Halfords at London to Brighton

[injuryprone]

Just got back from this years London to Brighton, having spent *3 HOURS*
at marshall point 115 waiting for a f*@%ing Halfords mechanic that
never turned up.

Turns out they won the contract to supply mechanics along the route for
this years ride and then almost all of them failed to turn up, those
that did turn up had few parts (innertubes, nuts, chains etc) and so
could only fix the most simple of problems.

Normally I'd suggest we all boycott them, but frankly I'd be shocked if
there was anyone capable of using usenet news that would be stupid
enough to use them in the first place.

******s.

Regards,
Mark.

[vernon levy]

"injuryprone" > wrote in message
...
> Just got back from this years London to Brighton, having spent *3 HOURS*
> at marshall point 115 waiting for a f*@%ing Halfords mechanic that
> never turned up.

In contrast, the Great Yorkshire Bike Ride (70 miles from Wetherby to Filey)
this Saturday was brilliantly marshalled and organised. There were roving
mechanics on motor cycles and in vans - - folk didn't appear to have to wait
more than 10 minutes or so befor being attended to.

Come up North for a more challenging and better organised ride. Can't wait
to next year's event

> Turns out they won the contract to supply mechanics along the route for
> this years ride and then almost all of them failed to turn up, those
> that did turn up had few parts (innertubes, nuts, chains etc) and so
> could only fix the most simple of problems.

Surely if the bikes were well maintained and serviced to begin with, ensuing
problems should be simple?

having said that I was amazed at the poor mechanical condition of some of
the bikes on the GYBR - the sound of dry rusty chains grinding through dry
bearing'd deraiileurs accompanied by dry bottom bracked bearings squeaking
their protests on several bikes set my teeth on edge....
>
> Normally I'd suggest we all boycott them, but frankly I'd be shocked if
> there was anyone capable of using usenet news that would be stupid
> enough to use them in the first place.

> ******s.

A local problem for local people. Not all Halfords, branches, products or
staff are worthy of the derision often meted out here in the newsgroup.
Write a letter of complaint to the organisers - you can't blame the troops
until the generals have been called to account.

[[Not Responding]]

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 21:02:11 +0100, injuryprone >
wrote:

>Just got back from this years London to Brighton, having spent *3 HOURS*
>at marshall point 115 waiting for a f*@%ing Halfords mechanic that
>never turned up.
>
>Turns out they won the contract to supply mechanics along the route for
>this years ride and then almost all of them failed to turn up, those
>that did turn up had few parts (innertubes, nuts, chains etc) and so
>could only fix the most simple of problems.

What was their contract for? There's not many organisations that could
handle what I assume is a pretty high volume of work and still offer
anything more than solutions to simple problems.

>Normally I'd suggest we all boycott them, but frankly I'd be shocked if
>there was anyone capable of using usenet news that would be stupid
>enough to use them in the first place.

How should I take that remark seeing as I've just bought a bike from
them? :)

Halfords is a pretty well worn topic hereabouts. I think the overall
conclusion (mine, that is) is that they have their uses but, as
always, caveat emptor.

[MSeries]

injuryprone wrote:
> Just got back from this years London to Brighton, having spent *3
> HOURS* at marshall point 115 waiting for a f*@%ing Halfords mechanic
> that never turned up.
>

So what was wrong with your bike that you couldn't fix ?

[Andy Hewitt]

[Not Responding] > wrote:

<Snipped Text>
> >Normally I'd suggest we all boycott them, but frankly I'd be shocked if
> >there was anyone capable of using usenet news that would be stupid
> >enough to use them in the first place.
>
> How should I take that remark seeing as I've just bought a bike from
> them? :)
>
> Halfords is a pretty well worn topic hereabouts. I think the overall
> conclusion (mine, that is) is that they have their uses but, as
> always, caveat emptor.

Absolutely. I wanted a reasonably price bike for Emily to make the next
step up in bike size. I popped into the local byke shoppe, which I
thought would be best. OK, he gave sound advice, but their assumption
was that people only wanted premium quality bikes - their cheapest was
£200.

I didn't want anything too fancy, no shock forks and all that kind of
stuff.

I popped up to our local Halfords, and found what we were looking for, a
simple bike reduced to £99 - apparently because it didn't have shock
forks. That did the job nicely.

Now I was lucky enough to find a very helpful chap in their store, who
even gave us a shorter seat stem. I have since been back, and finding
the same chap, found him very helpful indeed. I'll certainly be going
back there again.

--
Andy Hewitt ** FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Honda Concerto 16v: Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
http://www.thehewitts.plus.com - now online

[Tony Raven]

Andy Hewitt wrote:
>
> Now I was lucky enough to find a very helpful chap in their store, who
> even gave us a shorter seat stem. I have since been back, and finding
> the same chap, found him very helpful indeed. I'll certainly be going
> back there again.

There are good bike shops and Halfords branches and bad bike shops and
Halfords branches. You just need to find the good ones of either and take
your custom there.

Tony

[Simonb]

I do 200 or 300km Audaxes quite often and we don't have mechanics. If your
problem is so bad you can't fix it; you have to track down an LBS, hope
someone passing can help (bad form though, really) or pack in and find a way
home.

Mechanics -- pah!

[Andy Hewitt]

Tony Raven > wrote:

> Andy Hewitt wrote:
> >
> > Now I was lucky enough to find a very helpful chap in their store, who
> > even gave us a shorter seat stem. I have since been back, and finding
> > the same chap, found him very helpful indeed. I'll certainly be going
> > back there again.
>
> There are good bike shops and Halfords branches and bad bike shops and
> Halfords branches. You just need to find the good ones of either and take
> your custom there.

Yes, that was my point.

--
Andy Hewitt ** FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Honda Concerto 16v: Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
http://www.thehewitts.plus.com - now online

[davek]

injuryprone:
>Just got back from this years London to Brighton, having spent *3 HOURS*
>at marshall point 115 waiting for a f*@%ing Halfords mechanic that
>never turned up.

Ouch. What was your difficulty?

How was the ride apart from that? Hope you had fun and didn't get rained on
too much. My sister did it and complained about the crowds slowing her
down - but then she was one of the many that walked up Ditchling Beacon.

d.

[injuryprone]

MSeries wrote:
> injuryprone wrote:
>
>>Just got back from this years London to Brighton, having spent *3
>>HOURS* at marshall point 115 waiting for a f*@%ing Halfords mechanic
>>that never turned up.
>
> So what was wrong with your bike that you couldn't fix ?
>

My chain snapped (actually it broke into a few little pieces). I don't
carry a spare chain, although I think I might from now on.

Regards,
Mark

[MartinM]

"Simonb" > wrote in message >...
> I do 200 or 300km Audaxes quite often and we don't have mechanics. If your
> problem is so bad you can't fix it; you have to track down an LBS, hope
> someone passing can help (bad form though, really) or pack in and find a way
> home.
>
> Mechanics -- pah!

That is indeed the ethos of Audax. The ethos of L2B seems to be (for
many riders) do no training then dig the old bike out (rust chain et
al) from last year, maybe put two pumpfuls of air in the tyres and
ride (walk) to Brighton, and also hope it doesn't rain so you end up
wearing a bin liner.
But what the hey, it gets people out and raises 1.5m for the BHF, even
if they pack. Still worth doing just for the Beacon, nothing comes
close to the atmosphere on the way up there and at the top. And yes
halfords failed to turn up at Turner's Hill, probably the major stop
en route.

[Paul - xxx]

injuryprone posted:

> My chain snapped (actually it broke into a few little pieces). I don't
> carry a spare chain, although I think I might from now on.

A spare link and/or a chain breaker would allow you to shorten the chain a
link and carry on in less than 10 minutes .. ;)

--
Paul ...

(8(|) ... Homer Rocks

[Tumbleweed]

"davek" > wrote in message
...
> injuryprone:
> >Just got back from this years London to Brighton, having spent *3 HOURS*
> >at marshall point 115 waiting for a f*@%ing Halfords mechanic that
> >never turned up.
>
> Ouch. What was your difficulty?
>
> How was the ride apart from that? Hope you had fun and didn't get rained
on
> too much. My sister did it and complained about the crowds slowing her
> down - but then she was one of the many that walked up Ditchling Beacon.
>
> d.
>

The crowds were horrendous and at many places everyone had to get off and
wait, either because of the huge crowds walking up hills, or because of
waiting to cross a major road. Turners hill being one, that must have taken
me 20 mins to get through.
There were a couple of small hills I might have got up but couldnt due to
crowds, I walked Ditchling because I wasnt up to it. I might try LtB again
but I'll do it under my own steam rather than with the crowds which probably
added 2 - 3 hrs to my ride. I guess I spent about2 hrs in queues either
going up hills or at junctions. Glad I did it though even if it was hail and
freezing torrential rain for the last 2 hours (for me). Gonna do IOW next
time (later this summer).

--
Tumbleweed

Remove my socks for email address

[PK]

Tumbleweed wrote:
>>
> The crowds were horrendous and at many places everyone had to get off
> and wait, either because of the huge crowds walking up hills, or
> because of waiting to cross a major road. Turners hill being one,
> that must have taken me 20 mins to get through.
> There were a couple of small hills I might have got up but couldnt
> due to crowds, I walked Ditchling because I wasnt up to it. I might
> try LtB again but I'll do it under my own steam rather than with the
> crowds which probably added 2 - 3 hrs to my ride. I guess I spent
> about2 hrs in queues either going up hills or at junctions. Glad I
> did it though even if it was hail and freezing torrential rain for
> the last 2 hours (for me). Gonna do IOW next time (later this summer).

We had a better experience than that. Only 5/10 mins at Turner's hill and
all hills cycled even Ditchling which was not as tough as I'd expected from
all the horror tales - set of in bottom gear and just ground it out!
Ice-cream at the top was just about the best I've ever had.

We spent the worst of the rain in a pub in Ditchling!

pk

[Humpkin]

wrote:
> My chain snapped (actually it broke into a few little pieces). I don't
> carry a spare chain, although I think I might from now on.
> Regards, Mark



I know that you should be prepared and everything, but it does make me
wonder what kind of problems these mechanics could fix. One of the
cyclists in my group snapped his gear cable and they were unable to do
anything about that either.



--

[Aloysius]

injuryprone > wrote in message >...
> Just got back from this years London to Brighton, having spent *3 HOURS*
> at marshall point 115 waiting for a f*@%ing Halfords mechanic that
> never turned up.
>

May I suggest that you carry a few basic tools and learn how your
bicycle works? What happens when you ride more than five minutes walk
from home?

Cheers,
Al.

[Simonb]

injuryprone wrote:

> I don't carry a spare chain, although I think I might from now on.

You don't need to carry a whole chain, just carry a few spare links and
pins; and a chain breaker.

