road kill

[james]

last night, on the way home, at the top of Greenwich Park there was an
injured grey sqirrel writhing on the road. I ended up slowing and
cycling around it which was what other traffic was doing. Apart from
wondering who was driving in a park at a junction, in such a way as to
run over a sqirrel (I know they tend towards kamikaze nuttiness but
even so) I didin't do anything for which I feel rather guilty. I
think I should have contacted the park wardens/parks police office
(which is just by there) in the hope that they might have the means to
humanely dispatch the unhappy creature.

What would anyone else have done

best wishes
james

[Simonb]

james wrote:

> What would anyone else have done

Exactly what you did.

[elyob]

"Simonb" > wrote in message
.. .
> james wrote:
>
> > What would anyone else have done
>
> Exactly what you did.

Grey squirrels are vermin.

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

james wrote:

> last night, on the way home, at the top of Greenwich Park there was an
> injured grey sqirrel writhing on the road. I ended up slowing and
> cycling around [...] What would anyone else have done

Prolly stopped and killed it, being the kindest thing to do. Plus it might
have been one of the Evil Squirrels from the Nut Mines.

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

Victory is ours! Down with Eric the Half A Brain!

[Simonb]

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

> Plus it might have been one of the Evil Squirrels from the Nut Mines.

Bury the body or burn it? Or hang it high as a lesson to others?

[Mark Thompson]

> last night, on the way home, at the top of Greenwich Park there was an
> injured grey sqirrel writhing on the road.

> What would anyone else have done

Killed it.

[Colin Blackburn]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:25:25 GMT, elyob > wrote:

>
> "Simonb" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> james wrote:
>>
>> > What would anyone else have done
>>
>> Exactly what you did.
>
> Grey squirrels are vermin.

Odd term. Vermin describes animals that are destructive to crops, game
birds and domestic animals, ie animals that farmers and gamekeepers don't
like. Not sure the grey squirrel qualifies.

Colin

[Simonb]

Colin Blackburn wrote:

> Odd term. Vermin describes animals that are destructive to crops, game
> birds and domestic animals, ie animals that farmers and gamekeepers
> don't like. Not sure the grey squirrel qualifies.

KILL 'EM ALL!

Just to be on the safe side.

[Colin Blackburn]

On 11 Jun 2004 10:39:52 GMT, Mark Thompson
> wrote:

>> last night, on the way home, at the top of Greenwich Park there was an
>> injured grey sqirrel writhing on the road.
>
>> What would anyone else have done
>
> Killed it.

Last week a meadow pipit flew into our conservatory through an open door
and attempted to fly out through a closed window. While it was a bit dazed
it tried to fly out again, missing the door once again. It fell on its
back and went into spasm. 20 minutes later after being put on an outside
table it had recovered sufficiently to fly off to cover and within the
hour it was feeding in the garden again.

The last time I came off my bike I writhed around for a bit, luckily
someone checked if I was likely to recover before deciding not to stamp on
my head.

Colin

[Simonb]

Colin Blackburn wrote:

> The last time I came off my bike I writhed around for a bit, luckily
> someone checked if I was likely to recover before deciding not to
> stamp on my head.

Is this standard practice for paramedics these days? Trample the patient to
death if unlikely to recover?

I'll have to be more careful out there.

[Peter Clinch]

Colin Blackburn wrote:

> Odd term. Vermin describes animals that are destructive to crops, game
> birds and domestic animals, ie animals that farmers and gamekeepers
> don't like. Not sure the grey squirrel qualifies.

A pal of mine is a Parkie, and she regularly distresses the more
sensitive kids on school visits by describing grey squirrels along the
lines of "rat with good PR".

While visiting another pal who was working as a ranger in the Grand
Canyon, we were taking a stroll along the rim and came across a couple
of touroids feeding the squirrels next to a "please do not feed the
squirrels" sign. Dave (not in uniform) asked them to desist, they said
something about them being so cute and carried on. Dave tries #2
gambit: "Do you know that the squirrels in this park carry bubonic
plague?" (they do, fact fans!). That seemed to have more effect, Exit
touroids stage left.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[JohnB]

james wrote:
>
> last night, on the way home, at the top of Greenwich Park there was an
> injured grey sqirrel writhing on the road. I ended up slowing and
> cycling around it which was what other traffic was doing.

> What would anyone else have done

Probably the same, and then would have hoped someone would have
flattenned it.

I have a long-lasing memory of finding a rabbit with mixamatosis (sp) by
the road when I was cycling on my first round Britain ride as a young
lad. While I was looking at it a motorist pulled up and said it should
be killed.
He placed it under his rear wheel, and the memory I still have - and
still shiver at - is the sound of crunching bones as he reversed.

John B

[Dave Larrington]

Peter Clinch wrote:

> A pal of mine is a Parkie, and she regularly distresses the more
> sensitive kids on school visits by describing grey squirrels along the
> lines of "rat with good PR".

Grey squirrels have been known as "tree rats" by Larringtons since Time
Immemorial.

"And maybe we'll do In a squirrel or two, while we're poisoning pigeons in
the park." - Tom Lehrer

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[Dave Larrington]

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

> Prolly stopped and killed it, being the kindest thing to do. Plus it
> might have been one of the Evil Squirrels from the Nut Mines.

Yay! Oddly enough, the Chief Evil SCIENCE Squirrel was here yesterday, so
if James' injured squirrel was a touch on the portly side, swearing in
'melican and answering to the name of "Craig Lathrop"...

It appears that I am not to be made redundant after all, but rather to
receive a New Job with More Money and all the Womp Rats I can eat. AND I
get to trouser the fat bribe they gave me to stay an extra three months.
Yay!

<ob_bicycle>
That NoCom is starting to look like a good thing on which to waste^h^h^h^h^h
spend a Lot of Money
</ob_bicycle>

This does not alter the fakts, however. Squirrels are EVIL, kids. Just say
no.

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[Dave Larrington]

Simonb wrote:

> Is this standard practice for paramedics these days? Trample the
> patient to death if unlikely to recover?

I believe so. The evidence garnered from watching "Casualty" suggests that
it is directed by Quentin Tarantino ;-)

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

Dave Larrington wrote:

> It appears that I am not to be made redundant after all, but rather to
> receive a New Job with More Money and all the Womp Rats I can eat.

That sounds like the result of some singluarly productive Dialog to me...

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

Victory is ours! Down with Eric the Half A Brain!

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

Colin Blackburn wrote:

> The last time I came off my bike I writhed around for a bit, luckily
> someone checked if I was likely to recover before deciding not to
> stamp on my head.

Yebbut, if it had been Fat Eric or the Swamp Monster then stamping on the
head would have been the Right Thing, just as with a tree rat.

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

Victory is ours! Down with Eric the Half A Brain!

[Julian Symondson]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:40:29 +0100, Colin Blackburn
> wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:25:25 GMT, elyob > wrote:
>
>>
>> "Simonb" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>> james wrote:
>>>
>>> > What would anyone else have done
>>>
>>> Exactly what you did.
>>
>> Grey squirrels are vermin.
>
> Odd term. Vermin describes animals that are destructive to crops, game
> birds and domestic animals, ie animals that farmers and gamekeepers
> don't like. Not sure the grey squirrel qualifies.
>
> Colin
>

Squirrels ate my figs, my walnuts, my sweetcorn - I hate them.

