Info on new "comfort" road bikes

[Alan Acock]

The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of the carbon
fiber frame to soak up road buzz. Klein and Trek have/will have a road bike
with an elastomer on the rear stem to soak up vibration and small bumps.
Other brands are doing the same thing. These bikes seem to run from $1500
to $4000. What do we know about these? How effective are they or will they
be. Chip seal has taken some of the fun of riding out of my life and
reducing the constant buzz would be a good thing. I don't want to spend
$2000 plus only to be disappointed,however.
Alan Acock

[Dan Daniel]

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:54:12 -0500, Alan Acock >
wrote:

>The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of the carbon
>fiber frame to soak up road buzz. Klein and Trek have/will have a road bike
>with an elastomer on the rear stem to soak up vibration and small bumps.
>Other brands are doing the same thing. These bikes seem to run from $1500
>to $4000. What do we know about these? How effective are they or will they
>be. Chip seal has taken some of the fun of riding out of my life and
>reducing the constant buzz would be a good thing. I don't want to spend
>$2000 plus only to be disappointed,however.
>Alan Acock

Try some 28mm tires? Hmmm... $60 and maybe 1/2 pound more versus $2000
and maybe 1/4 pound less.

'Effective' depends on which side of the cash register you are
standing :)

[Dan Daniel]

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:54:12 -0500, Alan Acock >
wrote:

>The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of the carbon
>fiber frame to soak up road buzz. Klein and Trek have/will have a road bike
>with an elastomer on the rear stem to soak up vibration and small bumps.
>Other brands are doing the same thing. These bikes seem to run from $1500
>to $4000. What do we know about these? How effective are they or will they
>be. Chip seal has taken some of the fun of riding out of my life and
>reducing the constant buzz would be a good thing. I don't want to spend
>$2000 plus only to be disappointed,however.
>Alan Acock

Try some 28mm tires? Hmmm... $60 and maybe 1/2 pound more versus $2000
and maybe 1/4 pound less.

'Effective' depends on which side of the cash register you are
standing :)

[PixelPusher]

FWIW, I just bought an '04 Specialized Roubaix 3 weeks ago. It ha
inserts in the carbon forks, seat stays and seat post. Mos
comfortable bike I tested. I tried a Trek 2200, Felt F-60 (my secon
favorite!), a Cannondale (can't remember what it was), and a Giant OC
something... Also checked out the Specialized Sequoia and Allez. Ban
for the buck (and the ride!), the Roubaix was noticably smoother. I di
these test rides in the same warehouse parking lot. It has man
black-top cracks that have been patched. So there are stretches wher
it'll really rattle your teeth at speed. And to be brutally honest
the Trek had the "roughest" ride of them all, and for some reaso
they've gone with a longer stem than any of the other bikes. Made m
feel like I was reaching too far. I knew I could get a shorter stem
but for that price, a perfect fit is what I expect.

The Felt F-60 was a very nice ride, and had a better groupset, but i
was just too "aggressive" a stance for me. I couldn't see myself i
that aggressive a seating position for very long

Cannondale was nice, but way more than I wanted to spend, and I thin
most of that was paying for the name and the best paint job of th
bunch

Giant, Sequoia and Allez, were all gread bikes too. But as I trie
each one, I just had a sort-of "ho hum" nice bike thought. Same fo
the Trek. Now the Roubaix and the Felt....... after the first coupl
of pedals, I'm grinning ear to ear. Those bikes just wanted to "tak
off".... not sure how else to explain it

So far I've put almost 200 miles on the Roubaix and I'm still grinning
Oh, and I got it for less than the other non-Specialized bikes too!
Now if I really had the jack, I would have considered the Roubaix Elit
(all ultegra group) or the Comp. As it is, I'm extremely happy with m
decision

IMHO, you should try the Roubaix, for comparison if nothing else.
actually started out determined I was gonna get a Trek or a Felt. An
kept coming back to the Roubaix because I couldn't believe I actuall
liked the ride better


Alan Acock Wrote:
> The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of th
> carbo
> fiber frame to soak up road buzz. Klein and Trek have/will have a roa
> bik
> with an elastomer on the rear stem to soak up vibration and smal
> bumps
> Other brands are doing the same thing. These bikes seem to run fro
> $150
> to $4000. What do we know about these? How effective are they or wil
> the
> be. Chip seal has taken some of the fun of riding out of my life an
> reducing the constant buzz would be a good thing. I don't want to spen
> $2000 plus only to be disappointed,however
> Alan Acoc

--
PixelPusher

[PixelPusher]

FWIW, I just bought an '04 Specialized Roubaix 3 weeks ago. It ha
inserts in the carbon forks, seat stays and seat post. Mos
comfortable bike I tested. I tried a Trek 2200, Felt F-60 (my secon
favorite!), a Cannondale (can't remember what it was), and a Giant OC
something... Also checked out the Specialized Sequoia and Allez. Ban
for the buck (and the ride!), the Roubaix was noticably smoother. I di
these test rides in the same warehouse parking lot. It has man
black-top cracks that have been patched. So there are stretches wher
it'll really rattle your teeth at speed. And to be brutally honest
the Trek had the "roughest" ride of them all, and for some reaso
they've gone with a longer stem than any of the other bikes. Made m
feel like I was reaching too far. I knew I could get a shorter stem
but for that price, a perfect fit is what I expect.

