thoughts from chris carmichael on lance deing dehydrated

[dwjones]

An elite cyclist has three main obstacles on the road to success: crashing,
bonking, and getting dehydrated. Lance Armstrong lost over six kilograms of
body weight between waking up and finishing Stage 12 yesterday, all of it
fluid. That's 8% of his body weight! The fact that he lost some of his power
was understandable, and the facts he rode as well as he did yesterday and
today are remarkable.

Of a cyclist's three main obstacles, crashing is sometimes preferable
because if it is a minor fall, once you chase back on you can continue
racing at full power. On the hand, once you run out of either fuel (bonking)
or fluids (dehydration), there's no way to regain your power until you
replenish what you're missing. A 2% loss of body weight due to dehydration
leads to a 10-15% drop in sustainable power. If you lose 5-8% of your body
weight, you can lose at least 20% of your power. Such extreme fluid loss
also puts you at serious risk for heat exhaustion, a condition characterized
by a rise in core temperature due to a decreased ability to cool the body
through sweating.

Dehydration has other, more far-reaching effects on performance as well. In
an effort to continue racing at high speed, a dehydrated rider has to dig
very deep and expend more energy per unit time than normal. That means that
even though Lance was slower than usual during Stage 12, his effort level
was higher than normal. Recovering from such an effort, and replenishing his
lost fluids, takes time.

Lance Armstrong knew today was going to be tough. Your body is more
efficient at pulling fluids out of your body than it is replenishing them.
It takes more than 24 hours to recover from dehydrating to the extent he
did, no matter how much you drink. Following Stage 12, Lance consumed a lot
of water and a lot of sports drink in an effort to regain the fluids,
electrolytes, and energy he lost earlier in the day. By this morning, his
waking body weight (measured after using the bathroom) was nearly normal,
but he knew he would feel the lingering effects of the ordeal during Stage
13.

While Lance lacked some of his customary punch today, he diligently consumed
fluids throughout the stage and managed to contain his rivals. Finishing
seven seconds down on Jan Ullrich and passing Alexander Vinokorouv in the
final 500 meters of the stage was a great performance, all things
considered. Even more encouraging is Lance Armstrong's amazing ability to
recover from hard efforts. Part of what makes him a champion is his ability
to put in huge efforts on one stage, and then recover to be able to do it
again the following day.

Lance should be able to fully recover from the past two days and have a
strong performance during Stage 14. His goal is still to find opportunities
to attack and gain time on Jan Ullrich before Tuesday's rest day. Though his
legs may have wavered, Lance's will and character never do, and with a
strong team around him, he knows what he has to do to keep his yellow
jersey.

[dwjones]

who is better to comment about what had happened and it's effect than the
athlete's own coach.
"David Ryan" > wrote in message
...
> How about a source besides the brain of Chris Carmichael?
>
> dwjones wrote:
> >
> > An elite cyclist has three main obstacles on the road to success:
crashing,
> > bonking, and getting dehydrated. Lance Armstrong lost over six kilograms
of
> > body weight between waking up and finishing Stage 12 yesterday, all of
it
> > fluid. That's 8% of his body weight! The fact that he lost some of his
power
> > was understandable, and the facts he rode as well as he did yesterday
and
> > today are remarkable.
> >
> > Of a cyclist's three main obstacles, crashing is sometimes preferable
> > because if it is a minor fall, once you chase back on you can continue
> > racing at full power. On the hand, once you run out of either fuel
(bonking)
> > or fluids (dehydration), there's no way to regain your power until you
> > replenish what you're missing. A 2% loss of body weight due to
dehydration
> > leads to a 10-15% drop in sustainable power. If you lose 5-8% of your
body
> > weight, you can lose at least 20% of your power. Such extreme fluid loss
> > also puts you at serious risk for heat exhaustion, a condition
characterized
> > by a rise in core temperature due to a decreased ability to cool the
body
> > through sweating.
> >
> > Dehydration has other, more far-reaching effects on performance as well.
In
> > an effort to continue racing at high speed, a dehydrated rider has to
dig
> > very deep and expend more energy per unit time than normal. That means
that
> > even though Lance was slower than usual during Stage 12, his effort
level
> > was higher than normal. Recovering from such an effort, and replenishing
his
> > lost fluids, takes time.
> >
> > Lance Armstrong knew today was going to be tough. Your body is more
> > efficient at pulling fluids out of your body than it is replenishing
them.
> > It takes more than 24 hours to recover from dehydrating to the extent he
> > did, no matter how much you drink. Following Stage 12, Lance consumed a
lot
> > of water and a lot of sports drink in an effort to regain the fluids,
> > electrolytes, and energy he lost earlier in the day. By this morning,
his
> > waking body weight (measured after using the bathroom) was nearly
normal,
> > but he knew he would feel the lingering effects of the ordeal during
Stage
> > 13.
> >
> > While Lance lacked some of his customary punch today, he diligently
consumed
> > fluids throughout the stage and managed to contain his rivals. Finishing
> > seven seconds down on Jan Ullrich and passing Alexander Vinokorouv in
the
> > final 500 meters of the stage was a great performance, all things
> > considered. Even more encouraging is Lance Armstrong's amazing ability
to
> > recover from hard efforts. Part of what makes him a champion is his
ability
> > to put in huge efforts on one stage, and then recover to be able to do
it
> > again the following day.
> >
> > Lance should be able to fully recover from the past two days and have a
> > strong performance during Stage 14. His goal is still to find
opportunities
> > to attack and gain time on Jan Ullrich before Tuesday's rest day. Though
his
> > legs may have wavered, Lance's will and character never do, and with a
> > strong team around him, he knows what he has to do to keep his yellow
> > jersey.

