New LX prices

[Pistof]

Expensive stuff. I don't know how Shimano can justify these prices.

Some prices from Jenson:

f. der. 31
r. der. 57
cassette 49
the new LX cranks is $162 and it's 100 grams heavier than last year's!
sti shifters/levers 217
hubs 30 ea.

For LX quality stuff, these prices seem over the top.

[Zog The Undeniable]

Pistof wrote:

> For LX quality stuff, these prices seem over the top.

Yes, but people will still buy it. People buy XTR, and the
price/performance ratio for that group is so ludicrous that it can't be
justified unless you're spending someone else's cash.

[Zog The Undeniable]

Pistof wrote:

> For LX quality stuff, these prices seem over the top.

Yes, but people will still buy it. People buy XTR, and the
price/performance ratio for that group is so ludicrous that it can't be
justified unless you're spending someone else's cash.

[Matt O'Toole]

Pistof wrote:

> Expensive stuff. I don't know how Shimano can justify these prices.
>
> Some prices from Jenson:
>
> f. der. 31
> r. der. 57
> cassette 49
> the new LX cranks is $162 and it's 100 grams heavier than last year's!
> sti shifters/levers 217
> hubs 30 ea.
>
> For LX quality stuff, these prices seem over the top.

Like with cars, they move it upmarket with each new iteration. Also like cars,
the new LX stuff is more bloated looking, to make it look bigger, so you think
you're getting more for your money, and/or to justify the higher price. Note:
a Honda Civic is now bigger than an Accord used to be.

Matt O.

[Matt O'Toole]

Pistof wrote:

> Expensive stuff. I don't know how Shimano can justify these prices.
>
> Some prices from Jenson:
>
> f. der. 31
> r. der. 57
> cassette 49
> the new LX cranks is $162 and it's 100 grams heavier than last year's!
> sti shifters/levers 217
> hubs 30 ea.
>
> For LX quality stuff, these prices seem over the top.

Like with cars, they move it upmarket with each new iteration. Also like cars,
the new LX stuff is more bloated looking, to make it look bigger, so you think
you're getting more for your money, and/or to justify the higher price. Note:
a Honda Civic is now bigger than an Accord used to be.

Matt O.

[tcmedara]

Pistof > wrote:
> Expensive stuff. I don't know how Shimano can justify these prices.
>
> Some prices from Jenson:
>
> f. der. 31
> r. der. 57
> cassette 49
> the new LX cranks is $162 and it's 100 grams heavier than last year's!
> sti shifters/levers 217
> hubs 30 ea.
>
> For LX quality stuff, these prices seem over the top.

Does that 100g account for the integrated bottom bracket? Compared to the
new XT, this is actually cheaper than I figgered it would be. I anticipated
these coming in around $200. I've been pondering new cranks for a few
months now. I might just have to take the plunge on these.

Tom

[tcmedara]

Pistof > wrote:
> Expensive stuff. I don't know how Shimano can justify these prices.
>
> Some prices from Jenson:
>
> f. der. 31
> r. der. 57
> cassette 49
> the new LX cranks is $162 and it's 100 grams heavier than last year's!
> sti shifters/levers 217
> hubs 30 ea.
>
> For LX quality stuff, these prices seem over the top.

Does that 100g account for the integrated bottom bracket? Compared to the
new XT, this is actually cheaper than I figgered it would be. I anticipated
these coming in around $200. I've been pondering new cranks for a few
months now. I might just have to take the plunge on these.

Tom

[Ronsonic]

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 17:47:01 +0100, Zog The Undeniable >
wrote:

>Pistof wrote:
>
>> For LX quality stuff, these prices seem over the top.
>
>Yes, but people will still buy it. People buy XTR, and the
>price/performance ratio for that group is so ludicrous that it can't be
>justified unless you're spending someone else's cash.

What is the best bang for the buck price point out there right now. Bike for
general around town carom with occasional dirt.

Ron

[Ronsonic]

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 17:47:01 +0100, Zog The Undeniable >
wrote:

>Pistof wrote:
>
>> For LX quality stuff, these prices seem over the top.
>
>Yes, but people will still buy it. People buy XTR, and the
>price/performance ratio for that group is so ludicrous that it can't be
>justified unless you're spending someone else's cash.

