Bikes Running Red Lights

[Andrew Swan]

Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:

(a) never
(b) depends if there's anyone watching
(c) depends if there's any drivers watching
(d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
(e) depends if there's any cops watching
(f) depends if there's any danger to me
(g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
(h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
(might be a special case of (g) or not)
(i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)

<soapbox>
My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you ran a red
was yourself, I'd say do what you like - it's your money/health if you
get fined/injured. However, it's not just about you. Like it or not, 80%
of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the bell curve) will
show cyclists respect and consideration in direct proportion to the
regard that we (as a body) show for the road rules. You can't expect
motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane to yourself) if you
flout your obligations on the road.
</soapbox>

P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel
strongly about. Surely the inconvenience of stopping at a few lights
(and let's face it, there's usually no good reason why you can't, if
you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means we get better
treatment in general? I know we are all equal road users in the eye of
the law, but the reality is when push comes to shove, 1000kg of metal
beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the goodwill we can generate, because
if it turns into a jungle, we are the mewling baby birds on the forest
floor.

P.P.S. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars! :-)

&roo

[Andrew Swan]

Andrew Swan wrote:
> Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
> ask, do you run red lights:
>
> (a) never
> (b) depends if there's anyone watching
> (c) depends if there's any drivers watching
> (d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
> (e) depends if there's any cops watching
> (f) depends if there's any danger to me
> (g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
> (h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
> (might be a special case of (g) or not)
> (i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
> actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
> bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)
>
> <soapbox>
> My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you ran a red
> was yourself, I'd say do what you like - it's your money/health if you
> get fined/injured. However, it's not just about you. Like it or not, 80%
> of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the bell curve) will
> show cyclists respect and consideration in direct proportion to the
> regard that we (as a body) show for the road rules. You can't expect
> motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane to yourself) if you
> flout your obligations on the road.
> </soapbox>
>
> P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel
> strongly about. Surely the inconvenience of stopping at a few lights
> (and let's face it, there's usually no good reason why you can't, if
> you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means we get better
> treatment in general? I know we are all equal road users in the eye of
> the law, but the reality is when push comes to shove, 1000kg of metal
> beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the goodwill we can generate, because
> if it turns into a jungle, we are the mewling baby birds on the forest
> floor.
>
> P.P.S. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars!
> :-)
>
> &roo
>
Forgot option (j): depends if any of my mates will rag me for stopping

&roo

[Andrew Swan]

Andrew Swan wrote:
> Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
> ask, do you run red lights:
>
> (a) never
> (b) depends if there's anyone watching
> (c) depends if there's any drivers watching
> (d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
> (e) depends if there's any cops watching
> (f) depends if there's any danger to me
> (g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
> (h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
> (might be a special case of (g) or not)
> (i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
> actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
> bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)
>
> <soapbox>
> My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you ran a red
> was yourself, I'd say do what you like - it's your money/health if you
> get fined/injured. However, it's not just about you. Like it or not, 80%
> of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the bell curve) will
> show cyclists respect and consideration in direct proportion to the
> regard that we (as a body) show for the road rules. You can't expect
> motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane to yourself) if you
> flout your obligations on the road.
> </soapbox>
>
> P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel
> strongly about. Surely the inconvenience of stopping at a few lights
> (and let's face it, there's usually no good reason why you can't, if
> you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means we get better
> treatment in general? I know we are all equal road users in the eye of
> the law, but the reality is when push comes to shove, 1000kg of metal
> beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the goodwill we can generate, because
> if it turns into a jungle, we are the mewling baby birds on the forest
> floor.
>
> P.P.S. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars!
> :-)
>
> &roo
>
Forgot option (j): depends if any of my mates will rag me for stopping

&roo

[John Doe]

I never run red lights for the reasons you mentioned. I obey all traffic
rules.

Peter

[John Doe]

I never run red lights for the reasons you mentioned. I obey all traffic
rules.

Peter

[Brunswick_kate]

Andrew Swan wrote:
> Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
> ask, do you run red lights:
> ((i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
> actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
> bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)



As you mention, this isn't illegal.

I do cop to having done "rolling stop signs" on the bike trails but upon
reflection, have decided it's pretty hypocritical of me to run those and
then bitch about people on bikes ignoring the rules they don't like.
Solution: I'm giving up the sections of the cycling path where these
stop signs are every 200 m through a residential neighbourhood and
sticking to the road ways where I won't be inconvenienced by the
continuous stop and go thing.

Hope you've got room on that soapbox for 2 because I'm right
there with you.



--
Insanity has its price -- Please have exact change.

>--------------------------<
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[Brunswick_kate]

Andrew Swan wrote:
> Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
> ask, do you run red lights:
> ((i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
> actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
> bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)



As you mention, this isn't illegal.

I do cop to having done "rolling stop signs" on the bike trails but upon
reflection, have decided it's pretty hypocritical of me to run those and
then bitch about people on bikes ignoring the rules they don't like.
Solution: I'm giving up the sections of the cycling path where these
stop signs are every 200 m through a residential neighbourhood and
sticking to the road ways where I won't be inconvenienced by the
continuous stop and go thing.

Hope you've got room on that soapbox for 2 because I'm right
there with you.



--
Insanity has its price -- Please have exact change.

>--------------------------<
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http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Real LITE guy]

(i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed

ALSO

If there is no traffic in sight and I have my wits about me (not tired
or pre-occupied), I'll coast on through.

That implies paying close attention and not assuming safety.



--
>--------------------------<
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[Real LITE guy]

(i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed

ALSO

If there is no traffic in sight and I have my wits about me (not tired
or pre-occupied), I'll coast on through.

That implies paying close attention and not assuming safety.



--
>--------------------------<
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[Georgetown_Jay]

Nice Thread...

I'm sick & tired of stopping at reds on my ride just to have some idiot
on another bike behind me catch up and roll through the intersection.
Seriously - what's wrong with these people :confused: Now each of the
cars waiting at the red to go through the lights is likely a bit more
agitated with “those damn cyclists" and I’m left to contend with them
when the light turns green.

On a positive side I've found it somewhat therapeutic to then catch up
to my ignorant fellow cyclist, inform him of the purpose of a red light,
and leave him staring at my back tire....:p



--
>--------------------------<
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[Georgetown_Jay]

Nice Thread...

I'm sick & tired of stopping at reds on my ride just to have some idiot
on another bike behind me catch up and roll through the intersection.
Seriously - what's wrong with these people :confused: Now each of the
cars waiting at the red to go through the lights is likely a bit more
agitated with “those damn cyclists" and I’m left to contend with them
when the light turns green.

On a positive side I've found it somewhat therapeutic to then catch up
to my ignorant fellow cyclist, inform him of the purpose of a red light,
and leave him staring at my back tire....:p



--
>--------------------------<
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[Gary K]

(b) or more to the point, no traffic anywhere, deserted, I'll ride thru.
(h) bunch riders consider themselves as one large vehicle, much like
when a motorist is left waiting to turn in the middle, the lights go red
then he has the right to clear the intersection.

Lots of cyclist run red lights infront of lines of motorist tho. Pretty
bad. I'm with the motorists.

GK

Andrew Swan > wrote:

> Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
> ask, do you run red lights:
>
> (a) never
> (b) depends if there's anyone watching
> (c) depends if there's any drivers watching
> (d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
> (e) depends if there's any cops watching
> (f) depends if there's any danger to me
> (g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
> (h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
> (might be a special case of (g) or not)
> (i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
> actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
> bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)
>
> <soapbox>
> My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you ran a red
> was yourself, I'd say do what you like - it's your money/health if you
> get fined/injured. However, it's not just about you. Like it or not, 80%
> of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the bell curve) will
> show cyclists respect and consideration in direct proportion to the
> regard that we (as a body) show for the road rules. You can't expect
> motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane to yourself) if you
> flout your obligations on the road.
> </soapbox>
>
> P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel
> strongly about. Surely the inconvenience of stopping at a few lights
> (and let's face it, there's usually no good reason why you can't, if
> you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means we get better
> treatment in general? I know we are all equal road users in the eye of
> the law, but the reality is when push comes to shove, 1000kg of metal
> beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the goodwill we can generate, because
> if it turns into a jungle, we are the mewling baby birds on the forest
> floor.
>
> P.P.S. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars! :-)
>
> &roo

[Gary K]

(b) or more to the point, no traffic anywhere, deserted, I'll ride thru.
(h) bunch riders consider themselves as one large vehicle, much like
when a motorist is left waiting to turn in the middle, the lights go red
then he has the right to clear the intersection.

Lots of cyclist run red lights infront of lines of motorist tho. Pretty
bad. I'm with the motorists.

