Boyer escapes hammer, .....for now.

[Claudius Vitalis]

Boyer recently pleaded guilty to seven counts of child molestation and three
counts of genital penetration involving a young girl. Boyer was sentenced to
one year in jail in a Monterey County, California, facility. Upon release,
Boyer will serve a five-year probation. If he violates this probation, he
will serve 20 years. The judge suspended the 20-year sentence, believing
Boyer was a good candidate for rehabilitation. He must also register as a
sex offender.
----------------------

Do they have a training bike in jail?

[Casey Kerrigan]

In article et>,
Claudius Vitalis > wrote:

> Boyer recently pleaded guilty to seven counts of child molestation and three
> counts of genital penetration involving a young girl. Boyer was sentenced to
> one year in jail in a Monterey County, California, facility. Upon release,
> Boyer will serve a five-year probation. If he violates this probation, he
> will serve 20 years. The judge suspended the 20-year sentence, believing
> Boyer was a good candidate for rehabilitation. He must also register as a
> sex offender.
> ----------------------
>
> Do they have a training bike in jail?
>
>
According to the folowing race results it looks like he is riding again
( if it is the same person)

Cantua Creek RR from 2/21/05
Master 35+ 1/2/3_____22 riders
Race#*Rider******* Team**** Hometown
1**374***Michael Hutchinson****Team Spine****** Napa
2**376** Michael Hernandez*****TEAM SPINE***** RENO
3* 365**Jonathan Boyer******* Unattached***** MARINA
4**366**Billy Clark******* Morgan Stanley * LIVERMORE
5* 362**Clint Gaver******* Team Spine*****LOS GATOS
6* 367**Stephen Gregorios***** Morgan Stanley *TRACY

The full results are at http://www.velopromo.com/cant-rl05.htm

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> According to the folowing race results it looks like he is riding again
> ( if it is the same person)

Somebody is recycling very old news.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

[Bill C]

Casey Kerrigan wrote:
> In article et>,
> Claudius Vitalis > wrote:
>
> > Boyer recently pleaded guilty to seven counts of child molestation
and three
> > counts of genital penetration involving a young girl. Boyer was
sentenced to
> > one year in jail in a Monterey County, California, facility. Upon
release,
> > Boyer will serve a five-year probation. If he violates this
probation, he
> > will serve 20 years. The judge suspended the 20-year sentence,
believing
> > Boyer was a good candidate for rehabilitation. He must also
register as a
> > sex offender.
> > ----------------------
> >
> > Do they have a training bike in jail?
> >
> >
> According to the folowing race results it looks like he is riding
again
> ( if it is the same person)
>
> Cantua Creek RR from 2/21/05
> Master 35+ 1/2/3_____22 riders
> Race# Rider Team
Hometown
> 1 374 Michael Hutchinson Team Spine Napa
> 2 376 Michael Hernandez TEAM SPINE RENO
> 3 365 Jonathan Boyer Unattached MARINA
> 4 366 Billy Clark Morgan Stanley
LIVERMORE
> 5 362 Clint Gaver Team Spine LOS
GATOS
> 6 367 Stephen Gregorios Morgan Stanley TRACY
>
> The full results are at http://www.velopromo.com/cant-rl05.htm

http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/2004/04/18/sports/8460825.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp

Quoted:
Boyer understands the skepticism. He accepts the doubts. He does not go
so far as to say he is innocent of the charges. But has contended from
the beginning that things are not as ugly as they appear.

"There are things that happened that I don't feel good about," he said.
"I wish I could say more. The situation is so much different that it is
perceived by the public. To begin to try to explain would be too
difficult."

What a surprise that some judge who doesn't have to take any
responsibility when this scumbag abuses another kid set his ass loose,
even though he really doesn't seem to think he did anything too bad.
This POS should've had his sack ripped off, after the appeal failed,
right in the courtroom then been shot in the head with a .45 on the
spot. These judges and shrinks that keep turning these predators loose
should be held civilly accountable for the damage they cause too.
Proudly libertarian fascist
Bill C

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Tue, 03 May 2005 20:45:59 GMT, Casey Kerrigan
> wrote:

>Cantua Creek RR from 2/21/05
>Master 35+ 1/2/3_____22 riders
> Race#*Rider******* Team**** Hometown
>1**374***Michael Hutchinson****Team Spine****** Napa
>2**376** Michael Hernandez*****TEAM SPINE***** RENO
>3* 365**Jonathan Boyer******* Unattached***** MARINA
>4**366**Billy Clark******* Morgan Stanley * LIVERMORE
>5* 362**Clint Gaver******* Team Spine*****LOS GATOS
>6* 367**Stephen Gregorios***** Morgan Stanley *TRACY

Man, speaking as the manager of a race-related website, I wish riders
would but their info in in normal mixed case, assuming they register
online. This all caps stuff is lame.

JT

****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

[Bill C]

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On Tue, 03 May 2005 20:45:59 GMT, Casey Kerrigan
> > wrote:
>
> >Cantua Creek RR from 2/21/05
> >Master 35+ 1/2/3_____22 riders
> > Race# Rider Team
Hometown
> >1 374 Michael Hutchinson Team Spine Napa
> >2 376 Michael Hernandez TEAM SPINE RENO
> >3 365 Jonathan Boyer Unattached MARINA
> >4 366 Billy Clark Morgan Stanley
LIVERMORE
> >5 362 Clint Gaver Team Spine LOS
GATOS
> >6 367 Stephen Gregorios Morgan Stanley TRACY
>
> Man, speaking as the manager of a race-related website, I wish riders
> would but their info in in normal mixed case, assuming they register
> online. This all caps stuff is lame.
>
> JT
>
> ****************************
> Remove "remove" to reply
> Visit http://www.jt10000.com
> ****************************

Yeah JT, but if it's all in caps they are really good, just ask them.
"Morons R Us" is a growth franchise these days, you read the news it's
tough to see anything else.
Totally off topic:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/03/national/03recruit.html

Quoted:

Army Recruiters Say They Feel Pressure to Bend Rules
By DAMIEN CAVE

Published: May 3, 2005


It was late September when the 21-year-old man, fresh from a three-week
commitment in a psychiatric ward, showed up at an Army recruiting
station in southern Ohio. The two recruiters there wasted no time
signing him up, and even after the man's parents told them he had
bipolar disorder - a diagnosis that would disqualify him - he was all
set to be shipped to boot camp, and perhaps Iraq after that, before
senior officers found out and canceled the enlistment.

Despite an Army investigation, the recruiters were not punished and
were still working in the area late last month.

Two hundred miles away, in northern Ohio, another recruiter
END QUOTE

Let every teacher, school official, and kid who is a recruiting target
about this ****. The most patriotic thing a kid could do right now is
anything but enlist under this DOD, and it's self defense too.
Bill C

[Casey Kerrigan]

In article >, John Forrest
Tomlinson > wrote:

> On Tue, 03 May 2005 20:45:59 GMT, Casey Kerrigan
> > wrote:
>
> >Cantua Creek RR from 2/21/05
> >Master 35+ 1/2/3_____22 riders
> > Race#*Rider******* Team**** Hometown
> >1**374***Michael Hutchinson****Team Spine****** Napa
> >2**376** Michael Hernandez*****TEAM SPINE***** RENO
> >3* 365**Jonathan Boyer******* Unattached***** MARINA
> >4**366**Billy Clark******* Morgan Stanley * LIVERMORE
> >5* 362**Clint Gaver******* Team Spine*****LOS GATOS
> >6* 367**Stephen Gregorios***** Morgan Stanley *TRACY
>
> Man, speaking as the manager of a race-related website, I wish riders
> would but their info in in normal mixed case, assuming they register
> online. This all caps stuff is lame.

Well the City names being in all Caps is from the USCF database. I'm
not sure how the Team Spine got in all Caps. The promoter of this race
uses a Reg/Results program that uses the USCF rider database Info for
information like team name and hometown etc. The only Info that is
manually entered if for riders who don't have a current license, or who
have renewed at a race and their renewal hasn't been processed yet.

[[email protected]]

While Boyer may not be "the all american boy" like the darling
Hamilton. Boyer was a great cyclist! He was a pioneer, He opened a
closed door for the likes of Lemond & Armstrong.
On one occasion Boyer was leading & poised to win but was led off
course to prevent an american from winning. That was cycling then in
europe.

Anyway the story is she looked 18. & at least it wasn't a boy at any
age. Those are the real freeks.

