Mayo 2nd in 15th stage - bad style?

[Martin Recker]

Mayo took 4 seconds from Ullrich by finishing 2nd today.

After Ullrich waited for him and Armstrong.

Mayo gained some Euros, the seconds are irrelevant - for him. Not for
Ullrich.

Woundn't it have been better style not to outsprint Ullrich after the
crash and the wait?

[Darren S.]

"Martin Recker" > wrote in message
om...
> Mayo took 4 seconds from Ullrich by finishing 2nd today.
>
> After Ullrich waited for him and Armstrong.
>
> Mayo gained some Euros, the seconds are irrelevant - for him. Not for
> Ullrich.
>
> Woundn't it have been better style not to outsprint Ullrich after the
> crash and the wait?

I think so, especially since Mayo sucked his wheel the whole way up.

D.


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[Martin Recker]

"Willowbeauty" > wrote in message >...

> Euskatel are after the highest Spanish team prize

Mayo would have lost nothing in this competition crossing the line as 3rd.

4 seconds are nothing in the best team classification by now.

[Keith]

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:43:15 +0100, Steve McGinty
> wrote:

>On 22 Jul 2003 05:32:39 -0700, (Martin Recker) wrote:
>
>>"Willowbeauty" > wrote in message >...
>>
>>> Euskatel are after the highest Spanish team prize
>>
>>Mayo would have lost nothing in this competition crossing the line as 3rd.
>>
>>4 seconds are nothing in the best team classification by now.
>
>But they could be a lot when the podium is decided on Saturday.

HTF can Mayo hope to be on the podium anyway. He's got no chance.

>
>Regards!
>Stephen

[Brian P]

Nope. Mayo is too far back for 4 seconds to mean anythying. Bad form to
cross before Ullrich. No respect.

"Steve McGinty" > wrote in message
...
> On 22 Jul 2003 05:32:39 -0700, (Martin Recker) wrote:
>
> >"Willowbeauty" > wrote in message
>...
> >
> >> Euskatel are after the highest Spanish team prize
> >
> >Mayo would have lost nothing in this competition crossing the line as
3rd.
> >
> >4 seconds are nothing in the best team classification by now.
>
> But they could be a lot when the podium is decided on Saturday.
>
> Regards!
> Stephen

[Tom Paterson]

>From: Keith

>HTF can Mayo hope to be on the podium >anyway. He's got no chance.

Well, we already saw Daddy Yo-Yo fall down go boom. It's been a year for that.

With a TT and a mountain stage left to go, Mayo is in 5th by 11 seconds to 4th,
to 3rd by 2:40 (math approx.). Every second still counts. I don't think he has
a realistic chance either, but in his place I'd probably do the same, despite
the payback factor.
--Tom Paterson

[Just a Cyclist]

It will come back to bite him later........you'll see........maybe even as
soon as tomorrow
"Brian P" > wrote in message
t...
> Nope. Mayo is too far back for 4 seconds to mean anythying. Bad form to
> cross before Ullrich. No respect.
>
> "Steve McGinty" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On 22 Jul 2003 05:32:39 -0700, (Martin Recker) wrote:
> >
> > >"Willowbeauty" > wrote in message
> >...
> > >
> > >> Euskatel are after the highest Spanish team prize
> > >
> > >Mayo would have lost nothing in this competition crossing the line as
> 3rd.
> > >
> > >4 seconds are nothing in the best team classification by now.
> >
> > But they could be a lot when the podium is decided on Saturday.
> >
> > Regards!
> > Stephen
>
>

[Gerrit Stolte]

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:43:15 +0100, Steve McGinty
> wrote:

>On 22 Jul 2003 05:32:39 -0700, (Martin Recker) wrote:
>
>>"Willowbeauty" > wrote in message >...
>>
>>> Euskatel are after the highest Spanish team prize
>>
>>Mayo would have lost nothing in this competition crossing the line as 3rd.
>>
>>4 seconds are nothing in the best team classification by now.
>
>But they could be a lot when the podium is decided on Saturday.

