big Pete
October 16th 04, 07:47 PM
Wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:37:47 -0700, jim beam
> > wrote:
>
> wrote:
> ><snip>
> >>
> >> Dear Ron,
> >>
> >> I think that the usual problem of claims about "feel" is
> >> hard to overcome. No matter how resonant the structure of
> >> the metal spokes, hub, and rim may be, it's all damped by
> >> the inflated rubber tire.
> >
> >if i flick a highly inflated tire with my finger, and the whole wheel
> >rings like a bell, has the shock of that minor impact been all dampe
> by
> >the rubber or has it been transmitted to the wheels structure?
> >
> >>
> >> But you could be right. A faintly similar test would be to
> >> try to tell the difference between hitting a tire while
> >> blindfolded with the same hammer heads mounted on different
> >> rubber-covered shafts--wood, fiberglass, and steel. I know
> >> that carpenters believe in differences between the feel of
> >> such materials, but I don't know about whether they would
> >> claim to feel the difference with a resilient rubber tire on
> >> one end and a rubber grip on the other.
> >>
> >> Carl Fogel
>
> Dear Jim,
>
> I instantly assumed that you were insane, began scribbling a
> reply that would expose your evil claims as the work of the
> devil, and then remembered that I have a bicycle sitting in
> the garage--a bicycle that I trust to back me up faithfully
> whenever questions are raised.
>
> I flicked a confident fingernail against the rear tire as my
> bicycle slept peacefully on its back, wheels in the air. It
> produced a dull, satisfying thunk, indicating that Jim Beam
> is deluded. I flicked it several more times to confirm that
> it was about as bell-like as a rubber ducky.
>
> But then I grew over-confident and flicked my fingernail
> against the front tire. Same tire model, same rim, 36
> spokes, roughly the same tension, same inflation--and a
> faint but undeniably bell-like vibration was painfully
> evident.
>
> The traitorous bicycle was rudely flipped right side up and
> both tires were mercilessly flicked with a standard
> fingernail. I leaned on the handlebars and on the seat. I
> rolled it back and forth. But things remained stubbornly the
> same. The rear tire sounded like someone kicking a car tire.
> The front tire still gave a faint vibration.
>
> Maybe the chain and gear cluster and freehub mechanism
> deaden things on the rear wheel? Or the rigid triangle damps
> things better than the fork? I checked that the brake pads
> weren't binding.
>
> I loosened both quick-releases. Same thing--front rings,
> back doesn't.
>
> I pulled the rear wheel out of the rigid frame and free from
> the chain and began flicking it cruelly with my fingernail,
> trying to make it cry as it stood helpless and alone on the
> garage floor. It still emitted nothing more than a dull
> thunk.
>
> So maybe the weight of just the gears and freehub is enough
> to deaden the vibration?
>
> Or just the damping of a plastic spoke protector?
>
> If you're familiar with violins, you know how tiny and yet
> effective a wooden, rubber, or plastic mute is when pressed
> against or clipped onto the bridge:
>
> http://www.sharmusic.com/itemdy00Violin.asp?T1=1304+GLD&Cat=
>
> I hope that others will take a few moments and flick their
> front and rear tires in the back of the head with a
> fingernail--they can't fight back, so you can bully them as
> much as you like.
>
> Whether slight differences in such faint vibration can be
> noticed while rolling along on the pavement is another
> matter, but I want to know why my front wheel aspires to
> Stradivarian heights, while my rear wheel seems to have a
> cold.
>
> Carl Fogel
Dear Carl and others,
I have tyred this test just now. The same thing happened to me, my bac
wheel rang less than the front wheel (I would not say it was a thud ..
it seemed like a long thud (i.e. it had a very slight ring to it))
This was on my road bike with the bent axle trued to compensate for th
bend (This is the wheel I will be replacing). This wheel has no plastic
guard on it, x 3 strait gage spokes. Why does my front wheel ring more
than my back?