[David Ryan]

dwjones wrote:
>
> how did i plagiarize chris carmichael's diary entry? just read the title to
> the post. it is quite clear that the words in my post was his.

FFR, it is customary to provide a URL.

> "Nick Burns" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "dwjones" > wrote in message
> >
> > <plagiarized Carmichael diary entry snipped>
> >
> > Duh. He means that you should give attribution, not an alternative.
> >
> >

[Isidor Gunsberg]

David Ryan > wrote in message >...
> dwjones wrote:
> >
> > how did i plagiarize chris carmichael's diary entry? just read the title to
> > the post. it is quite clear that the words in my post was his.
>
> FFR, it is customary to provide a URL.
>
> > "Nick Burns" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "dwjones" > wrote in message
> > >
> > > <plagiarized Carmichael diary entry snipped>
> > >
> > > Duh. He means that you should give attribution, not an alternative.
> > >
> > >


Plagiarism is not the issue. Even with full attribution, it is,
strictly speaking, not legal to simply copy and post the entire piece
that was written by Carmichael. Doing so goes well beyond "Fair Use".

It is perfectly ethical to cite Carmichael's article, to directly
quote a few passages, to paraphrase other portions, and to give a link
to one of the sources. Your copy and paste job goes beyond bounds, and
infringes on copyright. However, "No harm, no foul", I suppose.....

[warren]

In article <_bjSa.99668$ye4.71709@sccrnsc01>, dwjones
> wrote:

> who is better to comment about what had happened and it's effect than the
> athlete's own coach.


He is not Lance's coach. He is a friend and advisor, and a not very
expert advisor at that. Lance's association with Chris is more about
friendship and publicity for Chris's company.

-WG


> "David Ryan" > wrote in message
> ...
> > How about a source besides the brain of Chris Carmichael?
> >
> > dwjones wrote:
> > >
> > > An elite cyclist has three main obstacles on the road to success:
> crashing,
> > > bonking, and getting dehydrated. Lance Armstrong lost over six kilograms
> of
> > > body weight between waking up and finishing Stage 12 yesterday, all of
> it
> > > fluid. That's 8% of his body weight! The fact that he lost some of his
> power
> > > was understandable, and the facts he rode as well as he did yesterday
> and
> > > today are remarkable.
> > >
> > > Of a cyclist's three main obstacles, crashing is sometimes preferable
> > > because if it is a minor fall, once you chase back on you can continue
> > > racing at full power. On the hand, once you run out of either fuel
> (bonking)
> > > or fluids (dehydration), there's no way to regain your power until you
> > > replenish what you're missing. A 2% loss of body weight due to
> dehydration
> > > leads to a 10-15% drop in sustainable power. If you lose 5-8% of your
> body
> > > weight, you can lose at least 20% of your power. Such extreme fluid loss
> > > also puts you at serious risk for heat exhaustion, a condition
> characterized
> > > by a rise in core temperature due to a decreased ability to cool the
> body
> > > through sweating.
> > >
> > > Dehydration has other, more far-reaching effects on performance as well.
> In
> > > an effort to continue racing at high speed, a dehydrated rider has to
> dig
> > > very deep and expend more energy per unit time than normal. That means
> that
> > > even though Lance was slower than usual during Stage 12, his effort
> level
> > > was higher than normal. Recovering from such an effort, and replenishing
> his
> > > lost fluids, takes time.
> > >
> > > Lance Armstrong knew today was going to be tough. Your body is more
> > > efficient at pulling fluids out of your body than it is replenishing
> them.
> > > It takes more than 24 hours to recover from dehydrating to the extent he
> > > did, no matter how much you drink. Following Stage 12, Lance consumed a
> lot
> > > of water and a lot of sports drink in an effort to regain the fluids,
> > > electrolytes, and energy he lost earlier in the day. By this morning,
> his
> > > waking body weight (measured after using the bathroom) was nearly
> normal,
> > > but he knew he would feel the lingering effects of the ordeal during
> Stage
> > > 13.
> > >
> > > While Lance lacked some of his customary punch today, he diligently
> consumed
> > > fluids throughout the stage and managed to contain his rivals. Finishing
> > > seven seconds down on Jan Ullrich and passing Alexander Vinokorouv in
> the
> > > final 500 meters of the stage was a great performance, all things
> > > considered. Even more encouraging is Lance Armstrong's amazing ability
> to
> > > recover from hard efforts. Part of what makes him a champion is his
> ability
> > > to put in huge efforts on one stage, and then recover to be able to do
> it
> > > again the following day.
> > >
> > > Lance should be able to fully recover from the past two days and have a
> > > strong performance during Stage 14. His goal is still to find
> opportunities
> > > to attack and gain time on Jan Ullrich before Tuesday's rest day. Though
> his
> > > legs may have wavered, Lance's will and character never do, and with a
> > > strong team around him, he knows what he has to do to keep his yellow
> > > jersey.