GK

Andrew Swan > wrote:

> Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
> ask, do you run red lights:
>
> (a) never
> (b) depends if there's anyone watching
> (c) depends if there's any drivers watching
> (d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
> (e) depends if there's any cops watching
> (f) depends if there's any danger to me
> (g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
> (h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
> (might be a special case of (g) or not)
> (i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
> actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
> bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)
>
> <soapbox>
> My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you ran a red
> was yourself, I'd say do what you like - it's your money/health if you
> get fined/injured. However, it's not just about you. Like it or not, 80%
> of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the bell curve) will
> show cyclists respect and consideration in direct proportion to the
> regard that we (as a body) show for the road rules. You can't expect
> motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane to yourself) if you
> flout your obligations on the road.
> </soapbox>
>
> P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel
> strongly about. Surely the inconvenience of stopping at a few lights
> (and let's face it, there's usually no good reason why you can't, if
> you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means we get better
> treatment in general? I know we are all equal road users in the eye of
> the law, but the reality is when push comes to shove, 1000kg of metal
> beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the goodwill we can generate, because
> if it turns into a jungle, we are the mewling baby birds on the forest
> floor.
>
> P.P.S. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars! :-)
>
> &roo

[DurangoKid]

Andrew Swan wrote:
> Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
> ask, do you run red lights:
> (a) never
> (b) depends if there's anyone watching
> (c) depends if there's any drivers watching
> (d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
> (e) depends if there's any cops watching
> (f) depends if there's any danger to me
> (g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
> (h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
> (might be a special case of
> (i) or not)
> (j) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
> actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
> bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)
> <soapbox> My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you
> ran a red was yourself, I'd say do what you like - it's your
> money/health if you get fined/injured. However, it's not just about you.
> Like it or not, 80% of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the
> bell curve) will show cyclists respect and consideration in direct
> proportion to the regard that we (as a body) show for the road rules.
> You can't expect motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane to
> yourself) if you flout your obligations on the road. </soapbox>
> P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel
> strongly about. Surely the inconvenience of stopping at a few
> lights (and let's face it, there's usually no good reason why
> you can't, if you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means
> we get better treatment in general? I know we are all equal road
> users in the eye of the law, but the reality is when push comes
> to shove, 1000kg of metal beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the
> goodwill we can generate, because if it turns into a jungle, we
> are the mewling baby birds on the forest floor.
> P.P. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars! :-)
> &roo



I live in Palo Alto, Ca, USA, a.k.a., "on the peninsula". The main
artery for bikes is Foothill Expressway. Access is limited to main
streets that cross Foothill. Thus, there are more than a few lights. I
always stop at the lights. There's too much traffic to blow off a red
light. I also refrain from making a U-turn down the intersecting street
to dodge the red light. People have been killed trying that. Most of the
intersections can sense bikes in the left turn lane. Some can't. On the
ones that can't, I treat them as a stop sign when making a left turn.
Even that can get tricky when the volume of motor traffic is up.

In general, traffic is too heavy around here to run red lights. The odds
of being caught by a cop or an oncoming car are too great. It's not
worth the exposure.

Stop signs are a slightly different case. On four way stops I roll up
to the intersections slowly so as to be able to stop if I spot
something. If not, I roll into the intersection without touching the
ground with my foot. Most of the time I'm the only one at the
intersection so, why come out of the clips? When traffic is heavy or
the intersection is blind, I always stop. On two way stops where I have
the right of way, I don't assume I'm going to get it if there are cars
present or the corners are blind.

There are a few intersections on popular routes where the local
police/sheriffs hang out on weekends to site cyclists who run stop
signs. They will site cyclists and they can be rather picky about
whether touching the foot is a stop or coming to a complete stop is a
stop or hovering in the clips for a few seconds is a stop. It's cheaper
to stop with a foot flat on the ground.

Most of the drivers around here fit uder the hump in the bell curve.
Many of the drivers are cyclists themselves. It's that three sigma prat
that keeps me honest.



--
A man that should call everything by its right name would hardly pass the streets without being knocked down as a common enemy. –Lord Halifax

>--------------------------<
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[DurangoKid]

Andrew Swan wrote:
> Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
> ask, do you run red lights:
> (a) never
> (b) depends if there's anyone watching
> (c) depends if there's any drivers watching
> (d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
> (e) depends if there's any cops watching
> (f) depends if there's any danger to me
> (g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
> (h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
> (might be a special case of
> (i) or not)
> (j) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
> actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
> bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)
> <soapbox> My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you
> ran a red was yourself, I'd say do what you like - it's your
> money/health if you get fined/injured. However, it's not just about you.
> Like it or not, 80% of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the
> bell curve) will show cyclists respect and consideration in direct
> proportion to the regard that we (as a body) show for the road rules.
> You can't expect motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane to
> yourself) if you flout your obligations on the road. </soapbox>
> P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel
> strongly about. Surely the inconvenience of stopping at a few
> lights (and let's face it, there's usually no good reason why
> you can't, if you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means
> we get better treatment in general? I know we are all equal road
> users in the eye of the law, but the reality is when push comes
> to shove, 1000kg of metal beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the
> goodwill we can generate, because if it turns into a jungle, we
> are the mewling baby birds on the forest floor.
> P.P. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars! :-)
> &roo



I live in Palo Alto, Ca, USA, a.k.a., "on the peninsula". The main
artery for bikes is Foothill Expressway. Access is limited to main
streets that cross Foothill. Thus, there are more than a few lights. I
always stop at the lights. There's too much traffic to blow off a red
light. I also refrain from making a U-turn down the intersecting street
to dodge the red light. People have been killed trying that. Most of the
intersections can sense bikes in the left turn lane. Some can't. On the
ones that can't, I treat them as a stop sign when making a left turn.
Even that can get tricky when the volume of motor traffic is up.

In general, traffic is too heavy around here to run red lights. The odds
of being caught by a cop or an oncoming car are too great. It's not
worth the exposure.

Stop signs are a slightly different case. On four way stops I roll up
to the intersections slowly so as to be able to stop if I spot
something. If not, I roll into the intersection without touching the
ground with my foot. Most of the time I'm the only one at the
intersection so, why come out of the clips? When traffic is heavy or
the intersection is blind, I always stop. On two way stops where I have
the right of way, I don't assume I'm going to get it if there are cars
present or the corners are blind.

There are a few intersections on popular routes where the local
police/sheriffs hang out on weekends to site cyclists who run stop
signs. They will site cyclists and they can be rather picky about
whether touching the foot is a stop or coming to a complete stop is a
stop or hovering in the clips for a few seconds is a stop. It's cheaper
to stop with a foot flat on the ground.

Most of the drivers around here fit uder the hump in the bell curve.
Many of the drivers are cyclists themselves. It's that three sigma prat
that keeps me honest.



--
A man that should call everything by its right name would hardly pass the streets without being knocked down as a common enemy. –Lord Halifax

>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
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[John Henderson]

"Georgetown_Jay" wrote:

> I'm sick & tired of stopping at reds on my ride just to have
> some idiot on another bike behind me catch up and roll through
> the intersection.

What's worse is stopping my bike at a red light, and having a
motorist behind me ignore it and go straight through (admittedly
there's been negligible traffic about). It's happened a few
times.

John

[John Henderson]

"Georgetown_Jay" wrote:

> I'm sick & tired of stopping at reds on my ride just to have
> some idiot on another bike behind me catch up and roll through
> the intersection.

What's worse is stopping my bike at a red light, and having a
motorist behind me ignore it and go straight through (admittedly
there's been negligible traffic about). It's happened a few
times.

John

[Andrew Lighten]

"Andrew Swan" > wrote in message
...

> Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
> ask, do you run red lights:
>
> (a) never
> (b) depends if there's anyone watching
> (c) depends if there's any drivers watching
> (d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
> (e) depends if there's any cops watching
> (f) depends if there's any danger to me
> (g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
> (h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
> (might be a special case of (g) or not)
> (i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
> actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
> bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)

Never ever ever.

(1) I want all other road users to respect me as a rightful user of the
road, and to do so, it's important that I follow the rules that they need to
abide by.

(2) I'm kinda lucky to be here today after being hit (in a car) by a drunk
running a red light late one night. Came through a crossroads (Melbournians:
corner of Springfield Rd and Blackburn Rd) and hit the front right guard of
my car, spinning me around a few times while he speared off into a power
pole. A few feet further and it would have been the driver's door that he
hit, not the guard. I was very lucky to walk away with a few cracked ribs
and a thumping headache.

(3) Accidents happen at intersections, not when you're idling along some
country lane "Famous Five" style. Life is precious, people. We gotta take
care out there.

[Andrew Lighten]

"Andrew Swan" > wrote in message
...

> Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
> ask, do you run red lights:
>
> (a) never
> (b) depends if there's anyone watching
> (c) depends if there's any drivers watching
> (d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
> (e) depends if there's any cops watching
> (f) depends if there's any danger to me
> (g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
> (h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
> (might be a special case of (g) or not)
> (i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
> actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
> bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)

Never ever ever.

(1) I want all other road users to respect me as a rightful user of the
road, and to do so, it's important that I follow the rules that they need to
abide by.

(2) I'm kinda lucky to be here today after being hit (in a car) by a drunk
running a red light late one night. Came through a crossroads (Melbournians:
corner of Springfield Rd and Blackburn Rd) and hit the front right guard of
my car, spinning me around a few times while he speared off into a power
pole. A few feet further and it would have been the driver's door that he
hit, not the guard. I was very lucky to walk away with a few cracked ribs
and a thumping headache.

(3) Accidents happen at intersections, not when you're idling along some
country lane "Famous Five" style. Life is precious, people. We gotta take
care out there.

[MikeyOz]

I have only ever run red lights, when it is dark about 5 in the morning
and there is sight nor sign of another living thing or motorised thing.
I know it is still illegal but I feel that if I obey the road rules then
I will get treated better by drivers because they are going to see I
obey road rules.