What is the best bang for the buck price point out there right now. Bike for
general around town carom with occasional dirt.

Ron

[A Muzi]

Pistof wrote:
> Expensive stuff. I don't know how Shimano can justify these prices.
> Some prices from Jenson:
> f. der. 31
> r. der. 57
> cassette 49
> the new LX cranks is $162 and it's 100 grams heavier than last year's!
> sti shifters/levers 217
> hubs 30 ea.
> For LX quality stuff, these prices seem over the top.

It is worth what people will pay for it.

In a world where you can get a better crank for $69 and a
better BB for $24, who cares? Oh, try changing the gearing
on that overpriced LX turd some day. (It's a four-bolt
abomination)

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[A Muzi]

Pistof wrote:
> Expensive stuff. I don't know how Shimano can justify these prices.
> Some prices from Jenson:
> f. der. 31
> r. der. 57
> cassette 49
> the new LX cranks is $162 and it's 100 grams heavier than last year's!
> sti shifters/levers 217
> hubs 30 ea.
> For LX quality stuff, these prices seem over the top.

It is worth what people will pay for it.

In a world where you can get a better crank for $69 and a
better BB for $24, who cares? Oh, try changing the gearing
on that overpriced LX turd some day. (It's a four-bolt
abomination)

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

ron-<< What is the best bang for the buck price point out there right now. Bike
for
general around town carom with occasional dirt >><BR><BR>

Sram....

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

ron-<< What is the best bang for the buck price point out there right now. Bike
for
general around town carom with occasional dirt >><BR><BR>

Sram....

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Andy-<< Oh, try changing the gearing
on that overpriced LX turd some day. (It's a four-bolt
abomination) >><BR><BR>

Good Andy, I like it!!!

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Andy-<< Oh, try changing the gearing
on that overpriced LX turd some day. (It's a four-bolt
abomination) >><BR><BR>

Good Andy, I like it!!!

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

[Pistof]

"tcmedara" > wrote in message
news:fyiad.1567$lp6.1234@okepread01...
> Pistof > wrote:
> > Expensive stuff. I don't know how Shimano can justify these prices.
> >
> > Some prices from Jenson:
> >
> > f. der. 31
> > r. der. 57
> > cassette 49
> > the new LX cranks is $162 and it's 100 grams heavier than last year's!
> > sti shifters/levers 217
> > hubs 30 ea.
> >
> > For LX quality stuff, these prices seem over the top.
>
> Does that 100g account for the integrated bottom bracket? Compared to the
> new XT, this is actually cheaper than I figgered it would be. I
anticipated
> these coming in around $200. I've been pondering new cranks for a few
> months now. I might just have to take the plunge on these.

Yes, Sir, that's with the bottom bracket. Without, it'd be much, much
lighter.

If you want to try these cranks ASAP there is some fellow who is appearantly
stripping parts off his bike inventory to dump on eBay ... I guess:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7106755198
I saw he even had a Specialized Brain for sale. I've never seen one of
these forsale with out a frame.

Also, I just saw the price for the new Ultegra group in Colorado Cyclist.
Ouch, Ouch , Ouch. It's so expensive that one might as well treat
themselves to the Dura-Ace since it'll cost you just a few hundred more.
Cycle with the happiness of knowing that the little metal pieces under you
are the same ones that Lance Armstong has under him. Bicycles were never
meant to cost so much. We westerners are a bunch of spoiled rotten babies.
God I love capitalism.

So, If I may be so bold..., how is your mushroom, Tom? Content in its
forest, frolicking with the bunnies and what not? I trust no ill side
effects, psychological or otherwise, after being under the knife? Inquiring
minds want to know. Last update I saw had you in quite a bit of discomfort
and unable to spin your cranks. I must assume that shopping for new ones
equals everything being A-OK.

