How do we change driver attitudes?

[Nicko71]

In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, honked at,
and have near misses nearly every time I ride. Sometimes you end up in a
situation where a confrontation occurs. What can we do to change the
attitudes of motorists to make them more bike friendly??

:(



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[John Doe]

"Nicko71" > wrote in message
...
: In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, honked at,
: and have near misses nearly every time I ride. Sometimes you end up in a
: situation where a confrontation occurs. What can we do to change the
: attitudes of motorists to make them more bike friendly??
:
: :(


Get more people to ride on the roads... Easier said than done.

Pete

[John Doe]

"Nicko71" > wrote in message
...
: In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, honked at,
: and have near misses nearly every time I ride. Sometimes you end up in a
: situation where a confrontation occurs. What can we do to change the
: attitudes of motorists to make them more bike friendly??
:
: :(


Get more people to ride on the roads... Easier said than done.

Pete

[Arpit]

On 10 Sep 2003 19:24:14 +0950, Nicko71
> wrote:

>In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, honked at,
>and have near misses nearly every time I ride. Sometimes you end up in a
>situation where a confrontation occurs. What can we do to change the
>attitudes of motorists to make them more bike friendly??
>
>:(


hmmm, what about, return abuse, proper car horn on your bike, spikes
on bar ends, and a detachable metal bar for confrontations? <g>

[Arpit]

On 10 Sep 2003 19:24:14 +0950, Nicko71
> wrote:

>In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, honked at,
>and have near misses nearly every time I ride. Sometimes you end up in a
>situation where a confrontation occurs. What can we do to change the
>attitudes of motorists to make them more bike friendly??
>
>:(


hmmm, what about, return abuse, proper car horn on your bike, spikes
on bar ends, and a detachable metal bar for confrontations? <g>

[Gary K]

Arpit > wrote:

> On 10 Sep 2003 19:24:14 +0950, Nicko71
> > wrote:
>
> >In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, honked at,
> >and have near misses nearly every time I ride. Sometimes you end up in a
> >situation where a confrontation occurs. What can we do to change the
> >attitudes of motorists to make them more bike friendly??
> >
> >:(
>
>
> hmmm, what about, return abuse, proper car horn on your bike, spikes
> on bar ends, and a detachable metal bar for confrontations? <g>

LOL, hows that going to make'em more "friendly"??

[Gary K]

Arpit > wrote:

> On 10 Sep 2003 19:24:14 +0950, Nicko71
> > wrote:
>
> >In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, honked at,
> >and have near misses nearly every time I ride. Sometimes you end up in a
> >situation where a confrontation occurs. What can we do to change the
> >attitudes of motorists to make them more bike friendly??
> >
> >:(
>
>
> hmmm, what about, return abuse, proper car horn on your bike, spikes
> on bar ends, and a detachable metal bar for confrontations? <g>

LOL, hows that going to make'em more "friendly"??

[Andy G]

make wider roads.
"Nicko71" > wrote in message
...
> In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, honked at,
> and have near misses nearly every time I ride. Sometimes you end up in a
> situation where a confrontation occurs. What can we do to change the
> attitudes of motorists to make them more bike friendly??
>
> :(
>
>
>
> --
> >--------------------------<
> Posted via cyclingforums.com
> http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Andy G]

make wider roads.
"Nicko71" > wrote in message
...
> In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, honked at,
> and have near misses nearly every time I ride. Sometimes you end up in a
> situation where a confrontation occurs. What can we do to change the
> attitudes of motorists to make them more bike friendly??
>
> :(
>
>
>
> --
> >--------------------------<
> Posted via cyclingforums.com
> http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Paul J]

Originally posted by Nicko71
>In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, >honked at,
>and have near misses nearly every time I ride. >Sometimes you end up in
>a situation where a confrontation >occurs. What can we do to change the
>attitudes of motorists to >make them more bike friendly??

Some areas of Brisbane seem to be worse (number of bad drivers) than
others. e.g. South side is worse than North side generally. Maybe
something to do with a disproportionate number of Sydney drivers on the
South side or something.



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[Paul J]

Originally posted by Nicko71
>In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, >honked at,
>and have near misses nearly every time I ride. >Sometimes you end up in
>a situation where a confrontation >occurs. What can we do to change the
>attitudes of motorists to >make them more bike friendly??

Some areas of Brisbane seem to be worse (number of bad drivers) than
others. e.g. South side is worse than North side generally. Maybe
something to do with a disproportionate number of Sydney drivers on the
South side or something.



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[Paul J]

The option of raising awareness and education would be a nice way to go
but always takes too long as you have to wait for a whole generation of
bad attitudes to die off. Perhaps mandatory driver re-education for
interstate people might work.

Personally I would prefer a police state on the roads. Two police cars
on each block coming down hard on anyone displaying antisocial road
behaviour. That would be nice.



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[Paul J]

The option of raising awareness and education would be a nice way to go
but always takes too long as you have to wait for a whole generation of
bad attitudes to die off. Perhaps mandatory driver re-education for
interstate people might work.

Personally I would prefer a police state on the roads. Two police cars
on each block coming down hard on anyone displaying antisocial road
behaviour. That would be nice.



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[PC]

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 03:09:39 +0800, "Andy G" >
wrote:

>make wider roads.

How on earth would that help? Wider roads (with more lanes) only
induce even more traffic.. And any sydneysider who'se looked at road
usage in Melbourne knows that wider roads (with wider lanes) turn
drivers into morons that can't drive straight or even stay within
their ample lanes, who indidentally would barely last two hours on
Sydney roads..


PC

[PC]

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 03:09:39 +0800, "Andy G" >
wrote:

>make wider roads.

How on earth would that help? Wider roads (with more lanes) only
induce even more traffic.. And any sydneysider who'se looked at road
usage in Melbourne knows that wider roads (with wider lanes) turn
drivers into morons that can't drive straight or even stay within
their ample lanes, who indidentally would barely last two hours on
Sydney roads..


PC

[John Doe]

: How on earth would that help? Wider roads (with more lanes) only
: induce even more traffic.. And any sydneysider who'se looked at road
: usage in Melbourne knows that wider roads (with wider lanes) turn
: drivers into morons that can't drive straight or even stay within
: their ample lanes, who indidentally would barely last two hours on
: Sydney roads..
:

Mate this is so true. You make the lane wider and the driver wants to
still drive in the gutter. I cannot believe how many people drive across
the unbroken lines on the roads. They must not have been very good at
colouring in when they were kids. Being a cyclist makes you a much better
driver and you notice how bad some drivers are.

[John Doe]

: How on earth would that help? Wider roads (with more lanes) only
: induce even more traffic.. And any sydneysider who'se looked at road
: usage in Melbourne knows that wider roads (with wider lanes) turn
: drivers into morons that can't drive straight or even stay within
: their ample lanes, who indidentally would barely last two hours on
: Sydney roads..
:

Mate this is so true. You make the lane wider and the driver wants to
still drive in the gutter. I cannot believe how many people drive across
the unbroken lines on the roads. They must not have been very good at
colouring in when they were kids. Being a cyclist makes you a much better
driver and you notice how bad some drivers are.

[John Doe]

Personally I think an advertising campaign may help. Saturation that is.
Not just for cycling but road rules in general. Some people dont even know
basic road rules. I would also love to have to sit a knowledge test once
say every 5 years. A lot of people would fail that one.

Pete

[John Doe]

Personally I think an advertising campaign may help. Saturation that is.
Not just for cycling but road rules in general. Some people dont even know
basic road rules. I would also love to have to sit a knowledge test once
say every 5 years. A lot of people would fail that one.

