How should Street Freestyle competition work?

[johnfoss]

This thread is about the birth of a Street Freestyle competition event.
There are three pictures here:

1. Should we call it Street Freestyle, or something else?

2. The immediate need is to get something concocted real quick, so
riders can get familiar with the idea in time for competition at MUni
Weekend on Sept. 19. We'll need to develop a set of rules, no matter how
basic, while I work to get a detailed idea of what the performing space
will include, and how big the paved part will be.

3. The longer-term goal is to replace the Open-X event at USA and IUF
competitions with something that's more interesting and successful. The
Open-X event finally worked pretty well this last time, at Unicon XII,
but it still seems to be missing a non-flat riding surface, and it
should be open to Trials unicycles because it's aimed at a lot of people
who ride them. This means it needs to be outside (or in a gym nobody
really cares about).

So while we may put something simple together for MUni Weekend, the goal
is to figure out a full-fledged event for future large unicycle
competitions. And small.

So what do you think?

BTW, if you want to know what Open-X is, it's one of the artistic events
in those two rulebooks linked below. If you read about Open-X, best to
read about Freestyle as well, to get some background. That's the event
it was derived from.


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"jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com

"Read the rules!"
'IUF Rulebook' (http://www.unicycling.org/iuf/rulebook/)
'USA Rulebook' (http://www.unicycling.org/usa/competition/)
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[uniextreme]

I think those rules will work fine although i think that you shouldnt be
able to use props like juggling and dancing. Also i would say since it
is a street freestyle comp the rider should be able to make it as flowy
as they can. For example i dont think you should be able to stop, go
into a seat out hop , do a few prehops then hop up onto obstacles and
then go do a whole trials line because thats trials not street i think
it should remain "flowy." Also this is i completely up to you but if it
were up to me I would say x-nay on the knee shins ay. Do to them
restrictring leg movement but thats all you.
Dont worry I would probably have may more thoughts but this is the first
stuff that came to me.

Brian Lundgren


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[uniextreme]

I think those rules will work fine although i think that you shouldnt be
able to use props like juggling and dancing. Also i would say since it
is a street freestyle comp the rider should be able to make it as flowy
as they can. For example i dont think you should be able to stop, go
into a seat out hop , do a few prehops then hop up onto obstacles and
then go do a whole trials line because thats trials not street i think
it should remain "flowy." Also this is i completely up to you but if it
were up to me I would say x-nay on the knee shins ay. Do to them
restrictring leg movement but thats all you.
Dont worry I would probably have may more thoughts but this is the first
stuff that came to me.

Brian Lundgren


--
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http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albuw09 ( A few street clips were just
added)

Scars are tatoos with better stories

"Unicycling looks hard then when you try to ride it its harder than it
looks" canadian after trying to ride my uni.
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[uniextreme]

I think those rules will work fine although i think that you shouldnt be
able to use props like juggling and dancing. Also i would say since it
is a street freestyle comp the rider should be able to make it as flowy
as they can. For example i dont think you should be able to stop, go
into a seat out hop , do a few prehops then hop up onto obstacles and
then go do a whole trials line because thats trials not street i think
it should remain "flowy." Also this is i completely up to you but if it
were up to me I would say x-nay on the knee shins ay. Do to them
restrictring leg movement but thats all you.
Dont worry I would probably have may more thoughts but this is the first
stuff that came to me.

Brian Lundgren


--
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http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albuw09 ( A few street clips were just
added)

Scars are tatoos with better stories

"Unicycling looks hard then when you try to ride it its harder than it
looks" canadian after trying to ride my uni.
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[johnfoss]

uniextreme wrote:
> *i think that you shouldnt be able to use props like juggling and
> dancing.*
For the most part we don't tell people what they *can't* do (goes with
the definition of Freestyle). But I don't think we need a section in the
judging criteria to cover props and other skills as I don't see them
likely. Instead, some of this would go toward use of the obstacles
and/or what you do on them.
> *For example i dont think you should be able to stop, go into a seat
> out hop , do a few prehops then hop up onto obstacles and then go do a
> whole trials line because thats trials not street i think it should
> remain "flowy."*
Also good suggestion. Again the idea would be to be flowy or smooth,
rather than jerky/stoppy (if we write that in), but not that you
can't.
> *x-nay on the knee shins ay. Do to them restrictring leg movement but
> thats all you.*
Deep gashes and broken bones also restrict leg movement. Hmm. Which
would be worse? But yes, we will have to decide if there will be any
safety gear requirements. I think yes, because it's not judged on what
you wear, but this would probably be the same requirements as MUni
racing: knees, hands/wrists, head. What do others think? Not to start a
big discussion about this, but I also like the idea of presenting a
responsible image for our sport by depicting riders who look like they
think ahead.

Thanks for the great feedback!


--
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John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com

"Read the rules!"
'IUF Rulebook' (http://www.unicycling.org/iuf/rulebook/)
'USA Rulebook' (http://www.unicycling.org/usa/competition/)
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[johnfoss]

uniextreme wrote:
> *i think that you shouldnt be able to use props like juggling and
> dancing.*
For the most part we don't tell people what they *can't* do (goes with
the definition of Freestyle). But I don't think we need a section in the
judging criteria to cover props and other skills as I don't see them
likely. Instead, some of this would go toward use of the obstacles
and/or what you do on them.
> *For example i dont think you should be able to stop, go into a seat
> out hop , do a few prehops then hop up onto obstacles and then go do a
> whole trials line because thats trials not street i think it should
> remain "flowy."*
Also good suggestion. Again the idea would be to be flowy or smooth,
rather than jerky/stoppy (if we write that in), but not that you
can't.
> *x-nay on the knee shins ay. Do to them restrictring leg movement but
> thats all you.*
Deep gashes and broken bones also restrict leg movement. Hmm. Which
would be worse? But yes, we will have to decide if there will be any
safety gear requirements. I think yes, because it's not judged on what
you wear, but this would probably be the same requirements as MUni
racing: knees, hands/wrists, head. What do others think? Not to start a
big discussion about this, but I also like the idea of presenting a
responsible image for our sport by depicting riders who look like they
think ahead.

Thanks for the great feedback!


--
johnfoss - Walkin' on the edge

John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com

"Read the rules!"
'IUF Rulebook' (http://www.unicycling.org/iuf/rulebook/)
'USA Rulebook' (http://www.unicycling.org/usa/competition/)
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[johnfoss]

uniextreme wrote:
> *i think that you shouldnt be able to use props like juggling and
> dancing.*
For the most part we don't tell people what they *can't* do (goes with
the definition of Freestyle). But I don't think we need a section in the
judging criteria to cover props and other skills as I don't see them
likely. Instead, some of this would go toward use of the obstacles
and/or what you do on them.
> *For example i dont think you should be able to stop, go into a seat
> out hop , do a few prehops then hop up onto obstacles and then go do a
> whole trials line because thats trials not street i think it should
> remain "flowy."*
Also good suggestion. Again the idea would be to be flowy or smooth,
rather than jerky/stoppy (if we write that in), but not that you
can't.
> *x-nay on the knee shins ay. Do to them restrictring leg movement but
> thats all you.*
Deep gashes and broken bones also restrict leg movement. Hmm. Which
would be worse? But yes, we will have to decide if there will be any
safety gear requirements. I think yes, because it's not judged on what
you wear, but this would probably be the same requirements as MUni
racing: knees, hands/wrists, head. What do others think? Not to start a
big discussion about this, but I also like the idea of presenting a
responsible image for our sport by depicting riders who look like they
think ahead.

Thanks for the great feedback!


--
johnfoss - Walkin' on the edge

John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com

"Read the rules!"
'IUF Rulebook' (http://www.unicycling.org/iuf/rulebook/)
'USA Rulebook' (http://www.unicycling.org/usa/competition/)
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[TonyMelton]

To me street riding is more about *how* you do your tricks/skills. Its
about style. In trials it does not matter if you hop 3 times or 50 times
to clean a section, whereas fluffing around doing a zillion prehops is
not good street style. I think it should definitely include props such
as grinding rails, ramps, stair-sets, planter-boxes etc and the judging
should reward innovative use of these props.

I would think the easiest place to hold a street comp (without having to
do a lot of carpentry) would be at a skate park.


My 2c

+0]\|>-


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[TonyMelton]

To me street riding is more about *how* you do your tricks/skills. Its
about style. In trials it does not matter if you hop 3 times or 50 times
to clean a section, whereas fluffing around doing a zillion prehops is
not good street style. I think it should definitely include props such
as grinding rails, ramps, stair-sets, planter-boxes etc and the judging
should reward innovative use of these props.

I would think the easiest place to hold a street comp (without having to
do a lot of carpentry) would be at a skate park.


My 2c

+0]\|>-


--
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[TonyMelton]

To me street riding is more about *how* you do your tricks/skills. Its
about style. In trials it does not matter if you hop 3 times or 50 times
to clean a section, whereas fluffing around doing a zillion prehops is
not good street style. I think it should definitely include props such
as grinding rails, ramps, stair-sets, planter-boxes etc and the judging
should reward innovative use of these props.

I would think the easiest place to hold a street comp (without having to
do a lot of carpentry) would be at a skate park.


My 2c

+0]\|>-


--
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Three new albums added to 'my photo gallery'
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[Robbie]

Me and my friend were discussing this earlier today... not sure if it's
a coincidence or if he's already seen this thread. But I don't really
think Street Freestyle is a very good name for it... Street or Street
Something or Something Street. Use the word street, but don't include
other styles in the name.

I think it should work sort of the way they hold local skate
competitions around here. Basically just have an area, you could use
slope to your advantage, small walls nearby would reduce the need for
extra obstacles. Basically you have a set up of lots of things to do and
you just give them like 2 or 3 minutes to do their stuff. Everyone gets
2 or 3 goes, then you narrow it down to a smaller amount and have a
finals.

Something around that, but I can imagine it working very well, I can
imagine alot of footplant developement if this became a competition.
Anyway, boxes to grind, rails to grind, sets of stairs, a few small
walls, one larger wall, and a few rails to gap across.


--
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[Robbie]

Me and my friend were discussing this earlier today... not sure if it's
a coincidence or if he's already seen this thread. But I don't really
think Street Freestyle is a very good name for it... Street or Street
Something or Something Street. Use the word street, but don't include
other styles in the name.

I think it should work sort of the way they hold local skate
competitions around here. Basically just have an area, you could use
slope to your advantage, small walls nearby would reduce the need for
extra obstacles. Basically you have a set up of lots of things to do and
you just give them like 2 or 3 minutes to do their stuff. Everyone gets
2 or 3 goes, then you narrow it down to a smaller amount and have a
finals.

Something around that, but I can imagine it working very well, I can
imagine alot of footplant developement if this became a competition.
Anyway, boxes to grind, rails to grind, sets of stairs, a few small
walls, one larger wall, and a few rails to gap across.


--
Robbie - Street Unicyclist

[image: http://gallery.unicyclist.com/albums/greeny23-1/dr_z.gif]
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[Robbie]

Me and my friend were discussing this earlier today... not sure if it's
a coincidence or if he's already seen this thread. But I don't really
think Street Freestyle is a very good name for it... Street or Street
Something or Something Street. Use the word street, but don't include
other styles in the name.

I think it should work sort of the way they hold local skate
competitions around here. Basically just have an area, you could use
slope to your advantage, small walls nearby would reduce the need for
extra obstacles. Basically you have a set up of lots of things to do and
you just give them like 2 or 3 minutes to do their stuff. Everyone gets
2 or 3 goes, then you narrow it down to a smaller amount and have a
finals.

Something around that, but I can imagine it working very well, I can
imagine alot of footplant developement if this became a competition.
Anyway, boxes to grind, rails to grind, sets of stairs, a few small
walls, one larger wall, and a few rails to gap across.


--
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[hecklar]

I think it should just be called 'Street Unicycling'.

If you want to know what kind of obstacles to include, just watch videos
like U2 and write down all of the obstacles that the street guys (Dan
H., Dan D., etc.) use. Then find a place that has most of these
concrete (static) obstacles and add the others that can be moved in
(picnic tables, fun boxes, garbage cans, etc.). A small skatepark does
seem ideal though.