[Bill C]

wrote:
> While Boyer may not be "the all american boy" like the darling
> Hamilton. Boyer was a great cyclist! He was a pioneer, He opened a
> closed door for the likes of Lemond & Armstrong.
> On one occasion Boyer was leading & poised to win but was led off
> course to prevent an american from winning. That was cycling then in
> europe.
>
> Anyway the story is she looked 18. & at least it wasn't a boy at any
> age. Those are the real freeks.

This took place over several years, she was a pre-teen. You are making
the excuse that since it wasn't a boy, and she looked older (to whom?
I've never seen a pre-teen who looks 18) that it's ok?
You are one sick **** too.
Bill C

[DA74]

Claudius Vitalis wrote:
> Boyer recently pleaded guilty to seven counts of child molestation
and three
> counts of genital penetration involving a young girl. Boyer was
sentenced to
> one year in jail in a Monterey County, California, facility. Upon
release,
> Boyer will serve a five-year probation. If he violates this
probation, he
> will serve 20 years. The judge suspended the 20-year sentence,
believing
> Boyer was a good candidate for rehabilitation. He must also register
as a
> sex offender.
> ----------------------
>
> Do they have a training bike in jail?

He's out bro. Didn't even go upstate. Just county jail, so he's lucky.
Been out for six months. He's actually been hitting up a few pro teams
to get in on the action from what I hear - not riding, but management I
think. Apparently no takers so far.

Pretty weak when he says he pleaded guilty to "spare the witness" -
Unless it's true. But that means dude still has an appetite for the
three-pyoob pie and doesn't want to wreck his chances with her.

I say tell us what really happened or STFU about it.

Maybe for his "rehab" he can coach a girls junior squad.
-DA74

[Curtis L. Russell]

On 3 May 2005 18:20:22 -0700, "Bill C" > wrote:

> This took place over several years, she was a pre-teen. You are making
>the excuse that since it wasn't a boy, and she looked older (to whom?
>I've never seen a pre-teen who looks 18) that it's ok?
> You are one sick **** too.

Maybe not 11, but I clearly remember every guy that was hanging around
the Michigan State University tennis courts hitting on two girls that
we thought were coeds. Their mother, who looked like a slightly older
sister, informed us when she showed up that they were 13 and 15.

Figuring that the 13 year old was statuatory made me feel queasy, but
the rest of the impressions I have to admit affected me otherwise...

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

[Tim Lines]

Bill C wrote:
> Casey Kerrigan wrote:
>
>>In article et>,
>>Claudius Vitalis > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Boyer recently pleaded guilty to seven counts of child molestation
>
> and three
>
>>>counts of genital penetration involving a young girl. Boyer was
>
> sentenced to
>
>>>one year in jail in a Monterey County, California, facility. Upon
>
> release,
>
>>>Boyer will serve a five-year probation. If he violates this
>
> probation, he
>
>>>will serve 20 years. The judge suspended the 20-year sentence,
>
> believing
>
>>>Boyer was a good candidate for rehabilitation. He must also
>
> register as a
>
>>>sex offender.
>>>----------------------
>>>
>>>Do they have a training bike in jail?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>According to the folowing race results it looks like he is riding
>
> again
>
>>( if it is the same person)
>>
>>Cantua Creek RR from 2/21/05
>>Master 35+ 1/2/3_____22 riders
>> Race# Rider Team
>
> Hometown
>
>>1 374 Michael Hutchinson Team Spine Napa
>>2 376 Michael Hernandez TEAM SPINE RENO
>>3 365 Jonathan Boyer Unattached MARINA
>>4 366 Billy Clark Morgan Stanley
>
> LIVERMORE
>
>>5 362 Clint Gaver Team Spine LOS
>
> GATOS
>
>>6 367 Stephen Gregorios Morgan Stanley TRACY
>>
>>The full results are at http://www.velopromo.com/cant-rl05.htm
>
>
> http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/2004/04/18/sports/8460825.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp
>
> Quoted:
> Boyer understands the skepticism. He accepts the doubts. He does not go
> so far as to say he is innocent of the charges. But has contended from
> the beginning that things are not as ugly as they appear.
>
> "There are things that happened that I don't feel good about," he said.
> "I wish I could say more. The situation is so much different that it is
> perceived by the public. To begin to try to explain would be too
> difficult."
>
> What a surprise that some judge who doesn't have to take any
> responsibility when this scumbag abuses another kid set his ass loose,
> even though he really doesn't seem to think he did anything too bad.
> This POS should've had his sack ripped off, after the appeal failed,
> right in the courtroom then been shot in the head with a .45 on the
> spot. These judges and shrinks that keep turning these predators loose
> should be held civilly accountable for the damage they cause too.
> Proudly libertarian fascist
> Bill C
>

The concept of libertarian fascism is interesting, to say the least. And
you said KERRY was a flip flopper.

[Bill C]

Curtis L. Russell wrote:
> On 3 May 2005 18:20:22 -0700, "Bill C" > wrote:
>
> > This took place over several years, she was a pre-teen. You are
making
> >the excuse that since it wasn't a boy, and she looked older (to
whom?
> >I've never seen a pre-teen who looks 18) that it's ok?
> > You are one sick **** too.
>
> Maybe not 11, but I clearly remember every guy that was hanging
around
> the Michigan State University tennis courts hitting on two girls that
> we thought were coeds. Their mother, who looked like a slightly older
> sister, informed us when she showed up that they were 13 and 15.
>
> Figuring that the 13 year old was statuatory made me feel queasy, but
> the rest of the impressions I have to admit affected me otherwise...
>
> Curtis L. Russell
> Odenton, MD (USA)
> Just someone on two wheels...

That's the thing, it didn't take you guys long to find out how young
they were, and back off. I agree with you about the 15yr old
especially. There are plenty that could pass for 18, and do, but Boyer
knew exactly what he was doing and chose to continue to do it. I have
sympathy for a college guy who picks up a girl in a bar, or at a party,
then later finds out she was underage. If they are portraying
themselves as adults, in an adult situation, it's damn near impossible
to be sure how old they are. Those IMO are 90% the teens fault and
should be looked at differently, but when someone knowingly gets
involved with a preteen there's no excuse in hell that works for me.
Older teenagers are a tough call given that a large percentage are
already sexually active, and the age of consent/marriage age was much
lower in the past so those get messy and filled with lots of gray
areas.
Bill C

[Philip W. Moore, Jr.]

"Mike Jacoubowsky" > wrote in message
. ..
> > According to the folowing race results it looks like he is riding again
> > ( if it is the same person)
>
> Somebody is recycling very old news.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
>
He better stay out of jail too, or he'll be trying to escape hummers rather
than hammers.

[Bob Schwartz]

Curtis L. Russell > wrote:
> Maybe not 11, but I clearly remember every guy that was hanging around
> the Michigan State University tennis courts hitting on two girls that
> we thought were coeds. Their mother, who looked like a slightly older
> sister, informed us when she showed up that they were 13 and 15.

When I was 15 I figured out that if I went into a bar and asked
for a beer, and didn't look nervous, the bartender would get
me a beer.

I don't believe that would have worked at 11. I must confess that
I didn't run the experiment.

Bob Schwartz

[B. Lafferty]

"Philip W. Moore, Jr." > wrote in message
m...
>
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> > According to the folowing race results it looks like he is riding again
>> > ( if it is the same person)
>>
>> Somebody is recycling very old news.
>>
>> --Mike Jacoubowsky
>> Chain Reaction Bicycles
>> www.ChainReaction.com
>> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>>
>>
> He better stay out of jail too, or he'll be trying to escape hummers
> rather
> than hammers.

If MJ is convicted, do you think they'll give him a chance to moonwalk
before they fill up his dance card?

[Stewart Fleming]

Bob Schwartz wrote:

> When I was 15 I figured out that if I went into a bar and asked
> for a beer, and didn't look nervous, the bartender would get
> me a beer.

This would probably have worked unless the bartender asked "What kind of
beer?"

[Bob Schwartz]

Stewart Fleming > wrote:

> Bob Schwartz wrote:

>> When I was 15 I figured out that if I went into a bar and asked
>> for a beer, and didn't look nervous, the bartender would get
>> me a beer.

> This would probably have worked unless the bartender asked "What kind of
> beer?"

In the US all beer is the same. So that wasn't an issue.

Bob Schwartz

[Curtis L. Russell]

On Wed, 04 May 2005 17:50:51 -0000, Bob Schwartz >
wrote:

>When I was 15 I figured out that if I went into a bar and asked
>for a beer, and didn't look nervous, the bartender would get
>me a beer.
>
>I don't believe that would have worked at 11. I must confess that
>I didn't run the experiment.

The age was 21 in Michigan when I attended MSU. I stopped in and
bought a diet coke on the way to work every wiork day for a few weeks.
When I finally did buy a six pack, they barely noticed.

