First road bike for MTB'er

[Wayne]

Hi,
I'm seriously considering buying a road bike this year. I've been riding
my MTB for a few years now and although I do occasionally ride off-road I
spend most of my time on-road. I commute on it almost daily and enjoy
weekend rides of around 30 miles (I've done upto 50 miles on it but was
pretty knackered!) so I'm thinking road bike - it's got to be less effort
right or am I?
I love the look of road bikes which I guess is good enough
reason to buy one :-) but seriously, reading some threads about road bikes
compared to MTB's suggest I may be disappointed; admittedly they talked
about putting slicks on the MTB and then said there's little difference in
efficiency but it just don't seem right! My MTB is a rockhopper with front
sus. now I don't know what it weighs but surely the weight alone would be
noticeable on a climb? Anyone out there had any experience with this?
How about the rolling resistance comparing normal nobbly MTB tyres on an
MTB to a road bike on road tyres ???
Someone also told me the fact that the wheel diameter itself reduces
resistance too, is that true?
The other thing I'm wondering about is whether I should buy one with a
double or triple chainset; On steep climbs I generally use the middle
front chain ring (I think its 36 teeth) and 4 - 5 on the rear, the granny
ring I save for off-road vertical climbs! So is there a comparable gear on
a double chain ring that would give me something similar to the above gear
selection or are we talking out of the saddle climbing if I go for a
double?

Thanks

Wayne.

[Tanya Quinn]

Hi Wayne,
My experience has been riding a MTB with knobby tires, a MTB with slick
tires, and a touring-style road bike with 700x28 tires. This is with a
rigid MTB and I'm sure you'll notice more efficiency jumps getting away
from the front suspension. I noticed a bigger efficiency gain going to
the slick tires than I did going to the road bike, but here's the
things I did notice:

1. The big ring on the MTB is not big enough esp with downhill or a
tailwind, so the road bike will offer bigger gears than your MTB
probably does.
2. Drop bars make a huge difference in a headwind.
3. Going uphill is much easier on a lighter bike.

So while I'd say my speed gain was significant in losing the knobby
tires and smaller but still noticeable going to the road bike. There is
also a significant difference in terms of comfort for long rides on the
road bike. This is from having different hand positions but also it
seems to require less effort to go the same speed. (I also got clipless
pedals on the road bike which also help!)

As for double or triple depends on what you want to do with the bike,
if you want to mostly go fast go for the lighter weight of the double.
A triple is essential for loaded touring in hilly areas. With 20 lbs of
camping gear strapped to your bike you want an easier gear tackling the
same hill!

Tanya
Wayne wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm seriously considering buying a road bike this year. I've been
riding
> my MTB for a few years now and although I do occasionally ride
off-road I
> spend most of my time on-road. I commute on it almost daily and enjoy
> weekend rides of around 30 miles (I've done upto 50 miles on it but
was
> pretty knackered!) so I'm thinking road bike - it's got to be less
effort
> right or am I?
> I love the look of road bikes which I guess is good enough
> reason to buy one :-) but seriously, reading some threads about road
bikes
> compared to MTB's suggest I may be disappointed; admittedly they
talked
> about putting slicks on the MTB and then said there's little
difference in
> efficiency but it just don't seem right! My MTB is a rockhopper with
front
> sus. now I don't know what it weighs but surely the weight alone
would be
> noticeable on a climb? Anyone out there had any experience with this?

> How about the rolling resistance comparing normal nobbly MTB tyres on
an
> MTB to a road bike on road tyres ???
> Someone also told me the fact that the wheel diameter itself reduces
> resistance too, is that true?
> The other thing I'm wondering about is whether I should buy one with
a
> double or triple chainset; On steep climbs I generally use the middle
> front chain ring (I think its 36 teeth) and 4 - 5 on the rear, the
granny
> ring I save for off-road vertical climbs! So is there a comparable
gear on
> a double chain ring that would give me something similar to the above
gear
> selection or are we talking out of the saddle climbing if I go for a
> double?
>
> Thanks
>
> Wayne.