The Felt F-60 was a very nice ride, and had a better groupset, but i
was just too "aggressive" a stance for me. I couldn't see myself i
that aggressive a seating position for very long

Cannondale was nice, but way more than I wanted to spend, and I thin
most of that was paying for the name and the best paint job of th
bunch

Giant, Sequoia and Allez, were all gread bikes too. But as I trie
each one, I just had a sort-of "ho hum" nice bike thought. Same fo
the Trek. Now the Roubaix and the Felt....... after the first coupl
of pedals, I'm grinning ear to ear. Those bikes just wanted to "tak
off".... not sure how else to explain it

So far I've put almost 200 miles on the Roubaix and I'm still grinning
Oh, and I got it for less than the other non-Specialized bikes too!
Now if I really had the jack, I would have considered the Roubaix Elit
(all ultegra group) or the Comp. As it is, I'm extremely happy with m
decision

IMHO, you should try the Roubaix, for comparison if nothing else.
actually started out determined I was gonna get a Trek or a Felt. An
kept coming back to the Roubaix because I couldn't believe I actuall
liked the ride better


Alan Acock Wrote:
> The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of th
> carbo
> fiber frame to soak up road buzz. Klein and Trek have/will have a roa
> bik
> with an elastomer on the rear stem to soak up vibration and smal
> bumps
> Other brands are doing the same thing. These bikes seem to run fro
> $150
> to $4000. What do we know about these? How effective are they or wil
> the
> be. Chip seal has taken some of the fun of riding out of my life an
> reducing the constant buzz would be a good thing. I don't want to spen
> $2000 plus only to be disappointed,however
> Alan Acoc

--
PixelPusher

[Java Man]

In article >,
says...
> On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:54:12 -0500, Alan Acock >
> wrote:
>
> >The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of the carbon
> >fiber frame to soak up road buzz.
>
> Interesting idea. I wonder if using some sort of rubber or rubber and
> air cushioning between the bike and the road might work even better.
>
It'll never catch on.

;-)

Rick

[Java Man]

In article >,
says...
> On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:54:12 -0500, Alan Acock >
> wrote:
>
> >The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of the carbon
> >fiber frame to soak up road buzz.
>
> Interesting idea. I wonder if using some sort of rubber or rubber and
> air cushioning between the bike and the road might work even better.
>
It'll never catch on.

;-)

Rick

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:54:12 -0500, Alan Acock >
wrote:

>The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of the carbon
>fiber frame to soak up road buzz.

Interesting idea. I wonder if using some sort of rubber or rubber and
air cushioning between the bike and the road might work even better.

Just a thought...

JT

****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:54:12 -0500, Alan Acock >
wrote:

>The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of the carbon
>fiber frame to soak up road buzz.

Interesting idea. I wonder if using some sort of rubber or rubber and
air cushioning between the bike and the road might work even better.

Just a thought...

JT

****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

[Dan Daniel]

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 18:50:56 GMT, Java Man
> wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>> On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:54:12 -0500, Alan Acock >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of the carbon
>> >fiber frame to soak up road buzz.
>>
>> Interesting idea. I wonder if using some sort of rubber or rubber and
>> air cushioning between the bike and the road might work even better.
>>
>It'll never catch on.
>
>;-)
>
>Rick

Maybe if they used carbon? That's a cutting edge material.

[Dan Daniel]

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 18:50:56 GMT, Java Man
> wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>> On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:54:12 -0500, Alan Acock >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of the carbon
>> >fiber frame to soak up road buzz.
>>
>> Interesting idea. I wonder if using some sort of rubber or rubber and
>> air cushioning between the bike and the road might work even better.
>>
>It'll never catch on.
>
>;-)
>
>Rick

Maybe if they used carbon? That's a cutting edge material.

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of the
> carbon
> fiber frame to soak up road buzz. Klein and Trek have/will have a road
> bike
> with an elastomer on the rear stem to soak up vibration and small bumps.
> Other brands are doing the same thing. These bikes seem to run from $1500
> to $4000. What do we know about these? How effective are they or will they
> be. Chip seal has taken some of the fun of riding out of my life and
> reducing the constant buzz would be a good thing. I don't want to spend
> $2000 plus only to be disappointed,however.
> Alan Acock

I can't speak for the Pilot, as I haven't ridden one yet. The Klein I have
gotten some good miles on though, and I seriously think that, if they market
it right, it's a breakthrough product. I did my usual
Tuesday/Thursday-morning ride with one, which includes about 3200 feet of
climbing, some very fast descents, and a variety of pavement, er, styles. I
was very, very impressed. I couldn't find anything to complain about...
climbing, both in the saddle and out, gave no indication of anything that
was robbing power or causing the bike to handle differently. No
"energy-sucking sponge effect", real or imagined.

But my, any sort of bumps and irregularities in the pavement were definitely
reduced in amplitude, in a way that a "compliant" frame, and even larger
tires, seems not to accomplish. In my opinion, this type of design is
probably better than trying to increase the damping of a given material by
adding compounds to the tubes.

I should try and find my initial test report, which was submitted to TREK
for internal purposes, and post it on our website.

