quality 8 speed MTB shifters? (or 9 spd shifter with 8 spd cassette)?

[Pizza Man]

Greetings,

I am currently looking to upgrade the entry level integrated
shifter/brakes on my 2005 Trek 4300. I am looking to improve quality
and prefer the ability to select separate shifters and brakes for
maximum options.

I just picked up a set of Avid single digit ti brake levers, so I am
set there. Now that I am shopping for shifters I am having some
difficulties. Virtually all the indexed trigger shifters for sale are
9 spd. I have an 8 spd cassette with Alivio rear derailer. Of the few
8 spd shifters I find available the quality seems to top out with the
Alivo line. I'd prefer to go a bit above that for reliability and
longer life (Deore, Deore LX maybe XT), but don't need high end racing
type gear. Also, not looking for grip shifters.

My questions-

Are there any decent quality trigger type 8 speed shifters currently
available?

Can I buy a 9 speed shifter and just dial in the rear derailer so it
just stops after 8 gears? If so, is this hard on the shifter or rear
dearailer if I accidentally try to shift to that phantom 9th gear?

Thanks, Tracy

[Sheldon Brown]

Pizza Man wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> I am currently looking to upgrade the entry level integrated
> shifter/brakes on my 2005 Trek 4300. I am looking to improve quality
> and prefer the ability to select separate shifters and brakes for
> maximum options.
>
> I just picked up a set of Avid single digit ti brake levers, so I am
> set there. Now that I am shopping for shifters I am having some
> difficulties. Virtually all the indexed trigger shifters for sale are
> 9 spd. I have an 8 spd cassette with Alivio rear derailer. Of the few
> 8 spd shifters I find available the quality seems to top out with the
> Alivo line. I'd prefer to go a bit above that for reliability and
> longer life (Deore, Deore LX maybe XT), but don't need high end racing
> type gear. Also, not looking for grip shifters.
>
> My questions-
>
> Are there any decent quality trigger type 8 speed shifters currently
> available?
>
> Can I buy a 9 speed shifter and just dial in the rear derailer so it
> just stops after 8 gears? If so, is this hard on the shifter or rear
> dearailer if I accidentally try to shift to that phantom 9th gear?

I get asked this a lot, so I have a boilerplate response:

Even if you could find them, I wouldn't recommend buying 8-speed
shifters unless they are _very_ cheap. It makes more sense to upgrade
to 9-speed, since the expensive part of this conversion is the shifter,
and you already need a shifter!

The only additional parts you need for 9-speed are a new chain and
cassette, and these are normally consumable parts anyway--odds are yours
are already close to due for replacement.

Some folks will tell you that you need a lot of other stuff to convert
an 8-speed bike to 9-speed, but they're wrong.

Also, you can generally use the 9-speed shifters with your old 8-speed
cassette by using the "alternate cable routing" shown at
http://sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html#alternate

Sheldon "Insert Nickname Here" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| This message has been sent to you using recycled electrons |
| exclusively. Please do not discard them after use, |
| send them along and help conserve these irreplaceable |
| sub-atomic resources for future generations. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

[Sheldon Brown]

Pizza Man wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> I am currently looking to upgrade the entry level integrated
> shifter/brakes on my 2005 Trek 4300. I am looking to improve quality
> and prefer the ability to select separate shifters and brakes for
> maximum options.
>
> I just picked up a set of Avid single digit ti brake levers, so I am
> set there. Now that I am shopping for shifters I am having some
> difficulties. Virtually all the indexed trigger shifters for sale are
> 9 spd. I have an 8 spd cassette with Alivio rear derailer. Of the few
> 8 spd shifters I find available the quality seems to top out with the
> Alivo line. I'd prefer to go a bit above that for reliability and
> longer life (Deore, Deore LX maybe XT), but don't need high end racing
> type gear. Also, not looking for grip shifters.
>
> My questions-
>
> Are there any decent quality trigger type 8 speed shifters currently
> available?
>
> Can I buy a 9 speed shifter and just dial in the rear derailer so it
> just stops after 8 gears? If so, is this hard on the shifter or rear
> dearailer if I accidentally try to shift to that phantom 9th gear?

I get asked this a lot, so I have a boilerplate response:

Even if you could find them, I wouldn't recommend buying 8-speed
shifters unless they are _very_ cheap. It makes more sense to upgrade
to 9-speed, since the expensive part of this conversion is the shifter,
and you already need a shifter!

The only additional parts you need for 9-speed are a new chain and
cassette, and these are normally consumable parts anyway--odds are yours
are already close to due for replacement.

Some folks will tell you that you need a lot of other stuff to convert
an 8-speed bike to 9-speed, but they're wrong.

Also, you can generally use the 9-speed shifters with your old 8-speed
cassette by using the "alternate cable routing" shown at
http://sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html#alternate

Sheldon "Insert Nickname Here" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| This message has been sent to you using recycled electrons |
| exclusively. Please do not discard them after use, |
| send them along and help conserve these irreplaceable |
| sub-atomic resources for future generations. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

[Mike DeMicco]

Sheldon Brown > wrote in news:416D6E16.9090907
@sheldonbrown.com:

> I get asked this a lot, so I have a boilerplate response:
>
> Even if you could find them, I wouldn't recommend buying 8-speed
> shifters unless they are _very_ cheap. It makes more sense to upgrade
> to 9-speed, since the expensive part of this conversion is the shifter,
> and you already need a shifter!
>

In my opinion, 8 speed is a more reliable system for a mountain bike. The
chain is stronger and the cogs are thicker so they both should wear
longer. The gap between cogs is farther apart so shifting isn't so
affected by dirt and muck. This is not only my opinion, but that shared
by Mountain Bike Action. I've been very satisfied with my 8 speed
components. But of course if you can't find the parts...

--
Mike DeMicco >

[Mike DeMicco]

Sheldon Brown > wrote in news:416D6E16.9090907
@sheldonbrown.com:

> I get asked this a lot, so I have a boilerplate response:
>
> Even if you could find them, I wouldn't recommend buying 8-speed
> shifters unless they are _very_ cheap. It makes more sense to upgrade
> to 9-speed, since the expensive part of this conversion is the shifter,
> and you already need a shifter!
>

In my opinion, 8 speed is a more reliable system for a mountain bike. The
chain is stronger and the cogs are thicker so they both should wear
longer. The gap between cogs is farther apart so shifting isn't so
affected by dirt and muck. This is not only my opinion, but that shared
by Mountain Bike Action. I've been very satisfied with my 8 speed
components. But of course if you can't find the parts...