--

J u l i a n

__o
_`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

[Graeme]

JohnB > wrote in :

> james wrote:
>>
>> last night, on the way home, at the top of Greenwich Park there was
>> an injured grey sqirrel writhing on the road. I ended up slowing and
>> cycling around it which was what other traffic was doing.
>
>> What would anyone else have done

Stamped on its head, but not enjoyed doing it. Grey squirrels are an
introduced species (from America) and they are doing a very succesful
job of ousting our native red squirrels as they are bigger and more
agressive. I share some of the other posters' sentiments, the only good
grey squirrel is a dead grey squirrel (when it's in the UK at least).


> I have a long-lasing memory of finding a rabbit with mixamatosis (sp)
> by the road when I was cycling on my first round Britain ride as a
> young lad. While I was looking at it a motorist pulled up and said it
> should be killed.
> He placed it under his rear wheel, and the memory I still have - and
> still shiver at - is the sound of crunching bones as he reversed.

I came across one in the Pentlands a few years back and was about to
stamp on it when my wife stopped me. It was only a defenceless rabbit
after all! Despite pointing out that it was suffering and it was liekly
to spread the disease to other rabbits causing them to suffer, she stood
her ground, or rather walked of in disgust at my idea and made it clear
I'd be in the bad books for months if I did it.

Rabbits are also a non-native species (introduced by the Normans, or was
it the Romans?) so, in my books, are prime candidates for eradication.
For one thing, it has been said that if it weren't for the large areas
of short grass and numerous holes they left around the Scottish
countryside, then the game of golf would never have been invented. So
they are indirectly responsible for Pringle jumpers, boring televised
competitions and Jimmy Tarbuck et al. Those are grounds for
extermination if ever there were!

Graeme

[Nick Kew]

In article >,
JohnB > writes:

> He placed it under his rear wheel, and the memory I still have - and
> still shiver at - is the sound of crunching bones as he reversed.

Nasty. Very nasty.

But compared to germ warfare like mixamatosis, not so nasty at all.
Which reminds me: why has all the meeja gone so quiet on the 'merkins
exempting themselves from the international treaties regarding
inspection of their bio-warfare labs? Looks like the war of terror
has successfully diverted attention from the real stories.

As for animals (alive) on the road, the last I recollect was a fox
which seem dazed but wasn't - as far as I could tell - any worse than
that. So I just moved it off the road for the best chance to recover,
or for nature to take its course.

--
Nick Kew

[Nathaniel Porter]

"Graeme" > wrote in message
4.51...
>
> Rabbits are also a non-native species (introduced by the Normans, or was
> it the Romans?) so, in my books, are prime candidates for eradication.
> For one thing, it has been said that if it weren't for the large areas
> of short grass and numerous holes they left around the Scottish
> countryside, then the game of golf would never have been invented. So
> they are indirectly responsible for Pringle jumpers, boring televised
> competitions and Jimmy Tarbuck et al. Those are grounds for
> extermination if ever there were!
>

Be careful what you wish for - do you *really* want more DIY programming on
BBC2? :-p

[Tony B]

> Rabbits are also a non-native species (introduced by the Normans, or was
> it the Romans?) so, in my books, are prime candidates for eradication.

Hopefully you don't cross the species barrier with that philosophy, no doubt
there will be a few peeps with French/Italian surnames hiding from you if
you do...

Tony B

[[Not Responding]]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:40:29 +0100, "Colin Blackburn"
> wrote:

>On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:25:25 GMT, elyob > wrote:
>
>>
>> "Simonb" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>> james wrote:
>>>
>>> > What would anyone else have done
>>>
>>> Exactly what you did.
>>
>> Grey squirrels are vermin.
>
>Odd term. Vermin describes animals that are destructive to crops, game
>birds and domestic animals, ie animals that farmers and gamekeepers don't
>like. Not sure the grey squirrel qualifies.

In my garden I have a row of hazel and a couple of walnut trees. I can
assure you that grey squirrels qualify as vermin by this definition.

My definition of vermin also covers grey, bushy tailed, sharp toothed
creatures that climb into your attic and proceed to remove every last
square millimetre of electrical insulation from your lighting circuit.

It also covers aforementioned vandals that go on to die in said attic
and then decompose into maggot heaven; the residents of which then
fall through the ceiling onto your bathroom floor. In the morning.
When it's dark. And you have bare feet.

By God, I hate squirrels.

[Dave Kahn]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:35:29 +0100, "Simonb"
> wrote:

>Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
>
>> Plus it might have been one of the Evil Squirrels from the Nut Mines.
>
>Bury the body or burn it? Or hang it high as a lesson to others?

Make it wear a helmet and apply a rotational force.

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

[David Martin]

On 11/6/04 2:48 pm, in article ,
"[Not Responding]" > wrote:

> In my garden I have a row of hazel and a couple of walnut trees. I can
> assure you that grey squirrels qualify as vermin by this definition.

<snip>

> By God, I hate squirrels.

I fortunately have moved to the land of the red squirrel which is much
cuter.

I have been somewhat antagonistic towards squirrels since walking in the US
a while back. One chewed through my pack. Another was bold enough to try to
steal my porridge. It was still on a lit gas stove at the time.

Definitely vermin. Unfortunately vermin with good PR. I have run over a rat
before though.

BTW [N R] : How did you get on yesterday? Sitting, standing or resting?

...d

[Simonb]

Dave Kahn wrote:

> Make it wear a helmet and apply a rotational force.

Surely not! We all know it is virtually impossible to sustain any kind of
injury whilst sporting such a device.

[Mark Thompson]

> A pal of mine is a Parkie, and she regularly distresses the more
> sensitive kids on school visits by describing grey squirrels along the
> lines of "rat with good PR".

People say that as if it makes 'em bad. Rats are lovely little things.
Kind of. They're like pigeons but they don't **** on your head.

[David Off]

Simon Brooke wrote:
>
> I would have cycled over its
> head and crushed its skull. Death is inevitable, but suffering is
> unnecessary.
>
sounds like the same logic used by london motorists wrt to cyclist

[David Off]

Graeme wrote:

> JohnB > wrote in :
>
> Grey squirrels are an
> introduced species (from America) and they are doing a very succesful
> job of ousting our native red squirrels as they are bigger and more
> agressive.

More pop-anti-grey-squirrel PR. You could say that humans, dogs or cats
are an introduced species doing a good job of wiping out the native
wildlife.

[[Not Responding]]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:05:02 GMT, Simon Brooke >
wrote:

>in message >, elyob
') wrote:
>
>>
>> "Simonb" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>> james wrote:
>>>
>>> > What would anyone else have done
>>>
>>> Exactly what you did.
>>
>> Grey squirrels are vermin.
>
>That's no reason to leave it suffering. I would have cycled over its
>head and crushed its skull. Death is inevitable, but suffering is
>unnecessary.

I would have done this if I thought I wouldn't have some mad townie
try and bring a prosecution for animal cruelty.