By biggest fear of the elastomer "bumper" technology is that they'll bring
it too far downstream (use it on cheaper models) and kill off its
desirability at the high end. In my opinion, high-end bikes stand to
benefit the most from this technology, because you can build a
short-wheelbase high-performance bike, with narrow tires, that is absolutely
a smoother bike to ride (without giving up anything more than 4 ounces, near
as I can tell).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of the
> carbon
> fiber frame to soak up road buzz. Klein and Trek have/will have a road
> bike
> with an elastomer on the rear stem to soak up vibration and small bumps.
> Other brands are doing the same thing. These bikes seem to run from $1500
> to $4000. What do we know about these? How effective are they or will they
> be. Chip seal has taken some of the fun of riding out of my life and
> reducing the constant buzz would be a good thing. I don't want to spend
> $2000 plus only to be disappointed,however.
> Alan Acock

I can't speak for the Pilot, as I haven't ridden one yet. The Klein I have
gotten some good miles on though, and I seriously think that, if they market
it right, it's a breakthrough product. I did my usual
Tuesday/Thursday-morning ride with one, which includes about 3200 feet of
climbing, some very fast descents, and a variety of pavement, er, styles. I
was very, very impressed. I couldn't find anything to complain about...
climbing, both in the saddle and out, gave no indication of anything that
was robbing power or causing the bike to handle differently. No
"energy-sucking sponge effect", real or imagined.

But my, any sort of bumps and irregularities in the pavement were definitely
reduced in amplitude, in a way that a "compliant" frame, and even larger
tires, seems not to accomplish. In my opinion, this type of design is
probably better than trying to increase the damping of a given material by
adding compounds to the tubes.

I should try and find my initial test report, which was submitted to TREK
for internal purposes, and post it on our website.

By biggest fear of the elastomer "bumper" technology is that they'll bring
it too far downstream (use it on cheaper models) and kill off its
desirability at the high end. In my opinion, high-end bikes stand to
benefit the most from this technology, because you can build a
short-wheelbase high-performance bike, with narrow tires, that is absolutely
a smoother bike to ride (without giving up anything more than 4 ounces, near
as I can tell).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

[Ronsonic]

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 10:50:20 -0700, Dan Daniel >
wrote:

>On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:54:12 -0500, Alan Acock >
>wrote:
>
>>The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of the carbon
>>fiber frame to soak up road buzz. Klein and Trek have/will have a road bike
>>with an elastomer on the rear stem to soak up vibration and small bumps.
>>Other brands are doing the same thing. These bikes seem to run from $1500
>>to $4000. What do we know about these? How effective are they or will they
>>be. Chip seal has taken some of the fun of riding out of my life and
>>reducing the constant buzz would be a good thing. I don't want to spend
>>$2000 plus only to be disappointed,however.
>>Alan Acock
>
>Try some 28mm tires? Hmmm... $60 and maybe 1/2 pound more versus $2000
>and maybe 1/4 pound less.

Ya know, the've been building saddles with springs in 'em for about 120 years
now.

>'Effective' depends on which side of the cash register you are
>standing :)

Don't it ever.

Ron

[Ronsonic]

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 10:50:20 -0700, Dan Daniel >
wrote:

>On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:54:12 -0500, Alan Acock >
>wrote:
>
>>The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of the carbon
>>fiber frame to soak up road buzz. Klein and Trek have/will have a road bike
>>with an elastomer on the rear stem to soak up vibration and small bumps.
>>Other brands are doing the same thing. These bikes seem to run from $1500
>>to $4000. What do we know about these? How effective are they or will they
>>be. Chip seal has taken some of the fun of riding out of my life and
>>reducing the constant buzz would be a good thing. I don't want to spend
>>$2000 plus only to be disappointed,however.
>>Alan Acock
>
>Try some 28mm tires? Hmmm... $60 and maybe 1/2 pound more versus $2000
>and maybe 1/4 pound less.

Ya know, the've been building saddles with springs in 'em for about 120 years
now.

>'Effective' depends on which side of the cash register you are
>standing :)

Don't it ever.

Ron

[Dan Daniel]

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 03:49:10 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
> wrote:

>> The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of the
>> carbon
>> fiber frame to soak up road buzz. Klein and Trek have/will have a road
>> bike
>> with an elastomer on the rear stem to soak up vibration and small bumps.
>> Other brands are doing the same thing. These bikes seem to run from $1500
>> to $4000. What do we know about these? How effective are they or will they
>> be. Chip seal has taken some of the fun of riding out of my life and
>> reducing the constant buzz would be a good thing. I don't want to spend
>> $2000 plus only to be disappointed,however.
>> Alan Acock
>
>I can't speak for the Pilot, as I haven't ridden one yet. The Klein I have
>gotten some good miles on though, and I seriously think that, if they market
>it right, it's a breakthrough product. I did my usual
>Tuesday/Thursday-morning ride with one, which includes about 3200 feet of
>climbing, some very fast descents, and a variety of pavement, er, styles. I
>was very, very impressed. I couldn't find anything to complain about...
>climbing, both in the saddle and out, gave no indication of anything that
>was robbing power or causing the bike to handle differently. No
>"energy-sucking sponge effect", real or imagined.
>
>But my, any sort of bumps and irregularities in the pavement were definitely
>reduced in amplitude, in a way that a "compliant" frame, and even larger
>tires, seems not to accomplish. In my opinion, this type of design is
>probably better than trying to increase the damping of a given material by
>adding compounds to the tubes.
>
>I should try and find my initial test report, which was submitted to TREK
>for internal purposes, and post it on our website.
>
>By biggest fear of the elastomer "bumper" technology is that they'll bring
>it too far downstream (use it on cheaper models) and kill off its
>desirability at the high end. In my opinion, high-end bikes stand to
>benefit the most from this technology, because you can build a
>short-wheelbase high-performance bike, with narrow tires, that is absolutely
>a smoother bike to ride (without giving up anything more than 4 ounces, near
>as I can tell).
>
>--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>

Are those fender mounts I see on the Klein Reve??? And 57mm reach
brakes- 'standard' reach? Can you say how big a tire you can fit on
it, front and rear?

