MTB Rims ..

[elyob]

Just managed to crack my rear rims after a spill ... they were Mavic X221's
which sell for £17 on wiggle. However the reviews are pretty dire on
BikeMagic. So, my chance to get something different.

I'm a heavy rider, hitting things straight on :) And have had no real
problems with the X221's.

I need 32 holes, and a book or recommendation on wheel builders around
Kingston-upon-Thames.

Thanks in advance ...

Nick "Still nursing/showing off my self-inflicted wounds"

[Tim Izod]

elyob > wrote:
> Just managed to crack my rear rims after a spill ... they were Mavic X221's
> which sell for 17 on wiggle. However the reviews are pretty dire on
> BikeMagic. So, my chance to get something different.

> I'm a heavy rider, hitting things straight on :) And have had no real
> problems with the X221's.

> I need 32 holes, and a book or recommendation on wheel builders around
> Kingston-upon-Thames.

> Thanks in advance ...

> Nick "Still nursing/showing off my self-inflicted wounds"

The book to read on bike wheels seems to be The Bicycle Wheel by
Jobst Brandt.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0960723668/ref=sr_aps_books_1_1/202-8632480-3405459

Sheldon Brown also (unsuprisingly) has some info which can be
found at http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

I've build a couple of wheels with Mavic X221. The wheels have
been used for commuting and XC ifor a year and having checked them
yesterday are still as true as when I build them. The rider is
considerably more careful and lighter than I am though:)

Whether you want to rebuild with the same rims or get something
a bit more pricey is up to you though I'm sure people with more
experience will have suggestions.
--
Tim. /\ /\
O___O
=\__|__/= meow.
U

[elyob]

"Tim Izod" > wrote in message
...
> elyob > wrote:
> > Just managed to crack my rear rims after a spill ... they were Mavic
X221's
> > which sell for 17 on wiggle. However the reviews are pretty dire on
> > BikeMagic. So, my chance to get something different.
>
> > I'm a heavy rider, hitting things straight on :) And have had no real
> > problems with the X221's.
>
> > I need 32 holes, and a book or recommendation on wheel builders around
> > Kingston-upon-Thames.
>
> > Thanks in advance ...
>
> > Nick "Still nursing/showing off my self-inflicted wounds"
>
> The book to read on bike wheels seems to be The Bicycle Wheel by
> Jobst Brandt.
>
>
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0960723668/ref=sr_aps_books_1_1/202-8632480-3405459
>
> Sheldon Brown also (unsuprisingly) has some info which can be
> found at http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html
>
> I've build a couple of wheels with Mavic X221. The wheels have
> been used for commuting and XC ifor a year and having checked them
> yesterday are still as true as when I build them. The rider is
> considerably more careful and lighter than I am though:)
>
> Whether you want to rebuild with the same rims or get something
> a bit more pricey is up to you though I'm sure people with more
> experience will have suggestions.

Thanks Tim, Managed 5000 miles on the X221's, so can't be all bad. Only had
to true them once or twice. Was going to try and true them after the spill
when I noticed three big cracks :)

[Tim Izod]

elyob > wrote:

> "Tim Izod" > wrote in message
> ...
>> elyob > wrote:
>> > Just managed to crack my rear rims after a spill ... they were Mavic
> X221's
>> > which sell for 17 on wiggle. However the reviews are pretty dire on
>> > BikeMagic. So, my chance to get something different.
>>
>> > I'm a heavy rider, hitting things straight on :) And have had no real
>> > problems with the X221's.
>>
>> > I need 32 holes, and a book or recommendation on wheel builders around
>> > Kingston-upon-Thames.
>>
>> > Thanks in advance ...
>>
>> > Nick "Still nursing/showing off my self-inflicted wounds"
>>
[snip my waffle]

> Thanks Tim, Managed 5000 miles on the X221's, so can't be all bad. Only had
> to true them once or twice. Was going to try and true them after the spill
> when I noticed three big cracks :)

