Bike Luggage

[Doctor J. Frink]

Hullo,

After buying a new bike, all that's left of my old one is two large
panier bags which I used to use to use for carrying shopping, taking
folders to work, carrying some equipment etc. The new bike is quite bare
and I am enjoying the way it feels (it's much lighter than the old one
and so seems to handle a lot lighter as well, and certainly accelerates
better but that could just be the bike).

So, I am loathe to go sticking a) panier rack and b) these two (or at
least one) quite heavy bags on it. The amount I usually carry is too
little for a trailer (not that I'd want one ;0) and too much for the
little "under the saddle" jobs. I am currently using a rucksack which is
about the right size but obviously very sweaty on the back.

So, I was wondering what way people tackle this. Paniers and leave them
on? Paniers and take them off when not shopping etc? Stick with rucksack
and cope with sweaty backs? Am I just making too much of an issue about
the weight of a panier rack (never took the old one off to weigh it)?
Just a 1.5mile trip to Tescos today left my back sopping wet because of
this heatwave.

Cheers,
Frink

--
Doctor J. Frink : 'Rampant Ribald Ringtail'
See his mind here : http://www.cmp.liv.ac.uk/frink/
Annoy his mind here : pjf at cmp dot liv dot ack dot ook
"No sir, I didn't like it!" - Mr Horse

[Bob Downie]

>
>So, I was wondering what way people tackle this. Paniers and leave them
>on?

For preference I use a cycle courier bag (mine's by Altura). These sit
lower down and to one side and all-in-all more comfortable when cycling
than a rucksack.

Cheers

--
Bob Downie

Remove #n0spam# to reply directly

[anonymous coward]

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 14:21:43 +0000, Doctor J. Frink wrote:

> Hullo,
>
> After buying a new bike, all that's left of my old one is two large
> panier bags which I used to use to use for carrying shopping, taking
> folders to work, carrying some equipment etc. The new bike is quite bare
> and I am enjoying the way it feels (it's much lighter than the old one
> and so seems to handle a lot lighter as well, and certainly accelerates
> better but that could just be the bike).
>
> So, I am loathe to go sticking a) panier rack and b) these two (or at
> least one) quite heavy bags on it. The amount I usually carry is too
> little for a trailer (not that I'd want one ;0) and too much for the
> little "under the saddle" jobs. I am currently using a rucksack which is
> about the right size but obviously very sweaty on the back.
>
> So, I was wondering what way people tackle this. Paniers and leave them
> on? Paniers and take them off when not shopping etc?

I have panniers, but for more flexibility I have a rack-top bag, which is
about as big as a small rucksack (actually, mine's bigger because it also
has two small panniers that fold out to the sides).

Do your old panniers detatch from the bike easily? Good panniers (e.g
Vaude, Ortlieb, Karrimor) have quick-release clips and carrying handles so
it's no problem to take them off the bike when you don't need them.

> Stick with rucksack
> and cope with sweaty backs? Am I just making too much of an issue about
> the weight of a panier rack (never took the old one off to weigh it)?

Lightweight aluminium racks don't weigh much. Unless it was a very fast +
lightweight bike, I'd fit a rack.

> Just a 1.5mile trip to Tescos today left my back sopping wet because of
> this heatwave.

I have a recumbent, and I'm just beginning to see why Floridians prefer
models with mesh seats.

AC

> Cheers,
> Frink

[Doctor J. Frink]

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:49:26 +0100, anonymous coward
> wrote:
>
>Do your old panniers detatch from the bike easily? Good panniers (e.g
>Vaude, Ortlieb, Karrimor) have quick-release clips and carrying handles so
>it's no problem to take them off the bike when you don't need them.

Yep, they clip on and have handles, although looking around at some
racks recently I've found that they way they're made they don't fit
properly, but that will probably just be a case of finding the right
rack again.

The bags are quite heavy, but that's because of their size and their
waterproofing. They cost 50quid so it'd be a bit silly not to use them
but I was wondering if there were better alternatives.