[dwjones]

this is laughable when i get accused of infringing on copyright. this
article written from chris carmichael did not come from a paid site. it was
in the public domain that anyone could have access to. so lighten up and
take the butt plug out of your ass
"Isidor Gunsberg" > wrote in message
om...
> David Ryan > wrote in message
>...
> > dwjones wrote:
> > >
> > > how did i plagiarize chris carmichael's diary entry? just read the
title to
> > > the post. it is quite clear that the words in my post was his.
> >
> > FFR, it is customary to provide a URL.
> >
> > > "Nick Burns" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "dwjones" > wrote in message
> > > >
> > > > <plagiarized Carmichael diary entry snipped>
> > > >
> > > > Duh. He means that you should give attribution, not an alternative.
> > > >
> > > >
>
>
> Plagiarism is not the issue. Even with full attribution, it is,
> strictly speaking, not legal to simply copy and post the entire piece
> that was written by Carmichael. Doing so goes well beyond "Fair Use".
>
> It is perfectly ethical to cite Carmichael's article, to directly
> quote a few passages, to paraphrase other portions, and to give a link
> to one of the sources. Your copy and paste job goes beyond bounds, and
> infringes on copyright. However, "No harm, no foul", I suppose.....

[dwjones]

then why does it say that he is armstrong's coach in his bio?
"warren" > wrote in message
...
> In article <_bjSa.99668$ye4.71709@sccrnsc01>, dwjones
> > wrote:
>
> > who is better to comment about what had happened and it's effect than
the
> > athlete's own coach.
>
>
> He is not Lance's coach. He is a friend and advisor, and a not very
> expert advisor at that. Lance's association with Chris is more about
> friendship and publicity for Chris's company.
>
> -WG
>
>
> > "David Ryan" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > How about a source besides the brain of Chris Carmichael?
> > >
> > > dwjones wrote:
> > > >
> > > > An elite cyclist has three main obstacles on the road to success:
> > crashing,
> > > > bonking, and getting dehydrated. Lance Armstrong lost over six
kilograms
> > of
> > > > body weight between waking up and finishing Stage 12 yesterday, all
of
> > it
> > > > fluid. That's 8% of his body weight! The fact that he lost some of
his
> > power
> > > > was understandable, and the facts he rode as well as he did
yesterday
> > and
> > > > today are remarkable.
> > > >
> > > > Of a cyclist's three main obstacles, crashing is sometimes
preferable
> > > > because if it is a minor fall, once you chase back on you can
continue
> > > > racing at full power. On the hand, once you run out of either fuel
> > (bonking)
> > > > or fluids (dehydration), there's no way to regain your power until
you
> > > > replenish what you're missing. A 2% loss of body weight due to
> > dehydration
> > > > leads to a 10-15% drop in sustainable power. If you lose 5-8% of
your
> > body
> > > > weight, you can lose at least 20% of your power. Such extreme fluid
loss
> > > > also puts you at serious risk for heat exhaustion, a condition
> > characterized
> > > > by a rise in core temperature due to a decreased ability to cool the
> > body
> > > > through sweating.
> > > >
> > > > Dehydration has other, more far-reaching effects on performance as
well.
> > In
> > > > an effort to continue racing at high speed, a dehydrated rider has
to
> > dig
> > > > very deep and expend more energy per unit time than normal. That
means
> > that
> > > > even though Lance was slower than usual during Stage 12, his effort
> > level
> > > > was higher than normal. Recovering from such an effort, and
replenishing
> > his
> > > > lost fluids, takes time.
> > > >
> > > > Lance Armstrong knew today was going to be tough. Your body is more
> > > > efficient at pulling fluids out of your body than it is replenishing
> > them.
> > > > It takes more than 24 hours to recover from dehydrating to the
extent he
> > > > did, no matter how much you drink. Following Stage 12, Lance
consumed a
> > lot
> > > > of water and a lot of sports drink in an effort to regain the
fluids,
> > > > electrolytes, and energy he lost earlier in the day. By this
morning,
> > his
> > > > waking body weight (measured after using the bathroom) was nearly
> > normal,
> > > > but he knew he would feel the lingering effects of the ordeal during
> > Stage
> > > > 13.
> > > >
> > > > While Lance lacked some of his customary punch today, he diligently
> > consumed
> > > > fluids throughout the stage and managed to contain his rivals.
Finishing
> > > > seven seconds down on Jan Ullrich and passing Alexander Vinokorouv
in
> > the
> > > > final 500 meters of the stage was a great performance, all things
> > > > considered. Even more encouraging is Lance Armstrong's amazing
ability
> > to
> > > > recover from hard efforts. Part of what makes him a champion is his
> > ability
> > > > to put in huge efforts on one stage, and then recover to be able to
do
> > it
> > > > again the following day.
> > > >
> > > > Lance should be able to fully recover from the past two days and
have a
> > > > strong performance during Stage 14. His goal is still to find
> > opportunities
> > > > to attack and gain time on Jan Ullrich before Tuesday's rest day.
Though
> > his
> > > > legs may have wavered, Lance's will and character never do, and with
a
> > > > strong team around him, he knows what he has to do to keep his
yellow
> > > > jersey.