Dave

[Pistof]

"tcmedara" > wrote in message
news:fyiad.1567$lp6.1234@okepread01...
> Pistof > wrote:
> > Expensive stuff. I don't know how Shimano can justify these prices.
> >
> > Some prices from Jenson:
> >
> > f. der. 31
> > r. der. 57
> > cassette 49
> > the new LX cranks is $162 and it's 100 grams heavier than last year's!
> > sti shifters/levers 217
> > hubs 30 ea.
> >
> > For LX quality stuff, these prices seem over the top.
>
> Does that 100g account for the integrated bottom bracket? Compared to the
> new XT, this is actually cheaper than I figgered it would be. I
anticipated
> these coming in around $200. I've been pondering new cranks for a few
> months now. I might just have to take the plunge on these.

Yes, Sir, that's with the bottom bracket. Without, it'd be much, much
lighter.

If you want to try these cranks ASAP there is some fellow who is appearantly
stripping parts off his bike inventory to dump on eBay ... I guess:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7106755198
I saw he even had a Specialized Brain for sale. I've never seen one of
these forsale with out a frame.

Also, I just saw the price for the new Ultegra group in Colorado Cyclist.
Ouch, Ouch , Ouch. It's so expensive that one might as well treat
themselves to the Dura-Ace since it'll cost you just a few hundred more.
Cycle with the happiness of knowing that the little metal pieces under you
are the same ones that Lance Armstong has under him. Bicycles were never
meant to cost so much. We westerners are a bunch of spoiled rotten babies.
God I love capitalism.

So, If I may be so bold..., how is your mushroom, Tom? Content in its
forest, frolicking with the bunnies and what not? I trust no ill side
effects, psychological or otherwise, after being under the knife? Inquiring
minds want to know. Last update I saw had you in quite a bit of discomfort
and unable to spin your cranks. I must assume that shopping for new ones
equals everything being A-OK.

Dave

[tcmedara]

Pistof > wrote:
>
> Yes, Sir, that's with the bottom bracket. Without, it'd be much, much
> lighter.
>
> If you want to try these cranks ASAP there is some fellow who is
> appearantly stripping parts off his bike inventory to dump on eBay
> ... I guess:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7106755198
> I saw he even had a Specialized Brain for sale. I've never seen one
> of these forsale with out a frame.
>
> Also, I just saw the price for the new Ultegra group in Colorado
> Cyclist. Ouch, Ouch , Ouch. It's so expensive that one might as well
> treat themselves to the Dura-Ace since it'll cost you just a few
> hundred more. Cycle with the happiness of knowing that the little
> metal pieces under you are the same ones that Lance Armstong has
> under him. Bicycles were never meant to cost so much. We westerners
> are a bunch of spoiled rotten babies. God I love capitalism.
>
> So, If I may be so bold..., how is your mushroom, Tom? Content in its
> forest, frolicking with the bunnies and what not? I trust no ill
> side effects, psychological or otherwise, after being under the
> knife? Inquiring minds want to know. Last update I saw had you in
> quite a bit of discomfort and unable to spin your cranks. I must
> assume that shopping for new ones equals everything being A-OK.
>
> Dave

Thankfully all is well with the flora and fauna. No ill effects, cycling or
otherwise except for a few days out of the the, er, saddle.

I gotta concur that prices are getting just plain stupid, though. I can't
imagine the price increases are matched by similar increases in performance,
durability, efficiency, or any other measure of value. That said, the LX
prices are the cheapest of the bunch for the new integrated BB style from
either Shimano or RF. Everything else I've seen has been hovering around
$250-260 range.

$150 is about what I was expecting to pay for a new crankset anyway, so the
new stuff falls in my original budget window. I just wonder if the
"improved" LX is really much of a step up, or would I be paying more for a
step down from a set of RF. I'll probably hold off a bit and see what
comments pop up.

Noticed the ebay ad was for the M581 with a 48-36-26 vice M580. I wonder if
there's any difference other than the chainrings themselves. I didn't see a
frame on the site, so I wonder what the guy pulled it from. Location in
Singapore...hmm, I'll pass.