I think the rules for the comp should emulate a skate comp too, only
there may need to be extra time, since unicycling is a lot slower than
skateboarding. It also depends on how exhausted the contestants get
though.

For the armour issue, i think that you, once again, should follow the
lead of skate comps: just enforce riders to wear helmets for the good
pres. Anything else should be up to them, as it is in skate comps. I'm
sure that most riders will wear what they need to wear to prevent injury
anyway.

Finally, please record this competition (make a DVD?). I won't be going
to the comp, but i and most of the other uniers would still love to see
it.


--
hecklar
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[hecklar]

I think it should just be called 'Street Unicycling'.

If you want to know what kind of obstacles to include, just watch videos
like U2 and write down all of the obstacles that the street guys (Dan
H., Dan D., etc.) use. Then find a place that has most of these
concrete (static) obstacles and add the others that can be moved in
(picnic tables, fun boxes, garbage cans, etc.). A small skatepark does
seem ideal though.

I think the rules for the comp should emulate a skate comp too, only
there may need to be extra time, since unicycling is a lot slower than
skateboarding. It also depends on how exhausted the contestants get
though.

For the armour issue, i think that you, once again, should follow the
lead of skate comps: just enforce riders to wear helmets for the good
pres. Anything else should be up to them, as it is in skate comps. I'm
sure that most riders will wear what they need to wear to prevent injury
anyway.

Finally, please record this competition (make a DVD?). I won't be going
to the comp, but i and most of the other uniers would still love to see
it.


--
hecklar
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[hecklar]

I think it should just be called 'Street Unicycling'.

If you want to know what kind of obstacles to include, just watch videos
like U2 and write down all of the obstacles that the street guys (Dan
H., Dan D., etc.) use. Then find a place that has most of these
concrete (static) obstacles and add the others that can be moved in
(picnic tables, fun boxes, garbage cans, etc.). A small skatepark does
seem ideal though.

I think the rules for the comp should emulate a skate comp too, only
there may need to be extra time, since unicycling is a lot slower than
skateboarding. It also depends on how exhausted the contestants get
though.

For the armour issue, i think that you, once again, should follow the
lead of skate comps: just enforce riders to wear helmets for the good
pres. Anything else should be up to them, as it is in skate comps. I'm
sure that most riders will wear what they need to wear to prevent injury
anyway.

Finally, please record this competition (make a DVD?). I won't be going
to the comp, but i and most of the other uniers would still love to see
it.


--
hecklar
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[SimonWells]

why not call it StreetStyle ?
since the enfices is on the style


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[SimonWells]

why not call it StreetStyle ?
since the enfices is on the style


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[SimonWells]

why not call it StreetStyle ?
since the enfices is on the style


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[tugboat]

hello. i havent replied yet in this thread, but i feel like i should
just because im a street rider. im extremely impressed that this type of
competition is seriously being considered. i think its important to have
a reason for street riders to get together with everyone else seeing as
some of us (including me) suck at trials and freestyle and muni haha.
but yeah, as for a name for it, i dont think that street freestyle is a
good name for it only because of the word "freestyle" in there. street
is its own style, it shouldnt be falsly associated with freestyle i dont
think. i mean freestyle is strictly a flat ground thing. street isnt. i
mean sure theres a lot of moves you could do flat ground and call it
street, but not everything. like hopping on the top of the tire i dont
consider street. so yeah, not street freestyle, but i think street is
what it should be call. thats what its called in every other sport
pretty much, so why not in unicycling as well? i know street unicycling
gets a lot of insporation from skateboarding, bmxing and inline skating,
so why not continue with the name of this type of competition.

as for the setup, thats tough. the problem is that the transitions at
most skateparks are too steep for unicycles, and the flat parts arent
long enough to get at least 2 rotations in (for example on the top of a
box that has a ramp going up to it on either side, the flat surface at
the top might be 1 and a half rotations which isnt always enough). that
isnt to say you can use a skatepark. its saying that you will have to
carefully look around to find a skate park that is ideal for unicycling.
you will alos have to bring in picnic tables and rails and everything
like that. and im sure it wouldnt be tough to make a pretty high and
long box and have a set of 7 or 8 stairs going down at the end with a
handrail on both sides. you will also have to have an infinite supply of
wax. because it will be needed.

oh, and i just came up with something. if you want it to be flowy, its
tough. mostly because its hard to do tricks without lining them up
first. so i think that for any obstacles (mostly stairs or downsloped
ledges and rails) that will be used a lot and you need a perfect lineup,
there should be markings on the ground as you ride up to them. these
will tell you how many revolutions away you are form the obstacle
(assuming you are on a 20 inch trials), and it allows you to try to line
up a pedal however you wish before you reach the obstacle. and perhaps
have different colours for each marking (example: green for 1 rev away,
yellow for 2, red for 3) or something like that. anyways, thats just a
thought and i think it would work.

as for judging or figuring out who wins, same as a skate comp. have like
5 or 6 judges, and kick out the highest and lowest scores and average
the others. and the time of each run should be probably 2 minutes. but
experiment with that somehow. factors taken into consideration should be
consistency, style, technical difficulty, and like how big you go...
odnt know how to put that.

for safety equipment, i think helmets should be manditory. no helmet, no
riding. i know it might seem contradictory for me to say that seeing as
i dont always wear mine, but i have begun to a lot more. my whole part
in spaced out will not have a helmet, but any other videos that ive
filmed for, my helmet has been on 95% of the time. i agree that we
should send a sensible message. as for anything else, i agree with
"hecklar". it should be the riders choice. i know for myself, i dont
wear anything besides a helmet. not because i feel that im safe, but
because i feel that they do restrict some movement that you need for
flopping aorund more than in trials. the only other people who flop
around like street riders are freestyle riders, and they certainly arent
wearing any. i bet they couldnt do some of the same stuff with leg
armour on, but im sure theyre allowed to (dont know the rules). as well,
i bet a lot of people will be using plastic pedals for grinding, and
they are a lot more shin friendly than metal ones.

another issue, i dont thikn there should be a restriction on the
unicycle being used. if they want to ride a 16", let them. if they want
to ride a coker with that crazy shifting hub, let them. i mean if having
a certain type of uni helps develop their style, then let it be. i think
however that it should be pedal driven (prohibiting bc wheels) but if
enough intrest arises, have a special category for bc wheels. but if you
restrict the type of unicycle, then it could potentially stop the
experimenting that street unicycling still needs since its still in its
beginning stages.

anyways, i think thats enough writing for now, i will write more if i
think of more. those are my thoughts john, and i think its awesome that
youre doing this. if i could be there to participate in it, i would.
unfortunately, funds are short these days, and my trials uni has been
broken completely (pretty much every part). you can write a response to
mine and disagree or agree with anything. im not attached to these ideas
lol. anyways, im off. good luck with this!

Kevin


--
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"You won't get hurt if you land it!"
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[tugboat]

hello. i havent replied yet in this thread, but i feel like i should
just because im a street rider. im extremely impressed that this type of
competition is seriously being considered. i think its important to have
a reason for street riders to get together with everyone else seeing as
some of us (including me) suck at trials and freestyle and muni haha.
but yeah, as for a name for it, i dont think that street freestyle is a
good name for it only because of the word "freestyle" in there. street
is its own style, it shouldnt be falsly associated with freestyle i dont
think. i mean freestyle is strictly a flat ground thing. street isnt. i
mean sure theres a lot of moves you could do flat ground and call it
street, but not everything. like hopping on the top of the tire i dont
consider street. so yeah, not street freestyle, but i think street is
what it should be call. thats what its called in every other sport
pretty much, so why not in unicycling as well? i know street unicycling
gets a lot of insporation from skateboarding, bmxing and inline skating,
so why not continue with the name of this type of competition.

as for the setup, thats tough. the problem is that the transitions at
most skateparks are too steep for unicycles, and the flat parts arent
long enough to get at least 2 rotations in (for example on the top of a
box that has a ramp going up to it on either side, the flat surface at
the top might be 1 and a half rotations which isnt always enough). that
isnt to say you can use a skatepark. its saying that you will have to
carefully look around to find a skate park that is ideal for unicycling.
you will alos have to bring in picnic tables and rails and everything
like that. and im sure it wouldnt be tough to make a pretty high and
long box and have a set of 7 or 8 stairs going down at the end with a
handrail on both sides. you will also have to have an infinite supply of
wax. because it will be needed.

oh, and i just came up with something. if you want it to be flowy, its
tough. mostly because its hard to do tricks without lining them up
first. so i think that for any obstacles (mostly stairs or downsloped
ledges and rails) that will be used a lot and you need a perfect lineup,
there should be markings on the ground as you ride up to them. these
will tell you how many revolutions away you are form the obstacle
(assuming you are on a 20 inch trials), and it allows you to try to line
up a pedal however you wish before you reach the obstacle. and perhaps
have different colours for each marking (example: green for 1 rev away,
yellow for 2, red for 3) or something like that. anyways, thats just a
thought and i think it would work.

as for judging or figuring out who wins, same as a skate comp. have like
5 or 6 judges, and kick out the highest and lowest scores and average
the others. and the time of each run should be probably 2 minutes. but
experiment with that somehow. factors taken into consideration should be
consistency, style, technical difficulty, and like how big you go...
odnt know how to put that.

for safety equipment, i think helmets should be manditory. no helmet, no
riding. i know it might seem contradictory for me to say that seeing as
i dont always wear mine, but i have begun to a lot more. my whole part
in spaced out will not have a helmet, but any other videos that ive
filmed for, my helmet has been on 95% of the time. i agree that we
should send a sensible message. as for anything else, i agree with
"hecklar". it should be the riders choice. i know for myself, i dont
wear anything besides a helmet. not because i feel that im safe, but
because i feel that they do restrict some movement that you need for
flopping aorund more than in trials. the only other people who flop
around like street riders are freestyle riders, and they certainly arent
wearing any. i bet they couldnt do some of the same stuff with leg
armour on, but im sure theyre allowed to (dont know the rules). as well,
i bet a lot of people will be using plastic pedals for grinding, and
they are a lot more shin friendly than metal ones.

another issue, i dont thikn there should be a restriction on the
unicycle being used. if they want to ride a 16", let them. if they want
to ride a coker with that crazy shifting hub, let them. i mean if having
a certain type of uni helps develop their style, then let it be. i think
however that it should be pedal driven (prohibiting bc wheels) but if
enough intrest arises, have a special category for bc wheels. but if you
restrict the type of unicycle, then it could potentially stop the
experimenting that street unicycling still needs since its still in its
beginning stages.

anyways, i think thats enough writing for now, i will write more if i
think of more. those are my thoughts john, and i think its awesome that
youre doing this. if i could be there to participate in it, i would.
unfortunately, funds are short these days, and my trials uni has been
broken completely (pretty much every part). you can write a response to
mine and disagree or agree with anything. im not attached to these ideas
lol. anyways, im off. good luck with this!