[MartinM]

Humpkin > wrote in message >...
> wrote:
> > My chain snapped (actually it broke into a few little pieces). I don't
> > carry a spare chain, although I think I might from now on.
> > Regards, Mark
>
>
>
> I know that you should be prepared and everything, but it does make me
> wonder what kind of problems these mechanics could fix. One of the
> cyclists in my group snapped his gear cable and they were unable to do
> anything about that either.

Did you all manage to get entered on the day? Some joker put an unused
number on my bike as I was on the train home from working night duty,
so I (ahem) used it!

[Jeremy Parker]

>
> My chain snapped (actually it broke into a few little pieces). I
don't
> carry a spare chain, although I think I might from now on.
>
> Regards,
> Mark

That sounds like a very weird accident. I do carry a chain rivet
tool, so I suppose I could fix it if it happened, but I don't think
such an accident ought to happen. I replace my chains before they
start wearing the sprockets badly enough for them to need replacing
too. That's less than 2000 miles nowadays, not much more than 1000
miles with a Shimano chain. What state was your chain in, and what
is your policy?

Jeremy Parker

[Terry D]

Jeremy Parker wrote:

>>My chain snapped (actually it broke into a few little pieces). I
>
> don't
>
>>carry a spare chain, although I think I might from now on.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Mark
>
>
> That sounds like a very weird accident. I do carry a chain rivet
> tool, so I suppose I could fix it if it happened, but I don't think
> such an accident ought to happen. I replace my chains before they
> start wearing the sprockets badly enough for them to need replacing
> too. That's less than 2000 miles nowadays, not much more than 1000
> miles with a Shimano chain. What state was your chain in, and what
> is your policy?
>
> Jeremy Parker
>
>

I'm glad somebody else thinks the same as me about replacement chains. I
have been laughed at for my policy of 1500 mile chain replacement
intervals. Not that I've ever managed to stick to 1500, it always gets
left for a few weeks and generally works out at 2000 mile intervals.
Never had one fail on me yet though.

Terry Duckmanton

[injuryprone]

Jeremy Parker wrote:
>>My chain snapped (actually it broke into a few little pieces). I
>> don't carry a spare chain, although I think I might from now on.
>
> That sounds like a very weird accident. I do carry a chain rivet
> tool, so I suppose I could fix it if it happened, but I don't think
> such an accident ought to happen. I replace my chains before they
> start wearing the sprockets badly enough for them to need replacing
> too. That's less than 2000 miles nowadays, not much more than 1000
> miles with a Shimano chain. What state was your chain in, and what
> is your policy?

Policy? You just set it for me. I've only been cycling "seriously" for a
about 18 months!

I'm gonna have to change every 2-3 months by your reckoning and my
current mileage!? I think a chat with the LBS is in order, I can't
believe shimano chains only last 1000 miles, that's pathetic, do you
*have* to put shimano chains on a shimano groupset (sora, please don't
laugh -- it is my first "proper" bike).

When do the cassette's need changing and (gulp) what about my cranksets ?

Regards,
Mark

[injuryprone]

Aloysius wrote:

> injuryprone > wrote in message >...
>
> May I suggest that you carry a few basic tools and learn how your
> bicycle works? What happens when you ride more than five minutes walk
> from home?

Are you trolling me? Or just sad and lonely?

[Pete Biggs]

injuryprone wrote:
> Jeremy Parker wrote:
>>> My chain snapped (actually it broke into a few little pieces). I
>>> don't carry a spare chain, although I think I might from now on.

Just a chain tool will do. Don't even need spare links. Just rejoin the
chain, getting rid of any duff links. A shorter chain than normal will
work, just take extra care to avoid the largest front sprocket with the
largest rear.

>> That sounds like a very weird accident. I do carry a chain rivet
>> tool, so I suppose I could fix it if it happened, but I don't think
>> such an accident ought to happen. I replace my chains before they
>> start wearing the sprockets badly enough for them to need replacing
>> too. That's less than 2000 miles nowadays, not much more than 1000
>> miles with a Shimano chain. What state was your chain in, and what
>> is your policy?

It is good to frequently replace chain for sake of sprockets but a chain
should not break just because it's well worn. There has to be something
else wrong with it.

> Policy? You just set it for me. I've only been cycling "seriously"
> for a about 18 months!
>
> I'm gonna have to change every 2-3 months by your reckoning and my
> current mileage!? I think a chat with the LBS is in order, I can't
> believe shimano chains only last 1000 miles, that's pathetic, do you
> *have* to put shimano chains on a shimano groupset (sora, please don't
> laugh -- it is my first "proper" bike).

Nevermind going by a set number of miles, the chain can be tested by
measuring instead. See http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html

> When do the cassette's need changing and (gulp) what about my
> cranksets ?

Cassette needs changing only when a new chain skips on it, same with
chainrings (front sprockets). Fortunately chainrings tend to last longer
because they're larger.

~PB

[Pete Biggs]

> injuryprone wrote:
>> do you
>> *have* to put shimano chains on a shimano groupset

$himano say so but you don't have to.

~PB

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:55:00 +0100, injuryprone >
wrote in message >:

>I'm gonna have to change every 2-3 months by your reckoning and my
>current mileage!? I think a chat with the LBS is in order, I can't
>believe shimano chains only last 1000 miles, that's pathetic, do you
>*have* to put shimano chains on a shimano groupset (sora, please don't
>laugh -- it is my first "proper" bike).
>When do the cassette's need changing and (gulp) what about my cranksets ?

You can use Sram chains which are cheaper and stronger and have the
nifty Powerlink. You can also maximise chain and cassette life by
having three chains and rotating them every couple of weeks, one on
the bike, one in the degreaser and one clean and oiled and ready to
go. Cassettes will last three chains using this technique. If you
change your chain when half-worn the cassette will last... about two
chains :-) So I don't think it's worth it. Run to 1/16" stretch over
12 full links (12" becomes 12 1/16") and then change the three chains
and the cassette. I have got 4,000 miles out of a chain and 8,000 out
of a cassette before without rotating by cleaning the chains every
week, but that is a faff.

I have a 9-speed Shimano setup on the 'bent, with three chans joined
end to end. I only have one set of chains. I have worn out two sets
(in just under two years of around 3,000 miles per year on the 'bent)
but that's not representative because my rear mech is so close to the
ground it gets covered in ****e, plus I ride in all weathers.

As to the rings, Shimano rings allegedly wear out, TA ones generally
don't. But they are not gated and flighted, so don't work as well
with brifters. Allegedly. All my bikes either have el-cheapo
chainsets or TA; neither have ever worn out apart from the inner ring
on my tourer, which lasted rwenty years, and the inner on the 'bent
which I hoooked climbing hills :-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 21:09:27 +0100, injuryprone >
wrote in message >:

>> May I suggest that you carry a few basic tools and learn how your
>> bicycle works? What happens when you ride more than five minutes walk
>> from home?

>Are you trolling me? Or just sad and lonely?

I carry a lot of tools. I've never been stranded. I've rescued a few
who have been stranded. YMMV...

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

[Ambrose Nankivell]

In ,
Just zis Guy, you know? > typed:
> As to the rings, Shimano rings allegedly wear out, TA ones generally
> don't. But they are not gated and flighted, so don't work as well
> with brifters. Allegedly. All my bikes either have el-cheapo
> chainsets or TA; neither have ever worn out apart from the inner ring
> on my tourer, which lasted rwenty years, and the inner on the 'bent
> which I hoooked climbing hills :-)

It's very important to make sure that chainrings don't get worn out, as in
my experience the bike is stolen within the month (replaced two chainsets in
my life, had 2 bikes stolen in my life).

A

[Simon Brooke]

in message >, injuryprone
') wrote:

> Jeremy Parker wrote:
>>>My chain snapped (actually it broke into a few little pieces). I
>>> don't carry a spare chain, although I think I might from now on.
>>
>> That sounds like a very weird accident. I do carry a chain rivet
>> tool, so I suppose I could fix it if it happened, but I don't think
>> such an accident ought to happen. I replace my chains before they
>> start wearing the sprockets badly enough for them to need replacing
>> too. That's less than 2000 miles nowadays, not much more than 1000
>> miles with a Shimano chain. What state was your chain in, and what
>> is your policy?
>
> Policy? You just set it for me. I've only been cycling "seriously" for
> a about 18 months!
>
> I'm gonna have to change every 2-3 months by your reckoning and my
> current mileage!? I think a chat with the LBS is in order, I can't
> believe shimano chains only last 1000 miles, that's pathetic, do you
> *have* to put shimano chains on a shimano groupset (sora, please don't
> laugh -- it is my first "proper" bike).

You can get chain stretch[1] gauges - mine is a Park Tools CC2 and cost
twenty quid, so not cheap initially - with which to monitor your
chains. I replace mine when they measure 0.75% over length. The rate of
wear is not a matter of miles cycled so much as a matter of how well
the chain is cared for and how much abrasive dust it is exposed to, so
you will find that in a year or two the chain gauge will have paid for
itself.

[1] the chain doesn't actually stretch, it wears, but stretch is a
convenient term.

> When do the cassette's need changing and (gulp) what about my
> cranksets ?

If you let your chain get beyond 0.75% enlongation you'll need to
replace your cassette. If you go past 0.1% you'll probably need to
replace your chain wheels as well.

<URL:http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?ProductID=5300001800>

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

'there are no solutions, only precipitates'

[injuryprone]

Ambrose Nankivell wrote:

> In ,
> Just zis Guy, you know? > typed:
>
>>As to the rings, Shimano rings allegedly wear out, TA ones generally
>>don't. But they are not gated and flighted, so don't work as well
>>with brifters. Allegedly. All my bikes either have el-cheapo
>>chainsets or TA; neither have ever worn out apart from the inner ring
>>on my tourer, which lasted rwenty years, and the inner on the 'bent
>>which I hoooked climbing hills :-)
>
>
> It's very important to make sure that chainrings don't get worn out, as in
> my experience the bike is stolen within the month (replaced two chainsets in
> my life, had 2 bikes stolen in my life).
>

It's beginning to feel more convenient and cheaper to buy a new bike
every year.... if one gets stolen... ;-)

Seriously, thanks to you all for your kind advice. The more you know the
more you realise you don't know...

Regards,
Mark

[Pete Biggs]

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
> If you
> change your chain when half-worn the cassette will last... about two
> chains :-)

That's pessimistic, I think. Chainrings will also last longer than with
the rotation method if you eventually wear the chains right out (and I
think that's the only way the method can be advantageous, financially).

> ...As to the rings, Shimano rings allegedly wear out, TA ones generally
> don't. But they are not gated and flighted, so don't work as well
> with brifters.

Gated and flighted? There are ramped and pinned TA rings.

~PB

[Pete Biggs]

Simon Brooke wrote:
> You can get chain stretch[1] gauges - mine is a Park Tools CC2 and
> cost twenty quid, so not cheap initially - with which to monitor your
> chains. I replace mine when they measure 0.75% over length.

Unfortunately the expensive Park Turkey CC-2 measures the wrong thing.

