

[Arpit]

How long are the races typically?

On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 12:20:00 GMT, "Suzy Jackson" >
wrote:

>"Trevor S" > wrote in message
...
>> > Some people get
>> > a bit of a reputation for sneaking around the different clubs trying
>> > to con the handicapper into putting them into a lower grade than they
>> > really should.
>>
>> I will never understand the theory behind this ? As far as I am concerned,
>> the guy coming _last_ in C grade is _better_ then the guy coming first in
>D
>> Grade therefore you should be trying to progress THROUGH the grades as
>soon
>> as you can.
>
>There's usually money involved. I got $10 for finishing 2nd in my D grade
>race on the weekend. Also, only the first three ever get a mention in the
>results. Everyone else might as well not exist. Having said that though,
>if it's not hard work, then it's not particularly enjoyable and you're not
>extending yourself.
>
>I have the most fun when I know I'm within striking distance of a placing,
>when I know that if I'm having a good day, and if I ride the race using my
>brains rather than my legs, and if I just get a little lucky at the end,
>that I'll get a place. Last weekend was particularly sweet. One of my team
>mates went up the road with a kilometre to go, and I reckoned that was the
>winning move, so I sat up and didn't chase him, but instead sat on the
>wheels of those who did. As it happened we passed him with 100m to go, and
>I'd been sitting in for the start of the sprint, so went hard at (almost)
>the right time. The first four placegetters were all within about 2 metres
>of each other.
>
>I went up to C grade a couple of months ago voluntarily, as I figured the
>extra speed would do me some good, but after a few weeks of going off the
>back half way through the race I dropped back to D grade, as it's not fun to
>get your arse whipped every week.
>
>However it looks like my stint in C grade has been good for me, as now I've
>got a placing in D grade. With luck (and a hell of a lot of training) I
>hope that I'll get a bunch more placings, and will then go to C grade
>happily, knowing that I've got a good chance of hanging on for most of the
>race.
>
>Regards,
>
>Suzy
>

[Arpit]

How long are the races typically?

On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 12:20:00 GMT, "Suzy Jackson" >
wrote:

>"Trevor S" > wrote in message
...
>> > Some people get
>> > a bit of a reputation for sneaking around the different clubs trying
>> > to con the handicapper into putting them into a lower grade than they
>> > really should.
>>
>> I will never understand the theory behind this ? As far as I am concerned,
>> the guy coming _last_ in C grade is _better_ then the guy coming first in
>D
>> Grade therefore you should be trying to progress THROUGH the grades as
>soon
>> as you can.
>
>There's usually money involved. I got $10 for finishing 2nd in my D grade
>race on the weekend. Also, only the first three ever get a mention in the
>results. Everyone else might as well not exist. Having said that though,
>if it's not hard work, then it's not particularly enjoyable and you're not
>extending yourself.
>
>I have the most fun when I know I'm within striking distance of a placing,
>when I know that if I'm having a good day, and if I ride the race using my
>brains rather than my legs, and if I just get a little lucky at the end,
>that I'll get a place. Last weekend was particularly sweet. One of my team
>mates went up the road with a kilometre to go, and I reckoned that was the
>winning move, so I sat up and didn't chase him, but instead sat on the
>wheels of those who did. As it happened we passed him with 100m to go, and
>I'd been sitting in for the start of the sprint, so went hard at (almost)
>the right time. The first four placegetters were all within about 2 metres
>of each other.
>
>I went up to C grade a couple of months ago voluntarily, as I figured the
>extra speed would do me some good, but after a few weeks of going off the
>back half way through the race I dropped back to D grade, as it's not fun to
>get your arse whipped every week.
>
>However it looks like my stint in C grade has been good for me, as now I've
>got a placing in D grade. With luck (and a hell of a lot of training) I
>hope that I'll get a bunch more placings, and will then go to C grade
>happily, knowing that I've got a good chance of hanging on for most of the
>race.
>
>Regards,
>
>Suzy
>

[hippy]

"Trevor S" > wrote in message
...
> I will never understand the theory behind this ? As far as I am concerned,
> the guy coming _last_ in C grade is _better_ then the guy coming first in
D
> Grade therefore you should be trying to progress THROUGH the grades as
soon
> as you can.

Tell that to the guy that came last in C grade. Look at the face of
the person that came first in D grade and that should explain why
some people want to stay in lower grades. Moving up should be
a goal but it can't be nice getting whipped week in week out.

As for moving through grades as fast as possible - I don't think
that it's such a good idea. I learn something every time I go out
and I'm still racing D after a brief stint in C grade and lots of
time not racing. There's lots to be learnt racing - speeding
through grades might mean you've got fitness but you'll get
to a point where it doesn't help because you need more than
fitness to win.
If you don't know how to hold a wheel, etc. when you get to
the higher grades you wont get far.

Also, it's better to make mistakes in the lower grades, I think,
rather than in the grades where people are taking it quite a
bit more seriously.

hippy

[hippy]

"Trevor S" > wrote in message
...
> I will never understand the theory behind this ? As far as I am concerned,
> the guy coming _last_ in C grade is _better_ then the guy coming first in
D
> Grade therefore you should be trying to progress THROUGH the grades as
soon
> as you can.

Tell that to the guy that came last in C grade. Look at the face of
the person that came first in D grade and that should explain why
some people want to stay in lower grades. Moving up should be
a goal but it can't be nice getting whipped week in week out.

As for moving through grades as fast as possible - I don't think
that it's such a good idea. I learn something every time I go out
and I'm still racing D after a brief stint in C grade and lots of
time not racing. There's lots to be learnt racing - speeding
through grades might mean you've got fitness but you'll get
to a point where it doesn't help because you need more than
fitness to win.
If you don't know how to hold a wheel, etc. when you get to
the higher grades you wont get far.