OTOH, I bought a six pack of Strohs. While it certainly matched up
well with the Bali Hai I drank as wine, it set me on a path of cheap
beer that I didn't shake for decades. I wouldn't have minded as much
if I had made the trifecta with cheap women. Its tough to find women
impressed with a date of Bali Hai and/or Strohs, or, on a big night, a
pitcher of Sangria.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

[[email protected]]

Boyer has paid his debt assuming he does not violate his probation. I
hope he finds his place in cycling if he chooses & lives a happy life.
He was one hell of a bike racer!

[zelig]

> Its tough to find women impressed with a date of Bali Hai and/or
Strohs, or, on a
> big night, a pitcher of Sangria.


that's why you gotta get 'em young... ;-)

[[email protected]]

11 years old--that's 5th grade. Think about it. He was 41. Not 21
and thinking he was with an 18 year old. He was a 41 year old with a
5th grader you stupid asshole. He's a child molester. I don't give a
**** what kind of cyclist he was. His legacy is ****.

[Bill C]

wrote:
> Boyer has paid his debt assuming he does not violate his probation. I
> hope he finds his place in cycling if he chooses & lives a happy
life.
> He was one hell of a bike racer!

BFD when does the girl get to have a normal life without needing
counseling? He hasn't paid ****. I love you people who are happy to let
criminals go happily on their way, saying "They paid their debt" while
an awful lot of times the victims get **** for sympathy and spend the
rest of their life trying to find ways to live with what the criminal
did to them while people like you advocate for better treatment and
more programs for the criminals.
Bill C

[Tim Lines]

Bill C wrote:
> wrote:
>
>>Boyer has paid his debt assuming he does not violate his probation. I
>>hope he finds his place in cycling if he chooses & lives a happy
>
> life.
>
>>He was one hell of a bike racer!
>
>
> BFD when does the girl get to have a normal life without needing
> counseling? He hasn't paid ****. I love you people who are happy to let
> criminals go happily on their way, saying "They paid their debt" while
> an awful lot of times the victims get **** for sympathy and spend the
> rest of their life trying to find ways to live with what the criminal
> did to them while people like you advocate for better treatment and
> more programs for the criminals.
> Bill C
>

If they had killed Boyer, as you advocate, do you imagine the girl would
no longer need counseling?

[Carl Sundquist]

"Bill C" > wrote in message
>
> That's the thing, it didn't take you guys long to find out how young
> they were, and back off. I agree with you about the 15yr old
> especially. There are plenty that could pass for 18, and do, but Boyer
> knew exactly what he was doing and chose to continue to do it. I have
> sympathy for a college guy who picks up a girl in a bar, or at a party,
> then later finds out she was underage. If they are portraying
> themselves as adults, in an adult situation, it's damn near impossible
> to be sure how old they are. Those IMO are 90% the teens fault and
> should be looked at differently, but when someone knowingly gets
> involved with a preteen there's no excuse in hell that works for me.
> Older teenagers are a tough call given that a large percentage are
> already sexually active, and the age of consent/marriage age was much
> lower in the past so those get messy and filled with lots of gray
> areas.
> Bill C
>

Not to mention hormone supplements in food are supposedly causing children
to physically mature more quickly and society seems to think it's more and
more acceptable for girls to dress in styles more suited for older than they
are.

However, anyway you look at it it's unexcusable. Guys know that girls dress
up to look older than they are, but many think they have a chance to get in
there, they don't want to blow it by asking questions (if they even care).

[Bill C]

Tim Lines wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > wrote:
> >
> >>Boyer has paid his debt assuming he does not violate his probation.
I
> >>hope he finds his place in cycling if he chooses & lives a happy
> >
> > life.
> >
> >>He was one hell of a bike racer!
> >
> >
> > BFD when does the girl get to have a normal life without needing
> > counseling? He hasn't paid ****. I love you people who are happy to
let
> > criminals go happily on their way, saying "They paid their debt"
while
> > an awful lot of times the victims get **** for sympathy and spend
the
> > rest of their life trying to find ways to live with what the
criminal
> > did to them while people like you advocate for better treatment and
> > more programs for the criminals.
> > Bill C
> >
>
> If they had killed Boyer, as you advocate, do you imagine the girl
would
> no longer need counseling?

Nope but I can sure as hell guarantee he'd never do it to anyone else.
Can you guarantee that for all the repeat sex offenders that keep being
let loose?
Canada finally held a shrink responsible for turning one of them loose
recently, it's about time we do the same thing here.

[Bill C]

Bill C wrote:
> Tim Lines wrote:
> > Bill C wrote:
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >>Boyer has paid his debt assuming he does not violate his
probation.
> I
> > >>hope he finds his place in cycling if he chooses & lives a happy
> > >
> > > life.
> > >
> > >>He was one hell of a bike racer!
> > >
> > >
> > > BFD when does the girl get to have a normal life without needing
> > > counseling? He hasn't paid ****. I love you people who are happy
to
> let
> > > criminals go happily on their way, saying "They paid their debt"
> while
> > > an awful lot of times the victims get **** for sympathy and spend
> the
> > > rest of their life trying to find ways to live with what the
> criminal
> > > did to them while people like you advocate for better treatment
and
> > > more programs for the criminals.
> > > Bill C
> > >
> >
> > If they had killed Boyer, as you advocate, do you imagine the girl
> would
> > no longer need counseling?
>
> Nope but I can sure as hell guarantee he'd never do it to anyone
else.
> Can you guarantee that for all the repeat sex offenders that keep
being
> let loose?
> Canada finally held a shrink responsible for turning one of them
loose
> recently, it's about time we do the same thing here.

Here's a link to a story on the new Florida law and what it's going to
cost to add to keeping track of these scumbags. I can think of a hell
of a lot of better things to do with 7+million dollars than buying gps
**** and tracking these peoples by satellite so they can live a
"normal" life.
I have zero sympathy and think they should suffer at least as much and
as long as their victims, unfortunately it seems, very few do, and do
reoffend.
Bill C

[Bill C]

Bill C wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > Tim Lines wrote:
> > > Bill C wrote:
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>Boyer has paid his debt assuming he does not violate his
> probation.
> > I
> > > >>hope he finds his place in cycling if he chooses & lives a
happy
> > > >
> > > > life.
> > > >
> > > >>He was one hell of a bike racer!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > BFD when does the girl get to have a normal life without
needing
> > > > counseling? He hasn't paid ****. I love you people who are
happy
> to
> > let
> > > > criminals go happily on their way, saying "They paid their
debt"
> > while
> > > > an awful lot of times the victims get **** for sympathy and
spend
> > the
> > > > rest of their life trying to find ways to live with what the
> > criminal
> > > > did to them while people like you advocate for better treatment
> and
> > > > more programs for the criminals.
> > > > Bill C
> > > >
> > >
> > > If they had killed Boyer, as you advocate, do you imagine the
girl
> > would
> > > no longer need counseling?
> >
> > Nope but I can sure as hell guarantee he'd never do it to anyone
> else.
> > Can you guarantee that for all the repeat sex offenders that keep
> being
> > let loose?
> > Canada finally held a shrink responsible for turning one of them
> loose
> > recently, it's about time we do the same thing here.
>
> Here's a link to a story on the new Florida law and what it's going
to
> cost to add to keeping track of these scumbags. I can think of a hell
> of a lot of better things to do with 7+million dollars than buying
gps
> **** and tracking these peoples by satellite so they can live a
> "normal" life.
> I have zero sympathy and think they should suffer at least as much
and
> as long as their victims, unfortunately it seems, very few do, and do
> reoffend.
> Bill C

Since I'm a moron sometimes, here's the link too:
http://www.local10.com/news/4439129/detail.html

[Bill C]

Tim Lines wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > wrote:
> >
> >>Boyer has paid his debt assuming he does not violate his probation.
I
> >>hope he finds his place in cycling if he chooses & lives a happy
> >
> > life.
> >
> >>He was one hell of a bike racer!
> >
> >
> > BFD when does the girl get to have a normal life without needing
> > counseling? He hasn't paid ****. I love you people who are happy to
let
> > criminals go happily on their way, saying "They paid their debt"
while
> > an awful lot of times the victims get **** for sympathy and spend
the
> > rest of their life trying to find ways to live with what the
criminal
> > did to them while people like you advocate for better treatment and
> > more programs for the criminals.
> > Bill C
> >
>
> If they had killed Boyer, as you advocate, do you imagine the girl
would
> no longer need counseling?