Pete

[PC]

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 23:36:01 GMT, "John Doe"
> wrote:

>Personally I think an advertising campaign may help. Saturation that is.
>Not just for cycling but road rules in general. Some people dont even know
>basic road rules. I would also love to have to sit a knowledge test once
>say every 5 years. A lot of people would fail that one.

Given how cheap it is to test motorists these days with touch screen
theoretical exams, perhaps it would be worthwhile pushing for a
re-test with every license renewal (and abolish license renewals
greater than 5 years).. Put in lots of questions about what motorists
should do when confronted with minor delays (cyclists, double parked
car, truck turning etc) and see how many refuse to wait..

Lots of licenses would be cut up there :-)


PC

[PC]

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 23:36:01 GMT, "John Doe"
> wrote:

>Personally I think an advertising campaign may help. Saturation that is.
>Not just for cycling but road rules in general. Some people dont even know
>basic road rules. I would also love to have to sit a knowledge test once
>say every 5 years. A lot of people would fail that one.

Given how cheap it is to test motorists these days with touch screen
theoretical exams, perhaps it would be worthwhile pushing for a
re-test with every license renewal (and abolish license renewals
greater than 5 years).. Put in lots of questions about what motorists
should do when confronted with minor delays (cyclists, double parked
car, truck turning etc) and see how many refuse to wait..

Lots of licenses would be cut up there :-)


PC

[John Doe]

: Lots of licenses would be cut up there :-)


You are not wrong there. I see some woeful driving with people that
obviously have no idea.

Pete

[John Doe]

: Lots of licenses would be cut up there :-)


You are not wrong there. I see some woeful driving with people that
obviously have no idea.

Pete

[troyq]

Pc wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 23:36:01 GMT, "John Doe"
> > wrote:
> >Personally I think an advertising campaign may help. Saturation that
> >is. Not just for cycling but road rules in general. Some people dont
> >even know basic road rules. I would also love to have to sit a
> >knowledge test once say every 5 years. A lot of people would fail
> >that one.
> Given how cheap it is to test motorists these days with touch screen
> theoretical exams, perhaps it would be worthwhile pushing for a re-test
> with every license renewal (and abolish license renewals greater than 5
> years).. Put in lots of questions about what motorists should do when
> confronted with minor delays (cyclists, double parked car, truck turning
> etc) and see how many refuse to wait..
> Lots of licenses would be cut up there :-)
> PC



Heh, I would love to see see this happen and honestly I cannot believe
why this can't be implemented right now! Oh wait, the government will be
up for re-election soon. They would never be so stupid.

What would also be interesting is if the testing was not only
knowledge-based (I won't say skills-based because clearly it isn't) but
some sort of psychology test became part of it. You should have to prove
that you are mentally fit for license.

Of course in this country a license is a right and not a
privilege, right?



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[troyq]

Pc wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 23:36:01 GMT, "John Doe"
> > wrote:
> >Personally I think an advertising campaign may help. Saturation that
> >is. Not just for cycling but road rules in general. Some people dont
> >even know basic road rules. I would also love to have to sit a
> >knowledge test once say every 5 years. A lot of people would fail
> >that one.
> Given how cheap it is to test motorists these days with touch screen
> theoretical exams, perhaps it would be worthwhile pushing for a re-test
> with every license renewal (and abolish license renewals greater than 5
> years).. Put in lots of questions about what motorists should do when
> confronted with minor delays (cyclists, double parked car, truck turning
> etc) and see how many refuse to wait..
> Lots of licenses would be cut up there :-)
> PC



Heh, I would love to see see this happen and honestly I cannot believe
why this can't be implemented right now! Oh wait, the government will be
up for re-election soon. They would never be so stupid.

What would also be interesting is if the testing was not only
knowledge-based (I won't say skills-based because clearly it isn't) but
some sort of psychology test became part of it. You should have to prove
that you are mentally fit for license.

Of course in this country a license is a right and not a
privilege, right?



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[troyq]

John Doe wrote:
> Personally I think an advertising campaign may help. Saturation that is.
> Not just for cycling but road rules in general. Some people dont even
> know basic road rules. I would also love to have to sit a knowledge test
> once say every 5 years. A lot of people would fail that one.
> Pete



Thats also a good idea.

I remember a few years ago the motorbike campaign - 'look left, look
right, look bike'. Surely with the number of cyclists increasing (or
so it would seem), especially at this time of year when more people
begin commuting to/from work, it would pay to do something similar
with bicycles.



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[troyq]

John Doe wrote:
> Personally I think an advertising campaign may help. Saturation that is.
> Not just for cycling but road rules in general. Some people dont even
> know basic road rules. I would also love to have to sit a knowledge test
> once say every 5 years. A lot of people would fail that one.
> Pete



Thats also a good idea.

I remember a few years ago the motorbike campaign - 'look left, look
right, look bike'. Surely with the number of cyclists increasing (or
so it would seem), especially at this time of year when more people
begin commuting to/from work, it would pay to do something similar
with bicycles.



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[Andy G]

"PC" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 03:09:39 +0800, "Andy G" >
> wrote:
>
> >make wider roads.
>
> How on earth would that help?

lane markings, only 1m wider will give that bit more room.
recognition (via law & publicity) that cyclists are legitimate and different
vehicles with their own characteristics.

also less pandering to the car lobby.
actually not building roads to encourage 'flow' but better public transport
may help.

[Andy G]

"PC" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 03:09:39 +0800, "Andy G" >
> wrote:
>
> >make wider roads.
>
> How on earth would that help?

lane markings, only 1m wider will give that bit more room.
recognition (via law & publicity) that cyclists are legitimate and different
vehicles with their own characteristics.

also less pandering to the car lobby.
actually not building roads to encourage 'flow' but better public transport
may help.

[PC]

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:41:29 +0800, "Andy G" >
wrote:

>> >make wider roads.
>>
>> How on earth would that help?
>
>lane markings, only 1m wider will give that bit more room.
>recognition (via law & publicity) that cyclists are legitimate and different
>vehicles with their own characteristics.
>
>also less pandering to the car lobby.
>actually not building roads to encourage 'flow' but better public transport
>may help.

Actual experience proves otherwise.. Wider roads do far more harm
than good..


PC

[PC]

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:41:29 +0800, "Andy G" >
wrote:

>> >make wider roads.
>>
>> How on earth would that help?
>
>lane markings, only 1m wider will give that bit more room.
>recognition (via law & publicity) that cyclists are legitimate and different
>vehicles with their own characteristics.
>
>also less pandering to the car lobby.
>actually not building roads to encourage 'flow' but better public transport
>may help.

Actual experience proves otherwise.. Wider roads do far more harm
than good..


PC

[Carlo Hamalainen]

On 10 Sep 2003, Nicko71 wrote:
> In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, honked at,
> and have near misses nearly every time I ride. Sometimes you end up in a
> situation where a confrontation occurs. What can we do to change the
> attitudes of motorists to make them more bike friendly??

Where are you riding, and at what times?

I'm lucky enough to do 99% of my riding on bikeways and quiet bikelanes
(riverside and bits of St Lucia), although I don't have the guts to ride
Sir Fred Schonell Drive in rush hour. So many people just 'swipe' past and
don't move at all.

-- Carlo

[Carlo Hamalainen]

On 10 Sep 2003, Nicko71 wrote:
> In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, honked at,
> and have near misses nearly every time I ride. Sometimes you end up in a
> situation where a confrontation occurs. What can we do to change the
> attitudes of motorists to make them more bike friendly??

Where are you riding, and at what times?

I'm lucky enough to do 99% of my riding on bikeways and quiet bikelanes
(riverside and bits of St Lucia), although I don't have the guts to ride
Sir Fred Schonell Drive in rush hour. So many people just 'swipe' past and
don't move at all.