Let's see: Mayo will lose 3 minutes on Vino on Saturday and 5 minutes on
Ullrich. HTF does he want to make the podium.

Gerrit - hoping that Mayo will lose 3'52 minutes on Lance ;-)

[Willowbeauty]

"Martin Recker" > wrote in message
om...
> "Willowbeauty" > wrote in message
>...
>
> > Euskatel are after the highest Spanish team prize
>
> Mayo would have lost nothing in this competition crossing the line as 3rd.
>
> 4 seconds are nothing in the best team classification by now.

Good thing Lemond wasn't quite so flippant as you over a few seconds wasn't
it?

[Steve McGinty]

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:18:16 +0200, Gerrit Stolte
> wrote:

>On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:43:15 +0100, Steve McGinty
> wrote:
>
>>On 22 Jul 2003 05:32:39 -0700, (Martin Recker) wrote:
>>
>>>"Willowbeauty" > wrote in message >...
>>>
>>>> Euskatel are after the highest Spanish team prize
>>>
>>>Mayo would have lost nothing in this competition crossing the line as 3rd.
>>>
>>>4 seconds are nothing in the best team classification by now.
>>
>>But they could be a lot when the podium is decided on Saturday.
>
>Let's see: Mayo will lose 3 minutes on Vino on Saturday and 5 minutes on
>Ullrich. HTF does he want to make the podium.
>
Put it in the perspective of Monday's stage - Mayo didn't know how
much time Vino was going to lose - so every second counted, as far as
he was concerned.


Regards!
Stephen

[Martin Recker]

"Willowbeauty" > wrote in message >...
> >
> > Mayo would have lost nothing in this competition crossing the line as 3rd.
> >
> > 4 seconds are nothing in the best team classification by now.
>
> Good thing Lemond wasn't quite so flippant as you over a few seconds wasn't
> it?

I just learned from RBR that the bonuses doesn't even count for the
best team classification.

Okay, Mayo may not have known that either.

[Clovis Lark]

Kurgan Gringioni > wrote:

> "Willowbeauty" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Martin Recker" > wrote in message
>> om...
>> > "Willowbeauty" > wrote in message
>> >...
>> >
>> > > Euskatel are after the highest Spanish team prize
>> >
>> > Mayo would have lost nothing in this competition crossing the line as
> 3rd.
>> >
>> > 4 seconds are nothing in the best team classification by now.
>>
>> Good thing Lemond wasn't quite so flippant as you over a few seconds
> wasn't
>> it?



> Mayo is not in contention for much. The rider ahead of him is his teamate.

If he breaks tomorrow for Bayonne (not saying he will) would you accept
his motives for a podium finish? If he and Zubeldia continue to slave in
tandem and make up the deficit to CSC, would you accept those motives?
What might you accept?

[Kurgan Gringioni]

"Clovis Lark" > wrote in message
...
> Kurgan Gringioni > wrote:
>
> > "Willowbeauty" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> "Martin Recker" > wrote in message
> >> om...
> >> > "Willowbeauty" > wrote in message
> >> >...
> >> >
> >> > > Euskatel are after the highest Spanish team prize
> >> >
> >> > Mayo would have lost nothing in this competition crossing the line as
> > 3rd.
> >> >
> >> > 4 seconds are nothing in the best team classification by now.
> >>
> >> Good thing Lemond wasn't quite so flippant as you over a few seconds
> > wasn't
> >> it?
>
>
>
> > Mayo is not in contention for much. The rider ahead of him is his
teamate.
>
> If he breaks tomorrow for Bayonne (not saying he will) would you accept
> his motives for a podium finish? If he and Zubeldia continue to slave in
> tandem and make up the deficit to CSC, would you accept those motives?
> What might you accept?



Mayo won't finish on the podium.

I'm willing to put money on that. Are you?

