Re: Jan's crash

[Kurgan Gringioni]

"M. Wehrmann" > wrote in message
...
> Ullrich in German TV:
>
> " ... I didn't risk to much. That crash was caused by a greasy surface ...
> At that turn other riders crashed, too ..."




JAN ****ed up.

Watch the replay. He pedaled.

In slippery turns, it is best to brake before turning, then coast through,
neither pedaling or braking when in the turn.

Pedaling or braking adds extra force to the tire patch, increasing the
chances of losing traction.

Repeat: JAN ****ed up.



K.. Gringioini


ps. If he didn't crash, he wasn't going to win the Tour anyway.

[David N. Welton]

"M. Wehrmann" > writes:

> Peschel

> He got multiple rip fractures and a collapse of the right lung
> ("pneumothorax" for the medical professionals here)
> > emergency > hospital.

Owe..bad stuff. I had that happen, and they had to staple my lung
together with titanium staples.

--
David N. Welton
Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/
Personal: http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/
Free Software: http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/
Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/

[Tim South]

Yep,

All of you racing driver's/enthusiasts know about the "friction circle" and
the "rain line".

"Kurgan Gringioni" > wrote in
message et...
>
> "M. Wehrmann" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Ullrich in German TV:
> >
> > " ... I didn't risk to much. That crash was caused by a greasy surface
....
> > At that turn other riders crashed, too ..."
>
>
>
>
> JAN ****ed up.
>
> Watch the replay. He pedaled.
>
> In slippery turns, it is best to brake before turning, then coast through,
> neither pedaling or braking when in the turn.
>
> Pedaling or braking adds extra force to the tire patch, increasing the
> chances of losing traction.
>
> Repeat: JAN ****ed up.
>
>
>
> K.. Gringioini
>
>
> ps. If he didn't crash, he wasn't going to win the Tour anyway.
>
>

[Gerrit Stolte]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 16:53:12 GMT, (David N. Welton)
wrote:

>"M. Wehrmann" > writes:
>
>> Peschel
>
>> He got multiple rip fractures and a collapse of the right lung
>> ("pneumothorax" for the medical professionals here)
>> > emergency > hospital.
>
>Owe..bad stuff. I had that happen, and they had to staple my lung
>together with titanium staples.

.... and really *bad*: Peschel is reported to have refused to put out his
shoes in the hospital, stating that "I will race tomorrow". well ...

[David N. Welton]

Gerrit Stolte > writes:

> >> Peschel

> >> He got multiple rip fractures and a collapse of the right lung
> >> ("pneumothorax" for the medical professionals here) > emergency >
> >> hospital.

> >Owe..bad stuff. I had that happen, and they had to staple my lung
> >together with titanium staples.

> ... and really *bad*: Peschel is reported to have refused to put out
> his shoes in the hospital, stating that "I will race tomorrow". well
> ...

It's not *impossible* to ride with a collapsed lung, just painful and
you don't have much breath. Mine wasn't diagnosed immediately (idiot
doctor thought it was asthma) and I kept riding - but couldn't climb
worth ****.

--
David N. Welton
Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/
Personal: http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/
Free Software: http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/
Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/

[Boyd Speerschneider]

"Tim South" > wrote in news:qmyUa.6805$dO2.1527
@fe2.columbus.rr.com:

> Yep,
>
> All of you racing driver's/enthusiasts know about the "friction circle" and
> the "rain line".

How about explaining these terms for those of us who only race bikes? :)

TIA,

- Boyd S.

[Benjamin Werner]

"Kurgan Gringioni" > writes:

> "M. Wehrmann" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Ullrich in German TV:
> >
> > " ... I didn't risk to much. That crash was caused by a greasy surface ...
> > At that turn other riders crashed, too ..."
>
>
>
>
> JAN ****ed up.
>
> Watch the replay. He pedaled.

That is how it looked like to me on TV. On the other hand, Jalabert
who was following him on the motorcycle said that he lost the front
wheel first. If this is true, then the crash is very probably due to
some oil or gasoil floating over the water.

I have ridden over more than enough french round-abouts with a
motorbike to know thiss can be deadly. Trucks often loose gasoil on
round-abouts. I am however a little surprised the oil/gasoil was not
yet washed away after such a long and strong rain.