"The pertinent variable in chain wear is the pitch, which is
the distance between pivot pins. Many chain measuring
tools, such as the Park [CC-2] and Rohloff tools, try to measure
this by pushing in opposite directions on rollers a small
distance apart. Unfortunately, this technique introduces
the variables of roller diameter and roller/bushing
clearances, neither of which is uniform from one
manufacturer to the next. The variances in these variables,
even with new chains, can be larger than the differences in
pitch which these tools try to measure. These tools often
give widely varying readings on chain wear for different
brands and/or models of chains, even when the chains are
brand new."
- Mark McMaster, http://tinyurl.com/24a2l

I've found I can't even insert the guage into a brand new Campag C9 chain
to get a zero reading, yet it reads over 0.25 with a new SRAM. The
figures are useless unless you already know what they translate to from
measuring the chain with a ruler.
~PB

[Tony Raven]

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
>
> I carry a lot of tools. I've never been stranded. I've rescued a few
> who have been stranded. YMMV...
>

I don't carry a lot but I've got out of every situation that cycling has
thrown at me (including rebuilding a wheel in a hotel room) bar two. One was
when the inner chainring on the tandem folded going up a steep slope with
panniers and a Yak in tow. That one took a Swiss farmer with an angle grinder
to cut it off. The other was again in similar circumstances when one of the
rear gears shattered. A zip tie and derailleur adjustment got us to the local
bike shop but it took two of us and complete disassembly to get the old
freewheel off. With tandems you have to be prepared for repairing broken
stuff on the road.

Tony

[Dr Curious]

"Pete Biggs" > wrote in message
...

> Simon Brooke wrote:
> > You can get chain stretch[1] gauges - mine is a Park Tools CC2 and
> > cost twenty quid, so not cheap initially - with which to monitor your
> > chains. I replace mine when they measure 0.75% over length.
>
> Unfortunately the expensive Park Turkey CC-2 measures the wrong thing.


>
> "The pertinent variable in chain wear is the pitch, which is
> the distance between pivot pins. Many chain measuring
> tools, such as the Park [CC-2] and Rohloff tools, try to measure
> this by pushing in opposite directions on rollers a small
> distance apart. Unfortunately, this technique introduces
> the variables of roller diameter and roller/bushing
> clearances, neither of which is uniform from one
> manufacturer to the next. The variances in these variables,
> even with new chains, can be larger than the differences in
> pitch which these tools try to measure. These tools often
> give widely varying readings on chain wear for different
> brands and/or models of chains, even when the chains are
> brand new."
> - Mark McMaster, http://tinyurl.com/24a2l
>
> I've found I can't even insert the guage into a brand new Campag C9 chain
> to get a zero reading, yet it reads over 0.25 with a new SRAM. The
> figures are useless unless you already know what they translate to from
> measuring the chain with a ruler.
> ~PB
>
...

Providing you have access to a drill stand, a 5mm* drill bit some
odd lengths of 2/2, and most tricky probably, some matching 5mm* diameter
mild steel or aluminium rod, it shouldn't be too difficult to knock
something up to measure this. I.e drill two holes approx 360 mm** apart
so that when the piece of wood is offered up from underneath the short
mild steel pegs which you've fitted in the holes are a tight fit going
though the new chain. Then drill another pair of holes 363 mm apart.
To indicate 1% wear. Or drill holes to taste. And keep offering these
up from underneath to indicate whether the chain has stretched to the
requisite amount.
You may need use drill quite a few sets of holes if you don't have
access to precision drilling equipment. And just use the ones which
measure closest.

You might need to do this for each new chain if you change brands
etc.

* the diameter could probably be smaller according to availability,
of matching drill bits and steel rod, as the primary requirement is
the tightness of the pegs to the inside surfaces of the rollers at
either end and the tightness of the pegs in the drilled holes. Basically
what your're measuring is stretch in each particular chain, on a chain
by chain basis.

** Variable according to the length of the chainstay. The piece of
wood is approx 40mm longer.

I think this should suffice.


Curious

[David Martin]

On 21/6/04 10:35 pm, in article
, "Simon Brooke"
> wrote:

> You can get chain stretch[1] gauges - mine is a Park Tools CC2 and cost
> twenty quid, so not cheap initially

Mine cost about 60p. It's a WHSmith shatterproof.

...d

[Tony Raven]

Dr Curious wrote:
> ..
>
> Providing you have access to a drill stand, a 5mm* drill bit some
> odd lengths of 2/2, and most tricky probably, some matching 5mm* diameter
> mild steel or aluminium rod, it shouldn't be too difficult to knock
> something up to measure this.

That's a load of faff when a steel ruler held against the side plates of the
chain under tension tells you immediately what the stretch is.

Tony

[injuryprone]

<flame>
I think the original point has been lost here. I am not a cycle mechanic,
nor do I want to become one. My LBS have those. I entered an organised ride
WITH MECHANICS, one would expect them to actually TURN UP.

A ride with 27,500 cyclists was supported by *2* mechanics, who turned up at
the start 2 HOURS LATE, operating from a car (along a 50 mile route *full*
of cyclists) and had no important parts, for example; no 700 tubes, nuts,
chains.

If I was told this I would have made my own arrangements; instead I walked 2
miles to a service point, waited 3 hours, in the rain, after being assured
that a mechanic was "on his way". HE NEVER ARRIVED. The marshalls were nice
guys but pretty ill-informed and ineffectual. In retrospect I'd have been
better calling a cab or walking the 10 miles to the finish line, in cleats,
over Ditchling hill. BHF do carry some of the blame for this, but frankly if
the numerous service points along the route actually had any mechaincs at
them (they didn't) there wouldn't have been a problem.

I am not a fool, when I go on a long ride (and I do around 100 miles a
week) I take a phone and some money, a spare tyre, a puncture repair kit a
multitool and now I'll take a chaintool too and some links. I don't enter
Audaxes because I recognise that I am not entirely self-sufficient and my
knowledge of cycle maintenance is limited, I am a CYCLIST not an engineer.
If you think this is a bad attitude then we'll never agree.

HALFORDS LET 27,500 PEOPLE DOWN.
</flame>

Regards,
Mark


"Tony Raven" > wrote in message
...
> Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
> >
> > I carry a lot of tools. I've never been stranded. I've rescued a few
> > who have been stranded. YMMV...
> >
>
> I don't carry a lot but I've got out of every situation that cycling has
> thrown at me (including rebuilding a wheel in a hotel room) bar two. One
was
> when the inner chainring on the tandem folded going up a steep slope with
> panniers and a Yak in tow. That one took a Swiss farmer with an angle
grinder
> to cut it off. The other was again in similar circumstances when one of
the
> rear gears shattered. A zip tie and derailleur adjustment got us to the
local
> bike shop but it took two of us and complete disassembly to get the old
> freewheel off. With tandems you have to be prepared for repairing broken
> stuff on the road.

[Dr Curious]

"Tony Raven" > wrote in message
...
> Dr Curious wrote:
> > ..
> >
> > Providing you have access to a drill stand, a 5mm* drill bit some
> > odd lengths of 2/2, and most tricky probably, some matching 5mm*
diameter
> > mild steel or aluminium rod, it shouldn't be too difficult to knock
> > something up to measure this.
>
> That's a load of faff when a steel ruler held against the side plates of
the
> chain under tension tells you immediately what the stretch is.
>
> Tony
>
>

Providing you've got good enough eysight.

Your day will come.


Curious

[dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers]

>I think the original point has been lost here. I am not a cycle mechanic,
>nor do I want to become one. My LBS have those. I entered an organised ride
>WITH MECHANICS, one would expect them to actually TURN UP.

I was about to make the same point but not flaming it though :-)

It matters naught that the regulars here on the NG are all excellent bike
mechanics, fair-to-middling bike mechanics or whatever. The point is that if
H*lf*rds promised to provide bike mechanics for the event and didn't, it is
entirely reasonable to have expected them to turn up and able to deal with
emergency repairs to the bike of an entrant. After all, the L2B isn't a bike
race, it's supposed to be a fun event for charity of the type to get people on
bikes who may not do such an event if it was a race.

Yet another black mark for H*lf*rds in my book.

Cheers, helen s




--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
**$om $

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

[MartinM]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" > wrote in message >...
> On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 21:09:27 +0100, injuryprone >
> wrote in message >:
>
> >> May I suggest that you carry a few basic tools and learn how your
> >> bicycle works? What happens when you ride more than five minutes walk
> >> from home?
>
> >Are you trolling me? Or just sad and lonely?
>
> I carry a lot of tools. I've never been stranded. I've rescued a few
> who have been stranded. YMMV...
>
> Guy

Is it a bird, is it a plane? no it's:

Bicycle Repair Man!

with apols to M Python ;-)

[MartinM]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" > wrote in message >...
> On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 21:09:27 +0100, injuryprone >
> wrote in message >:
>
> >> May I suggest that you carry a few basic tools and learn how your
> >> bicycle works? What happens when you ride more than five minutes walk
> >> from home?
>
> >Are you trolling me? Or just sad and lonely?
>
> I carry a lot of tools. I've never been stranded. I've rescued a few
> who have been stranded. YMMV...
>
> Guy

http://www.ibras.dk/montypython/episode03.htm#3

[Aloysius]

injuryprone > wrote in message >...
> Aloysius wrote:
>
> > injuryprone > wrote in message >...
> >
> > May I suggest that you carry a few basic tools and learn how your
> > bicycle works? What happens when you ride more than five minutes walk
> > from home?
>
> Are you trolling me? Or just sad and lonely?

Oh, I can assure you that I am neither. But I carry a very small bag
of basic tools and spares that I know how to use, and I have never
been stranded. Nor have I ever felt that it is someone elses fault
that my bike has broken.

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

MartinM wrote:

>> I carry a lot of tools. I've never been stranded. I've rescued a
>> few who have been stranded. YMMV...

> Is it a bird, is it a plane? no it's:
> Bicycle Repair Man!

Careful, you'll have the Python Police down on you.

I have undoubtedly rescued more stranded cyclists with my on-bike toolkit
than I have effected running repairs to my own bike, though.

I carry, among other things:

- allen keys
- chain tool
- puncture kit
- tyre levers
- pump
- spare tubes, 28x406, usless for most people :-)
- 8 & 10mm spanners
- pliers
- micro maglite
- spare lamps for dynamo headlight
- Park tyre boot
- zip ties
- socket-type screwdriver with assorted bits
- hand wipes

All of which weighs a fair bit, but allows me to fix minor problems with the
bits fitted to my bike. If necessary. Usually I notice them before riding,
so I could easily leave the tools behind, but you know what would happen
then, don't you?