[Joe Canuck]

Wayne wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm seriously considering buying a road bike this year. I've been riding
> my MTB for a few years now and although I do occasionally ride off-road I
> spend most of my time on-road. I commute on it almost daily and enjoy
> weekend rides of around 30 miles (I've done upto 50 miles on it but was
> pretty knackered!) so I'm thinking road bike - it's got to be less effort
> right or am I?
> I love the look of road bikes which I guess is good enough
> reason to buy one :-) but seriously, reading some threads about road bikes
> compared to MTB's suggest I may be disappointed; admittedly they talked
> about putting slicks on the MTB and then said there's little difference in
> efficiency but it just don't seem right! My MTB is a rockhopper with front
> sus. now I don't know what it weighs but surely the weight alone would be
> noticeable on a climb? Anyone out there had any experience with this?
> How about the rolling resistance comparing normal nobbly MTB tyres on an
> MTB to a road bike on road tyres ???
> Someone also told me the fact that the wheel diameter itself reduces
> resistance too, is that true?
> The other thing I'm wondering about is whether I should buy one with a
> double or triple chainset; On steep climbs I generally use the middle
> front chain ring (I think its 36 teeth) and 4 - 5 on the rear, the granny
> ring I save for off-road vertical climbs! So is there a comparable gear on
> a double chain ring that would give me something similar to the above gear
> selection or are we talking out of the saddle climbing if I go for a
> double?
>
> Thanks
>
> Wayne.


Just yesterday I switched out my Panaracer knobbies for a set of
Continental Town & Country on my mtb.

Results:

-For the same given effort the bike moves noticably faster,
un-scientific measurements suggest a difference of 5 mph.
-Directional stability is much improved.
-The high-end gear is no longer enough big enough under certain conditions.

Of course, I'd purchase a different bike today than I did 5 years ago
when I bought the mountain bike. Turns out I spend more time riding on
paved bike paths and the occasional dirt/gravel road than I do slugging
it out on true mountain bike terrain.

[RonSonic]

On Wed, 11 May 2005 19:50:55 GMT, Wayne > wrote:

>Hi,
>I'm seriously considering buying a road bike this year. I've been riding
>my MTB for a few years now and although I do occasionally ride off-road I
>spend most of my time on-road. I commute on it almost daily and enjoy
>weekend rides of around 30 miles (I've done upto 50 miles on it but was
>pretty knackered!) so I'm thinking road bike - it's got to be less effort
>right or am I?

Yes, much less effort and better ergonomics for the job.

>I love the look of road bikes which I guess is good enough
>reason to buy one :-) but seriously, reading some threads about road bikes
>compared to MTB's suggest I may be disappointed; admittedly they talked
>about putting slicks on the MTB and then said there's little difference in
>efficiency but it just don't seem right! My MTB is a rockhopper with front
>sus. now I don't know what it weighs but surely the weight alone would be
>noticeable on a climb? Anyone out there had any experience with this?
>How about the rolling resistance comparing normal nobbly MTB tyres on an
>MTB to a road bike on road tyres ???
>Someone also told me the fact that the wheel diameter itself reduces
>resistance too, is that true?
>The other thing I'm wondering about is whether I should buy one with a
>double or triple chainset; On steep climbs I generally use the middle
>front chain ring (I think its 36 teeth) and 4 - 5 on the rear, the granny
>ring I save for off-road vertical climbs! So is there a comparable gear on
>a double chain ring that would give me something similar to the above gear
>selection or are we talking out of the saddle climbing if I go for a
>double?

Typical gearing at the front of a road bike is 53 and 39, unless you've been
using the biggest cogs, you probably won't need the triple.

The lower weight, non-bobbing suspension and much better aerodynamics make the
road bike faster in ways that changing tires on the MTB won't match.

Ron





>
>Thanks
>
>Wayne.

[catzz66]

I started back riding last year after a long gap of running and then
walking. I got a used mtn bike, since that is what I rode last. I took
a chance a few months later in an old Fuji 12 speed road bike and got
interested in getting a more modern road bike. It was easy for me to
like the more current road bikes and I have gravitated to riding the
second newer road bike almost all the time.

I thought I would eventually sell the old Fuji and keep the mtn bike as
a rainy day bike, but I decided instead to keep the steel framed Fuji
and make it into a single speed, since I did't ever like the old
shifters anyway (on the head joint, if I have the terminology right).
The transition to a road bike was easy for me. I almost always ride on
pavement. The road bike is faster and lighter and the possible hand
positions are much more comfortable for me.

