Re: my first accident...

[Adrian Boliston]

"Giles Paterson" > wrote in message
...

> .... Thankfully the bike is undamaged an I only have a bruise on
> my left ankle, and the driver was very apologetic about the whole thing,
> so I let him off with the recommendation that he look where he is going
> in future.

I had an accident where I only had a grazed thumb, but the next day I could not
move my arm at all (severe spraining), I was in agony. Just as well I got the
drivers details or I would have forfieted a £1300 claim.

[Giles Paterson]

Adrian Boliston wrote:

> "Giles Paterson" > wrote in message
> ...
>=20
>=20
>>.... Thankfully the bike is undamaged an I only have a bruise on
>>my left ankle, and the driver was very apologetic about the whole thing=
,
>>so I let him off with the recommendation that he look where he is going=

>>in future.
>=20
>=20
> I had an accident where I only had a grazed thumb, but the next day I c=
ould not
> move my arm at all (severe spraining), I was in agony. Just as well I =
got the
> drivers details or I would have forfieted a =A31300 claim.
>=20

damn and blast.

The one time I really needed to be thinking straight and I was acting=20
like a fool.

I'll just have to hope my ankle doesn't swell up overnight. It's already =

eased off a bit so hopefully I'll be okay.

--=20
Giles Paterson

[to reply, replace nospam with my first name]

[Colin Blackburn]

In article >,
says...

> Anyway, one of the on coming drivers decided to be helpful and flashed
> his lights to signal that I could turn right. However there was another
> cyclist coming up on his inside so I didn't turn immediately.
> Unfortunately the driver of the car in the side street decided that he
> was going to pull out, straight into the side of me. :-(

Good to hear you are okay but it might have been that the signal was to
the other driver or the other driver interpreted it that way. Of course
that does not in any way excuse the driver for not looking properly
before pulling out. An ex-colleague in Oxford was injured in just this
sort of incident, in her case she was the cyclist coming up the car's
inside and the driver that hit you hit her instead.

Colin

[Dave]

"Giles Paterson" > wrote in message
...
Adrian Boliston wrote:

> "Giles Paterson" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
>>.... Thankfully the bike is undamaged an I only have a bruise on
>>my left ankle, and the driver was very apologetic about the whole thing,
>>so I let him off with the recommendation that he look where he is going
>>in future.
>
>
> I had an accident where I only had a grazed thumb, but the next day I
could not
> move my arm at all (severe spraining), I was in agony. Just as well I got
the
> drivers details or I would have forfieted a £1300 claim.
>

damn and blast.

The one time I really needed to be thinking straight and I was acting
like a fool.

I'll just have to hope my ankle doesn't swell up overnight. It's already
eased off a bit so hopefully I'll be okay.

--
Giles Paterson

[to reply, replace nospam with my first name]

Don't forget readers, if this happens to you, firstly make sure there aren't
any other vehicles coming at you, then lie in the road, very still, until
someone comes over to make sure you aren't dead. Then ask them to call an
ambulance or paramedics. Not only does it guarantee you a morning off work
and a whole load of sympathy when you finally get there, but the police will
also turn up and the accident will become part of the statistics.
Eventually, if we get enough 'statistics', someone might decide to spend
some money on re-educating car drivers into considering bikes in their
0.0001second scan of the situation. Who knows, you might also get some
decent financial compensation out of it as well, especially if you can get
your friendly LBS to confirm that the frame of your extremely expensive
tourer is bent beyond repair!!
Fraud ?..maybe, but hey, it could brighten up an otherwise depressing day
;-)
Dave.
p.s. Glad to hear you survived (apparently) relatively unscathed. Hope
there's nothing nasty waiting to make itself known.

[Giles Paterson]

Dave wrote:

<snip>
>
> Don't forget readers, if this happens to you, firstly make sure there aren't
> any other vehicles coming at you, then lie in the road,

Yes, I realise now that I did exactly the wrong thing, however in my
defense there was a bus coming up behind me so I don't think lying in
the road would have been advisable.

The thing that annoys me most is that I have been following the recent
urc discussions concerning what to do in the event of an accident, but I
still ended up ignoring all that sage advice and became yet another
non-statistic.