[Nick Burns]

"dwjones" > wrote in message
news:E%mSa.101692$Ph3.11394@sccrnsc04...
> this is laughable when i get accused of infringing on copyright.

You mean like a joke?

this
> article written from chris carmichael did not come from a paid site. it
was
> in the public domain that anyone could have access to. so lighten up and
> take the butt plug out of your ass
> "Isidor Gunsberg" > wrote in message
> om...
> > David Ryan > wrote in message
> >...
> > > dwjones wrote:
> > > >
> > > > how did i plagiarize chris carmichael's diary entry? just read the
> title to
> > > > the post. it is quite clear that the words in my post was his.
> > >
> > > FFR, it is customary to provide a URL.
> > >
> > > > "Nick Burns" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > "dwjones" > wrote in message
> > > > >
> > > > > <plagiarized Carmichael diary entry snipped>
> > > > >
> > > > > Duh. He means that you should give attribution, not an
alternative.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> >
> >
> > Plagiarism is not the issue. Even with full attribution, it is,
> > strictly speaking, not legal to simply copy and post the entire piece
> > that was written by Carmichael. Doing so goes well beyond "Fair Use".
> >
> > It is perfectly ethical to cite Carmichael's article, to directly
> > quote a few passages, to paraphrase other portions, and to give a link
> > to one of the sources. Your copy and paste job goes beyond bounds, and
> > infringes on copyright. However, "No harm, no foul", I suppose.....
>
>

[Raptor]

Steve D wrote:
> So Lance was the only one to dehydrate? And no won else did?
> We've all read about how he is meticulous in his preparation. How
> could this have happened? Nobody to bring him any bottles?...
>
> Steve

He bonked on that climb in 1999. I wonder how many other top cyclists
have these occasional ****-ups.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we could to protect
our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security."
--Microsoft VP in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

[Raptor]

warren wrote:
> For yourself, listen very carefully to what CC says about Lance's
> training. Nearly all of the time he simply reports what Lance is doing.
> He never/rarely mentions who told him what to do for training. And
> watch him on the "prerace" shows and how he struggles to provide the
> details of Lance's preparation. It's not surprising to me that CC
> always looks so nervous on that show.

That fits, but I assigned it to confidentiality. And a lot of
discomfort with Kirsten Gum. :-)

> You could also read the Ferrari interviews on cyclingnews.com and get
> some hints about his involvement with Lance's training plans and where
> he gets them.
>
> -WG

CC is a former rider and coach, not an M.D.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we could to protect
our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security."
--Microsoft VP in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

[Isidor Gunsberg]

"dwjones" > wrote in message news:<E%mSa.101692$Ph3.11394@sccrnsc04>...
> this is laughable when i get accused of infringing on copyright. this
> article written from chris carmichael did not come from a paid site. it was
> in the public domain that anyone could have access to. so lighten up and
> take the butt plug out of your ass

A little defensive aren't you? You obviously are completely
ignorant when it comes to knowledge about copyright.

