nice to be back

[Joshua Goldberg]

Just noticed the lack of politics & swearing here...Ahhhhh how nice, be nice
if it stays this way. Life really really sucks and it is nice to visit a
message board of people who share a common interest who can drift in and ask
about a BB or spoke gauge and not have to deal with Twerps who accuse them
of sleeping with their mother or are sheep fanciers or that they are merely
tools of the red or yellow menace.

Was thinking, a few days ago someone asked me why I started riding
recumbents and I had to think about it. I could have listed all the classic
reasons everyone tosses out to explain why bents are so good, but my reply
was this.

When I was a little kid I saw a Red pedal Go-Kart and I wanted one.
One of my playmates got one and I wanted one too...went through holding my
breath, crying, torturing the cocker spaniel my mom loved, trashed my room
and finally emptied my piggy bank and went off and bought one. Got home and
my mom took it back to the store...I hated her for that.

My mom kept saying that I was too young and I would just end up hurting
myself and she was protecting me cause she loved me (almost as much as her
damn cocker spaniel).

So...27 years ago I bought my first recumbent, a nice Yellow Tadpole and I
took it out and flipped it at 30 mph. Over the next several months I was
seeing the inside of ambulances so often the para medics figured I was
either the most unlucky cyclist in history or I had a fetish for Saline I-V
Drips.

So I guess I got into recubment trikes because my mother thought I'd hurt
myself on a pedal Go-Kart....she was probably quite right.

Not quite sure why I got 16 more bents after the tadpole, but I reckon I was
determined to prove that EVENTUALLY I would find the perfect bent that I did
not have near death experiences on..but I also came to the conclusion that I
would likely miss facing my own demise on every ride, I'd miss the Rush and
the feeling that I get when I complete a ride and think....WOW I made it
through THAT mine field of stupid car drivers in one piece.

Joshua
******

[rocketman]

"Joshua Goldberg" > wrote in message
...
> Just noticed the lack of politics & swearing here...Ahhhhh how nice, be
> nice if it stays this way. Life really really sucks and it is nice to
> visit a message board of people who share a common interest who can drift
> in and ask about a BB or spoke gauge and not have to deal with Twerps who
> accuse them of sleeping with their mother or are sheep fanciers or that
> they are merely tools of the red or yellow menace.
>
> Was thinking, a few days ago someone asked me why I started riding
> recumbents and I had to think about it. I could have listed all the
> classic reasons everyone tosses out to explain why bents are so good, but
> my reply was this.
>
> When I was a little kid I saw a Red pedal Go-Kart and I wanted one.
> One of my playmates got one and I wanted one too...went through holding my
> breath, crying, torturing the cocker spaniel my mom loved, trashed my room
> and finally emptied my piggy bank and went off and bought one. Got home
> and my mom took it back to the store...I hated her for that.
>
> My mom kept saying that I was too young and I would just end up hurting
> myself and she was protecting me cause she loved me (almost as much as her
> damn cocker spaniel).
>
> So...27 years ago I bought my first recumbent, a nice Yellow Tadpole and I
> took it out and flipped it at 30 mph. Over the next several months I was
> seeing the inside of ambulances so often the para medics figured I was
> either the most unlucky cyclist in history or I had a fetish for Saline
> I-V Drips.
>
> So I guess I got into recubment trikes because my mother thought I'd hurt
> myself on a pedal Go-Kart....she was probably quite right.
>
> Not quite sure why I got 16 more bents after the tadpole, but I reckon I
> was determined to prove that EVENTUALLY I would find the perfect bent that
> I did not have near death experiences on..but I also came to the
> conclusion that I would likely miss facing my own demise on every ride,
> I'd miss the Rush and the feeling that I get when I complete a ride and
> think....WOW I made it through THAT mine field of stupid car drivers in
> one piece.
>
> Joshua
> ******

Welcome back, Joshua. Great story. I had no idea how much you bled in the
name of early recumbent technology! Who was selling tadpole trikes in 1978?
Was it a Masa Slingshot? The first tadpole trike I ever saw was the one I
bought used almost 8 years ago (and recently sold), which dated back to the
late 1980's. If I had known they existed back '78, it would have been hard
to choose between a tadpole trike and my Ohio Scientific Superboard II
microcomputer ($325 with the 8k memory upgrade). Ah, that was a great year.