Kevin


--
tugboat - street unicyclist

"You won't get hurt if you land it!"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
tugboat's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/3298
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[tugboat]

hello. i havent replied yet in this thread, but i feel like i should
just because im a street rider. im extremely impressed that this type of
competition is seriously being considered. i think its important to have
a reason for street riders to get together with everyone else seeing as
some of us (including me) suck at trials and freestyle and muni haha.
but yeah, as for a name for it, i dont think that street freestyle is a
good name for it only because of the word "freestyle" in there. street
is its own style, it shouldnt be falsly associated with freestyle i dont
think. i mean freestyle is strictly a flat ground thing. street isnt. i
mean sure theres a lot of moves you could do flat ground and call it
street, but not everything. like hopping on the top of the tire i dont
consider street. so yeah, not street freestyle, but i think street is
what it should be call. thats what its called in every other sport
pretty much, so why not in unicycling as well? i know street unicycling
gets a lot of insporation from skateboarding, bmxing and inline skating,
so why not continue with the name of this type of competition.

as for the setup, thats tough. the problem is that the transitions at
most skateparks are too steep for unicycles, and the flat parts arent
long enough to get at least 2 rotations in (for example on the top of a
box that has a ramp going up to it on either side, the flat surface at
the top might be 1 and a half rotations which isnt always enough). that
isnt to say you can use a skatepark. its saying that you will have to
carefully look around to find a skate park that is ideal for unicycling.
you will alos have to bring in picnic tables and rails and everything
like that. and im sure it wouldnt be tough to make a pretty high and
long box and have a set of 7 or 8 stairs going down at the end with a
handrail on both sides. you will also have to have an infinite supply of
wax. because it will be needed.

oh, and i just came up with something. if you want it to be flowy, its
tough. mostly because its hard to do tricks without lining them up
first. so i think that for any obstacles (mostly stairs or downsloped
ledges and rails) that will be used a lot and you need a perfect lineup,
there should be markings on the ground as you ride up to them. these
will tell you how many revolutions away you are form the obstacle
(assuming you are on a 20 inch trials), and it allows you to try to line
up a pedal however you wish before you reach the obstacle. and perhaps
have different colours for each marking (example: green for 1 rev away,
yellow for 2, red for 3) or something like that. anyways, thats just a
thought and i think it would work.

as for judging or figuring out who wins, same as a skate comp. have like
5 or 6 judges, and kick out the highest and lowest scores and average
the others. and the time of each run should be probably 2 minutes. but
experiment with that somehow. factors taken into consideration should be
consistency, style, technical difficulty, and like how big you go...
odnt know how to put that.

for safety equipment, i think helmets should be manditory. no helmet, no
riding. i know it might seem contradictory for me to say that seeing as
i dont always wear mine, but i have begun to a lot more. my whole part
in spaced out will not have a helmet, but any other videos that ive
filmed for, my helmet has been on 95% of the time. i agree that we
should send a sensible message. as for anything else, i agree with
"hecklar". it should be the riders choice. i know for myself, i dont
wear anything besides a helmet. not because i feel that im safe, but
because i feel that they do restrict some movement that you need for
flopping aorund more than in trials. the only other people who flop
around like street riders are freestyle riders, and they certainly arent
wearing any. i bet they couldnt do some of the same stuff with leg
armour on, but im sure theyre allowed to (dont know the rules). as well,
i bet a lot of people will be using plastic pedals for grinding, and
they are a lot more shin friendly than metal ones.

another issue, i dont thikn there should be a restriction on the
unicycle being used. if they want to ride a 16", let them. if they want
to ride a coker with that crazy shifting hub, let them. i mean if having
a certain type of uni helps develop their style, then let it be. i think
however that it should be pedal driven (prohibiting bc wheels) but if
enough intrest arises, have a special category for bc wheels. but if you
restrict the type of unicycle, then it could potentially stop the
experimenting that street unicycling still needs since its still in its
beginning stages.

anyways, i think thats enough writing for now, i will write more if i
think of more. those are my thoughts john, and i think its awesome that
youre doing this. if i could be there to participate in it, i would.
unfortunately, funds are short these days, and my trials uni has been
broken completely (pretty much every part). you can write a response to
mine and disagree or agree with anything. im not attached to these ideas
lol. anyways, im off. good luck with this!

Kevin


--
tugboat - street unicyclist

"You won't get hurt if you land it!"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
tugboat's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/3298
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[johnfoss]

More great feedback -- keep it coming!

Here's my take on what I'm picking up:

Name:
Street Freestyle, Street, StreetStyle. So far still variations on the
word Street. The people who don't seem to like the word Freestyle appear
to be riders who have never watched a Freestyle competition. If we keep
it Street Freestyle, it can always be abbreviated to either of the two
suggested variations. The existing Freestyle event is not a limiting
environment, other than the 11 x 14 meter riding space. Riders have
always been free to ride whatever they want, and bring in whatever props
they want. Freestyle is not a negative on street.

How about Sidewalk Art? :cool:

My understanding is that in the BMX world the gound-based event is
called Flatland Freestyle. Has this changed? We are doing something
between flatland and vert. We can't vert very high. But it's still
freestyle as well.

Judging:

Even with existing rules, flowy riding will score better than 50
prehops. No problem there. Tugboat suggests "same as a skate comp." I
imagine there are lots of variations on that. I've seen lots of stuff on
TV, but never been able to find any detailed rules on the Internet.
Anybody know where some are? I'm interested in the *judging criteria*.
That is, the specific stuff the judges are looking for. It can't be too
loose, or the results of a competition will be based on what that set of
judges like, and not necessarily a fixed set of standards.

I like the idea of 5 or more judges, and tossing the high and low
scores. We are about to make some changes to how we judge Freestyle, and
those changes may be incorporated here, but we don't know what those
will be yet. For smaller competitions, you might be able to use less
judges or some less formal system. I'd like to try for a formal system
for MUni Weekend though, to try it out.

I like Robbie's idea of everyone having 2 or 3 goes, then narrowing that
group down to a set of finalists. I like the finalist idea for most
events, but it takes more time. At MUni Weekend I think we'll have the
time. Others' thoughts?

Venue:

Skate park is an interesting option, but is restrictive to event hosts.
If you already have access to a skate park that's great. But in Truckee,
the one park they have has a no-bikes rule. I don't have the time for
this MUni Weekend to try and contact someone, then get permission to
ride in there. Much easier to have and control our own riding space,
where we can make our own rules and use our own schedule. For future
competitions, a skate park might work great.

Also, Dan Heaton pointed out that most skate parks are too spread out to
make for a good competition. Whatever we do with this event, the
audience and entertainment aspects must always be kept in mind. The
Lloyd Johnson driveway is not perfect, but it will be the easiest place
to set up our comp for MUni Weekend.

Time limit:
3 minutes for the finals. If we do prelims, maybe 2 minutes for those.

Props:

During the development of the event, we'll probably have to keep it
pretty open. But I would at least like to give riders a list of what
will be available. In future, we might develop a list of required props,
that must be built or provided for each competition. This can make the
event harder to hold though, so I don't want to make it too
restrictive.

If there were a minimum list of stuff (to which hosts could add whatever
else they have), what would you want on it? I'll start a list:
- Grinding rail
- Low skinny
- High skinny
- Ramps
- Stairs with platform at top
- Low wall (how low?)
- High wall (how high?)

Safety Gear:
Two recommendations for helmets only. One suggested that's what other
skate comps use. Is that true? I'm thinking in terms of state-sized
competitions and higher, not local stuff. So helmets are a given. Still
listening for more opinions on the rest of it. Safety gear too
restrictive? We require it for High and Long jump, people have managed
some pretty amazing measurements with their safety gear in those. Try
some different gear. Remember, if we require kneepads for instance, that
will mean you can wear a pair of volleyball pads and be legal.
Comfortable, but less protection. At the moment I'm leaning toward just
helmets being required, and the rest up to you. Helmets will already be
required for anyone riding at Northstar.

Other:
Tugboat suggested markings on the ground for 1 rev away, 2, etc. This
assumes a certain tire diameter, which will not be the same for every
rider. I think better for riders to get comfortable with visualizing how
much space they'll need.

Also no restrictions are planned on the type or number of unicycles
used. Got something you want to show on a giraffe? go ahead. BC Wheel?
Why not (don't see why it needs to be pedal driven). Show up with a
plain old bike or something that doesn't fit the basic "unicycle"
assumption and the judges will know what to do.

Thanks everyone.


--
johnfoss - Walkin' on the edge

John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com

"Read the rules!"
'IUF Rulebook' (http://www.unicycling.org/iuf/rulebook/)
'USA Rulebook' (http://www.unicycling.org/usa/competition/)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
johnfoss's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/832
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[johnfoss]

More great feedback -- keep it coming!

Here's my take on what I'm picking up:

Name:
Street Freestyle, Street, StreetStyle. So far still variations on the
word Street. The people who don't seem to like the word Freestyle appear
to be riders who have never watched a Freestyle competition. If we keep
it Street Freestyle, it can always be abbreviated to either of the two
suggested variations. The existing Freestyle event is not a limiting
environment, other than the 11 x 14 meter riding space. Riders have
always been free to ride whatever they want, and bring in whatever props
they want. Freestyle is not a negative on street.

How about Sidewalk Art? :cool:

My understanding is that in the BMX world the gound-based event is
called Flatland Freestyle. Has this changed? We are doing something
between flatland and vert. We can't vert very high. But it's still
freestyle as well.

Judging:

Even with existing rules, flowy riding will score better than 50
prehops. No problem there. Tugboat suggests "same as a skate comp." I
imagine there are lots of variations on that. I've seen lots of stuff on
TV, but never been able to find any detailed rules on the Internet.
Anybody know where some are? I'm interested in the *judging criteria*.
That is, the specific stuff the judges are looking for. It can't be too
loose, or the results of a competition will be based on what that set of
judges like, and not necessarily a fixed set of standards.

I like the idea of 5 or more judges, and tossing the high and low
scores. We are about to make some changes to how we judge Freestyle, and
those changes may be incorporated here, but we don't know what those
will be yet. For smaller competitions, you might be able to use less
judges or some less formal system. I'd like to try for a formal system
for MUni Weekend though, to try it out.

I like Robbie's idea of everyone having 2 or 3 goes, then narrowing that
group down to a set of finalists. I like the finalist idea for most
events, but it takes more time. At MUni Weekend I think we'll have the
time. Others' thoughts?

Venue:

Skate park is an interesting option, but is restrictive to event hosts.
If you already have access to a skate park that's great. But in Truckee,
the one park they have has a no-bikes rule. I don't have the time for
this MUni Weekend to try and contact someone, then get permission to
ride in there. Much easier to have and control our own riding space,
where we can make our own rules and use our own schedule. For future
competitions, a skate park might work great.

Also, Dan Heaton pointed out that most skate parks are too spread out to
make for a good competition. Whatever we do with this event, the
audience and entertainment aspects must always be kept in mind. The
Lloyd Johnson driveway is not perfect, but it will be the easiest place
to set up our comp for MUni Weekend.

Time limit:
3 minutes for the finals. If we do prelims, maybe 2 minutes for those.

Props:

During the development of the event, we'll probably have to keep it
pretty open. But I would at least like to give riders a list of what
will be available. In future, we might develop a list of required props,
that must be built or provided for each competition. This can make the
event harder to hold though, so I don't want to make it too
restrictive.

If there were a minimum list of stuff (to which hosts could add whatever
else they have), what would you want on it? I'll start a list:
- Grinding rail
- Low skinny
- High skinny
- Ramps
- Stairs with platform at top
- Low wall (how low?)
- High wall (how high?)

Safety Gear:
Two recommendations for helmets only. One suggested that's what other
skate comps use. Is that true? I'm thinking in terms of state-sized
competitions and higher, not local stuff. So helmets are a given. Still
listening for more opinions on the rest of it. Safety gear too
restrictive? We require it for High and Long jump, people have managed
some pretty amazing measurements with their safety gear in those. Try
some different gear. Remember, if we require kneepads for instance, that
will mean you can wear a pair of volleyball pads and be legal.
Comfortable, but less protection. At the moment I'm leaning toward just
helmets being required, and the rest up to you. Helmets will already be
required for anyone riding at Northstar.

Other:
Tugboat suggested markings on the ground for 1 rev away, 2, etc. This
assumes a certain tire diameter, which will not be the same for every
rider. I think better for riders to get comfortable with visualizing how
much space they'll need.

Also no restrictions are planned on the type or number of unicycles
used. Got something you want to show on a giraffe? go ahead. BC Wheel?
Why not (don't see why it needs to be pedal driven). Show up with a
plain old bike or something that doesn't fit the basic "unicycle"
assumption and the judges will know what to do.

Thanks everyone.


--
johnfoss - Walkin' on the edge

John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com

"Read the rules!"
'IUF Rulebook' (http://www.unicycling.org/iuf/rulebook/)
'USA Rulebook' (http://www.unicycling.org/usa/competition/)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
johnfoss's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/832
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[johnfoss]

More great feedback -- keep it coming!