[sdorrity]

ISTR reading about somebody deserving a Mention in Despatches for th
Darwin awards by giving their child a cookie or whatever and the
holding said child up to a cuddly brown bear for a photo opportunity

Grey squirrels are vermin, they damage forests and drive out re
squirrles not to mention allegedly taking eggs from nest

AIMH

Steve

Originally posted by Peter Clinch Colin Blackburn wrote

A pal of mine is a Parkie, and she regularly distresses the mor
sensitive kids on school visits by describing grey squirrels along th
lines of "rat with good PR"

While visiting another pal who was working as a ranger in the Gran
Canyon, we were taking a stroll along the rim and came across a coupl
of touroids feeding the squirrels next to a "please do not feed th
squirrels" sign. Dave (not in uniform) asked them to desist, they sai
something about them being so cute and carried on. Dave tries #2 gambit
"Do you know that the squirrels in this park carry bubonic plague?
(they do, fact fans!). That seemed to have more effect, Exit touroid
stage left

Pete


-

[Robert Bruce]

mae > wedi ysgrifennu:
> Graeme wrote:
>
>> JohnB > wrote in :
>>
>> Grey squirrels are an
>> introduced species (from America) and they are doing a very succesful
>> job of ousting our native red squirrels as they are bigger and more
>> agressive.
>
> More pop-anti-grey-squirrel PR. You could say that humans, dogs or
> cats are an introduced species doing a good job of wiping out the
> native wildlife.

This was covered a few days ago on a Radio 4 nature programme. The basics
are that red squirrels are rubbish - they don't even eat stuff that British
woodland has in abundance such as acorns. A Barbie doll set lose in the wild
would probably have a competitive advantage. In addition, greys are immune
to one particular disease that's lethal to reds.

In any case, if you've ever seen one close up (the pine forests at Formby in
Merseyside is a good place in traditional roadie terretory) you'll know that
they're scrawny little things and not so cute as you'd expect.

--
Rob

Please keep conversations in the newsgroup so that all may contribute
and benefit.

[Trevor Barton]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:42:35 +0200, David Off wrote:
> Graeme wrote:
>
>> JohnB > wrote in :
>>
>> Grey squirrels are an
>> introduced species (from America) and they are doing a very succesful
>> job of ousting our native red squirrels as they are bigger and more
>> agressive.
>
> More pop-anti-grey-squirrel PR. You could say that humans, dogs or cats
> are an introduced species doing a good job of wiping out the native
> wildlife.

Yeah, you have to draw a line somewhere, otherwise all species reduce
to being non-native because originally the earth was popilated only
by pond-slime precursors! 1000 years or so is plently long enough for
the rabbit to be considered native in the UK, but 100 years or so
is not long enough for it to be considered native in Australia. In
the former instance, it's integrated and in balance with the rest of
the ecosystem. In the latter case they're still causing problems for
truly loal wildlife, although I guess these days they could be
regarded as more or less "in balance", but only because native
wildlife is in much smaller numbers than previously, and rabbits
are still being "controlled" by man.

--
Trevor Barton

[Trevor Barton]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:04:33 +0100, Simonb wrote:
> Dave Kahn wrote:
>
>> Make it wear a helmet and apply a rotational force.
>
> Surely not! We all know it is virtually impossible to sustain any kind of
> injury whilst sporting such a device.

WHich is why it should have been wearing one in the first place.

--
Trevor Barton

[Peter Clinch]

Mark Thompson wrote:

> People say that as if it makes 'em bad. Rats are lovely little things.
> Kind of. They're like pigeons but they don't **** on your head.

Domesticated pet rats are lovely little things. Wild ones are, OTOH,
distinctly unpleasant wee *******s by and large.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Peter Clinch]

Robert Bruce wrote:

> This was covered a few days ago on a Radio 4 nature programme. The basics
> are that red squirrels are rubbish - they don't even eat stuff that British
> woodland has in abundance such as acorns.

But they're primarily adapted to native Scots Pine woods, and do quite
well in them 'cause the greys are too heavy to get at the munchies therein.
"British woodland" isn't quite as uniform a medium as you infer.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[james]

what to do with injured squirrel?
"various people wrote"
kill it
squirrels deserve all they get
etc


Don't get me wrong. I am no particular fan of squirrels nor an
anthropomorphic sentimentalist. After the fact, I considered the
option of dispatching it myself but felt that a combination of limited
equipment and appropriate behaviour in a public park and squeamishness
pretty much ruled this out for me.

Perhaps a more remote location would have stimulated me into action
because I would feel more comfortable dispatching the creature once
beyond the gaze of small children and because it is harder to duck an
issue when you are not part of a crowd.

I felt rather troubled by the condition of the injured animal not by
the idea that it was going to die sooner or later.

The bloodstain on the road this morning suggests to me that a
following vehicle ran the beast over eventually.

best wishes
james

[Mark South]

"Simon Brooke" > wrote in message
...
> in message >, elyob
> ') wrote:
>
> > "Simonb" > wrote in message
> > .. .
> >> james wrote:
> >>
> >> > What would anyone else have done
> >>
> >> Exactly what you did.
> >
> > Grey squirrels are vermin.
>
> That's no reason to leave it suffering. I would have cycled over its
> head and crushed its skull. Death is inevitable, but suffering is
> unnecessary.

I wonder whether squirrels would share the peculiarly human view that suffering
should be ended at the cost of shortening life? Anyone ever asked a squirrel?

Is it not possible that everybody wants to kill the squirrel as quickly as
possible so that their own discomfort at being reminded of their own mortality
can end as soon as possible?

Finally, it's easy to make snap decisions about wanting to eradicate vermin.
HOWEVER, every species occupies a niche. In places (like some tropical islands)
where squirrels have been eradicated, guess what has moved in to occupy their
niche? Yes, that's right, RATS! So beware of wishing to get rid of something
that would be replaced by something far worse.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

[Mark South]

"David Off" > wrote in message
...
> Simon Brooke wrote:
> >
> > I would have cycled over its
> > head and crushed its skull. Death is inevitable, but suffering is
> > unnecessary.
> >
> sounds like the same logic used by london motorists wrt to cyclist

"I don't like it, I'd be uncomfortable in its place, better crush it."

[Mark South]

"Mark Thompson" > wrote in message
93.157...
> > A pal of mine is a Parkie, and she regularly distresses the more
> > sensitive kids on school visits by describing grey squirrels along the
> > lines of "rat with good PR".
>
> People say that as if it makes 'em bad. Rats are lovely little things.

Rats are humans biggest enemy after ourselves and viruses. They are directly
responsible for a large amount of 3rd world poverty, destroying over 60% of
crops produced, and about doubling the cost of food production.

They also destroy biodiversity by waging relentless war on birds, insects, and
other mammals.

> Kind of. They're like pigeons but they don't **** on your head.

Yeah, but they pollute your food and your environment and in some cases they
spread airborne viruses that are fatal to humans. Lovely chaps.

Be careful what you wish for.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

[JohnB]

David Off wrote:
>
> Graeme wrote:
>
> > JohnB > wrote in :
> >
> > Grey squirrels are an
> > introduced species (from America) and they are doing a very succesful
> > job of ousting our native red squirrels as they are bigger and more
> > agressive.
>
> More pop-anti-grey-squirrel PR. You could say that humans, dogs or cats
> are an introduced species doing a good job of wiping out the native
> wildlife.

You could say that, but you wouldn't be replying to my post.

John B

[Lurch]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:03:52 GMT, Graeme
> wrote:


>
>Rabbits are also a non-native species (introduced by the Normans, or was
>it the Romans?) so, in my books, are prime candidates for eradication.

You might care to know then that the whole of the UK was declared a
"Rabbit Free Zone" (way back in the '50's I think) and that land
owners have a legal duty to control rabbit populations.

--
Mark

http://www.gunculture.net

"the subjects... may have arms for their defence"
English Bill of Rights

[JohnB]

Robert Bruce wrote:

>
> In any case, if you've ever seen one close up (the pine forests at Formby in
> Merseyside is a good place in traditional roadie terretory) you'll know that
> they're scrawny little things and not so cute as you'd expect.

