Lights: HL-EL500 vs. Superspot vs. Emitter

[Paul]

I'm looking for a commuting light to use on generally well lit city
streets and am after a nice bright LED, something along the lines of
the Cateye HL-EL500, Planetbike Superspot, or Nitehawk Emitter. None
of them are easy to find in stores around here (Charlottesville, VA)
and I wonder if anyone knew anything about the following:
1) Beam width, I'd like something with good side visability, there's a
ton of bad drivers and unlit, wrong-way bikers around...
2) Durability. I'd really like something that'll last for years. I had
and lost a cateye HL-EL200 and the construction was really pretty
awful, the casing was flimsy plastic and held together by friction.
Those two are really the key, but I'm also curious about battery
length and mounting quality as well. Also, the smaller LEDs (HL-EL400
and Dualspot, e.g.) seem like they'd be a little underpowered, but I
wonder if people use those with success?
Thanks for any help.

[Matt O'Toole]

Paul wrote:

> I'm looking for a commuting light to use on generally well lit city
> streets and am after a nice bright LED, something along the lines of
> the Cateye HL-EL500, Planetbike Superspot, or Nitehawk Emitter. None
> of them are easy to find in stores around here (Charlottesville, VA)
> and I wonder if anyone knew anything about the following:
> 1) Beam width, I'd like something with good side visability, there's a
> ton of bad drivers and unlit, wrong-way bikers around...
> 2) Durability. I'd really like something that'll last for years. I had
> and lost a cateye HL-EL200 and the construction was really pretty
> awful, the casing was flimsy plastic and held together by friction.
> Those two are really the key, but I'm also curious about battery
> length and mounting quality as well. Also, the smaller LEDs (HL-EL400
> and Dualspot, e.g.) seem like they'd be a little underpowered, but I
> wonder if people use those with success?
> Thanks for any help.

Performance has NOS/reburbished Viewpoint Dual systems on sale right now for
$29.00. This is about ten times as much light as a new EL500 for a little more
than half the price. Why screw around with a little handlebar light that
actually costs more? Oddly, the single systems are on sale too, but priced
higher.

I consider the Performance systems to be about the best of the MR11 type. They
have quick-releasing, individually aimable heads, good switches, and better beam
patterns than most, including Nightrider. The Performance brand may not have
enough cachet for some riders, but in this case it's a superior product.

Matt O.

[Matt O'Toole]

Paul wrote:

> I'm looking for a commuting light to use on generally well lit city
> streets and am after a nice bright LED, something along the lines of
> the Cateye HL-EL500, Planetbike Superspot, or Nitehawk Emitter. None
> of them are easy to find in stores around here (Charlottesville, VA)
> and I wonder if anyone knew anything about the following:
> 1) Beam width, I'd like something with good side visability, there's a
> ton of bad drivers and unlit, wrong-way bikers around...
> 2) Durability. I'd really like something that'll last for years. I had
> and lost a cateye HL-EL200 and the construction was really pretty
> awful, the casing was flimsy plastic and held together by friction.
> Those two are really the key, but I'm also curious about battery
> length and mounting quality as well. Also, the smaller LEDs (HL-EL400
> and Dualspot, e.g.) seem like they'd be a little underpowered, but I
> wonder if people use those with success?
> Thanks for any help.

Performance has NOS/reburbished Viewpoint Dual systems on sale right now for
$29.00. This is about ten times as much light as a new EL500 for a little more
than half the price. Why screw around with a little handlebar light that
actually costs more? Oddly, the single systems are on sale too, but priced
higher.

I consider the Performance systems to be about the best of the MR11 type. They
have quick-releasing, individually aimable heads, good switches, and better beam
patterns than most, including Nightrider. The Performance brand may not have
enough cachet for some riders, but in this case it's a superior product.

Matt O.

[M. Chandler]

Matt O'Toole wrote:

> Performance has NOS/reburbished Viewpoint Dual systems on sale right now for
> $29.00. This is about ten times as much light as a new EL500 for a little more
> than half the price. Why screw around with a little handlebar light that
> actually costs more? Oddly, the single systems are on sale too, but priced
> higher.
>
> I consider the Performance systems to be about the best of the MR11 type. They
> have quick-releasing, individually aimable heads, good switches, and better beam
> patterns than most, including Nightrider. The Performance brand may not have
> enough cachet for some riders, but in this case it's a superior product.
>
> Matt O.

Is the above price an in-store special only? I looked online, and
didn't see it.