Also, it's better to make mistakes in the lower grades, I think,
rather than in the grades where people are taking it quite a
bit more seriously.

hippy

[hippy]

"Suzy Jackson" > wrote in message
news:QnF6b.87701$bo1.21295@news-
> There's usually money involved. I got $10 for finishing 2nd in my D grade

$10 can't seriously be the reason people would choose to
stay in a lower grade? Surely it's more than money people
want from cycle racing?

> race on the weekend. Also, only the first three ever get a mention in the
> results. Everyone else might as well not exist. Having said that though,

Personally, having my name written in a results list doesn't mean much. I
know what place I got and that's the important part. e.g. my "concussed
but not last place" result in my first ever race means something to me but
will never get listed anywhere.

> I have the most fun when I know I'm within striking distance of a placing,
> when I know that if I'm having a good day, and if I ride the race using my
> brains rather than my legs, and if I just get a little lucky at the end,

I have to say I don't mind getting a good result (whatever that may be)
using
pure, brute-force, muscle-tearing, must.... keep.... pedalling.... physical
effort.
Different races are good or bad for different reasons though I think.
If I race well, tactically, sweet!
If I out-sprint someone, sweet!
If I bridge a gap and none follow, then get dropped and I'm left in no man's
land for the rest of the race... well ok, that's not so sweet :-P

> that I'll get a place. Last weekend was particularly sweet. One of my
team
> mates went up the road with a kilometre to go, and I reckoned that was the

You have team mates? In D grade? Damn.. I've gotta start hiring! :-)

> However it looks like my stint in C grade has been good for me, as now
I've
> got a placing in D grade. With luck (and a hell of a lot of training) I
> hope that I'll get a bunch more placings, and will then go to C grade
> happily, knowing that I've got a good chance of hanging on for most of the
> race.

Mmm, I wish there were more races on when I'm feeling good. Seems I
go well in one race and then there is nothing else on for a month.
If I get a place in the next D grade race I think I will ask to be put back
in C grade and see how that goes.
Yeah, just checked the calendar, next "race" is a hill climb ITT up the
1 in 20 (it's listed on www.cycle2max.com) so I've got last year's time
to beat. Not much in the way of tactics, just pain. At least this year I
might remember to warm up!

hippy

[hippy]

"Suzy Jackson" > wrote in message
news:QnF6b.87701$bo1.21295@news-
> There's usually money involved. I got $10 for finishing 2nd in my D grade

$10 can't seriously be the reason people would choose to
stay in a lower grade? Surely it's more than money people
want from cycle racing?

> race on the weekend. Also, only the first three ever get a mention in the
> results. Everyone else might as well not exist. Having said that though,

Personally, having my name written in a results list doesn't mean much. I
know what place I got and that's the important part. e.g. my "concussed
but not last place" result in my first ever race means something to me but
will never get listed anywhere.

> I have the most fun when I know I'm within striking distance of a placing,
> when I know that if I'm having a good day, and if I ride the race using my
> brains rather than my legs, and if I just get a little lucky at the end,

I have to say I don't mind getting a good result (whatever that may be)
using
pure, brute-force, muscle-tearing, must.... keep.... pedalling.... physical
effort.
Different races are good or bad for different reasons though I think.
If I race well, tactically, sweet!
If I out-sprint someone, sweet!
If I bridge a gap and none follow, then get dropped and I'm left in no man's
land for the rest of the race... well ok, that's not so sweet :-P

> that I'll get a place. Last weekend was particularly sweet. One of my
team
> mates went up the road with a kilometre to go, and I reckoned that was the

You have team mates? In D grade? Damn.. I've gotta start hiring! :-)

> However it looks like my stint in C grade has been good for me, as now
I've
> got a placing in D grade. With luck (and a hell of a lot of training) I
> hope that I'll get a bunch more placings, and will then go to C grade
> happily, knowing that I've got a good chance of hanging on for most of the
> race.

Mmm, I wish there were more races on when I'm feeling good. Seems I
go well in one race and then there is nothing else on for a month.
If I get a place in the next D grade race I think I will ask to be put back
in C grade and see how that goes.
Yeah, just checked the calendar, next "race" is a hill climb ITT up the
1 in 20 (it's listed on www.cycle2max.com) so I've got last year's time
to beat. Not much in the way of tactics, just pain. At least this year I
might remember to warm up!

hippy

[hippy]

"Arpit" > wrote in message
...
> How long are the races typically?

Criteriums are:

C 45mins + 3
D 30mins + 3
Jun 20mins + 3
B 60mins + 3
A 60mins + 3

from:
http://www.blackburncycling.org.au/racing/roaddetail.html#07/09/03

Road races are 50k up to 250k or more depending on grade.

1:20 hillclimb time trial is ~7k in 20min if you are me, or 15min if
you are fast :-)

Steele's Creek ITT is 36k in 59:29 if you are me and 51:55 if
you are Richard England.

hippy

[hippy]

"Arpit" > wrote in message
...
> How long are the races typically?

Criteriums are:

C 45mins + 3
D 30mins + 3
Jun 20mins + 3
B 60mins + 3
A 60mins + 3

from:
http://www.blackburncycling.org.au/racing/roaddetail.html#07/09/03

Road races are 50k up to 250k or more depending on grade.

1:20 hillclimb time trial is ~7k in 20min if you are me, or 15min if
you are fast :-)

Steele's Creek ITT is 36k in 59:29 if you are me and 51:55 if
you are Richard England.

hippy

[Suzy Jackson]

"Arpit" > wrote in message
...

> How long are the races typically?

Short and fast, so you're on the verge of exploding the whole way. RBCC
usually does the following:

E Grade: 6 laps (12km) @ 26-30km/h
D Grade: 10 laps (20km) @ 32-34km/h
C Grade: 14 laps (28km) @ 34-36km/h
B Grade: 16 laps (32km) @ 36-38km/h
A Grade: 18 laps (36km) @ 38-40km/h

Crits favour sprinters.

Regards,

Suzy

[Suzy Jackson]

"Arpit" > wrote in message
...