Also, best as I can see, it's the same frame throughout the models,
only different groups?

[Dan Daniel]

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 03:49:10 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
> wrote:

>> The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of the
>> carbon
>> fiber frame to soak up road buzz. Klein and Trek have/will have a road
>> bike
>> with an elastomer on the rear stem to soak up vibration and small bumps.
>> Other brands are doing the same thing. These bikes seem to run from $1500
>> to $4000. What do we know about these? How effective are they or will they
>> be. Chip seal has taken some of the fun of riding out of my life and
>> reducing the constant buzz would be a good thing. I don't want to spend
>> $2000 plus only to be disappointed,however.
>> Alan Acock
>
>I can't speak for the Pilot, as I haven't ridden one yet. The Klein I have
>gotten some good miles on though, and I seriously think that, if they market
>it right, it's a breakthrough product. I did my usual
>Tuesday/Thursday-morning ride with one, which includes about 3200 feet of
>climbing, some very fast descents, and a variety of pavement, er, styles. I
>was very, very impressed. I couldn't find anything to complain about...
>climbing, both in the saddle and out, gave no indication of anything that
>was robbing power or causing the bike to handle differently. No
>"energy-sucking sponge effect", real or imagined.
>
>But my, any sort of bumps and irregularities in the pavement were definitely
>reduced in amplitude, in a way that a "compliant" frame, and even larger
>tires, seems not to accomplish. In my opinion, this type of design is
>probably better than trying to increase the damping of a given material by
>adding compounds to the tubes.
>
>I should try and find my initial test report, which was submitted to TREK
>for internal purposes, and post it on our website.
>
>By biggest fear of the elastomer "bumper" technology is that they'll bring
>it too far downstream (use it on cheaper models) and kill off its
>desirability at the high end. In my opinion, high-end bikes stand to
>benefit the most from this technology, because you can build a
>short-wheelbase high-performance bike, with narrow tires, that is absolutely
>a smoother bike to ride (without giving up anything more than 4 ounces, near
>as I can tell).
>
>--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>

Are those fender mounts I see on the Klein Reve??? And 57mm reach
brakes- 'standard' reach? Can you say how big a tire you can fit on
it, front and rear?

Also, best as I can see, it's the same frame throughout the models,
only different groups?

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> Are those fender mounts I see on the Klein Reve??? And 57mm reach
> brakes- 'standard' reach? Can you say how big a tire you can fit on
> it, front and rear?

I haven't tried a really big tire yet, but 28c shouldn't be an issue. And
yes, 57mm brakes (which is why the Campy version of the bike has Shimano
brakes, since Campy doesn't make a long-reach model).

> Also, best as I can see, it's the same frame throughout the models,
> only different groups?

Correct. Any "Reve" bike has the same frame.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Dan Daniel" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 03:49:10 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
> > wrote:
>
>>> The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of the
>>> carbon
>>> fiber frame to soak up road buzz. Klein and Trek have/will have a road
>>> bike
>>> with an elastomer on the rear stem to soak up vibration and small bumps.
>>> Other brands are doing the same thing. These bikes seem to run from
>>> $1500
>>> to $4000. What do we know about these? How effective are they or will
>>> they
>>> be. Chip seal has taken some of the fun of riding out of my life and
>>> reducing the constant buzz would be a good thing. I don't want to spend
>>> $2000 plus only to be disappointed,however.
>>> Alan Acock
>>
>>I can't speak for the Pilot, as I haven't ridden one yet. The Klein I
>>have
>>gotten some good miles on though, and I seriously think that, if they
>>market
>>it right, it's a breakthrough product. I did my usual
>>Tuesday/Thursday-morning ride with one, which includes about 3200 feet of
>>climbing, some very fast descents, and a variety of pavement, er, styles.
>>I
>>was very, very impressed. I couldn't find anything to complain about...
>>climbing, both in the saddle and out, gave no indication of anything that
>>was robbing power or causing the bike to handle differently. No
>>"energy-sucking sponge effect", real or imagined.
>>
>>But my, any sort of bumps and irregularities in the pavement were
>>definitely
>>reduced in amplitude, in a way that a "compliant" frame, and even larger
>>tires, seems not to accomplish. In my opinion, this type of design is
>>probably better than trying to increase the damping of a given material by
>>adding compounds to the tubes.
>>
>>I should try and find my initial test report, which was submitted to TREK
>>for internal purposes, and post it on our website.
>>
>>By biggest fear of the elastomer "bumper" technology is that they'll bring
>>it too far downstream (use it on cheaper models) and kill off its
>>desirability at the high end. In my opinion, high-end bikes stand to
>>benefit the most from this technology, because you can build a
>>short-wheelbase high-performance bike, with narrow tires, that is
>>absolutely
>>a smoother bike to ride (without giving up anything more than 4 ounces,
>>near
>>as I can tell).
>>
>>--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>>www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>>
>
> Are those fender mounts I see on the Klein Reve??? And 57mm reach
> brakes- 'standard' reach? Can you say how big a tire you can fit on
> it, front and rear?
>
> Also, best as I can see, it's the same frame throughout the models,
> only different groups?