[Peter Cole]

Wayne wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm seriously considering buying a road bike this year. I've been riding
> my MTB for a few years now and although I do occasionally ride off-road I
> spend most of my time on-road. I commute on it almost daily and enjoy
> weekend rides of around 30 miles (I've done upto 50 miles on it but was
> pretty knackered!) so I'm thinking road bike - it's got to be less effort
> right or am I?
> I love the look of road bikes which I guess is good enough
> reason to buy one :-) but seriously, reading some threads about road bikes
> compared to MTB's suggest I may be disappointed; admittedly they talked
> about putting slicks on the MTB and then said there's little difference in
> efficiency but it just don't seem right!

There's a pretty big difference between knobby tires and slicks.

>
> My MTB is a rockhopper with front
> sus. now I don't know what it weighs but surely the weight alone would be
> noticeable on a climb? Anyone out there had any experience with this?

Not that big a deal, more psychological than anything else.


> How about the rolling resistance comparing normal nobbly MTB tyres on an
> MTB to a road bike on road tyres ???

Big difference.


> Someone also told me the fact that the wheel diameter itself reduces
> resistance too, is that true?

No.

> The other thing I'm wondering about is whether I should buy one with a
> double or triple chainset; On steep climbs I generally use the middle
> front chain ring (I think its 36 teeth) and 4 - 5 on the rear, the granny
> ring I save for off-road vertical climbs! So is there a comparable gear on
> a double chain ring that would give me something similar to the above gear
> selection or are we talking out of the saddle climbing if I go for a
> double?

I think it's better to have & not need than need & not have. That said,
I almost never use mine. I only use it during all-day rides in very
steep terrain. Still, it doesn't really affect anything to carry it
around when I'm not using it and it's very expensive to add later if you
needed it for a tour or something.

[Wayne]

On Wed, 11 May 2005 14:18:55 -0700, Tanya Quinn wrote:

> Hi Wayne,
> My experience has been riding a MTB with knobby tires, a MTB with slick
> tires, and a touring-style road bike with 700x28 tires. This is with a
> rigid MTB and I'm sure you'll notice more efficiency jumps getting away
> from the front suspension. I noticed a bigger efficiency gain going to
> the slick tires than I did going to the road bike, but here's the
> things I did notice:
>
> 1. The big ring on the MTB is not big enough esp with downhill or a
> tailwind, so the road bike will offer bigger gears than your MTB
> probably does.

Yes I notice this too

> 2. Drop bars make a huge difference in a headwind.
> 3. Going uphill is much easier on a lighter bike.

That's what I was hoping you would say; does anyone actually weigh there
bike I wonder and what's the best way. I've only got normal analogue
bathroom scales I suppose digital ones would be good enough.

> So while I'd say my speed gain was significant in losing the knobby
> tires and smaller but still noticeable going to the road bike. There is
> also a significant difference in terms of comfort for long rides on the
> road bike. This is from having different hand positions but also it
> seems to require less effort to go the same speed. (I also got clipless
> pedals on the road bike which also help!)
>
> As for double or triple depends on what you want to do with the bike, if
> you want to mostly go fast go for the lighter weight of the double. A
> triple is essential for loaded touring in hilly areas. With 20 lbs of
> camping gear strapped to your bike you want an easier gear tackling the
> same hill!

I have tried slicks or road tyres on the MTB and yes I did notice a marked
reduction in rolling resistance - I could never like the look though,
skinny tyres in that big macho frame just didn't look right :-)


Regards

Wayne.

[bryanska]

Look at the Surly Cross-Check fully built bike.

www.surlybikes.com

[Wayne]

On Wed, 11 May 2005 19:03:57 -0400, Joe Canuck wrote:

>
> Just yesterday I switched out my Panaracer knobbies for a set of
> Continental Town & Country on my mtb.
>
> Results:
>
> -For the same given effort the bike moves noticably faster,
> un-scientific measurements suggest a difference of 5 mph.
> -Directional stability is much improved.
> -The high-end gear is no longer enough big enough under certain conditions.
>
> Of course, I'd purchase a different bike today than I did 5 years ago
> when I bought the mountain bike. Turns out I spend more time riding on
> paved bike paths and the occasional dirt/gravel road than I do slugging
> it out on true mountain bike terrain.