> How long are the races typically?

Short and fast, so you're on the verge of exploding the whole way. RBCC
usually does the following:

E Grade: 6 laps (12km) @ 26-30km/h
D Grade: 10 laps (20km) @ 32-34km/h
C Grade: 14 laps (28km) @ 34-36km/h
B Grade: 16 laps (32km) @ 36-38km/h
A Grade: 18 laps (36km) @ 38-40km/h

Crits favour sprinters.

Regards,

Suzy

[Suzy Jackson]

"hippy" > wrote in message
...

> I have to say I don't mind getting a good result (whatever that may be)
> using
> pure, brute-force, muscle-tearing, must.... keep.... pedalling....
physical
> effort.
> Different races are good or bad for different reasons though I think.
> If I race well, tactically, sweet!
> If I out-sprint someone, sweet!
> If I bridge a gap and none follow, then get dropped and I'm left in no
man's
> land for the rest of the race... well ok, that's not so sweet :-P

One of the most enjoyable races I've done was a few weeks ago. We had a
club champs 7.5km ITT on the next weekend, so I figured It'd be neat to see
how fast I could go for four laps (8km). I gave it everything I had
straight from the start line, and after a lap or so a couple of people
bridged to ride with me. That break lasted fully five laps, and was amazing
fun. I usually have a go at some point through the race, simply because
I've never thought of myself as a very good sprinter. Of course, it never
works, but it's fun all the same, and I'm sure it takes some of the speed
out of the sprinters legs.

Saturday was the first time I didn't try to go off the front (when I was
feeling good). Not that I didn't do any work - I did my turns up front to
keep the pace high. This sprinting lark is a lot of fun, I must say.

> You have team mates? In D grade? Damn.. I've gotta start hiring! :-)

Hehehe. Not so much a team as a bunch of likeable reprobates who turn up
week after week, and occasionally look out for one another, except of course
when they're trying to tear your legs off. Gotta do everything possible to
keep those nasty Waratah guys out of the placings.

Regards,

Suzy

[Suzy Jackson]

"hippy" > wrote in message
...

> I have to say I don't mind getting a good result (whatever that may be)
> using
> pure, brute-force, muscle-tearing, must.... keep.... pedalling....
physical
> effort.
> Different races are good or bad for different reasons though I think.
> If I race well, tactically, sweet!
> If I out-sprint someone, sweet!
> If I bridge a gap and none follow, then get dropped and I'm left in no
man's
> land for the rest of the race... well ok, that's not so sweet :-P

One of the most enjoyable races I've done was a few weeks ago. We had a
club champs 7.5km ITT on the next weekend, so I figured It'd be neat to see
how fast I could go for four laps (8km). I gave it everything I had
straight from the start line, and after a lap or so a couple of people
bridged to ride with me. That break lasted fully five laps, and was amazing
fun. I usually have a go at some point through the race, simply because
I've never thought of myself as a very good sprinter. Of course, it never
works, but it's fun all the same, and I'm sure it takes some of the speed
out of the sprinters legs.

Saturday was the first time I didn't try to go off the front (when I was
feeling good). Not that I didn't do any work - I did my turns up front to
keep the pace high. This sprinting lark is a lot of fun, I must say.

> You have team mates? In D grade? Damn.. I've gotta start hiring! :-)

Hehehe. Not so much a team as a bunch of likeable reprobates who turn up
week after week, and occasionally look out for one another, except of course
when they're trying to tear your legs off. Gotta do everything possible to
keep those nasty Waratah guys out of the placings.

Regards,

Suzy

[hippy]

"Suzy Jackson" > wrote in message
...
> fun. I usually have a go at some point through the race, simply
because
> I've never thought of myself as a very good sprinter. Of course, it
never
> works, but it's fun all the same, and I'm sure it takes some of the
speed
> out of the sprinters legs.

Don't say "never". One of these days something will happen - you get a
burst of power, weaker field, planets aligned, etc and your break away
will be ignored. Then you will time trial home for a win. It happened to
me once and I still don't know how/why it happened.
I will usually have multiple attempts at messing with the field, even
though I'm primarily a sprinter. I often spend too much time out the
front, whether it be trying to prompt a break or chasing down
someone else's break.
In some perverse way, I like the thought of putting the other riders
under stress. I don't want to roll around a track for half an hour and
have the race decided in a sprint on the final lap (although this is the
norm). I want to split the field apart early, catch out people who are
not warmed up (usually me!), have a bit of fun with people, rather
than just do a bunch ride until the 3 lap sign comes out...
Seriously, mess with the field, not only is it fun, but one day you
will be ignored and solo away for a win :-)

> Saturday was the first time I didn't try to go off the front (when I
was
> feeling good). Not that I didn't do any work - I did my turns up
front to
> keep the pace high. This sprinting lark is a lot of fun, I must say.

If you want to have a shot at the sprint here's what I've been told and
I've tried a couple of times to varying success. Watch the front of the
field and note any strong riders in top spots - not necessarily the
front.
Also, anyone else who looks like a sprinter or looks like they are doing
it easy. Mark them! When 3 lap sign comes out or final lap or whatever
make sure you are on their wheel and make sure you are in 2nd, 3rd or
4th position. So, when the sprint starts and the strong person you are
hanging off the back of go's.. you follow, hopefully having saved a
little
bit more energy than them, giving you the speed you need to come around
them on the line.
I've tried this and it does work, but you have to pick a good wheel.
This
is the hardest part for me, that as well as not reacting quick enough to
the bunch attacking on the last lap/s. Both causing me to be swamped
on the line.

> Hehehe. Not so much a team as a bunch of likeable reprobates who turn
up
> week after week, and occasionally look out for one another, except of
course
> when they're trying to tear your legs off. Gotta do everything
possible to
> keep those nasty Waratah guys out of the placings.