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> Are those fender mounts I see on the Klein Reve??? And 57mm reach
> brakes- 'standard' reach? Can you say how big a tire you can fit on
> it, front and rear?

I haven't tried a really big tire yet, but 28c shouldn't be an issue. And
yes, 57mm brakes (which is why the Campy version of the bike has Shimano
brakes, since Campy doesn't make a long-reach model).

> Also, best as I can see, it's the same frame throughout the models,
> only different groups?

Correct. Any "Reve" bike has the same frame.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Dan Daniel" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 03:49:10 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
> > wrote:
>
>>> The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of the
>>> carbon
>>> fiber frame to soak up road buzz. Klein and Trek have/will have a road
>>> bike
>>> with an elastomer on the rear stem to soak up vibration and small bumps.
>>> Other brands are doing the same thing. These bikes seem to run from
>>> $1500
>>> to $4000. What do we know about these? How effective are they or will
>>> they
>>> be. Chip seal has taken some of the fun of riding out of my life and
>>> reducing the constant buzz would be a good thing. I don't want to spend
>>> $2000 plus only to be disappointed,however.
>>> Alan Acock
>>
>>I can't speak for the Pilot, as I haven't ridden one yet. The Klein I
>>have
>>gotten some good miles on though, and I seriously think that, if they
>>market
>>it right, it's a breakthrough product. I did my usual
>>Tuesday/Thursday-morning ride with one, which includes about 3200 feet of
>>climbing, some very fast descents, and a variety of pavement, er, styles.
>>I
>>was very, very impressed. I couldn't find anything to complain about...
>>climbing, both in the saddle and out, gave no indication of anything that
>>was robbing power or causing the bike to handle differently. No
>>"energy-sucking sponge effect", real or imagined.
>>
>>But my, any sort of bumps and irregularities in the pavement were
>>definitely
>>reduced in amplitude, in a way that a "compliant" frame, and even larger
>>tires, seems not to accomplish. In my opinion, this type of design is
>>probably better than trying to increase the damping of a given material by
>>adding compounds to the tubes.
>>
>>I should try and find my initial test report, which was submitted to TREK
>>for internal purposes, and post it on our website.
>>
>>By biggest fear of the elastomer "bumper" technology is that they'll bring
>>it too far downstream (use it on cheaper models) and kill off its
>>desirability at the high end. In my opinion, high-end bikes stand to
>>benefit the most from this technology, because you can build a
>>short-wheelbase high-performance bike, with narrow tires, that is
>>absolutely
>>a smoother bike to ride (without giving up anything more than 4 ounces,
>>near
>>as I can tell).
>>
>>--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>>www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>>
>
> Are those fender mounts I see on the Klein Reve??? And 57mm reach
> brakes- 'standard' reach? Can you say how big a tire you can fit on
> it, front and rear?
>
> Also, best as I can see, it's the same frame throughout the models,
> only different groups?

[Dan Daniel]

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:41:17 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
> wrote:

>> Are those fender mounts I see on the Klein Reve??? And 57mm reach
>> brakes- 'standard' reach? Can you say how big a tire you can fit on
>> it, front and rear?
>
>I haven't tried a really big tire yet, but 28c shouldn't be an issue. And
>yes, 57mm brakes (which is why the Campy version of the bike has Shimano
>brakes, since Campy doesn't make a long-reach model).
>

Can you confirm fender mounts front and rear? The web site photo isn't
clear.

And would it be available as a frame only?

[Dan Daniel]

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:41:17 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
> wrote:

>> Are those fender mounts I see on the Klein Reve??? And 57mm reach
>> brakes- 'standard' reach? Can you say how big a tire you can fit on
>> it, front and rear?
>
>I haven't tried a really big tire yet, but 28c shouldn't be an issue. And
>yes, 57mm brakes (which is why the Campy version of the bike has Shimano
>brakes, since Campy doesn't make a long-reach model).
>

Can you confirm fender mounts front and rear? The web site photo isn't
clear.

And would it be available as a frame only?

[meb]

John Forrest Tomlinson Wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:54:12 -0500, Alan Acock >
> wrote:
>
> >The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of th
> carbon
> >fiber frame to soak up road buzz.
>
> Interesting idea. I wonder if using some sort of rubber or rubber and
> air cushioning between the bike and the road might work even better.
>
> Just a thought...
>
> JT
>
> ****************************
> Remove "remove" to reply
> Visit http://www.jt10000.com
> ****************************

Pantour uses elastomer technology in the hubs as a suspension:

www.pantourhub.com/products.htm

--
meb

[meb]

John Forrest Tomlinson Wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:54:12 -0500, Alan Acock >
> wrote:
>
> >The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of th
> carbon
> >fiber frame to soak up road buzz.
>
> Interesting idea. I wonder if using some sort of rubber or rubber and
> air cushioning between the bike and the road might work even better.
>
> Just a thought...
>
> JT
>
> ****************************
> Remove "remove" to reply
> Visit http://www.jt10000.com
> ****************************

Pantour uses elastomer technology in the hubs as a suspension:

www.pantourhub.com/products.htm

--
meb

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> Can you confirm fender mounts front and rear? The web site photo isn't
> clear.
>
> And would it be available as a frame only?