Just call me CritPro for replying to myself. Honestly, yes I think it
would at least remove the fear which a lot of victims continue to
express especially when then criminal is released. A lot of these
people live in terror of it happening again because the criminal is
walking around free, and we've all seen how effective restraining
orders and court orders are in stopping the murder and rape of women.
If you like I'd be happy to take you for a 10 minute walk from here to
show you a little brass plate in the sidewalk directly across the
street from the front door of the police station where a woman was
brutally murdered by a man she had a restraining order aginst who had
violated it several times before and nothing much had been done. It
seems it never is until there's another rape or murder.
Bill C

[Tom Kunich]

You know Bill, no one has spoken about what really happened and I think that
we aren't getting anything like a good look at what happened.

I really don't have a lot of trust in the Liberals DA's in power in this
state. Remember that they let that truck driver go saying that there was no
evidence that he meant to run over and kill the guy he'd just thrown a truck
tire chock at and was screaming curses at.


"Bill C" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Bill C wrote:
>> Tim Lines wrote:
>> > Bill C wrote:
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >>Boyer has paid his debt assuming he does not violate his
> probation.
>> I
>> > >>hope he finds his place in cycling if he chooses & lives a happy
>> > >
>> > > life.
>> > >
>> > >>He was one hell of a bike racer!
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > BFD when does the girl get to have a normal life without needing
>> > > counseling? He hasn't paid ****. I love you people who are happy
> to
>> let
>> > > criminals go happily on their way, saying "They paid their debt"
>> while
>> > > an awful lot of times the victims get **** for sympathy and spend
>> the
>> > > rest of their life trying to find ways to live with what the
>> criminal
>> > > did to them while people like you advocate for better treatment
> and
>> > > more programs for the criminals.
>> > > Bill C
>> > >
>> >
>> > If they had killed Boyer, as you advocate, do you imagine the girl
>> would
>> > no longer need counseling?
>>
>> Nope but I can sure as hell guarantee he'd never do it to anyone
> else.
>> Can you guarantee that for all the repeat sex offenders that keep
> being
>> let loose?
>> Canada finally held a shrink responsible for turning one of them
> loose
>> recently, it's about time we do the same thing here.
>
> Here's a link to a story on the new Florida law and what it's going to
> cost to add to keeping track of these scumbags. I can think of a hell
> of a lot of better things to do with 7+million dollars than buying gps
> **** and tracking these peoples by satellite so they can live a
> "normal" life.
> I have zero sympathy and think they should suffer at least as much and
> as long as their victims, unfortunately it seems, very few do, and do
> reoffend.
> Bill C
>

[Bill C]

Tim Lines wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > Casey Kerrigan wrote:
> >
> >>In article et>,
> >>Claudius Vitalis > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Boyer recently pleaded guilty to seven counts of child molestation
> >
> > and three
> >
> >>>counts of genital penetration involving a young girl. Boyer was
> >
> > sentenced to
> >
> >>>one year in jail in a Monterey County, California, facility. Upon
> >
> > release,
> >
> >>>Boyer will serve a five-year probation. If he violates this
> >
> > probation, he
> >
> >>>will serve 20 years. The judge suspended the 20-year sentence,
> >
> > believing
> >
> >>>Boyer was a good candidate for rehabilitation. He must also
> >
> > register as a
> >
> >>>sex offender.
> >>>----------------------
> >>>
> >>>Do they have a training bike in jail?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>According to the folowing race results it looks like he is riding
> >
> > again
> >
> >>( if it is the same person)
> >>
> >>Cantua Creek RR from 2/21/05
> >>Master 35+ 1/2/3_____22 riders
> >> Race# Rider Team
> >
> > Hometown
> >
> >>1 374 Michael Hutchinson Team Spine Napa
> >>2 376 Michael Hernandez TEAM SPINE RENO
> >>3 365 Jonathan Boyer Unattached MARINA
> >>4 366 Billy Clark Morgan Stanley
> >
> > LIVERMORE
> >
> >>5 362 Clint Gaver Team Spine LOS
> >
> > GATOS
> >
> >>6 367 Stephen Gregorios Morgan Stanley TRACY
> >>
> >>The full results are at http://www.velopromo.com/cant-rl05.htm
> >
> >
> >
http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/2004/04/18/sports/8460825.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp
> >
> > Quoted:
> > Boyer understands the skepticism. He accepts the doubts. He does
not go
> > so far as to say he is innocent of the charges. But has contended
from
> > the beginning that things are not as ugly as they appear.
> >
> > "There are things that happened that I don't feel good about," he
said.
> > "I wish I could say more. The situation is so much different that
it is
> > perceived by the public. To begin to try to explain would be too
> > difficult."
> >
> > What a surprise that some judge who doesn't have to take any
> > responsibility when this scumbag abuses another kid set his ass
loose,
> > even though he really doesn't seem to think he did anything too
bad.
> > This POS should've had his sack ripped off, after the appeal
failed,
> > right in the courtroom then been shot in the head with a .45 on the
> > spot. These judges and shrinks that keep turning these predators
loose
> > should be held civilly accountable for the damage they cause too.
> > Proudly libertarian fascist
> > Bill C
> >
>
> The concept of libertarian fascism is interesting, to say the least.
And
> you said KERRY was a flip flopper.

There is no flip-flop required. It's really very simple. For a society
to be able to provide the maximum amount of freedom to all it's people
this is going to require a lot of responsibility from the people. If
the societal compact values freedom, there has to be an equal
commitment to protecting those freedoms from people who choose to break
the compact. The only way freedom doesn't descend into anarchy is when
there are commonly established bounds which are respected by the
people. If people are allowed to violate these agreements without
significant penalty the system descends into chaos. This is where the
fascist approach comes in. The people who repeatedly choose to violate
the social compact remove themselves from it's protections. That also
goes for horrendous crimes such as serial murder, or violent rape, or
violent hate crimes. Freedom is balanced by responsibility to respect
others freedoms. I have very little to no sympathy for people who
brutally, or repeatedly violate others.
Bill C

[Bill C]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> You know Bill, no one has spoken about what really happened and I
think that
> we aren't getting anything like a good look at what happened.
>
> I really don't have a lot of trust in the Liberals DA's in power in
this
> state. Remember that they let that truck driver go saying that there
was no
> evidence that he meant to run over and kill the guy he'd just thrown
a truck
> tire chock at and was screaming curses at.
>
>
> "Bill C" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > Bill C wrote:
> >> Tim Lines wrote:
> >> > Bill C wrote:
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >>Boyer has paid his debt assuming he does not violate his
> > probation.
> >> I
> >> > >>hope he finds his place in cycling if he chooses & lives a
happy
> >> > >
> >> > > life.
> >> > >
> >> > >>He was one hell of a bike racer!
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > BFD when does the girl get to have a normal life without
needing
> >> > > counseling? He hasn't paid ****. I love you people who are
happy
> > to
> >> let
> >> > > criminals go happily on their way, saying "They paid their
debt"
> >> while
> >> > > an awful lot of times the victims get **** for sympathy and
spend
> >> the
> >> > > rest of their life trying to find ways to live with what the
> >> criminal
> >> > > did to them while people like you advocate for better
treatment
> > and
> >> > > more programs for the criminals.
> >> > > Bill C
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > If they had killed Boyer, as you advocate, do you imagine the
girl
> >> would
> >> > no longer need counseling?
> >>
> >> Nope but I can sure as hell guarantee he'd never do it to anyone
> > else.
> >> Can you guarantee that for all the repeat sex offenders that keep
> > being
> >> let loose?
> >> Canada finally held a shrink responsible for turning one of them
> > loose
> >> recently, it's about time we do the same thing here.
> >
> > Here's a link to a story on the new Florida law and what it's going
to
> > cost to add to keeping track of these scumbags. I can think of a
hell
> > of a lot of better things to do with 7+million dollars than buying
gps
> > **** and tracking these peoples by satellite so they can live a
> > "normal" life.
> > I have zero sympathy and think they should suffer at least as much
and
> > as long as their victims, unfortunately it seems, very few do, and
do
> > reoffend.
> > Bill C
> >
Hi Tom
Here's some more from another Fla. piece. I want to run through some of
the info and numbers from it.
free registration is sometimes required
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/11556706.htm

1,100 CONVICTIONS

Since 2000, more than 1,100 people have been convicted of child
molestation, but their sentences were often light. Nearly one in three
received probation, less than half got more than five years and only 98
landed 25 years or more.

More than 1,500 people since 2000 were convicted for failing to
register on FDLE's list of 34,000 sex offenders. But even though the
law increases the penalty for failing to register -- requiring a
minimum of 21 months in prison -- legislative researchers predict that
plea bargains will keep many out of prison.