-- Carlo

[John Doe]

: lane markings, only 1m wider will give that bit more room.
: recognition (via law & publicity) that cyclists are legitimate and
different
: vehicles with their own characteristics.
:
: also less pandering to the car lobby.
: actually not building roads to encourage 'flow' but better public
transport
: may help.

There are a few bicycle lanes around where I live that are marked with
parallel unbroken lines. However people still drive all over the cycle
lane... using it to get a better line so they can maintain higher speeds
around corners. I have seen one guy almost smash into a telegraph pole in
one spot where the cycle lane goes around on its left but the car lane
continues straight. I couldnt believe it.

Although if the road is wider then I guess we have a better chance of not
being abused because people can feel safe about going around without
crossing the centre or slowing down. The main reason I believe people get
angry is that they have to slow from 60 to 40 for 10metres. This has no
effect on their overall trip time but its the fact they have to slow down.
I have some anecdotal discussions that back this up.

Lane widening is not really feasible in the heavier urban areas where lanes
are already too skinny for cars due to space restriction. You should see
the 3 lanes of the pacific highway through the north of Sydney. Anyone
living and or riding in the area will know what I am talking about.
Especially if you add a couple of Semi's which is quite common.

Pete

[John Doe]

: lane markings, only 1m wider will give that bit more room.
: recognition (via law & publicity) that cyclists are legitimate and
different
: vehicles with their own characteristics.
:
: also less pandering to the car lobby.
: actually not building roads to encourage 'flow' but better public
transport
: may help.

There are a few bicycle lanes around where I live that are marked with
parallel unbroken lines. However people still drive all over the cycle
lane... using it to get a better line so they can maintain higher speeds
around corners. I have seen one guy almost smash into a telegraph pole in
one spot where the cycle lane goes around on its left but the car lane
continues straight. I couldnt believe it.

Although if the road is wider then I guess we have a better chance of not
being abused because people can feel safe about going around without
crossing the centre or slowing down. The main reason I believe people get
angry is that they have to slow from 60 to 40 for 10metres. This has no
effect on their overall trip time but its the fact they have to slow down.
I have some anecdotal discussions that back this up.

Lane widening is not really feasible in the heavier urban areas where lanes
are already too skinny for cars due to space restriction. You should see
the 3 lanes of the pacific highway through the north of Sydney. Anyone
living and or riding in the area will know what I am talking about.
Especially if you add a couple of Semi's which is quite common.

Pete

[Ritch]

Nicko71 > wrote in message >...
> In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, honked at,
> and have near misses nearly every time I ride. Sometimes you end up in a
> situation where a confrontation occurs. What can we do to change the
> attitudes of motorists to make them more bike friendly??
>
> :(

I recall somewhat better conditions in Brisbane. Maybe it depends
where and when you ride... The worst aspect of riding in Brisbane was
that ********* swooping bird that lives on the roundabout at the
junction of East-West Arterial road and the motorway. That little
****e just won't quit!

Ritch

[Ritch]

Nicko71 > wrote in message >...
> In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, honked at,
> and have near misses nearly every time I ride. Sometimes you end up in a
> situation where a confrontation occurs. What can we do to change the
> attitudes of motorists to make them more bike friendly??
>
> :(

I recall somewhat better conditions in Brisbane. Maybe it depends
where and when you ride... The worst aspect of riding in Brisbane was
that ********* swooping bird that lives on the roundabout at the
junction of East-West Arterial road and the motorway. That little
****e just won't quit!

Ritch

[Arpit]

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 23:14:04 +0800, (Gary K)
wrote:

>Arpit > wrote:
>
>> On 10 Sep 2003 19:24:14 +0950, Nicko71
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, honked at,
>> >and have near misses nearly every time I ride. Sometimes you end up in a
>> >situation where a confrontation occurs. What can we do to change the
>> >attitudes of motorists to make them more bike friendly??
>> >
>> >:(
>>
>>
>> hmmm, what about, return abuse, proper car horn on your bike, spikes
>> on bar ends, and a detachable metal bar for confrontations? <g>
>
>LOL, hows that going to make'em more "friendly"??

fear :p

[Arpit]

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 23:14:04 +0800, (Gary K)
wrote:

>Arpit > wrote:
>
>> On 10 Sep 2003 19:24:14 +0950, Nicko71
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, honked at,
>> >and have near misses nearly every time I ride. Sometimes you end up in a
>> >situation where a confrontation occurs. What can we do to change the
>> >attitudes of motorists to make them more bike friendly??
>> >
>> >:(
>>
>>
>> hmmm, what about, return abuse, proper car horn on your bike, spikes
>> on bar ends, and a detachable metal bar for confrontations? <g>
>
>LOL, hows that going to make'em more "friendly"??

fear :p

[Andy G]

"John Doe" > wrote in message
...
>
> : lane markings, only 1m wider will give that bit more room.
> : recognition (via law & publicity) that cyclists are legitimate and
> different
> : vehicles with their own characteristics.
> :
> : also less pandering to the car lobby.
> : actually not building roads to encourage 'flow' but better public
> transport
> : may help.
>
> There are a few bicycle lanes around where I live that are marked with
> parallel unbroken lines. However people still drive all over the cycle
> lane... using it to get a better line so they can maintain higher speeds
> around corners. I have seen one guy almost smash into a telegraph pole in
> one spot where the cycle lane goes around on its left but the car lane
> continues straight. I couldnt believe it.
>

there will always be careless/ dangerus drivers

> Although if the road is wider then I guess we have a better chance of not
> being abused because people can feel safe about going around without
> crossing the centre or slowing down.
yes...
The main reason I believe people get
> angry is that they have to slow from 60 to 40 for 10metres. This has no
> effect on their overall trip time but its the fact they have to slow down.
> I have some anecdotal discussions that back this up.

There is also the unspoken assumption that the only legitimate vehicles to
use a main road is the car...
also, you can drive a car almost on 'auto' yourself. Something that makes
the driver actually change from the 'driving zone' into 'thinking and
controlling the vehicle' is disturbing. coupled with the fact the the
'disturber,' the bicycle, is a small- puny thing, they get ammoyed. There
are fewer reactions and abuse towards semi-trailor drivers or 'dangerous
bikies' i beleive.

It is a matter of perception of what is 'legitimate' and simple road
courtesy.
95+% of drivers have respect for other users. imho it is the >5% that are
most visible.
>
> Lane widening is not really feasible in the heavier urban areas where
lanes
> are already too skinny for cars due to space restriction. You should see
> the 3 lanes of the pacific highway through the north of Sydney. Anyone
> living and or riding in the area will know what I am talking about.
> Especially if you add a couple of Semi's which is quite common.

not from sydney...
make 'em skinnier, the cars will find another way or even
RIDE A BIKE!

andy
>
> Pete
>
>

[Andy G]

"John Doe" > wrote in message
...
>
> : lane markings, only 1m wider will give that bit more room.
> : recognition (via law & publicity) that cyclists are legitimate and
> different
> : vehicles with their own characteristics.
> :
> : also less pandering to the car lobby.
> : actually not building roads to encourage 'flow' but better public
> transport
> : may help.
>
> There are a few bicycle lanes around where I live that are marked with
> parallel unbroken lines. However people still drive all over the cycle
> lane... using it to get a better line so they can maintain higher speeds
> around corners. I have seen one guy almost smash into a telegraph pole in
> one spot where the cycle lane goes around on its left but the car lane
> continues straight. I couldnt believe it.
>

there will always be careless/ dangerus drivers

> Although if the road is wider then I guess we have a better chance of not
> being abused because people can feel safe about going around without
> crossing the centre or slowing down.
yes...
The main reason I believe people get
> angry is that they have to slow from 60 to 40 for 10metres. This has no
> effect on their overall trip time but its the fact they have to slow down.
> I have some anecdotal discussions that back this up.