Out of curiosity I've has a peep at the reviews on
www.mtbreview.com as well as on Bike Magic. They do seem to be divided
between the good value for money and last if wheels build well and the
d00d! th3y d13 if U do jumpz on them camps. Hmmm. That suggests
something to me about the way they may have been treated by the people
with early failures:)
--
Tim. /\ /\
O___O
=\__|__/= meow.
U

[elyob]

"Tim Izod" > wrote in message
...
> elyob > wrote:
>
> > "Tim Izod" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> elyob > wrote:
> >> > Just managed to crack my rear rims after a spill ... they were Mavic
> > X221's
> >> > which sell for 17 on wiggle. However the reviews are pretty dire on
> >> > BikeMagic. So, my chance to get something different.
> >>
> >> > I'm a heavy rider, hitting things straight on :) And have had no real
> >> > problems with the X221's.
> >>
> >> > I need 32 holes, and a book or recommendation on wheel builders
around
> >> > Kingston-upon-Thames.
> >>
> >> > Thanks in advance ...
> >>
> >> > Nick "Still nursing/showing off my self-inflicted wounds"
> >>
> [snip my waffle]
>
> > Thanks Tim, Managed 5000 miles on the X221's, so can't be all bad. Only
had
> > to true them once or twice. Was going to try and true them after the
spill
> > when I noticed three big cracks :)
>
> Out of curiosity I've has a peep at the reviews on
> www.mtbreview.com as well as on Bike Magic. They do seem to be divided
> between the good value for money and last if wheels build well and the
> d00d! th3y d13 if U do jumpz on them camps. Hmmm. That suggests
> something to me about the way they may have been treated by the people
> with early failures:)

Should I replace all the spokes at the same time? I've already decided to
replace the front rim at the same time.

[Pete Biggs]

elyob wrote:
> Just managed to crack my rear rims after a spill ... they were Mavic
> X221's which sell for £17 on wiggle. However the reviews are pretty
> dire on BikeMagic. So, my chance to get something different.
>
> I'm a heavy rider, hitting things straight on :) And have had no real
> problems with the X221's.

Well, you did eventually have a problem. The X618 looks like a stronger
rim to me. It officially requires spokes to be about 1mm shorter but you
might possibly get a way with reusing the same length spokes with a bit of
luck.

There's no need to change spokes if they haven't been breaking and aren't
badly kinked. It saves effort as well as money to resuse them as
replacing a rim is easier than lacing from scratch. Might be an idea to
replace the nipples, though, especially if you've been playing with them
:-)

On the other hand, if the *hub* isn't much cop anyway, you could cut your
losses and get a whole new wheel(s). Merlin Cycles have great deals for
handbuilt mail-order MTB wheels. Deore and LX hubs are decent for most
uses.

~PB

[Simon Brooke]

in message >, elyob
') wrote:

> Just managed to crack my rear rims after a spill ... they were Mavic
> X221's which sell for £17 on wiggle. However the reviews are pretty
> dire on BikeMagic. So, my chance to get something different.
>
> I'm a heavy rider, hitting things straight on :) And have had no real
> problems with the X221's.
>
> I need 32 holes, and a book or recommendation on wheel builders around
> Kingston-upon-Thames.

If you're a heavy rider, would 36 hole be better? You'd need new hubs,
of course.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; "If I were a Microsoft Public Relations person, I would probably
;; be sobbing on a desk right now" -- Rob Miller, editor, /.

[elyob]

"Simon Brooke" > wrote in message
...
> in message >, elyob
> ') wrote:
>
> > Just managed to crack my rear rims after a spill ... they were Mavic
> > X221's which sell for £17 on wiggle. However the reviews are pretty
> > dire on BikeMagic. So, my chance to get something different.
> >
> > I'm a heavy rider, hitting things straight on :) And have had no real
> > problems with the X221's.
> >
> > I need 32 holes, and a book or recommendation on wheel builders around
> > Kingston-upon-Thames.
>
> If you're a heavy rider, would 36 hole be better? You'd need new hubs,
> of course.
>