Experts also urge caution on another cornerstone of the legislation:
lifetime monitoring of sexual offenders via 1,200 new ankle bracelets
that use GPS, or Global Positioning System, technology. They will cost
$4 million in the first year alone.

Psychologists who treat and evaluate sexual offenders say the state
will have to be judicious in using the bracelets if they're going to
work.

END QUOTE
This gives a look at the scale of the problem. Now here we get into
some more numbers.

QUOTED
FEW REOFFEND

Some question the utility of lifetime monitoring since studies show
most sexual offenders don't reoffend once they're caught -- contrary to
popular belief. Studies show the base recidivism rate for sexual
offenders is just 10 to 15 percent.

''It's important to remember that not all sexual offenders are likely
to reoffend,'' said Dr. Karl Hanson, an internationally renowned
specialist with the Department of Solicitor General of Canada who has
authored dozens of sexual offender studies.

The recidivism rates for even the most dangerous sexual offenders drop
to almost zero once they reach age 70, studies show, raising more
questions about how cost effective it is to track offenders for life.

END QUOTE
They seem to feel that they have a handle on who is most likely to
reoffend and I would have no problem at all with probation and
treatment with close monitoring on those they feel are not threats,
until they did reoffend when I would remove them from society for good,
whether through a life without parole sentence or execution.
They seem to be averaging 220 convictions a year, and as pointed out
these are only the strongest of the cases. We'll use the recidivism
rate of 10% since it's smaller and easier. That gives you 22 offenders
who are creating new victims, even if it's only 22 children, and not
multiple victims per offender I'm not willing to sacrifice 22 children
per year in one state alone to protect these scumbags. That's a minimum
of 22 innocent victims because we chose to put the criminals first.
Doesn't work for me.
Bill C

[CyclePro]

"Bill C" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Curtis L. Russell wrote:
>> On 3 May 2005 18:20:22 -0700, "Bill C" > wrote:
>>
>> > This took place over several years, she was a pre-teen. You are
> making
>> >the excuse that since it wasn't a boy, and she looked older (to
> whom?
>> >I've never seen a pre-teen who looks 18) that it's ok?
>> > You are one sick **** too.
>>
>> Maybe not 11, but I clearly remember every guy that was hanging
> around
>> the Michigan State University tennis courts hitting on two girls that
>> we thought were coeds. Their mother, who looked like a slightly older
>> sister, informed us when she showed up that they were 13 and 15.
>>
>> Figuring that the 13 year old was statuatory made me feel queasy, but
>> the rest of the impressions I have to admit affected me otherwise...
>>
>> Curtis L. Russell
>> Odenton, MD (USA)
>> Just someone on two wheels...
>
> That's the thing, it didn't take you guys long to find out how young
> they were, and back off. I agree with you about the 15yr old
> especially. There are plenty that could pass for 18, and do, but Boyer
> knew exactly what he was doing and chose to continue to do it. I have
> sympathy for a college guy who picks up a girl in a bar, or at a party,
> then later finds out she was underage. If they are portraying
> themselves as adults, in an adult situation, it's damn near impossible
> to be sure how old they are. Those IMO are 90% the teens fault and
> should be looked at differently, but when someone knowingly gets
> involved with a preteen there's no excuse in hell that works for me.
> Older teenagers are a tough call given that a large percentage are
> already sexually active, and the age of consent/marriage age was much
> lower in the past so those get messy and filled with lots of gray
> areas.
> Bill C

Teacher cleared over sex with 14-year-old
Court angers child rights campaigners

Giles Tremlett in Madrid
Thursday May 5, 2005

Guardian

Parents groups and children's rights campaigners demanded changes to Spain's
sexual abuse laws yesterday after the country's highest court ruled that
there was "nothing perverse or extravagant" about a teacher having sex with
a 14-year-old schoolgirl.
Overturning a previous ruling, the supreme court threw out the case against
a 31-year-old karate tutor who had sex on at least six occasions with the
girl he had taught at a secondary school in the southern town of Aguilar de
la Frontera. The girl later sought psychiatric treatment.

The part-time teacher, named only as José M, was also a member of the town's
police force.

His one-year suspended jail term has been quashed and he is now eligible to
return to work.

"I do not give my children over to a teacher so that they can be taken
advantage of," Luis Carbonel, of the Catholic Confederation of Parents'
Associations, said yesterday.

"If teachers cannot be punished for doing this then there will have to be a
change in the law," he added.

The supreme court argued that, with Spaniards able to marry at the age of 14
if they have their parents' consent, there was nothing untoward about a girl
having sex with a teacher at such a young age.

"All we can do is consider this to be an early start to sexual activity,
though it is not exactly exceptional in the current times," the court said,
according to a report in the ABC daily and other newspapers.

The teacher was deemed not to have taken advantage of the girl when they had
sex at his house and at his father's garage in the town.

The supreme court pointed to a lack of "violence, intimidation or trickery"
on the part of the teacher.

"The essence of the acts is normal," it said.

However, the court's ruling caused uproar among parents groups.

"A 14-year-old girl is not old enough to take decisions of this kind," Ginés
Martínez, head of Spain's lay Confederation of Spanish Parents
Organisations, said in an interview with La Razon newspaper.

Spain, however, has one of the lowest ages of consent in the world, at just
13.

This was raised from 12 in 1999 by the conservative People's party
government of former prime minister José María Aznar.

"We see the age of consent as very low," said Carmen González, of the Madrid
regional government's Children's Ombudsman's office. "We think it should
probably go up to 14."

Other European countries generally place the age of con sent at between 14
and 16 - although it is 17 in Ireland.

The court overturned a suspended one-year jail sentence for corrupting a
minor and a six-month ban on the police officer working as a public servant.
It said that, while the girl had shown signs of "serious alterations" in her
personality and a "marked fall" in her school work, it could not be said
that her relationship with the teacher would produce significant problems in
her future sex life.

The anxiety she had shown, it said, could just as well have been caused by
her parents' reaction to finding out about the relationship as by the fact
that she had sex with her teacher.

The court recognised that the teacher had made his first approaches to the
girl during karate lessons, turning the physical contact of the sport into
something more intimate.

It said the most remarkable thing about the relationship was the age
difference between girl and teacher.


>

[Bob Schwartz]

wrote:
> Boyer has paid his debt assuming he does not violate his probation. I
> hope he finds his place in cycling if he chooses & lives a happy life.
> He was one hell of a bike racer!

I remember the 1980 Coors Classic. The Colombian national team showed
up and caused enormous pain in the high altitudes of Colorado. Going
into the final stage Antonio Londono had it won. Until Jonathan Boyer
took three laps out of him in the final stage crit to win, aided by
a nationalistic peloton that refused to chase him.

Later that year he and George Mount were the only US entrants for the
viscous World Championship race at Sallanches. Hinault crushed the
field to win. Boyer recorded what was then the best US result in modern
times in finishing 5th.

There is no doubt he was a hell of a bike racer.

My daughter is 10. I can not imagine her hooking up with a guy like
Boyer and not needing extensive brain mechanic salvage work. His case
reminds me that we need to have a talk about people like that. He stole
someone's childhood, and was lucky enough to have done that in a state
where the jails are already full.

Bob Schwartz

[Kyle Legate]

CyclePro wrote:
>
> Teacher cleared over sex with 14-year-old
> Court angers child rights campaigners
>
> Giles Tremlett in Madrid
> Thursday May 5, 2005
>
The other side of the coin:

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/05/04/teacher-050504.html

[CyclePro]

"Kyle Legate" > wrote in message
...
> CyclePro wrote:
>>
>> Teacher cleared over sex with 14-year-old
>> Court angers child rights campaigners
>>
>> Giles Tremlett in Madrid
>> Thursday May 5, 2005
>>
> The other side of the coin:
>
> http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/05/04/teacher-050504.html

Moral=Know your culture.