There is also the unspoken assumption that the only legitimate vehicles to
use a main road is the car...
also, you can drive a car almost on 'auto' yourself. Something that makes
the driver actually change from the 'driving zone' into 'thinking and
controlling the vehicle' is disturbing. coupled with the fact the the
'disturber,' the bicycle, is a small- puny thing, they get ammoyed. There
are fewer reactions and abuse towards semi-trailor drivers or 'dangerous
bikies' i beleive.

It is a matter of perception of what is 'legitimate' and simple road
courtesy.
95+% of drivers have respect for other users. imho it is the >5% that are
most visible.
>
> Lane widening is not really feasible in the heavier urban areas where
lanes
> are already too skinny for cars due to space restriction. You should see
> the 3 lanes of the pacific highway through the north of Sydney. Anyone
> living and or riding in the area will know what I am talking about.
> Especially if you add a couple of Semi's which is quite common.

not from sydney...
make 'em skinnier, the cars will find another way or even
RIDE A BIKE!

andy
>
> Pete
>
>

[Andrew Swan]

Nicko71 wrote:
> In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, honked at,
> and have near misses nearly every time I ride. Sometimes you end up in a
> situation where a confrontation occurs. What can we do to change the
> attitudes of motorists to make them more bike friendly??
>
What I'd like to know is why is Brissy so much worse than Sydney? I ride
on Sydney roads (admittedly not major arteries in peak hour) 5 or 6
times a week, and I could count on one hand the annual instances of near
misses, abuse, and honking (the prolonged irritated kind, not the
well-intentioned "I'm just passing you now" bip-bip kind). Have I just
been lucky (I know there was an egg-throwing thread a while back, still
cracks me up)?

&roo
(Not looking forward to his Brissy holiday quite so much now)

[Andrew Swan]

Nicko71 wrote:
> In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, honked at,
> and have near misses nearly every time I ride. Sometimes you end up in a
> situation where a confrontation occurs. What can we do to change the
> attitudes of motorists to make them more bike friendly??
>
What I'd like to know is why is Brissy so much worse than Sydney? I ride
on Sydney roads (admittedly not major arteries in peak hour) 5 or 6
times a week, and I could count on one hand the annual instances of near
misses, abuse, and honking (the prolonged irritated kind, not the
well-intentioned "I'm just passing you now" bip-bip kind). Have I just
been lucky (I know there was an egg-throwing thread a while back, still
cracks me up)?

&roo
(Not looking forward to his Brissy holiday quite so much now)

[Trevor S]

Nicko71 > wrote in news:3f5ef4c6_4
@news.chariot.net.au:

> In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, honked at,
> and have near misses nearly every time I ride. Sometimes you end up in a
> situation where a confrontation occurs. What can we do to change the
> attitudes of motorists to make them more bike friendly??

Lobby Government to make it more difficult to _get_ a license, ie you have
to prove you are a good driver and then prove it again every decade or so.
Only thing they wanted to know when I got mine was could I parallel park,
and did I indicate before I turned. Do they test people around cycling
traffic ? around pedestrian traffic ? around motorcycling traffic ? around
public transport ? do they test people on the highways to ensure they can
competently overtake large vehicles ? slow vehicles ? Do people know what
to do when they hit an oil patch on the corner, a patch of gravel ? What
about they have to ride a bike in traffic for two months before they are
allowed to apply for a license ? make them AWARE of other road users...
shrug...

All sounds to hard huh ? How's about we book 'em for doing 62 in a 60 zone
under the pretext of this somehow being a road safety initiave :) !! Then
we can repease a press statement saying we are doing something about road
safety !

--
Trevor S


"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
-Albert Einstein

[Trevor S]

Nicko71 > wrote in news:3f5ef4c6_4
@news.chariot.net.au:

> In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, honked at,
> and have near misses nearly every time I ride. Sometimes you end up in a
> situation where a confrontation occurs. What can we do to change the
> attitudes of motorists to make them more bike friendly??

Lobby Government to make it more difficult to _get_ a license, ie you have
to prove you are a good driver and then prove it again every decade or so.
Only thing they wanted to know when I got mine was could I parallel park,
and did I indicate before I turned. Do they test people around cycling
traffic ? around pedestrian traffic ? around motorcycling traffic ? around
public transport ? do they test people on the highways to ensure they can
competently overtake large vehicles ? slow vehicles ? Do people know what
to do when they hit an oil patch on the corner, a patch of gravel ? What
about they have to ride a bike in traffic for two months before they are
allowed to apply for a license ? make them AWARE of other road users...
shrug...

All sounds to hard huh ? How's about we book 'em for doing 62 in a 60 zone
under the pretext of this somehow being a road safety initiave :) !! Then
we can repease a press statement saying we are doing something about road
safety !

--
Trevor S


"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
-Albert Einstein

[Paul Jones]

I've done plenty of riding in Brisbane. I've had those experiences - but
never a confrontation.

If someone does abuse me - all I do in return is give a friendly wave back.
The only time I was close to being in a confrontation was when I was with
someone who gave the middle fingered salute to a motorist.

Paul

Nicko71 wrote:

> In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, honked at,
> and have near misses nearly every time I ride. Sometimes you end up in a
> situation where a confrontation occurs. What can we do to change the
> attitudes of motorists to make them more bike friendly??
>
> :(
>
> --
> >--------------------------<
> Posted via cyclingforums.com
> http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Paul Jones]

I've done plenty of riding in Brisbane. I've had those experiences - but
never a confrontation.

If someone does abuse me - all I do in return is give a friendly wave back.
The only time I was close to being in a confrontation was when I was with
someone who gave the middle fingered salute to a motorist.

Paul

Nicko71 wrote:

> In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, honked at,
> and have near misses nearly every time I ride. Sometimes you end up in a
> situation where a confrontation occurs. What can we do to change the
> attitudes of motorists to make them more bike friendly??
>
> :(
>
> --
> >--------------------------<
> Posted via cyclingforums.com
> http://www.cyclingforums.com

[DJ]

Hi fellas,

I've been reading this thread right through and found the comments very
interesting indeed about educating motorists around cycles but lets get real
eh.....

The average motorist couldn't give a **** about bicycles, motorbikes or
anything else that might happen to stray in their lane...or..delay them and
extra couple of super valuable minutes.

If they are doing only 2 kph less than they were, "ahh..i gotta get around
this f#*kwit, how dare he/she be in front of me"!!

With the attitude of today's motorist with their ever expensive cocoons they
call 'their wheels', which in fact are becoming too powerful for the average
Joe to handle properly and safely even with the options ABS's, wide rubber,
4 wheel disc brakes as standard etc etc...in fact, the more high tech the
car, the more they are abused. I mean to say, with the absolute speed limit
on the motorways of 110kph, ford , holden and all the others are busting
their arses to be the first maker with a 300kph model for the well heeled
even though they are mostly flat out doing 40kph on a good day trying to get
to work and often crawling at 15kph constantly chatting on their mobile
phone (highly illegal and worth 3 points) but do they care? no bloody way!!

They don't want to be educated in safety or otherwise and as far as they are
concerned, "if I'm not caught, then it ain't illegal", every holiday road
toll tells this story.
Then we have the Mohammeds in their turbo WRX's, Skyline GTR's
etc.......seat reclined right back till it's almost horizontal with the
massive boom box taking up the entire back seat, but hey..that's another
story!!