--
Mike DeMicco >

[Pizza Man]

> > My questions-
> >
> > Are there any decent quality trigger type 8 speed shifters currently
> > available?
> >
> > Can I buy a 9 speed shifter and just dial in the rear derailer so it
> > just stops after 8 gears? If so, is this hard on the shifter or rear
> > dearailer if I accidentally try to shift to that phantom 9th gear?
>
> I get asked this a lot, so I have a boilerplate response:
>
> Even if you could find them, I wouldn't recommend buying 8-speed
> shifters unless they are _very_ cheap. It makes more sense to upgrade
> to 9-speed, since the expensive part of this conversion is the shifter,
> and you already need a shifter!
>
> The only additional parts you need for 9-speed are a new chain and
> cassette, and these are normally consumable parts anyway--odds are yours
> are already close to due for replacement.
>
> Some folks will tell you that you need a lot of other stuff to convert
> an 8-speed bike to 9-speed, but they're wrong.
>
> Also, you can generally use the 9-speed shifters with your old 8-speed
> cassette by using the "alternate cable routing" shown at
> http://sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html#alternate
>

Sheldon "boilerplate" Brown,

Thank you for the helpful info. The link was very useful. I have an
Alivio rear derailleur and unfortunately it appears to be only 8 speed
(per the Shimano web site and some online retail sites). Unless you
have any tricks up your sleeve, I'll have to add a new rear derailleur
to the shopping list.

I'll take a look and see if the l'il Alivio even has the capability
for the suggested "alternate cable routing". That looks like a quick
fix (assuming I can get a steal on an 8 spd shifter).

I may just wait till I have trashed more components. The bike is less
than 2 months old and still in superb shape. The brakes were upgraded
by The LBS to deal with a braking problem. I figured this is a great
time to get some decent brake levers and eBay had a good deal. Ooops,
can't mount the new brake levers with the integrated shift/brake gizmo
already on the bike. New shifters seemed like a good quick fix. Which
leads to the need for new chain, new cassette, and new rear
derailleur, on a new bike......

At least when I wear out the existing drivetrain I can just go ahead
and make the jump to 9 speed with confidence. Or just go nuts and rip
out all the 8 spd now and go 9 spd....Hmmmmm

Thanks for the assistance,

Tracy "Thinking out loud" Olson

[Pizza Man]

> > My questions-
> >
> > Are there any decent quality trigger type 8 speed shifters currently
> > available?
> >
> > Can I buy a 9 speed shifter and just dial in the rear derailer so it
> > just stops after 8 gears? If so, is this hard on the shifter or rear
> > dearailer if I accidentally try to shift to that phantom 9th gear?
>
> I get asked this a lot, so I have a boilerplate response:
>
> Even if you could find them, I wouldn't recommend buying 8-speed
> shifters unless they are _very_ cheap. It makes more sense to upgrade
> to 9-speed, since the expensive part of this conversion is the shifter,
> and you already need a shifter!
>
> The only additional parts you need for 9-speed are a new chain and
> cassette, and these are normally consumable parts anyway--odds are yours
> are already close to due for replacement.
>
> Some folks will tell you that you need a lot of other stuff to convert
> an 8-speed bike to 9-speed, but they're wrong.
>
> Also, you can generally use the 9-speed shifters with your old 8-speed
> cassette by using the "alternate cable routing" shown at
> http://sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html#alternate
>

Sheldon "boilerplate" Brown,

Thank you for the helpful info. The link was very useful. I have an
Alivio rear derailleur and unfortunately it appears to be only 8 speed
(per the Shimano web site and some online retail sites). Unless you
have any tricks up your sleeve, I'll have to add a new rear derailleur
to the shopping list.

I'll take a look and see if the l'il Alivio even has the capability
for the suggested "alternate cable routing". That looks like a quick
fix (assuming I can get a steal on an 8 spd shifter).

I may just wait till I have trashed more components. The bike is less
than 2 months old and still in superb shape. The brakes were upgraded
by The LBS to deal with a braking problem. I figured this is a great
time to get some decent brake levers and eBay had a good deal. Ooops,
can't mount the new brake levers with the integrated shift/brake gizmo
already on the bike. New shifters seemed like a good quick fix. Which
leads to the need for new chain, new cassette, and new rear
derailleur, on a new bike......

At least when I wear out the existing drivetrain I can just go ahead
and make the jump to 9 speed with confidence. Or just go nuts and rip
out all the 8 spd now and go 9 spd....Hmmmmm

Thanks for the assistance,

Tracy "Thinking out loud" Olson

[Tim Howe]

(Pizza Man) wrote in message >...
> > > My questions-
> > >
> > > Are there any decent quality trigger type 8 speed shifters currently
> > > available?
> > >
> > > Can I buy a 9 speed shifter and just dial in the rear derailer so it
> > > just stops after 8 gears? If so, is this hard on the shifter or rear
> > > dearailer if I accidentally try to shift to that phantom 9th gear?
> >
<sheldon>
> > I get asked this a lot, so I have a boilerplate response:
<snip>
> > The only additional parts you need for 9-speed are a new chain and
> > cassette, and these are normally consumable parts anyway--odds are yours
> > are already close to due for replacement.
<snip>
>
> Sheldon "boilerplate" Brown,
>
> Thank you for the helpful info. The link was very useful. I have an
> Alivio rear derailleur and unfortunately it appears to be only 8 speed
> (per the Shimano web site and some online retail sites). Unless you
> have any tricks up your sleeve, I'll have to add a new rear derailleur
> to the shopping list.
>
> I'll take a look and see if the l'il Alivio even has the capability
> for the suggested "alternate cable routing". That looks like a quick
> fix (assuming I can get a steal on an 8 spd shifter).
>
> I may just wait till I have trashed more components. The bike is less
> than 2 months old and still in superb shape. The brakes were upgraded
> by The LBS to deal with a braking problem. I figured this is a great
> time to get some decent brake levers and eBay had a good deal. Ooops,
> can't mount the new brake levers with the integrated shift/brake gizmo
> already on the bike. New shifters seemed like a good quick fix. Which
> leads to the need for new chain, new cassette, and new rear
> derailleur, on a new bike......
>
> At least when I wear out the existing drivetrain I can just go ahead
> and make the jump to 9 speed with confidence. Or just go nuts and rip
> out all the 8 spd now and go 9 spd....Hmmmmm
>
> Thanks for the assistance,
>
> Tracy "Thinking out loud" Olson


Stick with the 8speed for now, ride the bike, trash it, see what
breaks. Replace it. When you wear out your current casette, replace
it with a 9 speed and upgrade your shifters. The low end shimano
stuff (alivio) is really pretty darn good these days.