Tom

[tcmedara]

Pistof > wrote:
>
> Yes, Sir, that's with the bottom bracket. Without, it'd be much, much
> lighter.
>
> If you want to try these cranks ASAP there is some fellow who is
> appearantly stripping parts off his bike inventory to dump on eBay
> ... I guess:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7106755198
> I saw he even had a Specialized Brain for sale. I've never seen one
> of these forsale with out a frame.
>
> Also, I just saw the price for the new Ultegra group in Colorado
> Cyclist. Ouch, Ouch , Ouch. It's so expensive that one might as well
> treat themselves to the Dura-Ace since it'll cost you just a few
> hundred more. Cycle with the happiness of knowing that the little
> metal pieces under you are the same ones that Lance Armstong has
> under him. Bicycles were never meant to cost so much. We westerners
> are a bunch of spoiled rotten babies. God I love capitalism.
>
> So, If I may be so bold..., how is your mushroom, Tom? Content in its
> forest, frolicking with the bunnies and what not? I trust no ill
> side effects, psychological or otherwise, after being under the
> knife? Inquiring minds want to know. Last update I saw had you in
> quite a bit of discomfort and unable to spin your cranks. I must
> assume that shopping for new ones equals everything being A-OK.
>
> Dave

Thankfully all is well with the flora and fauna. No ill effects, cycling or
otherwise except for a few days out of the the, er, saddle.

I gotta concur that prices are getting just plain stupid, though. I can't
imagine the price increases are matched by similar increases in performance,
durability, efficiency, or any other measure of value. That said, the LX
prices are the cheapest of the bunch for the new integrated BB style from
either Shimano or RF. Everything else I've seen has been hovering around
$250-260 range.

$150 is about what I was expecting to pay for a new crankset anyway, so the
new stuff falls in my original budget window. I just wonder if the
"improved" LX is really much of a step up, or would I be paying more for a
step down from a set of RF. I'll probably hold off a bit and see what
comments pop up.

Noticed the ebay ad was for the M581 with a 48-36-26 vice M580. I wonder if
there's any difference other than the chainrings themselves. I didn't see a
frame on the site, so I wonder what the guy pulled it from. Location in
Singapore...hmm, I'll pass.

Tom

[Basjan]

"A Muzi" > wrote in message
...

> In a world where you can get a better crank for $69 and a better BB for
> $24, who cares? Oh, try changing the gearing on that overpriced LX turd
> some day. (It's a four-bolt abomination)

Just out of ignorance, why is a four-bolt pattern bad? Too few chainring
options, faster wear?

I am just curious, it might help me choose better in the future.

Basjan

[Basjan]

"A Muzi" > wrote in message
...

> In a world where you can get a better crank for $69 and a better BB for
> $24, who cares? Oh, try changing the gearing on that overpriced LX turd
> some day. (It's a four-bolt abomination)

Just out of ignorance, why is a four-bolt pattern bad? Too few chainring
options, faster wear?

I am just curious, it might help me choose better in the future.

Basjan

[gwhite]

A Muzi wrote:
>
> Pistof wrote:
> > Expensive stuff. I don't know how Shimano can justify these prices....
> > For LX quality stuff, these prices seem over the top.
>
> It is worth what people will pay for it.


Have you put implants into my brain?

[gwhite]

A Muzi wrote:
>
> Pistof wrote:
> > Expensive stuff. I don't know how Shimano can justify these prices....
> > For LX quality stuff, these prices seem over the top.
>
> It is worth what people will pay for it.


Have you put implants into my brain?

[gwhite]

Pistof wrote:
>

> Also, I just saw the price for the new Ultegra group in Colorado Cyclist.
> Ouch, Ouch , Ouch. It's so expensive that one might as well treat
> themselves to the Dura-Ace since it'll cost you just a few hundred more.

This is amusing. In one sentence you say "go to the top," and in the next you
say how there is something "wrong" with doing so.

> Bicycles were never
> meant to cost so much.

There is no "meaning" intended in the pricing other than the price, so the
statement is.... meaningless. There is no "right price" except the one the
buyer and seller agree on. Obviously there is a huge range of prices and that
is probably a good thing in some very practical ways.

> We westerners are a bunch of spoiled rotten babies.

Speak for yourself.

> God I love capitalism.

It doesn't matter how you feel about it. It has always existed (although the
name is new) and always will as long as humans are around.

[gwhite]

Pistof wrote:
>

> Also, I just saw the price for the new Ultegra group in Colorado Cyclist.
> Ouch, Ouch , Ouch. It's so expensive that one might as well treat
> themselves to the Dura-Ace since it'll cost you just a few hundred more.

This is amusing. In one sentence you say "go to the top," and in the next you
say how there is something "wrong" with doing so.