We have something in common: go-kart envy. My dad, not a mean person; but
sometimes terribly insensitive, had a go-kart that we were allowed to ride.
One detail: It had no engine. So we had to push each other around. Hey,
it was good exercise, and taught us to cooperate and to share the toys.
Well, it taught me to cooperate. I'm not so sure about my sister.

Anyway, when I finally did get to ride a real go-kart, I was hooked. But I
also loved bikes, and cars. Maybe that's why I now ride a beautiful 2005
Catrike Speed, my "pedalled go-kart," and drive a 2000 BMW Z3 Roadster,
which "corners like a go-kart."

Looking forward to reading more of your wonderful stories.

R

[Tom Sherman]

rocketman (B.S.) wrote:

> Welcome back, Joshua. Great story. I had no idea how much you bled in the
> name of early recumbent technology! Who was selling tadpole trikes in 1978?
> Was it a Masa Slingshot?...

Here is a picture of a Masa Slingshot for those who have not seen one
<http://home.mindspring.com/~kb7mxu/images/slingshot.jpg>.

--
Tom Sherman - Earth

[Mark Leuck]

"Joshua Goldberg" > wrote in message
...
>
> So...27 years ago I bought my first recumbent, a nice Yellow Tadpole and I
> took it out and flipped it at 30 mph. Over the next several months I was
> seeing the inside of ambulances so often the para medics figured I was
> either the most unlucky cyclist in history or I had a fetish for Saline
I-V
> Drips.

Damn, how well did the yellow tadpole fare?

[Mark Leuck]

"Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
...
> rocketman (B.S.) wrote:
>
> > Welcome back, Joshua. Great story. I had no idea how much you bled in
the
> > name of early recumbent technology! Who was selling tadpole trikes in
1978?
> > Was it a Masa Slingshot?...
>
> Here is a picture of a Masa Slingshot for those who have not seen one
> <http://home.mindspring.com/~kb7mxu/images/slingshot.jpg>.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Earth

I almost like that one better than most current trikes, is that a primative
bumper on the front?

[rocketman]

"Mark Leuck" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
> ...
>> rocketman (B.S.) wrote:
>>
>> > Welcome back, Joshua. Great story. I had no idea how much you bled in
> the
>> > name of early recumbent technology! Who was selling tadpole trikes in
> 1978?
>> > Was it a Masa Slingshot?...
>>
>> Here is a picture of a Masa Slingshot for those who have not seen one
>> <http://home.mindspring.com/~kb7mxu/images/slingshot.jpg>.
>>
>> --
>> Tom Sherman - Earth
>
> I almost like that one better than most current trikes, is that a
> primative
> bumper on the front?

Looks like a triple-purpose device: Bumper, airfoil and snow blade :-)

I agree that the Masa was an interesting design. If I ever see one used for
reasonable $$ I'll probably buy it.

Sometime I wish my Catrike Speed had a longer wheelbase like the Masa trike.
Catrike steering can be, ahh, rather "thrilling" at times.

R

[Dave Larrington]

rocketman wrote:

> Sometime I wish my Catrike Speed had a longer wheelbase like the Masa
> trike. Catrike steering can be, ahh, rather "thrilling" at times.

By all accounts that of the Masa was something more than thrilling.
"Borderline dangerous" being one description...

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)

[Mark Leuck]

I imagine turning the thing with that long frame would be similar to turning
a top fuel dragster, still I like the looks

"Dave Larrington" > wrote in message
...
> rocketman wrote:
>
> > Sometime I wish my Catrike Speed had a longer wheelbase like the Masa
> > trike. Catrike steering can be, ahh, rather "thrilling" at times.
>
> By all accounts that of the Masa was something more than thrilling.
> "Borderline dangerous" being one description...
>
> --
>
> Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
> World Domination?
> Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
> floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)
>
>

[Dave Larrington]

Mark Leuck wrote:

> I imagine turning the thing with that long frame would be similar to
> turning a top fuel dragster, still I like the looks

I think it was more that having the wheels stuck out the front made it
rather more prone to rolling than the current breed of tadpole trike.

