Another hit and run

[John Hearns]

Not a cyclist,
but yet another hit and run, this time a toddler is killed:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4550387.stm

Is it only me, or do other people detect a worrying rise
in hit-and-run behaviour?
Recently a similar incident in Woolwich, where thankfully the
child was not killed. Car found dumped/burnt out later that night.

[Graeme]

John Hearns > wrote in
:

> Is it only me, or do other people detect a worrying rise
> in hit-and-run behaviour?

It may, hopefully, just be an increase in reporting as it may be seen as
more "news-worthy". News topics seem to come and go in phases and can often
distort the size of a given issue. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, as
it can sometimes result in positive action being taken to remedy problems,
but it can also result in ill-informed reactions due in part to people
assuming the news is unbiased.

Graeme

[Nick Kew]

John Hearns wrote:
> Not a cyclist,
> but yet another hit and run, this time a toddler is killed:

That's so serious they might even lock a driver up for it. If the
driver in question has enough driving bans already.

> Is it only me, or do other people detect a worrying rise
> in hit-and-run behaviour?

I suspect that may be just you. Most rises in crime are more to do
with perception and reporting than numbers of incidents. Try telling
a daily mail reader that the actual risk to children from assault by
an adult has never been lower.

--
Nick Kew

[davek]

John Hearns wrote:
> Is it only me, or do other people detect a worrying rise
> in hit-and-run behaviour?


AFAIK this rise is well-documented fact, and linked to the rise in
unlicensed/uninsured drivers.

d.

[David Martin]

On 16/5/05 9:51 am, in article , "Nick
Kew" > wrote:

> John Hearns wrote:
>> Not a cyclist,
>> but yet another hit and run, this time a toddler is killed:
>
> That's so serious they might even lock a driver up for it. If the
> driver in question has enough driving bans already.

Offences against the person act 1861 will get him up to two years.

Personally I think we should all write to our MP's asking them to make
leaving the scene of an accident a serious crime, with stiffer penalties
than drink-driving, driving without insurance/MOT etc. put together.

Also a crime of failing to render assistance at the scene of an accident if
it is not clear that the matter is already in hand. (good samaritan clause).
This could be as simple as calling an ambulance to discharge ones societal
duty.

...d

[davek]

Nick Kew wrote:
> Most rises in crime are more to do
> with perception and reporting than numbers of incidents.

True, but I think there is some Hard Fact behind it in this instance,
as per my previous answer. I'm sure I read it somewhere recently,
though I don't recall where. (Not the Daily Mail, though.)

d.

[Helen Deborah Vecht]

John Hearns >typed


> Not a cyclist,
> but yet another hit and run, this time a toddler is killed:

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4550387.stm

In my borough too (Brent). There is much appalling driving round here.

> Is it only me, or do other people detect a worrying rise
> in hit-and-run behaviour?

Possibly.
Poor beleaguered motorists say they can't afford car insurance, so drive
uninsured.

We know how much these horrors are usually punished ...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

[John Hearns]

On Mon, 16 May 2005 09:51:14 +0100, Nick Kew wrote:

>
> I suspect that may be just you. Most rises in crime are more to do
> with perception and reporting than numbers of incidents. Try telling
> a daily mail reader that the actual risk to children from assault by
> an adult has never been lower.
Point taken.
I don't read the Daily Mail,
but just try telling a Daily Mail reader that most cyclists are not
lycra louts.

[[email protected]]

Hi John,

You are quite right, 'hit and run' offences, along with many other
driving crimes have been increasing sharply for a number of years. In
many areas over half of all road crashes resulting in death or serious
injury result in the driver doing a runner. See TRL report 612,
especially the graphs on page 4.

http://www.trl.co.uk/1024/reports.asp?url=trl612.pdf

This trend is not just due to the increase in uninsured drivers, it is
becoming the social norm, as is witnessed by that case in Wales where 4
drivers- all 'upstanding citizens' - hit a pedestrian and then left him
dead in the road, one stopping only to remove the victim's clothing
from the front of his car...

[Paul - xxx]

David Martin came up with the following;:
> On 16/5/05 9:51 am, in article , "Nick
> Kew" > wrote:
>
>> John Hearns wrote:
>>> Not a cyclist,
>>> but yet another hit and run, this time a toddler is killed:
>>
>> That's so serious they might even lock a driver up for it. If the
>> driver in question has enough driving bans already.
>
> Offences against the person act 1861 will get him up to two years.
>
> Personally I think we should all write to our MP's asking them to make
> leaving the scene of an accident a serious crime, with stiffer penalties
> than drink-driving, driving without insurance/MOT etc. put together.
>
> Also a crime of failing to render assistance at the scene of an accident
> if it is not clear that the matter is already in hand. (good samaritan
> clause). This could be as simple as calling an ambulance to discharge
> ones societal duty.

I would think that many motorists would also agree with the above.

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

[dkahn400]

David Martin wrote:

> Personally I think we should all write to our MP's asking them to
> make leaving the scene of an accident a serious crime, with stiffer
> penalties than drink-driving, driving without insurance/MOT etc. put
> together.
>
> Also a crime of failing to render assistance at the scene of an
> accident if it is not clear that the matter is already in hand. (good
> samaritan clause). This could be as simple as calling an ambulance to
> discharge ones societal duty.

It is disgraceful and absurd that someone who finds himself or herself
on the wrong side of the law can expect lighter punishment if they run
and are subsequently caught than if they stay and take the consequences
like a civilised human being.