If you really want to stick with 8speed (possible future issues with
parts avalibility) you can upgrade to these:

http://www.bikeusa.com/MERCHANT2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MSGI&Product_Code=LD8730

NOS STX-RC for $35. (Grades used to run Alivio,STX,STX-RC,LX,XT,XTR)

If you do decide to move to 9sp, you don't need to change the
derailer, they all work the same. Shimano may tell you differently
but they are selling you something. You also don't need to "upgrade"
your chainrings. As Sheldon said the ONLY thing you need different
between 8 and 9sp is the chain, shifters, and casette. (throw a rear
hub into the mix and that's the only difference between 7 through 10
speed)

-Tim

[Tim Howe]

(Pizza Man) wrote in message >...
> > > My questions-
> > >
> > > Are there any decent quality trigger type 8 speed shifters currently
> > > available?
> > >
> > > Can I buy a 9 speed shifter and just dial in the rear derailer so it
> > > just stops after 8 gears? If so, is this hard on the shifter or rear
> > > dearailer if I accidentally try to shift to that phantom 9th gear?
> >
<sheldon>
> > I get asked this a lot, so I have a boilerplate response:
<snip>
> > The only additional parts you need for 9-speed are a new chain and
> > cassette, and these are normally consumable parts anyway--odds are yours
> > are already close to due for replacement.
<snip>
>
> Sheldon "boilerplate" Brown,
>
> Thank you for the helpful info. The link was very useful. I have an
> Alivio rear derailleur and unfortunately it appears to be only 8 speed
> (per the Shimano web site and some online retail sites). Unless you
> have any tricks up your sleeve, I'll have to add a new rear derailleur
> to the shopping list.
>
> I'll take a look and see if the l'il Alivio even has the capability
> for the suggested "alternate cable routing". That looks like a quick
> fix (assuming I can get a steal on an 8 spd shifter).
>
> I may just wait till I have trashed more components. The bike is less
> than 2 months old and still in superb shape. The brakes were upgraded
> by The LBS to deal with a braking problem. I figured this is a great
> time to get some decent brake levers and eBay had a good deal. Ooops,
> can't mount the new brake levers with the integrated shift/brake gizmo
> already on the bike. New shifters seemed like a good quick fix. Which
> leads to the need for new chain, new cassette, and new rear
> derailleur, on a new bike......
>
> At least when I wear out the existing drivetrain I can just go ahead
> and make the jump to 9 speed with confidence. Or just go nuts and rip
> out all the 8 spd now and go 9 spd....Hmmmmm
>
> Thanks for the assistance,
>
> Tracy "Thinking out loud" Olson


Stick with the 8speed for now, ride the bike, trash it, see what
breaks. Replace it. When you wear out your current casette, replace
it with a 9 speed and upgrade your shifters. The low end shimano
stuff (alivio) is really pretty darn good these days.

If you really want to stick with 8speed (possible future issues with
parts avalibility) you can upgrade to these:

http://www.bikeusa.com/MERCHANT2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MSGI&Product_Code=LD8730

NOS STX-RC for $35. (Grades used to run Alivio,STX,STX-RC,LX,XT,XTR)

If you do decide to move to 9sp, you don't need to change the
derailer, they all work the same. Shimano may tell you differently
but they are selling you something. You also don't need to "upgrade"
your chainrings. As Sheldon said the ONLY thing you need different
between 8 and 9sp is the chain, shifters, and casette. (throw a rear
hub into the mix and that's the only difference between 7 through 10
speed)

-Tim

[gwhite]

Mike DeMicco wrote:
>
> Sheldon Brown > wrote in news:416D6E16.9090907
> @sheldonbrown.com:
>
> > I get asked this a lot, so I have a boilerplate response:
> >
> > Even if you could find them, I wouldn't recommend buying 8-speed
> > shifters unless they are _very_ cheap. It makes more sense to upgrade
> > to 9-speed, since the expensive part of this conversion is the shifter,
> > and you already need a shifter!
> >
>
> In my opinion, 8 speed is a more reliable system for a mountain bike. The
> chain is stronger...

Evidence?

> ... and the cogs are thicker...

9 x 1.78 mm = 16.02 mm
8 x 1.80 mm = 14.10 mm

9sp have more cog face area in the aggregate, so there is not necessarily a
basis for this claim, but maybe a basis for the *opposite* claim, especially if
the extra cog is in the middle of the range. Closer spacing not commensurate
with cog width means the face area is more densely packed with metal -- metal
that engages the chain.

> ...so they both should wear longer.
>

Evidence? The 8sp cogs are only 1.1% thicker, so even on a single cog basis,
the claim is a stretch in any practical way. The 9sp chain might wear faster,
but that would depend upon the sleeve/pin interface width (which is not
visible). If the 9sp pin/sleeve interface is a lesser linear length than the
8sp chain, then the claim regarding chain wear may well be true. However, all
claims of increased wear are typically absent of any rational reasoning. (In
any event, there will be tradeoff judgement even if there is faster wear. Do I
want the extra gear, or do I want to buy a new chain slightly more often.)

> The gap between cogs is farther apart so shifting isn't so
> affected by dirt and muck. This is not only my opinion, but that shared
> by Mountain Bike Action.

Hey, well if it is in MBA, then who could argue?


> I've been very satisfied with my 8 speed
> components.

I too am highly satisfied w/ 8sp systems. But have you actually ridden/tested a
9sp in a scientific way to make the "farther apart" claim.

> But of course if you can't find the parts...

I don't seem to have much trouble.

[gwhite]

Mike DeMicco wrote:
>
> Sheldon Brown > wrote in news:416D6E16.9090907
> @sheldonbrown.com:
>
> > I get asked this a lot, so I have a boilerplate response:
> >
> > Even if you could find them, I wouldn't recommend buying 8-speed
> > shifters unless they are _very_ cheap. It makes more sense to upgrade
> > to 9-speed, since the expensive part of this conversion is the shifter,
> > and you already need a shifter!
> >
>
> In my opinion, 8 speed is a more reliable system for a mountain bike. The
> chain is stronger...