I'll have to remember at the shop tomorrow. No frames though, just complete
bikes.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> Can you confirm fender mounts front and rear? The web site photo isn't
> clear.
>
> And would it be available as a frame only?

I'll have to remember at the shop tomorrow. No frames though, just complete
bikes.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

[[email protected]]

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:29:49 +1000, meb
> wrote:

>
>John Forrest Tomlinson Wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:54:12 -0500, Alan Acock >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of the
>> carbon
>> >fiber frame to soak up road buzz.
>>
>> Interesting idea. I wonder if using some sort of rubber or rubber and
>> air cushioning between the bike and the road might work even better.
>>
>> Just a thought...
>>
>> JT
>>
>> ****************************
>> Remove "remove" to reply
>> Visit http://www.jt10000.com
>> ****************************
>
>Pantour uses elastomer technology in the hubs as a suspension:
>
>www.pantourhub.com/products.html

Dear Meb,

I peeked at that page, but I didn't see any details of
exactly how those Pantour hubs work.

What's going on inside?

Carl Fogel

[[email protected]]

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:29:49 +1000, meb
> wrote:

>
>John Forrest Tomlinson Wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:54:12 -0500, Alan Acock >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of the
>> carbon
>> >fiber frame to soak up road buzz.
>>
>> Interesting idea. I wonder if using some sort of rubber or rubber and
>> air cushioning between the bike and the road might work even better.
>>
>> Just a thought...
>>
>> JT
>>
>> ****************************
>> Remove "remove" to reply
>> Visit http://www.jt10000.com
>> ****************************
>
>Pantour uses elastomer technology in the hubs as a suspension:
>
>www.pantourhub.com/products.html

Dear Meb,

I peeked at that page, but I didn't see any details of
exactly how those Pantour hubs work.

What's going on inside?

Carl Fogel

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

pixelpusher-<< FWIW, I just bought an '04 Specialized Roubaix 3 weeks ago. It
has
inserts in the carbon forks, seat stays and seat post. Most
comfortable bike I tested. >><BR><BR>

May be but I doubt it's because of tyhose inserts in the carbon sections. They
slid out really easy BTW..may want to glue them in so ya don't loose any.

Too bad the 'fit' was a standover, ride around a parking lot. For the $, you
should have gotten a proper bike fit. Good thing it's working for you tho.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

pixelpusher-<< FWIW, I just bought an '04 Specialized Roubaix 3 weeks ago. It
has
inserts in the carbon forks, seat stays and seat post. Most
comfortable bike I tested. >><BR><BR>

May be but I doubt it's because of tyhose inserts in the carbon sections. They
slid out really easy BTW..may want to glue them in so ya don't loose any.

Too bad the 'fit' was a standover, ride around a parking lot. For the $, you
should have gotten a proper bike fit. Good thing it's working for you tho.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> FWIW, I just bought an '04 Specialized Roubaix 3 weeks ago. It has
> inserts in the carbon forks, seat stays and seat post. Most
> comfortable bike I tested. I tried a Trek 2200, Felt F-60 (my second
> favorite!), a Cannondale (can't remember what it was), and a Giant OCR
> something... Also checked out the Specialized Sequoia and Allez. Bang
> for the buck (and the ride!), the Roubaix was noticably smoother. I did
> these test rides in the same warehouse parking lot. It has many
> black-top cracks that have been patched. So there are stretches where
> it'll really rattle your teeth at speed. And to be brutally honest,
> the Trek had the "roughest" ride of them all, and for some reason
> they've gone with a longer stem than any of the other bikes. Made me
> feel like I was reaching too far. I knew I could get a shorter stem,
> but for that price, a perfect fit is what I expect.

Given that the proper fit is probably *the* most important thing as far as
ride comfort goes, I suspect that the Roubaix may have, by sheer chance,
been set up better for you than the others. It certainly isn't an
indictment of a bike to suggest that it should have come, off the floor,
with a stem representing a "perfect fit." People don't come in just one
size. If anything, it's an indication of a shop not willing to set you up
appropriately for a test ride.

Hopefully the shop you purchased the bike from did more than just a
standover test; even if the bike feels comfortable, it's possible it could
be even more so.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> FWIW, I just bought an '04 Specialized Roubaix 3 weeks ago. It has
> inserts in the carbon forks, seat stays and seat post. Most
> comfortable bike I tested. I tried a Trek 2200, Felt F-60 (my second
> favorite!), a Cannondale (can't remember what it was), and a Giant OCR
> something... Also checked out the Specialized Sequoia and Allez. Bang
> for the buck (and the ride!), the Roubaix was noticably smoother. I did
> these test rides in the same warehouse parking lot. It has many
> black-top cracks that have been patched. So there are stretches where
> it'll really rattle your teeth at speed. And to be brutally honest,
> the Trek had the "roughest" ride of them all, and for some reason
> they've gone with a longer stem than any of the other bikes. Made me
> feel like I was reaching too far. I knew I could get a shorter stem,
> but for that price, a perfect fit is what I expect.