Oh well, we live* and learn

[* depending upon severity of accident of course]

--
Giles Paterson

[to reply, replace nospam with my first name]

[Digweed .. ;\)]

Giles Paterson tried to scribble ...

> Anyway, one of the on coming drivers decided to be helpful and flashed
> his lights to signal that I could turn right. However there was

Unfortunately, according to the highway code, flashing lights is _NOT_ an
invitation to turn across the front of another car. Also, as there were
other vehicles waiting to turn at the same junction, how do you know the
flash was meant for you and not, as it appears someone else also thought,
for someone else ?

TBH this sounds all your own fault .. though this doesn't excuse the dickwad
driving into you .. ;)

Glad you weren't hurt .. ;)

--
Digweed
'79 Beamish RL 250
'97 Discovery 300 Tdi
'95 Dyna-Tech CroMo Comp ;)

[Clive George]

"Digweed .. ;)" > wrote in message
...
> Giles Paterson tried to scribble ...
>
> > Anyway, one of the on coming drivers decided to be helpful and flashed
> > his lights to signal that I could turn right. However there was
>
> Unfortunately, according to the highway code, flashing lights is _NOT_ an
> invitation to turn across the front of another car. Also, as there were
> other vehicles waiting to turn at the same junction, how do you know the
> flash was meant for you and not, as it appears someone else also thought,
> for someone else ?
>
> TBH this sounds all your own fault .. though this doesn't excuse the
dickwad
> driving into you .. ;)

Err - he is standing still in the middle of the road, the car pulls out into
his side, and it's his fault?

Here's the bit you snipped:

>However there was another
>cyclist coming up on his inside so I didn't turn immediately.
>Unfortunately the driver of the car in the side street decided that he
>was going to pull out, straight into the side of me. :-(

Sounds to me that your advice about flashing lights applies to the car
driver, not the OP, who was doing the right thing by ignoring it.

clive

[marc]

Digweed .. ;) > wrote:

> TBH this sounds all your own fault .. though this doesn't excuse the dickwad
> driving into you .. ;)

As Giles didn't move, how can he be responsible for

The driver coming towards him flashing

or

The driver to his right driving into him?

In short as he did nothing but wait for the traffic coming towards him
how can it be his fault?



--
Marc
Stickers,decals,membership,cards, T shirts, signs etc
for clubs and associations of all types.
http://www.jaceeprint.demon.co.uk/

[Giles Paterson]

Digweed .. ;) wrote:

> Unfortunately, according to the highway code, flashing lights is _NOT_ an
> invitation to turn across the front of another car. Also, as there were
> other vehicles waiting to turn at the same junction, how do you know the
> flash was meant for you and not, as it appears someone else also thought,
> for someone else ?

Yes, I'm well aware of what the highway code has to say on the matter,
and I _didn't_ turn right as a result of the oncoming driver flashing
their lights, especially since there was an oncoming cyclist also.

I was waiting for a safe gap in the traffic before turning right when
the driver in the side street decided to pull out.

> TBH this sounds all your own fault .. though this doesn't excuse the dickwad
> driving into you .. ;)

I disagree that this was my fault as I was stationary at the time.
Although perhaps I am at fault because if I had turned right into the
path of an oncoming cyclist then the car pulling out of the side street
would have missed me. Of course then I would be responsible for knocking
another cyclist off their bike...

> Glad you weren't hurt .. ;)

Thanks :-) my ankle is no longer sore and I took the bike out for a
quick spin
during my lunch break to double check that is was okay, which it is.


--
Giles Paterson

[to reply, replace nospam with my first name]

[Digweed .. ;\)]

Giles Paterson tried to scribble ...

> Digweed .. ;) wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately, according to the highway code, flashing lights is
>> _NOT_ an invitation to turn across the front of another car. Also,
>> as there were other vehicles waiting to turn at the same junction,
>> how do you know the flash was meant for you and not, as it appears
>> someone else also thought, for someone else ?
>
> Yes, I'm well aware of what the highway code has to say on the matter,
> and I _didn't_ turn right as a result of the oncoming driver flashing
> their lights, especially since there was an oncoming cyclist also.
>
> I was waiting for a safe gap in the traffic before turning right when
> the driver in the side street decided to pull out.