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)

[Dex]

On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 20:15:33 -0500, "Joshua Goldberg"
> wrote:

>Just noticed the lack of politics & swearing here...Ahhhhh how nice, be nice
>if it stays this way. Life really really sucks and it is nice to visit a
>message board of people who share a common interest who can drift in and ask
>about a BB or spoke gauge and not have to deal with Twerps who accuse them
>of sleeping with their mother or are sheep fanciers or that they are merely
>tools of the red or yellow menace.
>
>Was thinking, a few days ago someone asked me why I started riding
>recumbents and I had to think about it. I could have listed all the classic
>reasons everyone tosses out to explain why bents are so good, but my reply
>was this.
>
>When I was a little kid I saw a Red pedal Go-Kart and I wanted one.
>One of my playmates got one and I wanted one too...went through holding my
>breath, crying, torturing the cocker spaniel my mom loved, trashed my room
>and finally emptied my piggy bank and went off and bought one. Got home and
>my mom took it back to the store...I hated her for that.
>
>My mom kept saying that I was too young and I would just end up hurting
>myself and she was protecting me cause she loved me (almost as much as her
>damn cocker spaniel).
>
>So...27 years ago I bought my first recumbent, a nice Yellow Tadpole and I
>took it out and flipped it at 30 mph. Over the next several months I was
>seeing the inside of ambulances so often the para medics figured I was
>either the most unlucky cyclist in history or I had a fetish for Saline I-V
>Drips.
>
>So I guess I got into recubment trikes because my mother thought I'd hurt
>myself on a pedal Go-Kart....she was probably quite right.
>
>Not quite sure why I got 16 more bents after the tadpole, but I reckon I was
>determined to prove that EVENTUALLY I would find the perfect bent that I did
>not have near death experiences on..but I also came to the conclusion that I
>would likely miss facing my own demise on every ride, I'd miss the Rush and
>the feeling that I get when I complete a ride and think....WOW I made it
>through THAT mine field of stupid car drivers in one piece.
>
>Joshua
>******
>


I really like riding recumbents, I have a Vision V40 SWB - USS and a
Rans Screamer Tandem.
I find if I lose a pedal while spinning, it can spell disaster. Once
coasting down a steep hill on a bike trail, I decided to start
pedaling again. I shifted up a couple of notches, and started to spin
the cranks again. My foot slipped off one of the pedals, and it
upset my balance and I swerved off the trail into some soft dirt on
the shoulder. I had to brake hard to try to save a spill. The front
wheel locked up, I did part of an endo that flipped me over the front
of the bike, and I landed running. My legs couldn't keep up and I
fell to the ground quite hard. Luckily, I only scratched the back of
my hand, and the bike was undamaged.
Anyone else have any similar experiences?
Dex Henschel

[Dave Larrington]

Dex wrote:

> I find if I lose a pedal while spinning, it can spell disaster. Once
> coasting down a steep hill on a bike trail, I decided to start
> pedaling again. I shifted up a couple of notches, and started to spin
> the cranks again. My foot slipped off one of the pedals, and it
> upset my balance and I swerved off the trail into some soft dirt on
> the shoulder. I had to brake hard to try to save a spill. The front
> wheel locked up, I did part of an endo that flipped me over the front
> of the bike, and I landed running. My legs couldn't keep up and I
> fell to the ground quite hard. Luckily, I only scratched the back of
> my hand, and the bike was undamaged.
> Anyone else have any similar experiences?

Say after me:

Clipless pedals are an absolute necessity on a recumbent...

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)

[Peter Clinch]

Dex wrote:

> I find if I lose a pedal while spinning, it can spell disaster.

<snip>

> Anyone else have any similar experiences?

No, because I use clipless pedals, and highly recommend that other
recumbent riders do likewise. Not only is it safer (for the reasons you
outlined, plus virtually impossible to get leg suck) but it means no
effort is required to hold your feet in place (potentially an issue with
relatively high bottom brackets compared to the seat). And they're also
more efficient for pedalling, which means less work.