I know what I say sounds quite cynical but I'm on the road all the time,
everyday, in the city...in the suburbs....and in between. I drive one of the
Government buses in Sydney and have done for 15 yrs now and the dramatic
attitude change on the roads over the past 5-7 yrs in Sydney is frightening.
Yes I can now hear some say "well some of those bus drivers arn't crash hot
either" yes..I'm well aware that there are some in our buses that need their
arses kicked but generally we are very switched on and we damn well have to
be.

I'd love a dollar for every life I've saved every day!!

To see some of the idiotic things car drivers do just to get in front of a
bus is unbeleivable and downright dangerous leaving only a split second
between making it or smashing it.

I sometimes ride in the city on my treddly with a mate or two mostly on a
Sunday (if i can con a day off) and once while riding in the left lane in
Park Street , a bloke in a late model landcruiser with bullbar that could
easily send me for an appointment with St. Peter, was tailgating me what
seemed like less than a foot from my rear wheel so I stopped when I knew he
couldn't get around me due to traffic lights (oh how I love red lights
sometimes)and he came to a grinding halt..(luckily for me).....i just turned
around and stared at him with dissapproval..no words were exchanged but he
got the general idea that I was 'not happy Jan"!! and the first break he
got..he swung around into the next lane and took off.....with a funny little
middle finger in veiw ........ LOL.

So, as for what it might take to educate motorists? Who knows?

Keep hitting them in the hip pocket seems to be the only language motorists
understand.....but even that has limited effect nowadays.

Regards

DJ


"Ritch" > wrote in message
om...
> Nicko71 > wrote in message
>...
> > In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, honked at,
> > and have near misses nearly every time I ride. Sometimes you end up in a
> > situation where a confrontation occurs. What can we do to change the
> > attitudes of motorists to make them more bike friendly??
> >
> > :(
>
> I recall somewhat better conditions in Brisbane. Maybe it depends
> where and when you ride... The worst aspect of riding in Brisbane was
> that ********* swooping bird that lives on the roundabout at the
> junction of East-West Arterial road and the motorway. That little
> ****e just won't quit!
>
> Ritch

[DJ]

Hi fellas,

I've been reading this thread right through and found the comments very
interesting indeed about educating motorists around cycles but lets get real
eh.....

The average motorist couldn't give a **** about bicycles, motorbikes or
anything else that might happen to stray in their lane...or..delay them and
extra couple of super valuable minutes.

If they are doing only 2 kph less than they were, "ahh..i gotta get around
this f#*kwit, how dare he/she be in front of me"!!

With the attitude of today's motorist with their ever expensive cocoons they
call 'their wheels', which in fact are becoming too powerful for the average
Joe to handle properly and safely even with the options ABS's, wide rubber,
4 wheel disc brakes as standard etc etc...in fact, the more high tech the
car, the more they are abused. I mean to say, with the absolute speed limit
on the motorways of 110kph, ford , holden and all the others are busting
their arses to be the first maker with a 300kph model for the well heeled
even though they are mostly flat out doing 40kph on a good day trying to get
to work and often crawling at 15kph constantly chatting on their mobile
phone (highly illegal and worth 3 points) but do they care? no bloody way!!

They don't want to be educated in safety or otherwise and as far as they are
concerned, "if I'm not caught, then it ain't illegal", every holiday road
toll tells this story.
Then we have the Mohammeds in their turbo WRX's, Skyline GTR's
etc.......seat reclined right back till it's almost horizontal with the
massive boom box taking up the entire back seat, but hey..that's another
story!!

I know what I say sounds quite cynical but I'm on the road all the time,
everyday, in the city...in the suburbs....and in between. I drive one of the
Government buses in Sydney and have done for 15 yrs now and the dramatic
attitude change on the roads over the past 5-7 yrs in Sydney is frightening.
Yes I can now hear some say "well some of those bus drivers arn't crash hot
either" yes..I'm well aware that there are some in our buses that need their
arses kicked but generally we are very switched on and we damn well have to
be.

I'd love a dollar for every life I've saved every day!!

To see some of the idiotic things car drivers do just to get in front of a
bus is unbeleivable and downright dangerous leaving only a split second
between making it or smashing it.

I sometimes ride in the city on my treddly with a mate or two mostly on a
Sunday (if i can con a day off) and once while riding in the left lane in
Park Street , a bloke in a late model landcruiser with bullbar that could
easily send me for an appointment with St. Peter, was tailgating me what
seemed like less than a foot from my rear wheel so I stopped when I knew he
couldn't get around me due to traffic lights (oh how I love red lights
sometimes)and he came to a grinding halt..(luckily for me).....i just turned
around and stared at him with dissapproval..no words were exchanged but he
got the general idea that I was 'not happy Jan"!! and the first break he
got..he swung around into the next lane and took off.....with a funny little
middle finger in veiw ........ LOL.

So, as for what it might take to educate motorists? Who knows?

Keep hitting them in the hip pocket seems to be the only language motorists
understand.....but even that has limited effect nowadays.

Regards

DJ


"Ritch" > wrote in message
om...
> Nicko71 > wrote in message
>...
> > In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, honked at,
> > and have near misses nearly every time I ride. Sometimes you end up in a
> > situation where a confrontation occurs. What can we do to change the
> > attitudes of motorists to make them more bike friendly??
> >
> > :(
>
> I recall somewhat better conditions in Brisbane. Maybe it depends
> where and when you ride... The worst aspect of riding in Brisbane was
> that ********* swooping bird that lives on the roundabout at the
> junction of East-West Arterial road and the motorway. That little
> ****e just won't quit!
>
> Ritch

[Mitch Pollard]

Get off the ****ing road you dickhead. the roads are for Cars. !

got it, ? GET IT

[Mitch Pollard]

Get off the ****ing road you dickhead. the roads are for Cars. !

got it, ? GET IT

[Laurence Dodd]

"Mitch Pollard" > wrote in message
. au...
> Get off the ****ing road you dickhead. the roads are for Cars. !
>
> got it, ? GET IT
>
>

Pollard is like that couple (Phil and Amity I think) from the Block they
showed on television that were doing some stupid "follow the clues"
competition and were driving around the streets. They stopped at a red
light behind a cyclist and Amity calls out to the cyclist that they are in a
hurry, as if to say the cyclist should get out of the way before the light
goes green. I thought that was a bad thing to show on television because it
was real.

[Laurence Dodd]

"Mitch Pollard" > wrote in message
. au...
> Get off the ****ing road you dickhead. the roads are for Cars. !
>
> got it, ? GET IT
>
>

Pollard is like that couple (Phil and Amity I think) from the Block they
showed on television that were doing some stupid "follow the clues"
competition and were driving around the streets. They stopped at a red
light behind a cyclist and Amity calls out to the cyclist that they are in a
hurry, as if to say the cyclist should get out of the way before the light
goes green. I thought that was a bad thing to show on television because it
was real.