--
Mark Chandler
Superior, CO
http://www.MileHighSkates.com

[M. Chandler]

Matt O'Toole wrote:

> Performance has NOS/reburbished Viewpoint Dual systems on sale right now for
> $29.00. This is about ten times as much light as a new EL500 for a little more
> than half the price. Why screw around with a little handlebar light that
> actually costs more? Oddly, the single systems are on sale too, but priced
> higher.
>
> I consider the Performance systems to be about the best of the MR11 type. They
> have quick-releasing, individually aimable heads, good switches, and better beam
> patterns than most, including Nightrider. The Performance brand may not have
> enough cachet for some riders, but in this case it's a superior product.
>
> Matt O.

Is the above price an in-store special only? I looked online, and
didn't see it.

--
Mark Chandler
Superior, CO
http://www.MileHighSkates.com

[Matt O'Toole]

M. Chandler wrote:

> Matt O'Toole wrote:
>
>> Performance has NOS/reburbished Viewpoint Dual systems on sale right
>> now for $29.00. This is about ten times as much light as a new
>> EL500 for a little more than half the price. Why screw around with
>> a little handlebar light that actually costs more? Oddly, the
>> single systems are on sale too, but priced higher.

> Is the above price an in-store special only? I looked online, and
> didn't see it.

Nope, it was on a sale flyer that came with an order a few days ago. I'll have
a look for it in the morning, and post the product code.

Matt O.

[Matt O'Toole]

M. Chandler wrote:

> Matt O'Toole wrote:
>
>> Performance has NOS/reburbished Viewpoint Dual systems on sale right
>> now for $29.00. This is about ten times as much light as a new
>> EL500 for a little more than half the price. Why screw around with
>> a little handlebar light that actually costs more? Oddly, the
>> single systems are on sale too, but priced higher.

> Is the above price an in-store special only? I looked online, and
> didn't see it.

Nope, it was on a sale flyer that came with an order a few days ago. I'll have
a look for it in the morning, and post the product code.

Matt O.

[Jeff Loomis]

Paul wrote:
> I'm looking for a commuting light to use on generally well lit city
> streets and am after a nice bright LED, something along the lines of
> the Cateye HL-EL500, Planetbike Superspot, or Nitehawk Emitter. None
....
> 1) Beam width, I'd like something with good side visability, there's
a

I have the Nitehawk Emitter, $40 from nashbar. The side visibility is
poor to nonexistent. It has a surprisingly bright beam which seems to
be achieved by keeping it narrowly focussed.

> 2) Durability. I'd really like something that'll last for years. I
had

It also seems pretty flimsy. I guess it's about what I would expect
for the price. The battery compartment snaps together with 3 little
clips that don't seem to engage very positively. Also, the bulb pod
isn't very solidly attached to the body and jiggles around a lot on
rough roads. The plastic itself seems tough, not the kind that cracks
easily.

Things I like about it:

* It's bright enough for me. Opinions about how much light is needed
vary wildly. There will always be some that feel the current brightest
lights available with several pounds of battery are the minimum. I can
see fine in dark areas with the emitter, and in street lighted areas
it's bright enough to be seen.

* It's compact and light.

* It runs for at least 5 hours on 4 fully charged NiMH AA cells. The
manufacturer claims 8 hours but I haven't run the cells dry to test the
claim.

* The handlebar mount works pretty well with an easy and solid on/off
locking lever.

-Jeff

[Jeff Loomis]

Paul wrote:
> I'm looking for a commuting light to use on generally well lit city
> streets and am after a nice bright LED, something along the lines of
> the Cateye HL-EL500, Planetbike Superspot, or Nitehawk Emitter. None
....
> 1) Beam width, I'd like something with good side visability, there's
a

I have the Nitehawk Emitter, $40 from nashbar. The side visibility is
poor to nonexistent. It has a surprisingly bright beam which seems to
be achieved by keeping it narrowly focussed.

> 2) Durability. I'd really like something that'll last for years. I
had

It also seems pretty flimsy. I guess it's about what I would expect
for the price. The battery compartment snaps together with 3 little
clips that don't seem to engage very positively. Also, the bulb pod
isn't very solidly attached to the body and jiggles around a lot on
rough roads. The plastic itself seems tough, not the kind that cracks
easily.

Things I like about it:

* It's bright enough for me. Opinions about how much light is needed
vary wildly. There will always be some that feel the current brightest
lights available with several pounds of battery are the minimum. I can
see fine in dark areas with the emitter, and in street lighted areas
it's bright enough to be seen.

* It's compact and light.

* It runs for at least 5 hours on 4 fully charged NiMH AA cells. The
manufacturer claims 8 hours but I haven't run the cells dry to test the
claim.

* The handlebar mount works pretty well with an easy and solid on/off
locking lever.