Unless you have some particular problem with clipless for some reason
(e.g., you can't twist at your ankles for some reason so can't release)
there really aren't too many good reasons not to use them.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Mark Leuck]

"Dex" > wrote in message
news:1109947682.ca27396c3509371ce5407299167ceab6@t eranews...
>
> I really like riding recumbents, I have a Vision V40 SWB - USS and a
> Rans Screamer Tandem.
> I find if I lose a pedal while spinning, it can spell disaster. Once
> coasting down a steep hill on a bike trail, I decided to start
> pedaling again. I shifted up a couple of notches, and started to spin
> the cranks again. My foot slipped off one of the pedals, and it
> upset my balance and I swerved off the trail into some soft dirt on
> the shoulder. I had to brake hard to try to save a spill. The front
> wheel locked up, I did part of an endo that flipped me over the front
> of the bike, and I landed running. My legs couldn't keep up and I
> fell to the ground quite hard. Luckily, I only scratched the back of
> my hand, and the bike was undamaged.
> Anyone else have any similar experiences?
> Dex Henschel

Almost had that happen, invest in clip-on pedals, not only will your foot
not slip off but you will generate much more power

[Freewheeling]

Dex:

You must've had a "flip-it" stem, right? I can't imagine anything that
fortuitous happening with my fixed stem, although it's fairly unlikely I'd
go over the front anyway, with my weight. But I also use "clipless" pedals,
so my feet aren't very likely to come out.

--Scott

"Dex" > wrote in message
news:1109947682.ca27396c3509371ce5407299167ceab6@t eranews...
> On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 20:15:33 -0500, "Joshua Goldberg"
> > wrote:
>
>>Just noticed the lack of politics & swearing here...Ahhhhh how nice, be
>>nice
>>if it stays this way. Life really really sucks and it is nice to visit a
>>message board of people who share a common interest who can drift in and
>>ask
>>about a BB or spoke gauge and not have to deal with Twerps who accuse them
>>of sleeping with their mother or are sheep fanciers or that they are
>>merely
>>tools of the red or yellow menace.
>>
>>Was thinking, a few days ago someone asked me why I started riding
>>recumbents and I had to think about it. I could have listed all the
>>classic
>>reasons everyone tosses out to explain why bents are so good, but my reply
>>was this.
>>
>>When I was a little kid I saw a Red pedal Go-Kart and I wanted one.
>>One of my playmates got one and I wanted one too...went through holding my
>>breath, crying, torturing the cocker spaniel my mom loved, trashed my room
>>and finally emptied my piggy bank and went off and bought one. Got home
>>and
>>my mom took it back to the store...I hated her for that.
>>
>>My mom kept saying that I was too young and I would just end up hurting
>>myself and she was protecting me cause she loved me (almost as much as her
>>damn cocker spaniel).
>>
>>So...27 years ago I bought my first recumbent, a nice Yellow Tadpole and I
>>took it out and flipped it at 30 mph. Over the next several months I was
>>seeing the inside of ambulances so often the para medics figured I was
>>either the most unlucky cyclist in history or I had a fetish for Saline
>>I-V
>>Drips.
>>
>>So I guess I got into recubment trikes because my mother thought I'd hurt
>>myself on a pedal Go-Kart....she was probably quite right.
>>
>>Not quite sure why I got 16 more bents after the tadpole, but I reckon I
>>was
>>determined to prove that EVENTUALLY I would find the perfect bent that I
>>did
>>not have near death experiences on..but I also came to the conclusion that
>>I
>>would likely miss facing my own demise on every ride, I'd miss the Rush
>>and
>>the feeling that I get when I complete a ride and think....WOW I made it
>>through THAT mine field of stupid car drivers in one piece.
>>
>>Joshua
>>******
>>
>
>
> I really like riding recumbents, I have a Vision V40 SWB - USS and a
> Rans Screamer Tandem.
> I find if I lose a pedal while spinning, it can spell disaster. Once
> coasting down a steep hill on a bike trail, I decided to start
> pedaling again. I shifted up a couple of notches, and started to spin
> the cranks again. My foot slipped off one of the pedals, and it
> upset my balance and I swerved off the trail into some soft dirt on
> the shoulder. I had to brake hard to try to save a spill. The front
> wheel locked up, I did part of an endo that flipped me over the front
> of the bike, and I landed running. My legs couldn't keep up and I
> fell to the ground quite hard. Luckily, I only scratched the back of
> my hand, and the bike was undamaged.
> Anyone else have any similar experiences?
> Dex Henschel

[TrailBarge]

All these guys (below) may well be right, but I've already blown several
grand on my 'bent and going clipless is something I may look into if I feel
like crying. I'd feel like crying because it would be hell for me to find
the equipment. Namely, shoes.

I guess than I am sold enough on clipless if i could get my size 15 feet
into comfortable shoes and pedals for less than $150. (Shaddup... I know
that it's not going to happen).