[Deep Freud Moors]

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:05:47 +1000, "Laurence Dodd"
> wrote:

>"Mitch Pollard" > wrote in message
. au...
>> Get off the ****ing road you dickhead. the roads are for Cars. !
>>
>> got it, ? GET IT
>>
>>
>
>Pollard is like that couple (Phil and Amity I think) from the Block they
>showed on television that were doing some stupid "follow the clues"
>competition and were driving around the streets. They stopped at a red
>light behind a cyclist and Amity calls out to the cyclist that they are in a
>hurry, as if to say the cyclist should get out of the way before the light
>goes green. I thought that was a bad thing to show on television because it
>was real.
>

Look at the target audience though. Yuppies with 4WD's!
---
DFM

[Deep Freud Moors]

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:05:47 +1000, "Laurence Dodd"
> wrote:

>"Mitch Pollard" > wrote in message
. au...
>> Get off the ****ing road you dickhead. the roads are for Cars. !
>>
>> got it, ? GET IT
>>
>>
>
>Pollard is like that couple (Phil and Amity I think) from the Block they
>showed on television that were doing some stupid "follow the clues"
>competition and were driving around the streets. They stopped at a red
>light behind a cyclist and Amity calls out to the cyclist that they are in a
>hurry, as if to say the cyclist should get out of the way before the light
>goes green. I thought that was a bad thing to show on television because it
>was real.
>

Look at the target audience though. Yuppies with 4WD's!
---
DFM

[hippy]

"Laurence Dodd" > wrote in message
...
> Pollard is like that couple (Phil and Amity I think) from the Block
they
> showed on television that were doing some stupid "follow the clues"
> competition and were driving around the streets. They stopped at a
red
> light behind a cyclist and Amity calls out to the cyclist that they
are in a
> hurry, as if to say the cyclist should get out of the way before the
light
> goes green. I thought that was a bad thing to show on television
because it
> was real.

I seriously cringed when I saw that... then got a bit peeved
that they showed it, imagining everyone doing that to me
on my commute.. then i realised that I get off the line quicker
than most cars bwahahahaha! :-P

hippy
- oh crap! did I just admit to seeing The Block? :-)

[hippy]

"Laurence Dodd" > wrote in message
...
> Pollard is like that couple (Phil and Amity I think) from the Block
they
> showed on television that were doing some stupid "follow the clues"
> competition and were driving around the streets. They stopped at a
red
> light behind a cyclist and Amity calls out to the cyclist that they
are in a
> hurry, as if to say the cyclist should get out of the way before the
light
> goes green. I thought that was a bad thing to show on television
because it
> was real.

I seriously cringed when I saw that... then got a bit peeved
that they showed it, imagining everyone doing that to me
on my commute.. then i realised that I get off the line quicker
than most cars bwahahahaha! :-P

hippy
- oh crap! did I just admit to seeing The Block? :-)

[rickster]

"Mitch Pollard" > wrote in message >...
> Get off the ****ing road you dickhead. the roads are for Cars. !
>
> got it, ? GET IT

OK Mitch

[rickster]

"Mitch Pollard" > wrote in message >...
> Get off the ****ing road you dickhead. the roads are for Cars. !
>
> got it, ? GET IT

OK Mitch

[John Doe]

: 95+% of drivers have respect for other users. imho it is the >5% that are
: most visible.


Too true. You are dead right there. That pesky 5%.

Pete

[John Doe]

: 95+% of drivers have respect for other users. imho it is the >5% that are
: most visible.


Too true. You are dead right there. That pesky 5%.

Pete

[Paul J]

>The average motorist couldn't give a **** about bicycles, >motorbikes
>or anything else that might happen to stray in their lane...or..delay
>them and extra couple >of super valuable minutes.

>If they are doing only 2 kph less than they were, "ahh..i gotta >get
>around this f#*kwit, how dare he/she be in front of me"!!

Agree with you. Everyone just seems to have some undying need
psychological urge to GET IN FRONT of what ever is ahead no matter how
big it is or how fast it is going.


>which in fact are becoming too powerful for the average Joe to >handle
>properly and safely even with the options ABS's, wide rubber, 4 wheel
>disc brakes as standard >etc etc...in fact, the more high tech the car,
>the more they are abused. I mean to say, with the >absolute speed limit
>on the motorways of 110kph, ford , holden and all the others are
>>busting their arses to be the first maker with a 300kph model for the
>well heeled even though they are >mostly flat out doing 40kph on a good

This the fault of the car manufacturers and their marketing couple with
the peoples obsession with individualism and competitiveness. There's is
just no control of these companies what so ever and none of what they
mass produce has any real value anyway.

>yrs now and the dramatic attitude change on the roads over the >past
>5-7 yrs in Sydney is frightening.

It's not just Sydney friend. And yes it does seem to have been in the
last 5 years or so.

>To see some of the idiotic things car drivers do just to get in >front
>of a bus is unbeleivable and downright dangerous leaving only a split
>second between >making it or smashing it.

I think this has a lot to do with Western ideology of individualism and
competition being encouraged by motor manufacturers through marketing.
Not a good a combination on the road.

>keep hitting them in the hip pocket seems to be the only >anguage
>motorists understand.....but even that has limited effect nowadays.


For that to work we would need a lot more police on the roads. It must
be an absolute certainty that they are going to get caught.



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Paul J]

>The average motorist couldn't give a **** about bicycles, >motorbikes
>or anything else that might happen to stray in their lane...or..delay
>them and extra couple >of super valuable minutes.

>If they are doing only 2 kph less than they were, "ahh..i gotta >get
>around this f#*kwit, how dare he/she be in front of me"!!

Agree with you. Everyone just seems to have some undying need
psychological urge to GET IN FRONT of what ever is ahead no matter how
big it is or how fast it is going.


>which in fact are becoming too powerful for the average Joe to >handle
>properly and safely even with the options ABS's, wide rubber, 4 wheel
>disc brakes as standard >etc etc...in fact, the more high tech the car,
>the more they are abused. I mean to say, with the >absolute speed limit
>on the motorways of 110kph, ford , holden and all the others are
>>busting their arses to be the first maker with a 300kph model for the
>well heeled even though they are >mostly flat out doing 40kph on a good

This the fault of the car manufacturers and their marketing couple with
the peoples obsession with individualism and competitiveness. There's is
just no control of these companies what so ever and none of what they
mass produce has any real value anyway.

>yrs now and the dramatic attitude change on the roads over the >past
>5-7 yrs in Sydney is frightening.

It's not just Sydney friend. And yes it does seem to have been in the
last 5 years or so.

>To see some of the idiotic things car drivers do just to get in >front
>of a bus is unbeleivable and downright dangerous leaving only a split
>second between >making it or smashing it.

I think this has a lot to do with Western ideology of individualism and
competition being encouraged by motor manufacturers through marketing.
Not a good a combination on the road.

>keep hitting them in the hip pocket seems to be the only >anguage
>motorists understand.....but even that has limited effect nowadays.


For that to work we would need a lot more police on the roads. It must
be an absolute certainty that they are going to get caught.



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[hippy]

"Andre S." > wrote in message
...
> I do things like signal left to release the car in the sidestreet I'm
going to turn into;
> when the only car behind is signalling left and hanging back , switch to
the right lane.
> Basically, try and reward drivers for their consideration.
>
> And wave enthusiatically at drivers who honk, rather than angrily look for
the recoiless rifle.
> I end up feeling better so its worth it.

I've surprised myself recently. I'm now waving at ******s.. uh i
mean honkers, rather than flipping 'em the bird and yelling all
manner of obscenities, as was my usual practise. ("hippy" my
arse!). Might save me from a confrontation if I keep it up.
Problem with people that wanna have a go.. i have to stop
if I wanna deck them.. totally not fair! Momentum is a
friend I rarely want to lose :-)

I try and minimise how much I slow cars down, e.g by indicating
a left turn so the side-street car can go (as mentioned above) or
by moving over, waving people through, etc.
It's got nothing to do with feeling intimidated by the cars, it simply
reduces exhaust emissions if I don't hold anyone up. I do it as a
pedestrian too.

Being from the country though, I think I'm a lot nicer than
city people! :-P

hippy
- drunk again... "move it along please, nothing to see here"

[hippy]

"Andre S." > wrote in message
...
> I do things like signal left to release the car in the sidestreet I'm
going to turn into;
> when the only car behind is signalling left and hanging back , switch to
the right lane.
> Basically, try and reward drivers for their consideration.
>
> And wave enthusiatically at drivers who honk, rather than angrily look for
the recoiless rifle.
> I end up feeling better so its worth it.