People that usually coast past me I then usually pass them again anyway,
they are just fooling themselves and one day the are going to do it, not
see something and it is going to kill/injure either themselves or
someone else.

its just not worth it and packs should stick the rules more than
anybody else.

the thing about red lights and the sensors not detecting the bike really
does give me the irks.... so what do you do wait for a car to come along
? I dont think so.

Mikey



--
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[MikeyOz]

I have only ever run red lights, when it is dark about 5 in the morning
and there is sight nor sign of another living thing or motorised thing.
I know it is still illegal but I feel that if I obey the road rules then
I will get treated better by drivers because they are going to see I
obey road rules.

People that usually coast past me I then usually pass them again anyway,
they are just fooling themselves and one day the are going to do it, not
see something and it is going to kill/injure either themselves or
someone else.

its just not worth it and packs should stick the rules more than
anybody else.

the thing about red lights and the sensors not detecting the bike really
does give me the irks.... so what do you do wait for a car to come along
? I dont think so.

Mikey



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[rickster]

Andrew Swan > wrote in message >...
> Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
> ask, do you run red lights:
>
> (a) never
> (b) depends if there's anyone watching
> (c) depends if there's any drivers watching
> (d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
> (e) depends if there's any cops watching
> (f) depends if there's any danger to me
> (g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
> (h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
> (might be a special case of (g) or not)
> (i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
> actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
> bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)
>
[snip]


I love (h). Some of the excuses you get. But in reality, it's "I'm a
hack at he back half of the bunch, and if it gets away 'cos I stop at
a red light, I'm too much of a hack to power on to catch it, and thus
I can't pretend to partake in the glory sprint at the end of the ride"

[rickster]

Andrew Swan > wrote in message >...
> Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
> ask, do you run red lights:
>
> (a) never
> (b) depends if there's anyone watching
> (c) depends if there's any drivers watching
> (d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
> (e) depends if there's any cops watching
> (f) depends if there's any danger to me
> (g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
> (h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
> (might be a special case of (g) or not)
> (i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
> actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
> bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)
>
[snip]


I love (h). Some of the excuses you get. But in reality, it's "I'm a
hack at he back half of the bunch, and if it gets away 'cos I stop at
a red light, I'm too much of a hack to power on to catch it, and thus
I can't pretend to partake in the glory sprint at the end of the ride"

[Alex]

I only run a red light when (h) or (i) apply, except when I'm making a left
turn. In which case, I also run the light if (f) and (g) apply. Not sure if
you're allowed to do this in ther states but you are only supposed to do
this in SA if the intersection is appropriately signed. I tend to treat all
of them as signed....

In the case of (i), I predict this occuring on the unavoidable intersections
that I know don't sense my bike and treat them as a give way sign when ther
are no cars to set them off.



"Andrew Swan" > wrote in message
...
> Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
> ask, do you run red lights:
>
> (a) never
> (b) depends if there's anyone watching
> (c) depends if there's any drivers watching
> (d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
> (e) depends if there's any cops watching
> (f) depends if there's any danger to me
> (g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
> (h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
> (might be a special case of (g) or not)
> (i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
> actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
> bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)
>
> <soapbox>
> My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you ran a red
> was yourself, I'd say do what you like - it's your money/health if you
> get fined/injured. However, it's not just about you. Like it or not, 80%
> of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the bell curve) will
> show cyclists respect and consideration in direct proportion to the
> regard that we (as a body) show for the road rules. You can't expect
> motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane to yourself) if you
> flout your obligations on the road.
> </soapbox>
>
> P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel
> strongly about. Surely the inconvenience of stopping at a few lights
> (and let's face it, there's usually no good reason why you can't, if
> you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means we get better
> treatment in general? I know we are all equal road users in the eye of
> the law, but the reality is when push comes to shove, 1000kg of metal
> beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the goodwill we can generate, because
> if it turns into a jungle, we are the mewling baby birds on the forest
> floor.
>
> P.P.S. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars! :-)
>
> &roo
>

[Alex]

I only run a red light when (h) or (i) apply, except when I'm making a left
turn. In which case, I also run the light if (f) and (g) apply. Not sure if
you're allowed to do this in ther states but you are only supposed to do
this in SA if the intersection is appropriately signed. I tend to treat all
of them as signed....

In the case of (i), I predict this occuring on the unavoidable intersections
that I know don't sense my bike and treat them as a give way sign when ther
are no cars to set them off.



"Andrew Swan" > wrote in message
...
> Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
> ask, do you run red lights:
>
> (a) never
> (b) depends if there's anyone watching
> (c) depends if there's any drivers watching
> (d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
> (e) depends if there's any cops watching
> (f) depends if there's any danger to me
> (g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
> (h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
> (might be a special case of (g) or not)
> (i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
> actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
> bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)
>
> <soapbox>
> My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you ran a red
> was yourself, I'd say do what you like - it's your money/health if you
> get fined/injured. However, it's not just about you. Like it or not, 80%
> of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the bell curve) will
> show cyclists respect and consideration in direct proportion to the
> regard that we (as a body) show for the road rules. You can't expect
> motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane to yourself) if you
> flout your obligations on the road.
> </soapbox>
>
> P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel
> strongly about. Surely the inconvenience of stopping at a few lights
> (and let's face it, there's usually no good reason why you can't, if
> you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means we get better
> treatment in general? I know we are all equal road users in the eye of
> the law, but the reality is when push comes to shove, 1000kg of metal
> beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the goodwill we can generate, because
> if it turns into a jungle, we are the mewling baby birds on the forest
> floor.
>
> P.P.S. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars! :-)
>
> &roo
>

[robroy]

MikeyOz wrote:
> I have only ever run red lights, when it is dark about 5 in the morning
> and there is sight nor sign of another living thing or motorised thing.
> I know it is still illegal but I feel that if I obey the road rules then
> I will get treated better by drivers because they are going to see I
> obey road rules.
> People that usually coast past me I then usually pass them again anyway,
> they are just fooling themselves and one day the are going to do it, not
> see something and it is going to kill/injure either themselves or
> someone else.
> its just not worth it and packs should stick the rules more than
> anybody else.
> the thing about red lights and the sensors not detecting the bike really
> does give me the irks.... so what do you do wait for a car to come along
> ? I dont think so.
> Mikey



Firstly Good Thread

I, like others think that we should be law abiding. However, there have
been times when I have crossed the line, pun intended, especially
waiting for green arrows ...those detectors are killers.

I agree with those other riders that say if we are wanting respect by
motorists we should be seen to be upholding the law and not flouting it
by cruising on through red lights.



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[robroy]

MikeyOz wrote:
> I have only ever run red lights, when it is dark about 5 in the morning
> and there is sight nor sign of another living thing or motorised thing.
> I know it is still illegal but I feel that if I obey the road rules then
> I will get treated better by drivers because they are going to see I
> obey road rules.
> People that usually coast past me I then usually pass them again anyway,
> they are just fooling themselves and one day the are going to do it, not
> see something and it is going to kill/injure either themselves or
> someone else.
> its just not worth it and packs should stick the rules more than
> anybody else.
> the thing about red lights and the sensors not detecting the bike really
> does give me the irks.... so what do you do wait for a car to come along
> ? I dont think so.
> Mikey



Firstly Good Thread

I, like others think that we should be law abiding. However, there have
been times when I have crossed the line, pun intended, especially
waiting for green arrows ...those detectors are killers.

I agree with those other riders that say if we are wanting respect by
motorists we should be seen to be upholding the law and not flouting it
by cruising on through red lights.



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[troyq]

Andrew Swan wrote:
> Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
> ask, do you run red lights:
> <snip>
> &roo



I know a "red light" is a "red light" but im interested to know if
people treat red lights differently in different circumstances, such as
pedestrian crossings...

Case in point, this morning on my way to work I was cruising down a
hill about to begin the few hundred metre climb up the other side and
sure enough the pedestrian lights go red just before i get there.
Normally, no problem, wait for pedestrians... however it turns out to
be school kids pressing the button while walking by with no intention
of crossing the road.

Of course I stopped, for all the reasons everyone else has mentioned
above... but I was very tempted to continue, and spray a word or several
in their direction.

So back to my point, a red light is a red light but does everyone always
stop (and remain stopped) at pedestrian lights?



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[troyq]

Andrew Swan wrote:
> Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
> ask, do you run red lights:
> <snip>
> &roo



I know a "red light" is a "red light" but im interested to know if
people treat red lights differently in different circumstances, such as
pedestrian crossings...

Case in point, this morning on my way to work I was cruising down a
hill about to begin the few hundred metre climb up the other side and
sure enough the pedestrian lights go red just before i get there.
Normally, no problem, wait for pedestrians... however it turns out to
be school kids pressing the button while walking by with no intention
of crossing the road.

Of course I stopped, for all the reasons everyone else has mentioned
above... but I was very tempted to continue, and spray a word or several
in their direction.

So back to my point, a red light is a red light but does everyone always
stop (and remain stopped) at pedestrian lights?



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Liz]

Does everyone always stop at pedestrian lights? NO! Well not car drivers
anyway.
I went for a walk the other day and came to a pedestrian only crossing on a
moderately busy road. Pushed the button, waited for the little green man to
appear, checked to see that the approaching car really was stopping, then
started to cross. Then another car came up from behind, beeped its horn,
swerved past the stopped car and continued full speed through the
intersection. Gave me quite a fright.