They are still there?
I remeber being taken there when i was still in short trousers to see
them (over 40 mumble mumble years ago).
I had an aunt who lived in Formby and i had travelled up by steam train.

John B

[MartinM]

Peter Clinch > wrote in message >...
> Colin Blackburn wrote:
>
> > Odd term. Vermin describes animals that are destructive to crops, game
> > birds and domestic animals, ie animals that farmers and gamekeepers
> > don't like. Not sure the grey squirrel qualifies.
>
> A pal of mine is a Parkie, and she regularly distresses the more
> sensitive kids on school visits by describing grey squirrels along the
> lines of "rat with good PR".
>
> While visiting another pal who was working as a ranger in the Grand
> Canyon, we were taking a stroll along the rim and came across a couple
> of touroids feeding the squirrels next to a "please do not feed the
> squirrels" sign. Dave (not in uniform) asked them to desist, they said
> something about them being so cute and carried on. Dave tries #2
> gambit: "Do you know that the squirrels in this park carry bubonic
> plague?" (they do, fact fans!). That seemed to have more effect, Exit
> touroids stage left.

Tilgate park in Crawley has a really neat little wildlife centre with
wild (ish) red squirrels (AWWWW!); they can get out of their cage
through a hole which is too big for grey ones to get in and eat their
food, there are also squirrel feeders on the trees outside which have
a trapdoor, if grey squirrels try to get into them they are too heavy
and fall out, so they have all gone elsewhere and left the reds to
it.There are also albino ones in the wild, lack of greys keeps
predators away. Also some neat MTB trails.

[Robert Bruce]

mae > wedi ysgrifennu:
> Robert Bruce wrote:
>
>>
>> In any case, if you've ever seen one close up (the pine forests at
>> Formby in Merseyside is a good place in traditional roadie
>> terretory) you'll know that they're scrawny little things and not so
>> cute as you'd expect.
>
> They are still there?

Yes, they're still there. At least they were at this time last year.
Protected by the fact that there are no deciduous woods for many miles
around. Peter Clinch elsewhere in this thread explains that grey squirrels
don't like coniferous forests much.

> I remeber being taken there when i was still in short trousers to see
> them (over 40 mumble mumble years ago).
> I had an aunt who lived in Formby and i had travelled up by steam
> train.

An Aunt in Formby, now there's crachach. The railway is now part of
MerseyRail's Northern Line and all of the trains smell of ****.

--
Rob

Please keep conversations in the newsgroup so that all may contribute
and benefit.

[JohnB]

Robert Bruce wrote:

> An Aunt in Formby, now there's crachach. The railway is now part of
> MerseyRail's Northern Line and all of the trains smell of ****.

Perhaps that's why she moved to Richmond.
But then the trains are SWT and smell of worse :-(

John B

[Callas]

wrote:
> What would anyone else have done

I would have liked to have killed the animal, because there's no way
it'll recover from such an injury and it's in misery.

But how to do it?

I've wondered about this problem, too.

I cycle with a minimal set of bike tools. I wonder if it's possible to
drive a screwdriver into the animals brain to provide a quick and
painless death?

--
Callas

[Simonb]

Callas wrote:

> I cycle with a minimal set of bike tools. I wonder if it's possible
> to drive a screwdriver into the animals brain to provide a quick and
> painless death?

If I weren't such a coward, I'd wring its neck. Isn't that the done thing?

[JohnB]

Callas wrote:
>
> I cycle with a minimal set of bike tools. I wonder if it's possible to
> drive a screwdriver into the animals brain to provide a quick and
> painless death?

Can't you test it on a petrolhead first? ;-)

John B

[John Hearns]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:03:52 +0000, Graeme wrote:

>
> Rabbits are also a non-native species (introduced by the Normans, or was
> it the Romans?) so, in my books, are prime candidates for eradication.
> For one thing, it has been said that if it weren't for the large areas
> of short grass and numerous holes they left around the Scottish
> countryside, then the game of golf would never have been invented.

With respect, you are wrong I think.
The original game of golf was played on links courses,
which are the areas of dunes and grass beside the sea.
The bunkers were sand holes in the dunes, and the holes would have been
areas blown out by the wind.
I might be wrong - but I've never heard that the holes were rabbit holes.

[Simon Brooke]

in message >, Mark South
') wrote:

> "Simon Brooke" > wrote in message
> ...
>> in message >, elyob
>> ') wrote:
>>
>> That's no reason to leave it suffering. I would have cycled over its
>> head and crushed its skull. Death is inevitable, but suffering is
>> unnecessary.
>
> I wonder whether squirrels would share the peculiarly human view that
> suffering
> should be ended at the cost of shortening life? Anyone ever asked a
> squirrel?
>
> Is it not possible that everybody wants to kill the squirrel as
> quickly as possible so that their own discomfort at being reminded of
> their own mortality can end as soon as possible?
>
> Finally, it's easy to make snap decisions about wanting to eradicate
> vermin.

I didn't say anything about vermin. I wouldn't leave anything which was
mortally injured to die a slow death, no matter how cute it was. If it
can't recover, kill it quick. If it might recover with care and
treatment but you're not, for one reason or another, prepared to offer
that care and treatment, kill it quick. Leaving creatures to suffer is
an abrogation of moral responsibility.

Of course I don't know for certain the squirrels don't enjoy dying
slowly in pain unable to drag themselves to a place of safety. Maybe
they do. But on the balance of probabilities I'm prepared to assume
they don't.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

---===***<<< This space to let! >>>***===---
Yes! You, too, can SPAM in the Famous Brooke Rotating .sig!
---===***<<< Only $300 per line >>>***===---

[Simon Brooke]

in message >, Robert Bruce
') wrote:


> In any case, if you've ever seen one close up (the pine forests at
> Formby in Merseyside is a good place in traditional roadie terretory)
> you'll know that they're scrawny little things and not so cute as
> you'd expect.

I'm fortunate to live in one of those places where reds are still
common, so I see them often and photograph them now and again, as here
<URL:http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/tmp/squirrel1-detail.jpg>.

I defy you to say he's either scrawny or not cute.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Error 1109: There is no message for this error

[Carol Hague]

Dave Larrington > wrote:


> It appears that I am not to be made redundant after all, but rather to
> receive a New Job with More Money and all the Womp Rats I can eat. AND I
> get to trouser the fat bribe they gave me to stay an extra three months.
> Yay!

Indeed! Splendiferous news!

Except possibly for the Womp Rats which don't sound particularly
appetising, unless you're a Jawa.

Have some Conga Rats instead! :-)

--
Carol
"You wouldn't like me when I'm happy." - Angel

[David Martin]

On 11/6/04 9:37 pm, in article ,
"Gonzalez" > wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 18:00:13 +0100, Callas >
> wrote:

>> wrote:
>>> What would anyone else have done

>> I would have liked to have killed the animal, because there's no way
>> it'll recover from such an injury and it's in misery.

>> But how to do it?

>> I've wondered about this problem, too.

> So, in this case, the thing to do would be to stick a small allen key
> up the hapless squirrel's nose and bang it in hard with a locally
> available rock.

Use the technique used for killing rats in the lab..

grab the tail where it exits the body and swing rapidly , bringing the neck
in contact with a hard edge (top tube of the bike would do.) This will break
the neck and kill the creature instantly.