--
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

[Tony Raven]

Dr Curious wrote:
>
> Providing you've got good enough eysight.
>

If you ain't go the eyesight you will have the same or more trouble marking up
and making your device

> Your day will come.
>

My arms are growing shorter by the day ;-)

Tony

[injuryprone]

"Aloysius" > wrote in
message om...
> injuryprone > wrote in message
>...
> > Aloysius wrote:
> >
> > > injuryprone > wrote in message
>...
> > >
> > > May I suggest that you carry a few basic tools and learn how your
> > > bicycle works? What happens when you ride more than five minutes walk
> > > from home?
> >
> > Are you trolling me? Or just sad and lonely?
>
> Oh, I can assure you that I am neither. But I carry a very small bag
> of basic tools and spares that I know how to use, and I have never
> been stranded. Nor have I ever felt that it is someone elses fault
> that my bike has broken.

If only we were all as perfect. I don't recall blaming anyone for my chain
breaking. Just pointing out that the support structure that was promised
didn't materialise. Halfords did not turn up. If I had been out on my normal
50k ride and my chain snapped I would not have posted a message to complain
about Halfords, I'd ring my wife or walk home. You have missed my original
point, completely.

As it happens, I now have an sram chain on my bike (thanks to some
constructive advice received in this forum) , spare links, a couple of spare
powerlinks, a bit of bent spoke and a chain tool, no doubt you will commend
this.

Perhaps you could be more constructive and describe what's in your little
bag, rather than making false assumptions and patronising someone you know
nothing about?

[davek]

Dr Curious:
> Providing you have access to a drill stand, a 5mm* drill bit some
> odd lengths of 2/2, and most tricky probably, some matching 5mm* diameter
> mild steel or aluminium rod, it shouldn't be too difficult to knock
> something up to measure this.

I use a steel ruler.

d.

[davek]

injuryprone:
> I am not a cycle mechanic,
> nor do I want to become one.

You'd rather stand in the rain for three hours to prove a point? Fair
enough.

One thing I don't understand - if you normally take tools/spares out with
you on your rides, why didn't you this time? That's even more perverse than
standing in the rain for three hours for no good reason.

Anyway, it's all very well ranting about it on a newsgroup, but wouldn't you
be better off writing to the BHF and/or Halfords to express your concerns?
Given that you have posted your concerns on a newsgroup, try not to get
upset when people make helpful suggestions.

d.

[davek]

Guy:
> Usually I notice them before riding,
> so I could easily leave the tools behind, but you know what would happen
> then, don't you?

Indeed. Not taking tools/spares is tantamount to thumbing your nose at the
Puncture Fairy. And all long rides should be preceeded with the ritual
sacrifice of an inner tube by way of appeasement.

It works for me.

d.

[davek]

Tony Raven:
> If you ain't go the eyesight you will have the same or more trouble
marking up
> and making your device

And if your eyes are that bad, should you even be allowed on a bike anyway?
Sounds a bit dangerous to me.

d.

[Simonb]

injuryprone wrote:

> Perhaps you could be more constructive and describe what's in your
> little bag

1 x tube
1 x Tip Top puncture kit
2 x Cable ties (as of today, a tip picked up on this here internet group)
1 x gear cable
1 x brake cable
2 x CO2 cylinders and valve
Multi-tool -- includes chain tool; spoke spanner; tyre levers; flat-head and
cross-head screwdrivers; pliers; cable cutter and various allen keys
1x M4/5/6 bolt
Spare chain links/pin
Cassette cracker
Spare spoke and nipple

Anything I should/needn't be carrying? This comes on every ride: shopping,
commuting, whatever. I'd rather be able to fix something than have to return
home, walk, inconvenience someone else, or be late for work because of the
additional weight incurred, which is minimal and, quite frankly, I could
lose by eating less. But that's another story.

[Simonb]

Simonb wrote:

> Anything I should/needn't be carrying? This comes on every ride:
> shopping, commuting, whatever. I'd rather be able to fix something
> than have to return home, walk, inconvenience someone else, or be
> late for work *just to avoid* the additional weight incurred, which is
> minimal and, quite frankly, I could lose by eating less. But that's
> another story.

Simon Brooke is right -- I really ought to try harder with my English.

[Dr Curious]

"Tony Raven" > wrote in message
...
> Dr Curious wrote:
> >
> > Providing you've got good enough eysight.
> >
>
> If you ain't go the eyesight you will have the same or more
> trouble marking up and making your device

Oh really?

Standing at a bench using an appropriately placed flourescent
light and using appropriate magnification, anyone can work to
far closer limits than they can scrabbling around with a steel
ruler one foot off of the floor under often less than optimal lighting
conditions.

Or hadn't you thought of that?

Unless of you lump the bike onto a bench every time you want to
take a measuremnt. And given that you're measuring in half
millimetres it would be intersting to know what dedvice you
use to secure the steel rule to the chain so as to prevent
slippage.

If you make a guague such as that suggested and use the same type
of chain - you'll know because the pegs will be a snug fit in the
new chain - you'll only have to do this once, and it offers a far
quicker means of checking than humping the bike about, getting oil
on your steel rule, trying to keep the rule steady, and then having
to clean it off etc.

Never thought of any of that either, did you?


Curious

....


>
> > Your day will come.
> >
>
> My arms are growing shorter by the day ;-)
>
> Tony
>

>
>

[Dr Curious]

"davek" > wrote in message
...
> Tony Raven:
> > If you ain't go the eyesight you will have the same or more trouble
> marking up
> > and making your device
>
> And if your eyes are that bad, should you even be allowed on a
> bike anyway? Sounds a bit dangerous to me.

No. I think you'll find that unless you're mainly interested in
reading the fine print on the tax discs of passing vehicles, long
sightedness or "hyperopia" as we experts of long standing (2 mins)
prefer to call it, is of no real disadvantage when riding a bike.

Hope this helps



Curious

....





>
> d.
>
>

[David Martin]

On 22/6/04 1:22 pm, in article , "Dr Curious"
> wrote:

> And given that you're measuring in half
> millimetres it would be intersting to know what dedvice you
> use to secure the steel rule to the chain so as to prevent
> slippage.

I'm not, I'm measuring in 1/32nds of an inch.

Assuming the chain is not on the bike..

A piece of wire through the hole at the end. Hold tightly in the appropriate
place on the rule. hold so the chain hangs vertically. Read off the 12"
measurement.

No problem at all.
If the chain is still on the bike, measure 12/14/16/18 links as space allows
by direct alignment of the rule with the chain.

Yes you may not be accurate to 0.1mm but:

1) you are sufficiently accurate
2) the tool is ubiquitous and can be applied to any chain
3) It is easy.
4) It is cheap


...d

[Simon Brooke]

in message >, Just zis Guy, you know?
') wrote:

> MartinM wrote:
>
>>> I carry a lot of tools. I've never been stranded. I've rescued a
>>> few who have been stranded. YMMV...
>
>> Is it a bird, is it a plane? no it's:
>> Bicycle Repair Man!
>
> Careful, you'll have the Python Police down on you.
>
> I have undoubtedly rescued more stranded cyclists with my on-bike
> toolkit than I have effected running repairs to my own bike, though.
>
> I carry, among other things:
>
> - allen keys
Alien
> - chain tool
Alien
> - puncture kit
Check
> - tyre levers
Check
> - pump
Airstick
> - spare tubes, 28x406, usless for most people :-)
27x1 and 26x2, since I use the same bar bag on all my bikes
> - 8 & 10mm spanners
Alien. 8 and 10 ring spanners, 8 and 15mm open ended.
> - pliers
Alien
> - micro maglite
No (would be useful).
> - spare lamps for dynamo headlight
No.
> - Park tyre boot
No.
> - zip ties
Check.
> - socket-type screwdriver with assorted bits
Alien. flat, crosshead and torx heads.
> - hand wipes
Check.

+ plasters
+ anti-septic wipes
+ triangular bandage
+ wound dressing

Also on the Alien, spoke keys, file, knife and, obscurely, bottle opener
- all in at 278 grammes. The airstick is 150 grammes. The puncture kit
is 28 grammes and a set of three tyre levers (there's another on the
Alien) is 32 grammes.

> All of which weighs a fair bit, but allows me to fix minor problems
> with the bits fitted to my bike.

It doesn't seem to me that 500 odd grammes (plus two spare tubes at
about 100 grammes each) is a lot of weight to carry. A kevlar spoke or
two would be good things to add.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

'You cannot put "The Internet" into the Recycle Bin.'

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

Simonb wrote: a list

Oh yes, I have a spoke key as well. Ancient cast steel one, weighs a
ridiculous amount for sucha tiny thing, but used it to bodge a Shimano
allen-head crank bolt once, and of course it figured in the historic rescue
of the Phantom Mech Mangler of the Phoenix Trail.

--
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

[Dr Curious]

"Simon Brooke" > wrote in message
...
> in message >, Just zis Guy, you know?
> ') wrote:
>
> > MartinM wrote:
> >
> >>> I carry a lot of tools. I've never been stranded. I've rescued a
> >>> few who have been stranded. YMMV...
>
> + plasters
> + anti-septic wipes
> + triangular bandage
> + wound dressing

plus an organ donor card presumably




Curious

>
> --
> (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
>
> 'You cannot put "The Internet" into the Recycle Bin.'
>

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

Simon Brooke wrote:

> Alien

(several times)

Not really into the multitools. Not sure why. I guess it's because I have
not had to buy any of the bike tools I carry, except the allen keys, and
that was only because I found the set on the dangly ring thing to be
inconvenient in a wedge pack :-)

> It doesn't seem to me that 500 odd grammes (plus two spare tubes at
> about 100 grammes each) is a lot of weight to carry. A kevlar spoke or
> two would be good things to add.

I would be tempted if it weren't for the fact that I have never broken a
spoke, ever. (looks over shoulder for signs of spoke fairy). All my wheels
are handbuilt by Robert, to coin a phrase.

--
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

[davek]

Dr Curious:
> long
> sightedness or "hyperopia" as we experts of long standing (2 mins)
> prefer to call it, is of no real disadvantage when riding a bike.

Ah. I see. ;)

d.

[Helen Deborah Vecht]

"Tumbleweed" >typed


> The crowds were horrendous and at many places everyone had to get off and
> wait, either because of the huge crowds walking up hills, or because of
> waiting to cross a major road.

'Twas ever thus...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

[MartinM]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" > wrote in message

> I have undoubtedly rescued more stranded cyclists with my on-bike toolkit
> than I have effected running repairs to my own bike, though.
>
> I carry, among other things:
>
> - allen keys
> - chain tool
> - puncture kit
> - tyre levers
> - pump
> - spare tubes, 28x406, usless for most people :-)
> - 8 & 10mm spanners
> - pliers
> - micro maglite
> - spare lamps for dynamo headlight
> - Park tyre boot
> - zip ties
> - socket-type screwdriver with assorted bits
> - hand wipes

A couple of other things I could have done with in the past:
>- SRAM powerlink
>- Rear gear hanger (a generic Shimano type one will do just wedge it
in between the drop out and skewer and ride in 3rd using the front 3
rings)

[Helen Deborah Vecht]

David Martin >typed

> Mine cost about 60p. It's a WHSmith shatterproof.

