Kurgan is going to be disappointed

[Bill C]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,153944,00.html

CHICAGO - Being overweight is nowhere near as big a killer as the
government thought, ranking No. 7 instead of No. 2 among the nation's
leading preventable causes of death, according to a startling new
calculation from the CDC.

Of course this is the same administration that declared all major
combat to be over about 1000 dead soldiers ago.

Be fat! Be happy! It's good for you!
Bill C

[Stewart Fleming]

Bill C wrote:

> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,153944,00.html
>
> CHICAGO - Being overweight is nowhere near as big a killer as the
> government thought, ranking No. 7 instead of No. 2 among the nation's

How deadly is "government thought"?

[Bill C]

Stewart Fleming wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
>
> > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,153944,00.html
> >
> > CHICAGO - Being overweight is nowhere near as big a killer as the
> > government thought, ranking No. 7 instead of No. 2 among the
nation's
>
> How deadly is "government thought"?

If you look at history, it seems to be pretty rare, but also when some
government gets a thought seems like somebody's going to get invaded.
So pretty scary.
Bill C

[gds]

Bill C wrote:
> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,153944,00.html
>
> CHICAGO - Being overweight is nowhere near as big a killer as the
> government thought, ranking No. 7 instead of No. 2 among the nation's
> leading preventable causes of death, according to a startling new
> calculation from the CDC.
>
> Of course this is the same administration that declared all major
> combat to be over about 1000 dead soldiers ago.
>
> Be fat! Be happy! It's good for you!

> Bill C
But of course they once again used BMI to define overweight. So all of
us with any muscle mass are overweight.
I'd like to see the study redone with accurate measures of body fat
used rather than BMI

Gary "overweight @ 11% bodyfat :-)"

[Bill C]

gds wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,153944,00.html
> >
> > CHICAGO - Being overweight is nowhere near as big a killer as the
> > government thought, ranking No. 7 instead of No. 2 among the
nation's
> > leading preventable causes of death, according to a startling new
> > calculation from the CDC.
> >
> > Of course this is the same administration that declared all major
> > combat to be over about 1000 dead soldiers ago.
> >
> > Be fat! Be happy! It's good for you!
>
> > Bill C
> But of course they once again used BMI to define overweight. So all
of
> us with any muscle mass are overweight.
> I'd like to see the study redone with accurate measures of body fat
> used rather than BMI
>
> Gary "overweight @ 11% bodyfat :-)"

Yeah BMI is ok for sedentary types or endurance athletes. I'd guess
that a lot of the track sprinters probably score pretty badly due to
the extra musclemass especially quads, hams, and glutes.
The only rational measure is, as you say, BF%.
The government gets pretty stupid about it. I had a friend in the Air
Force who had been an All American heavywieght amatuer wrestler at
Kansas. He was still in the same shape when he came into the AF, they
put him on the "Fat Boy" program for being 6'0 and about 210. He maxed
all the PT test scores, and could easily do a 10 mile run, and did
regularly since he was convinced he wasn't getting in enough PT, none
of which was good enough since he couldn't lose the weight. What a
shock, tons of exercise, combined with a clean diet wont make you lose
lean muscle mass quickly. When they finally sent him out to be tanked
for a waver he was at 206 with 4% bodyfat. They finally smartened up
and gave him a waiver to be tested very year. They did the same thing
with one of their Heavyweight boxers who was in about the same shape
after he really screwed up his hand and wrist and couldn't fight
anymore. They made his life miserable for quite a while too.
Go figure.
Bill C

[Curtis L. Russell]

On 20 Apr 2005 10:10:23 -0700, "Bill C" > wrote:

>The government gets pretty stupid about it. I had a friend in the Air
>Force who had been an All American heavywieght amatuer wrestler at
>Kansas. He was still in the same shape when he came into the AF, they
>put him on the "Fat Boy" program for being 6'0 and about 210.

When was that? During the end of Nam, there were a couple of Air Force
E6 types at NSA that had to walk in the main doors sideways -
literally. They couldn't reach the door handles while facing the door
head on. Yeah, they were put on programs on a regular basis, but the
AF sure didn't seem to be real concerned about body fat back then. If
either was under 320 or so, I'd be surprised - biggest two people in
uniform I ever saw, unless there's someone at Barnum and Baileys.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

[Bill C]

Curtis L. Russell wrote:
> On 20 Apr 2005 10:10:23 -0700, "Bill C" > wrote:
>
> >The government gets pretty stupid about it. I had a friend in the
Air
> >Force who had been an All American heavywieght amatuer wrestler at
> >Kansas. He was still in the same shape when he came into the AF,
they
> >put him on the "Fat Boy" program for being 6'0 and about 210.
>
> When was that? During the end of Nam, there were a couple of Air
Force
> E6 types at NSA that had to walk in the main doors sideways -
> literally. They couldn't reach the door handles while facing the door
> head on. Yeah, they were put on programs on a regular basis, but the
> AF sure didn't seem to be real concerned about body fat back then. If
> either was under 320 or so, I'd be surprised - biggest two people in
> uniform I ever saw, unless there's someone at Barnum and Baileys.
>
> Curtis L. Russell
> Odenton, MD (USA)
> Just someone on two wheels...