-Jeff

[Matt O'Toole]

Matt O'Toole wrote:

> M. Chandler wrote:
>
>> Matt O'Toole wrote:
>>
>>> Performance has NOS/reburbished Viewpoint Dual systems on sale right
>>> now for $29.00. This is about ten times as much light as a new
>>> EL500 for a little more than half the price. Why screw around with
>>> a little handlebar light that actually costs more? Oddly, the
>>> single systems are on sale too, but priced higher.
>
>> Is the above price an in-store special only? I looked online, and
>> didn't see it.
>
> Nope, it was on a sale flyer that came with an order a few days ago.
> I'll have a look for it in the morning, and post the product code.


Here it is:

Viewpoint Dual Headlight '98, 40-0677F, $29.99
Viewpoint Single Pro Handlebar Mount Headlight, 40-1795G, $49.99

Unfortunately, the first one comes back "no such product," and the second one is
sold out. Sorry about that!

Matt O.

[Matt O'Toole]

Matt O'Toole wrote:

> M. Chandler wrote:
>
>> Matt O'Toole wrote:
>>
>>> Performance has NOS/reburbished Viewpoint Dual systems on sale right
>>> now for $29.00. This is about ten times as much light as a new
>>> EL500 for a little more than half the price. Why screw around with
>>> a little handlebar light that actually costs more? Oddly, the
>>> single systems are on sale too, but priced higher.
>
>> Is the above price an in-store special only? I looked online, and
>> didn't see it.
>
> Nope, it was on a sale flyer that came with an order a few days ago.
> I'll have a look for it in the morning, and post the product code.


Here it is:

Viewpoint Dual Headlight '98, 40-0677F, $29.99
Viewpoint Single Pro Handlebar Mount Headlight, 40-1795G, $49.99

Unfortunately, the first one comes back "no such product," and the second one is
sold out. Sorry about that!

Matt O.

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

I just got the EL-500 and like the long battery life and durability, ease of
hbar attachment. Beam is quite useable, round with side beams. I like it a lot.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

[Paul Kopit]

On 24 Oct 2004 14:09:00 GMT, (Qui si parla
Campagnolo ) wrote:

>I just got the EL-500 and like the long battery life and durability, ease of
>hbar attachment. Beam is quite useable, round with side beams. I like it a lot.
>
I got one recently as well. It beats the EL300 to death. I'm going
to use it instead of the Turbocat with a 6w bulb next week for a
double in Death Valley. I bought it with that in mind.

[Andreas Oehler]

24 Oct 2004 14:09:00 GMT, Qui si parla Campagnolo :

>I just got the EL-500 and like the long battery life and durability, ease of
>hbar attachment. Beam is quite useable, round with side beams. I like it a lot.

Strange - my impressions are quite the opposite:

I have an EL-300G here - the german version with low battery warnig LED
and switching regulator for constant brightness. At 6.0 V battery voltage
it consumes 400mA, at 4.6 V it consumes 500mA. This means battery runtime
will be exactly the same as for a 2.4W halogen headlight. The
"interenational" version might have no switching regulator, which means it
makes no sense to use rechargable batteries and the brightness will
decrease over time. I presume after about 4 hours brightness will be only
60% of the level it started.

Brightness of the EL-300G (9-10 lux in 10 m distance) is lower than a good
2.4W halogen headlamp (12-17 lux in 10 m).

The beam is very (!) narrow. I am used to dynamo headlamps which are
already narrow, but this is too much, if you are not riding on illuminated
streets or just on straight country lanes.

Because the beam is so narrow and short, it is neccessary to adjust it
very often. If I keep the clamp screw in a tightness level to allow for
vertical beam adjustment, the beam angle will change by itself when riding
over rough surface.


I presume the Cateye engineers wanted to allow for a better LED lamp to be
released next year...

Andreas

[Andreas Oehler]

24 Oct 2004 14:09:00 GMT, Qui si parla Campagnolo :

>I just got the EL-500 and like the long battery life and durability, ease of
>hbar attachment. Beam is quite useable, round with side beams. I like it a lot.

Strange - my impressions are quite the opposite:

I have an EL-500G here - the german version with low battery warnig LED
and switching regulator for constant brightness. At 6.0 V battery voltage
it consumes 400mA, at 4.6 V it consumes 500mA. This means battery runtime
will be exactly the same as for a 2.4W halogen headlight. The
"interenational" version might have no switching regulator, which means it
makes no sense to use rechargable batteries and the brightness will
decrease over time. I presume after about 4 hours brightness will be only
60% of the level it started.