Evidence?

> ... and the cogs are thicker...

9 x 1.78 mm = 16.02 mm
8 x 1.80 mm = 14.10 mm

9sp have more cog face area in the aggregate, so there is not necessarily a
basis for this claim, but maybe a basis for the *opposite* claim, especially if
the extra cog is in the middle of the range. Closer spacing not commensurate
with cog width means the face area is more densely packed with metal -- metal
that engages the chain.

> ...so they both should wear longer.
>

Evidence? The 8sp cogs are only 1.1% thicker, so even on a single cog basis,
the claim is a stretch in any practical way. The 9sp chain might wear faster,
but that would depend upon the sleeve/pin interface width (which is not
visible). If the 9sp pin/sleeve interface is a lesser linear length than the
8sp chain, then the claim regarding chain wear may well be true. However, all
claims of increased wear are typically absent of any rational reasoning. (In
any event, there will be tradeoff judgement even if there is faster wear. Do I
want the extra gear, or do I want to buy a new chain slightly more often.)

> The gap between cogs is farther apart so shifting isn't so
> affected by dirt and muck. This is not only my opinion, but that shared
> by Mountain Bike Action.

Hey, well if it is in MBA, then who could argue?


> I've been very satisfied with my 8 speed
> components.

I too am highly satisfied w/ 8sp systems. But have you actually ridden/tested a
9sp in a scientific way to make the "farther apart" claim.

> But of course if you can't find the parts...

I don't seem to have much trouble.

[Pizza Man]

Mike DeMicco > wrote in message >...
> Sheldon Brown > wrote in news:416D6E16.9090907
> @sheldonbrown.com:
>
> > I get asked this a lot, so I have a boilerplate response:
> >
> > Even if you could find them, I wouldn't recommend buying 8-speed
> > shifters unless they are _very_ cheap. It makes more sense to upgrade
> > to 9-speed, since the expensive part of this conversion is the shifter,
> > and you already need a shifter!
> >
>
> In my opinion, 8 speed is a more reliable system for a mountain bike. The
> chain is stronger and the cogs are thicker so they both should wear
> longer. The gap between cogs is farther apart so shifting isn't so
> affected by dirt and muck. This is not only my opinion, but that shared
> by Mountain Bike Action. I've been very satisfied with my 8 speed
> components. But of course if you can't find the parts...

Mike,

I did a fair amount of newsgroup and www surfing before buying my
bike. I had read plenty of posts that agree with what you said
regarding the advantages of 8 speed drivetrains. That is part of the
reason I opted for the Trek 4300 over costlier 9 speed setups that
seemed to offer little advantage at the time.

I was pleased with my decision until I realized my 2005 Trek 4300
components were already slated for obsolescence. D'oh! I was bike
shopping, not component shopping. For me, reliability and long
component life are more important than an additional gear tossed in
there or shaving a gram or two (for many additional $$$). It also
seems that 8 speed components are selling at a noticeable discount to
9 speed gear (all things being equal). I was really surprised at the
price difference just between comparable 8spd and 9spd chains. Maybe I
just need to watch for bargains and pick up 8 speed consumables for
future spares?

>But of course if you can't find the parts...

I don't think this is a huge issue right now. I think it is more a
matter of knowing what to look for and where to find it. I have an 80s
vintage touring bike that I am considering for restoration. Imagine my
dismay when I go to the sporting goods stores and can't even buy a
tube or tire for the 27" rim. Even some of the LBS didn't have any
stock. Those that did typically had one model of mediocre quality.
Forget about any other components being in stock. Crushed, but not
detoured, I whip out the handy-dandy www and do some searching. eBay
has some nice Suntour NOS shifters and freewheels. Woo-hoo!. More
searching, I locate additional goodies at online bike shops that
specialize in old stuff or just keep old stuff around. Yee-haw! No, I
don't think finding quality 8 speed parts will be too difficult for
the time being. The problem is knowing what to get. What are my
options? The manufacturers web sites have purged the quality 8 speed
(obsolete, no longer sold) parts from their viewing line up. I don't
know what the model numbers are, I don't know their, specs, and
figuring out what to get can be difficult. Even in MTB Review, the
components are not always identified by product year. What model is
being reviewed? Even worse, when multiple model year products end up
dumped under one model name. Jeez, this guy liked it, this dude hated
it. Were they the same product or is it a mediocre 2000 model lumped
in with a new-and-improved 2001 model? Dunno.

I guess this leads me full circle back to my original question. Can
anyone provide model numbers for quality (yet perceived as obsolete) 8
speed, trigger type shifters?

Hey I'll toss in another. Are there any quality lines of 8 speed
drivetrain components I should be looking at? ( I am assuming that
Shimano made some good XT or LX stuff way back in the days of 8 speeds
that I could pick up for a bargain).

I'll keep searching and wait to see what others may say about 8 speed
components.

Thanks, Tracy

[Pizza Man]

Mike DeMicco > wrote in message >...
> Sheldon Brown > wrote in news:416D6E16.9090907
> @sheldonbrown.com:
>
> > I get asked this a lot, so I have a boilerplate response:
> >
> > Even if you could find them, I wouldn't recommend buying 8-speed
> > shifters unless they are _very_ cheap. It makes more sense to upgrade
> > to 9-speed, since the expensive part of this conversion is the shifter,
> > and you already need a shifter!
> >
>
> In my opinion, 8 speed is a more reliable system for a mountain bike. The
> chain is stronger and the cogs are thicker so they both should wear
> longer. The gap between cogs is farther apart so shifting isn't so
> affected by dirt and muck. This is not only my opinion, but that shared
> by Mountain Bike Action. I've been very satisfied with my 8 speed
> components. But of course if you can't find the parts...

Mike,

I did a fair amount of newsgroup and www surfing before buying my
bike. I had read plenty of posts that agree with what you said
regarding the advantages of 8 speed drivetrains. That is part of the
reason I opted for the Trek 4300 over costlier 9 speed setups that
seemed to offer little advantage at the time.

I was pleased with my decision until I realized my 2005 Trek 4300
components were already slated for obsolescence. D'oh! I was bike
shopping, not component shopping. For me, reliability and long
component life are more important than an additional gear tossed in
there or shaving a gram or two (for many additional $$$). It also
seems that 8 speed components are selling at a noticeable discount to
9 speed gear (all things being equal). I was really surprised at the
price difference just between comparable 8spd and 9spd chains. Maybe I
just need to watch for bargains and pick up 8 speed consumables for
future spares?