[Wayne Pein]

Steve McGinty wrote:

>
> Put it in the perspective of Monday's stage - Mayo didn't know how
> much time Vino was going to lose - so every second counted, as far as
> he was concerned.
>

In that case he should have worked with JU to put time into Vino, unless Mayo's "excuse" is that he couldn't help due to JU's
pressure. And if he couldn't help, then he ought to be thankful to JU for towing him, and concede the time bonus to JU.

Wayne

[Scott Downie]

Mayo is my currently hated rider for that move. No class !!

--
Irrationally held truths may be more harmful than reasoned errors.
"Martin Recker" > wrote in message
om...
> "Willowbeauty" > wrote in message
>...
> > >
> > > Mayo would have lost nothing in this competition crossing the line as
3rd.
> > >
> > > 4 seconds are nothing in the best team classification by now.
> >
> > Good thing Lemond wasn't quite so flippant as you over a few seconds
wasn't
> > it?
>
> I just learned from RBR that the bonuses doesn't even count for the
> best team classification.
>
> Okay, Mayo may not have known that either.

[Clovis Lark]

Kurgan Gringioni > wrote:

> "Clovis Lark" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Kurgan Gringioni > wrote:
>>
>> > "Willowbeauty" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >>
>> >> "Martin Recker" > wrote in message
>> >> om...
>> >> > "Willowbeauty" > wrote in message
>> >> >...
>> >> >
>> >> > > Euskatel are after the highest Spanish team prize
>> >> >
>> >> > Mayo would have lost nothing in this competition crossing the line as
>> > 3rd.
>> >> >
>> >> > 4 seconds are nothing in the best team classification by now.
>> >>
>> >> Good thing Lemond wasn't quite so flippant as you over a few seconds
>> > wasn't
>> >> it?
>>
>>
>>
>> > Mayo is not in contention for much. The rider ahead of him is his
> teamate.
>>
>> If he breaks tomorrow for Bayonne (not saying he will) would you accept
>> his motives for a podium finish? If he and Zubeldia continue to slave in
>> tandem and make up the deficit to CSC, would you accept those motives?
>> What might you accept?



> Mayo won't finish on the podium.

> I'm willing to put money on that. Are you?

My hunch is that he won't either. But that is not a blank check for him
to stop racing. Much is on the line, E-E has budgetary constraints and is
hoping to raise extra cash for extending contracts for their riders from
both Euskatel and the local government. However, if the dough ain't
sufficient, he, along with several others, will be looking for interest
elsewhere. Most teams would gladly grab a combative, energetic rider who
doesn't give up. On his team's part, the Fundacion Euskadi is only able
to guarantee a single year contract which won't keep riders looking for
several years' security. Euskatel is planning to continue their support to
2006, but the current contract ends next season and good exposure/results
are needed to convince the beancounters. Right now, they aren't inclined
to give more than 3 million euros. The balance is apparently going to come
from provincial government grants. I think this presents incentive enough
to perform as hard as possible.

Facts cribbed from:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour.php?id=road/2003/tour03/features/euskaltel

[Kurgan Gringioni]

"Clovis Lark" > wrote in message
...
>
> > Mayo won't finish on the podium.
>
> > I'm willing to put money on that. Are you?
>
> My hunch is that he won't either. But that is not a blank check for him
> to stop racing. Much is on the line, E-E has budgetary constraints and is
> hoping to raise extra cash for extending contracts for their riders from
> both Euskatel and the local government. However, if the dough ain't
> sufficient, he, along with several others, will be looking for interest
> elsewhere. Most teams would gladly grab a combative, energetic rider who
> doesn't give up. On his team's part, the Fundacion Euskadi is only able
> to guarantee a single year contract which won't keep riders looking for
> several years' security. Euskatel is planning to continue their support to
> 2006, but the current contract ends next season and good exposure/results
> are needed to convince the beancounters. Right now, they aren't inclined
> to give more than 3 million euros. The balance is apparently going to come
> from provincial government grants. I think this presents incentive enough
> to perform as hard as possible.