This was early 80s. Craig the wrester was at Keesler in Eternal
Warfare nad with it being a training base they are a little strange
around the edges about this stuff. The boxer was in Germany. What I did
see a lot of is the end of what you are talking about. It seems that
they really overlooked/grandfathered older NCO types until they could
retire. One of my comanders responses was to put a reenlistment bar on
some of them after they signed their last contract, or blocked
promotion right after they made their last stripe. Glad they did take
care of some of those guys too. I learned more about how to actually
work the mobile communications stuff from those guys than anyone else.
They knew all the quirks of the equipment, which techs were good,
etc..you know how that works. I got to see the other side too, a
complete suck-up ass kissing jackass who managed to Article 15, force
transfers, cross trains, and early retirement from most of our good
senior NCOs before he was finally relieved of his command. Gotta make
sure when you write OIs that are in direct violation of DOD security
policy that you hide all the copies before the inspectors come in. He
missed one that our Chief Operator, had locked up and handed over to
the head of the inspection team after our commander had denied up and
down that they existed. Imagine that, all the OIs had his signature
too. Pretty quick explanation of why we were having so many security
incidents involving people who had never had one before.
Needless to say his "friends" up the chain of command couldn't save
his ass on that one. Unfortunately he wrecked a lot of good peoples
careers before they got him. He convinced me to take get the hell out
that's for sure.
Bill C

[Tim Lines]

I recall a big stink about a bodybuilder from GA that was put on the fat
boy program at about the same time as you're talking about (early/mid
80's). I think he got a waiver. I don't know what his bf% was, but the
pictures made it look really low. Meanwhile I knew NCOs who were
nothing but flab that managed to scoot under their limit by purging and
spending a lot of time in the sauna before weigh in.

Bill C wrote:
> Curtis L. Russell wrote:
>
>>On 20 Apr 2005 10:10:23 -0700, "Bill C" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The government gets pretty stupid about it. I had a friend in the
>
> Air
>
>>>Force who had been an All American heavywieght amatuer wrestler at
>>>Kansas. He was still in the same shape when he came into the AF,
>
> they
>
>>>put him on the "Fat Boy" program for being 6'0 and about 210.
>>
>>When was that? During the end of Nam, there were a couple of Air
>
> Force
>
>>E6 types at NSA that had to walk in the main doors sideways -
>>literally. They couldn't reach the door handles while facing the door
>>head on. Yeah, they were put on programs on a regular basis, but the
>>AF sure didn't seem to be real concerned about body fat back then. If
>>either was under 320 or so, I'd be surprised - biggest two people in
>>uniform I ever saw, unless there's someone at Barnum and Baileys.
>>
>>Curtis L. Russell
>>Odenton, MD (USA)
>>Just someone on two wheels...
>
>
> This was early 80s. Craig the wrester was at Keesler in Eternal
> Warfare nad with it being a training base they are a little strange
> around the edges about this stuff. The boxer was in Germany. What I did
> see a lot of is the end of what you are talking about. It seems that
> they really overlooked/grandfathered older NCO types until they could
> retire. One of my comanders responses was to put a reenlistment bar on
> some of them after they signed their last contract, or blocked
> promotion right after they made their last stripe. Glad they did take
> care of some of those guys too. I learned more about how to actually
> work the mobile communications stuff from those guys than anyone else.
> They knew all the quirks of the equipment, which techs were good,
> etc..you know how that works. I got to see the other side too, a
> complete suck-up ass kissing jackass who managed to Article 15, force
> transfers, cross trains, and early retirement from most of our good
> senior NCOs before he was finally relieved of his command. Gotta make
> sure when you write OIs that are in direct violation of DOD security
> policy that you hide all the copies before the inspectors come in. He
> missed one that our Chief Operator, had locked up and handed over to
> the head of the inspection team after our commander had denied up and
> down that they existed. Imagine that, all the OIs had his signature
> too. Pretty quick explanation of why we were having so many security
> incidents involving people who had never had one before.
> Needless to say his "friends" up the chain of command couldn't save
> his ass on that one. Unfortunately he wrecked a lot of good peoples
> careers before they got him. He convinced me to take get the hell out
> that's for sure.
> Bill C
>

[Bill C]

Tim Lines wrote:
> I recall a big stink about a bodybuilder from GA that was put on the
fat
> boy program at about the same time as you're talking about (early/mid

> 80's). I think he got a waiver. I don't know what his bf% was, but
the
> pictures made it look really low. Meanwhile I knew NCOs who were
> nothing but flab that managed to scoot under their limit by purging
and
> spending a lot of time in the sauna before weigh in.
>
Too bad we didn't have the black market cornered on diuretics and
laxatives huh?
I really used to wonder if some of them were coming out alive. I can't
fathom the concept of totally dehydrating yourself and getting into a
sauna to finish it off to make weight, and not just getting your ****
together. I'm sure you saw a bunch of the same people do it over and
over again too.
That **** while having 25%or 30% BF was scary as ****. Luckily I went
in at 165, then stabilised at 183 after I got put on the program for
one quarter at 185. I made sure I was never heavy enough around weigh
in to have to worry about it. Made for a great training cycle with a
peak at weigh in time. Common sense was never much of consideration
for orderly room day weenies though.
Bill C

[Curtis L. Russell]

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 17:45:16 -0700, Tim Lines >
wrote:

>Meanwhile I knew NCOs who were
>nothing but flab that managed to scoot under their limit by purging and
>spending a lot of time in the sauna before weigh in.

Working at NSA in a tri-service environment, all the overweight NCOs
used a similar system. Drink a couple of 16 oz cokes/pepsis, drink
some water and don't pee before initial weigh-in. Withhout doing a
thing, you're down 2 pounds by the second. Then do the sauna and wine
thing to get water out of the system for the third. Looks like you
lost 2 pounds or more between weigh-ins and the service loses
interest. Go back to former ways (weighs, whatever) at McDonalds
immediately thereafter.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...