>But of course if you can't find the parts...

I don't think this is a huge issue right now. I think it is more a
matter of knowing what to look for and where to find it. I have an 80s
vintage touring bike that I am considering for restoration. Imagine my
dismay when I go to the sporting goods stores and can't even buy a
tube or tire for the 27" rim. Even some of the LBS didn't have any
stock. Those that did typically had one model of mediocre quality.
Forget about any other components being in stock. Crushed, but not
detoured, I whip out the handy-dandy www and do some searching. eBay
has some nice Suntour NOS shifters and freewheels. Woo-hoo!. More
searching, I locate additional goodies at online bike shops that
specialize in old stuff or just keep old stuff around. Yee-haw! No, I
don't think finding quality 8 speed parts will be too difficult for
the time being. The problem is knowing what to get. What are my
options? The manufacturers web sites have purged the quality 8 speed
(obsolete, no longer sold) parts from their viewing line up. I don't
know what the model numbers are, I don't know their, specs, and
figuring out what to get can be difficult. Even in MTB Review, the
components are not always identified by product year. What model is
being reviewed? Even worse, when multiple model year products end up
dumped under one model name. Jeez, this guy liked it, this dude hated
it. Were they the same product or is it a mediocre 2000 model lumped
in with a new-and-improved 2001 model? Dunno.

I guess this leads me full circle back to my original question. Can
anyone provide model numbers for quality (yet perceived as obsolete) 8
speed, trigger type shifters?

Hey I'll toss in another. Are there any quality lines of 8 speed
drivetrain components I should be looking at? ( I am assuming that
Shimano made some good XT or LX stuff way back in the days of 8 speeds
that I could pick up for a bargain).

I'll keep searching and wait to see what others may say about 8 speed
components.

Thanks, Tracy

[Bruce Lange]

I have an
> Alivio rear derailleur and unfortunately it appears to be only 8 speed
> (per the Shimano web site and some online retail sites). Unless you
> have any tricks up your sleeve, I'll have to add a new rear derailleur
> to the shopping list.

Derailleur's don't typically care how many speeds you have. It should work
fine for 9 speed.

[Bruce Lange]

I have an
> Alivio rear derailleur and unfortunately it appears to be only 8 speed
> (per the Shimano web site and some online retail sites). Unless you
> have any tricks up your sleeve, I'll have to add a new rear derailleur
> to the shopping list.

Derailleur's don't typically care how many speeds you have. It should work
fine for 9 speed.

[gwhite]

Pizza Man wrote:
>

> I guess this leads me full circle back to my original question. Can
> anyone provide model numbers for quality (yet perceived as obsolete) 8
> speed, trigger type shifters?

STX were fine, and not too expensive. You'll be ebay-ing that one.

> Hey I'll toss in another. Are there any quality lines of 8 speed
> drivetrain components I should be looking at? ( I am assuming that
> Shimano made some good XT or LX stuff way back in the days of 8 speeds
> that I could pick up for a bargain).

All perfectly okay.

> I'll keep searching and wait to see what others may say about 8 speed
> components.

8sp seems to be a bit cheaper when chain and cassette costs are compared to
9sp. Other than that, it is mostly a zip diff except you get one more gear w/
9sp.

[gwhite]

Pizza Man wrote:
>

> I guess this leads me full circle back to my original question. Can
> anyone provide model numbers for quality (yet perceived as obsolete) 8
> speed, trigger type shifters?

STX were fine, and not too expensive. You'll be ebay-ing that one.

> Hey I'll toss in another. Are there any quality lines of 8 speed
> drivetrain components I should be looking at? ( I am assuming that
> Shimano made some good XT or LX stuff way back in the days of 8 speeds
> that I could pick up for a bargain).

All perfectly okay.

> I'll keep searching and wait to see what others may say about 8 speed
> components.

8sp seems to be a bit cheaper when chain and cassette costs are compared to
9sp. Other than that, it is mostly a zip diff except you get one more gear w/
9sp.

[[email protected]]

Bruce Lange > writes:

>> I have an Alivio rear derailleur and unfortunately it appears to be
>> only 8 speed (per the Shimano web site and some online retail
>> sites). Unless you have any tricks up your sleeve, I'll have to add
>> a new rear derailleur to the shopping list.

> Derailleur's don't typically care how many speeds you have. It
> should work fine for 9 speed.

Not the shift mechanism but the limit screw is there to prevent
over-shifting into the spokes. This adjustment is usually not able to
cut off a whole gear jump and a half, a half gear width being the
usual. I have that problem and even though I could put in a longer
stop screw, its threaded bore is not aimed at the stop surface, so it
doesn't work. I must be careful when shifting into the largest rear
sprocket to not over-shift.

Jobst Brandt

[[email protected]]

Bruce Lange > writes:

>> I have an Alivio rear derailleur and unfortunately it appears to be
>> only 8 speed (per the Shimano web site and some online retail
>> sites). Unless you have any tricks up your sleeve, I'll have to add
>> a new rear derailleur to the shopping list.

> Derailleur's don't typically care how many speeds you have. It
> should work fine for 9 speed.

Not the shift mechanism but the limit screw is there to prevent
over-shifting into the spokes. This adjustment is usually not able to
cut off a whole gear jump and a half, a half gear width being the
usual. I have that problem and even though I could put in a longer
stop screw, its threaded bore is not aimed at the stop surface, so it
doesn't work. I must be careful when shifting into the largest rear
sprocket to not over-shift.

Jobst Brandt

[Mike DeMicco]

gwhite > wrote in
:

>
>
> Mike DeMicco wrote:
>>
>> Sheldon Brown > wrote in
>> news:416D6E16.9090907 @sheldonbrown.com:
>>
>> > I get asked this a lot, so I have a boilerplate response:
>> >
>> > Even if you could find them, I wouldn't recommend buying 8-speed
>> > shifters unless they are _very_ cheap. It makes more sense to
>> > upgrade to 9-speed, since the expensive part of this conversion is
>> > the shifter, and you already need a shifter!
>> >
>>
>> In my opinion, 8 speed is a more reliable system for a mountain bike.
>> The chain is stronger...
>
> Evidence?

Bent cogs.

