T d F / Etape

[RogerC]

OK -- so the route from Limoges to St Flour has 1 category 4 climb, 5 cat 3,
2 cat 2 and a cat 1.

Is there a formal definition of each cat. --I have an impression that there
is not -- so that the definitions are a bit arbitrary, but can someone
confirm or correct my impression.
Roger

[Ewoud Dronkert]

On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 19:32:33 +0000 (UTC), RogerC wrote:
> Is there a formal definition of each cat.

No.

http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=category%20climbs%20tour%20france

[Bert L.]

"Ewoud Dronkert" > schreef in bericht
...
> On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 19:32:33 +0000 (UTC), RogerC wrote:
> > Is there a formal definition of each cat.
>
> No.
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=category%20climbs%20tour%20france

Jij hier?
Het rondje IJsselmeer is trouwens dit jaar op een verkeerde datum. Ik heb
sponsorverplichtingen in Daun tijdens de Vulkan Bike MTB Marathon
(www.vulkanbike.de). Is wel jammer overigens, want ik rijd dit jaar als een
trein. (Maandag nog effe Veenendaal-Amsterdam-Veenendaal á 165 km om een
vergeten jasje op te halen).

cheers,

http://www.xs4all.nl/~tolamb/tempo2/
Bert L.am

[Ewoud Dronkert]

On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 19:18:21 +0200, Bert L. wrote:
>Het rondje IJsselmeer is trouwens dit jaar op een verkeerde datum.

Yeah, 9/11...

> Ik heb sponsorverplichtingen

Ah, Mr. Pro bike rider!!

[Bert L.am]

"Ewoud Dronkert" > schreef in bericht
...
> On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 19:18:21 +0200, Bert L. wrote:
> >Het rondje IJsselmeer is trouwens dit jaar op een verkeerde datum.
>
> Yeah, 9/11...
>
> > Ik heb sponsorverplichtingen
>
> Ah, Mr. Pro bike rider!!

Ik overdrijf (veel en graag). Wil gewoon graag de serie van vijf mtb
marathons (waar ik als assistent de IT van doe) volledig meemaken en
meerijden. En de beide ritten vallen samen. Ik had de heren Nereïden ook al
op de ongelukkige samenhang met 9.11 gewezen, maar dat mag weer geen reden
zijn om niet te fietsen.

cheers,.

Bert


--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

[Dave Kahn]

On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 19:18:21 +0200, "Bert L." > wrote:

>Jij hier?
>Het rondje IJsselmeer is trouwens dit jaar op een verkeerde datum. Ik heb
>sponsorverplichtingen in Daun tijdens de Vulkan Bike MTB Marathon
>(www.vulkanbike.de). Is wel jammer overigens, want ik rijd dit jaar als een
>trein. (Maandag nog effe Veenendaal-Amsterdam-Veenendaal á 165 km om een
>vergeten jasje op te halen).

Doesn't it hurt your throat, writing like that?

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

[Keith Willoughby]

Dave Kahn wrote:

> On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 19:18:21 +0200, "Bert L." > wrote:
>
>>Jij hier?
>>Het rondje IJsselmeer is trouwens dit jaar op een verkeerde datum. Ik heb
>>sponsorverplichtingen in Daun tijdens de Vulkan Bike MTB Marathon
>>(www.vulkanbike.de). Is wel jammer overigens, want ik rijd dit jaar als een
>>trein. (Maandag nog effe Veenendaal-Amsterdam-Veenendaal á 165 km om een
>>vergeten jasje op te halen).
>
> Doesn't it hurt your throat, writing like that?

Plenty of phlegm, that's the secret.

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
Keep on keeping on.

[Dave Kahn]

On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 21:20:25 +0100, Keith Willoughby
> wrote:

>Dave Kahn wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 19:18:21 +0200, "Bert L." > wrote:
>>
>>>Jij hier?
>>>Het rondje IJsselmeer is trouwens dit jaar op een verkeerde datum. Ik heb
>>>sponsorverplichtingen in Daun tijdens de Vulkan Bike MTB Marathon
>>>(www.vulkanbike.de). Is wel jammer overigens, want ik rijd dit jaar als een
>>>trein. (Maandag nog effe Veenendaal-Amsterdam-Veenendaal á 165 km om een
>>>vergeten jasje op te halen).
>>
>> Doesn't it hurt your throat, writing like that?
>
>Plenty of phlegm, that's the secret.

Hence the term Phlegmish.

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

[Bert L.]

"Dave Kahn" > schreef in bericht
...
> On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 21:20:25 +0100, Keith Willoughby
> > wrote:
>
> >Dave Kahn wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 19:18:21 +0200, "Bert L." > wrote:
> >>
> >>>Jij hier?
> >>>Het rondje IJsselmeer is trouwens dit jaar op een verkeerde datum. Ik
heb
> >>>sponsorverplichtingen in Daun tijdens de Vulkan Bike MTB Marathon
> >>>(www.vulkanbike.de). Is wel jammer overigens, want ik rijd dit jaar als
een
> >>>trein. (Maandag nog effe Veenendaal-Amsterdam-Veenendaal á 165 km om
een
> >>>vergeten jasje op te halen).
> >>
> >> Doesn't it hurt your throat, writing like that?
> >
> >Plenty of phlegm, that's the secret.
>
> Hence the term Phlegmish.
>
> --
> Dave...

I've started my training in vocal use of this language at the age of 1.
Writing was little more difficult, but I have succeeded to grasp the
essentials. Fancy taking some lessons in Dutch?

Bert L. from NL (EU)

[MartinM]

Dave Kahn > wrote in message >...
> On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 21:20:25 +0100, Keith Willoughby
> > wrote:
>
> >Dave Kahn wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 19:18:21 +0200, "Bert L." > wrote:
> >>
> >>>Jij hier?
> >>>Het rondje IJsselmeer is trouwens dit jaar op een verkeerde datum. Ik heb
> >>>sponsorverplichtingen in Daun tijdens de Vulkan Bike MTB Marathon
> >>>(www.vulkanbike.de). Is wel jammer overigens, want ik rijd dit jaar als een
> >>>trein. (Maandag nog effe Veenendaal-Amsterdam-Veenendaal á 165 km om een
> >>>vergeten jasje op te halen).
> >>
> >> Doesn't it hurt your throat, writing like that?
> >
> >Plenty of phlegm, that's the secret.
>
> Hence the term Phlegmish.