Ahh, most of the races I do have a few Blackburn people in them and I'll
help them if I can unless it's an all Blackburn race in which case I'm
going for the win! :-)
I know a couple of other races better than most so I pay special
attention
to them in a race and will help if I can and receive offers of help from
them depending on the nature of the race and how they are feeling.

hippy

[hippy]

"Suzy Jackson" > wrote in message
...
> fun. I usually have a go at some point through the race, simply
because
> I've never thought of myself as a very good sprinter. Of course, it
never
> works, but it's fun all the same, and I'm sure it takes some of the
speed
> out of the sprinters legs.

Don't say "never". One of these days something will happen - you get a
burst of power, weaker field, planets aligned, etc and your break away
will be ignored. Then you will time trial home for a win. It happened to
me once and I still don't know how/why it happened.
I will usually have multiple attempts at messing with the field, even
though I'm primarily a sprinter. I often spend too much time out the
front, whether it be trying to prompt a break or chasing down
someone else's break.
In some perverse way, I like the thought of putting the other riders
under stress. I don't want to roll around a track for half an hour and
have the race decided in a sprint on the final lap (although this is the
norm). I want to split the field apart early, catch out people who are
not warmed up (usually me!), have a bit of fun with people, rather
than just do a bunch ride until the 3 lap sign comes out...
Seriously, mess with the field, not only is it fun, but one day you
will be ignored and solo away for a win :-)

> Saturday was the first time I didn't try to go off the front (when I
was
> feeling good). Not that I didn't do any work - I did my turns up
front to
> keep the pace high. This sprinting lark is a lot of fun, I must say.

If you want to have a shot at the sprint here's what I've been told and
I've tried a couple of times to varying success. Watch the front of the
field and note any strong riders in top spots - not necessarily the
front.
Also, anyone else who looks like a sprinter or looks like they are doing
it easy. Mark them! When 3 lap sign comes out or final lap or whatever
make sure you are on their wheel and make sure you are in 2nd, 3rd or
4th position. So, when the sprint starts and the strong person you are
hanging off the back of go's.. you follow, hopefully having saved a
little
bit more energy than them, giving you the speed you need to come around
them on the line.
I've tried this and it does work, but you have to pick a good wheel.
This
is the hardest part for me, that as well as not reacting quick enough to
the bunch attacking on the last lap/s. Both causing me to be swamped
on the line.

> Hehehe. Not so much a team as a bunch of likeable reprobates who turn
up
> week after week, and occasionally look out for one another, except of
course
> when they're trying to tear your legs off. Gotta do everything
possible to
> keep those nasty Waratah guys out of the placings.

Ahh, most of the races I do have a few Blackburn people in them and I'll
help them if I can unless it's an all Blackburn race in which case I'm
going for the win! :-)
I know a couple of other races better than most so I pay special
attention
to them in a race and will help if I can and receive offers of help from
them depending on the nature of the race and how they are feeling.

hippy

[amirm]

Suzy Jackson wrote:
> "Arpit" > wrote in message news:alamlv8-
> :alamlv8nko tkod3fatf19vmm9ajper1-
> ...
> > How long are the races typically?
> Short and fast, so you're on the verge of exploding the whole way. RBCC
> usually does the following:
> E Grade: 6 laps (12km) @ 26-30km/h D Grade: 10 laps (20km) @
> 32-34km/h C Grade: 14 laps (28km) @ 34-36km/h B Grade: 16 laps
> (32km) @ 36-38km/h A Grade: 18 laps (36km) @ 38-40km/h
> Crits favour sprinters.
> Regards,
> Suzy

This is a silly question, but I ask it because I have never been in a
race let alone gone for a club ride. So I don't have any yardstick to
measure myself against.

I commute everyday to work with a backpack which weighs 5-10 kg. The
trip is over 17 km on each leg. Every afternoon I have to paddle against
the head wind. I use part road and part cycle path, and have to cross
traffic lights and streets. Also I get to slow down every time I have to
pass inconsiderate pedestrians who take the entire bike path with their
dogs. Considering all these, my monthly average speed (over about
500-600 km) is usually around 26.5 kmh. I take this as my training
sessions! Now my question in regards to the race categories is: Can you
tell me how would I perform if I was in a D grade race? I appreciate all
that was said before about other real-time factors involved in a race. I
just need a yardstick!

Thanks.





--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[amirm]

Suzy Jackson wrote:
> "Arpit" > wrote in message news:alamlv8-
> :alamlv8nko tkod3fatf19vmm9ajper1-
> ...
> > How long are the races typically?
> Short and fast, so you're on the verge of exploding the whole way. RBCC
> usually does the following:
> E Grade: 6 laps (12km) @ 26-30km/h D Grade: 10 laps (20km) @
> 32-34km/h C Grade: 14 laps (28km) @ 34-36km/h B Grade: 16 laps
> (32km) @ 36-38km/h A Grade: 18 laps (36km) @ 38-40km/h
> Crits favour sprinters.
> Regards,
> Suzy

This is a silly question, but I ask it because I have never been in a
race let alone gone for a club ride. So I don't have any yardstick to
measure myself against.

I commute everyday to work with a backpack which weighs 5-10 kg. The
trip is over 17 km on each leg. Every afternoon I have to paddle against
the head wind. I use part road and part cycle path, and have to cross
traffic lights and streets. Also I get to slow down every time I have to
pass inconsiderate pedestrians who take the entire bike path with their
dogs. Considering all these, my monthly average speed (over about
500-600 km) is usually around 26.5 kmh. I take this as my training
sessions! Now my question in regards to the race categories is: Can you
tell me how would I perform if I was in a D grade race? I appreciate all
that was said before about other real-time factors involved in a race. I
just need a yardstick!

Thanks.