>> The gap between cogs is farther apart so shifting isn't so
>> affected by dirt and muck. This is not only my opinion, but that
>> shared by Mountain Bike Action.
>
> Hey, well if it is in MBA, then who could argue?

I've seen it on friend's bikes. Too bad you haven't. They have more
credibility than you do at any rate.


--
Mike DeMicco >

[Mike DeMicco]

gwhite > wrote in
:

>
>
> Mike DeMicco wrote:
>>
>> Sheldon Brown > wrote in
>> news:416D6E16.9090907 @sheldonbrown.com:
>>
>> > I get asked this a lot, so I have a boilerplate response:
>> >
>> > Even if you could find them, I wouldn't recommend buying 8-speed
>> > shifters unless they are _very_ cheap. It makes more sense to
>> > upgrade to 9-speed, since the expensive part of this conversion is
>> > the shifter, and you already need a shifter!
>> >
>>
>> In my opinion, 8 speed is a more reliable system for a mountain bike.
>> The chain is stronger...
>
> Evidence?

Bent cogs.

>> The gap between cogs is farther apart so shifting isn't so
>> affected by dirt and muck. This is not only my opinion, but that
>> shared by Mountain Bike Action.
>
> Hey, well if it is in MBA, then who could argue?

I've seen it on friend's bikes. Too bad you haven't. They have more
credibility than you do at any rate.


--
Mike DeMicco >

[Mike DeMicco]

(Pizza Man) wrote in
om:

> I guess this leads me full circle back to my original question. Can
> anyone provide model numbers for quality (yet perceived as obsolete) 8
> speed, trigger type shifters?

Shimano XT Rapidfire shifter pods (M739).


--
Mike DeMicco >

[Mike DeMicco]

(Pizza Man) wrote in
om:

> I guess this leads me full circle back to my original question. Can
> anyone provide model numbers for quality (yet perceived as obsolete) 8
> speed, trigger type shifters?

Shimano XT Rapidfire shifter pods (M739).


--
Mike DeMicco >

[Werehatrack]

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:55:16 GMT,
wrote:

>Bruce Lange > writes:
>
>>> I have an Alivio rear derailleur and unfortunately it appears to be
>>> only 8 speed (per the Shimano web site and some online retail
>>> sites). Unless you have any tricks up your sleeve, I'll have to add
>>> a new rear derailleur to the shopping list.
>
>> Derailleur's don't typically care how many speeds you have. It
>> should work fine for 9 speed.
>
>Not the shift mechanism but the limit screw is there to prevent
>over-shifting into the spokes. This adjustment is usually not able to
>cut off a whole gear jump and a half, a half gear width being the
>usual. I have that problem and even though I could put in a longer
>stop screw, its threaded bore is not aimed at the stop surface, so it
>doesn't work. I must be careful when shifting into the largest rear
>sprocket to not over-shift.

I've found an inelegant but sometimes useful trick to get around this:
install one of the add-on derailleur mounting tabs that are designed
for frames that have no der mount hole on the dropout. This moves the
der out by a little less than one sprocket-and-spacer's worth of
distance.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

[Werehatrack]

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:55:16 GMT,
wrote:

>Bruce Lange > writes:
>
>>> I have an Alivio rear derailleur and unfortunately it appears to be
>>> only 8 speed (per the Shimano web site and some online retail
>>> sites). Unless you have any tricks up your sleeve, I'll have to add
>>> a new rear derailleur to the shopping list.
>
>> Derailleur's don't typically care how many speeds you have. It
>> should work fine for 9 speed.
>
>Not the shift mechanism but the limit screw is there to prevent
>over-shifting into the spokes. This adjustment is usually not able to
>cut off a whole gear jump and a half, a half gear width being the
>usual. I have that problem and even though I could put in a longer
>stop screw, its threaded bore is not aimed at the stop surface, so it
>doesn't work. I must be careful when shifting into the largest rear
>sprocket to not over-shift.

I've found an inelegant but sometimes useful trick to get around this:
install one of the add-on derailleur mounting tabs that are designed
for frames that have no der mount hole on the dropout. This moves the
der out by a little less than one sprocket-and-spacer's worth of
distance.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

[gwhite]

Mike DeMicco wrote:
>
> gwhite > wrote in
> :
>
> >
> >
> > Mike DeMicco wrote:
> >>
> >> Sheldon Brown > wrote in
> >> news:416D6E16.9090907 @sheldonbrown.com:
> >>
> >> > I get asked this a lot, so I have a boilerplate response:
> >> >
> >> > Even if you could find them, I wouldn't recommend buying 8-speed
> >> > shifters unless they are _very_ cheap. It makes more sense to
> >> > upgrade to 9-speed, since the expensive part of this conversion is
> >> > the shifter, and you already need a shifter!
> >> >
> >>
> >> In my opinion, 8 speed is a more reliable system for a mountain bike.
> >> The chain is stronger...
> >
> > Evidence?
>
> Bent cogs.

You're saying a 1.78 mm cog is _meaningfully_ more liable to bend than a 1.8 mm
cog? I think anecdotes themselves won't be enough in this case.

> >> The gap between cogs is farther apart so shifting isn't so
> >> affected by dirt and muck. This is not only my opinion, but that
> >> shared by Mountain Bike Action.
> >
> > Hey, well if it is in MBA, then who could argue?
>
> I've seen it on friend's bikes. Too bad you haven't. They have more
> credibility than you do at any rate.

How is that?

[gwhite]

Mike DeMicco wrote:
>
> gwhite > wrote in
> :
>
> >
> >
> > Mike DeMicco wrote:
> >>
> >> Sheldon Brown > wrote in
> >> news:416D6E16.9090907 @sheldonbrown.com:
> >>
> >> > I get asked this a lot, so I have a boilerplate response:
> >> >
> >> > Even if you could find them, I wouldn't recommend buying 8-speed
> >> > shifters unless they are _very_ cheap. It makes more sense to
> >> > upgrade to 9-speed, since the expensive part of this conversion is
> >> > the shifter, and you already need a shifter!
> >> >
> >>
> >> In my opinion, 8 speed is a more reliable system for a mountain bike.
> >> The chain is stronger...
> >
> > Evidence?
>
> Bent cogs.

You're saying a 1.78 mm cog is _meaningfully_ more liable to bend than a 1.8 mm
cog? I think anecdotes themselves won't be enough in this case.