When in Amsterdam you must try Vlamsefrites (Flemish fries) 2kg of
chips with 1/2 a kilo of mayonaise of various flavours all served
rolled up in paper British stylee ;-)

[Roos Eisma]

"Bert L." > writes:

>I've started my training in vocal use of this language at the age of 1.
>Writing was little more difficult, but I have succeeded to grasp the
>essentials. Fancy taking some lessons in Dutch?

I have ordered Pete the "teach yourself Dutch in 3 weeks" books (or
something like that) so once they arrive he will be throatscraping all
over the place to practise :)

Roos

[Peter Clinch]

Roos Eisma wrote:

> I have ordered Pete the "teach yourself Dutch in 3 weeks" books (or
> something like that) so once they arrive he will be throatscraping all
> over the place to practise :)

So far I have merely been slaughtering the odd word (useful ones like
"kaas" and "ligfiets"), and am laying in a supply of Fisherman's Friends.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Bert L.]

"MartinM" > schreef in bericht
om...
> Dave Kahn > wrote in message
>...
> > On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 21:20:25 +0100, Keith Willoughby
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >Dave Kahn wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 19:18:21 +0200, "Bert L." > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>Jij hier?
> > >>>Het rondje IJsselmeer is trouwens dit jaar op een verkeerde datum. Ik
heb
> > >>>sponsorverplichtingen in Daun tijdens de Vulkan Bike MTB Marathon
> > >>>(www.vulkanbike.de). Is wel jammer overigens, want ik rijd dit jaar
als een
> > >>>trein. (Maandag nog effe Veenendaal-Amsterdam-Veenendaal á 165 km om
een
> > >>>vergeten jasje op te halen).
> > >>
> > >> Doesn't it hurt your throat, writing like that?
> > >
> > >Plenty of phlegm, that's the secret.
> >
> > Hence the term Phlegmish.
>
> When in Amsterdam you must try Vlamsefrites (Flemish fries) 2kg of
> chips with 1/2 a kilo of mayonaise of various flavours all served
> rolled up in paper British stylee ;-)

When there, please visit this restaurant: www.tlieverdje.nl
You will get your Flemish Fries from my brother in law.
When you smile and tell him you were referred to him by me (I'm his
webmaster) and you know me from the internet bike scene, you'll get a nice
bikers discount.

Bert L.am (from NL, EU)

[triumvir]

"Bert L." > wrote in message >...
> "MartinM" > schreef in bericht
> om...
> > Dave Kahn > wrote in message
> >...
> > > On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 21:20:25 +0100, Keith Willoughby
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >Dave Kahn wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 19:18:21 +0200, "Bert L." > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>>Jij hier?
> > > >>>Het rondje IJsselmeer is trouwens dit jaar op een verkeerde datum. Ik
> heb
> > > >>>sponsorverplichtingen in Daun tijdens de Vulkan Bike MTB Marathon
> > > >>>(www.vulkanbike.de). Is wel jammer overigens, want ik rijd dit jaar
> als een
> > > >>>trein. (Maandag nog effe Veenendaal-Amsterdam-Veenendaal á 165 km om
> een
> > > >>>vergeten jasje op te halen).
> > > >>
> > > >> Doesn't it hurt your throat, writing like that?
> > > >
> > > >Plenty of phlegm, that's the secret.
> > >
> > > Hence the term Phlegmish.

Actually, it's the Dutch that scrape their throat and disperse a royal
amount of phlegm while conversing. If you (and others) had any clue
you'd know that even the "Dutch" (actually, if used correctly Dutch
(Diets) refers to Netherlanders & Flemings. Except in English of
course...) say that "Flemish" is much softer to the ear.

But you're British. I understand.

> >
> > When in Amsterdam you must try Vlamsefrites (Flemish fries) 2kg of

Vlaamse friet/frieten (coming from frituren, meaning to fry). Frites
is French.

> > chips with 1/2 a kilo of mayonaise of various flavours all served
> > rolled up in paper British stylee ;-)
>
> When there, please visit this restaurant: www.tlieverdje.nl
> You will get your Flemish Fries from my brother in law.
> When you smile and tell him you were referred to him by me (I'm his
> webmaster) and you know me from the internet bike scene, you'll get a nice
> bikers discount.



>
> Bert L.am (from NL, EU)

[Mark South]

"triumvir" > wrote in message
om...
>
> Actually, it's the Dutch that scrape their throat and disperse a royal
> amount of phlegm while conversing. If you (and others) had any clue

Actually, old chap, it's somewhat harsh of you to be so down on your audience
for having such a poor knowledge of Dutch when said audience consists almost
entirely of UK types who read uk.rec.cycling.

For example, I speak several languages and can read quite a lot of some others.
But if I posted here in, say, Russian, I'd expect a bit of stick from the
locals.

> you'd know that even the "Dutch" (actually, if used correctly Dutch
> (Diets) refers to Netherlanders & Flemings. Except in English of
> course...) say that "Flemish" is much softer to the ear.

The Flemish are Flemish because they chose not to be Dutch.

English has a lot of oddities that are peculiar to it. Borrowing words
wholesale for example, like "trek" and "derailleur" and "eigenvector".

I gather, for another example, that Dutch doesn't have a single word to describe
the peculiarly English concept of "gullible".

> But you're British. I understand.

It's a failing shared by about 60 million people.

Now what does this have to do with Le Tour?
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen, Clever Linguist

[Dave Kahn]

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 16:37:40 +0200, "Bert L." > wrote:

>I've started my training in vocal use of this language at the age of 1.
>Writing was little more difficult, but I have succeeded to grasp the
>essentials. Fancy taking some lessons in Dutch?

A Dutch colleague once recited some Dutch tongue twisters for me. They
sounded most impressive, and quite impossible for a non-native
speaker.

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

[Dave Kahn]

On 11 Jun 2004 03:58:51 -0700, (triumvir) wrote:

>> > Dave Kahn > wrote in message

>> > > Hence the term Phlegmish.
>
>Actually, it's the Dutch that scrape their throat and disperse a royal
>amount of phlegm while conversing. If you (and others) had any clue
>you'd know that even the "Dutch" (actually, if used correctly Dutch
>(Diets) refers to Netherlanders & Flemings. Except in English of
>course...) say that "Flemish" is much softer to the ear.