...d

[Simon Brooke]

in message >, Trevor Barton
') wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:42:35 +0200, David Off wrote:
>> More pop-anti-grey-squirrel PR. You could say that humans, dogs or
>> cats are an introduced species doing a good job of wiping out the
>> native wildlife.
>
> Yeah, you have to draw a line somewhere, otherwise all species reduce
> to being non-native because originally the earth was popilated only
> by pond-slime precursors! 1000 years or so is plently long enough for
> the rabbit to be considered native in the UK, but 100 years or so
> is not long enough for it to be considered native in Australia. In
> the former instance, it's integrated and in balance with the rest of
> the ecosystem.

I would not agree in the least. Mind you, it's possible that rabbits
would be in balance with the rest of the ecosystem if people didn't go
around killing their natural predators. But since they do, rabbits are
in suitable habitats a hugely destructive plague, eroding hillsides and
destroying forests. Mind you, the same can be said of sheep (which also
aren't native but have been here for far longer) and red deer (which
probably are native by any reasonable definition).

Bring back the wolf, I says. And I'm not joking.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; better than your average performing pineapple

[James Annan]

Gonzalez wrote:


> A standard method of suicide in Oxbridge's examination halls is to
> stick a pencil up your nose then slam your face, pencil first, down on
> the table. I have heard that it is a quick and painless method of
> killing oneself, but how anyone knows, I am not quite sure.

I thought it was a standard story for the students to amuse themselves with.

James

[Mark McN]

Reply to Dave Larrington
> Yay! Oddly enough, the Chief Evil SCIENCE Squirrel was here yesterday, so
> if James' injured squirrel was a touch on the portly side, swearing in
> 'melican and answering to the name of "Craig Lathrop"...
>
> It appears that I am not to be made redundant after all, but rather to
> receive a New Job with More Money and all the Womp Rats I can eat
>

Assuming that the Evil Squirrels don't read u.r.c. ;-)


--
Mark, UK.
We hope to hear him swear, we love to hear him squeak,
We like to see him biting fingers in his horny beak.

[Ambrose Nankivell]

In ,
Gonzalez > typed:
> A standard method of suicide in Oxbridge's examination halls is to
> stick a pencil up your nose then slam your face, pencil first, down on
> the table. I have heard that it is a quick and painless method of
> killing oneself, but how anyone knows, I am not quite sure.

http://www.snopes.com/college/exam/pencils.asp

[chris French]

In message >, Graeme
> writes
>Grey squirrels are an
>introduced species (from America) and they are doing a very succesful
>job of ousting our native red squirrels as they are bigger and more
>agressive.

While it is true that the Grey has lead to the loss of the Red in most
areas of the UK, it's not because they are more aggressive and 'drive'
them out.

The main reason is that Greys are much less fussy eaters, they have a
much wider diet, Reds have a more restricted diet, so the Greys
basically out compete the Reds for food in most areas -though Reds
seems to prefer Pine woods, so do better there.

--
Chris French, Leeds

[chris French]

In message >, Callas
> writes
wrote:
>> What would anyone else have done
>
>I would have liked to have killed the animal, because there's no way
>it'll recover from such an injury and it's in misery.
>
>But how to do it?
>
>I've wondered about this problem, too.
>
>I cycle with a minimal set of bike tools. I wonder if it's possible to
>drive a screwdriver into the animals brain to provide a quick and
>painless death?

For a squirrel, if you stamp on it's skull you will crush it easily
enough and kill it instantly, but it's a bit messy and unpleasant.

Or pick it up and pull it's neck - though if you've not done it before
(I used to breed rabbits so had plenty of practise) it's probably not
that easy to do.

For a squirrel, picking it up and whacking it's head/neck down on the
kerb or whatever, would also do the job.
--
Chris French, Leeds

[Nick Kew]

In article >,
Gonzalez > writes:

> A standard method of suicide in Oxbridge's examination halls is to
> stick a pencil up your nose then slam your face, pencil first, down on
> the table.

*boggle*

So why do the powers-that-be concern themselves with such conventional
hazards as the tower at my old college (Girton), which has been known
to be closed around exam time?

> I have heard that it is a quick and painless method of
> killing oneself, but how anyone knows, I am not quite sure.

Well, if you've witnessed a death without associated agony ...

> up the hapless squirrel's nose and bang it in hard with a locally
> available rock.

A locally-available rock could perhaps take a more direct approach.

--
Nick Kew

[Graeme]

John Hearns > wrote in
:

> I might be wrong - but I've never heard that the holes were rabbit holes.
>

So might I, but when has anyone on URC let the truth get in the way of a
good story? :-)

Graeme

[Graeme]

"Tony B" > wrote in
:

> Hopefully you don't cross the species barrier with that philosophy, no
> doubt there will be a few peeps with French/Italian surnames hiding
> from you if you do...
>

With my mother having the maiden name of Fleming, I'd be stamping on my own
head (I've tried it, I'm not that flexible). :-)

Graeme

[[Not Responding]]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 18:06:21 +0100, "Simonb"
> wrote:

>Callas wrote:
>
>> I cycle with a minimal set of bike tools. I wonder if it's possible
>> to drive a screwdriver into the animals brain to provide a quick and
>> painless death?
>
>If I weren't such a coward, I'd wring its neck. Isn't that the done thing?
>

Unless you're familiar with handling animals, I'd be wary of picking
up a frightened, in pain and sharp toothed creature like a squirrel.

Better use your size 10s.

[Mark Thompson]

> Rats are humans biggest enemy after ourselves and viruses. They are
> directly responsible for a large amount of 3rd world poverty,
> destroying over 60% of crops produced, and about doubling the cost of
> food production.
>
> They also destroy biodiversity by waging relentless war on birds,
> insects, and other mammals.
>
>> Kind of. They're like pigeons but they don't **** on your head.
>
> Yeah, but they pollute your food and your environment and in some
> cases they spread airborne viruses that are fatal to humans. Lovely
> chaps.
>
> Be careful what you wish for.

Eh? Lighten up - I didn't wish for anything. Ps, do you have some kind of
propaganda machine. Your post reads like you've just tapped in 'rats' and
got some vague propaganda ********.

[Pete White]

[Not Responding] wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:05:02 GMT, Simon Brooke >
> wrote:
>
>
>>in message >, elyob
') wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Simonb" > wrote in message
.. .
>>>
>>>>james wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>What would anyone else have done
>>>>
>>>>Exactly what you did.
>>>
>>>Grey squirrels are vermin.
>>
>>That's no reason to leave it suffering. I would have cycled over its
>>head and crushed its skull. Death is inevitable, but suffering is
>>unnecessary.
>
>
> I would have done this if I thought I wouldn't have some mad townie
> try and bring a prosecution for animal cruelty.
>
>

Have your heared about Trowbridge's pigeon problem?

Basically, the pigeons are are fast taking over the town, ****ting in
the streets, getting in the way etc.

There's two little old ladies who go about in the evenings feeding them.
No-one can stop them as feeding pigeons aint against the law.

The town council propose a cull. The Wiltshire Times reports it.

You know what happens?

People complain!

Anybody out there in URCland like roast pigeon? Come to Trowbridge with
an air rifle and a doggy-bag and get some of our blasted pigeons!

Please!

[Pete White]

james wrote:

> last night, on the way home, at the top of Greenwich Park there was an
> injured grey sqirrel writhing on the road. I ended up slowing and
> cycling around it which was what other traffic was doing. Apart from
> wondering who was driving in a park at a junction, in such a way as to
> run over a sqirrel (I know they tend towards kamikaze nuttiness but
> even so) I didin't do anything for which I feel rather guilty. I
> think I should have contacted the park wardens/parks police office
> (which is just by there) in the hope that they might have the means to
> humanely dispatch the unhappy creature.
>
> What would anyone else have done
>
> best wishes
> james

Blood thirsty lot around here, aren't we?!