I've surprised myself recently. I'm now waving at ******s.. uh i
mean honkers, rather than flipping 'em the bird and yelling all
manner of obscenities, as was my usual practise. ("hippy" my
arse!). Might save me from a confrontation if I keep it up.
Problem with people that wanna have a go.. i have to stop
if I wanna deck them.. totally not fair! Momentum is a
friend I rarely want to lose :-)

I try and minimise how much I slow cars down, e.g by indicating
a left turn so the side-street car can go (as mentioned above) or
by moving over, waving people through, etc.
It's got nothing to do with feeling intimidated by the cars, it simply
reduces exhaust emissions if I don't hold anyone up. I do it as a
pedestrian too.

Being from the country though, I think I'm a lot nicer than
city people! :-P

hippy
- drunk again... "move it along please, nothing to see here"

[John Doe]

******s.. uh i
: mean honkers, rather than flipping 'em the bird and yelling all
: manner of obscenities, as was my usual practise. ("hippy" my
: arse!). Might save me from a confrontation if I keep it up.

Funny thing is. I did that once... Waved enthusastically at some rager and
he took offence as I guess he sensed the sarcasm. He wanted to go me. Now
I am a big ugly bloke but I have seen some crazy things people are capable
of in my time due to a previous line of work. You can never be too sure how
crazy someone is and what sort of a life they have led. Fighting is really
a last last last resort to anything (someone forgot to tell George). I have
lost all my youthful hot headedness. Its just not worth it. My life is too
pleasant to worry about risking it for something stupid.

I actually prefer people that verbally (or honking) abuse me than people
that dont see me. If someone is honking me then I guess they have seen me.
Some of the driving I witness by people have such little idea that it amazes
me.

: I try and minimise how much I slow cars down, e.g by indicating
: a left turn so the side-street car can go (as mentioned above) or
: by moving over, waving people through, etc.
: It's got nothing to do with feeling intimidated by the cars, it simply
: reduces exhaust emissions if I don't hold anyone up. I do it as a
: pedestrian too.

I too. I will not delay traffic if its safe to do so. Fortunately on my
commuting route its not really that much of an issue.

:
: Being from the country though, I think I'm a lot nicer than
: city people! :-P

Maybe you are right there.

[John Doe]

******s.. uh i
: mean honkers, rather than flipping 'em the bird and yelling all
: manner of obscenities, as was my usual practise. ("hippy" my
: arse!). Might save me from a confrontation if I keep it up.

Funny thing is. I did that once... Waved enthusastically at some rager and
he took offence as I guess he sensed the sarcasm. He wanted to go me. Now
I am a big ugly bloke but I have seen some crazy things people are capable
of in my time due to a previous line of work. You can never be too sure how
crazy someone is and what sort of a life they have led. Fighting is really
a last last last resort to anything (someone forgot to tell George). I have
lost all my youthful hot headedness. Its just not worth it. My life is too
pleasant to worry about risking it for something stupid.

I actually prefer people that verbally (or honking) abuse me than people
that dont see me. If someone is honking me then I guess they have seen me.
Some of the driving I witness by people have such little idea that it amazes
me.

: I try and minimise how much I slow cars down, e.g by indicating
: a left turn so the side-street car can go (as mentioned above) or
: by moving over, waving people through, etc.
: It's got nothing to do with feeling intimidated by the cars, it simply
: reduces exhaust emissions if I don't hold anyone up. I do it as a
: pedestrian too.

I too. I will not delay traffic if its safe to do so. Fortunately on my
commuting route its not really that much of an issue.

:
: Being from the country though, I think I'm a lot nicer than
: city people! :-P

Maybe you are right there.

[Peter Cremasco]

On 10 Sep 2003 19:24:14 +0950, Nicko71 >
wrote:

>In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, honked at,
>and have near misses nearly every time I ride. Sometimes you end up in a
>situation where a confrontation occurs. What can we do to change the
>attitudes of motorists to make them more bike friendly??

I think it needs two things:

First: more cyclists on the road. Then we won't be considered an oddity
and motorists will be more used to having to mix it with cyclists on the
road.

Secondly: cyclists must abide by the road rules, just as motorists have
to. If we are constantly seen as flouting the law, then we lose our
legitimacy as bona-fida road users.


---
Cheers

PeterC

[Rushing headlong: out of control - and there ain't no stopping]
[and there's nothing you can do about it at all]

[Peter Cremasco]

On 10 Sep 2003 19:24:14 +0950, Nicko71 >
wrote:

>In Brisbane, riding bikes is a major hazard. I get abused, honked at,
>and have near misses nearly every time I ride. Sometimes you end up in a
>situation where a confrontation occurs. What can we do to change the
>attitudes of motorists to make them more bike friendly??

I think it needs two things:

First: more cyclists on the road. Then we won't be considered an oddity
and motorists will be more used to having to mix it with cyclists on the
road.

Secondly: cyclists must abide by the road rules, just as motorists have
to. If we are constantly seen as flouting the law, then we lose our
legitimacy as bona-fida road users.


---
Cheers

PeterC

[Rushing headlong: out of control - and there ain't no stopping]
[and there's nothing you can do about it at all]

[Peter Cremasco]

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:41:29 +0800, "Andy G" >
wrote:

>
>"PC" > wrote in message
...
>> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 03:09:39 +0800, "Andy G" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >make wider roads.
>>
>> How on earth would that help?
>
>lane markings, only 1m wider will give that bit more room.

I think that would only increase the expectation that motorist would not
have their progress impaired by cyclists.

When I previously said more cyclists on the road, I meant more cyclists
ON the road - asserting their position as legitimate road users.


---
Cheers

PeterC

[Rushing headlong: out of control - and there ain't no stopping]
[and there's nothing you can do about it at all]

[Peter Cremasco]

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:41:29 +0800, "Andy G" >
wrote:

>
>"PC" > wrote in message
...
>> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 03:09:39 +0800, "Andy G" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >make wider roads.
>>
>> How on earth would that help?
>
>lane markings, only 1m wider will give that bit more room.

I think that would only increase the expectation that motorist would not
have their progress impaired by cyclists.

When I previously said more cyclists on the road, I meant more cyclists
ON the road - asserting their position as legitimate road users.


---
Cheers

PeterC

[Rushing headlong: out of control - and there ain't no stopping]
[and there's nothing you can do about it at all]

[Peter Cremasco]

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 04:10:43 GMT, "John Doe"
> wrote:

>crossing the centre or slowing down. The main reason I believe people get
>angry is that they have to slow from 60 to 40 for 10metres. This has no
>effect on their overall trip time but its the fact they have to slow down.

The problem is not so much that they have to slow down, as the
_expectation_ that they should NOT have to slow down.


---
Cheers

PeterC

[Rushing headlong: out of control - and there ain't no stopping]
[and there's nothing you can do about it at all]

[Peter Cremasco]

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 04:10:43 GMT, "John Doe"
> wrote:

>crossing the centre or slowing down. The main reason I believe people get
>angry is that they have to slow from 60 to 40 for 10metres. This has no
>effect on their overall trip time but its the fact they have to slow down.

The problem is not so much that they have to slow down, as the
_expectation_ that they should NOT have to slow down.


---
Cheers

PeterC

[Rushing headlong: out of control - and there ain't no stopping]
[and there's nothing you can do about it at all]

[Peter Cremasco]

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:19:18 +0800, "Mitch Pollard"
> wrote:

>Get off the ****ing road you dickhead. the roads are for Cars. !
>
>got it, ? GET IT

Oh god! Someone just HAD to crosspost, didn't they!