> >> The gap between cogs is farther apart so shifting isn't so
> >> affected by dirt and muck. This is not only my opinion, but that
> >> shared by Mountain Bike Action.
> >
> > Hey, well if it is in MBA, then who could argue?
>
> I've seen it on friend's bikes. Too bad you haven't. They have more
> credibility than you do at any rate.

How is that?

[gwhite]

wrote:
>
> Bruce Lange > writes:
>
> >> I have an Alivio rear derailleur and unfortunately it appears to be
> >> only 8 speed (per the Shimano web site and some online retail
> >> sites). Unless you have any tricks up your sleeve, I'll have to add
> >> a new rear derailleur to the shopping list.
>
> > Derailleur's don't typically care how many speeds you have. It
> > should work fine for 9 speed.
>
> Not the shift mechanism but the limit screw is there to prevent
> over-shifting into the spokes. This adjustment is usually not able to
> cut off a whole gear jump and a half, a half gear width being the
> usual. I have that problem and even though I could put in a longer
> stop screw, its threaded bore is not aimed at the stop surface, so it
> doesn't work. I must be careful when shifting into the largest rear
> sprocket to not over-shift.


Don't you have the problem backwards? Also, a 9sp cassette is for all practical
purposes the same width as an 8sp, with the inner (big) cog in *exactly* the
same position laterally.

[gwhite]

wrote:
>
> Bruce Lange > writes:
>
> >> I have an Alivio rear derailleur and unfortunately it appears to be
> >> only 8 speed (per the Shimano web site and some online retail
> >> sites). Unless you have any tricks up your sleeve, I'll have to add
> >> a new rear derailleur to the shopping list.
>
> > Derailleur's don't typically care how many speeds you have. It
> > should work fine for 9 speed.
>
> Not the shift mechanism but the limit screw is there to prevent
> over-shifting into the spokes. This adjustment is usually not able to
> cut off a whole gear jump and a half, a half gear width being the
> usual. I have that problem and even though I could put in a longer
> stop screw, its threaded bore is not aimed at the stop surface, so it
> doesn't work. I must be careful when shifting into the largest rear
> sprocket to not over-shift.


Don't you have the problem backwards? Also, a 9sp cassette is for all practical
purposes the same width as an 8sp, with the inner (big) cog in *exactly* the
same position laterally.

[qtq]

(Tim Howe) wrote in
om:
> http://www.bikeusa.com/MERCHANT2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MSG
> I&Product_Code=LD8730
> NOS STX-RC for $35. (Grades used to run Alivio,STX,STX-RC,LX,XT,XTR)

Having two bikes, one with STX-RC, one with Deore, there's no perceptible
difference in shift force, at least with my thumbs.

--
to email me, run my email address through /usr/bin/caesar
(or rotate by -4)

[qtq]

(Tim Howe) wrote in
om:
> http://www.bikeusa.com/MERCHANT2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MSG
> I&Product_Code=LD8730
> NOS STX-RC for $35. (Grades used to run Alivio,STX,STX-RC,LX,XT,XTR)

Having two bikes, one with STX-RC, one with Deore, there's no perceptible
difference in shift force, at least with my thumbs.

--
to email me, run my email address through /usr/bin/caesar
(or rotate by -4)

[Pistof]

"Pizza Man" > wrote in message
om...
> Greetings,
>
> I am currently looking to upgrade the entry level integrated
> shifter/brakes on my 2005 Trek 4300. I am looking to improve quality
> and prefer the ability to select separate shifters and brakes for
> maximum options.
>
> I just picked up a set of Avid single digit ti brake levers, so I am
> set there. Now that I am shopping for shifters I am having some
> difficulties. Virtually all the indexed trigger shifters for sale are
> 9 spd. I have an 8 spd cassette with Alivio rear derailer. Of the few
> 8 spd shifters I find available the quality seems to top out with the
> Alivo line. I'd prefer to go a bit above that for reliability and
> longer life (Deore, Deore LX maybe XT), but don't need high end racing
> type gear. Also, not looking for grip shifters.
>
> My questions-
>
> Are there any decent quality trigger type 8 speed shifters currently
> available?
>
> Can I buy a 9 speed shifter and just dial in the rear derailer so it
> just stops after 8 gears? If so, is this hard on the shifter or rear
> dearailer if I accidentally try to shift to that phantom 9th gear?
>
> Thanks, Tracy

You are in search of these:
http://tinyurl.com/46nzv

Dave

[Pistof]

"Pizza Man" > wrote in message
om...
> Greetings,
>
> I am currently looking to upgrade the entry level integrated
> shifter/brakes on my 2005 Trek 4300. I am looking to improve quality
> and prefer the ability to select separate shifters and brakes for
> maximum options.
>
> I just picked up a set of Avid single digit ti brake levers, so I am
> set there. Now that I am shopping for shifters I am having some
> difficulties. Virtually all the indexed trigger shifters for sale are
> 9 spd. I have an 8 spd cassette with Alivio rear derailer. Of the few
> 8 spd shifters I find available the quality seems to top out with the
> Alivo line. I'd prefer to go a bit above that for reliability and
> longer life (Deore, Deore LX maybe XT), but don't need high end racing
> type gear. Also, not looking for grip shifters.
>
> My questions-
>
> Are there any decent quality trigger type 8 speed shifters currently
> available?
>
> Can I buy a 9 speed shifter and just dial in the rear derailer so it
> just stops after 8 gears? If so, is this hard on the shifter or rear
> dearailer if I accidentally try to shift to that phantom 9th gear?
>
> Thanks, Tracy

You are in search of these:
http://tinyurl.com/46nzv

Dave

[Pistof]

"gwhite" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Mike DeMicco wrote:
> >
> > gwhite > wrote in
> > :
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike DeMicco wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Sheldon Brown > wrote in
> > >> news:416D6E16.9090907 @sheldonbrown.com:
> > >>
> > >> > I get asked this a lot, so I have a boilerplate response:
> > >> >
> > >> > Even if you could find them, I wouldn't recommend buying 8-speed
> > >> > shifters unless they are _very_ cheap. It makes more sense to
> > >> > upgrade to 9-speed, since the expensive part of this conversion is
> > >> > the shifter, and you already need a shifter!
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> In my opinion, 8 speed is a more reliable system for a mountain bike.
> > >> The chain is stronger...
> > >
> > > Evidence?
> >
> > Bent cogs.
>
> You're saying a 1.78 mm cog is _meaningfully_ more liable to bend than a
1.8 mm
> cog? I think anecdotes themselves won't be enough in this case.
>
> > >> The gap between cogs is farther apart so shifting isn't so
> > >> affected by dirt and muck. This is not only my opinion, but that
> > >> shared by Mountain Bike Action.
> > >
> > > Hey, well if it is in MBA, then who could argue?
> >
> > I've seen it on friend's bikes. Too bad you haven't. They have more
> > credibility than you do at any rate.
>
> How is that?