[Mark South]

"Pete White" > wrote in message
...
> james wrote:
>
> > last night, on the way home, at the top of Greenwich Park there was an
> > injured grey sqirrel writhing on the road. I ended up slowing and
> > cycling around it which was what other traffic was doing. Apart from
> > wondering who was driving in a park at a junction, in such a way as to
> > run over a sqirrel (I know they tend towards kamikaze nuttiness but
> > even so) I didin't do anything for which I feel rather guilty. I
> > think I should have contacted the park wardens/parks police office
> > (which is just by there) in the hope that they might have the means to
> > humanely dispatch the unhappy creature.
> >
> > What would anyone else have done
>
> Blood thirsty lot around here, aren't we?!

Just toe the party line and there won't be any trouble. Start your chant now:

"Death to helmet wearers, death to pavement cyclists, death to red-light
jumpers, death to squirrels, death to buzzards, death to shops that don't allow
bikes, death to the BBC, death to motorists, death to children, death to safer
cycling courses, death to everyone else that got left out accidentally."

Repeat every five minutes.
--
"If the outdoors is a gym with dirt on the ground, or a place to
exercise, or to show off, and nothing more, you don't get it."
- Gary D. Schwartz in rec.backcountry

[Mark South]

"Pete White" > wrote in message
...
> Anybody out there in URCland like roast pigeon?

Yum :-)

> Come to Trowbridge with an air rifle

....and be blown away by the antiterrorism squad as an Al Quaeda supporter.

> and a doggy-bag and get some of our blasted pigeons!

Hmm. You appear to be confusing wood pigeons (slurp) with rock pigeons (retch).
--
"Do stairs, stairs, and more stairs,
wherever you can find them."
- Jim Roberts in rec.backcountry

[Daniel Barlow]

"Mark South" > writes:

> Just toe the party line and there won't be any trouble. Start your
> chant now:
>

> "Death to helmet wearers, death to pavement cyclists, death to
> red-light jumpers, death to squirrels, death to buzzards, death to
> shops that don't allow bikes, death to the BBC, death to motorists,
> death to children, death to safer cycling courses, death to everyone
> else that got left out accidentally."

Just for reference, you missed bibshort wearers, users of sub-£200
bikes, disc brakes that don't require a second mortgage, and
pedestrians. Also anyone who posts to uk.transport or exceeds speed
limits (there may be overlap in those last two groups)


-dan

--
"please make sure that the person is your friend before you confirm"

[Dave Kahn]

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 05:46:24 GMT, Graeme
> wrote:

>"Tony B" > wrote in
:
>
>> Hopefully you don't cross the species barrier with that philosophy, no
>> doubt there will be a few peeps with French/Italian surnames hiding
>> from you if you do...
>>
>
>With my mother having the maiden name of Fleming, I'd be stamping on my own
>head (I've tried it, I'm not that flexible). :-)

I should be alright, Kahn being an old Anglo Saxon name after all.
:-)


--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

[Mark South]

"Daniel Barlow" > wrote in message
...
> "Mark South" > writes:
>
> > Just toe the party line and there won't be any trouble. Start your
> > chant now:
>
> > "Death to helmet wearers, death to pavement cyclists, death to
> > red-light jumpers, death to squirrels, death to buzzards, death to
> > shops that don't allow bikes, death to the BBC, death to motorists,
> > death to children, death to safer cycling courses, death to everyone
> > else that got left out accidentally."
>
> Just for reference, you missed bibshort wearers, users of sub-£200
> bikes, disc brakes that don't require a second mortgage, and
> pedestrians. Also anyone who posts to uk.transport or exceeds speed
> limits (there may be overlap in those last two groups)

Those were the "everyone else that got left out accidentally" :-)

There was a time, not so long ago, when the list looked as if it would also have
to include people on non-recumbent bikes.
--
"To ... just not care that there are naked triathletes running
across your lawn, that's just a waste of exhibitionism."
- Kibo, in alt.religion.kibology

[Mark McN]

Reply to Dave Kahn
> >With my mother having the maiden name of Fleming, I'd be stamping on my own
> >head (I've tried it, I'm not that flexible). :-)
>
> I should be alright, Kahn being an old Anglo Saxon name after all.
> :-)
>

Anglo-Saxons? Normans? Romans?

Tchuh - late-comers, the lot of 'em... ;-)

--
Mark, UK.
We hope to hear him swear, we love to hear him squeak,
We like to see him biting fingers in his horny beak.

[David Off]

Simon Brooke wrote:

>
> Bring back the wolf, I says. And I'm not joking.
>

Wolfs... pha, bring back bears I say.

[Pete White]

Mark South wrote:
> "Pete White" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Anybody out there in URCland like roast pigeon?
>
>
> Yum :-)
>
>
>>Come to Trowbridge with an air rifle
>
>
> ...and be blown away by the antiterrorism squad as an Al Quaeda supporter.
>

Not around here you won't, Trowbridge has the biggest Morrocan community
outside of London.

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 18:28:48 +0200, "Mark South"
> wrote in message
>:

>There was a time, not so long ago, when the list looked as if it would also have
>to include people on non-recumbent bikes.

I was of assuming that had already been accepted so went without
saying.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

[Mark South]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 18:28:48 +0200, "Mark South"
> > wrote in message
> >:
>
> >There was a time, not so long ago, when the list looked as if it would also
have
> >to include people on non-recumbent bikes.
>
> I was of assuming that had already been accepted so went without
> saying.

Nice try, but I'm sorry, the syntax in my sentence is still far clumsier than
yours :-)
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

[Trevor Barton]

Simon Brooke > wrote:
> in message >, Trevor Barton
> ') wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:42:35 +0200, David Off wrote:
>>> More pop-anti-grey-squirrel PR. You could say that humans, dogs or
>>> cats are an introduced species doing a good job of wiping out the
>>> native wildlife.
>>
>> Yeah, you have to draw a line somewhere, otherwise all species reduce
>> to being non-native because originally the earth was popilated only
>> by pond-slime precursors! 1000 years or so is plently long enough for
>> the rabbit to be considered native in the UK, but 100 years or so
>> is not long enough for it to be considered native in Australia. In
>> the former instance, it's integrated and in balance with the rest of
>> the ecosystem.
>
> I would not agree in the least. Mind you, it's possible that rabbits
> would be in balance with the rest of the ecosystem if people didn't go
> around killing their natural predators. But since they do, rabbits are
> in suitable habitats a hugely destructive plague, eroding hillsides and
> destroying forests. Mind you, the same can be said of sheep (which also
> aren't native but have been here for far longer) and red deer (which
> probably are native by any reasonable definition).

Well yes, but then you can apply the same logic to man, who is
inarguably the worst species for screwing up the habitat. We wouldn't
have the habitat we do now in the British Isles if it weren't for people,
and most of it was done in the last thousand years, too. Should we
eradicate ourselves?

It's probably an arguable point.

<half serious>
However, man is also a (globally) native species. Like all species, we
have an effect on our environment. Is what we are doing to the planet
any less "natural" than the effect of wolves on the rabbit population?
Or the way rabbits affect forests and hillsides?
</half serious>

--
Trev

[Graeme]

Mark Thompson > wrote in
93.157:

> People say that as if it makes 'em bad. Rats are lovely little things.
> Kind of. They're like pigeons but they don't **** on your head.