If he performed as hard as possible, he should have at least helped Ullrich
a little, even 5%, then sprinted.


Dude didn't do a thing. He will be paid back.

[Steve McGinty]

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:15:22 GMT, Wayne Pein > wrote:

>Steve McGinty wrote:
>
>>
>> Put it in the perspective of Monday's stage - Mayo didn't know how
>> much time Vino was going to lose - so every second counted, as far as
>> he was concerned.
>>
>
>In that case he should have worked with JU to put time into Vino, unless Mayo's "excuse" is that he couldn't help due to JU's
>pressure. And if he couldn't help, then he ought to be thankful to JU for towing him, and concede the time bonus to JU.
>
>Wayne

Mayo had attacked a number of times and had tried to go with
Armstrong. Having failed to stay with Armstrong his best option for
gaining time on Vino was to sit on Ullrich when he came up and try to
get the remaining bonuses.


Regards!
Stephen

[Kurgan Gringioni]

"Clovis Lark" > wrote in message
...
> Kurgan Gringioni > wrote:
>
> > "Clovis Lark" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> > Mayo won't finish on the podium.
> >>
> >> > I'm willing to put money on that. Are you?
> >>
> >> My hunch is that he won't either. But that is not a blank check for
him
> >> to stop racing. Much is on the line, E-E has budgetary constraints and
is
> >> hoping to raise extra cash for extending contracts for their riders
from
> >> both Euskatel and the local government. However, if the dough ain't
> >> sufficient, he, along with several others, will be looking for interest
> >> elsewhere. Most teams would gladly grab a combative, energetic rider
who
> >> doesn't give up. On his team's part, the Fundacion Euskadi is only
able
> >> to guarantee a single year contract which won't keep riders looking for
> >> several years' security. Euskatel is planning to continue their support
to
> >> 2006, but the current contract ends next season and good
exposure/results
> >> are needed to convince the beancounters. Right now, they aren't
inclined
> >> to give more than 3 million euros. The balance is apparently going to
come
> >> from provincial government grants. I think this presents incentive
enough
> >> to perform as hard as possible.
>
>
>
>
> > If he performed as hard as possible, he should have at least helped
Ullrich
> > a little, even 5%, then sprinted.
>
> You assume, without evidence, that he had a super 10km climb in his legs
> greater than that of Ullrich.


If he was strong enough to sprint by at the end (Ullrich wanted the bonus),
he could have done at least one or two pulls. The honorable way to do it
would have been to help a little, then quit helping towards the finish. The
way he did it will besmirch his reputation among his peers.

[lazysegall]

Martin Recker wrote:
> "Willowbeauty" > wrote in message
> >...
> > Euskatel are after the highest Spanish team prize
> Mayo would have lost nothing in this competition crossing the
> line as 3rd.
> 4 seconds are nothing in the best team classification by now.



If you don;t want people to sprint for it then don;t give euros for
it...Mayo attacked earlier in the race. He tried to attack Jan once
Lance had left. Mayo also attacked late enough to allow Jan to respond



--
Why hammer if you can spin...

>--------------------------<
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http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Kenny]

> Mayo took 4 seconds from Ullrich by finishing 2nd today.
>
> After Ullrich waited for him and Armstrong.
>
> Mayo gained some Euros, the seconds are irrelevant - for him. Not for
> Ullrich.
>
> Woundn't it have been better style not to outsprint Ullrich after the
> crash and the wait?

When you're 25 years young and you have a chance of finishing 2nd in
the heaviest stage in the pyrenees in the middle the basque fans, you
goddamn try and do it.