> Bicycles were never
> meant to cost so much.

There is no "meaning" intended in the pricing other than the price, so the
statement is.... meaningless. There is no "right price" except the one the
buyer and seller agree on. Obviously there is a huge range of prices and that
is probably a good thing in some very practical ways.

> We westerners are a bunch of spoiled rotten babies.

Speak for yourself.

> God I love capitalism.

It doesn't matter how you feel about it. It has always existed (although the
name is new) and always will as long as humans are around.

[Pistof]

"gwhite" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Pistof wrote:
> >
>
> > Also, I just saw the price for the new Ultegra group in Colorado
Cyclist.
> > Ouch, Ouch , Ouch. It's so expensive that one might as well treat
> > themselves to the Dura-Ace since it'll cost you just a few hundred more.
>
> This is amusing. In one sentence you say "go to the top," and in the next
you
> say how there is something "wrong" with doing so.

Dude, what are you a tax preparer or something?

> > Bicycles were never
> > meant to cost so much.
>
> There is no "meaning" intended in the pricing other than the price, so the
> statement is.... meaningless. There is no "right price" except the one
the
> buyer and seller agree on. Obviously there is a huge range of prices and
that
> is probably a good thing in some very practical ways.
>
> > We westerners are a bunch of spoiled rotten babies.
>
> Speak for yourself.
>
> > God I love capitalism.
>
> It doesn't matter how you feel about it. It has always existed (although
the
> name is new) and always will as long as humans are around.

Hey, White, let me spell it out for you.

I L-O-V-E C-A-P-I-T-A-L-I-S-M !!!


Dave

[Pistof]

"gwhite" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Pistof wrote:
> >
>
> > Also, I just saw the price for the new Ultegra group in Colorado
Cyclist.
> > Ouch, Ouch , Ouch. It's so expensive that one might as well treat
> > themselves to the Dura-Ace since it'll cost you just a few hundred more.
>
> This is amusing. In one sentence you say "go to the top," and in the next
you
> say how there is something "wrong" with doing so.

Dude, what are you a tax preparer or something?

> > Bicycles were never
> > meant to cost so much.
>
> There is no "meaning" intended in the pricing other than the price, so the
> statement is.... meaningless. There is no "right price" except the one
the
> buyer and seller agree on. Obviously there is a huge range of prices and
that
> is probably a good thing in some very practical ways.
>
> > We westerners are a bunch of spoiled rotten babies.
>
> Speak for yourself.
>
> > God I love capitalism.
>
> It doesn't matter how you feel about it. It has always existed (although
the
> name is new) and always will as long as humans are around.

Hey, White, let me spell it out for you.

I L-O-V-E C-A-P-I-T-A-L-I-S-M !!!


Dave

[David Damerell]

Pistof > wrote:
>"gwhite" > wrote in message
[gwhite's usual nonsense]
>Dude, what are you a tax preparer or something?

He's a rabid free-marketeer. Prices are a result of the sacred market, and
hence cannot be criticised. It's like giving the Pope a wedgie.
--
David Damerell > Distortion Field!

[David Damerell]

Pistof > wrote:
>"gwhite" > wrote in message
[gwhite's usual nonsense]
>Dude, what are you a tax preparer or something?

He's a rabid free-marketeer. Prices are a result of the sacred market, and
hence cannot be criticised. It's like giving the Pope a wedgie.
--
David Damerell > Distortion Field!

[gwhite]

David Damerell wrote:
>
> Pistof > wrote:
> >"gwhite" > wrote in message
> [gwhite's usual nonsense]
> >Dude, what are you a tax preparer or something?
>
> He's a rabid free-marketeer. Prices are a result of the sacred market, and
> hence cannot be criticised. It's like giving the Pope a wedgie.


LOL. For you we'll start with 2+2.

[gwhite]

David Damerell wrote:
>
> Pistof > wrote:
> >"gwhite" > wrote in message
> [gwhite's usual nonsense]
> >Dude, what are you a tax preparer or something?
>
> He's a rabid free-marketeer. Prices are a result of the sacred market, and
> hence cannot be criticised. It's like giving the Pope a wedgie.


LOL. For you we'll start with 2+2.