[Tim Lines]

Bill C wrote:
> Tim Lines wrote:
>
>>Bill C wrote:
>>
wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Boyer has paid his debt assuming he does not violate his probation.
>
> I
>
>>>>hope he finds his place in cycling if he chooses & lives a happy
>>>
>>>life.
>>>
>>>
>>>>He was one hell of a bike racer!
>>>
>>>
>>>BFD when does the girl get to have a normal life without needing
>>>counseling? He hasn't paid ****. I love you people who are happy to
>
> let
>
>>>criminals go happily on their way, saying "They paid their debt"
>
> while
>
>>>an awful lot of times the victims get **** for sympathy and spend
>
> the
>
>>>rest of their life trying to find ways to live with what the
>
> criminal
>
>>>did to them while people like you advocate for better treatment and
>>>more programs for the criminals.
>>>Bill C
>>>
>>
>>If they had killed Boyer, as you advocate, do you imagine the girl
>
> would
>
>>no longer need counseling?
>
>
> Just call me CritPro for replying to myself. Honestly, yes I think it
> would at least remove the fear which a lot of victims continue to
> express especially when then criminal is released. A lot of these
> people live in terror of it happening again because the criminal is
> walking around free, and we've all seen how effective restraining
> orders and court orders are in stopping the murder and rape of women.
> If you like I'd be happy to take you for a 10 minute walk from here to
> show you a little brass plate in the sidewalk directly across the
> street from the front door of the police station where a woman was
> brutally murdered by a man she had a restraining order aginst who had
> violated it several times before and nothing much had been done. It
> seems it never is until there's another rape or murder.
> Bill C
>

We write laws for, in this case, "Domestic Violence". Then they get
used in all sorts of ways. In 2 cases I'm aware of, women claimed that
their husbands had violated restraining orders simply because it was an
interesting way to mess with their husbands. In this state the cops
will put you in jail for that, if they happen to stumble across you.
It's not like they're going to go looking real hard.

The point here is that the law is the law while people, on the other
hand, are squirrely as hell. The law recognizes the squirreliness by
giving the judge latitude in determining punishment. It all breaks down
because court rooms are unlikely places for truth to emerge. I think
judges recognize this and tend to err on the side of leniency.

There's only one solution to crime I've ever seen that worked. There's
a latte (drive through coffee) stand in the small (~5000) town where I
live. They sell all kinds of coffee and donuts and they hire young,
busty blondes with unbelievable cleavage to lean out the window and hand
you your coffee. That place has the best damned police protection on
this planet. Don't waste your time messing with THAT place, better to
take your chances with Ft. Knox instead.

Cleavage. That's the answer.

[h squared]

Tim Lines wrote:

> There's only one solution to crime I've ever seen that worked. There's
> a latte (drive through coffee) stand in the small (~5000) town where I
> live. They sell all kinds of coffee and donuts and they hire young,
> busty blondes with unbelievable cleavage to lean out the window and hand
> you your coffee. That place has the best damned police protection on
> this planet. Don't waste your time messing with THAT place, better to
> take your chances with Ft. Knox instead.
>
> Cleavage. That's the answer.

hey! just last nite i was telling my bf about my latest business idea:

a drive thru coffee stand where you can also feel up the "barista"'s
boobs for added $$. think no bras and thin white ribbed tee shirts. it
would only need to be open a few hours each morning to rake it in, i
know it.
hh, entrepreneur

[Curtis L. Russell]

On Thu, 05 May 2005 13:59:20 -0000, Bob Schwartz >
wrote:

>There is no doubt he was a hell of a bike racer.

He raced at the Butterfly Criterium in Pacific Grove in 1972 when he
was, I think, 16. Can't remember if he won, but he rode at the front
with the big guns quite a bit older. Lots of talent, but there wasn't
any script to go Continental then, and the teams probably didn't give
him the same opportunity as Lemond would get a few years later. He did
well, but I think he could have been a contender.

A George Mount makes a Boyer possible, then a Lemond. Then along comes
Hincapie with those stupid sun glasses and shoes and they're ready to
throw us off the Continent again...

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

[B. Lafferty]

"Curtis L. Russell" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 05 May 2005 13:59:20 -0000, Bob Schwartz >
> wrote:
>
>>There is no doubt he was a hell of a bike racer.
>
> He raced at the Butterfly Criterium in Pacific Grove in 1972 when he
> was, I think, 16. Can't remember if he won, but he rode at the front
> with the big guns quite a bit older. Lots of talent, but there wasn't
> any script to go Continental then, and the teams probably didn't give
> him the same opportunity as Lemond would get a few years later. He did
> well, but I think he could have been a contender.
>
> A George Mount makes a Boyer possible, then a Lemond.

Don't forget Mike Neel.

[Bill C]

h squared wrote:
> Tim Lines wrote:
>
> > There's only one solution to crime I've ever seen that worked.
There's
> > a latte (drive through coffee) stand in the small (~5000) town
where I
> > live. They sell all kinds of coffee and donuts and they hire
young,
> > busty blondes with unbelievable cleavage to lean out the window and
hand
> > you your coffee. That place has the best damned police protection
on
> > this planet. Don't waste your time messing with THAT place, better
to
> > take your chances with Ft. Knox instead.
> >
> > Cleavage. That's the answer.
>
> hey! just last nite i was telling my bf about my latest business
idea:
>
> a drive thru coffee stand where you can also feel up the "barista"'s
> boobs for added $$. think no bras and thin white ribbed tee shirts.
it
> would only need to be open a few hours each morning to rake it in, i
> know it.
> hh, entrepreneur

You've definitely got the secret. I think most guys IQs drop about
10pts per inch with bust sizes over 32. Then there are the bonuses for
additional cup sizes. Dave Barry's got a lot of funny stuff on the
subject that's worth reading and pretty accurate.
Bill C

[Tim Lines]

h squared wrote:
> Tim Lines wrote:
>
>> There's only one solution to crime I've ever seen that worked.
>> There's a latte (drive through coffee) stand in the small (~5000) town
>> where I live. They sell all kinds of coffee and donuts and they hire
>> young, busty blondes with unbelievable cleavage to lean out the window
>> and hand you your coffee. That place has the best damned police
>> protection on this planet. Don't waste your time messing with THAT
>> place, better to take your chances with Ft. Knox instead.
>>
>> Cleavage. That's the answer.
>
>
> hey! just last nite i was telling my bf about my latest business idea:
>
> a drive thru coffee stand where you can also feel up the "barista"'s
> boobs for added $$. think no bras and thin white ribbed tee shirts. it
> would only need to be open a few hours each morning to rake it in, i
> know it.
> hh, entrepreneur
>

I hate to admit it, but I drink instant coffee. I know, I know, very
unSeattle-ish but it's quick and simple.

I might have to change my habits.

Something to think about: "Oh LOOK! I've spilled cream all OVER
myself!" That ought to raise a few ... er, eyebrows.

I'm pretty sure lap dances are just a tad too far.

Your biggest problem here is King Co.'s long standing ban on new adult
entertainment establishments. Only those that existed prior to the ban
are allowed to operate. They contribute a LOT of money to see that the
ban stays in place and they would object strenuously to your latte
stands. So, you know, half price for politicians and cops or something.

[Howard Kveck]

In article >,
h squared > wrote:

> Tim Lines wrote:
>
> > There's only one solution to crime I've ever seen that worked. There's
> > a latte (drive through coffee) stand in the small (~5000) town where I
> > live. They sell all kinds of coffee and donuts and they hire young,
> > busty blondes with unbelievable cleavage to lean out the window and hand
> > you your coffee. That place has the best damned police protection on
> > this planet. Don't waste your time messing with THAT place, better to
> > take your chances with Ft. Knox instead.
> >
> > Cleavage. That's the answer.
>
> hey! just last nite i was telling my bf about my latest business idea:
>
> a drive thru coffee stand where you can also feel up the "barista"'s
> boobs for added $$. think no bras and thin white ribbed tee shirts. it
> would only need to be open a few hours each morning to rake it in, i
> know it.
> hh, entrepreneur

That's certainly one way to pay for dog chemo, H. Were you planning on
being the sleazy manager? Franchises?

--
tanx,
Howard

Butter is love.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

[Stewart Fleming]

h squared wrote:

> hey! just last nite i was telling my bf about my latest business idea:
>
> a drive thru coffee stand where you can also feel up the "barista"'s
> boobs for added $$. think no bras and thin white ribbed tee shirts. it
> would only need to be open a few hours each morning to rake it in, i
> know it.

heather, I note that your business plan cuts out about half of your
potential market. so to add to your setup, may i suggest an attached
donut stall manned by hunky males. i mean real donuts, the ones with
the hole in the middle. not wanting to blow my own trumpet, but I can
carry 8 and two cups of coffee, if you know what i'm saying...

[Donald Munro]

h squared wrote:
>
>> hey! just last nite i was telling my bf about my latest business idea:
>>
>> a drive thru coffee stand where you can also feel up the "barista"'s
>> boobs for added $$. think no bras and thin white ribbed tee shirts. it
>> would only need to be open a few hours each morning to rake it in, i
>> know it.

Stewart Fleming wrote:
> heather, I note that your business plan cuts out about half of your
> potential market. so to add to your setup, may i suggest an attached
> donut stall manned by hunky males. i mean real donuts, the ones with
> the hole in the middle. not wanting to blow my own trumpet, but I can
> carry 8 and two cups of coffee, if you know what i'm saying...

