Re: Why didn't they wait for Beloki?

[Kurgan Gringioni]

> wrote in message
ws.com...
> Here's a LA quote from today:
>
> "Armstrong was aware that Ullrich didn't attack when he crashed,
> saying "the fact of the matter is that I did the same two years ago on
> the descent of the Col de Peyresourde. I was with a few guys and said
> 'look, we can't race until we know (Ullrich) is ok, if he's back in
> the race. "
>
>
> He didn't stop to see if Beloki was ok?


They quit riding hard. It was on a descent. Vinokourov's gap (he was off the
front) went up by 25 seconds after the crash in a space of 4 km - he only
had 10 seconds advantage at the time of the crash.

So, no, Beloki was not treated differently.

[User968758]

>He didn't stop to see if Beloki was ok? Neither did anyone else.
>Ullrich didn't have the yellow when Lance waited for him so why didn't
>anyone wait to see how Beloki was?

Excellent question.

[User968758]

>They quit riding hard. It was on a descent. Vinokourov's gap (he was off the
>front) went up by 25 seconds after the crash in a space of 4 km - he only
>had 10 seconds advantage at the time of the crash.
>
>So, no, Beloki was not treated differently.
>
>
>
>

I think they were just waiting for Lance to rejoin properly.

[Alex Beascoechea]

And as soon as he picked up he said "C'mon guys what are you waiting for? I
am all right!


"User968758" > wrote in message
...
> >They quit riding hard. It was on a descent. Vinokourov's gap (he was off
the
> >front) went up by 25 seconds after the crash in a space of 4 km - he only
> >had 10 seconds advantage at the time of the crash.
> >
> >So, no, Beloki was not treated differently.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> I think they were just waiting for Lance to rejoin properly.

[Alex Beascoechea]

The dots I can connect are your previous messages that you are now
contradicting. Bravo!


"Kurgan Gringioni" > wrote in
message ...
>
> "Alex Beascoechea" > wrote in message
> ...
> > And as soon as he picked up he said "C'mon guys what are you waiting
for?
> I
> > am all right!
>
>
>
> Vinokourov gained another 20-25 seconds after the crash.
>
> It was downhill, he was alone, the chase had a group.
>
> Even you can connect those dots.
>
>

[Antti Salonen]

User968758 > wrote:

>>He didn't stop to see if Beloki was ok? Neither did anyone else.
>>Ullrich didn't have the yellow when Lance waited for him so why didn't
>>anyone wait to see how Beloki was?

> Excellent question.

And one that has already been answered in this forum. Vinokourov was on
attack when Beloki went down. Vinokourov had attacked in the previous
ascent and wasn't going to stop his attack (nor was he expected to or
supposed to). You don't attack when a key player goes down and might be
able to continue reasonably quickly, but in Beloki's case the whole
scenario was different and more complex.

-as

[Kurgan Gringioni]

"Alex Beascoechea" > wrote in message
...
> The dots I can connect are your previous messages that you are now
> contradicting. Bravo!



I'm not contradicting at all. Vinokourov gained and extra 20-25 seconds
after the crash. On a downhill finish, if the group was chasing, that would
not have happened in the last 4k of a race.

Please show where I contradict myself.


Dumbass.

[David Ryan]

DanSchmatz wrote:
>
> From what I heard the sounds he made as he hit/slid across the pavement were
> indication that he wouldn't be riding anymore that day.

At any rate, they would have known the situation by radio in a minute or so.

[Precious Pup]

wrote:
>

> Ullrich didn't have the yellow when Lance waited for him so why didn't
> anyone wait to see how Beloki was?

For the Beloki crash incident, Vino was off the front, closing to the finish, and was a contender. They
didn't have the luxury of waiting to determine the state of Beloki. No contender was off the front today.

Of course, you are simply trolling, since this is all obvious.

[Bird]

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:20:52 GMT, David Ryan
> wrote:

>DanSchmatz wrote:
>>
>> From what I heard the sounds he made as he hit/slid across the pavement were
>> indication that he wouldn't be riding anymore that day.
>
>At any rate, they would have known the situation by radio in a minute or so.

a minute or so? I dont think they will wait a few minutes to hear if
they're alowed to continue the race

Two years ago, Armstrong waited for Ullrich, just for a few seconds,
to let him catch up. Today, Ullrich did the same.

If Armstrong had fallen seriously, or if he'd broken his bis in two
parts, Ullrich wouldn't wait for him.