Hint: just because something is "free" on the Internet does not
give you the right to post it where you will.

Once a work is created, the composer of that work automatically
holds the copyright.

Why don't you try publishing a Cycling Magazine comprised of Free
content that you gleaned from the Web? Then you'll probably get a
better idea of Copyright.



> "Isidor Gunsberg" > wrote in message
> om...
> > David Ryan > wrote in message
> >...
> > > dwjones wrote:
> > > >
> > > > how did i plagiarize chris carmichael's diary entry? just read the
> title to
> > > > the post. it is quite clear that the words in my post was his.
> > >
> > > FFR, it is customary to provide a URL.
> > >
> > > > "Nick Burns" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > "dwjones" > wrote in message
> > > > >
> > > > > <plagiarized Carmichael diary entry snipped>
> > > > >
> > > > > Duh. He means that you should give attribution, not an alternative.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> >
> >
> > Plagiarism is not the issue. Even with full attribution, it is,
> > strictly speaking, not legal to simply copy and post the entire piece
> > that was written by Carmichael. Doing so goes well beyond "Fair Use".
> >
> > It is perfectly ethical to cite Carmichael's article, to directly
> > quote a few passages, to paraphrase other portions, and to give a link
> > to one of the sources. Your copy and paste job goes beyond bounds, and
> > infringes on copyright. However, "No harm, no foul", I suppose.....

[Carl Sundquist]

"Raptor" > wrote in message ...
> warren wrote:
> > For yourself, listen very carefully to what CC says about Lance's
> > training. Nearly all of the time he simply reports what Lance is doing.
> > He never/rarely mentions who told him what to do for training. And
> > watch him on the "prerace" shows and how he struggles to provide the
> > details of Lance's preparation. It's not surprising to me that CC
> > always looks so nervous on that show.
>
> That fits, but I assigned it to confidentiality. And a lot of
> discomfort with Kirsten Gum. :-)
>
> > You could also read the Ferrari interviews on cyclingnews.com and get
> > some hints about his involvement with Lance's training plans and where
> > he gets them.
> >
> > -WG
>
> CC is a former rider and coach, not an M.D.
>

Though it is very unlikely that they are involved in his coaching, both his
father and brother are M.D.s.

[Nick Burns]

"warren" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Nick Burns
> > wrote:
>
> > "warren" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > In article <_bjSa.99668$ye4.71709@sccrnsc01>, dwjones
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > who is better to comment about what had happened and it's effect
than
> > the
> > > > athlete's own coach.
> > >
> >
> > You may not respect Chris Carmichael, but if both he and Lance state
that
> > Lance is his client, I find it amazing that anyone would argue the
point.
> > Why does anyone else other than those two get to define what their
> > relationship is? Not only that, Chris Carmichael coaches many athletes
and
> > met Lance at when he was the coach at the National Coach.
> >
> > I suppose if you had information that Lance gets his coaching
instructions
> > from someone other than Chris, you would certainly be entitled to
mention
> > that, but you don't have that now, do you?
>
> I do have that information, and more too, but I won't mention the
> details. Trust me, Chris is fully aware that he doesn't know enough to
> be the one prescribing training plans for a rider of Lance's caliber or
> even a rider a fair bit below that level.
>
> For yourself, listen very carefully to what CC says about Lance's
> training. Nearly all of the time he simply reports what Lance is doing.
> He never/rarely mentions who told him what to do for training. And
> watch him on the "prerace" shows and how he struggles to provide the
> details of Lance's preparation. It's not surprising to me that CC
> always looks so nervous on that show.
>
> You could also read the Ferrari interviews on cyclingnews.com and get
> some hints about his involvement with Lance's training plans and where
> he gets them.
>
> -WG
>
>
> > > He is not Lance's coach. He is a friend and advisor, and a not very
> > > expert advisor at that. Lance's association with Chris is more about
> > > friendship and publicity for Chris's company.
> > >
> > > -WG


He is a coach. I am sure both of them consult with Ferrari, but the daily
coaching duties are done by CC.

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

"dwjones" > wrote in message
news:NwiSa.101463$H17.31189@sccrnsc02...
> An elite cyclist has three main obstacles

Do you have permission to post this material?

JT

--
*******************************************
NB: reply-to address is munged

Visit http://www.jt10000.com
*******************************************

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

"dwjones" > wrote in message
news:E%mSa.101692$Ph3.11394@sccrnsc04...
> this is laughable when i get accused of
> infringing on copyright.
> this article written from chris carmichael
> did not come from a paid site. it was
> in the public domain that anyone could have access to.