I think Woolies do them cheaper, spendthrift! :-)

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

[Helen Deborah Vecht]

"injuryprone" >typed


> I am not a fool, when I go on a long ride (and I do around 100 miles a
> week) I take a phone and some money, a spare tyre, a puncture repair kit a
> multitool and now I'll take a chaintool too and some links. I don't enter
> Audaxes because I recognise that I am not entirely self-sufficient and my
> knowledge of cycle maintenance is limited, I am a CYCLIST not an engineer.
> If you think this is a bad attitude then we'll never agree.

Tip for all travellers:
Always enter phone numbers of local cab firms into you mobile.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

[Helen Deborah Vecht]

"davek" >typed


> Guy:
> > Usually I notice them before riding,
> > so I could easily leave the tools behind, but you know what would happen
> > then, don't you?

> Indeed. Not taking tools/spares is tantamount to thumbing your nose at the
> Puncture Fairy. And all long rides should be preceeded with the ritual
> sacrifice of an inner tube by way of appeasement.

Charms for the long-distance cyclist

Sunscreen... Rain guaranteed
Pump & puncture stuff: Probably no use for you but might help a fellow rider
Waterproof clothes: won't be needed

If you forget these charms, you will return home sunburnt and wet,
following a visit from the P*nct*r* F***y

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

[injuryprone]

davek wrote:
> injuryprone:
> One thing I don't understand - if you normally take tools/spares out with
> you on your rides, why didn't you this time? That's even more perverse than
> standing in the rain for three hours for no good reason.

I didn't have a chaintool. I wasn't making a point. I was unable to fix
my problem. I was relying on the mechanics having turned up. I wasn;'t
complaining that my chain had snapped, I wasn't complaining that I was
unable to fix it. I was complaining that the mechaincs hadn't turned up.

Maybe I'm different, but when I say I'll do something I follow through.
I wouldn;t turn round to those that depended on me and say "you should
be able to do it yourself, so it's ok I didn't bother to turn up".

> Anyway, it's all very well ranting about it on a newsgroup, but wouldn't you
> be better off writing to the BHF and/or Halfords to express your concerns?
> Given that you have posted your concerns on a newsgroup, try not to get
> upset when people make helpful suggestions.

I have written to the BHF, it will arrive with the money I raised for my
efforts.

I really appreciate the helpful, cycling related, advice I've got from
the likes of Pete Biggs, Guy etc.

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

injuryprone wrote:

> I didn't have a chaintool. I wasn't making a point. I was unable to
> fix my problem. I was relying on the mechanics having turned up.

Which is entirely fair, given the claim that there would be mechanics.
OTOH, you can't rely on that happening every time - even when advertised, as
we see. So I would be inclined to take the tools anyway.

But then, since I was repairing cars years before I could legally drive them
(and rebuilding Sturmey Archer three-speeds long before that), it's not a
big surprise that I don't mind rolling my sleeves up and having a go.

--
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

[Tony Raven]

injuryprone wrote:
>
> If only we were all as perfect. I don't recall blaming anyone for my chain
> breaking. Just pointing out that the support structure that was promised
> didn't materialise. Halfords did not turn up. If I had been out on my normal
> 50k ride and my chain snapped I would not have posted a message to complain
> about Halfords, I'd ring my wife or walk home. You have missed my original
> point, completely.
>

I'm surprised that none of the marshalls or passing cyclists were able to
help. When I've been on similar events I've stopped to help if I see a
cyclist with problems. With all those people going past there must have been
on with a chain tool and knowledge. It should be 5 mins max to effect a
running repair of that sort of failure although if there are several links out
you might have ended up with restrictive gears. Halfords may have been
deficient but so where the marshalls and other riders from what you have said.

Tony

[Tony Raven]

Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:
>
> Charms for the long-distance cyclist
>
> Sunscreen... Rain guaranteed

Tough one that, Sunscreen - rain guaranteed; no suncree - bad sunburn
guaranteed. Which do you go for?

Tony

[Tony Raven]

davek wrote:
>
> And if your eyes are that bad, should you even be allowed on a bike anyway?
> Sounds a bit dangerous to me.
>

I've been on CTC rides with an elderly guy from Cambridge with tunnel vision.
He was in his 80's and did weekly mileage that put me to shame. He had to
plan his routes to do only left turns as he could not rely on peripheral
vision to cross lanes of traffic. On the CTC runs he would be shepherded
across right turns by several riders. I wouldn't deny him his cycling and he
was well aware of and allowed for his visual impairment.

Tony

[Tony Raven]

Dr Curious wrote:
> "Tony Raven" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Dr Curious wrote:
>>>
>>> Providing you've got good enough eysight.
>>>
>>
>> If you ain't go the eyesight you will have the same or more
>> trouble marking up and making your device
>
> Oh really?
>
> Standing at a bench using an appropriately placed flourescent
> light and using appropriate magnification, anyone can work to
> far closer limits than they can scrabbling around with a steel
> ruler one foot off of the floor under often less than optimal lighting
> conditions.
>
> Or hadn't you thought of that?
>
> Unless of you lump the bike onto a bench every time you want to
> take a measuremnt. And given that you're measuring in half
> millimetres it would be intersting to know what dedvice you
> use to secure the steel rule to the chain so as to prevent
> slippage.
>
> If you make a guague such as that suggested and use the same type
> of chain - you'll know because the pegs will be a snug fit in the
> new chain - you'll only have to do this once, and it offers a far
> quicker means of checking than humping the bike about, getting oil
> on your steel rule, trying to keep the rule steady, and then having
> to clean it off etc.
>
> Never thought of any of that either, did you?
>
>
> Curious
>
> ...
>
>
>>
>>> Your day will come.
>>>
>>
>> My arms are growing shorter by the day ;-)
>>
>> Tony

[injuryprone]

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

> injuryprone wrote:
>
>
>>I didn't have a chaintool. I wasn't making a point. I was unable to
>>fix my problem. I was relying on the mechanics having turned up.
>
>
> Which is entirely fair, given the claim that there would be mechanics.
> OTOH, you can't rely on that happening every time - even when advertised, as
> we see. So I would be inclined to take the tools anyway.
>
> But then, since I was repairing cars years before I could legally drive them
> (and rebuilding Sturmey Archer three-speeds long before that), it's not a
> big surprise that I don't mind rolling my sleeves up and having a go.
>
Thanks to the advice I received I indeed spent an hour this morning at
my LBS being taught how to fix new chain, get length right, take links
out, use powerlink (10 minutes of frustration and then that epiphany
when you "get it"), put links back together.

Also learn't some subtleties of my shifters, which you guys will know
about but which have made my day (half-shift 'click' to move front
derrailleur). I can now ride around silently and creep up on people,
which is kind of a negative really!.

I will carry my shiny new chaintool, powerlinks and bent spoke
(hopefully I'll ever need to use them), looking at the list of tools you
guys carry I could end up with a fairly heavy bag of tricks....

Kind of depressing when you've lost 5kg of weight to make hills easier
to then laden yourself down with tools; but even Lance can't climb hills
without a chain... can't descend without brakes (safely at least)...

If I appear to be stubborn and argumentative then my posts are not read
in the spirit they're written. I do react badly when I'm patronised, ego
thing I guess.

I've put the whole L2B thing down as a learning experience and feel
better for it. And from what I've been told Ditchling hill is no worse
than Pitch hill back home, there's always next year. And that
bike-events website has inspired my Autumn.

Halfords should have turned up though.... ;-)

Kind regards,
Mark

[Tony Raven]

Dr Curious wrote:
>
> Standing at a bench using an appropriately placed flourescent
> light and using appropriate magnification, anyone can work to
> far closer limits than they can scrabbling around with a steel
> ruler one foot off of the floor under often less than optimal lighting
> conditions.
>
> Or hadn't you thought of that?
>

Don't let me hold you back from spending hours building your gauge but I bet I
can measure to a higher accuracy in those conditions than you can build
without access to an accurate indexing stage on a press drill. I would avoid
using wood as well because its too easy for the give of the wood to allow a
tilt on your pegs, rendering the whole thing imprecise and for the pegs to
push the links together if the chain is stretched

Personally I've never had a problem reading the ruler. YMMV


> Unless of you lump the bike onto a bench every time you want to
> take a measuremnt. And given that you're measuring in half
> millimetres it would be intersting to know what dedvice you
> use to secure the steel rule to the chain so as to prevent
> slippage.
>

You don't need to measure to half millimetres. One mm or 1/32" is quite good
enough. Personally I put the right crank forward, elbow on the pedal to
tension the chain, left and right hands to hold the ruler on the chain and
read off the distance at 12"

> If you make a guague such as that suggested and use the same type
> of chain - you'll know because the pegs will be a snug fit in the
> new chain - you'll only have to do this once, and it offers a far
> quicker means of checking than humping the bike about, getting oil
> on your steel rule, trying to keep the rule steady, and then having
> to clean it off etc.

Different makes of chain, different size rollers, slop in the roller bearings,
inaccuracy in your jig, give in your jig.

>
> Never thought of any of that either, did you?
>

Quite clearly neither have you in your desire to avoid the KISS principle.

Tony

[Simon Brooke]

in message >, Just zis Guy, you know?
') wrote:

> Simon Brooke wrote:
>
>> Alien
>
> Not really into the multitools. Not sure why. I guess it's because I
> have not had to buy any of the bike tools I carry, except the allen
> keys, and that was only because I found the set on the dangly ring
> thing to be inconvenient in a wedge pack :-)

I agree that the multitools are a bit gimmicky, but you get a lot of
functionality in a small, neat, relatively light package.

>> It doesn't seem to me that 500 odd grammes (plus two spare tubes at
>> about 100 grammes each) is a lot of weight to carry. A kevlar spoke
>> or two would be good things to add.
>
> I would be tempted if it weren't for the fact that I have never broken
> a spoke, ever. (looks over shoulder for signs of spoke fairy). All
> my wheels are handbuilt by Robert, to coin a phrase.

I've never broken one either, but if you are up in the hills miles from
anywhere and break one it could be a long walk out.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
; ... of course nothing said here will be taken notice of by
; the W3C. The official place to be ignored is on www-style or
; www-html. -- George Lund

[injuryprone]

Tony Raven wrote:

> injuryprone wrote:

> I'm surprised that none of the marshalls or passing cyclists were able to
> help. When I've been on similar events I've stopped to help if I see a
> cyclist with problems. With all those people going past there must have been
> on with a chain tool and knowledge. It should be 5 mins max to effect a
> running repair of that sort of failure although if there are several links out
> you might have ended up with restrictive gears. Halfords may have been
> deficient but so where the marshalls and other riders from what you have said.

Yeah, I agree. The "last stop before ditchling hill" (title for my
forthcoming novel) didn't see too many cycling "enthusiasts" though, *I*
ended up fixing a lady cyclist's puncture at one point....