I'm 6'4", 280 lbs and have big feet. I can't find biking shoes, inline
skates, hiking boots or cars that fit me. If I find gloves that I can
squeeze my hamfisted paws into, I buy 3 pair.

Not meaning (but probably succeeding, anyway) to sound like a sob story, the
point is that I have ridden my 'bent over 2000 miles without mishap...
without clips. I use sneakers in cold weather and Tevas in warm. I don't
have a particularly low BB, either (Burley Canto)... 'bout even with the
seat.

Then again, the numbers above may tell you that I am tour oriented, not
performance. I ride without regard to cadence, carbo loading or schedule.
I stop for pretty views, pretty girls and pretty much anything that takes my
fancy. Perhaps I have never slipped a pedal because I am never pushing
myself to the point where I lose the sprite in my legs enough to make it a
danger.

Sure, clipless would be great... but I'm here to tell you that we need not
get all hyperbolic about them. To me, clipless pedals for 'bents is like
GPS navigation for cars. Cool, desirable, possibly extending your
capability, but ghastly expensive and NOT absolutely necessary.

TrailBarge

-----------------------------------------------------------
Anyone else have any similar experiences?


Say after me: Clipless pedals are an absolute necessity on a recumbent...

No, because I use clipless pedals, and highly recommend that other recumbent
riders do likewise. Not only is it safer (for the reasons you outlined,
plus virtually impossible to get leg suck) but it means no effort is
required to hold your feet in place (potentially an issue with relatively
high bottom brackets compared to the seat). And they're also more efficient
for pedalling, which means less work.

Unless you have some particular problem with clipless for some reason (e.g.,
you can't twist at your ankles for some reason so can't release) there
really aren't too many good reasons not to use them.

Almost had that happen, invest in clip-on pedals, not only will your foot
not slip off but you will generate much more power

But I also use "clipless" pedals, so my feet aren't very likely to come out.

[Peter Clinch]

TrailBarge wrote:

> Then again, the numbers above may tell you that I am tour oriented, not
> performance.

As am I...

> Sure, clipless would be great... but I'm here to tell you that we need not
> get all hyperbolic about them. To me, clipless pedals for 'bents is like
> GPS navigation for cars. Cool, desirable, possibly extending your
> capability, but ghastly expensive and NOT absolutely necessary.

I'd say more like a heater/cool air for cars rather than GPS. You don't
/need/ it, but it makes life easier to the point that it'd be missed if
it wasn't there and you were used to it.

Note that clipless sandals are less size critical than shoes, and with
your soles pointing into the wind anyway and legs in line rather than
directly against it cold feet is less of an issue than on a wedgie. So
maybe those would work for you?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Tom Sherman]

Peter Clinch wrote:

> ...
> Note that clipless sandals are less size critical than shoes, and with
> your soles pointing into the wind anyway and legs in line rather than
> directly against it cold feet is less of an issue than on a wedgie. So
> maybe those would work for you?

In my experience, the combination of sandals, heavy wool socks and
windproof oversocks is warmer than regular cycling shoes with neoprene
covers.

--
Tom Sherman - Earth (Illinois)

[Tom Sherman]

TrailBarge wrote:

> All these guys (below) may well be right, but I've already blown several
> grand on my 'bent and going clipless is something I may look into if I feel
> like crying. I'd feel like crying because it would be hell for me to find
> the equipment. Namely, shoes.
>
> I guess than I am sold enough on clipless if i could get my size 15 feet
> into comfortable shoes and pedals for less than $150. (Shaddup... I know
> that it's not going to happen).
>
> I'm 6'4", 280 lbs and have big feet. I can't find biking shoes, inline
> skates, hiking boots or cars that fit me. If I find gloves that I can
> squeeze my hamfisted paws into, I buy 3 pair.
>
> Not meaning (but probably succeeding, anyway) to sound like a sob story, the
> point is that I have ridden my 'bent over 2000 miles without mishap...
> without clips. I use sneakers in cold weather and Tevas in warm. I don't
> have a particularly low BB, either (Burley Canto)... 'bout even with the
> seat....

Being level with the seat is a low BB. Riding without foot retention
with a BB 20-35 cm above seat level is not a good idea.

Here is a low cost alternative foot retention system that works
reasonably well and does not require special shoes:
<http://powergrips.com/>.

--
Tom Sherman - Earth (Illinois)