That's bull**** about your not infringing copyright.

Just because something is on the world wide web does not mean it is in
the public domain. Just because a website does not charge for
material does not mean it is legal or ethical to take material from
it. It's wrong.

It's also almost certainly a violation of your ISP's terms of service.

JT

[Nick Burns]

"Raptor" > wrote in message ...
> Steve D wrote:
> > So Lance was the only one to dehydrate? And no won else did?
> > We've all read about how he is meticulous in his preparation. How
> > could this have happened? Nobody to bring him any bottles?...
> >
> > Steve
>
> He bonked on that climb in 1999. I wonder how many other top cyclists
> have these occasional ****-ups.
>
> --
> --
> Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
> "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we could to protect
> our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security."
> --Microsoft VP in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.


All.

[Nick Burns]

"warren" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Nick Burns
> > wrote:
>
> > "warren" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > In article >, Nick Burns
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > "warren" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > In article <_bjSa.99668$ye4.71709@sccrnsc01>, dwjones
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > who is better to comment about what had happened and it's effect
> > than
> > > > the
> > > > > > athlete's own coach.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > You may not respect Chris Carmichael, but if both he and Lance state
> > that
> > > > Lance is his client, I find it amazing that anyone would argue the
> > point.
> > > > Why does anyone else other than those two get to define what their
> > > > relationship is? Not only that, Chris Carmichael coaches many
athletes
> > and
> > > > met Lance at when he was the coach at the National Coach.
> > > >
> > > > I suppose if you had information that Lance gets his coaching
> > instructions
> > > > from someone other than Chris, you would certainly be entitled to
> > mention
> > > > that, but you don't have that now, do you?
> > >
> > > I do have that information, and more too, but I won't mention the
> > > details. Trust me, Chris is fully aware that he doesn't know enough to
> > > be the one prescribing training plans for a rider of Lance's caliber
or
> > > even a rider a fair bit below that level.
> > >
> > > For yourself, listen very carefully to what CC says about Lance's
> > > training. Nearly all of the time he simply reports what Lance is
doing.
> > > He never/rarely mentions who told him what to do for training. And
> > > watch him on the "prerace" shows and how he struggles to provide the
> > > details of Lance's preparation. It's not surprising to me that CC
> > > always looks so nervous on that show.
> > >
> > > You could also read the Ferrari interviews on cyclingnews.com and get
> > > some hints about his involvement with Lance's training plans and where
> > > he gets them.
> > >
> > > -WG
> > >
> > >
> > > > > He is not Lance's coach. He is a friend and advisor, and a not
very
> > > > > expert advisor at that. Lance's association with Chris is more
about
> > > > > friendship and publicity for Chris's company.
> > > > >
> > > > > -WG
> >
> >
> > He is a coach... but the daily coaching duties are done by CC.
>
> Nope. Absolutely wrong.
>
> -WG

Source?

[warren]

In article >, Nick Burns
> wrote:

> "warren" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >, Nick Burns
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > "warren" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > In article >, Nick Burns
> > > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > "warren" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > In article <_bjSa.99668$ye4.71709@sccrnsc01>, dwjones
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > who is better to comment about what had happened and it's effect
> > > than
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > athlete's own coach.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You may not respect Chris Carmichael, but if both he and Lance state
> > > that
> > > > > Lance is his client, I find it amazing that anyone would argue the
> > > point.
> > > > > Why does anyone else other than those two get to define what their
> > > > > relationship is? Not only that, Chris Carmichael coaches many
> athletes
> > > and
> > > > > met Lance at when he was the coach at the National Coach.
> > > > >
> > > > > I suppose if you had information that Lance gets his coaching
> > > instructions
> > > > > from someone other than Chris, you would certainly be entitled to
> > > mention
> > > > > that, but you don't have that now, do you?
> > > >
> > > > I do have that information, and more too, but I won't mention the
> > > > details. Trust me, Chris is fully aware that he doesn't know enough to
> > > > be the one prescribing training plans for a rider of Lance's caliber
> or
> > > > even a rider a fair bit below that level.
> > > >
> > > > For yourself, listen very carefully to what CC says about Lance's
> > > > training. Nearly all of the time he simply reports what Lance is
> doing.
> > > > He never/rarely mentions who told him what to do for training. And
> > > > watch him on the "prerace" shows and how he struggles to provide the
> > > > details of Lance's preparation. It's not surprising to me that CC
> > > > always looks so nervous on that show.
> > > >
> > > > You could also read the Ferrari interviews on cyclingnews.com and get
> > > > some hints about his involvement with Lance's training plans and where
> > > > he gets them.
> > > >
> > > > -WG
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > He is not Lance's coach. He is a friend and advisor, and a not
> very
> > > > > > expert advisor at that. Lance's association with Chris is more
> about
> > > > > > friendship and publicity for Chris's company.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -WG
> > >
> > >
> > > He is a coach... but the daily coaching duties are done by CC.
> >
> > Nope. Absolutely wrong.
> >
> > -WG
>
> Source?