>> Stick with rucksack
>> and cope with sweaty backs? Am I just making too much of an issue about
>> the weight of a panier rack (never took the old one off to weigh it)?
>
>Lightweight aluminium racks don't weigh much. Unless it was a very fast +
>lightweight bike, I'd fit a rack.

And, assuming the bags fit, would you recommend a normal straight rack
or one with a spring on the back (like a giant mouse trap[1])?

Frink

[1] Maybe if you put a pork chop back there you could catch large
carnivores and so alleviate the problems in the "dangerous dogs" thread
;0).

--
Doctor J. Frink : 'Rampant Ribald Ringtail'
See his mind here : http://www.cmp.liv.ac.uk/frink/
Annoy his mind here : pjf at cmp dot liv dot ack dot ook
"No sir, I didn't like it!" - Mr Horse

[Peter Clinch]

Doctor J. Frink wrote:

> So, I am loathe to go sticking a) panier rack and b) these two (or at
> least one) quite heavy bags on it.

An alloy rack like a Bor Yueh doesn't weigh that much and unless you're
riding something of mucho hotness it shouldn't make any appreciable
difference IMHO.

> So, I was wondering what way people tackle this. Paniers and leave them
> on? Paniers and take them off when not shopping etc?

I don't like to leave panniers on. First, mine cost more than the bikes
they sell in Tescos, so I don't see it's Very Smart to just abandon them
outside! Second, it's easier to load them up as you collect stuff,
rather than take it back to the bike first. Third, leaving empty
panniers on really will add to the drag.
Good panniers (e.g. Ortliebs, Carradice, Altura, Karrimor, VauDe etc.)
lift off easily (though they are secure when riding) so take one or two
as you need them and just take them off at the end of the trip.

> Stick with rucksack
> and cope with sweaty backs?

Ghastly things for cycling!
Another option would be something along the lines of a Carradice SQR,
which is a sort of seat pack on steroids, or a saddle bag. For either,
see http://www.carradice.co.uk/
These have the advantages of a rack-pack, but don't require you to have
a rack

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Peter Clinch]

Doctor J. Frink wrote:

> And, assuming the bags fit, would you recommend a normal straight rack
> or one with a spring on the back (like a giant mouse trap[1])?

Spring clip ones are a Work of Stan. Get some bungees or similar
elastics as these can keep a much wider variety of things where you put
them.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Velvet]

Doctor J. Frink wrote:

> So, I was wondering what way people tackle this. Paniers and leave them
> on? Paniers and take them off when not shopping etc? Stick with rucksack
> and cope with sweaty backs? Am I just making too much of an issue about
> the weight of a panier rack (never took the old one off to weigh it)?
> Just a 1.5mile trip to Tescos today left my back sopping wet because of
> this heatwave.
>
> Cheers,
> Frink
>

Depends how much weight you want to carry, but take a look at the Tubus
Fly pannier rack. It's very light (main reason I bought it, given I
have to get the bike up and down flight of steps each time I use it) and
supports altura medium-sized panniers well, despite it looking like they
might be able to poke in the spokes (they're stiff-backed, so no chance
of that).

Only thing is that it uses a single mount point to the brazeons on the
seat tube, not double. And it doesn't have light mounting bracket, so
it can be a bit fiddly to get the cateye mounting things to stay put in
an appropriate place (requires additional padding bits).

I leave the rack on (low weight so not fussed about that at the moment)
and put panniers on/off as required. If I can get away with my small
seat pack and lashing jacket to the rack, then I'll do that rather than
take a pannier with the bits in, so good even if the panniers aren't in use.
--


Velvet

[Simon Brooke]

in message >, Doctor J. Frink
') wrote:

> Hullo,
>
> After buying a new bike, all that's left of my old one is two large
> panier bags which I used to use to use for carrying shopping, taking
> folders to work, carrying some equipment etc. The new bike is quite
> bare and I am enjoying the way it feels (it's much lighter than the
> old one and so seems to handle a lot lighter as well, and certainly
> accelerates better but that could just be the bike).
>
> So, I am loathe to go sticking a) panier rack and b) these two (or at
> least one) quite heavy bags on it. The amount I usually carry is too
> little for a trailer (not that I'd want one ;0) and too much for the
> little "under the saddle" jobs. I am currently using a rucksack which
> is about the right size but obviously very sweaty on the back.
>
> So, I was wondering what way people tackle this.