Here's my take on what I'm picking up:

Name:
Street Freestyle, Street, StreetStyle. So far still variations on the
word Street. The people who don't seem to like the word Freestyle appear
to be riders who have never watched a Freestyle competition. If we keep
it Street Freestyle, it can always be abbreviated to either of the two
suggested variations. The existing Freestyle event is not a limiting
environment, other than the 11 x 14 meter riding space. Riders have
always been free to ride whatever they want, and bring in whatever props
they want. Freestyle is not a negative on street.

How about Sidewalk Art? :cool:

My understanding is that in the BMX world the gound-based event is
called Flatland Freestyle. Has this changed? We are doing something
between flatland and vert. We can't vert very high. But it's still
freestyle as well.

Judging:

Even with existing rules, flowy riding will score better than 50
prehops. No problem there. Tugboat suggests "same as a skate comp." I
imagine there are lots of variations on that. I've seen lots of stuff on
TV, but never been able to find any detailed rules on the Internet.
Anybody know where some are? I'm interested in the *judging criteria*.
That is, the specific stuff the judges are looking for. It can't be too
loose, or the results of a competition will be based on what that set of
judges like, and not necessarily a fixed set of standards.

I like the idea of 5 or more judges, and tossing the high and low
scores. We are about to make some changes to how we judge Freestyle, and
those changes may be incorporated here, but we don't know what those
will be yet. For smaller competitions, you might be able to use less
judges or some less formal system. I'd like to try for a formal system
for MUni Weekend though, to try it out.

I like Robbie's idea of everyone having 2 or 3 goes, then narrowing that
group down to a set of finalists. I like the finalist idea for most
events, but it takes more time. At MUni Weekend I think we'll have the
time. Others' thoughts?

Venue:

Skate park is an interesting option, but is restrictive to event hosts.
If you already have access to a skate park that's great. But in Truckee,
the one park they have has a no-bikes rule. I don't have the time for
this MUni Weekend to try and contact someone, then get permission to
ride in there. Much easier to have and control our own riding space,
where we can make our own rules and use our own schedule. For future
competitions, a skate park might work great.

Also, Dan Heaton pointed out that most skate parks are too spread out to
make for a good competition. Whatever we do with this event, the
audience and entertainment aspects must always be kept in mind. The
Lloyd Johnson driveway is not perfect, but it will be the easiest place
to set up our comp for MUni Weekend.

Time limit:
3 minutes for the finals. If we do prelims, maybe 2 minutes for those.

Props:

During the development of the event, we'll probably have to keep it
pretty open. But I would at least like to give riders a list of what
will be available. In future, we might develop a list of required props,
that must be built or provided for each competition. This can make the
event harder to hold though, so I don't want to make it too
restrictive.

If there were a minimum list of stuff (to which hosts could add whatever
else they have), what would you want on it? I'll start a list:
- Grinding rail
- Low skinny
- High skinny
- Ramps
- Stairs with platform at top
- Low wall (how low?)
- High wall (how high?)

Safety Gear:
Two recommendations for helmets only. One suggested that's what other
skate comps use. Is that true? I'm thinking in terms of state-sized
competitions and higher, not local stuff. So helmets are a given. Still
listening for more opinions on the rest of it. Safety gear too
restrictive? We require it for High and Long jump, people have managed
some pretty amazing measurements with their safety gear in those. Try
some different gear. Remember, if we require kneepads for instance, that
will mean you can wear a pair of volleyball pads and be legal.
Comfortable, but less protection. At the moment I'm leaning toward just
helmets being required, and the rest up to you. Helmets will already be
required for anyone riding at Northstar.

Other:
Tugboat suggested markings on the ground for 1 rev away, 2, etc. This
assumes a certain tire diameter, which will not be the same for every
rider. I think better for riders to get comfortable with visualizing how
much space they'll need.

Also no restrictions are planned on the type or number of unicycles
used. Got something you want to show on a giraffe? go ahead. BC Wheel?
Why not (don't see why it needs to be pedal driven). Show up with a
plain old bike or something that doesn't fit the basic "unicycle"
assumption and the judges will know what to do.

Thanks everyone.


--
johnfoss - Walkin' on the edge

John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com

"Read the rules!"
'IUF Rulebook' (http://www.unicycling.org/iuf/rulebook/)
'USA Rulebook' (http://www.unicycling.org/usa/competition/)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
johnfoss's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/832
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[Checkernuts]

First off the name, Just call it a street comp. Everyone will know what
your talking about and adding freestyle or anything else just makes the
name longer than it needs to be. Right now there is not a drastic enough
difference in the types of street riding going on to qualify for the
seperation of different events.

Saftey Gear. My vote is for mandatory helmets and everything else to be
optional. If it is felt that knee/shin is needed I would go along with
that however I feel that wrist guards are limiting to alot of needed
movement in order to grip your seat properly.

Scoring. I will get back to at a later date.


--
Checkernuts - Me Fail English? That's Unpossible

No one said it was gonna be easy and I'm not afraid to try, with the
odds stacked up against me I will have to fight, One Life One Wheel got
to do it right. H20

My circus train pulls throught the night, full of lions and trapize
artists, I'm done with elephants and clowns, I want to runaway and join
the office.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checkernuts's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/801
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[Checkernuts]

First off the name, Just call it a street comp. Everyone will know what
your talking about and adding freestyle or anything else just makes the
name longer than it needs to be. Right now there is not a drastic enough
difference in the types of street riding going on to qualify for the
seperation of different events.

Saftey Gear. My vote is for mandatory helmets and everything else to be
optional. If it is felt that knee/shin is needed I would go along with
that however I feel that wrist guards are limiting to alot of needed
movement in order to grip your seat properly.

Scoring. I will get back to at a later date.


--
Checkernuts - Me Fail English? That's Unpossible

No one said it was gonna be easy and I'm not afraid to try, with the
odds stacked up against me I will have to fight, One Life One Wheel got
to do it right. H20

My circus train pulls throught the night, full of lions and trapize
artists, I'm done with elephants and clowns, I want to runaway and join
the office.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checkernuts's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/801
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[Checkernuts]

First off the name, Just call it a street comp. Everyone will know what
your talking about and adding freestyle or anything else just makes the
name longer than it needs to be. Right now there is not a drastic enough
difference in the types of street riding going on to qualify for the
seperation of different events.

Saftey Gear. My vote is for mandatory helmets and everything else to be
optional. If it is felt that knee/shin is needed I would go along with
that however I feel that wrist guards are limiting to alot of needed
movement in order to grip your seat properly.

Scoring. I will get back to at a later date.


--
Checkernuts - Me Fail English? That's Unpossible

No one said it was gonna be easy and I'm not afraid to try, with the
odds stacked up against me I will have to fight, One Life One Wheel got
to do it right. H20

My circus train pulls throught the night, full of lions and trapize
artists, I'm done with elephants and clowns, I want to runaway and join
the office.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checkernuts's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/801
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[TonyMelton]

I agree the comp should be called 'Street'. I've seen freestyle comps,
but I think Street is just a cooler name.

tugboat wrote:
> * for any obstacles (mostly stairs or downsloped ledges and rails)
> that will be used a lot and you need a perfect lineup, there should be
> markings on the ground as you ride up to them. these will tell you how
> many revolutions away you are form the obstacle (assuming you are on a
> 20 inch trials), and it allows you to try to line up a pedal however
> you wish before you reach the obstacle. *


An interesting idea, and could lead to more flowing riding. (I certainly
like to line grinds up before I do them, so not having to ride backwards
from the rail then forward into it would be good.) Usually before skate
comps there is a practise session for the riders to get warmed up and
try out the course. During this time you could suss out this kind of
thing.

John - the flatlanders I know in Auckland call their sport 'flatland'
not 'flatland freestyle'.


+0|\|>-


--
TonyMelton - Skinny butt

Three new albums added to 'my photo gallery'
(http://gallery.unicyclist.com/albur10). Check it!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[TonyMelton]

I agree the comp should be called 'Street'. I've seen freestyle comps,
but I think Street is just a cooler name.

tugboat wrote:
> * for any obstacles (mostly stairs or downsloped ledges and rails)
> that will be used a lot and you need a perfect lineup, there should be
> markings on the ground as you ride up to them. these will tell you how
> many revolutions away you are form the obstacle (assuming you are on a
> 20 inch trials), and it allows you to try to line up a pedal however
> you wish before you reach the obstacle. *


An interesting idea, and could lead to more flowing riding. (I certainly
like to line grinds up before I do them, so not having to ride backwards
from the rail then forward into it would be good.) Usually before skate
comps there is a practise session for the riders to get warmed up and
try out the course. During this time you could suss out this kind of
thing.

John - the flatlanders I know in Auckland call their sport 'flatland'
not 'flatland freestyle'.


+0|\|>-


--
TonyMelton - Skinny butt

Three new albums added to 'my photo gallery'
(http://gallery.unicyclist.com/albur10). Check it!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[TonyMelton]

I agree the comp should be called 'Street'. I've seen freestyle comps,
but I think Street is just a cooler name.

tugboat wrote:
> * for any obstacles (mostly stairs or downsloped ledges and rails)
> that will be used a lot and you need a perfect lineup, there should be
> markings on the ground as you ride up to them. these will tell you how
> many revolutions away you are form the obstacle (assuming you are on a
> 20 inch trials), and it allows you to try to line up a pedal however
> you wish before you reach the obstacle. *


An interesting idea, and could lead to more flowing riding. (I certainly
like to line grinds up before I do them, so not having to ride backwards
from the rail then forward into it would be good.) Usually before skate
comps there is a practise session for the riders to get warmed up and
try out the course. During this time you could suss out this kind of
thing.

John - the flatlanders I know in Auckland call their sport 'flatland'
not 'flatland freestyle'.


+0|\|>-


--
TonyMelton - Skinny butt

Three new albums added to 'my photo gallery'
(http://gallery.unicyclist.com/albur10). Check it!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[uniextreme]

johnfoss wrote:
> *
> Props:
>
> During the development of the event, we'll probably have to keep it
> pretty open. But I would at least like to give riders a list of what
> will be available. In future, we might develop a list of required
> props, that must be built or provided for each competition. This can
> make the event harder to hold though, so I don't want to make it too
> restrictive.
>
> If there were a minimum list of stuff (to which hosts could add
> whatever else they have), what would you want on it? I'll start a
> list:
> - Grinding rail
> - Low skinny
> - High skinny
> - Ramps
> - Stairs with platform at top
> - Low wall (how low?)
> - High wall (how high?)
>
>
> Thanks everyone. *


YA that stuff sounds cool, i dunno about the skinnies though since thats
not really street but it still would be cool. MAybe some picnic tables.
Also you caan just get some pallets throw a piece of plywood on top and
some coping on the side and you have a grindable. Hmm ya also for some
picnic tables you can flip upside down and the medal is a grind rail.
Kinda hard to explain but its the medal under the bench on the table
there should be 1, just look next time u see 1 and youll know what im
talkin about. And what do u mean by a wall?
BRian


--
uniextreme - Funkadelic Unicyclist

http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albuw09 ( A few street clips were just
added)

Scars are tatoos with better stories

"Unicycling looks hard then when you try to ride it its harder than it
looks" canadian after trying to ride my uni.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[uniextreme]

johnfoss wrote:
> *
> Props:
>
> During the development of the event, we'll probably have to keep it
> pretty open. But I would at least like to give riders a list of what
> will be available. In future, we might develop a list of required
> props, that must be built or provided for each competition. This can
> make the event harder to hold though, so I don't want to make it too
> restrictive.
>
> If there were a minimum list of stuff (to which hosts could add
> whatever else they have), what would you want on it? I'll start a
> list:
> - Grinding rail
> - Low skinny
> - High skinny
> - Ramps
> - Stairs with platform at top
> - Low wall (how low?)
> - High wall (how high?)
>
>
> Thanks everyone. *