[Christophe Kotowski]

> > Mayo won't finish on the podium.
>
> > I'm willing to put money on that. Are you?
>
> My hunch is that he won't either. But that is not a blank check for him
> to stop racing. Much is on the line, E-E has budgetary constraints and is
> hoping to raise extra cash for extending contracts for their riders from
> both Euskatel and the local government. However, if the dough ain't
> sufficient, he, along with several others, will be looking for interest
> elsewhere. Most teams would gladly grab a combative, energetic rider who
> doesn't give up. On his team's part, the Fundacion Euskadi is only able
> to guarantee a single year contract which won't keep riders looking for
> several years' security. Euskatel is planning to continue their support to
> 2006, but the current contract ends next season and good exposure/results
> are needed to convince the beancounters. Right now, they aren't inclined
> to give more than 3 million euros. The balance is apparently going to come
> from provincial government grants. I think this presents incentive enough
> to perform as hard as possible.
>
> Facts cribbed from:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour.php?id=road/2003/tour03/features/euskaltel

So you thing Euskatel is the only team facing tough financial times
and therefore anything goes? FYI, the Bianchi team isn't bathing in
Euros either for example. It is the result of the last minute salvage
of the bankrupt Coast team. Other teams face dissolution if you
believe the grapevine. All this is no excuse for Mayo to act like an
ungrateful wheel sucking parasite. BTW, he refused to lead many times
when within a small group at the head - this is not an isolated
incident, it's a pattern. Lance has had some very telling facial
expressions (rolling eyes, disgust) after trying to get some of the
Euskatel guys to contribute in other circumstances. They have far less
friends at the end of this tour than at the beginning. The sooner
payback time comes the better.

[Willowbeauty]

"Christophe Kotowski" > wrote in message
om...
> > > Mayo won't finish on the podium.
> >
> > > I'm willing to put money on that. Are you?
> >
> > My hunch is that he won't either. But that is not a blank check for him
> > to stop racing. Much is on the line, E-E has budgetary constraints and
is
> > hoping to raise extra cash for extending contracts for their riders from
> > both Euskatel and the local government. However, if the dough ain't
> > sufficient, he, along with several others, will be looking for interest
> > elsewhere. Most teams would gladly grab a combative, energetic rider
who
> > doesn't give up. On his team's part, the Fundacion Euskadi is only able
> > to guarantee a single year contract which won't keep riders looking for
> > several years' security. Euskatel is planning to continue their support
to
> > 2006, but the current contract ends next season and good
exposure/results
> > are needed to convince the beancounters. Right now, they aren't
inclined
> > to give more than 3 million euros. The balance is apparently going to
come
> > from provincial government grants. I think this presents incentive
enough
> > to perform as hard as possible.
> >
> > Facts cribbed from:
> >
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour.php?id=road/2003/tour03/features/euskaltel
>
> So you thing Euskatel is the only team facing tough financial times
> and therefore anything goes? FYI, the Bianchi team isn't bathing in
> Euros either for example. It is the result of the last minute salvage
> of the bankrupt Coast team. Other teams face dissolution if you
> believe the grapevine. All this is no excuse for Mayo to act like an
> ungrateful wheel sucking parasite. BTW, he refused to lead many times
> when within a small group at the head - this is not an isolated
> incident, it's a pattern. Lance has had some very telling facial
> expressions (rolling eyes, disgust) after trying to get some of the
> Euskatel guys to contribute in other circumstances. They have far less
> friends at the end of this tour than at the beginning. The sooner
> payback time comes the better.

Payback time? Oh please grow up. Cycling has a very short memory otherwise
we wouldn't be watching many of this years riders as they have had drug
bans. Live and let live is about the only motto in this hard sport.

[Kurgan Gringioni]

"Kenny" > wrote in message
om...
> > Mayo took 4 seconds from Ullrich by finishing 2nd today.
> >
> > After Ullrich waited for him and Armstrong.
> >
> > Mayo gained some Euros, the seconds are irrelevant - for him. Not for
> > Ullrich.
> >
> > Woundn't it have been better style not to outsprint Ullrich after the
> > crash and the wait?
>
> When you're 25 years young and you have a chance of finishing 2nd in
> the heaviest stage in the pyrenees in the middle the basque fans, you
> goddamn try and do it.



And you may as well take at least one pull, if only for 10 seconds, so you
don't look like the total ******.