---
Cheers

PeterC

[Rushing headlong: out of control - and there ain't no stopping]
[and there's nothing you can do about it at all]

[Peter Cremasco]

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:19:18 +0800, "Mitch Pollard"
> wrote:

>Get off the ****ing road you dickhead. the roads are for Cars. !
>
>got it, ? GET IT

Oh god! Someone just HAD to crosspost, didn't they!


---
Cheers

PeterC

[Rushing headlong: out of control - and there ain't no stopping]
[and there's nothing you can do about it at all]

[John Doe]

: >crossing the centre or slowing down. The main reason I believe people
get
: >angry is that they have to slow from 60 to 40 for 10metres. This has no
: >effect on their overall trip time but its the fact they have to slow
down.
:
: The problem is not so much that they have to slow down, as the
: _expectation_ that they should NOT have to slow down.
:

Definitely. You are dead right. That's why most people get angry.
Expectation is not met.

[John Doe]

: >crossing the centre or slowing down. The main reason I believe people
get
: >angry is that they have to slow from 60 to 40 for 10metres. This has no
: >effect on their overall trip time but its the fact they have to slow
down.
:
: The problem is not so much that they have to slow down, as the
: _expectation_ that they should NOT have to slow down.
:

Definitely. You are dead right. That's why most people get angry.
Expectation is not met.

[cfsmtb]

Bug Smasher wrote:




Agree with your comment Mr Smasher, but I'm gonna go off topic with
this thread.

Actually, I'm mildly concerned with your handle. Do you or don't you
like Bicycle User Groups (BUG's)? cheers, Member of Several BUG's in
Melbourne:D



--
it's all a creeping beige conspiracy

>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[cfsmtb]

Bug Smasher wrote:




Agree with your comment Mr Smasher, but I'm gonna go off topic with
this thread.

Actually, I'm mildly concerned with your handle. Do you or don't you
like Bicycle User Groups (BUG's)? cheers, Member of Several BUG's in
Melbourne:D



--
it's all a creeping beige conspiracy

>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Bug Smasher]

I think the best way to get drivers to respect cyclists is for cyclists
to respect the rules of te road. One thing that burns me as a cyclist is
seeing other cyclists running red lights. How do we expect drivers to
treat us as equals on the road when there are those (cyclists) who think
they're above the law? Now I know those who are serious and dedicated
cyclists, do their best to follow the rules, and the guilty ones tend to
be the occasional rider, but generally I think we need to set the
example and not give drivers excuses to criticize us.

That being said there are still idiot drivers who think they own the
road (I'm sure we've all experienced that yahoo in the pick-up truck
trying to force us off the road, or have had beer cans thrown at us from
a passing car, or maybe it's just me :( ) It's funny when, say, a car
does something stupid and shout obscenities at you, then tries to speed
away in downtown traffic (especially at rush hour) and to their
surprise, you catch up to them at the next light and politely ask for
"clarification" on what they said and an explanation on why they did
what they did, and perhaps provide a little "education" on sharing the
road. Suddenly they don't seem so high-and-mighty and invincible behind
the wheel. :)

So I say, don't give drivers an excuse to hate us and respect the rules
and then we can all get along!



--
it's all a creeping beige conspiracy

>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Bug Smasher]

I think the best way to get drivers to respect cyclists is for cyclists
to respect the rules of te road. One thing that burns me as a cyclist is
seeing other cyclists running red lights. How do we expect drivers to
treat us as equals on the road when there are those (cyclists) who think
they're above the law? Now I know those who are serious and dedicated
cyclists, do their best to follow the rules, and the guilty ones tend to
be the occasional rider, but generally I think we need to set the
example and not give drivers excuses to criticize us.

That being said there are still idiot drivers who think they own the
road (I'm sure we've all experienced that yahoo in the pick-up truck
trying to force us off the road, or have had beer cans thrown at us from
a passing car, or maybe it's just me :( ) It's funny when, say, a car
does something stupid and shout obscenities at you, then tries to speed
away in downtown traffic (especially at rush hour) and to their
surprise, you catch up to them at the next light and politely ask for
"clarification" on what they said and an explanation on why they did
what they did, and perhaps provide a little "education" on sharing the
road. Suddenly they don't seem so high-and-mighty and invincible behind
the wheel. :)

So I say, don't give drivers an excuse to hate us and respect the rules
and then we can all get along!



--
it's all a creeping beige conspiracy

>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[PC]

On 19 Sep 2003 16:27:30 +0950, Bug Smasher
> wrote:

>I think the best way to get drivers to respect cyclists is for cyclists
>to respect the rules of te road. One thing that burns me as a cyclist is
>seeing other cyclists running red lights. How do we expect drivers to
>treat us as equals on the road when there are those (cyclists) who think
>they're above the law?

There are plenty of car drivers that also have no respect for the
law.. Running red lights, stop signs, not stopping for trams,
blocking tram tracks, violation of speed limits, ignorance of speed
advisory signs on curves, straying across multiple lanes etc are
illegal actions that I see committed by car drivers on an almost daily
basis.. Cyclists are pretty good by comparison..


PC

[PC]

On 19 Sep 2003 16:27:30 +0950, Bug Smasher
> wrote:

>I think the best way to get drivers to respect cyclists is for cyclists
>to respect the rules of te road. One thing that burns me as a cyclist is
>seeing other cyclists running red lights. How do we expect drivers to
>treat us as equals on the road when there are those (cyclists) who think
>they're above the law?

There are plenty of car drivers that also have no respect for the
law.. Running red lights, stop signs, not stopping for trams,
blocking tram tracks, violation of speed limits, ignorance of speed
advisory signs on curves, straying across multiple lanes etc are
illegal actions that I see committed by car drivers on an almost daily
basis.. Cyclists are pretty good by comparison..


PC

[John Doe]

: There are plenty of car drivers that also have no respect for the
: law.. Running red lights, stop signs, not stopping for trams,
: blocking tram tracks, violation of speed limits, ignorance of speed

I totally agree but unfortunately in this non-utopian world so many car
drivers do it that its considered the norm. I think people notice cyclists
breaking the law a lot easier than motor vehicles because they are always
looking for an excuse.

Pete

[John Doe]

: There are plenty of car drivers that also have no respect for the
: law.. Running red lights, stop signs, not stopping for trams,
: blocking tram tracks, violation of speed limits, ignorance of speed

I totally agree but unfortunately in this non-utopian world so many car
drivers do it that its considered the norm. I think people notice cyclists
breaking the law a lot easier than motor vehicles because they are always
looking for an excuse.

Pete

[Bug Smasher]

cfsmtb wrote:
> Agree with your comment Mr Smasher, but I'm gonna go off topic with
> this thread.
> Actually, I'm mildly concerned with your handle. Do you or don't you
> like Bicycle User Groups (BUG's)? cheers, Member of Several BUG's in
> Melbourne:D



I didn't realize that BUG was an acronym. My apologies to all the BUGs
out there. It was a nick name my dad gave me for always riding out front
of the pack.

Cheers to all those Down Under!



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Bug Smasher]

cfsmtb wrote:
> Agree with your comment Mr Smasher, but I'm gonna go off topic with
> this thread.
> Actually, I'm mildly concerned with your handle. Do you or don't you
> like Bicycle User Groups (BUG's)? cheers, Member of Several BUG's in
> Melbourne:D



I didn't realize that BUG was an acronym. My apologies to all the BUGs
out there. It was a nick name my dad gave me for always riding out front
of the pack.

Cheers to all those Down Under!



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com