Bar bags. I've always been a great believer in them, and the modern
klik-fix systems make them even better. A useful sized bag right in
front of you where you can get at it when cycling or keep your map on
it, that clips off the bike easily and is carried easily with a
shoulder strap.

I use a Carradice Super C
<URL:http://www.carradice.co.uk/expedition-rider.htm#supercfrontbag>
but all the good bike luggage makers make them, and if you don't like
Carradice's heavy cotton you can have almost anyone else's nylon:
<URL:http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?Category=bags%20-%20handlebar>

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Age equals angst multiplied by the speed of fright squared.
;; the Worlock

[Pete Biggs]

Doctor J. Frink wrote:
> So, I was wondering what way people tackle this. Paniers and leave
> them on?

You will be tempted to carry more stuff than you need all the time.

> Paniers and take them off when not shopping etc?

I think that's the best option. A small amount of luggage can always be
strapped on rack when panniers are not needed.

>Stick with rucksack and cope with sweaty backs?

'Orrible.

> Am I just making too much of an
> issue about the weight of a panier rack (never took the old one off
> to weigh it)?

They can weigh quite a bit but it's worth it on anything other than
lightweight racers or true off-roaders that you don't expect to carry much
luggage on.

~PB

[Mark South]

"Peter Clinch" > wrote in message
...
> Doctor J. Frink wrote:
>
> > And, assuming the bags fit, would you recommend a normal straight rack
> > or one with a spring on the back (like a giant mouse trap[1])?
>
> Spring clip ones are a Work of Stan. Get some bungees or similar
> elastics as these can keep a much wider variety of things where you put
> them.

The spring clips have a raison d'etre. They hold in place the rear-rack
shopping baskets which are common on the Evil Euro Continent. Jolly useful for
a spot of shopping they are too.
--
"Mango sorbet is clearcut proof that we have progressed beyond the
bare needs of survival and have progressed to the transcendant."
- Marc Goodman in talk.bizarre

[Terry]

> >
> > After buying a new bike, all that's left of my old one is two large
> > panier bags which I used to use to use for carrying shopping, taking

I find it easier to have more than one bike.In fact you can't have too
many.There is the light bike which comes out in summer and has nothing
on it and the sensible bike which does most of the miles because,
although it seems less fun, it has everything on it so will go through
rain, off road, at night and carry stuff without my needing to get the
spanners out.
And then there are the others.
Number two bike can begin as an old ad-mag bargain, since its original
weight is not the point.

A karrimor bar bag is a quick way to click on a useful bag and the
clip that remains on the bars is not too big, but it may not carry big
files.I use a bar bag a lot.Aldi and Lidle occasionally do a cheap
one.

TerryJ

[Doctor J. Frink]

On 16 Jun 2004 12:50:23 -0700, Terry > wrote:
>> >
>> > After buying a new bike, all that's left of my old one is two large
>> > panier bags which I used to use to use for carrying shopping, taking
>
>I find it easier to have more than one bike.In fact you can't have too
>many.There is the light bike which comes out in summer and has nothing
>on it and the sensible bike which does most of the miles because,
>although it seems less fun, it has everything on it so will go through
>rain, off road, at night and carry stuff without my needing to get the
>spanners out.

I would be happy enough to have two bikes if the first bike hadn't been
pinched out of the garden shed by crowbar-toting *******s.

I do have a very old (20+ yrs) racer, which is reserved for "have to
leave it at a station" type trips.