YA that stuff sounds cool, i dunno about the skinnies though since thats
not really street but it still would be cool. MAybe some picnic tables.
Also you caan just get some pallets throw a piece of plywood on top and
some coping on the side and you have a grindable. Hmm ya also for some
picnic tables you can flip upside down and the medal is a grind rail.
Kinda hard to explain but its the medal under the bench on the table
there should be 1, just look next time u see 1 and youll know what im
talkin about. And what do u mean by a wall?
BRian


--
uniextreme - Funkadelic Unicyclist

http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albuw09 ( A few street clips were just
added)

Scars are tatoos with better stories

"Unicycling looks hard then when you try to ride it its harder than it
looks" canadian after trying to ride my uni.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[uniextreme]

johnfoss wrote:
> *
> Props:
>
> During the development of the event, we'll probably have to keep it
> pretty open. But I would at least like to give riders a list of what
> will be available. In future, we might develop a list of required
> props, that must be built or provided for each competition. This can
> make the event harder to hold though, so I don't want to make it too
> restrictive.
>
> If there were a minimum list of stuff (to which hosts could add
> whatever else they have), what would you want on it? I'll start a
> list:
> - Grinding rail
> - Low skinny
> - High skinny
> - Ramps
> - Stairs with platform at top
> - Low wall (how low?)
> - High wall (how high?)
>
>
> Thanks everyone. *


YA that stuff sounds cool, i dunno about the skinnies though since thats
not really street but it still would be cool. MAybe some picnic tables.
Also you caan just get some pallets throw a piece of plywood on top and
some coping on the side and you have a grindable. Hmm ya also for some
picnic tables you can flip upside down and the medal is a grind rail.
Kinda hard to explain but its the medal under the bench on the table
there should be 1, just look next time u see 1 and youll know what im
talkin about. And what do u mean by a wall?
BRian


--
uniextreme - Funkadelic Unicyclist

http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albuw09 ( A few street clips were just
added)

Scars are tatoos with better stories

"Unicycling looks hard then when you try to ride it its harder than it
looks" canadian after trying to ride my uni.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[leo]

1) just do it the same as BMX (to avoid confusion):

street should be called street.
unicycling without any obstacles you could call flatland.

Those names covers well what's it about.


--
leo - errorist

Leo Vandewoestijne [-lay?oh! fun-duh-wwho-styne-uhh-]
866-UNI-CYCL
'unicycle.net' (http://www.unicycle.net/) (about me)
'unicyclist.org' (http://unicyclist.org/) (for all unicyclists and
alike)

Dutch radio reporter Jaques Chapel in Athens, checking an ISDN line
before an Olympic radio broadcast while getting used to security
measures: "and suddenly I have a soldier pointing a machine gun in my
back. So, I talk English, he shouts Greek. So what do you do? Just
ignore him and finish the job".
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[leo]

1) just do it the same as BMX (to avoid confusion):

street should be called street.
unicycling without any obstacles you could call flatland.

Those names covers well what's it about.


--
leo - errorist

Leo Vandewoestijne [-lay?oh! fun-duh-wwho-styne-uhh-]
866-UNI-CYCL
'unicycle.net' (http://www.unicycle.net/) (about me)
'unicyclist.org' (http://unicyclist.org/) (for all unicyclists and
alike)

Dutch radio reporter Jaques Chapel in Athens, checking an ISDN line
before an Olympic radio broadcast while getting used to security
measures: "and suddenly I have a soldier pointing a machine gun in my
back. So, I talk English, he shouts Greek. So what do you do? Just
ignore him and finish the job".
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[leo]

1) just do it the same as BMX (to avoid confusion):

street should be called street.
unicycling without any obstacles you could call flatland.

Those names covers well what's it about.


--
leo - errorist

Leo Vandewoestijne [-lay?oh! fun-duh-wwho-styne-uhh-]
866-UNI-CYCL
'unicycle.net' (http://www.unicycle.net/) (about me)
'unicyclist.org' (http://unicyclist.org/) (for all unicyclists and
alike)

Dutch radio reporter Jaques Chapel in Athens, checking an ISDN line
before an Olympic radio broadcast while getting used to security
measures: "and suddenly I have a soldier pointing a machine gun in my
back. So, I talk English, he shouts Greek. So what do you do? Just
ignore him and finish the job".
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[leo]

1) just do it the same as BMX (to avoid confusion):

street should be called street.
unicycling without any obstacles you could call flatland.

Those names covers well what's it about.


--
leo - errorist

Leo Vandewoestijne [-lay?oh! fun-duh-wwho-styne-uhh-]
866-UNI-CYCL
'unicycle.net' (http://www.unicycle.net/) (about me)
'unicyclist.org' (http://unicyclist.org/) (for all unicyclists and
alike)

Dutch radio reporter Jaques Chapel in Athens, checking an ISDN line
before an Olympic radio broadcast while getting used to security
measures: "and suddenly I have a soldier pointing a machine gun in my
back. So, I talk English, he shouts Greek. So what do you do? Just
ignore him and finish the job".
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[danger_uni]

leo wrote:
> *1) just do it the same as BMX (to avoid confusion):
>
> street should be called street.
> unicycling without any obstacles you could call flatland.
>
> Those names covers well what's it about. *


I agree with this terminology. Open X as it is right now is basically
flatland, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Without talking about anything to do with flowing/non flowing style
etc., the fundamental differerence between trials and street is that
riding obstacles is the end objective with trials, whereas in street the
obstacles are not the end objective: the end objective is use obstacles
as props to set up moves.

Whether or not a rider can flow well in what they're doing has to do
with rider skill, not whether it's trials or street.

Kris


--
danger_uni - Kris Holm
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[danger_uni]

leo wrote:
> *1) just do it the same as BMX (to avoid confusion):
>
> street should be called street.
> unicycling without any obstacles you could call flatland.
>
> Those names covers well what's it about. *


I agree with this terminology. Open X as it is right now is basically
flatland, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Without talking about anything to do with flowing/non flowing style
etc., the fundamental differerence between trials and street is that
riding obstacles is the end objective with trials, whereas in street the
obstacles are not the end objective: the end objective is use obstacles
as props to set up moves.

Whether or not a rider can flow well in what they're doing has to do
with rider skill, not whether it's trials or street.

Kris


--
danger_uni - Kris Holm
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[danger_uni]

leo wrote:
> *1) just do it the same as BMX (to avoid confusion):
>
> street should be called street.
> unicycling without any obstacles you could call flatland.
>
> Those names covers well what's it about. *


I agree with this terminology. Open X as it is right now is basically
flatland, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Without talking about anything to do with flowing/non flowing style
etc., the fundamental differerence between trials and street is that
riding obstacles is the end objective with trials, whereas in street the
obstacles are not the end objective: the end objective is use obstacles
as props to set up moves.

Whether or not a rider can flow well in what they're doing has to do
with rider skill, not whether it's trials or street.

Kris


--
danger_uni - Kris Holm
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[danger_uni]

leo wrote:
> *1) just do it the same as BMX (to avoid confusion):
>
> street should be called street.
> unicycling without any obstacles you could call flatland.
>
> Those names covers well what's it about. *


I agree with this terminology. Open X as it is right now is basically
flatland, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Without talking about anything to do with flowing/non flowing style
etc., the fundamental differerence between trials and street is that
riding obstacles is the end objective with trials, whereas in street the
obstacles are not the end objective: the end objective is use obstacles
as props to set up moves.

Whether or not a rider can flow well in what they're doing has to do
with rider skill, not whether it's trials or street.

Kris


--
danger_uni - Kris Holm
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[PopeSamXVI]

All this talk of the props for street tricks, I wonder where the
attention to freestyle is. Is it something like riding a rail whilst
seat dragging in front, or hopping on the wheel onto something else?

Anyway, I think a good name would be Freestreet, or Free Street, or any
hyphenated version.


--
PopeSamXVI - Resident Hogwasher/Hornswaggler

Karol Jozef Wojtyla Forever!

I really am the president of my own fan club. www.samhunterfanclub.tk
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[PopeSamXVI]

All this talk of the props for street tricks, I wonder where the
attention to freestyle is. Is it something like riding a rail whilst
seat dragging in front, or hopping on the wheel onto something else?

Anyway, I think a good name would be Freestreet, or Free Street, or any
hyphenated version.


--
PopeSamXVI - Resident Hogwasher/Hornswaggler

Karol Jozef Wojtyla Forever!

I really am the president of my own fan club. www.samhunterfanclub.tk
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[PopeSamXVI]

All this talk of the props for street tricks, I wonder where the
attention to freestyle is. Is it something like riding a rail whilst
seat dragging in front, or hopping on the wheel onto something else?

Anyway, I think a good name would be Freestreet, or Free Street, or any
hyphenated version.


--
PopeSamXVI - Resident Hogwasher/Hornswaggler

Karol Jozef Wojtyla Forever!

I really am the president of my own fan club. www.samhunterfanclub.tk
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[PopeSamXVI]

All this talk of the props for street tricks, I wonder where the
attention to freestyle is. Is it something like riding a rail whilst
seat dragging in front, or hopping on the wheel onto something else?

Anyway, I think a good name would be Freestreet, or Free Street, or any
hyphenated version.


--
PopeSamXVI - Resident Hogwasher/Hornswaggler

Karol Jozef Wojtyla Forever!

I really am the president of my own fan club. www.samhunterfanclub.tk
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Klaas Bil]

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 08:25:06 -0500, "hecklar" wrote:

>I think it should just be called 'Street Unicycling'.

Do we feel the name needs to make it clear you don't include someone
using their unicycle on the street to post a letter or run errands?

Klaas Bil - Newsgroup Addict
--
I like the idea of not having to balance when out on a ride - joe

[Klaas Bil]

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 08:25:06 -0500, "hecklar" wrote:

>I think it should just be called 'Street Unicycling'.

Do we feel the name needs to make it clear you don't include someone
using their unicycle on the street to post a letter or run errands?

Klaas Bil - Newsgroup Addict
--
I like the idea of not having to balance when out on a ride - joe

[Klaas Bil]

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 08:25:06 -0500, "hecklar" wrote:

>I think it should just be called 'Street Unicycling'.

Do we feel the name needs to make it clear you don't include someone
using their unicycle on the street to post a letter or run errands?

Klaas Bil - Newsgroup Addict
--
I like the idea of not having to balance when out on a ride - joe

[Klaas Bil]

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 08:25:06 -0500, "hecklar" wrote:

>I think it should just be called 'Street Unicycling'.

Do we feel the name needs to make it clear you don't include someone
using their unicycle on the street to post a letter or run errands?

Klaas Bil - Newsgroup Addict
--
I like the idea of not having to balance when out on a ride - joe

[Robbie]

I really desperately think it should be called just Street. Or the
Street comp. But don't have freestyle in it, as Kevin said it Street is
it's own style. I like Kevin's idea about the judges and almost
everything he said except for the bit about the markings.

Sometimes when I'm out riding my tyre pressure goes down a bit between
the start and the end of the day, just from doing what I normally do.
Sometimes this makes a significant difference to where my rolling hop
start points were before, and people in Street comps will have different
pressures, and weigh more or less than others, also remembering that he
said they can use a 16" if the want, so it wouldn't really work.

If your going to have markings I suggest you have a small mark with your
name written next to it and everyone lines their own up before the comp,
then when a rider comes up to do their run a bright coloured strip of
something is placed at their mark so they can tell where they should be.
The riders would be allowed to go and remove their markings and make a
new one at any time.


--
Robbie - Street Unicyclist

[image: http://gallery.unicyclist.com/albums/greeny23-1/dr_z.gif]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Robbie]

I really desperately think it should be called just Street. Or the
Street comp. But don't have freestyle in it, as Kevin said it Street is
it's own style. I like Kevin's idea about the judges and almost
everything he said except for the bit about the markings.

Sometimes when I'm out riding my tyre pressure goes down a bit between
the start and the end of the day, just from doing what I normally do.
Sometimes this makes a significant difference to where my rolling hop
start points were before, and people in Street comps will have different
pressures, and weigh more or less than others, also remembering that he
said they can use a 16" if the want, so it wouldn't really work.