Mike's right about this. 9s can "ghost shift" when it gets
muddied-up. Also, there are many reports that the thinner
9s cogs bend under stress shifts. The advantage nine
speeds has over eight is the greater range and/or tighter
ratios. That said, there's not much difference between the
12x32 8s and 11x32 9s cassettes
than a little more top end.

Dave

[Pistof]

"gwhite" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Mike DeMicco wrote:
> >
> > gwhite > wrote in
> > :
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike DeMicco wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Sheldon Brown > wrote in
> > >> news:416D6E16.9090907 @sheldonbrown.com:
> > >>
> > >> > I get asked this a lot, so I have a boilerplate response:
> > >> >
> > >> > Even if you could find them, I wouldn't recommend buying 8-speed
> > >> > shifters unless they are _very_ cheap. It makes more sense to
> > >> > upgrade to 9-speed, since the expensive part of this conversion is
> > >> > the shifter, and you already need a shifter!
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> In my opinion, 8 speed is a more reliable system for a mountain bike.
> > >> The chain is stronger...
> > >
> > > Evidence?
> >
> > Bent cogs.
>
> You're saying a 1.78 mm cog is _meaningfully_ more liable to bend than a
1.8 mm
> cog? I think anecdotes themselves won't be enough in this case.
>
> > >> The gap between cogs is farther apart so shifting isn't so
> > >> affected by dirt and muck. This is not only my opinion, but that
> > >> shared by Mountain Bike Action.
> > >
> > > Hey, well if it is in MBA, then who could argue?
> >
> > I've seen it on friend's bikes. Too bad you haven't. They have more
> > credibility than you do at any rate.
>
> How is that?

Mike's right about this. 9s can "ghost shift" when it gets
muddied-up. Also, there are many reports that the thinner
9s cogs bend under stress shifts. The advantage nine
speeds has over eight is the greater range and/or tighter
ratios. That said, there's not much difference between the
12x32 8s and 11x32 9s cassettes
than a little more top end.

Dave

[[email protected]]

Try Sram MRX Grip Shifters they come in 7 and 8 speed.

I MTB 2004

[[email protected]]

Try Sram MRX Grip Shifters they come in 7 and 8 speed.

I MTB 2004

[Pizza Man]

"Pistof" > wrote in message >...
> > My questions-
> >
> > Are there any decent quality trigger type 8 speed shifters currently
> > available?
> >
> > Can I buy a 9 speed shifter and just dial in the rear derailer so it
> > just stops after 8 gears? If so, is this hard on the shifter or rear
> > dearailer if I accidentally try to shift to that phantom 9th gear?
> >
> > Thanks, Tracy
>
> You are in search of these:
> http://tinyurl.com/46nzv
>
> Dave

Dave,

Quality...Nice!!! Price...Ouch!!!

I went to my LBS and they had one set left at $104 + tax. I was hoping
for a better deal on "obsolete" 8 speed gear. Next, I checked eBay and
it looks like these can be had NOS on a consistant basis for around
$70 + tax. More reasonable. It looks like LX shifters are an even
better deal. I went ahead and picked up a STX shifter (Deore
predecessor) for $20 on eBay. Too good a deal to pass up. If I don't
like them, I'll try the LX or XT.

Thanks for the link, Tracy

[Pizza Man]

"Pistof" > wrote in message >...
> > My questions-
> >
> > Are there any decent quality trigger type 8 speed shifters currently
> > available?
> >
> > Can I buy a 9 speed shifter and just dial in the rear derailer so it
> > just stops after 8 gears? If so, is this hard on the shifter or rear
> > dearailer if I accidentally try to shift to that phantom 9th gear?
> >
> > Thanks, Tracy
>
> You are in search of these:
> http://tinyurl.com/46nzv
>
> Dave

Dave,

Quality...Nice!!! Price...Ouch!!!

I went to my LBS and they had one set left at $104 + tax. I was hoping
for a better deal on "obsolete" 8 speed gear. Next, I checked eBay and
it looks like these can be had NOS on a consistant basis for around
$70 + tax. More reasonable. It looks like LX shifters are an even
better deal. I went ahead and picked up a STX shifter (Deore
predecessor) for $20 on eBay. Too good a deal to pass up. If I don't
like them, I'll try the LX or XT.

Thanks for the link, Tracy

[Pizza Man]

> Stick with the 8speed for now, ride the bike, trash it, see what
> breaks. Replace it. When you wear out your current casette, replace
> it with a 9 speed and upgrade your shifters. The low end shimano
> stuff (alivio) is really pretty darn good these days.

Tim,

I have decided to stay with the 8 speed for now. I'll probably lurk on
eBay and slowly accumulate 9spd gear when I find screaming bargins.
When my 8 spd shows its age I can make my move to 9.

> If you really want to stick with 8speed (possible future issues with
> parts avalibility) you can upgrade to these:
>
> http://www.bikeusa.com/MERCHANT2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MSGI&Product_Code=LD8730
>
> NOS STX-RC for $35. (Grades used to run Alivio,STX,STX-RC,LX,XT,XTR)

They look like decent shifters. I went to eBay and picke up a set for
$16. Cha-Ching!!!

[Pizza Man]

> Stick with the 8speed for now, ride the bike, trash it, see what
> breaks. Replace it. When you wear out your current casette, replace
> it with a 9 speed and upgrade your shifters. The low end shimano
> stuff (alivio) is really pretty darn good these days.

Tim,

I have decided to stay with the 8 speed for now. I'll probably lurk on
eBay and slowly accumulate 9spd gear when I find screaming bargins.
When my 8 spd shows its age I can make my move to 9.

> If you really want to stick with 8speed (possible future issues with
> parts avalibility) you can upgrade to these:
>
> http://www.bikeusa.com/MERCHANT2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MSGI&Product_Code=LD8730
>
> NOS STX-RC for $35. (Grades used to run Alivio,STX,STX-RC,LX,XT,XTR)

They look like decent shifters. I went to eBay and picke up a set for
$16. Cha-Ching!!!