Yes I've tried the slicks too and noticed the difference on the MTB. But
because I do use it off road now and again, the fuss of switching tyres
just puts me off going out (off road).
Much better to buy a road bike and have both I think!

Regards
Wayne.

[Wayne]

On Thu, 12 May 2005 06:16:15 -0500, catzz66 wrote:

> I started back riding last year after a long gap of running and then
> walking. I got a used mtn bike, since that is what I rode last. I took
> a chance a few months later in an old Fuji 12 speed road bike and got
> interested in getting a more modern road bike. It was easy for me to
> like the more current road bikes and I have gravitated to riding the
> second newer road bike almost all the time.
>
> I thought I would eventually sell the old Fuji and keep the mtn bike as
> a rainy day bike, but I decided instead to keep the steel framed Fuji
> and make it into a single speed, since I did't ever like the old
> shifters anyway (on the head joint, if I have the terminology right).

How do you get on with a single speed? I don't think I could manage
without my gears! A friend of mine who lives in London and commutes on a
bike regularly is converting her bike to a SS. She says the area she rides
is fairly flat and doesn't change gear much anyway.

> The transition to a road bike was easy for me. I almost always ride on
> pavement. The road bike is faster and lighter and the possible hand
> positions are much more comfortable for me.

Sounds good, thanks.

Regards
Wayne.

[Wayne]

On Wed, 11 May 2005 23:55:22 +0000, RonSonic wrote:

> On Wed, 11 May 2005 19:50:55 GMT, Wayne > wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>I'm seriously considering buying a road bike this year. I've been riding
>>my MTB for a few years now and although I do occasionally ride off-road I
>>spend most of my time on-road. I commute on it almost daily and enjoy
>>weekend rides of around 30 miles (I've done upto 50 miles on it but was
>>pretty knackered!) so I'm thinking road bike - it's got to be less effort
>>right or am I?
>
> Yes, much less effort and better ergonomics for the job.

I think I'm convinced that I need one now :-)

>>The other thing I'm wondering about is whether I should buy one with a
>>double or triple chainset; On steep climbs I generally use the middle
>>front chain ring (I think its 36 teeth) and 4 - 5 on the rear, the granny
>>ring I save for off-road vertical climbs! So is there a comparable gear on
>>a double chain ring that would give me something similar to the above gear
>>selection or are we talking out of the saddle climbing if I go for a
>>double?
>
> Typical gearing at the front of a road bike is 53 and 39, unless you've been
> using the biggest cogs, you probably won't need the triple.
>
> The lower weight, non-bobbing suspension and much better aerodynamics make the
> road bike faster in ways that changing tires on the MTB won't match.
>
> Ron

I think your right, I could probably do without a triple but like Peter
says in his post the weight is negligable bearing in mind I'm not a
serious racer so the better to have idea sort of makes sense I suppose.

Thanks,

Wayne.

[Wayne]

On Thu, 12 May 2005 07:27:15 -0400, Peter Cole wrote:

> I think it's better to have & not need than need & not have. That said,
> I almost never use mine. I only use it during all-day rides in very
> steep terrain. Still, it doesn't really affect anything to carry it
> around when I'm not using it and it's very expensive to add later if you
> needed it for a tour or something.

It's a good point and if I have it then I can't really go wrong.

Regards

Wayne.

[Peter Cole]

Wayne wrote:

>
> Yes I've tried the slicks too and noticed the difference on the MTB. But
> because I do use it off road now and again, the fuss of switching tyres
> just puts me off going out (off road).
> Much better to buy a road bike and have both I think!

Not to rain on the new bike parade but you can get an extra set of
wheels & leave them set up w/ slicks w/ a "road" cassette. Another cheap
way to set up a MTB for the road is to add clip-on aerobars. There were
a couple of guys set up that way who frequently rode with our fast road
group. The only thing you really can't dial out is the 42T max typical
big ring, which gets worse with skinny slicks.

[catzz66]

Wayne wrote:
>
>
> How do you get on with a single speed? I don't think I could manage
> without my gears! A friend of mine who lives in London and commutes on a
> bike regularly is converting her bike to a SS. She says the area she rides
> is fairly flat and doesn't change gear much anyway.
>
>

It's an experiment for me. I liked the old steel frame and the bike is
comfortable, so I am going to try and set it up with a flip/flop hub and
two possible gears. Some days I like to just go out and ride with no
goals or time constraints, just for the enjoyment of it. Where I live
is fairly flat. The Fuji has a slightly softer ride than my other bike,
but not as cushy as the mtn bike. After a week on the road bike, the
mountain bike feels like a Buick.