I'm a poor heavy rider ;) Popped in order for the same X221's .... I guess
if they did 5000 miles, they did well. It'll also be easier to swap over.
It'll be my first rebuilds, so may just put together then get someone to
tension them. Don't want them collapsing at 40mph ;)

[Peter B]

"elyob" > wrote in message
...
> I'm a poor heavy rider ;) Popped in order for the same X221's .... I guess
> if they did 5000 miles, they did well. It'll also be easier to swap over.
> It'll be my first rebuilds, so may just put together then get someone to
> tension them. Don't want them collapsing at 40mph ;)

I've used them and had no problems. Only replaced them on my mtb when the
braking surfaces wore out, still have a pair on my old mtb/winter hack
which are home builds.

--
Regards,
Pete

[Marten Hoffmann]

schreef ...
> Just managed to crack my rear rims after a spill ... they were Mavic X221's
> which sell for £17 on wiggle. However the reviews are pretty dire on
> BikeMagic. So, my chance to get something different.
>
> I'm a heavy rider, hitting things straight on :) And have had no real
> problems with the X221's.
>
> I need 32 holes, and a book or recommendation on wheel builders around
> Kingston-upon-Thames.
>
> Thanks in advance ...
>
> Nick "Still nursing/showing off my self-inflicted wounds"

I have read the other reactions on Nick's post and am wondering why
literally *nobody* mentions any other make of rims than Mavic? These are
not all that good (X517!).

Why not consider alternatives like DT's fine DT XR 4.1? Or Sun Rhyno
Lite or ..... ?

--
Mvg,
Marten

[Pete Biggs]

Marten Hoffmann wrote:

> I have read the other reactions on Nick's post and am wondering why
> literally *nobody* mentions any other make of rims than Mavic? These
> are not all that good (X517!).

Mavic rims are mentioned so often just because they are so common and
available. One can't recommend or suggest something one hasn't tried or
knows about. That's not to say other brands won't be as good or better.

> Why not consider alternatives like DT's fine DT XR 4.1? Or Sun Rhyno
> Lite or ..... ?

Where can I find the full specifications of these rims? Preferably
including profile pictures/diagrams.

thanks
~PB

[elyob]

"Peter B" > wrote in message
...
>
> "elyob" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I'm a poor heavy rider ;) Popped in order for the same X221's .... I
guess
> > if they did 5000 miles, they did well. It'll also be easier to swap
over.
> > It'll be my first rebuilds, so may just put together then get someone to
> > tension them. Don't want them collapsing at 40mph ;)
>
> I've used them and had no problems. Only replaced them on my mtb when the
> braking surfaces wore out, still have a pair on my old mtb/winter hack
> which are home builds.

I was starting to worry about the real rims myself. It's not really
something that I check that often .. i.e. am I weakening the sidewalls of
the rims? Especially as I found a couple of lumps of metal in my last brake
blocks that made a hell of a noise. It was at least 5mm long.

I guess I'm sitting here thinking, if it ain't broke (thx M.H.) then why nit
do the same. Okay, they are bronke, but 5k miles is a good time to replace.

A good question to me (as an ex-car driver) - why not put a yearly service
and maximum mileage on rims? I know the answer already. It's down to how you
ride, and your terrain. But how many car drivers stick to their service
schedule just for the hell of it?

Thanks all for the help so far, but please advise me on wheel strengthing.
Am I write on paying an expert to true the wheel? Do they have the
equivalent of torque wrenches for spoke keys?

Nick

[Nora Lenderby]

"Pete Biggs" writes:

> Mavic rims are mentioned so often just because they are so common and
> available. One can't recommend or suggest something one hasn't tried
> or knows about.

That is quite untrue. These mailing lists depend almost entirely on
large numbers of people making recommendations based on no knowledge or
experience whatsoever, merely repeating the prevailing dogma with
sufficient conviction to convey a false impression of expertise.

> > Why not consider alternatives like DT's fine DT XR 4.1? Or Sun Rhyno
> > Lite or ..... ?