I was stretching the point somewhat in order to make a pun.

>But you're British. I understand.

I have managed to acquire French, Norwegian and Russian, but
admittedly the language spoken in the Netherlands remains Double Dutch
to me.

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

[David Martin]

On 11/6/04 2:39 pm, in article ,
"Dave Kahn" > wrote:

> I have managed to acquire French, Norwegian and Russian, but
> admittedly the language spoken in the Netherlands remains Double Dutch
> to me.

Spoken maybe but do you find that you can read a lot of it (if you sort of
pretend it is Norwegian Oranjeboom?

I was quite surprised how much Afrikaans I could understand when I visited
South Afrika after learning Norwegian.

...d

[Roos Eisma]

David Martin > writes:

>On 11/6/04 2:39 pm, in article ,
>"Dave Kahn" > wrote:

>> I have managed to acquire French, Norwegian and Russian, but
>> admittedly the language spoken in the Netherlands remains Double Dutch
>> to me.

>Spoken maybe but do you find that you can read a lot of it (if you sort of
>pretend it is Norwegian Oranjeboom?

>I was quite surprised how much Afrikaans I could understand when I visited
>South Afrika after learning Norwegian.

And, the other way around, how easy Norwegian is once you have learnt
Dutch and English. Again, written rather than spoken...

Roos

[David Martin]

On 11/6/04 3:22 pm, in article , "Roos
Eisma" > wrote:


> And, the other way around, how easy Norwegian is once you have learnt
> Dutch and English. Again, written rather than spoken...

And the rules for translating the various funny characters and sounds..

(ø => oe, &ae; => ae, å => aa and kj means clear your throat
;-)

...d

[Ewoud Dronkert]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:31:05 GMT, Dave Kahn wrote:
>A Dutch colleague once recited some Dutch tongue twisters for me. They
>sounded most impressive, and quite impossible for a non-native
>speaker.

"Scheveningen, Scheveningen!" -- Soldaat van Oranje (Verhoeven, dir.)

[David Martin]

On 11/6/04 4:19 pm, in article ,
"Ewoud Dronkert" > wrote:
>
> "Scheveningen, Scheveningen!" -- Soldaat van Oranje (Verhoeven, dir.)

Bless You - now pass the tissues.

...d

[MartinM]

(triumvir) wrote in message >...
> "Bert L." > wrote in message >...
> > "MartinM" > schreef in bericht
> > om...
> > > Dave Kahn > wrote in message
> >...
> > > > On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 21:20:25 +0100, Keith Willoughby
> > > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Dave Kahn wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 19:18:21 +0200, "Bert L." > wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>Jij hier?
> > > > >>>Het rondje IJsselmeer is trouwens dit jaar op een verkeerde datum. Ik
> heb
> > > > >>>sponsorverplichtingen in Daun tijdens de Vulkan Bike MTB Marathon
> > > > >>>(www.vulkanbike.de). Is wel jammer overigens, want ik rijd dit jaar
> als een
> > > > >>>trein. (Maandag nog effe Veenendaal-Amsterdam-Veenendaal á 165 km om
> een
> > > > >>>vergeten jasje op te halen).
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Doesn't it hurt your throat, writing like that?
> > > > >
> > > > >Plenty of phlegm, that's the secret.
> > > >
> > > > Hence the term Phlegmish.
>
> Actually, it's the Dutch that scrape their throat and disperse a royal
> amount of phlegm while conversing. If you (and others) had any clue
> you'd know that even the "Dutch" (actually, if used correctly Dutch
> (Diets) refers to Netherlanders & Flemings. Except in English of
> course...) say that "Flemish" is much softer to the ear.
>
> But you're British. I understand.
>
> > >
> > > When in Amsterdam you must try Vlamsefrites (Flemish fries) 2kg of
>
> Vlaamse friet/frieten (coming from frituren, meaning to fry). Frites
> is French.

I stand corrected, I got the word from a fellow commuter's cycling
jersey:
http://www.farmfrites.com
Also , why can you not buy fish and chips from the same shop, or is
that the Vlaamse version of asking for Pizza Napoletana with mushy
peas?

[Helen Deborah Vecht]

Roos Eisma >typed


> >I was quite surprised how much Afrikaans I could understand when I visited
> >South Afrika after learning Norwegian.

> And, the other way around, how easy Norwegian is once you have learnt
> Dutch and English. Again, written rather than spoken...

> Roos

Funny, my Flemish-speaking father never took well to the Danish spoken
by his wife and her kin...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

[Mark South]

"Helen Deborah Vecht" > wrote in message
...
> Roos Eisma >typed
>
> > >I was quite surprised how much Afrikaans I could understand when I visited
> > >South Afrika after learning Norwegian.

That's the beer that does it.

> > And, the other way around, how easy Norwegian is once you have learnt
> > Dutch and English. Again, written rather than spoken...

That's the akvavit that does it.

> Funny, my Flemish-speaking father never took well to the Danish spoken
> by his wife and her kin...

And to symmetrise that, a Danish man of my close personal acquaintance who lived
a quarter century in South Africa without managing to understand any Afrikaans.

The closest I ever came to speaking fluent Italian was a long summer evening at
a wedding party in a restaurant in Bologna. My speech and comprehension kept
improving until the wine ran out, unfortunately just before my grasp of the
language became permanent. By the next morning it was all gone.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen, On Parle Merde

[Jon Senior]

Mark South opined the following...
> And to symmetrise that, a Danish man of my close personal acquaintance who lived
> a quarter century in South Africa without managing to understand any Afrikaans.
>
> The closest I ever came to speaking fluent Italian was a long summer evening at
> a wedding party in a restaurant in Bologna. My speech and comprehension kept
> improving until the wine ran out, unfortunately just before my grasp of the
> language became permanent. By the next morning it was all gone.

I discovered that between my French, and my friend's Spanish /
Portuguese, we could very rapidly learn Italian. I think that once you
get to grips with one or two languages with a common route the rest
follow. The difficulty is then in keeping them separate.