On the other hand, I didn't ask anyone; another lesson learnt. I'm not
normally so shy and retiring...

[Tony Raven]

Simon Brooke wrote:
>
> I've never broken one either, but if you are up in the hills miles from
> anywhere and break one it could be a long walk out.

I have two essential toolkits. One is the Topeak toolkit for fixing the bike,
the other is the mobile phone for when it can't be fixed.

Tony

[Clive George]

"Simon Brooke" > wrote in message
...

> > I would be tempted if it weren't for the fact that I have never broken
> > a spoke, ever. (looks over shoulder for signs of spoke fairy). All
> > my wheels are handbuilt by Robert, to coin a phrase.
>
> I've never broken one either, but if you are up in the hills miles from
> anywhere and break one it could be a long walk out.

Broken spoke shouldn't mean a long walk out. I've survived 2 broken ones on
the MTB tandem before now (failure due to chain attack). I do however carry
a spoke key.

cheers,
clive

[Tony Raven]

Clive George wrote:
> "Simon Brooke" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>> I would be tempted if it weren't for the fact that I have never broken
>>> a spoke, ever. (looks over shoulder for signs of spoke fairy). All
>>> my wheels are handbuilt by Robert, to coin a phrase.
>>
>> I've never broken one either, but if you are up in the hills miles from
>> anywhere and break one it could be a long walk out.
>
> Broken spoke shouldn't mean a long walk out. I've survived 2 broken ones on
> the MTB tandem before now (failure due to chain attack). I do however carry
> a spoke key.
>

But with a spoke key in the toolkit you can get the worst of the wheel
distortion out which is better than disconnecting the brakes so they don't rub
the distorted rim. I also had a rim failure which was not directly repairable
but the local bike shop sold me a new rim and I sat and rebuilt the wheel
thanks to the spoke key. The alternative would have been to leave the old
wheel with expensive hub and disc and replace it with a new wheel with no disc
(no disc compatible wheels in the shop), hang around for a few days for a
replacement/shop rebuild or abandon the trip. As it was I was able to rebuild
overnight and continue the next day (also sorting out a couple of other riders
who's wheels had gone out of true on an off-road section on the way.

Tony

[Mark South]

"Tony Raven" > wrote in message
...
> Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:
> >
> > Charms for the long-distance cyclist
> >
> > Sunscreen... Rain guaranteed
>
> Tough one that, Sunscreen - rain guaranteed; no suncreen - bad sunburn
> guaranteed. Which do you go for?

Rain stops hurting after you get dry and warm. Good sunburn will keep you in
pain for days. Besides, the sunscreen still stops the rain from drying out your
skin :-)
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

[Pete Biggs]

Tony Raven wrote:
> Clive George wrote:
>> Broken spoke shouldn't mean a long walk out. I've survived 2 broken
>> ones on the MTB tandem before now (failure due to chain attack). I
>> do however carry a spoke key.
>
> But with a spoke key in the toolkit you can get the worst of the wheel
> distortion out which is better than disconnecting the brakes so they
> don't rub the distorted rim.

Absolutely, a spoke key is one of the most important tools to carry. In
fact some wheels with a broken spoke won't even go round in some
close-clearance frames until the wheel is trued.

> I also had a rim failure which was not
> directly repairable but the local bike shop sold me a new rim and I
> sat and rebuilt the wheel thanks to the spoke key.

Blimey, that's good.

> The alternative
> would have been to leave the old wheel with expensive hub and disc
> and replace it with a new wheel with no disc (no disc compatible
> wheels in the shop), hang around for a few days for a
> replacement/shop rebuild or abandon the trip. As it was I was able
> to rebuild overnight and continue the next day

Oh I see. I had visions of you rebuilding the wheel by the roadside in
half an hour flat :-) Still very well done.

~PB

[Dr Curious]

"Tony Raven" > wrote in message
...
> Dr Curious wrote:
> >
> > Standing at a bench using an appropriately placed flourescent
> > light and using appropriate magnification, anyone can work to
> > far closer limits than they can scrabbling around with a steel
> > ruler one foot off of the floor under often less than optimal lighting
> > conditions.
> >
> > Or hadn't you thought of that?
> >
>
> Don't let me hold you back from spending hours building your gauge but I
bet I
> can measure to a higher accuracy in those conditions than you can build
> without access to an accurate indexing stage on a press drill.

Of course. But you have to measure innumerable times. I only have to make
one gaugue. Well two, a reference gauge for new chains and worn chain
gaugue derived from this. This only requires working out a simple jig
and drilling a few holes. A half hours work at most

....

> I would avoid
> using wood as well because its too easy for the give of the wood to allow
a
> tilt on your pegs, rendering the whole thing imprecise and for the pegs
to
> push the links together if the chain is stretched

....

No I specified 2x2 wood if you remember. The pegs are located in inch
deep perpendicular holes drilled on the drill press. A good push fit.
Its the sizing of the steel rod and the drill bit which is most critical
as mentioned earlier. Under normal climatc conditions wood normally
moves across its width(grain) not along its length. Hence the use of
wood for rulers.

....

>
> Personally I've never had a problem reading the ruler. YMMV
>

....

Attempting to slide the pegs up through the chain is far simpler
and gives a definite result.

....
>
> > Unless of you lump the bike onto a bench every time you want to
> > take a measuremnt. And given that you're measuring in half
> > millimetres it would be intersting to know what dedvice you
> > use to secure the steel rule to the chain so as to prevent
> > slippage.
> >
>
> You don't need to measure to half millimetres. One mm or 1/32" is
> quite good enough. Personally I put the right crank forward, elbow
> on the pedal to tension the chain, left and right hands to hold the
> ruler on the chain and read off the distance at 12"

....

Yes this all very well providing your glasses don't steam up.

And I don't want to sound picky, but that would be 12" would it not?

....
>
> > If you make a guague such as that suggested and use the same type
> > of chain - you'll know because the pegs will be a snug fit in the
> > new chain - you'll only have to do this once, and it offers a far
> > quicker means of checking than humping the bike about, getting oil
> > on your steel rule, trying to keep the rule steady, and then having
> > to clean it off etc.
>
> Different makes of chain, different size rollers, slop in the roller
> bearings, inaccuracy in your jig, give in your jig.

....

Why would anybody except fashion victims want to carry on buying
different makes of chain ?

And in any case once you've made and used one of these gauges it all
become so simple.

....

>
> >
> > Never thought of any of that either, did you?
> >
>
> Quite clearly neither have you in your desire to avoid the KISS
principle.

....

Yes indeed. I quote

" Personally I put the right crank forward, elbow on the pedal to tension
the chain, left and right hands to hold the ruler on the chain and read
off the distance at 12"

Whereas I simple offer up the piece of wood with the protruding pegs and
either they go through the chain or they don't.


Curious


>
> Tony
>
>

[davek]

Tony Raven:
> Tough one that, Sunscreen - rain guaranteed; no suncree - bad sunburn
> guaranteed. Which do you go for?

Sunscreen + waterproof = weather gods confused

It's a bit like putting a slice of buttered toast on the back of a cat and
then dropping it off a tall building. It'll never land, I tell ye!

d.

[Simon Brooke]

in message >, Tony Raven
') wrote:

> Simon Brooke wrote:
>>
>> I've never broken one either, but if you are up in the hills miles
>> from anywhere and break one it could be a long walk out.
>
> I have two essential toolkits. One is the Topeak toolkit for fixing
> the bike, the other is the mobile phone for when it can't be fixed.

That's fine if the mobile phone network has coverage. Up in the hills it
mostly doesn't.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; IE 3 is dead, but Netscape 4 still shambles about the earth,
;; wreaking a horrific vengeance upon the living
;; anonymous

[Helen Deborah Vecht]

"Tony Raven" >typed


> Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:
> >
> > Charms for the long-distance cyclist
> >
> > Sunscreen... Rain guaranteed

> Tough one that, Sunscreen - rain guaranteed; no suncree - bad sunburn
> guaranteed. Which do you go for?

> Tony


Both, use neither, then forget how much UV gets through clouds, OUCH!

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

[Danny Colyer]

injuryprone wrote:
> Policy? You just set it for me. I've only been cycling "seriously" for a
> about 18 months!

This thread has been making me think about my first century (well,
actually 120 miles off-road).

I was 20 years old and had been cycling as my primary mode of transport
for 15 months. I carried no tools and wouldn't have known how to use
them anyway.

About 50 miles into the ride (I think), the puncture fairy acknowledged
my existence for the first time ever. I didn't recognise the feel of a
puncture. The saddle became distinctly uncomfortable (I walked much of
the next 70 miles). I didn't actually realise I had a puncture until
the following day. Even if I had, I wouldn't have been equipped to fix
it, nor would I have known how.

10 years on, I regard the idea of going out without a decent toolkit,
spare tubes etc as bloody stupid. But I wonder just how many of us used
to go out similarly unequipped when we were relative novices, and were
just lucky. I think people have been unnecessarily hard on injuryprone.

And, as he's pointed out, if an organised ride is advertised as having
cycle mechanics in attendance, it would seem reasonable to expect that
those cycle mechanics would be able to fix such simple problems and to
do so within a reasonable time.

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
<URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

[MartinM]

"Tony Raven" > wrote in message >...
> injuryprone wrote:
> >
> > If only we were all as perfect. I don't recall blaming anyone for my chain
> > breaking. Just pointing out that the support structure that was promised
> > didn't materialise. Halfords did not turn up. If I had been out on my normal
> > 50k ride and my chain snapped I would not have posted a message to complain
> > about Halfords, I'd ring my wife or walk home. You have missed my original
> > point, completely.
> >
>
> I'm surprised that none of the marshalls or passing cyclists were able to
> help. When I've been on similar events I've stopped to help if I see a
> cyclist with problems. With all those people going past there must have been
> on with a chain tool and knowledge. It should be 5 mins max to effect a
> running repair of that sort of failure although if there are several links out
> you might have ended up with restrictive gears. Halfords may have been
> deficient but so where the marshalls and other riders from what you have said.
>

I was in Normandy for the D day 60 celebrations and this poor French
chap asked me for help; the bikes out that weekend put even some of
the L2B offerings in the shade in terms of unpreparedness; his
freewheel ratchet had seized so as soon as he stopped pedalling it
mangled the chain round the back wheel; I could only advise "pedaller
toujours" but is there another solution?

[Dave Larrington]

Simon Brooke wrote:

> That's fine if the mobile phone network has coverage. Up in the hills
> it mostly doesn't.

A fine case for taking a pigeon on off-road excursions...

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[Mark South]

"Dave Larrington" > wrote in message
...
> Simon Brooke wrote:
>
> > That's fine if the mobile phone network has coverage. Up in the hills
> > it mostly doesn't.
>
> A fine case for taking a pigeon on off-road excursions...