--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Shabby]

amirm wrote:
> This is a silly question, but I ask it because I have never been in a
> race let alone gone for a club ride. So I don't have any yardstick to
> measure myself against.
> I commute everyday to work with a backpack which weighs 5-10 kg. The
> trip is over 17 km on each leg. Every afternoon I have to paddle against
> the head wind. I use part road and part cycle path, and have to cross
> traffic lights and streets. Also I get to slow down every time I have to
> pass inconsiderate pedestrians who take the entire bike path with their
> dogs. Considering all these, my monthly average speed (over about
> 500-600 km) is usually around 26.5 kmh. I take this as my training
> sessions! Now my question in regards to the race categories is: Can you
> tell me how would I perform if I was in a D grade race? I appreciate all
> that was said before about other real-time factors involved in a race. I
> just need a yardstick!
> Thanks.



It's not a silly question. Most commuting isn't done on roads/routes
which you'd normally ride, or at times of the day you'd choose to ride.

I race C in the crits, which average around 36-38kph. I have no issues
hanging in there and am usually in the top ten in the sprints, hopefully
will be going to B in the crits this year. My average speeds for riding
to work with a crumpler are about 25kph, nd the fastest I ever have gone
is averages around 27 with a tailwind.

Stopping/starting, carrying loads, riding on bike paths, riding through
the city all make it near impossible to avergae in the 30's on a commute
unless you ignore all the road rules. On the plus side, it's good for
your bike skills and responsiveness.

Sounds like your fitness would be fine for D, but you'd need to do a few
races to learn how to stay with the bunch and win.

Regarding the previous question of why you don;t get put up automaticaly
if you win once - mathematically, there would be a lot of A graders if
everyone kept getting out up and noone left in D grade. The crit season
goes for about 5 months, with three or four crits per week. Hence, you
nede to show dominance in the grade before you get put up.



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Shabby]

amirm wrote:
> This is a silly question, but I ask it because I have never been in a
> race let alone gone for a club ride. So I don't have any yardstick to
> measure myself against.
> I commute everyday to work with a backpack which weighs 5-10 kg. The
> trip is over 17 km on each leg. Every afternoon I have to paddle against
> the head wind. I use part road and part cycle path, and have to cross
> traffic lights and streets. Also I get to slow down every time I have to
> pass inconsiderate pedestrians who take the entire bike path with their
> dogs. Considering all these, my monthly average speed (over about
> 500-600 km) is usually around 26.5 kmh. I take this as my training
> sessions! Now my question in regards to the race categories is: Can you
> tell me how would I perform if I was in a D grade race? I appreciate all
> that was said before about other real-time factors involved in a race. I
> just need a yardstick!
> Thanks.



It's not a silly question. Most commuting isn't done on roads/routes
which you'd normally ride, or at times of the day you'd choose to ride.

I race C in the crits, which average around 36-38kph. I have no issues
hanging in there and am usually in the top ten in the sprints, hopefully
will be going to B in the crits this year. My average speeds for riding
to work with a crumpler are about 25kph, nd the fastest I ever have gone
is averages around 27 with a tailwind.

Stopping/starting, carrying loads, riding on bike paths, riding through
the city all make it near impossible to avergae in the 30's on a commute
unless you ignore all the road rules. On the plus side, it's good for
your bike skills and responsiveness.

Sounds like your fitness would be fine for D, but you'd need to do a few
races to learn how to stay with the bunch and win.

Regarding the previous question of why you don;t get put up automaticaly
if you win once - mathematically, there would be a lot of A graders if
everyone kept getting out up and noone left in D grade. The crit season
goes for about 5 months, with three or four crits per week. Hence, you
nede to show dominance in the grade before you get put up.



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[hippy]

"Shabby" > wrote in message
...

(Shabby - I replied to your post on CyclingForums but the server
spat it back at me, reckons you can only post 1 message every
60 seconds.. funny coz I've only posted one message there in
24 hours! mumble grumble.. anyway I can track stand on it now.)

> I race C in the crits, which average around 36-38kph. I have no issues

I've not looked at avg. speed for my D grade races. Must do that.

> will be going to B in the crits this year. My average speeds for
riding
> to work with a crumpler are about 25kph, nd the fastest I ever have
gone
> is averages around 27 with a tailwind.

My avg. commute would be 26-27kph. My best is approx. 33kph.

> Stopping/starting, carrying loads, riding on bike paths, riding
through
> the city all make it near impossible to avergae in the 30's on a
commute
> unless you ignore all the road rules. On the plus side, it's good for
> your bike skills and responsiveness.

The 33kph was during school holidays with little traffic, all on road,
with a backpack and a good run with lights (i.e not many/any stops).
It's also slightly downhill for the 26k (uphill on the way home though).
I don't ride through the city either and probably had a tailwind. I was
on my slicked mtb too - should try again with my nice roadie.

> Sounds like your fitness would be fine for D, but you'd need to do a
few
> races to learn how to stay with the bunch and win.

Don't worry about speed or fitness. If you ride a bit you can at least
enter
a race and find out about it. If you come dead last you will know where
you stand and can try again after some training, or even more races.
Racing
makes you faster, simple as that.
I was scared in my first race and I still get butterflies (I'm still a
newbie really)
but it's damn good fun. :-) Give it a shot!

hippy

[hippy]

"Shabby" > wrote in message
...

(Shabby - I replied to your post on CyclingForums but the server
spat it back at me, reckons you can only post 1 message every
60 seconds.. funny coz I've only posted one message there in
24 hours! mumble grumble.. anyway I can track stand on it now.)

> I race C in the crits, which average around 36-38kph. I have no issues

I've not looked at avg. speed for my D grade races. Must do that.

> will be going to B in the crits this year. My average speeds for
riding
> to work with a crumpler are about 25kph, nd the fastest I ever have
gone
> is averages around 27 with a tailwind.

My avg. commute would be 26-27kph. My best is approx. 33kph.

> Stopping/starting, carrying loads, riding on bike paths, riding
through
> the city all make it near impossible to avergae in the 30's on a
commute
> unless you ignore all the road rules. On the plus side, it's good for
> your bike skills and responsiveness.