We've got some living in our roof space, as do most of our neighbours
apparently (the hazards of living near a creek in winter). At first we
thought it might be a possum as there was so much noise. The idea of a
possum kind of appealed to me, then I saw a possum in the wild and it
looked just like a massive rat with friendly eyes. I'm sure if I'd have
poked my head up into the roof space and seen one I'd have freaked at the
size of Australian rats and fallen off the ladder :-O

Graeme

[Tony Raven]

Graeme wrote:
>
> We've got some living in our roof space, as do most of our neighbours
> apparently (the hazards of living near a creek in winter). At first we
> thought it might be a possum as there was so much noise. The idea of a
> possum kind of appealed to me, then I saw a possum in the wild and it
> looked just like a massive rat with friendly eyes. I'm sure if I'd have
> poked my head up into the roof space and seen one I'd have freaked at the
> size of Australian rats and fallen off the ladder :-O
>

Its said that in London you are never more than 3m away from a rat (the animal
not the human kind who are much more abundant than that even)

Tony

[Graeme]

Pete White > wrote in news:40cb0278$0
:

> Have your heared about Trowbridge's pigeon problem?
>
> Basically, the pigeons are are fast taking over the town, ****ting in
> the streets, getting in the way etc.
>

Sounds like the gull problem in Berwick Upon Tweed (and probably many other
coastal towns). The cull proposal is raised every few years, and I think it
does go ahead (but has little effect). Round about these times the local
paper is full of soft hearted (& headed) wallies whining about the sanctity
of all life. These are probably the same numpties who drop their fish and
chips all over the place which is one of the major factors in the gull
population explosion. After you've been crapped on a few times by a large
herring gull, you'd probably be willing to ring their necks one by one :-/


Graeme

[Graeme]

"Dave Larrington" > wrote in news:2itj86Fqo2dpU2@uni-
berlin.de:

> Squirrels are EVIL, kids. Just say no.

I'm down to 15 a day. They say you won't get hooked, but once you start the
craving builds rapidly. I still get twitchy and hop around the place if I
go cold turkey :-/

Graeme

[Graeme]

Dave Kahn > wrote in
:

> I should be alright, Kahn being an old Anglo Saxon name after all.

What? Old Genghis was Anglo-Saxon was he? That explains the stroppy
attitude of some English football supporters then :-)

Graeme

[Carol Hague]

Simon Brooke > wrote:


> Bring back the wolf, I says. And I'm not joking.

There was an article about that on the bbc news site :-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2065794.stm

I suspect that they would either be shot by farmers, run over or catch
nasty domestic dog diseases though.

--
Carol
"Nothing is so virtuous as a bicycle."
- Dorothy L. Sayers, _Five Red Herrings_

[Nick Kew]

In article >,
Graeme > writes:

> At first we
> thought it might be a possum as there was so much noise.

Any wildlife in your loft will mean tremendous noise. Whoever coined
the phrase "quiet as a mouse" obviously had never lived under them.

--
Nick Kew

Nick's manifesto: http://www.htmlhelp.com/~nick/

[Mark Thompson]

>> Bring back the wolf, I says. And I'm not joking.
>
> There was an article about that on the bbc news site :-
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2065794.stm
>
> I suspect that they would either be shot by farmers, run over or catch
> nasty domestic dog diseases though.

It would give the local hunt a bit of a shock...

[Mark Thompson]

> After you've
> been crapped on a few times by a large herring gull, you'd probably be
> willing to ring their necks one by one :-/

Eh? How many necks do your gulls have? If you've got hydras flapping
about the place & crapping on your head its probably a good idea to leave
'em at it and be thankful that thats all they're doing.

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 07:13:16 GMT, Graeme
> wrote in message
>:

>> I should be alright, Kahn being an old Anglo Saxon name after all.
>What? Old Genghis was Anglo-Saxon was he?

Mr Prosser was certainly a direct descendant.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

[Simon Brooke]

in message >, Mark McN
' ) wrote:

> Reply to Dave Kahn
>> >With my mother having the maiden name of Fleming, I'd be stamping on
>> >my own head (I've tried it, I'm not that flexible). :-)
>>
>> I should be alright, Kahn being an old Anglo Saxon name after all.
>
> Anglo-Saxons? Normans? Romans?
>
> Tchuh - late-comers, the lot of 'em... ;-)

Watch out though - the Romans were here before the Scots. For very
precise values of here, the Romans had come and gone a thousand years
before we became part of Scotland. But then they were only here for
about twenty years.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Morning had broken, and we had run out of gas for the welding torch.

[Jon Senior]

Mark South opined the following...
> Rats are humans biggest enemy after ourselves and viruses. They are directly
> responsible for a large amount of 3rd world poverty, destroying over 60% of
> crops produced, and about doubling the cost of food production.

I think that Barclays Bank is probably responsible for a greater
proportion of 3rd world poverty. Perhaps if we agreed to "drop the
debt" and allow them to return to subsistance farming, they could
survive considerably better than they do now.

> They also destroy biodiversity by waging relentless war on birds, insects, and
> other mammals.

I think that for humans to criticise any animal for damaging
biodiversity is hypocrisy on a grand scale. Rabbits in Australia? The
Dodo? Smallpox? We don't hold a good track record on leaving no mark.

> > Kind of. They're like pigeons but they don't **** on your head.
>
> Yeah, but they pollute your food and your environment and in some cases they
> spread airborne viruses that are fatal to humans. Lovely chaps.

That description applies equally (If not more so) to humans. Lovely
chaps indeed.

Jon

[Jon Senior]

Graeme opined the following...
> Sounds like the gull problem in Berwick Upon Tweed (and probably many other
> coastal towns). The cull proposal is raised every few years, and I think it
> does go ahead (but has little effect). Round about these times the local
> paper is full of soft hearted (& headed) wallies whining about the sanctity
> of all life. These are probably the same numpties who drop their fish and
> chips all over the place which is one of the major factors in the gull
> population explosion. After you've been crapped on a few times by a large
> herring gull, you'd probably be willing to ring their necks one by one :-/

Only if they were stunned. That's one vicious looking beak.

Jon

[Jon Senior]

David Martin opined the following...
> Use the technique used for killing rats in the lab..
>
> grab the tail where it exits the body and swing rapidly , bringing the neck
> in contact with a hard edge (top tube of the bike would do.) This will break
> the neck and kill the creature instantly.

I believe that a gas chamber is the preferred method of killing large
rodents in a lab according to the Home Office. The technique that you
describe is likely to result in the loss of the tail and requires
considerable accuracy. Try attaching a conker to a length of string then
swinging it in a single heavy blow so that the area immediately behind
the conker impacts the top of the tube. Now imagine that the weight is
not so uniformly distributed and the conker is capable of movement. I
would strongly recommend that unless you have experience of this or are
prepared to use the heel of boot / large rock on head technique, that
you contact a park ranger. Otherwise you may well increase the suffering
and will probably suffer nightmares for a while afterwards.

Jon

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 13:21:01 +0100, Jon Senior
<jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote in message
>:

>Only if they were stunned. That's one vicious looking beak.

<Whoop!> <Whoop!> Parrot Sketch Alert!

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

[Graeme]

Jon Senior <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote in
:

> Only if they were stunned.

True, they're not as dosey as your common or garden pigeon which are
generally so stupid that they will feed from crumbs directly beneath your
feet. Anyone so minded could flatten one (not that I have).