--
Dave...

[Zog The Undeniable]

wrote:

> This trend is not just due to the increase in uninsured drivers, it is
> becoming the social norm, as is witnessed by that case in Wales where 4
> drivers- all 'upstanding citizens' - hit a pedestrian and then left him
> dead in the road, one stopping only to remove the victim's clothing
> from the front of his car...
>
Two words: drink driving. It's only socially unacceptable if you get
caught.

There was the case last week of someone who crashed and ran off but
rather obviously left a car with the registration "NAS 1" at the scene
of the accident...he has been charged with attempting to pervert the
course of justice *as well as* leaving the scene. Now why do you think
that was?

[Not Responding]

wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> You are quite right, 'hit and run' offences, along with many other
> driving crimes have been increasing sharply for a number of years. In
> many areas over half of all road crashes resulting in death or serious
> injury result in the driver doing a runner. See TRL report 612,
> especially the graphs on page 4.
>
> http://www.trl.co.uk/1024/reports.asp?url=trl612.pdf

I find that document genuinely shocking. It does explain why so many
people, on hearing of my crash, asked "did the driver stop?"

[Not Responding]

>>
>> http://www.trl.co.uk
>

Pleased to note that the TRL homepage/splash image, under the headline
"creating the future of transport" is a cyclist. What's more, a
*helmetless* cyclist, to boot.

[Peter B]

"David Martin" > wrote in message
...
> Also a crime of failing to render assistance at the scene of an accident
if
> it is not clear that the matter is already in hand. (good samaritan
clause).
> This could be as simple as calling an ambulance to discharge ones societal
> duty.

My sentiments entirely. It leaves me speechless that people can be so
callous or so wrapped up in their own shock that they don't stop, like
those spineless *******s near Merthyr (from a previous post).
One thing is for sure: You can never, never, assume someone else has the
situation under control until you see the professionals turn up.

Pete

[Richard]

Zog The Undeniable wrote:

> There was the case last week of someone who crashed and ran off but
> rather obviously left a car with the registration "NAS 1" at the scene
> of the accident.

If I had a personalised registration plate showing my inflated ego, I'd
run off too before anyone could spot me...er....

R.

[[email protected]]

....And let's not forget that **** Vic Reeves ('as funny as toothache')
has just been banned after crashing his car and doing a hit and run
whilst several times over the drink-drive limit.

The bottom line is that 'The Great British Motorist' (Copyright the AA)
is all but out of control and no one has the political will to
challenge their habitual law breaking, never mind their habit of
intimidating, maiming and killing other road users. It's all a symptom
of Britain's decline into hierarchical-authoritarian or downright
fascist politics where the dominant groups in society expect to get
away with behaving however they please whilst the misdemeanours of low
status groups, such as down and outs and even 'pavement cyclists', are
met with 'zero tolerance' policing, legions of Community support
officers and all the rest...

[dkahn400]

Richard wrote:

> If I had a personalised registration plate showing my inflated
> ego, I'd run off too before anyone could spot me...er....

Quite. It would mark you out as a TW4T.

--
Dave...

[Not Responding]

wrote:
> ...And let's not forget that **** Vic Reeves ('as funny as toothache')
> has just been banned after crashing his car and doing a hit and run
> whilst several times over the drink-drive limit.
>
> The bottom line is that 'The Great British Motorist' (Copyright the AA)
> is all but out of control

agreed.

> and no one has the political will to
> challenge their habitual law breaking,

agreed

> never mind their habit of
> intimidating, maiming and killing other road users.

agreed.

> It's all a symptom
> of Britain's decline into hierarchical-authoritarian...[politics]

er, what?

[David Hansen]

On Tue, 17 May 2005 17:21:37 +0100 someone who may be Not Responding
> wrote this:-

>> It's all a symptom
>> of Britain's decline into hierarchical-authoritarian...[politics]
>
>er, what?

"the dominant groups in society expect to get away with behaving
however they please whilst the misdemeanours of low status groups,
such as down and outs and even 'pavement cyclists', are met with
'zero tolerance' policing, legions of Community support officers and
all the rest..." is a good start.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

[Pete Bentley]

Not Responding > wrote:
>Pleased to note that the TRL homepage/splash image, under the headline
>"creating the future of transport" is a cyclist. What's more, a
>*helmetless* cyclist, to boot.

Errm, I think you get one random imagine from a selection...

I'm guessing you got this one: http://www.trl.co.uk/images/6.jpg

Whilst when I follwed your link today I actually got his:-
http://www.trl.co.uk/images/7.jpg

Which rather reminds me of the old days when I used to catch the
Northern Line to work back when they were changing over to new
rolling stock and having "teething problems"...

Pete.

[John Hearns]

On Tue, 17 May 2005 00:49:04 -0700, findaddress wrote:

>
>
> The bottom line is that 'The Great British Motorist' (Copyright the AA)
> is all but out of control and no one has the political will to
> challenge their habitual law breaking, never mind their habit of
> intimidating, maiming and killing other road users.
Indeed.
I was out on a historical walk in Dulwich on Sunday.
The South Circular road was backed up due to a lane restriction.
Someone had stopped a car in the middle of a traffic-light controlled
junction, in a queue. OK, they were wrong.
Lights change, and on the cross street some idiot gets the hump and
rockets across the road, behind the tail of said stopped car.
No