The 33kph was during school holidays with little traffic, all on road,
with a backpack and a good run with lights (i.e not many/any stops).
It's also slightly downhill for the 26k (uphill on the way home though).
I don't ride through the city either and probably had a tailwind. I was
on my slicked mtb too - should try again with my nice roadie.

> Sounds like your fitness would be fine for D, but you'd need to do a
few
> races to learn how to stay with the bunch and win.

Don't worry about speed or fitness. If you ride a bit you can at least
enter
a race and find out about it. If you come dead last you will know where
you stand and can try again after some training, or even more races.
Racing
makes you faster, simple as that.
I was scared in my first race and I still get butterflies (I'm still a
newbie really)
but it's damn good fun. :-) Give it a shot!

hippy

[rickster]

"Suzy Jackson" > wrote in message >...
> "Arpit" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > How long are the races typically?
>
> Short and fast, so you're on the verge of exploding the whole way. RBCC
> usually does the following:
>
> E Grade: 6 laps (12km) @ 26-30km/h
> D Grade: 10 laps (20km) @ 32-34km/h
> C Grade: 14 laps (28km) @ 34-36km/h
> B Grade: 16 laps (32km) @ 36-38km/h
> A Grade: 18 laps (36km) @ 38-40km/h

Just out of curiosity, does the circuit have a climb in it or is it
very exposed and technical ?

[rickster]

"Suzy Jackson" > wrote in message >...
> "Arpit" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > How long are the races typically?
>
> Short and fast, so you're on the verge of exploding the whole way. RBCC
> usually does the following:
>
> E Grade: 6 laps (12km) @ 26-30km/h
> D Grade: 10 laps (20km) @ 32-34km/h
> C Grade: 14 laps (28km) @ 34-36km/h
> B Grade: 16 laps (32km) @ 36-38km/h
> A Grade: 18 laps (36km) @ 38-40km/h

Just out of curiosity, does the circuit have a climb in it or is it
very exposed and technical ?

[Andrew Swan]

rickster wrote:
> Just out of curiosity, does the (RBCC) circuit have a climb in it or is it
> very exposed and technical ?

Please see here for a map and description:

http://www.randwickbotanycc.com/Location%20Map.htm

They're not wrong about it being windy most days! When the southerly is
in, the final straight is like riding through sand.

And the map forgets to mention a third "pimple type riser" at the NW
corner of the circuit. Nothing serious, but it does get you out of the
saddle for one more time per lap.

&roo

[Andrew Swan]

rickster wrote:
> Just out of curiosity, does the (RBCC) circuit have a climb in it or is it
> very exposed and technical ?

Please see here for a map and description:

http://www.randwickbotanycc.com/Location%20Map.htm

They're not wrong about it being windy most days! When the southerly is
in, the final straight is like riding through sand.

And the map forgets to mention a third "pimple type riser" at the NW
corner of the circuit. Nothing serious, but it does get you out of the
saddle for one more time per lap.

&roo

[Arpit]

On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 21:13:40 GMT, "Suzy Jackson" >
wrote:

>"Arpit" > wrote in message
...
>
>> How long are the races typically?
>
>Short and fast, so you're on the verge of exploding the whole way. RBCC
>usually does the following:
>
> E Grade: 6 laps (12km) @ 26-30km/h
> D Grade: 10 laps (20km) @ 32-34km/h
> C Grade: 14 laps (28km) @ 34-36km/h
> B Grade: 16 laps (32km) @ 36-38km/h
> A Grade: 18 laps (36km) @ 38-40km/h
>


Heh, I haven't got a hope :p
>Crits favour sprinters.
>
>Regards,
>
>Suzy
>

[Arpit]

On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 21:13:40 GMT, "Suzy Jackson" >
wrote:

>"Arpit" > wrote in message
...
>
>> How long are the races typically?
>
>Short and fast, so you're on the verge of exploding the whole way. RBCC
>usually does the following:
>
> E Grade: 6 laps (12km) @ 26-30km/h
> D Grade: 10 laps (20km) @ 32-34km/h
> C Grade: 14 laps (28km) @ 34-36km/h
> B Grade: 16 laps (32km) @ 36-38km/h
> A Grade: 18 laps (36km) @ 38-40km/h
>


Heh, I haven't got a hope :p
>Crits favour sprinters.
>
>Regards,
>
>Suzy
>

[Trevor S]

"hippy" > wrote in
:

> "Trevor S" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I will never understand the theory behind this ? As far as I am
>> concerned, the guy coming _last_ in C grade is _better_ then the guy
>> coming first in
> D
>> Grade therefore you should be trying to progress THROUGH the grades
>> as
> soon
>> as you can.
>
> Tell that to the guy that came last in C grade. Look at the face of
> the person that came first in D grade and that should explain why
> some people want to stay in lower grades. Moving up should be
> a goal but it can't be nice getting whipped week in week out.

No doubt but as far as I am concerned he beat the person in D, so they
can smile when the D person comes up on the podium knowing he beat 'em:)

Use the force luke... shrug.. maybe if he is getting whipped
"resoundingly" he/she should go back to D ? If I was 4th in C grade I
would have no interest in who came first in D grade or who was even in D
but I would be interested in how/where people where placing in B grade
and you can know for sure I woudl know who cam last in B, as they would
be my next target at some stage in the future ;)

> As for moving through grades as fast as possible - I don't think
> that it's such a good idea. I learn something every time I go out
> and I'm still racing D after a brief stint in C grade and lots of
> time not racing. There's lots to be learnt racing - speeding
> through grades might mean you've got fitness but you'll get
> to a point where it doesn't help because you need more than
> fitness to win.

As fast as possible, this does not mean one week to the next it might
mean 2 years or longer, depends on the person.... I can't speak for
cycle racing as until now cycling has been for exercise and rehab
(something low impact I can do when verious bones are busted and still on
the mend) that sort of thing....