Jon

[Mark South]

"Jon Senior" <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote in message
...
> Mark South opined the following...
> > And to symmetrise that, a Danish man of my close personal acquaintance who
lived
> > a quarter century in South Africa without managing to understand any
Afrikaans.
> >
> > The closest I ever came to speaking fluent Italian was a long summer evening
at
> > a wedding party in a restaurant in Bologna. My speech and comprehension
kept
> > improving until the wine ran out, unfortunately just before my grasp of the
> > language became permanent. By the next morning it was all gone.
>
> I discovered that between my French, and my friend's Spanish /
> Portuguese, we could very rapidly learn Italian. I think that once you
> get to grips with one or two languages with a common route the rest
> follow. The difficulty is then in keeping them separate.

Ich wiss naturellement wat jy probeer dicere al mi completely.

Soy cansado, je vais graag aller al liton por dormere. Buona sera.
--
"A kilt opens up new possibilities."
- Gary D. Schwartz in rec.backcountry

[Ambrose Nankivell]

In ,
Mark South > typed:
> "Jon Senior" <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote in message
> ...
>> Mark South opined the following...
>>> And to symmetrise that, a Danish man of my close personal
>>> acquaintance who lived a quarter century in South Africa without
>>> managing to understand any Afrikaans.
>>>
>>> The closest I ever came to speaking fluent Italian was a long
>>> summer evening at a wedding party in a restaurant in Bologna. My
>>> speech and comprehension kept improving until the wine ran out,
>>> unfortunately just before my grasp of the language became
>>> permanent. By the next morning it was all gone.
>>
>> I discovered that between my French, and my friend's Spanish /
>> Portuguese, we could very rapidly learn Italian. I think that once
>> you get to grips with one or two languages with a common route the
>> rest follow. The difficulty is then in keeping them separate.
>
> Ich wiss naturellement wat jy probeer dicere al mi completely.
>
> Soy cansado, je vais graag aller al liton por dormere. Buona sera.

Sorry, ??? ??????.

Well, actually I did understand. There are of course some languages which
are completely unrelated.

A

[Mark South]

"Ambrose Nankivell" > wrote in message
...
> In ,
> Mark South > typed:
> > "Jon Senior" <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Mark South opined the following...
> >>> And to symmetrise that, a Danish man of my close personal
> >>> acquaintance who lived a quarter century in South Africa without
> >>> managing to understand any Afrikaans.
> >>>
> >>> The closest I ever came to speaking fluent Italian was a long
> >>> summer evening at a wedding party in a restaurant in Bologna. My
> >>> speech and comprehension kept improving until the wine ran out,
> >>> unfortunately just before my grasp of the language became
> >>> permanent. By the next morning it was all gone.
> >>
> >> I discovered that between my French, and my friend's Spanish /
> >> Portuguese, we could very rapidly learn Italian. I think that once
> >> you get to grips with one or two languages with a common route the
> >> rest follow. The difficulty is then in keeping them separate.
> >
> > Ich wiss naturellement wat jy probeer dicere al mi completely.
> >
> > Soy cansado, je vais graag aller al liton por dormere. Buona sera.
>
> Sorry, ??? ??????.
>
> Well, actually I did understand. There are of course some languages which
> are completely unrelated.

Konichiwa!

I only managed eight in that sample, and they all belong to the Latinic and
Germanic families.

Sayonara.
--

-- M.

[James Annan]

Mark South wrote:

> Konichiwa!

and konnichiwa (correct spelling, even ignoring the "wa" - "ha" thing)
to you.

> Sayonara.

$B$I$&$$$?$7$^$7$F!#(B

James

[triumvir]

"Mark South" > wrote in message >...
> "triumvir" > wrote in message
> om...
> >
> > Actually, it's the Dutch that scrape their throat and disperse a royal
> > amount of phlegm while conversing. If you (and others) had any clue
>
> Actually, old chap, it's somewhat harsh of you to be so down on your audience
> for having such a poor knowledge of Dutch when said audience consists almost
> entirely of UK types who read uk.rec.cycling.
>
> For example, I speak several languages and can read quite a lot of some others.
> But if I posted here in, say, Russian, I'd expect a bit of stick from the
> locals.
>
> > you'd know that even the "Dutch" (actually, if used correctly Dutch
> > (Diets) refers to Netherlanders & Flemings. Except in English of
> > course...) say that "Flemish" is much softer to the ear.
>
> The Flemish are Flemish because they chose not to be Dutch.

Nope, both Flemings and Netherlanders are of "Dietse Bloed". Anyway...

>
> English has a lot of oddities that are peculiar to it. Borrowing words
> wholesale for example, like "trek" and "derailleur" and "eigenvector".

Derailleur originally being French.

>
> I gather, for another example, that Dutch doesn't have a single word to describe
> the peculiarly English concept of "gullible".

Goedgelovig.

>
> > But you're British. I understand.
>
> It's a failing shared by about 60 million people.
>
> Now what does this have to do with Le Tour?

Not anymore than Phlegm does with boating.

[triumvir]

Dave Kahn > wrote in message >...
> On 11 Jun 2004 03:58:51 -0700, (triumvir) wrote:
>
> >> > Dave Kahn > wrote in message
>
> >> > > Hence the term Phlegmish.
> >
> >Actually, it's the Dutch that scrape their throat and disperse a royal
> >amount of phlegm while conversing. If you (and others) had any clue
> >you'd know that even the "Dutch" (actually, if used correctly Dutch
> >(Diets) refers to Netherlanders & Flemings. Except in English of
> >course...) say that "Flemish" is much softer to the ear.
>
> I was stretching the point somewhat in order to make a pun.

A pun that is oh so boring, and oh so stereotypical that it's not
really funny. It's like making a joke about the English by saying they
wear kilts. Over and over. Funny only if you're ignorant, or only if
you laugh *at* the person making the pun.

>
> >But you're British. I understand.
>
> I have managed to acquire French, Norwegian and Russian, but
> admittedly the language spoken in the Netherlands remains Double Dutch
> to me.

As is traditionally the norm.