"troyq" > wrote in message
...
> Andrew Swan wrote:
> > Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me
to
> > ask, do you run red lights:
> > <snip>
> > &roo
>
>
>
> I know a "red light" is a "red light" but im interested to know if
> people treat red lights differently in different circumstances, such as
> pedestrian crossings...
>
> Case in point, this morning on my way to work I was cruising down a
> hill about to begin the few hundred metre climb up the other side and
> sure enough the pedestrian lights go red just before i get there.
> Normally, no problem, wait for pedestrians... however it turns out to
> be school kids pressing the button while walking by with no intention
> of crossing the road.
>
> Of course I stopped, for all the reasons everyone else has mentioned
> above... but I was very tempted to continue, and spray a word or several
> in their direction.
>
> So back to my point, a red light is a red light but does everyone always
> stop (and remain stopped) at pedestrian lights?
>
>
>
> --
> >--------------------------<
> Posted via cyclingforums.com
> http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Liz]

Does everyone always stop at pedestrian lights? NO! Well not car drivers
anyway.
I went for a walk the other day and came to a pedestrian only crossing on a
moderately busy road. Pushed the button, waited for the little green man to
appear, checked to see that the approaching car really was stopping, then
started to cross. Then another car came up from behind, beeped its horn,
swerved past the stopped car and continued full speed through the
intersection. Gave me quite a fright.

"troyq" > wrote in message
...
> Andrew Swan wrote:
> > Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me
to
> > ask, do you run red lights:
> > <snip>
> > &roo
>
>
>
> I know a "red light" is a "red light" but im interested to know if
> people treat red lights differently in different circumstances, such as
> pedestrian crossings...
>
> Case in point, this morning on my way to work I was cruising down a
> hill about to begin the few hundred metre climb up the other side and
> sure enough the pedestrian lights go red just before i get there.
> Normally, no problem, wait for pedestrians... however it turns out to
> be school kids pressing the button while walking by with no intention
> of crossing the road.
>
> Of course I stopped, for all the reasons everyone else has mentioned
> above... but I was very tempted to continue, and spray a word or several
> in their direction.
>
> So back to my point, a red light is a red light but does everyone always
> stop (and remain stopped) at pedestrian lights?
>
>
>
> --
> >--------------------------<
> Posted via cyclingforums.com
> http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Liz]

Specially when it's a 4WD that's just stopped to deliver a child at school,
and is turning into a major road.
"John Henderson" > wrote in message
...
> "Georgetown_Jay" wrote:
>
> What's worse is stopping my bike at a red light, and having a
> motorist behind me ignore it and go straight through (admittedly
> there's been negligible traffic about). It's happened a few
> times.
>
> John
>
>

[Liz]

Specially when it's a 4WD that's just stopped to deliver a child at school,
and is turning into a major road.
"John Henderson" > wrote in message
...
> "Georgetown_Jay" wrote:
>
> What's worse is stopping my bike at a red light, and having a
> motorist behind me ignore it and go straight through (admittedly
> there's been negligible traffic about). It's happened a few
> times.
>
> John
>
>

[hippy]

"troyq" > wrote in message
...
> Normally, no problem, wait for pedestrians... however it turns out to
> be school kids pressing the button while walking by with no intention
> of crossing the road.

I would roll through it. Depends if there were cars stopped there
also. I always stop if there are cars around but if not and the
intersection is clear (easier for cyclists to tell this than cars) I
would roll on through.
I generally try and set a good example on the bike because if
something happens, I was following the law and it will be the
other person's fault (hopefully). e.g. I can ride all the way to
work without lights just fine, but I will use them to 1) stop
drivers having a sook because I'm not using lights and 2)
if there is an accident, the other party will not be able to get
out of paying for it by claiming I was breaking the law.

If the streets are deserted then I'll go through. At a reduced
bike speed there's never been anything I didn't see before
entering an intersection.
I think the only time I will go through red, while cars or
people are present would be in a bunch. That's always
tricky - half the people want to stop for the light the
other half will go through - I've experience a couple of
interesting bunch splits with this confusion.

I'm also guilty of riding on footpaths.
Hell, I've even ridden a bike without a helmet! Oooh!

Before I started regular commuting I would break many
more rules though so at least I'm improving :-P

I don't think what we do really makes a difference to
drivers though. They break the law too and get just
as annoyed with other drivers breaking the law.

What about speed limits on a bike? Who here sees a
60kph sign on a nice long downhill and actually slows
to 60?
I bet a lot of the people replying to this thread claiming
they never break any law have exceeded the limit in a
40/40/60 kph zone.

Does everyone here indicate, EVERY time? What about
if taking your hand off the bars would negatively effect
your balance/steering ability and jeopardise your safety?

Actually, has everyone here read EVERY road rule that
applies to bicycles? I don't even know where to find 'em
and frankly I'm more interested in staying alive than reading
up on road laws.

Oh, another one.. what about drafting vehicles? Anyone
sat on a truck for more than 200m? (or something like
that - like I said I don't read the law books). I've seen
something about 'drafting is naughty' before...

Hmm.. that was a bit of a rant.. sorry, bad day.

hippy
who is still alive after ~15 years riding on the road and
is sure he obeys more rules than a lot of people - many
Beach Rd riders for example!

[hippy]

"troyq" > wrote in message
...
> Normally, no problem, wait for pedestrians... however it turns out to
> be school kids pressing the button while walking by with no intention
> of crossing the road.

I would roll through it. Depends if there were cars stopped there
also. I always stop if there are cars around but if not and the
intersection is clear (easier for cyclists to tell this than cars) I
would roll on through.
I generally try and set a good example on the bike because if
something happens, I was following the law and it will be the
other person's fault (hopefully). e.g. I can ride all the way to
work without lights just fine, but I will use them to 1) stop
drivers having a sook because I'm not using lights and 2)
if there is an accident, the other party will not be able to get
out of paying for it by claiming I was breaking the law.

If the streets are deserted then I'll go through. At a reduced
bike speed there's never been anything I didn't see before
entering an intersection.
I think the only time I will go through red, while cars or
people are present would be in a bunch. That's always
tricky - half the people want to stop for the light the
other half will go through - I've experience a couple of
interesting bunch splits with this confusion.

I'm also guilty of riding on footpaths.
Hell, I've even ridden a bike without a helmet! Oooh!

Before I started regular commuting I would break many
more rules though so at least I'm improving :-P

I don't think what we do really makes a difference to
drivers though. They break the law too and get just
as annoyed with other drivers breaking the law.

What about speed limits on a bike? Who here sees a
60kph sign on a nice long downhill and actually slows
to 60?
I bet a lot of the people replying to this thread claiming
they never break any law have exceeded the limit in a
40/40/60 kph zone.

Does everyone here indicate, EVERY time? What about
if taking your hand off the bars would negatively effect
your balance/steering ability and jeopardise your safety?

Actually, has everyone here read EVERY road rule that
applies to bicycles? I don't even know where to find 'em
and frankly I'm more interested in staying alive than reading
up on road laws.

Oh, another one.. what about drafting vehicles? Anyone
sat on a truck for more than 200m? (or something like
that - like I said I don't read the law books). I've seen
something about 'drafting is naughty' before...

Hmm.. that was a bit of a rant.. sorry, bad day.

hippy
who is still alive after ~15 years riding on the road and
is sure he obeys more rules than a lot of people - many
Beach Rd riders for example!

[hippy]

"Liz" > wrote in message
...
> Does everyone always stop at pedestrian lights? NO! Well not car
drivers
> anyway.
> I went for a walk the other day and came to a pedestrian only crossing
on a
> moderately busy road. Pushed the button, waited for the little green
man to
> appear, checked to see that the approaching car really was stopping,
then
> started to cross. Then another car came up from behind, beeped its
horn,
> swerved past the stopped car and continued full speed through the
> intersection. Gave me quite a fright.

Join the club.. I see drivers go through red lights almost every
cycle change at the intersection near work. Myself and my
workmates have occasionaly been in front of these d&*k
heads as they speed through. Quite different to rolling through
an empty ped crossing at 5kph.

hippy

[hippy]

"Liz" > wrote in message
...
> Does everyone always stop at pedestrian lights? NO! Well not car
drivers
> anyway.
> I went for a walk the other day and came to a pedestrian only crossing
on a
> moderately busy road. Pushed the button, waited for the little green
man to
> appear, checked to see that the approaching car really was stopping,
then
> started to cross. Then another car came up from behind, beeped its
horn,
> swerved past the stopped car and continued full speed through the
> intersection. Gave me quite a fright.

Join the club.. I see drivers go through red lights almost every
cycle change at the intersection near work. Myself and my
workmates have occasionaly been in front of these d&*k
heads as they speed through. Quite different to rolling through
an empty ped crossing at 5kph.

hippy

[Jess]

I prefer not to run red lights if I can help it. I agree that if we want
respect from drivers and the right to use the roads, we should respect
the road rules like anyone else. However, at 5am in the morning and I'm
late for training and there's no one around (especially cars), I will
run certain lights that I know take forever to change. If there's any
other cars sitting there though, I'll wait too. When riding in a bunch,
I try to persuade fellow riders to stop if we get caught (and only half
the bunch makes it through). Sure, it's a pain in the ass, especially
since you've got to haul ass to catch the bunch again, but it's for our
collective image as cyclists that we need to endure a bit of
inconvenience.
PS A mate was fined the other day for running a red light by a
plain-clothes cop and he tried to fight it and was fined more (maybe
for abusing a cop??).



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
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[Jess]

I prefer not to run red lights if I can help it. I agree that if we want
respect from drivers and the right to use the roads, we should respect
the road rules like anyone else. However, at 5am in the morning and I'm
late for training and there's no one around (especially cars), I will
run certain lights that I know take forever to change. If there's any
other cars sitting there though, I'll wait too. When riding in a bunch,
I try to persuade fellow riders to stop if we get caught (and only half
the bunch makes it through). Sure, it's a pain in the ass, especially
since you've got to haul ass to catch the bunch again, but it's for our
collective image as cyclists that we need to endure a bit of
inconvenience.
PS A mate was fined the other day for running a red light by a
plain-clothes cop and he tried to fight it and was fined more (maybe
for abusing a cop??).



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
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[John Doe]

Dont top post Liz...

: Specially when it's a 4WD that's just stopped to deliver a child at
school,
: and is turning into a major road.

Funny you should say that. I was driving the other day through school hours
and had a mother in her 4wd bohemoth tail gating me for about 10k's as I was
keep the limit at 60. The speed dropped to 40 for the school zone and the
road went to two lanes. She proceeded to floor the car up to about 70. She
had her truck full of kids and was racing to drop them to school. She
pulled up straight in front of the school.

[John Doe]

Dont top post Liz...

: Specially when it's a 4WD that's just stopped to deliver a child at
school,
: and is turning into a major road.

Funny you should say that. I was driving the other day through school hours
and had a mother in her 4wd bohemoth tail gating me for about 10k's as I was
keep the limit at 60. The speed dropped to 40 for the school zone and the
road went to two lanes. She proceeded to floor the car up to about 70. She
had her truck full of kids and was racing to drop them to school. She
pulled up straight in front of the school.

[RideToEat]

troyq wrote:
> I know a "red light" is a "red light" but im interested to know if
> people treat red lights differently in different circumstances, such as
> pedestrian crossings...



Crikey! Considering how many cyclists I see running red lights, there's
a lot of saintly people on this group! (Having said that, there's a lot
of bikers out there who aren't excited enough about biking to jump on
usenet and talk about it...) I only say this because it sh*ts me so much
when people run red lights.


As for me, I wait at pedestrian and intersectional traffic lights alike.
I'll usually press the pedestrian button if I want it to change (which
is still illegal to mount the footpath!)



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
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[RideToEat]

troyq wrote:
> I know a "red light" is a "red light" but im interested to know if
> people treat red lights differently in different circumstances, such as
> pedestrian crossings...



Crikey! Considering how many cyclists I see running red lights, there's
a lot of saintly people on this group! (Having said that, there's a lot
of bikers out there who aren't excited enough about biking to jump on
usenet and talk about it...) I only say this because it sh*ts me so much
when people run red lights.


As for me, I wait at pedestrian and intersectional traffic lights alike.
I'll usually press the pedestrian button if I want it to change (which
is still illegal to mount the footpath!)



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
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[Ritch]

Andrew Swan > wrote in message >...
> Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
> ask, do you run red lights:
>
[snip]

You're unlikely to find anyone here on usenet to admit they run
through red lights. Much more likely to find that everyone is an angel
and frowns on other people's transgressions. Since most usenet posters
can also ride faster than the transgressors, we can politely tell them
their behaviour diminishes our road user's rights in the eyes of
motorists.

Of course, we know what we _ought_ to do, but the commuters that ride
in through Pyrmont in Sydney almost exclusively blow through the
lights wherever possible. Not me tho', honest guv.

Careful though - it's hard to get sympathy from the nurses when they
find out what you did to get hit.

Ritch.

[Ritch]

Andrew Swan > wrote in message >...
> Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
> ask, do you run red lights:
>
[snip]

You're unlikely to find anyone here on usenet to admit they run
through red lights. Much more likely to find that everyone is an angel
and frowns on other people's transgressions. Since most usenet posters
can also ride faster than the transgressors, we can politely tell them
their behaviour diminishes our road user's rights in the eyes of
motorists.

Of course, we know what we _ought_ to do, but the commuters that ride
in through Pyrmont in Sydney almost exclusively blow through the
lights wherever possible. Not me tho', honest guv.

Careful though - it's hard to get sympathy from the nurses when they
find out what you did to get hit.

Ritch.

[Cody]

"Andrew Swan" > wrote in message
...
> Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
> ask, do you run red lights:

I have never run a red light in or on any vehicle, I can't bring myself to
do it.

[Cody]

"Andrew Swan" > wrote in message
...
> Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
> ask, do you run red lights:

I have never run a red light in or on any vehicle, I can't bring myself to
do it.

[Andrew Lighten]

> So what do you do in situation (i) ? We have two known sets of lights
around
> here that don't detect bikes.

Any pedestrian crossings on those intersections? Buttons you can hit?

[Andrew Lighten]

> So what do you do in situation (i) ? We have two known sets of lights
around
> here that don't detect bikes.

Any pedestrian crossings on those intersections? Buttons you can hit?

[hippy]

"Andrew Lighten" > wrote in message
...
> > So what do you do in situation (i) ? We have two known sets of
lights
> around here that don't detect bikes.
>
> Any pedestrian crossings on those intersections? Buttons you can hit?

By the time you get up onto the curb and press the button, wouldn't the
light have already changed?
Surely the light's default mode isn't "red" - someone must've activated
the crossing for it to change - so it will change back, right?
Or if it's an intersection, they cycle through so both directions get a
run - don't they?
If the traffic is _that_ infrequent that you have to go over to a ped
crossing and hit the button - surely you could safely go through?

hippy

[hippy]

"Andrew Lighten" > wrote in message
...
> > So what do you do in situation (i) ? We have two known sets of
lights
> around here that don't detect bikes.
>
> Any pedestrian crossings on those intersections? Buttons you can hit?

By the time you get up onto the curb and press the button, wouldn't the
light have already changed?
Surely the light's default mode isn't "red" - someone must've activated
the crossing for it to change - so it will change back, right?
Or if it's an intersection, they cycle through so both directions get a
run - don't they?
If the traffic is _that_ infrequent that you have to go over to a ped
crossing and hit the button - surely you could safely go through?

hippy

[Andrew Lighten]

> By the time you get up onto the curb and press the button, wouldn't the
> light have already changed?

Yeah, but the question was what you do at lights that don't have a timer and
don't get tripped by a bike.

For me it's kind of a moot point anyway. The nearest traffic light from
where I live is ~15km, and I always cycle in the other direction. :-)

[Andrew Lighten]

> By the time you get up onto the curb and press the button, wouldn't the
> light have already changed?

Yeah, but the question was what you do at lights that don't have a timer and
don't get tripped by a bike.

For me it's kind of a moot point anyway. The nearest traffic light from
where I live is ~15km, and I always cycle in the other direction. :-)

[Andrew Morris]

When would I run a red?

having been hit by a car about 6 years ago, under controlled race
conditions, the answer is :

a) Never.

As a motorist, as well as a cyclist, nothing annoys me more than seeing a
cyclist go sailing through a red light just because they can...

Most cyclists (you ask Critical Mass) want equal road usage rights, and
IMHO, equal rights to the roads, INCLUDES following the documented road
rules, of which one is stopping at a red light...


"Andrew Swan" > wrote in message
...
> Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
> ask, do you run red lights:
>
> (a) never
> (b) depends if there's anyone watching
> (c) depends if there's any drivers watching
> (d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
> (e) depends if there's any cops watching
> (f) depends if there's any danger to me
> (g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
> (h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
> (might be a special case of (g) or not)
> (i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
> actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
> bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)
>
> <soapbox>
> My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you ran a red
> was yourself, I'd say do what you like - it's your money/health if you
> get fined/injured. However, it's not just about you. Like it or not, 80%
> of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the bell curve) will
> show cyclists respect and consideration in direct proportion to the
> regard that we (as a body) show for the road rules. You can't expect
> motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane to yourself) if you
> flout your obligations on the road.
> </soapbox>
>
> P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel
> strongly about. Surely the inconvenience of stopping at a few lights
> (and let's face it, there's usually no good reason why you can't, if
> you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means we get better
> treatment in general? I know we are all equal road users in the eye of
> the law, but the reality is when push comes to shove, 1000kg of metal
> beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the goodwill we can generate, because
> if it turns into a jungle, we are the mewling baby birds on the forest
> floor.
>
> P.P.S. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars! :-)
>
> &roo
>

[Andrew Morris]

When would I run a red?

having been hit by a car about 6 years ago, under controlled race
conditions, the answer is :

a) Never.

As a motorist, as well as a cyclist, nothing annoys me more than seeing a
cyclist go sailing through a red light just because they can...

Most cyclists (you ask Critical Mass) want equal road usage rights, and
IMHO, equal rights to the roads, INCLUDES following the documented road
rules, of which one is stopping at a red light...


"Andrew Swan" > wrote in message
...
> Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
> ask, do you run red lights:
>
> (a) never
> (b) depends if there's anyone watching
> (c) depends if there's any drivers watching
> (d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
> (e) depends if there's any cops watching
> (f) depends if there's any danger to me
> (g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
> (h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
> (might be a special case of (g) or not)
> (i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
> actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
> bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)
>
> <soapbox>
> My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you ran a red
> was yourself, I'd say do what you like - it's your money/health if you
> get fined/injured. However, it's not just about you. Like it or not, 80%
> of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the bell curve) will
> show cyclists respect and consideration in direct proportion to the
> regard that we (as a body) show for the road rules. You can't expect
> motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane to yourself) if you
> flout your obligations on the road.
> </soapbox>
>
> P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel
> strongly about. Surely the inconvenience of stopping at a few lights
> (and let's face it, there's usually no good reason why you can't, if
> you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means we get better
> treatment in general? I know we are all equal road users in the eye of
> the law, but the reality is when push comes to shove, 1000kg of metal
> beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the goodwill we can generate, because
> if it turns into a jungle, we are the mewling baby birds on the forest
> floor.
>
> P.P.S. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars! :-)
>
> &roo
>

[Andrew Morris]

Probably got his license out of the most convenient Kellogg's package... ;-)
"Ray Peace" > wrote in message ...
Greetings,
That's nothing, my favourite red light moron was a couple of years ago less than 2 km from here. I was stopping behind two lanes of cars for a red pedestrian light. The idiot on my right locked up all four wheels and slid to a halt less than two metres from the car in front. He then executed a left turn in front of me and went through the red light on the footpath (!) Where did this dickhead get his licence in the first place ?
Regards,
Ray.

Liz wrote:

Does everyone always stop at pedestrian lights? NO! Well not car driversanyway.I went for a walk the other day and came to a pedestrian only crossing on amoderately busy road. Pushed the button, waited for the little green man toappear, checked to see that the approaching car really was stopping, thenstarted to cross. Then another car came up from behind, beeped its horn,swerved past the stopped car and continued full speed through theintersection. Gave me quite a fright."troyq" > wrote in w Swan wrote: > Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts meto > ask, do you run red lights: > <snip> > &rooI know a "red light" is a "red light" but im interested to know ifpeople treat red lights differently in different circumstances, such aspedestrian crossings...Case in point, this morning on my way to work I was cruising down ahill about to begin the few hundred metre climb up the other side andsure enough the pedestrian lights go red just before i get there.Normally, no problem, wait for pedestrians... however it turns out tobe school kids pressing the button while walking by with no intentionof crossing the road.Of course I stopped, for all the reasons everyone else has mentionedabove... but I was very tempted to continue, and spray a word or severalin their direction.So back to my point, a red light is a red light but does everyone alwaysstop (and remain stopped) at pedestrian lights?
----------------------------<Posted via cyclingforums.comhttp://www.cyclingforums.com

[Andrew Morris]

Probably got his license out of the most convenient Kellogg's package... ;-)
"Ray Peace" > wrote in message ...
Greetings,
That's nothing, my favourite red light moron was a couple of years ago less than 2 km from here. I was stopping behind two lanes of cars for a red pedestrian light. The idiot on my right locked up all four wheels and slid to a halt less than two metres from the car in front. He then executed a left turn in front of me and went through the red light on the footpath (!) Where did this dickhead get his licence in the first place ?
Regards,
Ray.

Liz wrote:

Does everyone always stop at pedestrian lights? NO! Well not car driversanyway.I went for a walk the other day and came to a pedestrian only crossing on amoderately busy road. Pushed the button, waited for the little green man toappear, checked to see that the approaching car really was stopping, thenstarted to cross. Then another car came up from behind, beeped its horn,swerved past the stopped car and continued full speed through theintersection. Gave me quite a fright."troyq" > wrote in w Swan wrote: > Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts meto > ask, do you run red lights: > <snip> > &rooI know a "red light" is a "red light" but im interested to know ifpeople treat red lights differently in different circumstances, such aspedestrian crossings...Case in point, this morning on my way to work I was cruising down ahill about to begin the few hundred metre climb up the other side andsure enough the pedestrian lights go red just before i get there.Normally, no problem, wait for pedestrians... however it turns out tobe school kids pressing the button while walking by with no intentionof crossing the road.Of course I stopped, for all the reasons everyone else has mentionedabove... but I was very tempted to continue, and spray a word or severalin their direction.So back to my point, a red light is a red light but does everyone alwaysstop (and remain stopped) at pedestrian lights?
----------------------------<Posted via cyclingforums.comhttp://www.cyclingforums.com

[Tim Jones]

"Andrew Morris" > wrote in message
u...
> When would I run a red?
>
> having been hit by a car about 6 years ago, under controlled race
> conditions, the answer is :
>
> a) Never.
>
> As a motorist, as well as a cyclist, nothing annoys me more than seeing a
> cyclist go sailing through a red light just because they can...
>
> Most cyclists (you ask Critical Mass) want equal road usage rights, and
> IMHO, equal rights to the roads, INCLUDES following the documented road
> rules, of which one is stopping at a red light...
>

On a slight divergence; from my one ride with critical mass, ****ing off
drivers by holding up whole major intersections during peak hour is perhaps
not the most effective way of doing it.

Tim

[Tim Jones]

"Andrew Morris" > wrote in message
u...
> When would I run a red?
>
> having been hit by a car about 6 years ago, under controlled race
> conditions, the answer is :
>
> a) Never.
>
> As a motorist, as well as a cyclist, nothing annoys me more than seeing a
> cyclist go sailing through a red light just because they can...
>
> Most cyclists (you ask Critical Mass) want equal road usage rights, and
> IMHO, equal rights to the roads, INCLUDES following the documented road
> rules, of which one is stopping at a red light...
>

On a slight divergence; from my one ride with critical mass, ****ing off
drivers by holding up whole major intersections during peak hour is perhaps
not the most effective way of doing it.

Tim

[PC]

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 12:33:08 +1000, "Tim Jones"
> wrote:

>> Not the most effective way of doing what? Cyclists having a good time
>> and gaining some confidence in on-road riding? CM is great for that..

>Not a good way of inducing motorists to look favourably upon cyclists.

Since when was that the goal? It's there to encourage onlookers to
become cyclists, not to encourage motorists to remain motorists but
become nice motorists.. As it's quite simply impossible to make
motorists less arrogant (towards each other, let alone toward
cyclists), any attempt to play nice would only be met by their usual
attitide.. Better ot ignore them altogehter..

>What I was talking about specifically was that I have no issue with the
>ride, even taking up several lanes for a few hundred cyclists to go around
>the city. The ride I went on however culminated in stopping in the middle of
>a busy intersection, whooping, someone holding their bicycle over their head
>and not moving on.

Quite normal.. And how many times have you seen cars block
intersections for several minutes while, say, honking their horns?

>> The number of queued cars blocking intersections citywide at any
>> given point of a CM ride is probably greater than the number of CM
>> riders anyway..

>That may well be, and if the ride is meant to celebrate cyclists enjoyment
>of the roads that is fine and it serves its purpose. If it is however there
>to promote equal road use for cyclists,

Since when? What on earth gave you that idea?

Actually, it's about a lot of things, everybody has their own reasons
for attending, but the bulk of the people that I know there do it for
the "having a good time in a big city" factor..

>it is just ****ing off the motorists. It is not making them see your point,
>they will just sit in their car fuming.

They'd be doing that anyway..

>It will promote equal road use to the cyclists, but this is just preaching
>to the converted.

There are also bystanders, who could well be public transport users
who might realise that bikes are faster than trams, or car
passengers/car poolers who might think about cycling instead of
mooching more rides or buying a car..

Meanwhile, once someone owns a car, it's almost impossible to coax
them out of it, as most of the costs have to be paid for (repayments,
rego, insurance etc) whether the car is used or sits in the garage..


PC

[PC]

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 12:33:08 +1000, "Tim Jones"
> wrote:

>> Not the most effective way of doing what? Cyclists having a good time
>> and gaining some confidence in on-road riding? CM is great for that..

>Not a good way of inducing motorists to look favourably upon cyclists.

Since when was that the goal? It's there to encourage onlookers to
become cyclists, not to encourage motorists to remain motorists but
become nice motorists.. As it's quite simply impossible to make
motorists less arrogant (towards each other, let alone toward
cyclists), any attempt to play nice would only be met by their usual
attitide.. Better ot ignore them altogehter..

>What I was talking about specifically was that I have no issue with the
>ride, even taking up several lanes for a few hundred cyclists to go around
>the city. The ride I went on however culminated in stopping in the middle of
>a busy intersection, whooping, someone holding their bicycle over their head
>and not moving on.

Quite normal.. And how many times have you seen cars block
intersections for several minutes while, say, honking their horns?

>> The number of queued cars blocking intersections citywide at any
>> given point of a CM ride is probably greater than the number of CM
>> riders anyway..

>That may well be, and if the ride is meant to celebrate cyclists enjoyment
>of the roads that is fine and it serves its purpose. If it is however there
>to promote equal road use for cyclists,

Since when? What on earth gave you that idea?

Actually, it's about a lot of things, everybody has their own reasons
for attending, but the bulk of the people that I know there do it for
the "having a good time in a big city" factor..

>it is just ****ing off the motorists. It is not making them see your point,
>they will just sit in their car fuming.

They'd be doing that anyway..

>It will promote equal road use to the cyclists, but this is just preaching
>to the converted.

There are also bystanders, who could well be public transport users
who might realise that bikes are faster than trams, or car
passengers/car poolers who might think about cycling instead of
mooching more rides or buying a car..

Meanwhile, once someone owns a car, it's almost impossible to coax
them out of it, as most of the costs have to be paid for (repayments,
rego, insurance etc) whether the car is used or sits in the garage..


PC

[Tim Jones]

"PC" > wrote in message
...
>
> Since when? What on earth gave you that idea?
>

In response to Andrew Morris:

"...Most cyclists (you ask Critical Mass) want equal road usage rights..."

Tim

[Tim Jones]

"PC" > wrote in message
...
>
> Since when? What on earth gave you that idea?
>

In response to Andrew Morris:

"...Most cyclists (you ask Critical Mass) want equal road usage rights..."

Tim

[Damian Harvey]

Well just to get in on the me too act. I don't stop at red lights in the
morning on my way to work at 4:30 am if I can see it's safe to roll
through them. I should be careful though as I have previously
encountered a black Supra without lights passing me at approx 100kph one
morning.

If I can see that the lights are just about to go green then I'll slow
down just to make sure I don't hit the red light runners coming through,
here in Adelaide you get a 3 second period red lights for both
directions so you can generally judge the lights prettty easily.

One intersection in particular is always red and also has one of those
handy bicyle crossing buttons, like ped buttons only facing the road, I
could use it in the mornings but usually I just wait for a clear patch
then scoot across to avoid ****ing off the drivers who have to wait just
for a bike.

I break 60kph every day going down my one small hill. But I am fat,
skinny blokes don't have to worry about this.

I wear my helmet every time I use my bike now seeing as just a few weeks
ago I gave the finger to some dickhead on a motorbike who tooted me one
afternoon when I ducked down to the shops (200m away) one afternoon.
Said dickhead was a copper who then sent me a ticket in the post.

I don't ride on the footpath as they are in worse shape than the roads.

In Thailand I drafted a taxi for a good 2 hours, that was great fun as
I'd pass him whenever he had to pick up a passenger then slip back in
after he passed me. All of the people in the back were laughing and
cheering me on. One of my fondest memories of my life. The taxi was like
a holden rodeo ute with a couple of bench seats in the back and a canopy.

I indicate to turn right if there are cars behind me then if they let me
in I also give a wave or a thumbs up.

But generally I just stay in my lane and try not to get killed. If I
happen to break the road rules so be it.
--
Cheers
Damian Harvey

This space reserved for standard disclaimer, witty quote,
plug for own business in caps and large, bad ASCII art.

[Damian Harvey]

Well just to get in on the me too act. I don't stop at red lights in the
morning on my way to work at 4:30 am if I can see it's safe to roll
through them. I should be careful though as I have previously
encountered a black Supra without lights passing me at approx 100kph one
morning.

If I can see that the lights are just about to go green then I'll slow
down just to make sure I don't hit the red light runners coming through,
here in Adelaide you get a 3 second period red lights for both
directions so you can generally judge the lights prettty easily.

One intersection in particular is always red and also has one of those
handy bicyle crossing buttons, like ped buttons only facing the road, I
could use it in the mornings but usually I just wait for a clear patch
then scoot across to avoid ****ing off the drivers who have to wait just
for a bike.

I break 60kph every day going down my one small hill. But I am fat,
skinny blokes don't have to worry about this.

I wear my helmet every time I use my bike now seeing as just a few weeks
ago I gave the finger to some dickhead on a motorbike who tooted me one
afternoon when I ducked down to the shops (200m away) one afternoon.
Said dickhead was a copper who then sent me a ticket in the post.

I don't ride on the footpath as they are in worse shape than the roads.

In Thailand I drafted a taxi for a good 2 hours, that was great fun as
I'd pass him whenever he had to pick up a passenger then slip back in
after he passed me. All of the people in the back were laughing and
cheering me on. One of my fondest memories of my life. The taxi was like
a holden rodeo ute with a couple of bench seats in the back and a canopy.

I indicate to turn right if there are cars behind me then if they let me
in I also give a wave or a thumbs up.

But generally I just stay in my lane and try not to get killed. If I
happen to break the road rules so be it.
--
Cheers
Damian Harvey

This space reserved for standard disclaimer, witty quote,
plug for own business in caps and large, bad ASCII art.

[Damian Harvey]

Well just to get in on the me too act. I don't stop at red lights in the
morning on my way to work at 4:30 am if I can see it's safe to roll
through them. I should be careful though as I have previously
encountered a black Supra without lights passing me at approx 100kph one
morning.

If I can see that the lights are just about to go green then I'll slow
down just to make sure I don't hit the red light runners coming through,
here in Adelaide you get a 3 second period red lights for both
directions so you can generally judge the lights prettty easily.

One intersection in particular is always red and also has one of those
handy bicyle crossing buttons, like ped buttons only facing the road, I
could use it in the mornings but usually I just wait for a clear patch
then scoot across to avoid ****ing off the drivers who have to wait just
for a bike.

I break 60kph every day going down my one small hill. But I am fat,
skinny blokes don't have to worry about this.

I wear my helmet every time I use my bike now seeing as just a few weeks
ago I gave the finger to some dickhead on a motorbike who tooted me one
afternoon when I ducked down to the shops (200m away) one afternoon.
Said dickhead was a copper who then sent me a ticket in the post.

I don't ride on the footpath as they are in worse shape than the roads.

In Thailand I drafted a taxi for a good 2 hours, that was great fun as
I'd pass him whenever he had to pick up a passenger then slip back in
after he passed me. All of the people in the back were laughing and
cheering me on. One of my fondest memories of my life. The taxi was like
a holden rodeo ute with a couple of bench seats in the back and a canopy.

I indicate to turn right if there are cars behind me then if they let me
in I also give a wave or a thumbs up.

But generally I just stay in my lane and try not to get killed. If I
happen to break the road rules so be it.
--
Cheers
Damian Harvey

This space reserved for standard disclaimer, witty quote,
plug for own business in caps and large, bad ASCII art.

[Damian Harvey]

Well just to get in on the me too act. I don't stop at red lights in the
morning on my way to work at 4:30 am if I can see it's safe to roll
through them. I should be careful though as I have previously
encountered a black Supra without lights passing me at approx 100kph one
morning.

If I can see that the lights are just about to go green then I'll slow
down just to make sure I don't hit the red light runners coming through,
here in Adelaide you get a 3 second period red lights for both
directions so you can generally judge the lights prettty easily.

One intersection in particular is always red and also has one of those
handy bicyle crossing buttons, like ped buttons only facing the road, I
could use it in the mornings but usually I just wait for a clear patch
then scoot across to avoid ****ing off the drivers who have to wait just
for a bike.

I break 60kph every day going down my one small hill. But I am fat,
skinny blokes don't have to worry about this.

I wear my helmet every time I use my bike now seeing as just a few weeks
ago I gave the finger to some dickhead on a motorbike who tooted me one
afternoon when I ducked down to the shops (200m away) one afternoon.
Said dickhead was a copper who then sent me a ticket in the post.

I don't ride on the footpath as they are in worse shape than the roads.

In Thailand I drafted a taxi for a good 2 hours, that was great fun as
I'd pass him whenever he had to pick up a passenger then slip back in
after he passed me. All of the people in the back were laughing and
cheering me on. One of my fondest memories of my life. The taxi was like
a holden rodeo ute with a couple of bench seats in the back and a canopy.

I indicate to turn right if there are cars behind me then if they let me
in I also give a wave or a thumbs up.

But generally I just stay in my lane and try not to get killed. If I
happen to break the road rules so be it.
--
Cheers
Damian Harvey

This space reserved for standard disclaimer, witty quote,
plug for own business in caps and large, bad ASCII art.

[Damian Harvey]

Well just to get in on the me too act. I don't stop at red lights in the
morning on my way to work at 4:30 am if I can see it's safe to roll
through them. I should be careful though as I have previously
encountered a black Supra without lights passing me at approx 100kph one
morning.

If I can see that the lights are just about to go green then I'll slow
down just to make sure I don't hit the red light runners coming through,
here in Adelaide you get a 3 second period red lights for both
directions so you can generally judge the lights prettty easily.

One intersection in particular is always red and also has one of those
handy bicyle crossing buttons, like ped buttons only facing the road, I
could use it in the mornings but usually I just wait for a clear patch
then scoot across to avoid ****ing off the drivers who have to wait just
for a bike.

I break 60kph every day going down my one small hill. But I am fat,
skinny blokes don't have to worry about this.

I wear my helmet every time I use my bike now seeing as just a few weeks
ago I gave the finger to some dickhead on a motorbike who tooted me one
afternoon when I ducked down to the shops (200m away) one afternoon.
Said dickhead was a copper who then sent me a ticket in the post.

I don't ride on the footpath as they are in worse shape than the roads.

In Thailand I drafted a taxi for a good 2 hours, that was great fun as
I'd pass him whenever he had to pick up a passenger then slip back in
after he passed me. All of the people in the back were laughing and
cheering me on. One of my fondest memories of my life. The taxi was like
a holden rodeo ute with a couple of bench seats in the back and a canopy.