> If you don't know how to hold a wheel, etc. when you get to
> the higher grades you wont get far.
>
> Also, it's better to make mistakes in the lower grades, I think,
> rather than in the grades where people are taking it quite a
> bit more seriously.

Like I said, when your ready ie as fast as possible "for you", staying in
the same grade for a decade would seem nearly pointless, unless your at
the age where the body is giving out and your on a dowwn hill spiral like
moi :) Might as well cycle for leisure, the idea of racing is to compete
and the idea of competition is to get better.... not come first
necessarily but at least compete. Maybe it's just me :)

--
Trevor S


"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
-Albert Einstein

[Trevor S]

"hippy" > wrote in
:

> "Trevor S" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I will never understand the theory behind this ? As far as I am
>> concerned, the guy coming _last_ in C grade is _better_ then the guy
>> coming first in
> D
>> Grade therefore you should be trying to progress THROUGH the grades
>> as
> soon
>> as you can.
>
> Tell that to the guy that came last in C grade. Look at the face of
> the person that came first in D grade and that should explain why
> some people want to stay in lower grades. Moving up should be
> a goal but it can't be nice getting whipped week in week out.

No doubt but as far as I am concerned he beat the person in D, so they
can smile when the D person comes up on the podium knowing he beat 'em:)

Use the force luke... shrug.. maybe if he is getting whipped
"resoundingly" he/she should go back to D ? If I was 4th in C grade I
would have no interest in who came first in D grade or who was even in D
but I would be interested in how/where people where placing in B grade
and you can know for sure I woudl know who cam last in B, as they would
be my next target at some stage in the future ;)

> As for moving through grades as fast as possible - I don't think
> that it's such a good idea. I learn something every time I go out
> and I'm still racing D after a brief stint in C grade and lots of
> time not racing. There's lots to be learnt racing - speeding
> through grades might mean you've got fitness but you'll get
> to a point where it doesn't help because you need more than
> fitness to win.

As fast as possible, this does not mean one week to the next it might
mean 2 years or longer, depends on the person.... I can't speak for
cycle racing as until now cycling has been for exercise and rehab
(something low impact I can do when verious bones are busted and still on
the mend) that sort of thing....

> If you don't know how to hold a wheel, etc. when you get to
> the higher grades you wont get far.
>
> Also, it's better to make mistakes in the lower grades, I think,
> rather than in the grades where people are taking it quite a
> bit more seriously.

Like I said, when your ready ie as fast as possible "for you", staying in
the same grade for a decade would seem nearly pointless, unless your at
the age where the body is giving out and your on a dowwn hill spiral like
moi :) Might as well cycle for leisure, the idea of racing is to compete
and the idea of competition is to get better.... not come first
necessarily but at least compete. Maybe it's just me :)

--
Trevor S


"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
-Albert Einstein

[rickster]

"Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message news:<3f5cd7fa$0$9555[snip]> All in all, I think it's one of the best racing circuits in Sydney - eight
> or nine corners, a couple of little hills, lotsa wind, a fairly wide but not
> too wide track, and a good crowd of regulars. It's a great circuit to learn
> criterium skills on.
>
> cheers,
> Jeff

Man, how hard do you have to brake post sprint ? That corner looks
real close............

[rickster]

"Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message news:<3f5cd7fa$0$9555[snip]> All in all, I think it's one of the best racing circuits in Sydney - eight
> or nine corners, a couple of little hills, lotsa wind, a fairly wide but not
> too wide track, and a good crowd of regulars. It's a great circuit to learn
> criterium skills on.
>
> cheers,
> Jeff

Man, how hard do you have to brake post sprint ? That corner looks
real close............

[hippy]

"rickster" > wrote in message
m...
> Man, how hard do you have to brake post sprint ? That corner looks
> real close............

I think it actually runs the other way?
Have a look at the distance markings.

hippy

[hippy]

"rickster" > wrote in message
m...
> Man, how hard do you have to brake post sprint ? That corner looks
> real close............

I think it actually runs the other way?
Have a look at the distance markings.

hippy

[Suzy Jackson]

"hippy" > wrote in message
...
> "rickster" > wrote in message
> m...
> > Man, how hard do you have to brake post sprint ? That corner looks
> > real close............
>
> I think it actually runs the other way?
> Have a look at the distance markings.

Riders go clockwise around the circuit, so you have an enormous 400m long
straight (typically into a howling headwind) before the finish line.
There's about 40m or so after the line to lose some speed afterwards before
the corner. It's not a big problem slowing down, given that there's usually
a good stiff wind to help.

Regards,

Suzy

[Suzy Jackson]

"hippy" > wrote in message
...
> "rickster" > wrote in message
> m...
> > Man, how hard do you have to brake post sprint ? That corner looks
> > real close............
>
> I think it actually runs the other way?
> Have a look at the distance markings.

Riders go clockwise around the circuit, so you have an enormous 400m long
straight (typically into a howling headwind) before the finish line.
There's about 40m or so after the line to lose some speed afterwards before
the corner. It's not a big problem slowing down, given that there's usually
a good stiff wind to help.

Regards,

Suzy

[Andrew Swan]

hippy wrote:
> "rickster" > wrote in message
> m...
>
>>Man, how hard do you have to brake post sprint ? That corner looks
>>real close............
>
>
> I think it actually runs the other way?
> Have a look at the distance markings.
>
> hippy
>
No, the corner is right after the S/F line (the course runs clockwise).
But its proximity doesn't seem to be a problem even for the A graders
(and certainly not for me!).

The distance markings are metres left to go to the S/F line, i.e. the
final straight is 400m long.

&roo

[Andrew Swan]

hippy wrote:
> "rickster" > wrote in message
> m...
>
>>Man, how hard do you have to brake post sprint ? That corner looks
>>real close............
>
>
> I think it actually runs the other way?
> Have a look at the distance markings.
>
> hippy
>
No, the corner is right after the S/F line (the course runs clockwise).
But its proximity doesn't seem to be a problem even for the A graders
(and certainly not for me!).