> Where can I find the full specifications of these rims? Preferably
> including profile pictures/diagrams.

It often makes sense to look for this information on the Internet site
of the manufacturer.

http://www.sun-ringle.com/ShowRoom/MTB/Rims/rhynomtb.html

http://www.dtswiss.com/index.asp?fuseaction=rims.bike

I do hope this helps.

N. Lenderby (Mrs)



--

[Simon Brooke]

in message >, Pete Biggs
') wrote:

> Marten Hoffmann wrote:
>
>> Why not consider alternatives like DT's fine DT XR 4.1? Or Sun Rhyno
>> Lite or ..... ?
>
> Where can I find the full specifications of these rims? Preferably
> including profile pictures/diagrams.

<URL:http://www.dtswiss.com/index.asp?fuseaction=rims.bike>
<URL:http://www.dtswiss.com/data/files/DAT_EN_30430232103.pdf>

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; how did we conclude that a ****ing cartoon mouse is deserving
;; of 90+ years of protection, but a cure for cancer, only 14?
-- user 'Tackhead', in /. discussion of copyright law, 22/05/02

[Pete Biggs]

Nora Lenderby wrote:
> "Pete Biggs" writes:
>
>> Mavic rims are mentioned so often just because they are so common and
>> available. One can't recommend or suggest something one hasn't tried
>> or knows about.
>
> That is quite untrue. These mailing lists depend almost entirely on
> large numbers of people making recommendations based on no knowledge
> or experience whatsoever, merely repeating the prevailing dogma with
> sufficient conviction to convey a false impression of expertise.

Ooh, funny but harsh. I'd say uk.rec.cycling works so well because
there's enough people who do post advice based on real knowledge or
experience.

>>> Why not consider alternatives like DT's fine DT XR 4.1? Or Sun Rhyno
>>> Lite or ..... ?
>
>> Where can I find the full specifications of these rims? Preferably
>> including profile pictures/diagrams.
>
> It often makes sense to look for this information on the Internet site
> of the manufacturer.

Quite right.

> http://www.sun-ringle.com/ShowRoom/MTB/Rims/rhynomtb.html
>
> http://www.dtswiss.com/index.asp?fuseaction=rims.bike
>
> I do hope this helps.
>
> N. Lenderby (Mrs)

Thank you. It's funny how lazy I can be when asking questions when I
often spend so much time researching for answers I post. Perhaps that's
the way these newsgroups work, eh? I suppose it's nice to sometimes get
something back for free.

cheers
~PB (Mr)

[Peter B]

"elyob" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks all for the help so far, but please advise me on wheel strengthing.
> Am I write on paying an expert to true the wheel? Do they have the
> equivalent of torque wrenches for spoke keys?

There are spoke tensionmeters available but I bet they're not widely used.

The way to learn how to tension spokes is to use a good wheel as a sample
and with a bit of patience and care replicate the tension.
This is highly subjective but IME isn't as critical (or maybe I'm just
naturally good at it ;-) as some would have you believe.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheels/index.html is a most excellent site!

It isn't cost effective to build a complete wheel from scratch (as already
pointed out) but is very satisfying if you have spare time and you will
learn trueing which is useful.

The last wheels I built was 6 months ago, X517 on Hope XC, they have been
seriously hammered in the Peaks and Lakes and have required a minimum of
re-trueing. I did the rear a few weeks back and haven't done the front at
all yet.
I'm entirely self taught. A colleague also built a pair for the first time
which looked great, I can't attest to how they fared though.
If we can do it so can you, it's mainly about patience.
--
Regards,
Pete

[Marten Hoffmann]

schreef ...

> Thank you. It's funny how lazy I can be when asking questions when I
> often spend so much time researching for answers I post. Perhaps that's
> the way these newsgroups work, eh? I suppose it's nice to sometimes get
> something back for free.

Same here ;-)

BTW, the Sun Rhyno Lite is a trustworthy rim, very often used on
tandems. So this should hold up to almost any solo cross-country rider.

--
Regards,
Marten