If you are stranded somewhere and get really hungry, it's worth knowing that
Powerbars don't require so much preparation time as pigeons, and you don't have
to carry a rolling pin to do the pastry.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

[davek]

Danny Colyer:
> I was 20 years old and had been cycling as my primary mode of transport
> for 15 months. I carried no tools and wouldn't have known how to use
> them anyway.

When I was a teenager the very idea that a bike needed maintenance
completely passed me by (much like the idea that my bedroom needed tidying
up completely passed me by). Never so much as a drop of oil went near my
bike, even though I rode it 6 miles to school and back every day in all
weathers, and considerably longer distances at weekends and holidays. Rarely
visited the LBS except to buy the odd small part. Never changed the chain or
freewheel. Never even replaced the tyres, as far as I recall. I might have
changed the brake blocks once or twice, but only if they were so worn that
the metal casing was scraping on the wheel rim. I managed to get through a
cycling trip in the Alps aged 17 armed with nothing more than an adjustable
spanner and a puncture repair kit. I did get a puncture during that trip but
that was it. Looking back on it now, I'm amazed I got through that trip
alive considering the likely condition of my bike and the speeds we came
down those mountains...

The only serious mishap I ever had was the time some friends and I were
having an impromptu race and approaching a sharp corner at speed my brake
cable snapped. I have a feeling I probably just bought a new cable and
fitted it myself, but that would be the extent of my mechanical tinkerings.

> I didn't actually realise I had a puncture until
> the following day. Even if I had, I wouldn't have been equipped to fix
> it, nor would I have known how.

Hmm. Well, even back then fixing a puncture was a five-minute job for me.

> 10 years on, I regard the idea of going out without a decent toolkit,
> spare tubes etc as bloody stupid. But I wonder just how many of us used
> to go out similarly unequipped when we were relative novices, and were
> just lucky.

The fact that more people don't have mechanical problems on a ride like the
L2B is testament to the relative sturdiness of the humble bicycle, plus a
good deal of luck. Those two factors saw me through my teenage years all
right, but now I am older and wiser my mind boggles to think just how lucky
I was.

> I think people have been unnecessarily hard on injuryprone.

Yes and no. I sympathise entirely with his plight, but it sounds like the
simple expediency of carrying a multi-tool equipped with chain breaker could
have saved him a lot of standing around in the rain.

> And, as he's pointed out, if an organised ride is advertised as having
> cycle mechanics in attendance, it would seem reasonable to expect that
> those cycle mechanics would be able to fix such simple problems and to
> do so within a reasonable time.

Perhaps, but you have to approach these events with a realistic level of
expectation - consider how many mechanics Halfords would have needed to
provide to adequately cater for that many cyclists, especially considering
how many of them are not regular cyclists and probably have the same
attitude to bike maintenance that I had when I was 16. Hundreds, probably. I
doubt if Halfords have that many mechanics across their entire network of
shops.

And of the mechanics that were available (clearly not hundreds), consider
how many of them would have been held up from attending cases where their
services were genuinely required through having to fix punctures for the
hapless and hopeless.

For all that, I do completely agree that, from the sound of it, the level of
service provided by Halfords was below an acceptable standard by a
considerable margin and it would be disgraceful if they were given the
contract again without seriously bucking up their ideas. "injuryprone" has
already said he's writing a letter to the BHF and that's exactly the right
course of action to take. I only hope it bears fruit.

d.

[Ambrose Nankivell]

In ,
davek > typed:
> Perhaps, but you have to approach these events with a realistic level
> of expectation - consider how many mechanics Halfords would have
> needed to provide to adequately cater for that many cyclists,

Surely about one every three or four miles, which is to say 20 or 30, plus
another 10 or 15 roving ones. I don't know if 50 people's that much to
supply, although it is a fair old amount. Hopefully should get a fair bit of
repeat business, too.

A

[dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers]

>
>If you are stranded somewhere and get really hungry, it's worth knowing that
>Powerbars don't require so much preparation time as pigeons, and you don't
>have
>to carry a rolling pin to do the pastry.

Wimp. Real Off-Road Men [TM] eat their pigeon raw. None of this pastry
nonsense. Hugh Fiercely-Eatitall is their hero.

Cheers, helen s ;-)

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
**$om $

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

[Mark South]

"dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" > wrote in
message ...
> >
> >If you are stranded somewhere and get really hungry, it's worth knowing that
> >Powerbars don't require so much preparation time as pigeons, and you don't
> >have
> >to carry a rolling pin to do the pastry.
>
> Wimp. Real Off-Road Men [TM] eat their pigeon raw. None of this pastry
> nonsense. Hugh Fiercely-Eatitall is their hero.

Even so, Powerbars don't have feathers to tickle one's nose.

And as for eating a pigeon while on the bike, well, just think, how aero is
that, with those high-drag wings waving about and feathers lifting into the
airstream? And what about the colour - most pigeons in Britain are grey?!
Think of the clash with your bike and your strip? What would Fabrizio
Mazzoleni say???
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

PS Actually, there is one colour that pigeon would go with well in the cycling
world: Bianchi Celeste.

[dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers]

>Even so, Powerbars don't have feathers to tickle one's nose.
>

Food can be fun you know.

>And as for eating a pigeon while on the bike, well, just think, how aero is
>that, with those high-drag wings waving about and feathers lifting into the
>airstream? And what about the colour - most pigeons in Britain are grey?!

Lift, dear boy, lift!!! Those wings give extra speed!

>Think of the clash with your bike and your strip? What would Fabrizio
>Mazzoleni say???
>--
>Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
>
>PS Actually, there is one colour that pigeon would go with well in the
>cycling
>world: Bianchi Celeste.

Whaddya think I have two Bianchis both in Celeste for???

Hugh Fiercely-Eatitall is my hero too ;-)

Cheers, helen s



--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
**$om $

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

[Tony Raven]

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:
>
> Wimp. Real Off-Road Men [TM] eat their pigeon raw. None of this pastry
> nonsense. Hugh Fiercely-Eatitall is their hero.
>

Together with his companions Hughie and Rolf who always call a few hours after
he's eaten the raw pigeon.

Tony

[Dave Larrington]

Mark South wrote:

> Even so, Powerbars don't have feathers to tickle one's nose.

Plus some pigeons are psychotic, as my chum Hugh relates:

"My friend went to Portsmouth Uni a couple of years back. He said the
strangest thing he ever has seen occurred on the beach.

He was walking along the tide linelate one night with his girlfriend and
another chum when they stumbled upon a pigeon. It was dead, but strangely it
neck was elongated and torn open. They thought that was odd but walked on.
Then, they found another pigeon - with exactly the same thing going on with
its neck. They continued. Another pigeon, dead and broken. Another, another.
They found about eight pigeons all dead in more or less in the same position
and with the same wounds AND THEN...they came to the pier. Underneath the
pier they found something that still sends a shiver down their adult spines
even if I mention it now. A pigeon. Now, you might think that's quite
acceptable considering the pattern described above but this pigeon was
different. It was alive, but just standing zombie-like looking down from
where they had walked on the beach - stock still and staring. They couldn't
make it move, even though they stamped near it and waved their arms."

The pigeon in question may be viewed at or near here: <URL:
http://legslarry.8bit.co.uk/Pikey/pigeon.jpg> Possibly.

> And as for eating a pigeon while on the bike, well, just think, how
> aero is that, with those high-drag wings waving about and feathers
> lifting into the airstream? And what about the colour - most pigeons
> in Britain are grey?! Think of the clash with your bike and your
> strip? What would Fabrizio Mazzoleni say???

Nothing coherent or apposite. No change there then...

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[davek]

Ambrose Nankivell:
> I don't know if 50 people's that much to
> supply, although it is a fair old amount.

Two problems:
1. That's [probably] every branch of Halfords in the south-east giving up
its mechanics for the day (and getting them down to London/Brighton and back
home again afterwards).
2. Given that you've got a total of 27,000*55 = nearly 1.5 million cycling
miles being covered on the day, is 50 mechanics really going to be adequate?
Maybe it is, but they're going to be kept pretty busy.

d.

[davek]

Mark South:
> Even so, Powerbars don't have feathers to tickle one's nose.

And pigeons aren't available in banana flavour.

d.

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

davek wrote:
> Ambrose Nankivell:
>> I don't know if 50 people's that much to
>> supply, although it is a fair old amount.
>
> Two problems:
> 1. That's [probably] every branch of Halfords in the south-east
> giving up its mechanics for the day (and getting them down to
> London/Brighton and back home again afterwards).
> 2. Given that you've got a total of 27,000*55 = nearly 1.5 million
> cycling miles being covered on the day, is 50 mechanics really going
> to be adequate? Maybe it is, but they're going to be kept pretty busy.

So what you're saying is that Halfwits didn't think it through beforehand?

--
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

[dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers]

>And pigeons aren't available in banana flavour.
>
>d.

Depends if they've been eating them beforehand.

Cheers, helen s


--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
**$om $

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

[Tumbleweed]

"Ambrose Nankivell" > wrote in message
...
> In ,
> davek > typed:
> > Perhaps, but you have to approach these events with a realistic level
> > of expectation - consider how many mechanics Halfords would have
> > needed to provide to adequately cater for that many cyclists,
>
> Surely about one every three or four miles, which is to say 20 or 30, plus
> another 10 or 15 roving ones. I don't know if 50 people's that much to
> supply, although it is a fair old amount. Hopefully should get a fair bit
of
> repeat business, too.
>
> A
>

Compared to when I did it nearly 20 years ago there were far fewer mechanics
on view.

--
Tumbleweed

Remove my socks for email address

[Aloysius]

"injuryprone" > wrote in message >...

>
> If only we were all as perfect. I don't recall blaming anyone for my chain
> breaking. Just pointing out that the support structure that was promised
> didn't materialise. Halfords did not turn up.

You expected prompt support when there were thousands of others who
might also need the same support. You must have expected an awful lot
of Halfords staff to be on duty.

> If I had been out on my normal
> 50k ride and my chain snapped I would not have posted a message to complain
> about Halfords, I'd ring my wife or walk home. You have missed my original
> point, completely.
>
> As it happens, I now have an sram chain on my bike (thanks to some
> constructive advice received in this forum) , spare links, a couple of spare
> powerlinks, a bit of bent spoke and a chain tool, no doubt you will commend
> this.

Indeed.

>
> Perhaps you could be more constructive and describe what's in your little
> bag, rather than making false assumptions and patronising someone you know
> nothing about?

From memory, multi-tool, chain tool, adjustable spanner, bone-type
spanner, puncture kit, various tubes, rag, polythene gloves (available
from petrol stations), spare rear brake cable, a few M5 bolts and tie
wraps. The only things I'd add would be something to get the
sprockets off, an emergency spoke and a spoke key.

For tours, I take a few other bits like oil & a toothbrush.

[dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers]

>You expected prompt support when there were thousands of others who
>might also need the same support. You must have expected an awful lot
>of Halfords staff to be on duty.