Groet,
Arne Vogel

[Bird]

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:20:52 GMT, David Ryan
> wrote:

>DanSchmatz wrote:
>>
>> From what I heard the sounds he made as he hit/slid across the pavement were
>> indication that he wouldn't be riding anymore that day.
>
>At any rate, they would have known the situation by radio in a minute or so.

a minute or so? I dont think they will wait a few minutes to hear if
they're alowed to continue the race

Two years ago, Armstrong waited for Ullrich, just for a few seconds,
to let him catch up. Today, Ullrich did the same.

If Armstrong had fallen seriously, or if he'd broken his bike in two
parts, Ullrich wouldn't wait for him.



Groet,
Arne Vogel

[Bob]

On 21 Jul 2003 21:18:26 GMT, (User968758) wrote:

>>He didn't stop to see if Beloki was ok? Neither did anyone else.
>>Ullrich didn't have the yellow when Lance waited for him so why didn't
>>anyone wait to see how Beloki was?
>
>Excellent question.

Because Beloki wasnt getting up from that crash....

[Alex Beascoechea]

You are right Dumbass. (I mixed your stuff with that from other messages).
But I do not accept (what I think is your point) that the loss of time can
be attributed to Armstrong (and the others) making a significant gesture of
concern. It just was not there, so no "class" ;) points for Lance.

The extra 15-25 and possibly more ( has anybody meassured?) secs are
completely within the range of what Lance cross-country trip lasted and the
time to get back on the bike, get the fear out of his system and pick up
speed.

The chase? Sorry, but if Beloki (that is not precisiley Olano going
downhill) is the one pulling down, then there was something wrong there
anyways.

"Kurgan Gringioni" > wrote in
message ...
>
> "Alex Beascoechea" > wrote in message
> ...
> > The dots I can connect are your previous messages that you are now
> > contradicting. Bravo!
>
>
>
> I'm not contradicting at all. Vinokourov gained and extra 20-25 seconds
> after the crash. On a downhill finish, if the group was chasing, that
would
> not have happened in the last 4k of a race.
>
> Please show where I contradict myself.
>
>
> Dumbass.
>
>

[Alex Beascoechea]

We all know that now. But did Lance know? I do not think so, and no gesture
he made suggests otherwise. In fact could he even know? Does it really
matter? The fact is, nobody waited (not even Zubeldia taht probably knows
Beloki pretty well).

By the time Lance and the others were arriving to the finish line, the ONCE
car had just arrived to evaluate the situation, even Beloki himself thought
for a second he could continue, till he standed up (with help) and felt the
pain in the hip (he has said so).


"Bob" > wrote in message
...
> On 21 Jul 2003 21:18:26 GMT, (User968758) wrote:
>
> >>He didn't stop to see if Beloki was ok? Neither did anyone else.
> >>Ullrich didn't have the yellow when Lance waited for him so why didn't
> >>anyone wait to see how Beloki was?
> >
> >Excellent question.
>
> Because Beloki wasnt getting up from that crash....
>

[Vern Faulkner]

On 21 Jul 2003 21:18:26 GMT, (User968758) wrote:

>>He didn't stop to see if Beloki was ok? Neither did anyone else.
>>Ullrich didn't have the yellow when Lance waited for him so why didn't
>>anyone wait to see how Beloki was?
>
>Excellent question.

Two things - on a downhill, at 50-60km/hr, riders don't "get up"
again.

Second, there was an unattached GC threat to chase ahead.

[Bird]

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 02:03:04 +0200, "Alex Beascoechea"
> wrote:

>We all know that now. But did Lance know? I do not think so, and no gesture
>he made suggests otherwise. In fact could he even know? Does it really
>matter? The fact is, nobody waited (not even Zubeldia taht probably knows
>Beloki pretty well).

Armstrong (and the others) knew at once that Beloki would not get on
is bike for minutes. (or worse)

That was enough to justify the decision to continue the race.


Groet,
Arne Vogel

[Tom Ewall]

When Armstrong waited for Ulrich, Ulrich was the only challenger he
had. He could afford to wait and no one else was a threat. When
Beloki went down, V was riding off and had no reason to wait, which
both Ulrich and Armstrong knew. If there were a cushion so that
waiting would not possibly cost the tour to another guy then I'm sure
they would have waited.

It wasn't just one time that Armstrong waited for Ulrich, and I
wouldn't be surprised if there were other times we don't know about
where the reverse is also true.