Given that the proper fit is probably *the* most important thing as far as
ride comfort goes, I suspect that the Roubaix may have, by sheer chance,
been set up better for you than the others. It certainly isn't an
indictment of a bike to suggest that it should have come, off the floor,
with a stem representing a "perfect fit." People don't come in just one
size. If anything, it's an indication of a shop not willing to set you up
appropriately for a test ride.

Hopefully the shop you purchased the bike from did more than just a
standover test; even if the bike feels comfortable, it's possible it could
be even more so.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article >,
says...

>The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of the carbon
>fiber frame to soak up road buzz. Klein and Trek have/will have a road bike
>with an elastomer on the rear stem to soak up vibration and small bumps.
>Other brands are doing the same thing. These bikes seem to run from $1500
>to $4000. What do we know about these? How effective are they or will they
>be. Chip seal has taken some of the fun of riding out of my life and
>reducing the constant buzz would be a good thing. I don't want to spend
>$2000 plus only to be disappointed,however.
>Alan Acock

Fatter tires at a lower pressure will be more effective than the gimicks
these companies are selling.
------------
Alex

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article >,
says...

>The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of the carbon
>fiber frame to soak up road buzz. Klein and Trek have/will have a road bike
>with an elastomer on the rear stem to soak up vibration and small bumps.
>Other brands are doing the same thing. These bikes seem to run from $1500
>to $4000. What do we know about these? How effective are they or will they
>be. Chip seal has taken some of the fun of riding out of my life and
>reducing the constant buzz would be a good thing. I don't want to spend
>$2000 plus only to be disappointed,however.
>Alan Acock

Fatter tires at a lower pressure will be more effective than the gimicks
these companies are selling.
------------
Alex

[PixelPusher]

Man,

Whatta rough crowd! :) Just sharing _my_ bike shopping
experience..... and yes, the LBS owner did do a fitting......after test
riding it around the parking lot a half a dozen different times and
deciding I liked it over the other bikes I rode _and_ was definitely
going to buy it. The owner took a bunch of measurements. At first, I
wasn't sure if I was buying a suit or a bike! He also put the bike up
on a Cyclo-Ops (I think)trainer and fitted me to the bike after
reviewing some geometric charts from Specialized. He raised the seat
about a 1/4 inch and moved it back about the same distance and he
fitted the pedals I picked with the shoes, and adjusted the shoe
cleats. I appreciate your concern that I didn't get a "good fit", but
I feel that I did. I didn't think this thread was about "what
fitting came with the price", so I omitted most of these gory details
in my first post. Not to mention I had already written plenty! :)

Regarding the Zertz inserts, you can doubt them all ya want, it's your
prerogative, and I never claimed to be a cycling expert. But I'm here
to tell you, I noticed a significant difference between the Roubaix and
the other bikes I rode. Maybe it wasn't the inserts, or maybe it wasn't
_just_ the inserts... regardless, the Trek was still the roughest riding
of the bunch, Felt was by far the one I like second best, better
groupset components, just too aggressive, sitting up too high and
bending over too far.... I really don't think a complete fitting on any
of these other bikes would have removed any more vibrations, or made the
other bikes feel that much better. IMHO, the Roubaix was clearly the
smoothest and most comfortable, which is why I bought it and tried to
share that in this thread.

I'm trying to understand where your sarcasm and skepticism is coming
from.... maybe its because I said I liked a Specialized bike the best
and not some Italian frame? By the way, you had me going there, so I
searched all of the cycling forums I could find and found _not_ _one_
_single_ _posting_ mentioning a Zertz insert falling out. But to my
pleasant surprise, I did find many reviews from people and magazines
praising it. For your own edification, I recommend you try a google
search for this too...... "Specialized Zertz"..... I would love to know
where you got your information regarding these slippery Zertz inserts
that need glue.

Also sent Specialized a question regarding the potential for their
inserts falling out. We'll see what they have to say.

By the way, have you checked the latest Bicycling Magazine article on
page 62? Looks like several other brands are following the Roubaix
design. :)


Qui si parla Campagnolo Wrote:
> pixelpusher-<< FWIW, I just bought an '04 Specialized Roubaix 3 weeks
> ago. It
> has
> inserts in the carbon forks, seat stays and seat post. Most
> comfortable bike I tested. >><BR><BR>
>
> May be but I doubt it's because of tyhose inserts in the carbon
> sections. They
> slid out really easy BTW..may want to glue them in so ya don't loose
> any.
>
> Too bad the 'fit' was a standover, ride around a parking lot. For the
> $, you
> should have gotten a proper bike fit. Good thing it's working for you
> tho.
>
> Peter Chisholm
> Vecchio's Bicicletteria
> 1833 Pearl St.
> Boulder, CO, 80302
> (303)440-3535
> 'http://www.vecchios.com' (http://www.vecchios.com/)
> "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"


--
PixelPusher

[PixelPusher]

Thanks Mike,

I did get a fitting, and it absolutely did make the bike even more
comfortable. I think the frame geometry and the carbon (with inserts)
made the bike the smoothest for me. I was just trying to convey that
in my last post. I think my main message got lost in too much
rambling.