[triumvir]

Dave Kahn > wrote in message >...
> On 11 Jun 2004 03:58:51 -0700, (triumvir) wrote:
>
> >> > Dave Kahn > wrote in message
>
> >> > > Hence the term Phlegmish.
> >
> >Actually, it's the Dutch that scrape their throat and disperse a royal
> >amount of phlegm while conversing. If you (and others) had any clue
> >you'd know that even the "Dutch" (actually, if used correctly Dutch
> >(Diets) refers to Netherlanders & Flemings. Except in English of
> >course...) say that "Flemish" is much softer to the ear.
>
> I was stretching the point somewhat in order to make a pun.

A pun that is oh so boring, and oh so stereotypical that it's not
really funny. It's like making a joke about the English by saying they
wear kilts. Funny only if you're ignorant, or only if you laugh *at*
the person making the pun.

>
> >But you're British. I understand.
>
> I have managed to acquire French, Norwegian and Russian, but
> admittedly the language spoken in the Netherlands remains Double Dutch
> to me.

As is traditionally the norm.

[triumvir]

Dave Kahn > wrote in message >...
> On 11 Jun 2004 03:58:51 -0700, (triumvir) wrote:
>
> >> > Dave Kahn > wrote in message
>
> >> > > Hence the term Phlegmish.
> >
> >Actually, it's the Dutch that scrape their throat and disperse a royal
> >amount of phlegm while conversing. If you (and others) had any clue
> >you'd know that even the "Dutch" (actually, if used correctly Dutch
> >(Diets) refers to Netherlanders & Flemings. Except in English of
> >course...) say that "Flemish" is much softer to the ear.
>
> I was stretching the point somewhat in order to make a pun.

A pun that is oh so boring, and oh so stereotypical that it's not
really funny. It's like making a joke about the English by saying they
wear kilts. Funny only if you're ignorant, or only if you laugh *at*
the person making the pun.

>
> >But you're British. I understand.
>
> I have managed to acquire French, Norwegian and Russian, but
> admittedly the language spoken in the Netherlands remains Double Dutch
> to me.

As is traditionally the norm.

[Ewoud Dronkert]

triumvir wrote:
> Nope, both Flemings and Netherlanders are of "Dietse Bloed". Anyway...

Ah, the Groot-Nederlandsche Gedachte. Did you also enjoy the broadcasts of
Politieke Partijen that started with "Landgenoten!"..?

[Bert L.]

"triumvir" > schreef in bericht
om...
> "Mark South" > wrote in message
>...
> > "triumvir" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > >
> > > Actually, it's the Dutch that scrape their throat and disperse a royal
> > > amount of phlegm while conversing. If you (and others) had any clue
> >
> > Actually, old chap, it's somewhat harsh of you to be so down on your
audience
> > for having such a poor knowledge of Dutch when said audience consists
almost
> > entirely of UK types who read uk.rec.cycling.
> >
> > For example, I speak several languages and can read quite a lot of some
others.
> > But if I posted here in, say, Russian, I'd expect a bit of stick from
the
> > locals.
> >
> > > you'd know that even the "Dutch" (actually, if used correctly Dutch
> > > (Diets) refers to Netherlanders & Flemings. Except in English of
> > > course...) say that "Flemish" is much softer to the ear.
> >
> > The Flemish are Flemish because they chose not to be Dutch.
>
> Nope, both Flemings and Netherlanders are of "Dietse Bloed". Anyway...
>
> >
> > English has a lot of oddities that are peculiar to it. Borrowing words
> > wholesale for example, like "trek" and "derailleur" and "eigenvector".
>
> Derailleur originally being French.
>
> >
> > I gather, for another example, that Dutch doesn't have a single word to
describe
> > the peculiarly English concept of "gullible".
>
> Goedgelovig.
>


The single word we are most particularly proud of is "apartheid".
A Dutch tribute to the international book of words.

Bert L.

[Bert L.]

"Mark South" > schreef in bericht
...

> a quarter century in South Africa without managing to understand any
Afrikaans.
>
> The closest I ever came to speaking fluent Italian was a long summer
evening at
> a wedding party in a restaurant in Bologna. My speech and comprehension
kept
> improving until the wine ran out, unfortunately just before my grasp of
the
> language became permanent. By the next morning it was all gone.
> --
> Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen, On Parle Merde
>

Agree. When I go to a wedding party that takes the whole evening and I take
a few drinks (and a few extra), I speak almost any language of the world..
(or am I now misinterpreting your words)

Bert L.

[Ewoud Dronkert]

Bert L. wrote:
> The single word we are most particularly proud of is "apartheid".
> A Dutch tribute to the international book of words.

Watch out, this can get ugly.
http://www.google.com/groups?threadm=57jua0dde4t0lf796tva001j0344aemnre% 404ax.com

[Mark South]

"triumvir" > wrote in message
om...
> "Mark South" > wrote in message
>...
>
> > The Flemish are Flemish because they chose not to be Dutch.
>
> Nope, both Flemings and Netherlanders are of "Dietse Bloed". Anyway...

North Taunton is a part of Minehead already!

> > English has a lot of oddities that are peculiar to it. Borrowing words
> > wholesale for example, like "trek" and "derailleur" and "eigenvector".
>
> Derailleur originally being French.

And eigenvector being a mix of german and english.

> > I gather, for another example, that Dutch doesn't have a single word to
describe
> > the peculiarly English concept of "gullible".
>
> Goedgelovig.

That's a hook in your mouth.

> > > But you're British. I understand.
> >
> > It's a failing shared by about 60 million people.
> >
> > Now what does this have to do with Le Tour?
>
> Not anymore than Phlegm does with boating.

True. But you are the one who is annoyed with the British for not understanding
your language in a uk newsgroup. If I were to post in, say, nl.fiets (if that
exists) in Danish, would you think it reasonable of me to be angry that the
majority of readers speak Dutch and don't have a good grasp of Danish?
--
"A kilt opens up new possibilities."
- Gary D. Schwartz in rec.backcountry

[Ambrose Nankivell]

In ,
Mark South > typed:
> "Ambrose Nankivell" > wrote
> in message ...
>>
>> Sorry, ??? ??????.
>>
>> Well, actually I did understand. There are of course some languages
>> which are completely unrelated.
>
> Konichiwa!

Indeed, my question marks were also in an East Asian language, but somehow
they all turned into question marks in the posting. Grrr... It even says I'm
typing in Unicode (UTF-8) in the title bar.

> I only managed eight in that sample, and they all belong to the
> Latinic and Germanic families.

You didn't even cover all the language families of the UK, then.