I won't betray that confidence.

-WG

[Kurgan Gringioni]

"warren" > wrote in message
...
> > > >
> > > > He is a coach... but the daily coaching duties are done by CC.
> > >
> > > Nope. Absolutely wrong.
> > >
> > > -WG
> >
> > Source?
>
> I won't betray that confidence.



Is this the same person who told you pros don't use bodyfat as fuel?


From: warren )
Subject: Re: Fat as fuel


View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Date: 2003-05-03 17:46:41 PST

>And how many days in a row do you think a pro can do this?
>
>And while their body is trying to get some energy from their bodyfat
>because of insufficient dietary fat, glucose, and glycogen, how much
>muscle tissue is cannibalized for its protein?
>
>Still wanna go with the idea of a pro relying on bodyfat for some fuel?
>
>-WG

[warren]

In article >, Kurgan
Gringioni > wrote:

> Is this the same person who told you pros don't use bodyfat as fuel?

As fuel for what?

-WG

[Kurgan Gringioni]

"warren" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Kurgan
> Gringioni > wrote:
>
> > Is this the same person who told you pros don't use bodyfat as fuel?
>
> As fuel for what?


riding in a stage race.



From: warren )
Subject: Re: Fat as fuel


View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Date: 2003-05-03 17:46:41 PST

>And how many days in a row do you think a pro can do this?
>
>And while their body is trying to get some energy from their bodyfat
>because of insufficient dietary fat, glucose, and glycogen, how much
>muscle tissue is cannibalized for its protein?
>
>Still wanna go with the idea of a pro relying on bodyfat for some fuel?
>
>-WG

[warren]

In article >, Kurgan
Gringioni > wrote:

> "warren" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >, Kurgan
> > Gringioni > wrote:
> >
> > > Is this the same person who told you pros don't use bodyfat as fuel?
> >
> > As fuel for what?
>
>
> riding in a stage race.

Ah yes. They replenish their body fat each day which can provide enough
to get through the event, or maybe there isn't enough that's readily
available and they get tired.

-WG
>
>
>
> From: warren )
> Subject: Re: Fat as fuel
>
>
> View this article only
> Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
> Date: 2003-05-03 17:46:41 PST
>
> >And how many days in a row do you think a pro can do this?
> >
> >And while their body is trying to get some energy from their bodyfat
> >because of insufficient dietary fat, glucose, and glycogen, how much
> >muscle tissue is cannibalized for its protein?
> >
> >Still wanna go with the idea of a pro relying on bodyfat for some fuel?
> >
> >-WG

[warren]

In article >, Nick Burns
> wrote:


> It seems to me that you already have. Are you certain that your "source"
> does not mind you publishing your opinion? It seems like you often are
> slamming Carmichael and you report (seemingly) every conversation you have
> with Max Testa.

The two aren't related and I don't talk about most of the stuff that I
talk with Max about. I only mention stuff that seems relevant to a
discussion. Would you rather I don't contribute useful information if
it comes from Max? I attribute the source of the information so that
people don't get an impression that I came up with the idea myself.

> It also seems that you are not impressed with Carmichael
> since he is not an MD and "not smart enough" to add value to the coaching
> services that Mr. Armstrong requires.

I've never said anything about what not having an MD means for
Carmichael.

> Different athletes have different requirements and expectations from a
> coach. Even if the only thing Carmichael ever did was to reformat the
> instructions he gets from Ferrari and organize the data from Lance's SRM and
> other gear, that still constitutes a coaching relationship.

Chris is _encouraged_ to represent that he is prescribing Lance's
training as a means to bolster his own credibility. The problem is that
he isn't qualified or knowledgable enough to prescribe accurate
training for a rider of Lance's caliber, and to his credit, Chris
acknowledges this (not in public). I don't think it's right to
perpetuate the idea that he is that qualified. I've also said that he
is Lance's advisor and I think he's probably more comfortable with that
title too.

This doesn't mean that many cyclists can't get plenty of valuable
advice from Chris or his associates and yesterday I said that he and
his company have done some positive things WRT increasing public
awareness about the benefits of professional coaching. IOW, Chris can
still provide valuable services without being Lance's "coach". It's
also bad PR for Lance to be closely associated with Ferrari.