Anyway, I'm sure none of the bikes I test rode were set up perfectly
for me. Most likely, some might have been worse than others. But I
don't see how a perfect fitting would affect the stiffness, or the
amount of vibrations I felt. Overall riding comfort, absolutely, I see
that. But the jarring sensations? I swear, on that Trek, I thought I
was going to chip a tooth! Totally different experience on the
Specialized bike. I'm no expert, just know what I felt.

BTW, Bicycle Magazine has an interesting article regarding the Roubaix
and how the Trek family is coming out with "comfort road bikes"....
maybe I bought too soon. But I'm still smiling! :)


Mike Jacoubowsky Wrote:
> > FWIW, I just bought an '04 Specialized Roubaix 3 weeks ago. It has
> > inserts in the carbon forks, seat stays and seat post. Most
> > comfortable bike I tested. I tried a Trek 2200, Felt F-60 (my second
> > favorite!), a Cannondale (can't remember what it was), and a Giant
> OCR
> > something... Also checked out the Specialized Sequoia and Allez. Bang
> > for the buck (and the ride!), the Roubaix was noticably smoother. I
> did
> > these test rides in the same warehouse parking lot. It has many
> > black-top cracks that have been patched. So there are stretches where
> > it'll really rattle your teeth at speed. And to be brutally honest,
> > the Trek had the "roughest" ride of them all, and for some reason
> > they've gone with a longer stem than any of the other bikes. Made me
> > feel like I was reaching too far. I knew I could get a shorter stem,
> > but for that price, a perfect fit is what I expect.
>
> Given that the proper fit is probably *the* most important thing as far
> as
> ride comfort goes, I suspect that the Roubaix may have, by sheer
> chance,
> been set up better for you than the others. It certainly isn't an
> indictment of a bike to suggest that it should have come, off the
> floor,
> with a stem representing a "perfect fit." People don't come in just one
> size. If anything, it's an indication of a shop not willing to set you
> up
> appropriately for a test ride.
>
> Hopefully the shop you purchased the bike from did more than just a
> standover test; even if the bike feels comfortable, it's possible it
> could
> be even more so.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> 'www.ChainReactionBicycles.com' (http://www.chainreactionbicycles.com/)


--
PixelPusher

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:38:02 +1000, PixelPusher
> wrote:

>I'm trying to understand where your sarcasm and skepticism is coming
>from.... maybe its because I said I liked a Specialized bike the best
>and not some Italian frame?

I think it's a reaction to unsupported claims, claims that run counter
to logic, or claims that repeat marketingspeak..

JT

****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

[meb]

Wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:29:49 +1000, meb
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >John Forrest Tomlinson Wrote:
> >> On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:54:12 -0500, Alan Acock >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >The Trek Pilot this fall has a rubber compound added to parts of
> the
> >> carbon
> >> >fiber frame to soak up road buzz.
> >>
> >> Interesting idea. I wonder if using some sort of rubber or rubber
> and
> >> air cushioning between the bike and the road might work even
> better.
> >>
> >> Just a thought...
> >>
> >> JT
> >>
> >> ****************************
> >> Remove "remove" to reply
> >> Visit http://www.jt10000.com
> >> ****************************
> >
> >Pantour uses elastomer technology in the hubs as a suspension:
> >
> >www.pantourhub.com/products.html
>
> Dear Meb,
>
> I peeked at that page, but I didn't see any details of
> exactly how those Pantour hubs work.
>
> What's going on inside?
>
> Carl Fogel
Axle slides along a linear track on each side.
Travel distance is ½” or 1” depending upon rim brake vs. disc brake
model.
Track pitch is rotatably adjustable.
Elastomer serves as spring/damper.
Only 4 oz heavier than non-suspension hubs.


--
meb

[PixelPusher]

What are you talking about? Unsupported claims? Now there's a firm
grasp on the obvious! Of course its unsupported, it's my own personal
opinion. Are you looking for some type of statistical analysis from
test rides? Smoother bumps per linear foot? For that matter, your
reply is an unsupported claim, as well as, pretty much every post in
the entire forum. It's a forum after all. Talk about running counter
to logic..... whew!!! BTW, what logic are you even talking about?
Vibration dampening? carbon compounds? Talk about an unsupported
comments. And I didn't repeat any marketingspeak, the thread started
by asking about comfort bikes and I feel that I test rode many very
good bikes over the same rough (and huge) warehouse parking lot. So
much for trying to share my shopping experience. I bought the one I
liked the best, maybe if you put your butt on one before dismissing my
"personal" opinion, you'd at least be able to claim you rode one and
didn't like it, regardless of how unsupported that comment would be.

John Forrest Tomlinson Wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:38:02 +1000, PixelPusher
> > wrote:
>
> >I'm trying to understand where your sarcasm and skepticism is coming
> >from.... maybe its because I said I liked a Specialized bike the best
> >and not some Italian frame?
>
> I think it's a reaction to unsupported claims, claims that run counter
> to logic, or claims that repeat marketingspeak..
>
> JT
>
> ****************************
> Remove "remove" to reply
> Visit 'http://www.jt10000.com' (http://www.jt10000.com/)
> ****************************


--
PixelPusher