A

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 10:40:55 +0200, "Bert L." > wrote in
message >:

>The single word we are most particularly proud of is "apartheid".
>A Dutch tribute to the international book of words.

But aardvark is so much nicer :-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

[Dave Kahn]

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 10:23:49 +0100, "Ambrose Nankivell"
> wrote:

>> I only managed eight in that sample, and they all belong to the
>> Latinic and Germanic families.
>
>You didn't even cover all the language families of the UK, then.

Don't forget that Chinese is now more widely spoken in the UK than
either Gaelic or Welsh.

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

[Dave Kahn]

On 12 Jun 2004 00:41:08 -0700, (triumvir) wrote:

>Dave Kahn > wrote in message >...
>> On 11 Jun 2004 03:58:51 -0700, (triumvir) wrote:

>> I was stretching the point somewhat in order to make a pun.
>
>A pun that is oh so boring, and oh so stereotypical that it's not
>really funny. It's like making a joke about the English by saying they
>wear kilts. Over and over. Funny only if you're ignorant, or only if
>you laugh *at* the person making the pun.

You need some mayonnaise with that chip on your shoulder.

>> >But you're British. I understand.
>>
>> I have managed to acquire French, Norwegian and Russian, but
>> admittedly the language spoken in the Netherlands remains Double Dutch
>> to me.
>
>As is traditionally the norm.

Yes. Most Englishmen speak Norwegian and Russian. As you say it's
traditional.

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

[Keith Willoughby]

Dave Kahn wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 10:23:49 +0100, "Ambrose Nankivell"
> > wrote:
>
>>> I only managed eight in that sample, and they all belong to the
>>> Latinic and Germanic families.
>>
>>You didn't even cover all the language families of the UK, then.
>
> Don't forget that Chinese is now more widely spoken in the UK than
> either Gaelic or Welsh.

JOOI, does that mean more speakers, or that Chinese is used more often
Welsh?

(The 2001 census said 20% of the 2.9m population of Wales could speak
Welsh, but of course the numbers that do speak Welsh as a matter of
course is probably quite a bit lower)

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
"And Gloria cackled, Let there be sparkle: and there was sparkle."

[Mark South]

"Dave Kahn" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 10:23:49 +0100, "Ambrose Nankivell"
> > wrote:
>
> >> I only managed eight in that sample, and they all belong to the
> >> Latinic and Germanic families.
> >
> >You didn't even cover all the language families of the UK, then.
>
> Don't forget that Chinese is now more widely spoken in the UK than
> either Gaelic or Welsh.

Consistency failure: either count both Welsh and Gaelic as Celtic family
languages or divide the Chinese family into its respective languages.

Remember there are marginal Chinese languages that have over 50 million
speakers!

Gxus revido,
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

[Roos Eisma]

Jon Senior <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> writes:

>I discovered that between my French, and my friend's Spanish /
>Portuguese, we could very rapidly learn Italian. I think that once you
>get to grips with one or two languages with a common route the rest
>follow. The difficulty is then in keeping them separate.

I'm still working on the crosslinks. I thought I was starting to think in
English, after living here for more than 2 years and going out with a sort
of english speaking guy [1] for a while. Then we went skiing in Norway and
whenever someone asked me what a certain Norwegian word meant the only
word that popped into my head was the Dutch one, and then it took often
surprisingly long to find the corresponding English one. I also switched
from Norwegian to Dutch instead of English a couple of times.

I think there's only room for 2 languages in my head, and I can't seem to
unload the Dutch module...

Roos

[1] he keeps using non-existent words which I sometimes only find out when
I use them at work and everybody looks confused....

[David Martin]

On 12/6/04 9:17 pm, in article , "Roos
Eisma" > wrote:


> I'm still working on the crosslinks. I thought I was starting to think in
> English, after living here for more than 2 years and going out with a sort
> of english speaking guy [1] for a while. Then we went skiing in Norway and
> whenever someone asked me what a certain Norwegian word meant the only
> word that popped into my head was the Dutch one, and then it took often
> surprisingly long to find the corresponding English one. I also switched
> from Norwegian to Dutch instead of English a couple of times.

I sometimes catch myself thinking in Norwegian which is a bit weird because
in general it has been described as 'understandable but a ****** awful
accent from who knows where' when I try to converse in it.

The odd french word pops into my thoughts as well but my french is even
worse..

There are two languages resident in anyones brain. Mother tongue and
foreign. As you were trying to switch from norwegian you obviously had to
switch to mother tongue rather than the other foreign.

...d

[Mark South]

"Roos Eisma" > wrote in message
...
> Jon Senior <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> writes:
>
> >I discovered that between my French, and my friend's Spanish /
> >Portuguese, we could very rapidly learn Italian. I think that once you
> >get to grips with one or two languages with a common route the rest
> >follow. The difficulty is then in keeping them separate.
>
> I'm still working on the crosslinks. I thought I was starting to think in
> English, after living here for more than 2 years and going out with a sort
> of english speaking guy [1] for a while. Then we went skiing in Norway and
> whenever someone asked me what a certain Norwegian word meant the only
> word that popped into my head was the Dutch one, and then it took often
> surprisingly long to find the corresponding English one. I also switched
> from Norwegian to Dutch instead of English a couple of times.

Thus leading to one of those wonderful "why are they all looking at me so
strangely?" moments.

There's also a surprise factor in language switching based on the fact that
English is pervasive as a source of technical terms. It's possible to aks for
an item using the correct French term and have a bikeshop type say, "Ah, vous
voulez un SPACER!" or some such.

> I think there's only room for 2 languages in my head, and I can't seem to
> unload the Dutch module...

I speak plausible traveller's German (ie, small vocabulary, simple grammar,
enough to order in restaurants, deal with hotel staff, ask directions and
understand the answers etc). BUT I once got my French module stuck in my brain
while in a restaurant in Mainz and could not find any German words AT ALL. I
eventually had to resort to English. This is rude, but expected behaviour from
English speakers, so I got my order in and they probably didn't spit in my
coffee very much.

> [1] he keeps using non-existent words which I sometimes only find out when
> I use them at work and everybody looks confused....