I hope your spreadsheet model of the plan includes the cost of viagra
(bought in bulk of course).

[Tim Mullin]

Stewart Fleming > wrote in news:427b1877
@clear.net.nz:

> I can carry 8 and two cups of coffee, if you know what i'm saying...

I believe you're saying you're a needle dick, pasrty porker.

[Tim Mullin]

Tim Mullin > wrote in news:waNee.4498$pe3.584
@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:

> I believe you're saying you're a needle dick, pasrty porker.

Unless this this the pastry in question,

www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2004/0720donutcloud.html

[Stewart Fleming]

Tim Mullin wrote:

> Stewart Fleming > wrote in news:427b1877
> @clear.net.nz:
>
>
>>I can carry 8 and two cups of coffee, if you know what i'm saying...
>
>
> I believe you're saying you're a needle dick, pasrty porker.

This has been scientifically studied in Australia.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/rocko72/Donut.html

[h squared]

Tim Lines wrote:

> I hate to admit it, but I drink instant coffee. I know, I know, very
> unSeattle-ish but it's quick and simple.

they have these machines called "coffee makers" that do the work for you
while you shower, tim. i'm thinking maybe you just like instant coffee.

> Your biggest problem here is King Co.'s long standing ban on new adult
> entertainment establishments. Only those that existed prior to the ban
> are allowed to operate. They contribute a LOT of money to see that the
> ban stays in place and they would object strenuously to your latte
> stands. So, you know, half price for politicians and cops or something.

strangely there was an article about this just today (after you make
your post) in the p.i.

but is my latte stand really adult entertainment? there's no nudity
involved and no sex. i actually came up with the idea from another idea
of where i was going to find some chick with really nice boobs and pay
her $ to let my boyfriend go to town on them, but we couldn't figure out
if it was illegal or not. it's not illegal to pay someone to massage
your nude body, but is it illegal to pay someone to massage THEIR nude
body (with your hands, not your dick)?? we were afraid to call and ask
the government because then they would definitely start "observing" our
house.

h

[h squared]

Howard Kveck wrote:

> That's certainly one way to pay for dog chemo, H. Were you planning on
> being the sleazy manager? Franchises?
>

well, it's just for pretend, but yes i was seeing myself as the sleazy
manager. franchises! lol.
h

[Chris M]

Do you realize you are advocating about summary execution for statutory
rape? I would say that is a very dramatic "flop".

[h squared]

Stewart Fleming wrote:


> heather, I note that your business plan cuts out about half of your
> potential market. so to add to your setup, may i suggest an attached
> donut stall manned by hunky males. i mean real donuts, the ones with
> the hole in the middle. not wanting to blow my own trumpet, but I can
> carry 8 and two cups of coffee, if you know what i'm saying...

stf, your "four donuts- a case study" link made me laugh and laugh.

but i dunno, coffee and boobs are a great combination because men tend
to need both with maximum urgency as soon as possible in the morning.
women are harder to predict that way.

heather

[Jim Flom]

"h squared" > wrote in message
...
> Stewart Fleming wrote:
>
>
>> heather, I note that your business plan cuts out about half of your
>> potential market. so to add to your setup, may i suggest an attached
>> donut stall manned by hunky males. i mean real donuts, the ones with the
>> hole in the middle. not wanting to blow my own trumpet, but I can carry
>> 8 and two cups of coffee, if you know what i'm saying...
>
> stf, your "four donuts- a case study" link made me laugh and laugh.
>
> but i dunno, coffee and boobs are a great combination because men tend to
> need both with maximum urgency as soon as possible in the morning. women
> are harder to predict that way.

On a completely unrelated topic, I rode in Issaquah a couple of weeks ago.
Ahh the glory of riding in the States -- and there's nothing quite so
exhilerating as rush hour traffic.

[h squared]

Jim Flom wrote:


> On a completely unrelated topic, I rode in Issaquah a couple of weeks ago.
> Ahh the glory of riding in the States -- and there's nothing quite so
> exhilerating as rush hour traffic.

well, there are probably a lot of latte stands in issaquah nowadays, the
way things are going in this part of the country.

do you have friends in issaquah? i used to skate there (around the lake
to redmond, and sometimes down highway 900(?) to renton). but yesterday
i rode up and down east and west marginal way in seattle/tukwilla. not
rush hour, but a constant stream of "industrial" vehicles. i'm a baby
now about that kind of stuff, when i got home i was covered in cold
sweat, but you've been toughened up by riding with the vancouver logging
trucks, i'm sure rush hour traffic is a cake walk for you now ;)
heather

[Tom Kunich]

"Bill C" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> They seem to feel that they have a handle on who is most likely to
> reoffend and I would have no problem at all with probation and
> treatment with close monitoring on those they feel are not threats,
> until they did reoffend when I would remove them from society for good,
> whether through a life without parole sentence or execution.
> They seem to be averaging 220 convictions a year, and as pointed out
> these are only the strongest of the cases. We'll use the recidivism
> rate of 10% since it's smaller and easier. That gives you 22 offenders
> who are creating new victims, even if it's only 22 children, and not
> multiple victims per offender I'm not willing to sacrifice 22 children
> per year in one state alone to protect these scumbags. That's a minimum
> of 22 innocent victims because we chose to put the criminals first.
> Doesn't work for me.

I have a voilent reaction to pederasts but this whole thing about
you-know-who wasn't reported and apparently not prosecuted as if that's what
it was. I got the idea that it was something altogether different and they
didn't want to publicize it.

In any case I'd look askance at him but that's about it.

[Tim Mullin]

Stewart Fleming > wrote in news:427bd06b$1
@clear.net.nz:

> This has been scientifically studied in Australia.
> http://members.optusnet.com.au/rocko72/Donut.html

That's some funny ****.

[Jim Flom]

"h squared" > wrote in message
...
>
> do you have friends in issaquah? i used to skate there (around the lake to
> redmond, and sometimes down highway 900(?) to renton). but yesterday i
> rode up and down east and west marginal way in seattle/tukwilla. not rush
> hour, but a constant stream of "industrial" vehicles. i'm a baby now about
> that kind of stuff, when i got home i was covered in cold sweat, but
> you've been toughened up by riding with the vancouver logging trucks, i'm
> sure rush hour traffic is a cake walk for you now ;)
> heather

I was down on business, but seriously, the rush hour traffic was so much
like Philly it was just great. I'd forgotten how much fun it can be.
Logging trucks are momentary flashes of terror. Rush hour is continuous
intensity, like pack riding. It was nicely rolling in Issaqauh, GORGEOUS
country, with good climbs and a sufficiently quirky but helpful LBS guy. I
was going to ride again on Saturday but the lake route sounded too flat and
I get enough of that in this flood plane I'm living in up here, so I shot
home quick. I keep hoping to get down to Bellingham some Saturday morning,
and then there's always the Seattle-Vancouver ride, which i've heard of but
know know nothing about.

Jim

[Tim Lines]

h squared wrote:
> Tim Lines wrote:
>
>> I hate to admit it, but I drink instant coffee. I know, I know, very
>> unSeattle-ish but it's quick and simple.
>
>
> they have these machines called "coffee makers" that do the work for you
> while you shower, tim. i'm thinking maybe you just like instant coffee.

I'd have to think ahead then, wouldn't I? Our last coffee maker was
murdered a mere 2 weeks ago. I'll replace it eventually.

And actually, I don't mind instant coffee. Nor do I mind the stuff from
coffee makers. But stuff from the latte stands tastes WEIRD.
Processed, artificial or something. I just don't like it. Deep inside
me there's a West Virginia boy that thinks this **** just aint right.

And that's just the coffee. Don't get me started on the boobs.
Something about that bothers me too, although I wish it would stop.
>
>> Your biggest problem here is King Co.'s long standing ban on new adult
>> entertainment establishments. Only those that existed prior to the
>> ban are allowed to operate. They contribute a LOT of money to see
>> that the ban stays in place and they would object strenuously to your
>> latte stands. So, you know, half price for politicians and cops or
>> something.
>
>
> strangely there was an article about this just today (after you make
> your post) in the p.i.

Didn't see it, but I've read similar articles before. There are
politicians who ought to lose their careers over this, but they wont.