If he was told H*f*rds were to be on duty and then they weren't, I think he has
every right to feel let-down. It's not a question of *prompt* support, it's a
question of *no support* when it was promised there would be support. If that's
the actual case, then I'd feel pretty p*ssed off if the same had happened to
me.

Cheers, helen s





--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
**$om $

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

[Dave Kahn]

(MartinM) wrote in message >...

> I was in Normandy for the D day 60 celebrations and this poor French
> chap asked me for help; the bikes out that weekend put even some of
> the L2B offerings in the shade in terms of unpreparedness; his
> freewheel ratchet had seized so as soon as he stopped pedalling it
> mangled the chain round the back wheel; I could only advise "pedaller
> toujours" but is there another solution?

Shortening the chain to select a single sprocket and bypass the
derailleur should work as a get-you-home. Getting an acceptable
chain-line and tension might be tricky though.

--
Dave...

[MartinM]

(Dave Kahn) wrote in message >...
> (MartinM) wrote in message >...
>
> > I was in Normandy for the D day 60 celebrations and this poor French
> > chap asked me for help; the bikes out that weekend put even some of
> > the L2B offerings in the shade in terms of unpreparedness; his
> > freewheel ratchet had seized so as soon as he stopped pedalling it
> > mangled the chain round the back wheel; I could only advise "pedaller
> > toujours" but is there another solution?
>
> Shortening the chain to select a single sprocket and bypass the
> derailleur should work as a get-you-home. Getting an acceptable
> chain-line and tension might be tricky though.

Thanks, yes tried that in Italy last year when my hanger broke,
disaster, either too slack or so tight the front chainset collapsed;
fortunately I found God's LBS ;-)

[james]

(Dave Kahn) wrote in message >...
> (MartinM) wrote in message >...
>
> > I was in Normandy for the D day 60 celebrations and this poor French
> > chap asked me for help; the bikes out that weekend put even some of
> > the L2B offerings in the shade in terms of unpreparedness; his
> > freewheel ratchet had seized so as soon as he stopped pedalling it
> > mangled the chain round the back wheel; I could only advise "pedaller
> > toujours" but is there another solution?
>
> Shortening the chain to select a single sprocket and bypass the
> derailleur should work as a get-you-home. Getting an acceptable
> chain-line and tension might be tricky though.

but it was the freewheel that was jammed so it is a chice between
multispeed fixed or single speed fixed. Prolly not much in it given
the assumed condition of the rest of the bike and rider

best wishes
james

[Dave Kahn]

On 24 Jun 2004 13:14:18 -0700, (james) wrote:

>but it was the freewheel that was jammed so it is a chice between
>multispeed fixed or single speed fixed. Prolly not much in it given
>the assumed condition of the rest of the bike and rider

A multi-speed fixed does not really work because of the tension in the
lower part of the chain. As soon as the rider relaxes the pressure on
the pedals the derailleur gets pulled up into the block.

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

[marc]

In article >,
says...
> I am a CYCLIST not an engineer.
> If you think this is a bad attitude then we'll never agree.
>
>
We will never agree. Your not a cyclist, your a person that rides a bike.

[Gawnsoft]

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 10:34:29 +0100, marc <marccdimspamremovedimspamto
> wrote (more or less):

>In article >,
>says...
>> I am a CYCLIST not an engineer.
>> If you think this is a bad attitude then we'll never agree.
>>
>>
>We will never agree. Your not a cyclist, your a person that rides a bike.

On that we'll need to agree to disagree.


--
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

[MartinM]

(james) wrote in message >...
> (Dave Kahn) wrote in message >...
> > (MartinM) wrote in message >...
> >
> > > I was in Normandy for the D day 60 celebrations and this poor French
> > > chap asked me for help; the bikes out that weekend put even some of
> > > the L2B offerings in the shade in terms of unpreparedness; his
> > > freewheel ratchet had seized so as soon as he stopped pedalling it
> > > mangled the chain round the back wheel; I could only advise "pedaller
> > > toujours" but is there another solution?
> >
> > Shortening the chain to select a single sprocket and bypass the
> > derailleur should work as a get-you-home. Getting an acceptable
> > chain-line and tension might be tricky though.
>
> but it was the freewheel that was jammed so it is a chice between
> multispeed fixed or single speed fixed. Prolly not much in it given
> the assumed condition of the rest of the bike and rider
>
> best wishes
> james

When I was 14 I was riding along, all of 4 miles from home (a long way
at 14) and my chain broke; a very helpful passing motorist happened to
have a spare link which he put on, unfortunately after he drove off I
discovered it was on of the old circlip type ones and got jammed in
the rear mech; ever tried to ride 4 miles having to pedal two
revolutions then reverse pedal etc etc? almost as bad as 12 miles
across London with just a RH crank ;-)

[Dave Kahn]

marc <marccdimspamremovedimspamto > wrote in message >...
> In article >,
> says...
> > I am a CYCLIST not an engineer.
> > If you think this is a bad attitude then we'll never agree.

> We will never agree. Your not a cyclist, your a person that rides a bike.

A little harsh applied someone who clocks 100 miles a week, or would
you assert that all of us are not cyclists?

--
Dave...

[Tumbleweed]

"Dave Kahn" > wrote in message
om...
> marc <marccdimspamremovedimspamto > wrote in
message >...
> > In article >,
> > says...
> > > I am a CYCLIST not an engineer.
> > > If you think this is a bad attitude then we'll never agree.
>
> > We will never agree. Your not a cyclist, your a person that rides a
bike.
>
> A little harsh applied someone who clocks 100 miles a week, or would
> you assert that all of us are not cyclists?
>
> --
> Dave...

What about someone who clocks 100 miles a week by bike but at different
times also walks, cycles, motorbikes and drives a car? Its ludicrous
classifying someone by the mode of transport they sometimes use. Presumably
at the moment reading this you are sitting down, does that make you a
lounger?
IMHO the only people who deserve the classification 'cyclist' would be
professional cyclists, for example David Millar......ooops.


--
Tumbleweed

Remove my socks for email address

[Dave Kahn]

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 17:31:40 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
> wrote:

>"Dave Kahn" > wrote in message

>> A little harsh applied someone who clocks 100 miles a week, or would
>> you assert that all of us are not cyclists?
>>
>> --
>> Dave...
>
>What about someone who clocks 100 miles a week by bike but at different
>times also walks, cycles, motorbikes and drives a car? Its ludicrous
>classifying someone by the mode of transport they sometimes use. Presumably
>at the moment reading this you are sitting down, does that make you a
>lounger?

I'm a person who happens to be sitting. I'm still a cyclist whether I
happen to be cycling at the moment or not, just as I'm a glider pilot
even when I'm not actually flying. And I'm still a cyclist when I'm
driving or flying or running because my involvement with cycling, not
just my mode of transport, helps to define who I am.

>IMHO the only people who deserve the classification 'cyclist' would be
>professional cyclists, for example David Millar......ooops.

So someone like Guy, who's more or less obsessed with cycling and
campaigns tirelessly for cycling causes doesn't merit the title
"cyclist"?

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

[Tumbleweed]

"Dave Kahn" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 17:31:40 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
> > wrote:
>
> >"Dave Kahn" > wrote in message
>
> >> A little harsh applied someone who clocks 100 miles a week, or would
> >> you assert that all of us are not cyclists?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Dave...
> >
> >What about someone who clocks 100 miles a week by bike but at different
> >times also walks, cycles, motorbikes and drives a car? Its ludicrous
> >classifying someone by the mode of transport they sometimes use.
Presumably
> >at the moment reading this you are sitting down, does that make you a
> >lounger?
>
> I'm a person who happens to be sitting. I'm still a cyclist whether I
> happen to be cycling at the moment or not, just as I'm a glider pilot
> even when I'm not actually flying. And I'm still a cyclist when I'm
> driving or flying or running because my involvement with cycling, not
> just my mode of transport, helps to define who I am.
>
> >IMHO the only people who deserve the classification 'cyclist' would be
> >professional cyclists, for example David Millar......ooops.
>
> So someone like Guy, who's more or less obsessed with cycling and
> campaigns tirelessly for cycling causes doesn't merit the title
> "cyclist"?
>

Not necessarily, suppose someone had never cycled but campaigned tirelessly
for cycling causes,
that wouldn't make them a cyclist would it? Any more than my discussions of
exactly why Engerlund ****ed up Euro 2004 makes me a footballer.

However, the word 'cyclist' has many meanings and its use is obviously not
agreed on by all, other than in the limited sense of someone who happens to
be on a cycle at the time ("the cyclist's life was saved by his helmet when
he impacted head-on with the 40 ton juggernaut at 70 mph")
To the OP (not sure if that was you) a cyclist is (apparently) someone who
cycles 100 miles a week (????irrespective of whatever else they do, maybe
they drive a truck 5 days a week?). To others (or maybe just me) its best is
used in a professional/occupational sense, to others (you?) its a measure of
your commitment to the ?hobby? of cycling.

As with most usenet discussions, I suggest it all comes down to definitions
and the fact we arent using the same ones.

Tumbleweed
--
email replies not necessary but to contact use;

tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

[Dave Kahn]

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 14:53:16 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
> wrote:

>"Dave Kahn" > wrote in message
...

>> So someone like Guy, who's more or less obsessed with cycling and
>> campaigns tirelessly for cycling causes doesn't merit the title
>> "cyclist"?
>>
>
>Not necessarily, suppose someone had never cycled but campaigned tirelessly
>for cycling causes,
>that wouldn't make them a cyclist would it?

No. Nor did I suggest for a moment that it would, as you are perfectly
well aware.

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

[Gawnsoft]

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 17:31:40 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
> wrote (more or less):

>
>"Dave Kahn" > wrote in message
om...
>> marc <marccdimspamremovedimspamto > wrote in
>message >...
>> > In article >,
>> > says...
>> > > I am a CYCLIST not an engineer.
>> > > If you think this is a bad attitude then we'll never agree.
>>
>> > We will never agree. Your not a cyclist, your a person that rides a
>bike.
>>
>> A little harsh applied someone who clocks 100 miles a week, or would
>> you assert that all of us are not cyclists?
>>
>> --
>> Dave...
>
>What about someone who clocks 100 miles a week by bike but at different
>times also walks, cycles, motorbikes and drives a car? Its ludicrous
>classifying someone by the mode of transport they sometimes use. Presumably
>at the moment reading this you are sitting down, does that make you a
>lounger?
>IMHO the only people who deserve the classification 'cyclist' would be
>professional cyclists, for example David Millar......ooops.

If 'cyclist' meant only 'professional cyclist', we wouldn't have need
of the phrase 'professional cyclist', as it would be a tautology.

--
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

[Dave Kahn]

Gawnsoft > wrote in message >...

> If 'cyclist' meant only 'professional cyclist', we wouldn't have need
> of the phrase 'professional cyclist', as it would be a tautology.

Besides, classifying someone by their profession is arguably just as
flawed as classifying them by their mode of transport.

--
Dave...