The distance markings are metres left to go to the S/F line, i.e. the
final straight is 400m long.

&roo

[Andrew Swan]

Jeff Jones wrote:
> "rickster" > wrote in message
> m...
>
>>"Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message
>
> news:<3f5cd7fa$0$9555[snip]> All in all, I think it's one of the best racing
> circuits in Sydney - eight
>
>>>or nine corners, a couple of little hills, lotsa wind, a fairly wide but
>
> not
>
>>>too wide track, and a good crowd of regulars. It's a great circuit to
>
> learn
>
>>>criterium skills on.
>>>
>>>cheers,
>>>Jeff
>>
>>Man, how hard do you have to brake post sprint ? That corner looks
>>real close............
>
>
> It's fairly close, but it's an easy corner and you can take it at full speed
> (50+ km/h) while pedalling. It's not necessary to brake at all after the
> sprint.
>
> Trap for young players: The Randwick Botany and Eastern Suburbs finish lines
> differ by about 20m (the Easts line comes first). I've seen a number of
> races where the potential winner wasn't aware of this :-)
>
> Easts race on Tuesday nights there in summer, while Randwick Botany races on
> Saturdays all year round.
>
> cheers,
> Jeff
>
>
Hi Jeff,

What grades does Easts run, what date do the "summer" races start, and
are RBCC members welcome?

TIA,

&roo

[Andrew Swan]

Jeff Jones wrote:
> "rickster" > wrote in message
> m...
>
>>"Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message
>
> news:<3f5cd7fa$0$9555[snip]> All in all, I think it's one of the best racing
> circuits in Sydney - eight
>
>>>or nine corners, a couple of little hills, lotsa wind, a fairly wide but
>
> not
>
>>>too wide track, and a good crowd of regulars. It's a great circuit to
>
> learn
>
>>>criterium skills on.
>>>
>>>cheers,
>>>Jeff
>>
>>Man, how hard do you have to brake post sprint ? That corner looks
>>real close............
>
>
> It's fairly close, but it's an easy corner and you can take it at full speed
> (50+ km/h) while pedalling. It's not necessary to brake at all after the
> sprint.
>
> Trap for young players: The Randwick Botany and Eastern Suburbs finish lines
> differ by about 20m (the Easts line comes first). I've seen a number of
> races where the potential winner wasn't aware of this :-)
>
> Easts race on Tuesday nights there in summer, while Randwick Botany races on
> Saturdays all year round.
>
> cheers,
> Jeff
>
>
Hi Jeff,

What grades does Easts run, what date do the "summer" races start, and
are RBCC members welcome?

TIA,

&roo

[Andrew Swan]

Jeff Jones wrote:
> "Andrew Swan" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Hi Jeff,
>>
>>What grades does Easts run, what date do the "summer" races start, and
>>are RBCC members welcome?
>>
>
> Easts run a 15 lap (30 km) criterium at 6pm on Tuesday nights, normally
> starting the first or second week in November. The crit is a handicap race,
> and there are three grades. C grade usually gets just over a lap headstart
> on A grade, with B grade getting 3/4 of a lap on A grade.
>
> Grade comparison: The Easts crit is comparable to "open" grades rather than
> "club" grades, meaning that if you race B grade on Saturdays, then you'd
> probably be comfortable in C grade on Tuesdays.
>
> RBCC riders are welcome. Frank Conceicao (Easts) is the big
> boss/handicapper/etc. and you can argue with him about your grading until
> the cows come home.
>
> It's probably the hardest crit of the week in Sydney and in A grade you
> often get a few pro's and NSWIS riders showing up (Matt White, Graeme Brown
> etc.).
>
> cheers,
> Jeff
>
>
Whoa. Sounds way too intense (i.e. fast!) for me. Thanks for the info.

&roo

[Andrew Swan]

Jeff Jones wrote:
> "Andrew Swan" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Hi Jeff,
>>
>>What grades does Easts run, what date do the "summer" races start, and
>>are RBCC members welcome?
>>
>
> Easts run a 15 lap (30 km) criterium at 6pm on Tuesday nights, normally
> starting the first or second week in November. The crit is a handicap race,
> and there are three grades. C grade usually gets just over a lap headstart
> on A grade, with B grade getting 3/4 of a lap on A grade.
>
> Grade comparison: The Easts crit is comparable to "open" grades rather than
> "club" grades, meaning that if you race B grade on Saturdays, then you'd
> probably be comfortable in C grade on Tuesdays.
>
> RBCC riders are welcome. Frank Conceicao (Easts) is the big
> boss/handicapper/etc. and you can argue with him about your grading until
> the cows come home.
>
> It's probably the hardest crit of the week in Sydney and in A grade you
> often get a few pro's and NSWIS riders showing up (Matt White, Graeme Brown
> etc.).
>
> cheers,
> Jeff
>
>
Whoa. Sounds way too intense (i.e. fast!) for me. Thanks for the info.

&roo

[hippy]

"Andrew Swan" > wrote in message
news:H6g7b.1370
> No, the corner is right after the S/F line (the course runs
clockwise).
>
> The distance markings are metres left to go to the S/F line, i.e. the
> final straight is 400m long.

Ahh, sorry. It looked to me like they were indicating distance
from the Start/Finish line. Obviously not :-)
40m should be no problem stopping in, especially if those
winds are as bad as everyone is saying :-)

hippy

[hippy]

"Andrew Swan" > wrote in message
news:H6g7b.1370
> No, the corner is right after the S/F line (the course runs
clockwise).
>
> The distance markings are metres left to go to the S/F line, i.e. the
> final straight is 400m long.

Ahh, sorry. It looked to me like they were indicating distance
from the Start/Finish line. Obviously not :-)
40m should be no problem stopping in, especially if those
winds are as bad as everyone is saying :-)

hippy