Brightness of the EL-500G (9-10 lux in 10 m distance) is lower than a good
2.4W halogen headlamp (12-17 lux in 10 m).

The beam is very (!) narrow. I am used to dynamo headlamps which are
already narrow, but this is too much, if you are not riding on illuminated
streets or just on straight country lanes.

Because the beam is so narrow and short, it is neccessary to adjust it
very often. If I keep the clamp screw in a tightness level to allow for
vertical beam adjustment, the beam angle will change by itself when riding
over rough surface.


I presume the Cateye engineers wanted to allow for a better LED lamp to be
released next year...

Andreas

P.S. In an earlier posting I typed "EL-300G" instead of "EL-500G", but I
am talking about the new version with one ultra-bright LED, not the older
with 5 individual LEDs.

[Ron Hardin]

Andreas Oehler wrote:
> >I just got the EL-500 and like the long battery life and durability, ease of
> >hbar attachment. Beam is quite useable, round with side beams. I like it a lot.
>
> Strange - my impressions are quite the opposite:
>
> I have an EL-500G here - the german version with low battery warnig LED
> and switching regulator for constant brightness. At 6.0 V battery voltage
> it consumes 400mA, at 4.6 V it consumes 500mA. This means battery runtime
> will be exactly the same as for a 2.4W halogen headlight. The
> "interenational" version might have no switching regulator, which means it
> makes no sense to use rechargable batteries and the brightness will
> decrease over time. I presume after about 4 hours brightness will be only
> 60% of the level it started.

I don't follow the reasoning. NiMH are sort of self-regulating, staying at about
the same voltage and then dying very quickly afterwards.

I've noticed no dimming with NiMH until the batteries are about done. The lack of
a warning dimming in fact is a problem. (I use multiple EL500's, four in fact,
one with 1700mAh batteries as a warning to recharge them all; the other three have
2200mAh batteries and so are good for the rest of the trip regardless.) Alkaline
batteries give you much more warning dimming.

The runtime is certainly _much_ more than 4h with NiMH. I haven't clocked it though.

My HL-1500 halogens with the same 4 AA's ran 3h and that was that.

Maybe the regulator circuitry is generating chiefly heat in yours. I'm not sure
how they regulate DC; if they regulate voltage, they'll generate heat. If they
regulate duty cycle, they might do better.
--
Ron Hardin


On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

[Andreas Oehler]

Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:19:59 GMT, Ron Hardin:

>Andreas Oehler wrote:
>> I have an EL-500G here - the german version with low battery warnig LED
>> and switching regulator for constant brightness. At 6.0 V battery voltage
>> it consumes 400mA, at 4.6 V it consumes 500mA. This means battery runtime
>> will be exactly the same as for a 2.4W halogen headlight. The
>> "interenational" version might have no switching regulator, which means it
>> makes no sense to use rechargable batteries and the brightness will
>> decrease over time. I presume after about 4 hours brightness will be only
>> 60% of the level it started.
>
>I don't follow the reasoning. NiMH are sort of self-regulating, staying at about
>the same voltage and then dying very quickly afterwards.

Of course. I'm not talking about NiMH, because the EL-500 is not designed
to be used with those. The current through the LED and the resulting
brightness will be much lower than with alkaline cells. Of course with
NiMH the batteries will run longer, but the light will be dim from the
start...

Someone else reported about a test report in the UK based "AtoB" magazine:
They said the power consumption of the EL-500 was 2.2 Watts with alkaline
batteries and 1.3 Watts with rechargeables.

>Maybe the regulator circuitry is generating chiefly heat in yours. I'm not sure
>how they regulate DC; if they regulate voltage, they'll generate heat. If they
>regulate duty cycle, they might do better.

The EL-500G consumes 2.2 to 2.4 Watt (depending on the input voltage).
Good DC/DC regulators are in the 80 to 90 % area of efficiency. The series
resistor as "current regulator" in the EL-300 won't be more efficient...

Andreas

[Ron Hardin]

Andreas Oehler wrote:
> >I don't follow the reasoning. NiMH are sort of self-regulating, staying at about
> >the same voltage and then dying very quickly afterwards.
>
> Of course. I'm not talking about NiMH, because the EL-500 is not designed
> to be used with those. The current through the LED and the resulting
> brightness will be much lower than with alkaline cells. Of course with
> NiMH the batteries will run longer, but the light will be dim from the
> start...