He makes up a whole bunch of stuff to post here and in uk.rec.walking too. But
we're all so nice that we humour him and never let on that he's been rumbled.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

[Roos Eisma]

"Mark South" > writes:

>He makes up a whole bunch of stuff to post here and in uk.rec.walking too. But
>we're all so nice that we humour him and never let on that he's been rumbled.

He probably made me up as well.

Roos

[Tony Raven]

Mark South wrote:
>
> I speak plausible traveller's German (ie, small vocabulary, simple grammar,
> enough to order in restaurants, deal with hotel staff, ask directions and
> understand the answers etc). BUT I once got my French module stuck in my
> brain while in a restaurant in Mainz and could not find any German words AT
> ALL. I eventually had to resort to English.
>

I (and others I know) have found French and Japanese to be mutually exclusive.
I always find myself responding Hai rather than Oui if someone attracts my
attention in French and then have to struggle to switch the French language
subroutines on.

Tony

[James Annan]

Tony Raven wrote:


> I (and others I know) have found French and Japanese to be mutually exclusive.
> I always find myself responding Hai rather than Oui if someone attracts my
> attention in French and then have to struggle to switch the French language
> subroutines on.

Is that really a French/Japanese thing? I had a lot of difficulty last
year on a trip to France, I couldn't open my mouth without some Japanese
coming out. I assumed it was just my own linguistic incompetence.
Interestingly, this year a repeat trip to France was much easier,
probably due to misplaced confidence in my abilities. But coming from
Japan, French really does sound like accented English anyway. It's
barely foreign at all!

James

[Jon Senior]

triumvir opined the following...
> A pun that is oh so boring, and oh so stereotypical that it's not
> really funny. It's like making a joke about the English by saying they
> wear kilts.

That would be the Scots... Or were you suggesting that the previous
posters had equally confused concepts of nationality?

> Over and over. Funny only if you're ignorant, or only if
> you laugh *at* the person making the pun.

Or if your sense of humour isn't broken?

> As is traditionally the norm.

My dad once asked a Dutch friend of his to teach him the language. He
responded "Don't bother. Hardly anyone speaks it. You're better off
sticking with English!".

Jon

[Simon Brooke]

in message >, Jon Senior
<jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> ('') wrote:

> triumvir opined the following...
>> A pun that is oh so boring, and oh so stereotypical that it's not
>> really funny. It's like making a joke about the English by saying
>> they wear kilts.
>
> That would be the Scots... Or were you suggesting that the previous
> posters had equally confused concepts of nationality?

I think that was the point that was being made, aksherly.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; It appears that /dev/null is a conforming XSL processor.

[Jon Senior]

Roos Eisma opined the following...
> Jon Senior <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> writes:
>
> >I discovered that between my French, and my friend's Spanish /
> >Portuguese, we could very rapidly learn Italian. I think that once you
> >get to grips with one or two languages with a common route the rest
> >follow. The difficulty is then in keeping them separate.
>
> I'm still working on the crosslinks. I thought I was starting to think in
> English, after living here for more than 2 years and going out with a sort
> of english speaking guy [1] for a while. Then we went skiing in Norway and
> whenever someone asked me what a certain Norwegian word meant the only
> word that popped into my head was the Dutch one, and then it took often
> surprisingly long to find the corresponding English one. I also switched
> from Norwegian to Dutch instead of English a couple of times.
>
> I think there's only room for 2 languages in my head, and I can't seem to
> unload the Dutch module...

When taking my GCSEs we had oral exams for modern languages. Spending 3
holidays a year in France, combined with a French exchange partner who
didn't like speaking English, meant that my French was pretty
respectable. So respectable that during my German oral exam, I was asked
a question, understood what it meant, and answered in fluent French. It
took a few seconds of the amused stare from my examiner, before I
realised what I had done. I then had to translate my answer from
French, into German (via English).

Jon

[Tony Raven]

James Annan wrote:
>
> Is that really a French/Japanese thing? I had a lot of difficulty last
> year on a trip to France, I couldn't open my mouth without some Japanese
> coming out. I assumed it was just my own linguistic incompetence.
>

Its not incompetence as I have exactly the same problem and so do others I
know. I usually think in the language I'm speaking rather than think in
English and translate it. Its alright if I concentrate but a moments lapse of
concentration and Japanese is flowing out. Causes some real confusion.

Tony

[Tony Raven]

Jon Senior wrote:
> I then had to translate my answer from
> French, into German (via English).

I hope you did better than Pedro Carolino and his translation of Portuguese
into English via French (without knowing either of the latter two languages)
in the cult hit "English as She is Spoke"

http://www.freewilliamsburg.com/may_2003/carolino.html


Tony

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 13:41:43 +0100, "Tony Raven"
> wrote in message
>:

>"English as She is Spoke"

Had anyone heard of this before The Book Of Heroic Failures, I wonder?

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

[Tony Raven]

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 13:41:43 +0100, "Tony Raven"
> > wrote in message
> >:
>
>> "English as She is Spoke"
>
> Had anyone heard of this before The Book Of Heroic Failures, I wonder?
>

Definitely. There isn't a decade since it was first published that it has
been out of print.

Tony

[Severus Est]

"Mark South" > wrote in message >...
> The Flemish are Flemish because they chose not to be Dutch.

Now I have to tell you something about the history of the Dutch
language and of the Low Countries. The first Dutch literature dates
back to the 11th-12th century and is mainly written in the Limburgish
dialects. In the 13th century, the county of Flanders was one of the
most important regions in Western Europe. A majority of Dutch texts of
this period is written in the Flemish dialects. During all of the
Middle Ages, the people of the Romance countries called the Low
Countries les Flandres (French), la Flandes (Spanish) or le Fiandre
(Italian) and their Germanic language flamand, flamenco of fiammingo.
In the 15th century, the centre of the Netherlands shifted to Brabant
and in the beginning of the 17th century to Holland. Since the
Burgundian period, the Low Countries were usually called Belgium in
Latin. The distinction between Netherlands and Belgium dates only back
to 1830: the United Kingdom of the Netherlands (1815-1830) under King
William I was called Verenigd Koninkrijk der Nederlanden in Dutch and
Royaume-Uni des Belgiques in French. The Germanic-speaking inhabitants
of the Low Countries called their language dietsch or duytsch, from
the old Germanic word þeoda (people). It was the language of the
common people, as opposed to Latin and walsch (French), the language
of the major part of the nobility. It is from duytsch that the English
word Dutch is derived, as well as the German deutsch. Since the 16th
century, the language was usually called Nederduytsch in order to make
the difference with the (High) German spoken in Germany. It is only
since the middle of the 19th century that the language is generally
called Nederlands.