If your going to have markings I suggest you have a small mark with your
name written next to it and everyone lines their own up before the comp,
then when a rider comes up to do their run a bright coloured strip of
something is placed at their mark so they can tell where they should be.
The riders would be allowed to go and remove their markings and make a
new one at any time.


--
Robbie - Street Unicyclist

[image: http://gallery.unicyclist.com/albums/greeny23-1/dr_z.gif]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Robbie]

I really desperately think it should be called just Street. Or the
Street comp. But don't have freestyle in it, as Kevin said it Street is
it's own style. I like Kevin's idea about the judges and almost
everything he said except for the bit about the markings.

Sometimes when I'm out riding my tyre pressure goes down a bit between
the start and the end of the day, just from doing what I normally do.
Sometimes this makes a significant difference to where my rolling hop
start points were before, and people in Street comps will have different
pressures, and weigh more or less than others, also remembering that he
said they can use a 16" if the want, so it wouldn't really work.

If your going to have markings I suggest you have a small mark with your
name written next to it and everyone lines their own up before the comp,
then when a rider comes up to do their run a bright coloured strip of
something is placed at their mark so they can tell where they should be.
The riders would be allowed to go and remove their markings and make a
new one at any time.


--
Robbie - Street Unicyclist

[image: http://gallery.unicyclist.com/albums/greeny23-1/dr_z.gif]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Robbie]

I really desperately think it should be called just Street. Or the
Street comp. But don't have freestyle in it, as Kevin said it Street is
it's own style. I like Kevin's idea about the judges and almost
everything he said except for the bit about the markings.

Sometimes when I'm out riding my tyre pressure goes down a bit between
the start and the end of the day, just from doing what I normally do.
Sometimes this makes a significant difference to where my rolling hop
start points were before, and people in Street comps will have different
pressures, and weigh more or less than others, also remembering that he
said they can use a 16" if the want, so it wouldn't really work.

If your going to have markings I suggest you have a small mark with your
name written next to it and everyone lines their own up before the comp,
then when a rider comes up to do their run a bright coloured strip of
something is placed at their mark so they can tell where they should be.
The riders would be allowed to go and remove their markings and make a
new one at any time.


--
Robbie - Street Unicyclist

[image: http://gallery.unicyclist.com/albums/greeny23-1/dr_z.gif]
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[tugboat]

hello. i still think the markings are a good idea, and i was talking to
dan heaton about it as well. we both feel that they are essential. even
if you are allowed to make your own markings like robbie said. either
way, there needs to be some way to do it or else i dont think it would
work. only my opinion though i guess.

Kevin


--
tugboat - street unicyclist

"You won't get hurt if you land it!"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[tugboat]

hello. i still think the markings are a good idea, and i was talking to
dan heaton about it as well. we both feel that they are essential. even
if you are allowed to make your own markings like robbie said. either
way, there needs to be some way to do it or else i dont think it would
work. only my opinion though i guess.

Kevin


--
tugboat - street unicyclist

"You won't get hurt if you land it!"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[tugboat]

hello. i still think the markings are a good idea, and i was talking to
dan heaton about it as well. we both feel that they are essential. even
if you are allowed to make your own markings like robbie said. either
way, there needs to be some way to do it or else i dont think it would
work. only my opinion though i guess.

Kevin


--
tugboat - street unicyclist

"You won't get hurt if you land it!"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[tugboat]

hello. i still think the markings are a good idea, and i was talking to
dan heaton about it as well. we both feel that they are essential. even
if you are allowed to make your own markings like robbie said. either
way, there needs to be some way to do it or else i dont think it would
work. only my opinion though i guess.

Kevin


--
tugboat - street unicyclist

"You won't get hurt if you land it!"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Ken Cline]

(Klaas Bil) writes:

> Do we feel the name needs to make it clear you don't include someone
> using their unicycle on the street to post a letter or run errands?

I don't think so. That would be road unicycling, not street.

Ken

[Ken Cline]

(Klaas Bil) writes:

> Do we feel the name needs to make it clear you don't include someone
> using their unicycle on the street to post a letter or run errands?

I don't think so. That would be road unicycling, not street.

Ken

[Ken Cline]

(Klaas Bil) writes:

> Do we feel the name needs to make it clear you don't include someone
> using their unicycle on the street to post a letter or run errands?

I don't think so. That would be road unicycling, not street.

Ken

[Ken Cline]

(Klaas Bil) writes:

> Do we feel the name needs to make it clear you don't include someone
> using their unicycle on the street to post a letter or run errands?

I don't think so. That would be road unicycling, not street.

Ken

[PopeSamXVI]

There's a lot of talk about it just being called Street. The idea isn't
to have a street competition, it's to mix street and freestyle.

Correct me if I'm wrong.


--
PopeSamXVI - Resident Hogwasher/Hornswaggler

Karol Jozef Wojtyla Forever!

I really am the president of my own fan club. www.samhunterfanclub.tk
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[PopeSamXVI]

There's a lot of talk about it just being called Street. The idea isn't
to have a street competition, it's to mix street and freestyle.

Correct me if I'm wrong.


--
PopeSamXVI - Resident Hogwasher/Hornswaggler

Karol Jozef Wojtyla Forever!

I really am the president of my own fan club. www.samhunterfanclub.tk
------------------------------------------------------------------------
PopeSamXVI's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/6661
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[PopeSamXVI]

There's a lot of talk about it just being called Street. The idea isn't
to have a street competition, it's to mix street and freestyle.

Correct me if I'm wrong.


--
PopeSamXVI - Resident Hogwasher/Hornswaggler

Karol Jozef Wojtyla Forever!

I really am the president of my own fan club. www.samhunterfanclub.tk
------------------------------------------------------------------------
PopeSamXVI's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/6661
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[PopeSamXVI]

There's a lot of talk about it just being called Street. The idea isn't
to have a street competition, it's to mix street and freestyle.

Correct me if I'm wrong.


--
PopeSamXVI - Resident Hogwasher/Hornswaggler

Karol Jozef Wojtyla Forever!

I really am the president of my own fan club. www.samhunterfanclub.tk
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[uniextreme]

I dont get how this whole marking idea would work. Everyone would have
to be hittin the same lines and there is no way to be sure they will be
right you may hit stuff at a different angle.
Brian


--
uniextreme - Funkadelic Unicyclist

http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albuw09 ( A few street clips were just
added)

Scars are tatoos with better stories

"Unicycling looks hard then when you try to ride it its harder than it
looks" canadian after trying to ride my uni.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[uniextreme]

I dont get how this whole marking idea would work. Everyone would have
to be hittin the same lines and there is no way to be sure they will be
right you may hit stuff at a different angle.
Brian


--
uniextreme - Funkadelic Unicyclist

http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albuw09 ( A few street clips were just
added)

Scars are tatoos with better stories

"Unicycling looks hard then when you try to ride it its harder than it
looks" canadian after trying to ride my uni.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[uniextreme]

I dont get how this whole marking idea would work. Everyone would have
to be hittin the same lines and there is no way to be sure they will be
right you may hit stuff at a different angle.
Brian


--
uniextreme - Funkadelic Unicyclist

http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albuw09 ( A few street clips were just
added)

Scars are tatoos with better stories

"Unicycling looks hard then when you try to ride it its harder than it
looks" canadian after trying to ride my uni.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[uniextreme]

I dont get how this whole marking idea would work. Everyone would have
to be hittin the same lines and there is no way to be sure they will be
right you may hit stuff at a different angle.
Brian


--
uniextreme - Funkadelic Unicyclist

http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albuw09 ( A few street clips were just
added)

Scars are tatoos with better stories

"Unicycling looks hard then when you try to ride it its harder than it
looks" canadian after trying to ride my uni.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[johnfoss]

PopeSamXVI wrote:
> *There's a lot of talk about it just being called Street. The idea
> isn't to have a street competition, it's to mix street and freestyle.*
Here is how Kris Holm defines "street" unicycling in relation to
Trials:
The fundamental differerence between trials and street is that riding
obstacles is the end objective with trials, whereas in street the
obstacles are not the end objective: the end objective is use obstacles
as props to set up moves.

When Kris speaks, I listen.

But that only covers part of this question. Is it freestyle, or isn't
it? There are two ways of looking at what we, in unicycling, call
freesyle. By "we", I mean people who go to and compete in unicycle
freestyle competitions. Pardon me if I don't pay as much attention to
you if you've never seen a unicycle freestyle competition or read the
rules. Other definitions of freestyle, for other sports, do not
necessarily apply.

I think of unicycle freestyle under two different categories. The basic
definition is something like "doing (any kinds of) tricks on flat ground
(on any types of unicycle)." In that simplified definition, it is
separated from our other main event, Standard Skill, by the fact that a
freestyler can do whatever tricks he thinks up. In Standard Skill, they
have to already exist and be on the list, with a known point value.

But unicycle freestyle *competition* is more than just that. It's a
show. You are judged not just on what tricks you do, but on how many,
how well you do them, how much variety, and originality they have. You
are also judged on a presentation score that includes choreography,
showmanship, and many other things that basically don't fit the mold for
this street event.

I want to see some style in this event, not just a series of tricks. But
not the full-on style of freestyle, where your music and costume are
judged. Just that riders will get a better score if they have some
personality, make their routines interesting, and otherwise acknowledge
that they are doing this in front of a group of spectators.

In Standard Skill, the spectators are irrelevant. In freestyle, they are
considered in the overall equation. I think they should be in the street
event as well. But this would not be a major part of the scoring
process.

I went searching for some BMX flatland or similar rules, but didn't come
up with anything useful. On EXPN.com I found their set of "rules" for
flatland competition, but it doesn't explain anything about how the
judges should determine their scores. The math part is the easy part! I
also found the UCI rules for BMX racing. That was fascinating, but
nothing on flatland.

So I'm running on too long, as usual. Let me sum up.

1. Freestyle is not "bad." Don't know why you guys don't like it.

2. I'm leaning toward the formal name of Street Freestyle, but we can
abbreviate it to Street for most usage. In future, the Freestyle part
may be dropped. But what we learn with this event might also work to
influence the much older Freestyle event.

3. If we ever want to do a Flatland competition outdoors, I think it
should replace Open-X. Open-X worked very well at this past Unicon, but
it really needs to be outdoors to fourish, where the Trials unis can run
free.

4. As in Open-X, I want to keep an element of showmanship in the
performances. This would be a minor part; just enough to remind the
competitors to be aware that they have an audience. It would not have
the same weight as the Style section of current Open-X rules.

5. Difficulty judging would look for a certain amount of obstacle
skills. All obstacle skills would probably be okay, but all flatland
would reduce the score.


--
johnfoss - Walkin' on the edge

John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com

"Read the rules!"
'IUF Rulebook' (http://www.unicycling.org/iuf/rulebook/)
'USA Rulebook' (http://www.unicycling.org/usa/competition/)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[johnfoss]

PopeSamXVI wrote:
> *There's a lot of talk about it just being called Street. The idea
> isn't to have a street competition, it's to mix street and freestyle.*
Here is how Kris Holm defines "street" unicycling in relation to
Trials:
The fundamental differerence between trials and street is that riding
obstacles is the end objective with trials, whereas in street the
obstacles are not the end objective: the end objective is use obstacles
as props to set up moves.

When Kris speaks, I listen.

But that only covers part of this question. Is it freestyle, or isn't
it? There are two ways of looking at what we, in unicycling, call
freesyle. By "we", I mean people who go to and compete in unicycle
freestyle competitions. Pardon me if I don't pay as much attention to
you if you've never seen a unicycle freestyle competition or read the
rules. Other definitions of freestyle, for other sports, do not
necessarily apply.

I think of unicycle freestyle under two different categories. The basic
definition is something like "doing (any kinds of) tricks on flat ground
(on any types of unicycle)." In that simplified definition, it is
separated from our other main event, Standard Skill, by the fact that a
freestyler can do whatever tricks he thinks up. In Standard Skill, they
have to already exist and be on the list, with a known point value.