Frink

--
Doctor J. Frink : 'Rampant Ribald Ringtail'
See his mind here : http://www.cmp.liv.ac.uk/frink/
Annoy his mind here : pjf at cmp dot liv dot ack dot ook
"No sir, I didn't like it!" - Mr Horse

[mark]

"Doctor J. Frink" wrote ...
> Hullo,
>
> So, I was wondering what way people tackle this. Paniers and leave them
> on? Paniers and take them off when not shopping etc? Stick with rucksack
> and cope with sweaty backs? Am I just making too much of an issue about
> the weight of a panier rack (never took the old one off to weigh it)?
> Just a 1.5mile trip to Tescos today left my back sopping wet because of
> this heatwave.
>
> Cheers,
> Frink

Carradice seat bags. Multiple sizes all the way up to the truly gigantic
"Camper" model, sturdy canvas and leather construction, and lash points to
tie on anything that won't fit inside.
--
mark

[chris French]

In message t>, mark
> writes
>
>"Doctor J. Frink" wrote ...
>> Hullo,
>>
>> So, I was wondering what way people tackle this. Paniers and leave them
>> on? Paniers and take them off when not shopping etc? Stick with rucksack
>> and cope with sweaty backs? Am I just making too much of an issue about
>> the weight of a panier rack (never took the old one off to weigh it)?
>> Just a 1.5mile trip to Tescos today left my back sopping wet because of
>> this heatwave.
>
>Carradice seat bags. Multiple sizes all the way up to the truly gigantic
>"Camper" model, sturdy canvas and leather construction, and lash points to
>tie on anything that won't fit inside.

And note as well, that they can be used with the Carradice SQR system as
well, (mentioned by Pete) so that they can be easily removed.

I have one that I use as my 'default' bag, it mostly lives on the
'utility' bike, but gets swapped onto the tourer when necessary, the
toolkit, spare tubes, waterproof etc. live in there so always have them.

While a decent size, the capacity of even the largest (Camper longflap)
doesn't go far when shopping. So a rack and panniers will still be
needed.

I cant see the issue here really, what's so hard about taking some
panniers off (even my old Super Cs aren't that bad, new panniers are
much easier) - a rack isn't that heavy. Though TBh, there is usally a
least one pannier living on the above utility bike as well, but then on
most trips it's going to be used for carrying shopping etc. anyway.
--
Chris French, Leeds

[Simon Brooke]

in message >, chris French
') wrote:

> And note as well, that they can be used with the Carradice SQR system
> as well, (mentioned by Pete) so that they can be easily removed.

As a matter of interest, does anyone use the SQR system and if so does
it suffer from harmonic penduluming effects? My SO has been trying to
persuade me they would be a good thing for carrying gear on fully
suspended bikes, and I've been resisting because I'm concerned about
weight stuck out on, effectively a long arm setting up a harmonic
wobble and affecting balance. Has anyone tried it? Is this a problem or
am I just being an idiot?

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; I'd rather live in sybar-space

[chris French]

In message >, Simon
Brooke > writes
>in message >, chris French
') wrote:
>
>> And note as well, that they can be used with the Carradice SQR system
>> as well, (mentioned by Pete) so that they can be easily removed.
>
>As a matter of interest, does anyone use the SQR system and if so does
>it suffer from harmonic penduluming effects? My SO has been trying to
>persuade me they would be a good thing for carrying gear on fully
>suspended bikes, and I've been resisting because I'm concerned about
>weight stuck out on, effectively a long arm setting up a harmonic
>wobble and affecting balance. Has anyone tried it? Is this a problem or
>am I just being an idiot?
>


As I said, I use the SQR attachment with a large saddle bag - on the
road. I've never noticed any problems of the sort you mention. If I load
up the bag very heavily (stuffing it full of tins, milk, juice cartons
etc.) then I can notice an effect on the handling - not a problem, but
noticeable. however, with more usual loads a few items of clothing, food
etc. for a ride)
I don't notice it is there.

There is a bit of movement in the bag from side to side, sometimes
noticeable again with heavy loads - I suspect this wouldn't happen with
the proper SQR bags though. - But this seems to be down to the bag, and
would probably happen with a normally fixed saddlebag as well.