Someone from Italy tells me that many amateur racers or just
recreational cyclists in Italy will pay (although not much) for
coaching services but in America it is the exception rather than the
rule, so UC Davis Medical Center set up a program to offer performance
testing that is easily accessible, and affordable. They also do many
free clinics per month as a public service and to encourage people to
learn more about their own sports performance training.

I think it's good that CTS has encouraged many people to at least try
professional coaching who may have otherwise never considered it. I
also hope that there will also be a resulting increase in business for
the non-CTS coaches who are good at their craft.

-WG

[warren]

In article k.net>,
Andy Coggan > wrote:

> "warren" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > Chris is _encouraged_ to represent that he is prescribing Lance's
> > training as a means to bolster his own credibility. The problem is that
> > he isn't qualified or knowledgable enough to prescribe accurate
> > training for a rider of Lance's caliber, and to his credit, Chris
> > acknowledges this (not in public). I don't think it's right to
> > perpetuate the idea that he is that qualified.
>
> So what *would* make him qualified, in your opinion?

The pertinent fact is that Lance wants the MOST qualified person he can
get.

Lance has access to people who have much more experience than Chris WRT
coaching/training world class cyclists and people who have a better
understanding of the related physiology.

> Seems to me that he has
> the necessary (??) "elite athlete" credentials based on his time spent
> riding for 7-11, as well as plenty of practical experience coaching elite
> athletes (as former national team coach).

Chris and Lance know that's not enough to meet Lance's needs or the
needs of some other people who want the best coaching (most
knowledgeable person) that is available.

I think the public should know that CC is ONE of Lance's coaches-which
I think is a relevant difference from saying he IS Lance's coach.

-WG

[warren]

In article >, chris
> wrote:

> Sorry you missed my point. For the record, Chris and Lance have been
> together since he was 18 (ie, a junior). Pick up a copy of his book
> and you'll understand Carmichael's relationship with LA.

But during the time Max was coaching Motorola he was the one
prescribing most of Lance's training, not his friend Chris. Just a
small point in time though. Maybe you were talking more about other
aspects of helpful support and guidance for Lance.(?) I agree that
without Chris Lance wouldn't be near what he is today.

Co-incidentally, when it was announced that Beloki broke his leg I
remembered that Chris's racing career ended that way.

-WG


> In article >, chris
> > wrote:
>
> > While there are plenty of good coaches who could probably bring Lance
> > to form for the Tour, not many could have brought Lance through the
> > ranks of junior cyclist to professional.
>
> AFAIK, Chris didn't do that. Other people did. What was your point here?
>
> -WG

[Carl Sundquist]

"warren" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, chris
> > wrote:
>
> > Sorry you missed my point. For the record, Chris and Lance have been
> > together since he was 18 (ie, a junior). Pick up a copy of his book
> > and you'll understand Carmichael's relationship with LA.
>
> But during the time Max was coaching Motorola he was the one
> prescribing most of Lance's training, not his friend Chris. Just a
> small point in time though. Maybe you were talking more about other
> aspects of helpful support and guidance for Lance.(?) I agree that
> without Chris Lance wouldn't be near what he is today.
>
> Co-incidentally, when it was announced that Beloki broke his leg I
> remembered that Chris's racing career ended that way.
>
> -WG
>

Lance was 18 in 1989 (last year Junior). IIRC he was second in Jr Worlds,
hammering most of the day on what can be considered a constantly undulating
course. People back then commented on his strength and potential.

However, Carmichael was nowhere near the radar screen as far as US national
coaches go that year. Rene Wenzel was Jr coach back then, I'm almost sure. I
know he was in 1990. As for the men's road coach, there really was no main
leader. Mark The ****ing Asshole Hodges was coaching director and run out on
a rail after 1989. Men's road coaching duties fell on a variety of
shoulders, including Jarek Bek and Jiri Mainus. At the time, pretty much
anyone who would sacrifice themselves and their time for **** pay. After Mr.
'No One Is Indispensable' Hodges was shown the door, Mark Gorski was given
the job of coaching director and he was likely instrumental in hiring
Carmichael, who AFAIK had little coaching experience before taking the USCF
job.

Chris was still riding for Schwinn as late as 1988, and possibly 1989.

According to olntv.com:

"In 1997, he [Carmichael] joined the Union Cycliste Internationale, the
international governing body for cycling headquartered in Lausanne,
Switzerland, as Olympic Solidarity Coaching Instructor."

What's an Olympic Solidarity Coaching Instructor?