But unicycle freestyle *competition* is more than just that. It's a
show. You are judged not just on what tricks you do, but on how many,
how well you do them, how much variety, and originality they have. You
are also judged on a presentation score that includes choreography,
showmanship, and many other things that basically don't fit the mold for
this street event.

I want to see some style in this event, not just a series of tricks. But
not the full-on style of freestyle, where your music and costume are
judged. Just that riders will get a better score if they have some
personality, make their routines interesting, and otherwise acknowledge
that they are doing this in front of a group of spectators.

In Standard Skill, the spectators are irrelevant. In freestyle, they are
considered in the overall equation. I think they should be in the street
event as well. But this would not be a major part of the scoring
process.

I went searching for some BMX flatland or similar rules, but didn't come
up with anything useful. On EXPN.com I found their set of "rules" for
flatland competition, but it doesn't explain anything about how the
judges should determine their scores. The math part is the easy part! I
also found the UCI rules for BMX racing. That was fascinating, but
nothing on flatland.

So I'm running on too long, as usual. Let me sum up.

1. Freestyle is not "bad." Don't know why you guys don't like it.

2. I'm leaning toward the formal name of Street Freestyle, but we can
abbreviate it to Street for most usage. In future, the Freestyle part
may be dropped. But what we learn with this event might also work to
influence the much older Freestyle event.

3. If we ever want to do a Flatland competition outdoors, I think it
should replace Open-X. Open-X worked very well at this past Unicon, but
it really needs to be outdoors to fourish, where the Trials unis can run
free.

4. As in Open-X, I want to keep an element of showmanship in the
performances. This would be a minor part; just enough to remind the
competitors to be aware that they have an audience. It would not have
the same weight as the Style section of current Open-X rules.

5. Difficulty judging would look for a certain amount of obstacle
skills. All obstacle skills would probably be okay, but all flatland
would reduce the score.


--
johnfoss - Walkin' on the edge

John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com

"Read the rules!"
'IUF Rulebook' (http://www.unicycling.org/iuf/rulebook/)
'USA Rulebook' (http://www.unicycling.org/usa/competition/)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[johnfoss]

PopeSamXVI wrote:
> *There's a lot of talk about it just being called Street. The idea
> isn't to have a street competition, it's to mix street and freestyle.*
Here is how Kris Holm defines "street" unicycling in relation to
Trials:
The fundamental differerence between trials and street is that riding
obstacles is the end objective with trials, whereas in street the
obstacles are not the end objective: the end objective is use obstacles
as props to set up moves.

When Kris speaks, I listen.

But that only covers part of this question. Is it freestyle, or isn't
it? There are two ways of looking at what we, in unicycling, call
freesyle. By "we", I mean people who go to and compete in unicycle
freestyle competitions. Pardon me if I don't pay as much attention to
you if you've never seen a unicycle freestyle competition or read the
rules. Other definitions of freestyle, for other sports, do not
necessarily apply.

I think of unicycle freestyle under two different categories. The basic
definition is something like "doing (any kinds of) tricks on flat ground
(on any types of unicycle)." In that simplified definition, it is
separated from our other main event, Standard Skill, by the fact that a
freestyler can do whatever tricks he thinks up. In Standard Skill, they
have to already exist and be on the list, with a known point value.

But unicycle freestyle *competition* is more than just that. It's a
show. You are judged not just on what tricks you do, but on how many,
how well you do them, how much variety, and originality they have. You
are also judged on a presentation score that includes choreography,
showmanship, and many other things that basically don't fit the mold for
this street event.

I want to see some style in this event, not just a series of tricks. But
not the full-on style of freestyle, where your music and costume are
judged. Just that riders will get a better score if they have some
personality, make their routines interesting, and otherwise acknowledge
that they are doing this in front of a group of spectators.

In Standard Skill, the spectators are irrelevant. In freestyle, they are
considered in the overall equation. I think they should be in the street
event as well. But this would not be a major part of the scoring
process.

I went searching for some BMX flatland or similar rules, but didn't come
up with anything useful. On EXPN.com I found their set of "rules" for
flatland competition, but it doesn't explain anything about how the
judges should determine their scores. The math part is the easy part! I
also found the UCI rules for BMX racing. That was fascinating, but
nothing on flatland.

So I'm running on too long, as usual. Let me sum up.

1. Freestyle is not "bad." Don't know why you guys don't like it.

2. I'm leaning toward the formal name of Street Freestyle, but we can
abbreviate it to Street for most usage. In future, the Freestyle part
may be dropped. But what we learn with this event might also work to
influence the much older Freestyle event.

3. If we ever want to do a Flatland competition outdoors, I think it
should replace Open-X. Open-X worked very well at this past Unicon, but
it really needs to be outdoors to fourish, where the Trials unis can run
free.

4. As in Open-X, I want to keep an element of showmanship in the
performances. This would be a minor part; just enough to remind the
competitors to be aware that they have an audience. It would not have
the same weight as the Style section of current Open-X rules.

5. Difficulty judging would look for a certain amount of obstacle
skills. All obstacle skills would probably be okay, but all flatland
would reduce the score.


--
johnfoss - Walkin' on the edge

John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com

"Read the rules!"
'IUF Rulebook' (http://www.unicycling.org/iuf/rulebook/)
'USA Rulebook' (http://www.unicycling.org/usa/competition/)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[johnfoss]

PopeSamXVI wrote:
> *There's a lot of talk about it just being called Street. The idea
> isn't to have a street competition, it's to mix street and freestyle.*
Here is how Kris Holm defines "street" unicycling in relation to
Trials:
The fundamental differerence between trials and street is that riding
obstacles is the end objective with trials, whereas in street the
obstacles are not the end objective: the end objective is use obstacles
as props to set up moves.

When Kris speaks, I listen.

But that only covers part of this question. Is it freestyle, or isn't
it? There are two ways of looking at what we, in unicycling, call
freesyle. By "we", I mean people who go to and compete in unicycle
freestyle competitions. Pardon me if I don't pay as much attention to
you if you've never seen a unicycle freestyle competition or read the
rules. Other definitions of freestyle, for other sports, do not
necessarily apply.

I think of unicycle freestyle under two different categories. The basic
definition is something like "doing (any kinds of) tricks on flat ground
(on any types of unicycle)." In that simplified definition, it is
separated from our other main event, Standard Skill, by the fact that a
freestyler can do whatever tricks he thinks up. In Standard Skill, they
have to already exist and be on the list, with a known point value.

But unicycle freestyle *competition* is more than just that. It's a
show. You are judged not just on what tricks you do, but on how many,
how well you do them, how much variety, and originality they have. You
are also judged on a presentation score that includes choreography,
showmanship, and many other things that basically don't fit the mold for
this street event.

I want to see some style in this event, not just a series of tricks. But
not the full-on style of freestyle, where your music and costume are
judged. Just that riders will get a better score if they have some
personality, make their routines interesting, and otherwise acknowledge
that they are doing this in front of a group of spectators.

In Standard Skill, the spectators are irrelevant. In freestyle, they are
considered in the overall equation. I think they should be in the street
event as well. But this would not be a major part of the scoring
process.

I went searching for some BMX flatland or similar rules, but didn't come
up with anything useful. On EXPN.com I found their set of "rules" for
flatland competition, but it doesn't explain anything about how the
judges should determine their scores. The math part is the easy part! I
also found the UCI rules for BMX racing. That was fascinating, but
nothing on flatland.

So I'm running on too long, as usual. Let me sum up.

1. Freestyle is not "bad." Don't know why you guys don't like it.

2. I'm leaning toward the formal name of Street Freestyle, but we can
abbreviate it to Street for most usage. In future, the Freestyle part
may be dropped. But what we learn with this event might also work to
influence the much older Freestyle event.

3. If we ever want to do a Flatland competition outdoors, I think it
should replace Open-X. Open-X worked very well at this past Unicon, but
it really needs to be outdoors to fourish, where the Trials unis can run
free.

4. As in Open-X, I want to keep an element of showmanship in the
performances. This would be a minor part; just enough to remind the
competitors to be aware that they have an audience. It would not have
the same weight as the Style section of current Open-X rules.

5. Difficulty judging would look for a certain amount of obstacle
skills. All obstacle skills would probably be okay, but all flatland
would reduce the score.


--
johnfoss - Walkin' on the edge

John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com

"Read the rules!"
'IUF Rulebook' (http://www.unicycling.org/iuf/rulebook/)
'USA Rulebook' (http://www.unicycling.org/usa/competition/)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[Ken Cline]

> But that only covers part of this question. Is it freestyle, or isn't
> it?

Its not your father's freestyle competition, that's for sure. I don't
have a stake in what you call it, but leaving out the work "freestyle"
makes sense to me in that I expect significant differences in the
style of riding.

> I want to see some style in this event, not just a series of tricks. But
> not the full-on style of freestyle, where your music and costume are
> judged.
....
> 1. Freestyle is not "bad." Don't know why you guys don't like it.

I'm not big on costumes and showy choreography. That's not to say I
lack appreciation of Freestyle competitions, but I don't feel
personally drawn to them. Consider differences in style between ice
skating competitions and gymnastics. Skating is more highly stylized,
where in gymnastics the focus is on executing skills (though they are
still linked in graceful routines). I don't dislike ice skating, but
I don't go out of my way to watch it as I do with gymnastics. I see
street as being closer to the feel of gymnastics if you follow the
analogy.

Anyway, I think you are right on track to set up a great new event.
Thanks for working hard to include a new style of riding in organized
unicycling events.

Ken

[Ken Cline]

> But that only covers part of this question. Is it freestyle, or isn't
> it?

Its not your father's freestyle competition, that's for sure. I don't
have a stake in what you call it, but leaving out the work "freestyle"
makes sense to me in that I expect significant differences in the
style of riding.

> I want to see some style in this event, not just a series of tricks. But
> not the full-on style of freestyle, where your music and costume are
> judged.
....
> 1. Freestyle is not "bad." Don't know why you guys don't like it.

I'm not big on costumes and showy choreography. That's not to say I
lack appreciation of Freestyle competitions, but I don't feel
personally drawn to them. Consider differences in style between ice
skating competitions and gymnastics. Skating is more highly stylized,
where in gymnastics the focus is on executing skills (though they are
still linked in graceful routines). I don't dislike ice skating, but
I don't go out of my way to watch it as I do with gymnastics. I see
street as being closer to the feel of gymnastics if you follow the
analogy.

Anyway, I think you are right on track to set up a great new event.
Thanks for working hard to include a new style of riding in organized
unicycling events.

Ken

[Ken Cline]

> But that only covers part of this question. Is it freestyle, or isn't
> it?

Its not your father's freestyle competition, that's for sure. I don't
have a stake in what you call it, but leaving out the work "freestyle"
makes sense to me in that I expect significant differences in the
style of riding.

> I want to see some style in this event, not just a series of tricks. But
> not the full-on style of freestyle, where your music and costume are
> judged.
....
> 1. Freestyle is not "bad." Don't know why you guys don't like it.

I'm not big on costumes and showy choreography. That's not to say I
lack appreciation of Freestyle competitions, but I don't feel
personally drawn to them. Consider differences in style between ice
skating competitions and gymnastics. Skating is more highly stylized,
where in gymnastics the focus is on executing skills (though they are
still linked in graceful routines). I don't dislike ice skating, but
I don't go out of my way to watch it as I do with gymnastics. I see
street as being closer to the feel of gymnastics if you follow the
analogy.

Anyway, I think you are right on track to set up a great new event.
Thanks for working hard to include a new style of riding in organized
unicycling events.

Ken

[Ken Cline]

> But that only covers part of this question. Is it freestyle, or isn't
> it?

Its not your father's freestyle competition, that's for sure. I don't
have a stake in what you call it, but leaving out the work "freestyle"
makes sense to me in that I expect significant differences in the
style of riding.

> I want to see some style in this event, not just a series of tricks. But
> not the full-on style of freestyle, where your music and costume are
> judged.
....
> 1. Freestyle is not "bad." Don't know why you guys don't like it.