No problem AFAICS, so I guess you must be an idiot ...:-)?
--
Chris French, Leeds

[Richard Corfield]

On 2004-06-16, Doctor J. Frink > wrote:
>
> So, I was wondering what way people tackle this. Paniers and leave them
> on? Paniers and take them off when not shopping etc? Stick with rucksack
> and cope with sweaty backs? Am I just making too much of an issue about
> the weight of a panier rack (never took the old one off to weigh it)?
> Just a 1.5mile trip to Tescos today left my back sopping wet because of
> this heatwave.

My bikes were bought with occaisional carrying in mind. In fact, most
times I'm riding I'm carring something whether its appropriate clothing
for wherever I'm going (work/karate/etc) or shopping. Both bikes have
aluminium racks permanently fitted. I've not noticed the extra weight to
be a problem. One is a fairly lightweight aluminium hybrid and the other
is a steel trike. The rack may be more significant on a very lightweight
racer. I just take the rack for granted as being part of the bike.

The bags I have are quick release. The old Halfords waterproof ones
hook over at the top and have a bar that turns to lock against the rack
uprights at the bottom. The new Karrimor bags have similar hooks at the
top, and a disk that is attached to the rack support vertical which
the bottom of the bag clips to. Both have carry handles for carrying
around off the bike, and the top hooks will clip onto shopping trolleys
to help filling. Halfords now do a convertable rucksack/pannier which
looks interesting.

I quite often find I have to carry something even if I forget the
bags, so the racks have bungees permanently attached, and I bungee the
shopping bags or whatever on top of them. Remembering the pannier bags
when shopping is a good idea. On the upright hybrid, the bike lock is
bungeed to the rack. On the recumbent trike, the lock is clipped onto
the frame behind the seat so out of the way.

- Richard

--
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ Richard dot Corfield at ntlworld dot com
_/ _/ _/ _/
_/_/ _/ _/ Time is a one way street,
_/ _/ _/_/ _/_/_/ Except in the Twilight Zone.

[Roos Eisma]

Richard Corfield > writes:

>I quite often find I have to carry something even if I forget the
>bags, so the racks have bungees permanently attached, and I bungee the
>shopping bags or whatever on top of them. Remembering the pannier bags
>when shopping is a good idea.

General rule: bring one more pannier / one size larger than you *think*
you'll need for shopping. Or am I the only one who goes into Tesco for
just bread and milk and comes out with a heavy load because the orange
juice is on bogof offer?

Roos

[Peter Clinch]

Roos Eisma wrote:

> General rule: bring one more pannier / one size larger than you *think*
> you'll need for shopping. Or am I the only one who goes into Tesco for
> just bread and milk and comes out with a heavy load because the orange
> juice is on bogof offer?

Why do you think I usually go shopping on the 8 Freight? ;-)

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[David Martin]

On 18/6/04 10:04 am, in article , "Peter
Clinch" > wrote:

> Why do you think I usually go shopping on the 8 Freight? ;-)

And then take the trailer 'just in case'?

...d

[chris French]

In message >, Roos Eisma
> writes
>Richard Corfield > writes:
>
>>I quite often find I have to carry something even if I forget the
>>bags, so the racks have bungees permanently attached, and I bungee the
>>shopping bags or whatever on top of them. Remembering the pannier bags
>>when shopping is a good idea.
>
>General rule: bring one more pannier / one size larger than you *think*
>you'll need for shopping.

My Super C's are old, and very tatty (carrying bits of glass around in
them for stained glass work when not sufficiently wrapped was not a good
idea...), and really beyond a sensible repair (Carradice did their best
last year) I'm thinking of the Carradice shopping ones as they are
bigger and amore sensible 'squarer shape.

>Or am I the only one who goes into Tesco for
>just bread and milk and comes out with a heavy load because the orange
>juice is on bogof offer?

No, but I overdid it a bit last Saturday, took E out in the trailer
shopping, By the time we'd finished both panniers were bulging, as was
the large saddle bag, the rear of the trailer was stuffed, she had bread
in the 'passenger' compartment, and her feet inside a plastic aquarium
(for the baby newts) . I really only just managed to get it all back up
the hill home :-)
--
Chris French, Leeds