I indicate to turn right if there are cars behind me then if they let me
in I also give a wave or a thumbs up.

But generally I just stay in my lane and try not to get killed. If I
happen to break the road rules so be it.
--
Cheers
Damian Harvey

This space reserved for standard disclaimer, witty quote,
plug for own business in caps and large, bad ASCII art.

[Damian Harvey]

Well just to get in on the me too act. I don't stop at red lights in the
morning on my way to work at 4:30 am if I can see it's safe to roll
through them. I should be careful though as I have previously
encountered a black Supra without lights passing me at approx 100kph one
morning.

If I can see that the lights are just about to go green then I'll slow
down just to make sure I don't hit the red light runners coming through,
here in Adelaide you get a 3 second period red lights for both
directions so you can generally judge the lights prettty easily.

One intersection in particular is always red and also has one of those
handy bicyle crossing buttons, like ped buttons only facing the road, I
could use it in the mornings but usually I just wait for a clear patch
then scoot across to avoid ****ing off the drivers who have to wait just
for a bike.

I break 60kph every day going down my one small hill. But I am fat,
skinny blokes don't have to worry about this.

I wear my helmet every time I use my bike now seeing as just a few weeks
ago I gave the finger to some dickhead on a motorbike who tooted me one
afternoon when I ducked down to the shops (200m away) one afternoon.
Said dickhead was a copper who then sent me a ticket in the post.

I don't ride on the footpath as they are in worse shape than the roads.

In Thailand I drafted a taxi for a good 2 hours, that was great fun as
I'd pass him whenever he had to pick up a passenger then slip back in
after he passed me. All of the people in the back were laughing and
cheering me on. One of my fondest memories of my life. The taxi was like
a holden rodeo ute with a couple of bench seats in the back and a canopy.

I indicate to turn right if there are cars behind me then if they let me
in I also give a wave or a thumbs up.

But generally I just stay in my lane and try not to get killed. If I
happen to break the road rules so be it.
--
Cheers
Damian Harvey

This space reserved for standard disclaimer, witty quote,
plug for own business in caps and large, bad ASCII art.

[Arpit]

>I wear my helmet every time I use my bike now seeing as just a few weeks
>ago I gave the finger to some dickhead on a motorbike who tooted me one
>afternoon when I ducked down to the shops (200m away) one afternoon.
>Said dickhead was a copper who then sent me a ticket in the post.
>

Hehhe, how did he know who you were?

If someones hooting me, im in th habit of giving them a thumbs up :)
It works on so many levels ;)

1. THey are a police guy-- i dunno wtf they'll think
2. they are honking angrily- they'll take it as me mocking them
3. they are honking in a friendly manner- they will take it like a
real thumbs up :)
>I don't ride on the footpath as they are in worse shape than the roads.
>
>In Thailand I drafted a taxi for a good 2 hours, that was great fun as
>I'd pass him whenever he had to pick up a passenger then slip back in
>after he passed me. All of the people in the back were laughing and
>cheering me on. One of my fondest memories of my life. The taxi was like
>a holden rodeo ute with a couple of bench seats in the back and a canopy.
>
>I indicate to turn right if there are cars behind me then if they let me
>in I also give a wave or a thumbs up.
>
>But generally I just stay in my lane and try not to get killed. If I
>happen to break the road rules so be it.

[Arpit]

>I wear my helmet every time I use my bike now seeing as just a few weeks
>ago I gave the finger to some dickhead on a motorbike who tooted me one
>afternoon when I ducked down to the shops (200m away) one afternoon.
>Said dickhead was a copper who then sent me a ticket in the post.
>

Hehhe, how did he know who you were?

If someones hooting me, im in th habit of giving them a thumbs up :)
It works on so many levels ;)

1. THey are a police guy-- i dunno wtf they'll think
2. they are honking angrily- they'll take it as me mocking them
3. they are honking in a friendly manner- they will take it like a
real thumbs up :)
>I don't ride on the footpath as they are in worse shape than the roads.
>
>In Thailand I drafted a taxi for a good 2 hours, that was great fun as
>I'd pass him whenever he had to pick up a passenger then slip back in
>after he passed me. All of the people in the back were laughing and
>cheering me on. One of my fondest memories of my life. The taxi was like
>a holden rodeo ute with a couple of bench seats in the back and a canopy.
>
>I indicate to turn right if there are cars behind me then if they let me
>in I also give a wave or a thumbs up.
>
>But generally I just stay in my lane and try not to get killed. If I
>happen to break the road rules so be it.

[Damian Harvey]

Arpit wrote:

>
> Hehhe, how did he know who you were?
>
> If someones hooting me, im in th habit of giving them a thumbs up :)
> It works on so many levels ;)
>
> 1. THey are a police guy-- i dunno wtf they'll think
> 2. they are honking angrily- they'll take it as me mocking them
> 3. they are honking in a friendly manner- they will take it like a
> real thumbs up :)
>

Well after I gave him the finger and mumbled "F*ck off" loud enough for
him to hear I turned around and saw who he was, I ambolled over
sheepishly and said "I guess I'm in trouble now" to which he replied in
the positive. Live and learn eh?
--
Cheers
Damian Harvey

This space reserved for standard disclaimer, witty quote,
plug for own business in caps and large, bad ASCII art.

[Damian Harvey]

Arpit wrote:

>
> Hehhe, how did he know who you were?
>
> If someones hooting me, im in th habit of giving them a thumbs up :)
> It works on so many levels ;)
>
> 1. THey are a police guy-- i dunno wtf they'll think
> 2. they are honking angrily- they'll take it as me mocking them
> 3. they are honking in a friendly manner- they will take it like a
> real thumbs up :)
>

Well after I gave him the finger and mumbled "F*ck off" loud enough for
him to hear I turned around and saw who he was, I ambolled over
sheepishly and said "I guess I'm in trouble now" to which he replied in
the positive. Live and learn eh?
--
Cheers
Damian Harvey

This space reserved for standard disclaimer, witty quote,
plug for own business in caps and large, bad ASCII art.

[K.A. Moylan]

In article >,
"Liz" > wrote:

> Does everyone always stop at pedestrian lights? NO! Well not car drivers
> anyway.
> I went for a walk the other day and came to a pedestrian only crossing on a
> moderately busy road. Pushed the button, waited for the little green man to
> appear, checked to see that the approaching car really was stopping, then
> started to cross. Then another car came up from behind, beeped its horn,
> swerved past the stopped car and continued full speed through the
> intersection. Gave me quite a fright.

I used to regularly use one traffic-light controlled pedestrian crossing
where drivers often went through the red light.
One went through while I was still on the roadway (& the little man was
definitely green) so I turned around & kicked the car as it passed me.
(I'd seen so many cars do this that I could tell who would stop & who
would not, so I wasn't surprised.)
Yes, the driver was very upset, but I never saw another car run that
pedestrian crossing again.

--
K.A. Moylan
Canberra, Australia
Ski Club: http://www.cccsc.asn.au
kamoylan at ozemail dot com dot au

[K.A. Moylan]

In article >,
"Liz" > wrote:

> Does everyone always stop at pedestrian lights? NO! Well not car drivers
> anyway.
> I went for a walk the other day and came to a pedestrian only crossing on a
> moderately busy road. Pushed the button, waited for the little green man to
> appear, checked to see that the approaching car really was stopping, then
> started to cross. Then another car came up from behind, beeped its horn,
> swerved past the stopped car and continued full speed through the
> intersection. Gave me quite a fright.

I used to regularly use one traffic-light controlled pedestrian crossing
where drivers often went through the red light.
One went through while I was still on the roadway (& the little man was
definitely green) so I turned around & kicked the car as it passed me.
(I'd seen so many cars do this that I could tell who would stop & who
would not, so I wasn't surprised.)
Yes, the driver was very upset, but I never saw another car run that
pedestrian crossing again.

--
K.A. Moylan
Canberra, Australia
Ski Club: http://www.cccsc.asn.au
kamoylan at ozemail dot com dot au

[Peter Cremasco]

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 18:30:31 +1000, Andrew Swan
> wrote:

>Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
>ask, do you run red lights:
>
>(a) never

Never - ever. I can honestly say that I follow the road rules regardless
of whether I'm riding or driving.


---
Cheers

PeterC

[Rushing headlong: out of control - and there ain't no stopping]
[and there's nothing you can do about it at all]

[Peter Cremasco]

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 18:30:31 +1000, Andrew Swan
> wrote:

>Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
>ask, do you run red lights:
>
>(a) never

Never - ever. I can honestly say that I follow the road rules regardless
of whether I'm riding or driving.


---
Cheers

PeterC

[Rushing headlong: out of control - and there ain't no stopping]
[and there's nothing you can do about it at all]

[John Doe]

: I get off the bike, walk to the footpath, press the ped light button,
: and then walk across when the little green man appears. Then I get back
: on the road and ride.
:


I also. Unless I know its a semi sort of busy road and then I just be
patient till a car comes along. No biggie. I am not in that much of a
hurry.

[John Doe]

: I get off the bike, walk to the footpath, press the ped light button,
: and then walk across when the little green man appears. Then I get back
: on the road and ride.
:


I also. Unless I know its a semi sort of busy road and then I just be
patient till a car comes along. No biggie. I am not in that much of a
hurry.