[Mark South]

"Roos Eisma" > wrote in message
...
> "Mark South" > writes:
>
> >He makes up a whole bunch of stuff to post here and in uk.rec.walking too.
But
> >we're all so nice that we humour him and never let on that he's been rumbled.
>
> He probably made me up as well.

If you aren't real I withdraw all previous withdrawals I have made of posts or
comments I made on the basis that you did or at least might have existed in both
a real and temporal sense.

And I want your new bike as compensation for mental anguish.
--
"Since you must keep improving, a $5 bike offers a lot more opportunities
to improve it, and can be improved cheaper. It's expensive to improve on
a $2000 bike." - Rick Onanian in rec.bicycles.tech

[Mark South]

"Severus Est" > wrote in message
om...
> "Mark South" > wrote in message
>...
> > The Flemish are Flemish because they chose not to be Dutch.
>
> Now I have to tell you something about the history of the Dutch
> language and of the Low Countries.

No, you don't. Really. Please don't trouble yourself.

Talk about bikes instead. Tell us how the Dutch retain the political will to
preserve cycle facilities and culture in the face of the motorcar onslaught.
Tell us why no one in the Low Countries wears a helmet.
--
"Since you must keep improving, a $5 bike offers a lot more opportunities
to improve it, and can be improved cheaper. It's expensive to improve on
a $2000 bike." - Rick Onanian in rec.bicycles.tech

[Ambrose Nankivell]

In ,
Mark South > typed:
> "Roos Eisma" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Mark South" > writes:
>>
>>> He makes up a whole bunch of stuff to post here and in
>>> uk.rec.walking too. But we're all so nice that we humour him and
>>> never let on that he's been rumbled.
>>
>> He probably made me up as well.
>
> If you aren't real I withdraw all previous withdrawals I have made of
> posts or comments I made on the basis that you did or at least might
> have existed in both a real and temporal sense.
>
> And I want your new bike as compensation for mental anguish.

Urm, actually, I'm sure there's a good reason I should have it. If you let
me have it, I'll think up a reason.

A

[Severus Est]

"Mark South" > wrote in message >...
> "Severus Est" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "Mark South" > wrote in message
> >...
> > > The Flemish are Flemish because they chose not to be Dutch.
> >
> > Now I have to tell you something about the history of the Dutch
> > language and of the Low Countries.
>
> No, you don't. Really. Please don't trouble yourself.

Too late, already did my doody. Really.

>
> Talk about bikes instead. Tell us how the Dutch retain the political will to
> preserve cycle facilities and culture in the face of the motorcar onslaught.
> Tell us why no one in the Low Countries wears a helmet.

Why should they wear a helmet on a stolen bike? Unless the helmet itself is stolen.

[Simon Brooke]

in message >, Severus
Est ') wrote:

> "Mark South" > wrote in message
> >...
>> The Flemish are Flemish because they chose not to be Dutch.
>
> During all of the
> Middle Ages, the people of the Romance countries called the Low
> Countries les Flandres (French), la Flandes (Spanish) or le Fiandre
> (Italian) and their Germanic language flamand, flamenco of fiammingo.

You learn something new every day. Does this mean that Flamenco is
really 'Flemish dancing'?

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; I'll have a proper rant later, when I get the time.

[Simon Brooke]

in message >, Severus
Est ') wrote:

> "Mark South" > wrote in message
> >...
>> Talk about bikes instead. Tell us how the Dutch retain the political
>> will to preserve cycle facilities and culture in the face of the
>> motorcar onslaught. Tell us why no one in the Low Countries wears a
>> helmet.
>
> Why should they wear a helmet on a stolen bike? Unless the helmet
> itself is stolen.

I thought it was the Germans who were the 'bicycle thieves'?

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; MS Windows: A thirty-two bit extension ... to a sixteen bit
;; patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a
;; four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that
;; can't stand one bit of competition -- anonymous

[MartinM]

Simon Brooke > wrote in message >...
> in message >, Severus
> Est ') wrote:
>
> > "Mark South" > wrote in message
> > >...
> >> The Flemish are Flemish because they chose not to be Dutch.
> >
> > During all of the
> > Middle Ages, the people of the Romance countries called the Low
> > Countries les Flandres (French), la Flandes (Spanish) or le Fiandre
> > (Italian) and their Germanic language flamand, flamenco of fiammingo.
>
> You learn something new every day. Does this mean that Flamenco is
> really 'Flemish dancing'?

Sounds like maraccas to me!

[Severus Est]

Simon Brooke > wrote in message >...
> in message >, Severus
> Est ') wrote:
>
> > "Mark South" > wrote in message
> > >...
> >> The Flemish are Flemish because they chose not to be Dutch.
> >
> > During all of the
> > Middle Ages, the people of the Romance countries called the Low
> > Countries les Flandres (French), la Flandes (Spanish) or le Fiandre
> > (Italian) and their Germanic language flamand, flamenco of fiammingo.
>
> You learn something new every day. Does this mean that Flamenco is
> really 'Flemish dancing'?

http://herso.freeservers.com/hist_wd.html

[Mark South]

"Ambrose Nankivell" > wrote in message
...
> In ,
> Mark South > typed:
> > "Roos Eisma" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> "Mark South" > writes:
> >>
> >>> He makes up a whole bunch of stuff to post here and in
> >>> uk.rec.walking too. But we're all so nice that we humour him and
> >>> never let on that he's been rumbled.
> >>
> >> He probably made me up as well.
> >
> > If you aren't real I withdraw all previous withdrawals I have made of
> > posts or comments I made on the basis that you did or at least might
> > have existed in both a real and temporal sense.
> >
> > And I want your new bike as compensation for mental anguish.
>
> Urm, actually, I'm sure there's a good reason I should have it. If you let
> me have it, I'll think up a reason.

I thin it's disgusting and in bad taste that you are so fixated on Roos's frame
:-)
--
"Do stairs, stairs, and more stairs,
wherever you can find them."
- Jim Roberts in rec.backcountry