Well, they claim 30h of runtime with alkaline, which seems likely to be true.
That's ten times my HL-1500 halogen. So there's something very different from
the light you're trying about the nonregulated one.
--
Ron Hardin


On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

[Phil, Squid-in-Training]

Paul Kopit wrote:
> On 24 Oct 2004 14:09:00 GMT, (Qui si parla
> Campagnolo ) wrote:
>
>> I just got the EL-500 and like the long battery life and durability,
>> ease of hbar attachment. Beam is quite useable, round with side
>> beams. I like it a lot.
>>
> I got one recently as well. It beats the EL300 to death. I'm going
> to use it instead of the Turbocat with a 6w bulb next week for a
> double in Death Valley. I bought it with that in mind.

Pete and Paul,

Do you notice an appreciable loss in brightness when trying to use NiMHs as
opposed to alkalines? I'm speaking of a loss right off the bat and up to an
hour after turning it on.
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

[Andreas Oehler]

Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:42:41 GMT, Ron Hardin:

>Andreas Oehler wrote:
>> >I don't follow the reasoning. NiMH are sort of self-regulating, staying at about
>> >the same voltage and then dying very quickly afterwards.
>>
>> Of course. I'm not talking about NiMH, because the EL-500 is not designed
>> to be used with those. The current through the LED and the resulting
>> brightness will be much lower than with alkaline cells. Of course with
>> NiMH the batteries will run longer, but the light will be dim from the
>> start...
>
>Well, they claim 30h of runtime with alkaline, which seems likely to be true.
>That's ten times my HL-1500 halogen. So there's something very different from
>the light you're trying about the nonregulated one.

If the report in AtoB magazine about the 2.2 Watt power uptake for fresh
alkalines in the "international" EL-500 is true, this means about 370mA at
6 Volt. Capacity of the more expensive alkaline cells is around 2200 to
2800 mAh. So it is neccessary to run the light for more than 20 hours with
nearly dead batteries at less than 50mA to reach 30 hours of "runtime". It
won't be of any use to see the road - but it definitely emitts a little
light then...

Andreas

[Ron Hardin]

Andreas Oehler wrote:
>
> Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:42:41 GMT, Ron Hardin:
>
> >Andreas Oehler wrote:
> >> >I don't follow the reasoning. NiMH are sort of self-regulating, staying at about
> >> >the same voltage and then dying very quickly afterwards.
> >>
> >> Of course. I'm not talking about NiMH, because the EL-500 is not designed
> >> to be used with those. The current through the LED and the resulting
> >> brightness will be much lower than with alkaline cells. Of course with
> >> NiMH the batteries will run longer, but the light will be dim from the
> >> start...
> >
> >Well, they claim 30h of runtime with alkaline, which seems likely to be true.
> >That's ten times my HL-1500 halogen. So there's something very different from
> >the light you're trying about the nonregulated one.
>
> If the report in AtoB magazine about the 2.2 Watt power uptake for fresh
> alkalines in the "international" EL-500 is true, this means about 370mA at
> 6 Volt. Capacity of the more expensive alkaline cells is around 2200 to
> 2800 mAh. So it is neccessary to run the light for more than 20 hours with
> nearly dead batteries at less than 50mA to reach 30 hours of "runtime". It
> won't be of any use to see the road - but it definitely emitts a little
> light then...
>
> Andreas

There's also, against that, the fact that the EL-500 is much dimmer than the HL-1500,
I would say consistently with a 30h run time vs 3h runtime. (They use the same
batteries.)

I compare the brightness using NiMH for both; though the runtime figures are presumably
for alkaline in the literature.

My own need is for long runtimes; and I simply added EL-500s (four total) to bring
it up to a good level of brightness for my circumstances, thus getting the light
I need with the long runtimes I need.

I have not actually timed the time to recharge, but it is more than 10 hours certainly,
with 1700mAh NiMH cells that I use in the canary-in-the-mine light. At the point
it goes dim, the other three lights with 2200mAh cells are going strong with enough
light so I don't notice them as inadequate.

They give at least another 3h of light for the 500mAh difference, so that would put
the runtime estimate over 12h for 2000mAh, which is sort of an independent verification
and it may be much more. I recharge them before they go dark so I have not found out.

Incidentally don't run the light on dim if you don't have to. The weakest battery
of the four can get reverse-charged by the others, which can damage it, once it's
drained completely.
--
Ron Hardin


On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

[Paul Kopit]

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 01:13:02 GMT, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
> wrote:

>Pete and Paul,
>
>Do you notice an appreciable loss in brightness when trying to use NiMHs as
>opposed to alkalines? I'm speaking of a loss right off the bat and up to an
>hour after turning it on.
>--
>Phil, Squid-in-Training

I didn't try NiMHs, I put in alkalines. They cost me $1 at a dollar
store. Even though 30 hours is claimed, I figure on 20. I don't use
the light daily for commuting and the battery cost is negligible.