Pete
--
big Pete
> On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:37:47 -0700, jim beam
> > wrote:
>
> wrote:
> ><snip>
> >>
> >> Dear Ron,
> >>
> >> I think that the usual problem of claims about "feel" is
> >> hard to overcome. No matter how resonant the structure of
> >> the metal spokes, hub, and rim may be, it's all damped by
> >> the inflated rubber tire.
> >
> >if i flick a highly inflated tire with my finger, and the whole wheel
> >rings like a bell, has the shock of that minor impact been all dampe
> by
> >the rubber or has it been transmitted to the wheels structure?
> >
> >>
> >> But you could be right. A faintly similar test would be to
> >> try to tell the difference between hitting a tire while
> >> blindfolded with the same hammer heads mounted on different
> >> rubber-covered shafts--wood, fiberglass, and steel. I know
> >> that carpenters believe in differences between the feel of
> >> such materials, but I don't know about whether they would
> >> claim to feel the difference with a resilient rubber tire on
> >> one end and a rubber grip on the other.
> >>
> >> Carl Fogel
>
> Dear Jim,
>
> I instantly assumed that you were insane, began scribbling a
> reply that would expose your evil claims as the work of the
> devil, and then remembered that I have a bicycle sitting in
> the garage--a bicycle that I trust to back me up faithfully
> whenever questions are raised.
>
> I flicked a confident fingernail against the rear tire as my
> bicycle slept peacefully on its back, wheels in the air. It
> produced a dull, satisfying thunk, indicating that Jim Beam
> is deluded. I flicked it several more times to confirm that
> it was about as bell-like as a rubber ducky.
>
> But then I grew over-confident and flicked my fingernail
> against the front tire. Same tire model, same rim, 36
> spokes, roughly the same tension, same inflation--and a
> faint but undeniably bell-like vibration was painfully
> evident.
>
> The traitorous bicycle was rudely flipped right side up and
> both tires were mercilessly flicked with a standard
> fingernail. I leaned on the handlebars and on the seat. I
> rolled it back and forth. But things remained stubbornly the
> same. The rear tire sounded like someone kicking a car tire.
> The front tire still gave a faint vibration.
>
> Maybe the chain and gear cluster and freehub mechanism
> deaden things on the rear wheel? Or the rigid triangle damps
> things better than the fork? I checked that the brake pads
> weren't binding.
>
> I loosened both quick-releases. Same thing--front rings,
> back doesn't.
>
> I pulled the rear wheel out of the rigid frame and free from
> the chain and began flicking it cruelly with my fingernail,
> trying to make it cry as it stood helpless and alone on the
> garage floor. It still emitted nothing more than a dull
> thunk.
>
> So maybe the weight of just the gears and freehub is enough
> to deaden the vibration?
>
> Or just the damping of a plastic spoke protector?
>
> If you're familiar with violins, you know how tiny and yet
> effective a wooden, rubber, or plastic mute is when pressed
> against or clipped onto the bridge:
>
> http://www.sharmusic.com/itemdy00Violin.asp?T1=1304+GLD&Cat=
>
> I hope that others will take a few moments and flick their
> front and rear tires in the back of the head with a
> fingernail--they can't fight back, so you can bully them as
> much as you like.
>
> Whether slight differences in such faint vibration can be
> noticed while rolling along on the pavement is another
> matter, but I want to know why my front wheel aspires to
> Stradivarian heights, while my rear wheel seems to have a
> cold.
>
> Carl Fogel
Dear Carl and others,
I have tyred this test just now. The same thing happened to me, my bac
wheel rang less than the front wheel (I would not say it was a thud ..
it seemed like a long thud (i.e. it had a very slight ring to it))
This was on my road bike with the bent axle trued to compensate for th
bend (This is the wheel I will be replacing). This wheel has no plastic
guard on it, x 3 strait gage spokes. Why does my front wheel ring more
than my back?
Pete
--
big Pete