I'm not big on costumes and showy choreography. That's not to say I
lack appreciation of Freestyle competitions, but I don't feel
personally drawn to them. Consider differences in style between ice
skating competitions and gymnastics. Skating is more highly stylized,
where in gymnastics the focus is on executing skills (though they are
still linked in graceful routines). I don't dislike ice skating, but
I don't go out of my way to watch it as I do with gymnastics. I see
street as being closer to the feel of gymnastics if you follow the
analogy.

Anyway, I think you are right on track to set up a great new event.
Thanks for working hard to include a new style of riding in organized
unicycling events.

Ken

[danger_uni]

I think we agree that the fundamental distinction of street riding as a
sport is that obstacles are used to set up moves. The moves are the
point, not just getting over an obstacle. Of course that doesn't answer
the question of how to judge an event.

Until there is a well-developed vocabulary for the different moves, like
there is in skateboarding or BMX, we can talk about it forever on this
forum and not really get very far in terms of the details of competition
rules. The only real solution I think is for someone to organize an
informal event where street riders can get together and, through actual
riding, work this out. It also wouldn't hurt to visit a few BMX comps
and see how they do it too.

As far as the "street" versus "street freestyle" names are concerned, I
think that's basically irrelevant. Street BMX was called Street
Freestyle BMX before it got shortened to Street; the same thing is
happening here.

Kris


--
danger_uni - Kris Holm
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[danger_uni]

I think we agree that the fundamental distinction of street riding as a
sport is that obstacles are used to set up moves. The moves are the
point, not just getting over an obstacle. Of course that doesn't answer
the question of how to judge an event.

Until there is a well-developed vocabulary for the different moves, like
there is in skateboarding or BMX, we can talk about it forever on this
forum and not really get very far in terms of the details of competition
rules. The only real solution I think is for someone to organize an
informal event where street riders can get together and, through actual
riding, work this out. It also wouldn't hurt to visit a few BMX comps
and see how they do it too.

As far as the "street" versus "street freestyle" names are concerned, I
think that's basically irrelevant. Street BMX was called Street
Freestyle BMX before it got shortened to Street; the same thing is
happening here.

Kris


--
danger_uni - Kris Holm
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[danger_uni]

I think we agree that the fundamental distinction of street riding as a
sport is that obstacles are used to set up moves. The moves are the
point, not just getting over an obstacle. Of course that doesn't answer
the question of how to judge an event.

Until there is a well-developed vocabulary for the different moves, like
there is in skateboarding or BMX, we can talk about it forever on this
forum and not really get very far in terms of the details of competition
rules. The only real solution I think is for someone to organize an
informal event where street riders can get together and, through actual
riding, work this out. It also wouldn't hurt to visit a few BMX comps
and see how they do it too.

As far as the "street" versus "street freestyle" names are concerned, I
think that's basically irrelevant. Street BMX was called Street
Freestyle BMX before it got shortened to Street; the same thing is
happening here.

Kris


--
danger_uni - Kris Holm
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[danger_uni]

I think we agree that the fundamental distinction of street riding as a
sport is that obstacles are used to set up moves. The moves are the
point, not just getting over an obstacle. Of course that doesn't answer
the question of how to judge an event.

Until there is a well-developed vocabulary for the different moves, like
there is in skateboarding or BMX, we can talk about it forever on this
forum and not really get very far in terms of the details of competition
rules. The only real solution I think is for someone to organize an
informal event where street riders can get together and, through actual
riding, work this out. It also wouldn't hurt to visit a few BMX comps
and see how they do it too.

As far as the "street" versus "street freestyle" names are concerned, I
think that's basically irrelevant. Street BMX was called Street
Freestyle BMX before it got shortened to Street; the same thing is
happening here.

Kris


--
danger_uni - Kris Holm
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[leo]

danger_uni wrote:
> As far as the "street" versus "street freestyle" names are concerned,
> I think that's basically irrelevant. Street BMX was called Street
> Freestyle BMX before it got shortened to Street; the same thing is
> happening here.

....unless this street is replacing "flatland" freestyle:
John Foss wrote:
> 5. Difficulty judging would look for a certain minimum amount of
> obstacle skills. Doing only obstacle skills would probably be okay,
> but doing only flatland skills would reduce the score.



--
leo - errorist

Leo Vandewoestijne [-lay?oh! fun-duh-wwho-styne-uhh-]
866-UNI-CYCL
'unicycle.net' (http://www.unicycle.net/) (about me)
'unicyclist.org' (http://unicyclist.org/) (for all unicyclists and
alike)

Dutch radio reporter Jaques Chapel in Athens, checking an ISDN line
before an Olympic radio broadcast while getting used to security
measures: "and suddenly I have a soldier pointing a machine gun in my
back. So, I talk English, he shouts Greek. So what do you do? Just
ignore him and finish the job".
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[leo]

danger_uni wrote:
> As far as the "street" versus "street freestyle" names are concerned,
> I think that's basically irrelevant. Street BMX was called Street
> Freestyle BMX before it got shortened to Street; the same thing is
> happening here.

....unless this street is replacing "flatland" freestyle:
John Foss wrote:
> 5. Difficulty judging would look for a certain minimum amount of
> obstacle skills. Doing only obstacle skills would probably be okay,
> but doing only flatland skills would reduce the score.



--
leo - errorist

Leo Vandewoestijne [-lay?oh! fun-duh-wwho-styne-uhh-]
866-UNI-CYCL
'unicycle.net' (http://www.unicycle.net/) (about me)
'unicyclist.org' (http://unicyclist.org/) (for all unicyclists and
alike)

Dutch radio reporter Jaques Chapel in Athens, checking an ISDN line
before an Olympic radio broadcast while getting used to security
measures: "and suddenly I have a soldier pointing a machine gun in my
back. So, I talk English, he shouts Greek. So what do you do? Just
ignore him and finish the job".
------------------------------------------------------------------------
leo's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/224
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[leo]

danger_uni wrote:
> As far as the "street" versus "street freestyle" names are concerned,
> I think that's basically irrelevant. Street BMX was called Street
> Freestyle BMX before it got shortened to Street; the same thing is
> happening here.

....unless this street is replacing "flatland" freestyle:
John Foss wrote:
> 5. Difficulty judging would look for a certain minimum amount of
> obstacle skills. Doing only obstacle skills would probably be okay,
> but doing only flatland skills would reduce the score.



--
leo - errorist

Leo Vandewoestijne [-lay?oh! fun-duh-wwho-styne-uhh-]
866-UNI-CYCL
'unicycle.net' (http://www.unicycle.net/) (about me)
'unicyclist.org' (http://unicyclist.org/) (for all unicyclists and
alike)

Dutch radio reporter Jaques Chapel in Athens, checking an ISDN line
before an Olympic radio broadcast while getting used to security
measures: "and suddenly I have a soldier pointing a machine gun in my
back. So, I talk English, he shouts Greek. So what do you do? Just
ignore him and finish the job".
------------------------------------------------------------------------
leo's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/224
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[leo]

danger_uni wrote:
> As far as the "street" versus "street freestyle" names are concerned,
> I think that's basically irrelevant. Street BMX was called Street
> Freestyle BMX before it got shortened to Street; the same thing is
> happening here.

....unless this street is replacing "flatland" freestyle:
John Foss wrote:
> 5. Difficulty judging would look for a certain minimum amount of
> obstacle skills. Doing only obstacle skills would probably be okay,
> but doing only flatland skills would reduce the score.



--
leo - errorist

Leo Vandewoestijne [-lay?oh! fun-duh-wwho-styne-uhh-]
866-UNI-CYCL
'unicycle.net' (http://www.unicycle.net/) (about me)
'unicyclist.org' (http://unicyclist.org/) (for all unicyclists and
alike)

Dutch radio reporter Jaques Chapel in Athens, checking an ISDN line
before an Olympic radio broadcast while getting used to security
measures: "and suddenly I have a soldier pointing a machine gun in my
back. So, I talk English, he shouts Greek. So what do you do? Just
ignore him and finish the job".
------------------------------------------------------------------------
leo's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/224
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[Robbie]

PopeSamXVI wrote:
> *There's a lot of talk about it just being called Street. The idea
> isn't to have a street competition, it's to mix street and
> freestyle.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong. *


The point is Street already contains freestyle moves, people just
implement them into other tricks which use obstacles. There is
absolutely no need to have Freestyle on it, so I say we MUST drop the
Freestyle part. I don't say this because I think Freestyle is bad. I
enjoy freestyle, respect freestyle riders, and really enjoy doing it
myself. I just don't think it's right to include Freestyle in the name,
Street is it's own style and should be given it's own name separate from
other styles... so I vote on:

S::TREET::

You wouldn't ever call something a Trials Freestyle competition, just
because in Trials they hop which can initially be a Freestyle move.


--
Robbie - Street Unicyclist

[image: http://gallery.unicyclist.com/albums/greeny23-900/dr_z.gif]
Greeny23
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[Robbie]

PopeSamXVI wrote:
> *There's a lot of talk about it just being called Street. The idea
> isn't to have a street competition, it's to mix street and
> freestyle.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong. *


The point is Street already contains freestyle moves, people just
implement them into other tricks which use obstacles. There is
absolutely no need to have Freestyle on it, so I say we MUST drop the
Freestyle part. I don't say this because I think Freestyle is bad. I
enjoy freestyle, respect freestyle riders, and really enjoy doing it
myself. I just don't think it's right to include Freestyle in the name,
Street is it's own style and should be given it's own name separate from
other styles... so I vote on:

S::TREET::

You wouldn't ever call something a Trials Freestyle competition, just
because in Trials they hop which can initially be a Freestyle move.


--
Robbie - Street Unicyclist

[image: http://gallery.unicyclist.com/albums/greeny23-900/dr_z.gif]
Greeny23
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[Robbie]

PopeSamXVI wrote:
> *There's a lot of talk about it just being called Street. The idea
> isn't to have a street competition, it's to mix street and
> freestyle.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong. *


The point is Street already contains freestyle moves, people just
implement them into other tricks which use obstacles. There is
absolutely no need to have Freestyle on it, so I say we MUST drop the
Freestyle part. I don't say this because I think Freestyle is bad. I
enjoy freestyle, respect freestyle riders, and really enjoy doing it
myself. I just don't think it's right to include Freestyle in the name,
Street is it's own style and should be given it's own name separate from
other styles... so I vote on:

S::TREET::

You wouldn't ever call something a Trials Freestyle competition, just
because in Trials they hop which can initially be a Freestyle move.


--
Robbie - Street Unicyclist

[image: http://gallery.unicyclist.com/albums/greeny23-900/dr_z.gif]
Greeny23
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34600

[Robbie]

PopeSamXVI wrote:
> *There's a lot of talk about it just being called Street. The idea
> isn't to have a street competition, it's to mix street and
> freestyle.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong. *


The point is Street already contains freestyle moves, people just
implement them into other tricks which use obstacles. There is
absolutely no need to have Freestyle on it, so I say we MUST drop the
Freestyle part. I don't say this because I think Freestyle is bad. I
enjoy freestyle, respect freestyle riders, and really enjoy doing it
myself. I just don't think it's right to include Freestyle in the name,
Street is it's own style and should be given it's own name separate from
other styles... so I vote on:

S::TREET::

You wouldn't ever call something a Trials Freestyle competition, just
because in Trials they hop which can initially be a Freestyle move.


--
Robbie - Street Unicyclist

[image: http://gallery.unicyclist.com/albums/greeny23-900/dr_z.gif]
Greeny23
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[leo]

What about making an opening in standard for executing an amount of
unlisted skills? That way there still is a event for
"flatland-freestyle" riders.

In combination with a bi-anual expanding of the standard skill list it
would benefit the variety of riding skills. It will stimulate technical
development of riding.
Adventually the artistical part can be swopped over to the standard
competition as well.

Any opinions/feelings?


--
leo - errorist

Leo Vandewoestijne [-lay?oh! fun-duh-wwho-styne-uhh-]
866-UNI-CYCL
'unicycle.net' (http://www.unicycle.net/) (about me)
'unicyclist.org' (http://unicyclist.org/) (for all unicyclists and
alike)
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