OK, my bad .. I mis-read it as though you had moved then stopped.

My apologies .. ;)


--
Digweed
'79 Beamish RL 250
'97 Discovery 300 Tdi
'95 Dyna-Tech CroMo Comp ;)

[Tony W]

"Digweed .. ;)" > wrote in message
...
>
> Unfortunately, according to the highway code, flashing lights is _NOT_ an
> invitation to turn across the front of another car. Also, as there were
> other vehicles waiting to turn at the same junction, how do you know the
> flash was meant for you and not, as it appears someone else also thought,
> for someone else ?
>
> TBH this sounds all your own fault .. though this doesn't excuse the
dickwad
> driving into you .. ;)


Flashing headlights is a warning -- as such it alerts you to the actions or
intentions of the driver flashing.

OP interpreted this as an indication that the 'flasher' was leaving a space
and, possibly, as an invitation to proceed. He didn't do so -- aware that
another road user had not indicated they were equally relaxed to have him
cross their path.

As he was (I believe) on the main road turning into a minor road he had
priority over the dipstick who proceeded to knock him off his bike.

OK -- the OP might perhaps have been more aware of the movements of said
dipstick -- but I cannot see where he did much wrong. He had priority over
dipstick, flasher had ceded priority and he waited for the other road user
who had priority over him.

T

[marc]

Tony W > wrote:

> Flashing headlights is a warning -- as such it alerts you to the actions or
> intentions of the driver flashing.

NOOOOOOO!!!!

The flashing of headlights's only proper function is to indicate the
vehicles prescence, anything else is telepathy based.


--
Marc
Stickers,decals,membership,cards, T shirts, signs etc
for clubs and associations of all types.
http://www.jaceeprint.demon.co.uk/

[Richard Goodman]

"marc" > wrote in message
.co.uk...
> Tony W > wrote:
>
> > Flashing headlights is a warning -- as such it alerts you to the actions
or
> > intentions of the driver flashing.
>
> NOOOOOOO!!!!
>
> The flashing of headlights's only proper function is to indicate the
> vehicles prescence, anything else is telepathy based.
>

Headlights are, whatever one may consider to be their 'proper function'
flashed in a variety of circumstances - as a warning of presence, as an
invitation to proceed, or as a thank you. Obviously to some extent
interpretation is always going to be a matter of telepathy, and even if you
'know' what the other driver intends, what you do about it still has to be
judged in the light of _all_ the circumstances related to road and traffic
conditions in your intended path. You can't defer judgement on a decision
whether to proceed to someone else, whatever the signal was intended to mean
and whatever you think it was intended to mean.

There is a court decision which found that where a driver flashed his lights
to indicate that he would give way to another driver, and a motorcyclist got
injured as the other driver inevitably pulled out, that a flash in such
circumstances simply means "come on so far as I am concerned". Which seems
reasonable. A driver may choose to give way to another road user, it
doesn't mean everyone else has to or will.

Rich

[Richard Goodman]

"Giles Paterson" > wrote in message
...

> I disagree that this was my fault as I was stationary at the time.
> Although perhaps I am at fault because if I had turned right into the
> path of an oncoming cyclist then the car pulling out of the side street
> would have missed me. Of course then I would be responsible for knocking
> another cyclist off their bike...
>

Of course, you didn't do anything wrong, but perhaps with the benefit of
hindsight there was a third option - to have proceeded with turning right
slowly as the car indicated an intention to allow you to turn, just enough
to move across in front of the car but then, if necessary, stop, and wait
for the cyclist to pass on the inside. It's a sort of incremental turn,
taking advantage of a gap or concession by one part of the oncoming traffic,
to complete the turn when the rest of the carriageway is clear or gives way.
That way you also clear the intersection for traffic coming out of the road
you want to move into.

Rich

[AndyMorris]

Dave wrote:
>>
> Post-accident is a strange time mentally. All reasoned thought
> generally goes out of the window. If I find myself in that situation
> (and I seriously hope I don't), I think I might use the adrenalin
> rush to convert the 4 wheeled vehicle into a two wheeled ;-)....might
> as well make some use of it besides masking the pain.
>

I do worry that if someone hit me, I might get so mad that I'd duff up the
car.

Would that count as a defence ?