I don't really know what I think about "adult entertainment" but
influence peddling by politicians is worse in my book than what Boyer did.
>
> but is my latte stand really adult entertainment? there's no nudity
> involved and no sex. i actually came up with the idea from another idea
> of where i was going to find some chick with really nice boobs and pay
> her $ to let my boyfriend go to town on them, but we couldn't figure out
> if it was illegal or not. it's not illegal to pay someone to massage
> your nude body, but is it illegal to pay someone to massage THEIR nude
> body (with your hands, not your dick)?? we were afraid to call and ask
> the government because then they would definitely start "observing" our
> house.
>
> h
>
You're really strange, heather. My wife, OTOH, is jealous of a me and a
woman named Nancy. Nancy just happens to be a lesbian and I don't even
go for those.

I'll save you a lot trouble. You can call ME and ask if it's legal,
then I'll come over and observe. Deal?

[Robert Chung]

h squared wrote:
> but you've been toughened up by riding with the vancouver logging
> trucks, i'm sure rush hour traffic is a cake walk for you now ;)

Riding in NYC is less stressful than riding in Paris.

[Ewoud Dronkert]

On Sat, 7 May 2005 04:56:03 -0400, Robert Chung wrote:
> Riding in NYC is less stressful than riding in Paris.

I think I would be stressing more over not seeing an open sky in NY,
than over traffic in Paris.


--
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[Robert Chung]

Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
> On Sat, 7 May 2005 04:56:03 -0400, Robert Chung wrote:
>> Riding in NYC is less stressful than riding in Paris.
>
> I think I would be stressing more over not seeing an open sky in NY,
> than over traffic in Paris.

In neither place can one afford to look at the sky while riding.

In NYC, however, it is possible to walk along the street without looking
down.

[Stewart Fleming]

h squared wrote:
> but i dunno, coffee and boobs are a great combination because men tend
> to need both with maximum urgency as soon as possible in the morning.
> women are harder to predict that way.

Anecdotally, since decriminalization of prostitution here in NZ, morning
quickies are on the up, so to speak.

Th wedding photographer dropped a good one on me the other
day....tracking the online hits of our wedding, most pictures have the
same rates, except for two, which are double...
http://www.pbase.com/alpineimages
Hall/Fleming wedding, password fleming

[Robert Chung]

Stewart Fleming wrote:
> ...tracking the online hits of our wedding, most pictures have the
> same rates, except for two, which are double...

Oh dear.

I was going to tell your bride to have a donut on me, but then I thought
better of it.

Congratulations.

[Ewoud Dronkert]

On Sat, 7 May 2005 08:34:58 -0400, Robert Chung wrote:
> your bride

His sister?


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[Steven L. Sheffield]

On 05/07/2005 06:02 AM, in article , "Stewart
Fleming" > wrote:

>
>
> h squared wrote:
>> but i dunno, coffee and boobs are a great combination because men tend
>> to need both with maximum urgency as soon as possible in the morning.
>> women are harder to predict that way.
>
> Anecdotally, since decriminalization of prostitution here in NZ, morning
> quickies are on the up, so to speak.
>
> Th wedding photographer dropped a good one on me the other
> day....tracking the online hits of our wedding, most pictures have the
> same rates, except for two, which are double...
> http://www.pbase.com/alpineimages
> Hall/Fleming wedding, password fleming


One would be 274.jpg.

Although I have to admit I really didn't want to catch a look at your
klootzak.

I also now have a good idea of what Jack Sprat and his wife might look like
....


--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [foreword] slash

[Ewoud Dronkert]

On Sat, 07 May 2005 16:20:49 GMT, Steven L. Sheffield wrote:
> your klootzak.

His brother-in-law's?


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[k.papai]

"In the US all beer is the same. So that wasn't an issue.

Bob Schwartz "

If you're talking pre-1985 or so, then yes. Otherwise you're displaying
a lot of ignorance.

-Ken

[h squared]

Stewart Fleming wrote:
>

> Th wedding photographer dropped a good one on me the other
> day....tracking the online hits of our wedding, most pictures have the
> same rates, except for two, which are double...
> http://www.pbase.com/alpineimages
> Hall/Fleming wedding, password fleming

and here i was being shy about modeling underwear from "stolen
underground". now i feel silly :)

nice pictures, looks like it was a fun wedding, thanks for sharing,
heather

[h squared]

Jim Flom wrote:
>

> I was down on business, but seriously, the rush hour traffic was so much
> like Philly it was just great. I'd forgotten how much fun it can be.
> Logging trucks are momentary flashes of terror. Rush hour is continuous
> intensity, like pack riding. It was nicely rolling in Issaqauh, GORGEOUS
> country, with good climbs and a sufficiently quirky but helpful LBS guy. I
> was going to ride again on Saturday but the lake route sounded too flat and
> I get enough of that in this flood plane I'm living in up here, so I shot
> home quick. I keep hoping to get down to Bellingham some Saturday morning,
> and then there's always the Seattle-Vancouver ride, which i've heard of but
> know know nothing about.

lake route *is* flat and not too interesting, which is what made it good
for skating! i lived in bellingham for 5 years to go to school, and i
did ride my bike a ton when i lived there, but it was mostly short hour
or two hour rides so can't remember any particularly spectacular routes
to recommend to you now.

ok now i see what you mean about rush hour traffic, but i still think i
don't like it myself :) (and i was serious about the scary industrial
traffic. i was doing ok until i was going along the short bike path at
the end of the route, but it was blocked by a semi parked all askew
along with several fire trucks and and a couple of police cars carting
away some poor guy who's head was wrapped in bandages on a stretcher. i
don't know how he got hit by the semi, but i was pretty jumpy after
seeing that.)
h

[h squared]

Tim Lines wrote:
>

> And actually, I don't mind instant coffee. Nor do I mind the stuff from
> coffee makers. But stuff from the latte stands tastes WEIRD.
> Processed, artificial or something. I just don't like it. Deep inside
> me there's a West Virginia boy that thinks this **** just aint right.

i don't like it that much either, except for plain espresso mixed with
water. but i only drink coffee coffee, no fancy stuff. deep inside me
is a north dakota house wife who just doesn't want to spend that much
money on a drink.


> You're really strange, heather. My wife, OTOH, is jealous of a me and a
> woman named Nancy. Nancy just happens to be a lesbian and I don't even
> go for those.

i'm sure i would be jealous of the chick with nice boobs if she ever
came over for some legal fun, but my boyfriend loves big boobs so much
that i feel sorry for him being stuck with only my little dealies for
the rest of his life.

> I'll save you a lot trouble. You can call ME and ask if it's legal,
> then I'll come over and observe. Deal?

my boyfriend is horrified at my idea and refuses to consider it. he
says it makes his stomach hurt to think about it. maybe he's just being
smart ;) so ok, i can say "deal" because it probably won't be happening...

h

[Tom Kunich]

"h squared" > wrote in message
...
>
> Stewart Fleming wrote:
>> Th wedding photographer dropped a good one on me the other
>> day....tracking the online hits of our wedding, most pictures have the
>> same rates, except for two, which are double...
>> http://www.pbase.com/alpineimages
>> Hall/Fleming wedding, password fleming
>
> and here i was being shy about modeling underwear from "stolen
> underground". now i feel silly :)
>
> nice pictures, looks like it was a fun wedding, thanks for sharing,
> heather

Once a Scot always a Scot. Too damned cheap to buy underwear.

[Tom Kunich]

"Tom Kunich" > wrote in message
link.net...
> "h squared" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Stewart Fleming wrote:
>>> Th wedding photographer dropped a good one on me the other
>>> day....tracking the online hits of our wedding, most pictures have the
>>> same rates, except for two, which are double...
>>> http://www.pbase.com/alpineimages
>>> Hall/Fleming wedding, password fleming
>>
>> and here i was being shy about modeling underwear from "stolen
>> underground". now i feel silly :)
>>
>> nice pictures, looks like it was a fun wedding, thanks for sharing,
>> heather
>
> Once a Scot always a Scot. Too damned cheap to buy underwear.

Forgot to add - congratulations Stewart. My very best wishes to you and your
wife.

[Ewoud Dronkert]

On Sun, 08 May 2005 16:09:25 GMT, Tom Kunich wrote:
> congratulations Stewart. My very best wishes to you and your wife.

To him and his sister and brother-in-law?


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[Tom Kunich]

"Ewoud Dronkert" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 08 May 2005 16:09:25 GMT, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> congratulations Stewart. My very best wishes to you and your wife.
>
> To him and his sister and brother-in-law?

Well ****, lost the thread again? That wasn't Stewart's butt being the
lesser part of valor?

[Ewoud Dronkert]

On Sun, 08 May 2005 23:42:43 GMT, Tom Kunich wrote:
> That wasn't Stewart's butt being the lesser part of valor?

I think the page title or text changed, together with it no longer being
password protected. I'm sure I read "wedding of [boy's name] Hall and
[girl's name] Fleming" before.


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