Benjamin

[zeno]

Benjamin Werner wrote:
> "Kurgan Gringioni" > writes:
>
>>"M. Wehrmann" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>Ullrich in German TV:
>>>
>>>" ... I didn't risk to much. That crash was caused by a greasy surface ...
>>>At that turn other riders crashed, too ..."
>>
>>JAN ****ed up.
>>
>>Watch the replay. He pedaled.
>
> That is how it looked like to me on TV. On the other hand, Jalabert
> who was following him on the motorcycle said that he lost the front
> wheel first. If this is true, then the crash is very probably due to
> some oil or gasoil floating over the water.
>
> I have ridden over more than enough french round-abouts with a
> motorbike to know thiss can be deadly. Trucks often loose gasoil on
> round-abouts. I am however a little surprised the oil/gasoil was not
> yet washed away after such a long and strong rain.
>
> Benjamin

Ja Ja also said Jan chose the wrong front wheel for the conditions,
which effected handling adversely.

He didn't think much of Jan's rainy day bike handling skills either, as
opposed to LA, who he compared to F1's Schumacher in the rain.

Zeno

[Kurgan Gringioni]

"Boyd Speerschneider" > wrote in message
...
> (David N. Welton) wrote in
> :
>
> <snip>
>
> > It's not *impossible* to ride with a collapsed lung, just painful and
> > you don't have much breath. Mine wasn't diagnosed immediately (idiot
> > doctor thought it was asthma) and I kept riding - but couldn't climb
> > worth ****.
>
> If *you* couldn't climb worth **** with a collapsed lung, what are the
odds
> of Peschel hanging onto the back of the TDF peloton?



Peschel can make it. Tommorrow is champagne and parade day and the time is
taken when they enter the Champs. After they get on the Champs, Peschel just
needs to finish all 10 laps.

[Tom Kunich]

Uwe Peschel is one of the most underrated riders in the peloton. A man
with a great talent and a not so great turn of luck.

"M. Wehrmann" > wrote in message
...
> Ullrich in German TV:
>
> " ... I didn't risk to much. That crash was caused by a greasy
surface ...
> At that turn other riders crashed, too ..."
>
> Uwe Peschel (Gerolsteiner) for example.
>
> He got multiple rip fractures and a collapse of the right lung
> ("pneumothorax" for the medical professionals here)
> > emergency > hospital.
>
> Manuel W
>
>

[Tom Kunich]

"Boyd Speerschneider" > wrote in message
...
> (David N. Welton) wrote in
> :
>
> <snip>
>
> > It's not *impossible* to ride with a collapsed lung, just painful
and
> > you don't have much breath. Mine wasn't diagnosed immediately
(idiot
> > doctor thought it was asthma) and I kept riding - but couldn't
climb
> > worth ****.
>
> If *you* couldn't climb worth **** with a collapsed lung, what are
the odds
> of Peschel hanging onto the back of the TDF peloton?

It all depends on the actual problem. Moreover, the peloton is going
to go really slow tomorrow in all likelihood. This has been an intense
Tour and the Green Jersey is still in contention.

COME ON BADEN!!!

[Gerard Lanois]

"Kurgan Gringioni" > writes:

> "Boyd Speerschneider" > wrote in message
> ...
> > (David N. Welton) wrote in
> > :
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > It's not *impossible* to ride with a collapsed lung, just painful and
> > > you don't have much breath. Mine wasn't diagnosed immediately (idiot
> > > doctor thought it was asthma) and I kept riding - but couldn't climb
> > > worth ****.
> >
> > If *you* couldn't climb worth **** with a collapsed lung, what are the
> odds
> > of Peschel hanging onto the back of the TDF peloton?
>
>
>
> Peschel can make it. Tommorrow is champagne and parade day and the time is
> taken when they enter the Champs. After they get on the Champs, Peschel just
> needs to finish all 10 laps.

Especially if he lays off the cigs.

-Gerard

[Tim South]

Look at this link:

http://www.nyracer.com/friction.htm

Essentially, If you are using all of your tire's available traction in one
direction, and then add to the demands you loose control. For instance,
braking very hard and then turning in while braking. All of the tires
available traction is used for braking, the introduced later force puts the
resultant required friction vector outside of the circle. This is why
racecar drivers do all braking in a straight line before entering the
corner. Of course those truly great drivers can manage the friction circle
a little better and trail brake.

The rain line basically involves crossing the normal line in as close to 90
degree angles as possible. This is due the polishing affect traffic has on
the pavement. The off line surface is usually rougher and offers more
grip. There are obviously exceptions to this.

"Boyd Speerschneider" > wrote in message
...
> "Tim South" > wrote in news:qmyUa.6805$dO2.1527
> @fe2.columbus.rr.com:
>
> > Yep,
> >
> > All of you racing driver's/enthusiasts know about the "friction circle"
and
> > the "rain line".
>
> How about explaining these terms for those of us who only race bikes? :)
>
> TIA,
>
> - Boyd S.