[wayne]

On Thu, 12 May 2005 14:13:20 -0400, Peter Cole wrote:

> Wayne wrote:
>
>>
>> Yes I've tried the slicks too and noticed the difference on the MTB. But
>> because I do use it off road now and again, the fuss of switching tyres
>> just puts me off going out (off road).
>> Much better to buy a road bike and have both I think!
>
> Not to rain on the new bike parade but you can get an extra set of
> wheels & leave them set up w/ slicks w/ a "road" cassette. Another cheap
> way to set up a MTB for the road is to add clip-on aerobars. There were
> a couple of guys set up that way who frequently rode with our fast road
> group. The only thing you really can't dial out is the 42T max typical
> big ring, which gets worse with skinny slicks.

But that means just one bike and that'll never do!!!
Seriously I did consider another set of wheels but thought unless the
wheel+cassette lined up identically, I'd have to fiddle with the indexing
of the gears - not sure if this would be the case but didn't like the
sound of it. I was also concerned about the different wear of one chain
cassette combo doing most of the mileage and then putting the less used
wheel/cassette combo on with that same chain. Again not sure how much this
would accelerate the wear of the cassette, I suppose if I replaced the
chain in good time it might be ok....
I hadn't considered aero bars though, that's an interesting idea. It's the
skinny looking slicks though, they look well a bit daft on my MTB no I
think I'll keep the MTB for what it's designed for and get a nice shiny
new bike, only trouble is now I'm trying to work out which one..

I was just reading up on the difference between integrated /
semi-integrated headsets, it looks like integrated sort of make the frame
'disposable' is this the case? Is semi-integrated the way to go?

Thanks,

Wayne.

[Peter Cole]

wayne wrote:
> Seriously I did consider another set of wheels but thought unless the
> wheel+cassette lined up identically, I'd have to fiddle with the indexing
> of the gears - not sure if this would be the case but didn't like the
> sound of it.

Shouldn't be a problem, besides MTB's have adjusters at the bars. I've
never had to adjust. The real issue is rim width and brake setting.


> I was also concerned about the different wear of one chain
> cassette combo doing most of the mileage and then putting the less used
> wheel/cassette combo on with that same chain. Again not sure how much this
> would accelerate the wear of the cassette, I suppose if I replaced the
> chain in good time it might be ok....

Not an issue.


> I was just reading up on the difference between integrated /
> semi-integrated headsets, it looks like integrated sort of make the frame
> 'disposable' is this the case? Is semi-integrated the way to go?

I don't like integrated headsets at all.

[bbaka]

Peter Cole wrote:
> Wayne wrote:
>
>>
>> Yes I've tried the slicks too and noticed the difference on the MTB. But
>> because I do use it off road now and again, the fuss of switching tyres
>> just puts me off going out (off road). Much better to buy a road bike
>> and have both I think!
>
>
> Not to rain on the new bike parade but you can get an extra set of
> wheels & leave them set up w/ slicks w/ a "road" cassette. Another cheap
> way to set up a MTB for the road is to add clip-on aerobars. There were
> a couple of guys set up that way who frequently rode with our fast road
> group. The only thing you really can't dial out is the 42T max typical
> big ring, which gets worse with skinny slicks.

Just buy a crank where you can change the chain rings. I bought my bikes
with the typical one piece cast gears and changed the cranks to ones
that I could put whatever gearing I wanted on. I have one set up with a
42/32/20 and an 11-32 in the back. The other, with street slicks has a
48/38/26 and a 14-28 on the rear. I did try a mix and match one day and
had a 58 tooth front ring pushing an 11 tooth rear but just couldn't
pedal that combo past about 25 MPH and still at a slow cadence. On the
other end I had the 20 tooth front with a 39 toothy rear and had to
pedal like crazy to keep up with people walking. I have 5 (6?) bikes and
a trunk full of parts, tires, wheels and stuff in my cars trunk. It is
fun to see how many things you can do with a bike when you are bored.
I would have loved to try the 58/11 on a serious downhill but I would
have never survived the climb with that gear set.
Bill Baka