--
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK


Love this:
Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/

[Giles Paterson]

AndyMorris wrote:

> Dave wrote:
>
>>Post-accident is a strange time mentally. All reasoned thought
>>generally goes out of the window. If I find myself in that situation
>>(and I seriously hope I don't), I think I might use the adrenalin
>>rush to convert the 4 wheeled vehicle into a two wheeled ;-)....might
>>as well make some use of it besides masking the pain.
>>
>
>
> I do worry that if someone hit me, I might get so mad that I'd duff up the
> car.

I'm surprised at how much I have mellowed since my daughter was born
three months ago. I used to get irate at the slightest wrong doing by
motorists when I was out cycling. Now though I (usually) manage to calm
myself a bit before explaining their faults to the motorist.

When I got hit yesterday, the worst I did was bang on the bonnet of the
car and yell "what the hell do you think you are doing?" at the driver.

The fact that the driver was apologetic and not aggressive helped
though. If he'd started to get arsey then I'm not sure I wouldn't have
said/done worse.

Of course, on inspecting my bike I can take a small amount of
satisfaction in the fact that there is a large amount of blue paint on
my right pedal, so he must have a nasty scratch on the front of his car.

> Would that count as a defence ?
>
probably not, in fact you'd more than likely end up with some sort of
criminal damages charge. Sod's law and all.

--
Giles Paterson

[to reply, replace nospam with my first name]

[Giles Paterson]

Richard Goodman wrote:

>
> Of course, you didn't do anything wrong, but perhaps with the benefit of
> hindsight there was a third option - to have proceeded with turning right
> slowly as the car indicated an intention to allow you to turn, just enough
> to move across in front of the car but then, if necessary, stop, and wait
> for the cyclist to pass on the inside. It's a sort of incremental turn,
> taking advantage of a gap or concession by one part of the oncoming traffic,
> to complete the turn when the rest of the carriageway is clear or gives way.
> That way you also clear the intersection for traffic coming out of the road
> you want to move into.
>

Yes, that's more or less what I was going to do, it's just that in the
time it took for me to look over my right shoulder to make sure no other
vehicle was trying to turn right also, the driver pulled out of the side
street. Perhaps I should have been a little quicker off the mark.

--
Giles Paterson

[to reply, replace nospam with my first name]

[James Hodson]

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:19:57 +0100, Giles Paterson >
wrote:

>When I got hit yesterday, the worst I did was bang on the bonnet of the
>car and yell "what the hell do you think you are doing?" at the driver.
>

Hi Giles

I'm glad to hear that you're more or less OK. "What the hell do you
think you are doing?" sounds extremely civilized.

Quite recently I was almost hit in the very same place where I'd been
the victim of a hit and run a few months earlier. I shouted out:
"Don't you even think of turning left here!" It worked. The driver
stopped. However, I doubt the driver would have stopped had I not
shouted.

I've yet to read the rest of this thread, Giles, so I don't know how
you're faring post-bang. But, for me, it's the aches and stiffness
that follow even a minor "off" that are reasonably debilitating,
albeit for a shortish time. As I mentioned above, I'm glad that at
first probe around youself you seem to be OK.

James

--
"Sorry mate, I didn't see you" is not a satisfactory excuse.

[Giles Paterson]

James Hodson wrote:

<snip>
> Quite recently I was almost hit in the very same place where I'd been
> the victim of a hit and run a few months earlier. I shouted out:
> "Don't you even think of turning left here!" It worked. The driver
> stopped. However, I doubt the driver would have stopped had I not
> shouted.

Just as well the driver wasn't talking on their mobile or listening to
music at high volume or you might have come a cropper again...

> I've yet to read the rest of this thread, Giles, so I don't know how
> you're faring post-bang. But, for me, it's the aches and stiffness
> that follow even a minor "off" that are reasonably debilitating,
> albeit for a shortish time. As I mentioned above, I'm glad that at
> first probe around youself you seem to be OK.

Thankfully I'm alright. My left ankle was a bit sore the day after but
is okay now. The bike is unscathed which is rather a relief, I hate to
think what the bike and I would be like had the driver accelerated more
rapidly out of the side street.

--
Giles Paterson

[to reply, replace nospam with my first name]