Going back a little, grey squirrels are pretty dense too. In the Botanic
Gardens in Edinburgh you can crouch down and wiggle your fingers as if you
have food and they'll come running to feed out of your hand. Personally, I
stopped falling for that trick weeks ago!

Graeme

[MartinM]

"Mark South" > wrote in message >...
> "Daniel Barlow" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Mark South" > writes:
> >
> > > Just toe the party line and there won't be any trouble. Start your
> > > chant now:
>
> > > "Death to helmet wearers, death to pavement cyclists, death to
> > > red-light jumpers, death to squirrels, death to buzzards, death to
> > > shops that don't allow bikes, death to the BBC, death to motorists,
> > > death to children, death to safer cycling courses, death to everyone
> > > else that got left out accidentally."
> >
> > Just for reference, you missed bibshort wearers, users of sub-£200
> > bikes, disc brakes that don't require a second mortgage, and
> > pedestrians. Also anyone who posts to uk.transport or exceeds speed
> > limits (there may be overlap in those last two groups)
>
> Those were the "everyone else that got left out accidentally" :-)
>
> There was a time, not so long ago, when the list looked as if it would also have
> to include people on non-recumbent bikes.

You forgot football fans ;-)

[James Hodson]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:50:05 +0100, Peter Clinch
> wrote:

>A pal of mine is a Parkie, and she regularly distresses the more
>sensitive kids on school visits by describing grey squirrels along the
>lines of "rat with good PR".

I had a very brief race today with a rat whose PR is done by Max
Clifford and Saatchi and Saatchi in combination - aka a rabbit.

James

[Mark South]

"Jon Senior" <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote in message
...
> Mark South opined the following...
> > Rats are humans biggest enemy after ourselves and viruses. They are
directly
> > responsible for a large amount of 3rd world poverty, destroying over 60% of
> > crops produced, and about doubling the cost of food production.
>
> I think that Barclays Bank is probably responsible for a greater
> proportion of 3rd world poverty. Perhaps if we agreed to "drop the
> debt" and allow them to return to subsistance farming, they could
> survive considerably better than they do now.

The rats would not care. They'd carry on destroying 60% of crops and damaging
the rest in storage.

> > They also destroy biodiversity by waging relentless war on birds, insects,
and
> > other mammals.
>
> I think that for humans to criticise any animal for damaging
> biodiversity is hypocrisy on a grand scale. Rabbits in Australia? The
> Dodo? Smallpox? We don't hold a good track record on leaving no mark.

No, we don't. And spreading rats is a lot worse than introducing Rabbits to Oz
was.

> > > Kind of. They're like pigeons but they don't **** on your head.
> >
> > Yeah, but they pollute your food and your environment and in some cases they
> > spread airborne viruses that are fatal to humans. Lovely chaps.
>
> That description applies equally (If not more so) to humans. Lovely
> chaps indeed.

I've already given you a list to chant of humans that need to be knocked off.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

[Jon Senior]

Mark South opined the following...
> The rats would not care. They'd carry on destroying 60% of crops and damaging
> the rest in storage.

So you use the money to build better stores. That solves one problem.
Presumably we must have a similar problem in the developed world, yet we
don't starve!

> > I think that for humans to criticise any animal for damaging
> > biodiversity is hypocrisy on a grand scale. Rabbits in Australia? The
> > Dodo? Smallpox? We don't hold a good track record on leaving no mark.
>
> No, we don't. And spreading rats is a lot worse than introducing Rabbits to Oz
> was.

But on a par with our ability to commit genocide. Smallpox is
significant because if the small stocks currently held in research labs
are destroyed it'll be the first time that humanity has intentionally
destroyed a species, as apposed to not looking where we tread.

> > That description applies equally (If not more so) to humans. Lovely
> > chaps indeed.
>
> I've already given you a list to chant of humans that need to be knocked off.

In another thread? I think I know the one. I just think it's dangerous
to criticise animals for doing similar things to man without
simultaneously acknowledging our contributions.

Jon

[David Martin]

On 13/6/04 8:13 am, in article
, "Graeme"
> wrote:

> What? Old Genghis was Anglo-Saxon was he? That explains the stroppy
> attitude of some English football supporters then :-)

Natural selection.

Over the last 2000 years Britain has carefully selected it's immigrants from
those most able to invade, rape, pillage and so on.

Is it surprising that these traits are then revealed under the duress of the
continuing European war by another name.

...d

[David Martin]

On 13/6/04 1:21 pm, in article ,
"Jon Senior" <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote:

> I believe that a gas chamber is the preferred method of killing large
> rodents in a lab according to the Home Office.

I'll remember to order one for the bike then.. DO shimano do a lightweight
Dura-Ace version of the rodent gas chamber ;-)

The personal method of choice would be the big rock, picking up a vicious
wee beastie is definitely a last resort.

...d

[Mark South]

"Jon Senior" <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote in message
...
> Mark South opined the following...
> > The rats would not care. They'd carry on destroying 60% of crops and
damaging
> > the rest in storage.
>
> So you use the money to build better stores. That solves one problem.

Do you know how hard/expensive it is to build a rodent-proof store?

> Presumably we must have a similar problem in the developed world, yet we
> don't starve!

Now you've made me hungry.

> > > I think that for humans to criticise any animal for damaging
> > > biodiversity is hypocrisy on a grand scale. Rabbits in Australia? The
> > > Dodo? Smallpox? We don't hold a good track record on leaving no mark.
> >
> > No, we don't. And spreading rats is a lot worse than introducing Rabbits to
Oz
> > was.
>
> But on a par with our ability to commit genocide. Smallpox is
> significant because if the small stocks currently held in research labs
> are destroyed it'll be the first time that humanity has intentionally
> destroyed a species, as apposed to not looking where we tread.

But if it makes some people aware that we are walking on eggs that's a good
thing.

> > > That description applies equally (If not more so) to humans. Lovely
> > > chaps indeed.
> >
> > I've already given you a list to chant of humans that need to be knocked
off.
>
> In another thread? I think I know the one. I just think it's dangerous
> to criticise animals for doing similar things to man without
> simultaneously acknowledging our contributions.

There are two sides to the situation, but you find yourself firmly on one of
them and it's difficult to change sides at this stage :-)
--
"Mango sorbet is clearcut proof that we have progressed beyond the
bare needs of survival and have progressed to the transcendant."
- Marc Goodman in talk.bizarre

[Jon Senior]

David Martin opined the following...
> I'll remember to order one for the bike then.. DO shimano do a lightweight
> Dura-Ace version of the rodent gas chamber ;-)

You haven't seen it? GC-7800. It's not very efficient mind, what with
all the holes Shimano drilled in it to reduce the weight.

Jon

[Dave Kahn]

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 07:13:16 GMT, Graeme
> wrote:

>Dave Kahn > wrote in
:
>
>> I should be alright, Kahn being an old Anglo Saxon name after all.
>
>What? Old Genghis was Anglo-Saxon was he? That explains the stroppy
>attitude of some English football supporters then :-)

In fact my surname comes from a Polish Shtetl. Kahan, Kaplan, Cohen
and even Schiff are variations on the same name. In some areas where
people were largely illiterate they would hang signs outside their
houses to identify themselves. The Kahns would naturally display a
boat as "Kahn" coincidentally means "boat" in German. They probably
felt that an upgrade to ship was good for their social standing. On my
mother's side (parents' names Keay and Hammond) my roots are in
Lincolnshire and lowland Scotland.

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain