Alloy wheel question [Archive]

Leo Lichtman

May 18th 05, 07:56 PM

"Ken" wrote: (clip) what other benefits are there between alloy and steel
rims?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
1.) Steel is heavier.
2.) Rim brakes on steel don't work well when wet.
3.) Steel is used only on low end bikes, so the quality is likely to be
poorer.
4.) Steel will label you as a "low end" biker to people who stop to chat,
so may lead to endless discussions about who is a bigger snob, who is being
unfriendly or overly sensitive or overreacting. <G>

I met a rider on the trails recently who was riding on steel wheels--in
spite of this, he exhibited every characteristic of a strong, accomplished
properly equipped rider. He was on an old bike in pristine condition, and
was proud of what he was riding. He was concerned that one of his wheels
was slightly bent, and he was having trouble finding a proper STEEL
replacement. He told the people in his riding group that if he followed
their urging, and changed to aluminum wheels, he would have to move up to a
faster group, so they would no longer be able to ride together. I LIKED
him, wheels and all.

Zog The Undeniable

May 18th 05, 08:00 PM

Benjamin Lewis

May 18th 05, 08:03 PM

JeffWills

May 18th 05, 08:05 PM

Ken wrote:
> I was at the local bike shop today, spending some money on some new
city
> slick skins, and I asked the one helpful guy that works there about a
new
> wheel to replace the hoppy one that is on the back of an mtb, and he
showed
> me one for like 35, and said it was alloy and would be a big step up
in
> strength. Now I have read that alloys are lighter, but stronger? Is
this
> true? what other benefits are there between alloy and steel rims?
>
> Ken

Steel rims are generally thinner and thus easier to dent. Back when
similar bikes were available with both (i.e. Schwinn Le Tour had steel
rims, Schwinn Super Le Tour had aluminum rims), I saw more dented steel
rims than aluminum. Of course, we sold more Le Tours than Super Le
Tours, too.

Rim material is almost irrelevant to wheel strength. How well the wheel
is built, tensioned, and stress-relieved has much more to do the
wheel's durability than any of the materials. At 35 (what? dollars?
marks? shillings?) the wheel is almost certainly machine-built and
trued. It will probably not be properly tensioned and won't be a
durable as the same wheel after it has been tensioned by a good human
wheelbuilder.

Jeff

Tom Keats

May 18th 05, 08:17 PM

In article >,
Peter Cole > writes:
> Ken wrote:
>> I was at the local bike shop today, spending some money on some new city
>> slick skins, and I asked the one helpful guy that works there about a new
>> wheel to replace the hoppy one that is on the back of an mtb, and he showed
>> me one for like 35, and said it was alloy and would be a big step up in
>> strength. Now I have read that alloys are lighter, but stronger? Is this
>> true? what other benefits are there between alloy and steel rims?
>>
>
> It's been a long time, but I remember steel rims as being pretty
> fragile.

Maybe the fragility you remember is that of the chrome plating?
On most of the old steel rims I've seen in recent years, the
plating was worn off in spots, with associated rust in the steel
underneath. I've also seen lots of blisters in the plating.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Peter Cole

May 18th 05, 08:44 PM

Tom Keats wrote:
> In article >,
> Peter Cole > writes:
>
>>Ken wrote:
>>
>>>I was at the local bike shop today, spending some money on some new city
>>>slick skins, and I asked the one helpful guy that works there about a new
>>>wheel to replace the hoppy one that is on the back of an mtb, and he showed
>>>me one for like 35, and said it was alloy and would be a big step up in
>>>strength. Now I have read that alloys are lighter, but stronger? Is this
>>>true? what other benefits are there between alloy and steel rims?
>>>
>>
>>It's been a long time, but I remember steel rims as being pretty
>>fragile.
>
>
> Maybe the fragility you remember is that of the chrome plating?
> On most of the old steel rims I've seen in recent years, the
> plating was worn off in spots, with associated rust in the steel
> underneath. I've also seen lots of blisters in the plating.

No, I kept denting steel rims (rear) on my bike boom (Raleigh Grand
Prix) bike until I got set up with an alloy rim, no more dents! It was a
beginning...

Sheldon Brown

May 18th 05, 09:48 PM

Ken Marcet wrote:

> I was at the local bike shop today, spending some money on some new city
> slick skins, and I asked the one helpful guy that works there about a new
> wheel to replace the hoppy one that is on the back of an mtb, and he showed
> me one for like 35, and said it was alloy and would be a big step up in
> strength. Now I have read that alloys are lighter, but stronger? Is this
> true?

Yes. "Alloy" (in the bike biz, that's usually a colloquial synonym for
"aluminum") rims are made by extrusion, while steel rims are folded out
of flat stock.

This makes "alloy" rims considerably stronger in terms of resisting
dents that might change their cross section.

Any superior material may be used to make parts either lighter or
stronger, depending on how much of it you use.

"Alloy" rims have a greater volume of metal, to make up for the fact
that steel is a stronger material.

However, aluminum only weighs about 1/3 the amount of the same volume of
steel, so aluminum rims wind up being lighter than steel.

> what other benefits are there between alloy and steel rims?

They don't rust, and the brakes work substantially better, especially
when conditions get wet.

Sheldon "Nobody Should Have To Ride On Steel Rims" Brown
+----------------------------------------------------+
| A little inaccuracy sometimes saves tons of |
| explanation. --H.H.Munro ("Saki")(1870-1916) |
+----------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Ken

May 19th 05, 12:55 PM

"Leo Lichtman" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ken" wrote: (clip) what other benefits are there between alloy and steel
> rims?
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 1.) Steel is heavier.
> 2.) Rim brakes on steel don't work well when wet.
> 3.) Steel is used only on low end bikes, so the quality is likely to be
> poorer.
> 4.) Steel will label you as a "low end" biker to people who stop to chat,
> so may lead to endless discussions about who is a bigger snob, who is
being
> unfriendly or overly sensitive or overreacting. <G>
>
> I met a rider on the trails recently who was riding on steel wheels--in
> spite of this, he exhibited every characteristic of a strong, accomplished
> properly equipped rider. He was on an old bike in pristine condition, and
> was proud of what he was riding. He was concerned that one of his wheels
> was slightly bent, and he was having trouble finding a proper STEEL
> replacement. He told the people in his riding group that if he followed
> their urging, and changed to aluminum wheels, he would have to move up to
a
> faster group, so they would no longer be able to ride together. I LIKED
> him, wheels and all.
>
>
Interesting, I know I am not the most seasoned ride, and my bike is not the
newest or the shiniest. But I don't really care. I don't ride to impress
others. But on the other hand if alloy is *stronger* I would consider this
to be the biggest selling point for me. I don't really care too much about
weight, and braking performance is not an issue either. About being a *low
end* biker. maybe it would keep the thieves from ripping the bike off.

Ken

RonSonic

May 19th 05, 02:02 PM

On Thu, 19 May 2005 07:55:21 -0400, "Ken" >
wrote:

>
>"Leo Lichtman" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "Ken" wrote: (clip) what other benefits are there between alloy and steel
>> rims?
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> 1.) Steel is heavier.
>> 2.) Rim brakes on steel don't work well when wet.
>> 3.) Steel is used only on low end bikes, so the quality is likely to be
>> poorer.
>> 4.) Steel will label you as a "low end" biker to people who stop to chat,
>> so may lead to endless discussions about who is a bigger snob, who is
>being
>> unfriendly or overly sensitive or overreacting. <G>
>>
>> I met a rider on the trails recently who was riding on steel wheels--in
>> spite of this, he exhibited every characteristic of a strong, accomplished
>> properly equipped rider. He was on an old bike in pristine condition, and
>> was proud of what he was riding. He was concerned that one of his wheels
>> was slightly bent, and he was having trouble finding a proper STEEL
>> replacement. He told the people in his riding group that if he followed
>> their urging, and changed to aluminum wheels, he would have to move up to
>a
>> faster group, so they would no longer be able to ride together. I LIKED
>> him, wheels and all.
>>
>>
>Interesting, I know I am not the most seasoned ride, and my bike is not the
>newest or the shiniest. But I don't really care. I don't ride to impress
>others. But on the other hand if alloy is *stronger* I would consider this
>to be the biggest selling point for me. I don't really care too much about
>weight, and braking performance is not an issue either. About being a *low
>end* biker. maybe it would keep the thieves from ripping the bike off.

I don't know if an alloy rim will be stronger than the steel thing you've got. I
do know that it will be plenty strong and otherwise better in every way. I also
know that you'll have far more trouble finding a suitable steel rim. Go ahead
with the aluminum and then replace the other to match when you find out how much
better they are.

Ron

Peter Cole

May 19th 05, 02:06 PM

Leo Lichtman wrote:

> I met a rider on the trails recently who was riding on steel wheels--in
> spite of this, he exhibited every characteristic of a strong, accomplished
> properly equipped rider. He was on an old bike in pristine condition, and
> was proud of what he was riding. He was concerned that one of his wheels
> was slightly bent, and he was having trouble finding a proper STEEL
> replacement. He told the people in his riding group that if he followed
> their urging, and changed to aluminum wheels, he would have to move up to a
> faster group, so they would no longer be able to ride together. I LIKED
> him, wheels and all.

He may have been a nice guy, but he doesn't seem to know anything about
bikes.

Ken

May 19th 05, 02:25 PM

"RonSonic" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 19 May 2005 07:55:21 -0400, "Ken"
>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Leo Lichtman" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >> "Ken" wrote: (clip) what other benefits are there between alloy and
steel
> >> rims?
> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> 1.) Steel is heavier.
> >> 2.) Rim brakes on steel don't work well when wet.
> >> 3.) Steel is used only on low end bikes, so the quality is likely to
be
> >> poorer.
> >> 4.) Steel will label you as a "low end" biker to people who stop to
chat,
> >> so may lead to endless discussions about who is a bigger snob, who is
> >being
> >> unfriendly or overly sensitive or overreacting. <G>
> >>
> >> I met a rider on the trails recently who was riding on steel wheels--in
> >> spite of this, he exhibited every characteristic of a strong,
accomplished
> >> properly equipped rider. He was on an old bike in pristine condition,
and
> >> was proud of what he was riding. He was concerned that one of his
wheels
> >> was slightly bent, and he was having trouble finding a proper STEEL
> >> replacement. He told the people in his riding group that if he
followed
> >> their urging, and changed to aluminum wheels, he would have to move up
to
> >a
> >> faster group, so they would no longer be able to ride together. I
LIKED
> >> him, wheels and all.
> >>
> >>
> >Interesting, I know I am not the most seasoned ride, and my bike is not
the
> >newest or the shiniest. But I don't really care. I don't ride to impress
> >others. But on the other hand if alloy is *stronger* I would consider
this
> >to be the biggest selling point for me. I don't really care too much
about
> >weight, and braking performance is not an issue either. About being a
*low
> >end* biker. maybe it would keep the thieves from ripping the bike off.
>
> I don't know if an alloy rim will be stronger than the steel thing you've
got. I
> do know that it will be plenty strong and otherwise better in every way. I
also
> know that you'll have far more trouble finding a suitable steel rim. Go
ahead
> with the aluminum and then replace the other to match when you find out
how much
> better they are.
>
> Ron
>

Well you seem to give pretty good advise whenever I have a question. So I
took your advise. But I ordered stuff from bikepartsusa.com. Here is what I
ordered.
http://www.bikepartsusa.com/product_info.phtml?p=01-141516
http://www.bikepartsusa.com/product_info.phtml?p=01-137875

Okay I am not supporting the lbs by buying online, but I gave them money
yesterday! And bikepartsusa works out to around the same price as the lbs
and I get to keep the tool!

Ken

Jeff Starr

May 19th 05, 04:35 PM

On Thu, 19 May 2005 07:55:21 -0400, "Ken"
> wrote:

>

>
>, and braking performance is not an issue either. About being a *low
>end* biker. maybe it would keep the thieves from ripping the bike off.
>
>Ken

Braking performance should be a concern. Steel wheels are terrible for
stopping, when they are wet.

Often, people will steal anything that isn't locked up. With a beater,
they won't bother to defeat the locks. With a nice bike, if they are
prepared, then all bets are off.

Life is Good!
Jeff

Alex Rodriguez

May 19th 05, 07:15 PM

In article >,
says...
>
>
>I was at the local bike shop today, spending some money on some new city
>slick skins, and I asked the one helpful guy that works there about a new
>wheel to replace the hoppy one that is on the back of an mtb, and he showed
>me one for like 35, and said it was alloy and would be a big step up in
>strength. Now I have read that alloys are lighter, but stronger? Is this
>true? what other benefits are there between alloy and steel rims?

A well built aluminum rimmed wheel can be stronger than a poorly built
steel rimmed wheel.
-----------
Alex

Chalo

May 20th 05, 01:05 AM

Ken wrote:
>
> Here is what I ordered.
> http://www.bikepartsusa.com/product_info.phtml?p=01-141516
> http://www.bikepartsusa.com/product_info.phtml?p=01-137875

It would be a good idea for you to have the LBS go over your new
wheels, or at the very least, do as described here:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#seating

The wheels you bought are machine-built. They are exceptionally good
value for the money, if you take the time to "condition" them a bit
before you put many miles on them. Many machine-built wheels have
chronic spoke breakage problems, though, if their spokes are not
adequately seated and stress-relieved.

Chalo Colina

Jasper Janssen

May 23rd 05, 01:43 PM

On Wed, 18 May 2005 16:48:09 -0400, Sheldon Brown
> wrote:

>Sheldon "Nobody Should Have To Ride On Steel Rims" Brown

Good chromed steel rims work well enough when you ain't got no brakes on
there.

Jasper

Ken

May 23rd 05, 04:31 PM

"Jasper Janssen" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 18 May 2005 16:48:09 -0400, Sheldon Brown
> > wrote:
>
>>Sheldon "Nobody Should Have To Ride On Steel Rims" Brown
>
> Good chromed steel rims work well enough when you ain't got no brakes on
> there.
>
> Jasper

I don't know about braking, but it seems every time I get to look at a bike
with steels the rims are bent!

Ken

Sheldon Brown

May 23rd 05, 04:31 PM

I nicked:

"Nobody Should Have To Ride On Steel Rims"
>
Jasper Janssen wrote:
>
> Good chromed steel rims work well enough when you ain't got no brakes on
> there.

Yes, but _good_ chromed steel rims, like _good_ cottered cranks, have
not been made for nigh on to forty years!

Back in the day, there was considerable skepticism about the reliability
of alumin(i)um parts, especially in Britain, where steel had (has?) a
particular mystique dating from its central place in the Industrial
Revolution...viz, "Raleigh, the All Steel Bicycle."

However, by the late '60s, even the Brits acknowledged that steel was
not optimal for rims nor cranks, and thenceforward, steel was only used
as a cost-saving material for making cheap parts. The standard of
quality of the available steel parts went down accordingly.

Steel rims were made subsequently, but none with quality even remotely
up to the standard previously set by Dunlop.

Steel cottered cranks were made subsequently, but nothing like
Magistroni, or Chater Lea, or even Williams.

The same is true of brake calipers, handlebars, stems, seatpost, hub
shells...

Sheldon "Steel's Not Ideal" Brown
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must |
| want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. |
| To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting |
| themselves made President should on no account be |
| allowed to do the job. |
| To summarize the summary of the summary: |
| people are a problem. -- Douglas Adams |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Bruce Jackson

May 24th 05, 09:22 PM

Sheldon Brown wrote:
> Yes. "Alloy" (in the bike biz, that's usually a colloquial synonym for
> "aluminum") rims are made by extrusion, while steel rims are folded out
> of flat stock.

This is a peeve of mine too. Steel is an alloy so assuming there are
no iron parts on a bicycle everything on bikes is alloy. I notice
in old bike magazines aluminum parts were called "dural" which I assume
is short for duralumin.

> Sheldon "Nobody Should Have To Ride On Steel Rims" Brown

I choose to ride a steel front wheel for a while. You see one of my
daily commutes was hilly with stop signs at the bottom of each hill.
My aluminum rims were wearing out at an alarming rate so I
unsucessfully
looked for a cheap hub brake. When I came across a steel wheel with a
good rim but destroyed hub it occured that the steel rim should hold up
to braking a lot longer than aluminum so I built the rim into a front
wheel for my commute. No rim wear and I never had trouble stopping
it even in the rain. No doubt my Dura Ace EX brakes were a lot
better than the cheap stamped steel calipers on most steel wheeled 10
speeds.

In general I agree that people shouldn't have to ride steel rims.
btw, my daughter's bike has steel rims and I'd love to upgrade them
to aluminum. Anyone got a source for aluminum 12 1/2" rims?

David L. Johnson

May 25th 05, 12:44 AM

On Tue, 24 May 2005 13:22:23 -0700, Bruce Jackson wrote:

> My aluminum rims were wearing out at an alarming rate so I
> unsucessfully
> looked for a cheap hub brake. When I came across a steel wheel with a
> good rim but destroyed hub it occured that the steel rim should hold up
> to braking a lot longer than aluminum so I built the rim into a front
> wheel for my commute. No rim wear and I never had trouble stopping
> it even in the rain. No doubt my Dura Ace EX brakes were a lot
> better than the cheap stamped steel calipers on most steel wheeled 10
> speeds.

I had good brakes (Universal center-pulls) with steel rims at one point in
my life. The braking sucked, especially in the rain. I really don't
recommend using steel rims.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Deserves death! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve
_`\(,_ | death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to
(_)/ (_) | them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.
-- J. R. R. Tolkein

jim beam

May 25th 05, 03:35 AM

Sheldon Brown wrote:
> I nicked:
>
> "Nobody Should Have To Ride On Steel Rims"
>
>>
> Jasper Janssen wrote:
>
>>
>> Good chromed steel rims work well enough when you ain't got no brakes on
>> there.
>
>
> Yes, but _good_ chromed steel rims, like _good_ cottered cranks, have
> not been made for nigh on to forty years!
>
> Back in the day, there was considerable skepticism about the reliability
> of alumin(i)um parts, especially in Britain, where steel had (has?) a
> particular mystique dating from its central place in the Industrial
> Revolution...viz, "Raleigh, the All Steel Bicycle."

astute observation. i'd say "has".

>
> However, by the late '60s, even the Brits acknowledged that steel was
> not optimal for rims nor cranks, and thenceforward, steel was only used
> as a cost-saving material for making cheap parts. The standard of
> quality of the available steel parts went down accordingly.
>
> Steel rims were made subsequently, but none with quality even remotely
> up to the standard previously set by Dunlop.
>
> Steel cottered cranks were made subsequently, but nothing like
> Magistroni, or Chater Lea, or even Williams.
>
> The same is true of brake calipers, handlebars, stems, seatpost, hub
> shells...
>
> Sheldon "Steel's Not Ideal" Brown
> +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
> | To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must |
> | want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. |
> | To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting |
> | themselves made President should on no account be |
> | allowed to do the job. |
> | To summarize the summary of the summary: |
> | people are a problem. -- Douglas Adams |
> +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
> Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
> Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
> http://harriscyclery.com
> Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
> http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
>

Sheldon Brown

May 25th 05, 05:40 PM

I wrote:

>>Yes. "Alloy" (in the bike biz, that's usually a colloquial synonym for
>>"aluminum") rims are made by extrusion, while steel rims are folded out
>>of flat stock.
>
Bruce Jackson wrote:
>
> This is a peeve of mine too.

Speak for yourself, Bruce. As a soi-disant "cyclexicographer" I have my
share of linguistic peeves, but this is not among them. I have no
problem with people using "alloy" in this well-established colloquial way.

There are many far more egregious neologisms out there.

There can indeed be great pleasure had from linguistic curmudgeing.

I recall the master, Dick Swann, used to fill the pages of _Bicycling!_
with vituperative vitriol anent the distinction between "axles" and
"spindles", between "clinchers" and "wire-ons." Then there are the
beyond-the-pale subhumans who call a saddle a "seat"... ;-)

The ones that peeve me are "brake arch" "crank arm" and the use of the
singular "cog" to refer to a sprocket cluster.

Sheldon "Do Chains 'Stretch'?" Brown
+---------------------------------------------------+
| "O, don't the days seem lank and long |
| When all goes right and nothing goes wrong, |
| And isn't your life extremely flat |
| With nothing whatever to grumble at!" |
| --W.S. Gilbert |
+---------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Chalo

May 25th 05, 08:57 PM

Sheldon Brown wrote:
>
> The ones that peeve me are "brake arch"

This is annoying, when used to mean "caliper". But only because there
is such a thing as a brake arch (booster).

> "crank arm"

Now I don't get your annoyance about this. Since "crank" refers to the
whole assembly, like in any machine that has a crank, what else are you
supposed to call a crankarm? The word "arm" used alone is too generic
and apt to cause confusion. "Crankarm" makes no less sense than
"swingarm" or "rocker arm" or "lever arm". There is no specific
alternative to it.

I know use use terms like "left crank", but to me this comes across
like using the term "inner wheel" to mean hub, or "outer wheel" to mean
tire. You don't call a crank spindle a "middle crank", do you?

>and the use of the singular "cog" to refer to a sprocket cluster.

I have no particular feeling about it, but it is clear that the
vernacular "cog" has come to mean "small sprocket or gear" rather than
just a single tooth. I have never heard the term used to mean the
whole cluster.

Chalo Colina

Dave Lehnen

May 25th 05, 09:54 PM

Sheldon Brown wrote:
<snip>
> There are many far more egregious neologisms out there.
>
> There can indeed be great pleasure had from linguistic curmudgeing.
>
<snip>

At least bicyclists don't use "foot pedal", yet.

Dave Lehnen

Sheldon Brown

May 25th 05, 09:56 PM

I whined:

>>The ones that peeve me are "brake arch"
>
Chalo wrote:
>
> This is annoying, when used to mean "caliper". But only because there
> is such a thing as a brake arch (booster).
>
Well, yes, but that's not all. I have a theory that many technical
terms have their origin in the function of the device, but that when new
inventions get named in foreign languages they often get named based on
what they look like rather than how they work.

For instance, the French word for "countersink bit" is "fraise", i.e.
"strawberry." By extension this leads to the French word for "milling
machine" being "fraiseuse."

Another example is "carburetor" (carburettor east of the Atlantic.) I
seem to recall that the Spanish word for "carburetor" is something like
'little house." (Not sure about that, my technical Spanish is pretty
minimal aside from photographic terms.)

Anyhoo, I believe that this approach to naming technical devices is part
of what keeps the Third World the Third World.

A caliper is a moveable tool commonly used for measuring. A brake
caliper has a functional resemblence to a measuring caliper.

An arch, on the other hand, is a rigid, non-moving structure. I believe
this usage arose from a poor translation from the Japanese.

I don't object to the use of "arch" to describe the main body of a
centerpull caliper, nor to describe a brake booster, nor even to
describe the structure that links the two sliders of a telescopic
suspension fork.
>
>>"crank arm"
>
> Now I don't get your annoyance about this. Since "crank" refers to the
> whole assembly,

Ah, I don't agree with you there. The whole assembly is a "crankset"
("chainset" in Blighty) and consists of a left crank, right crank, and
bottom bracket.

> like in any machine that has a crank, what else are you
> supposed to call a crankarm? The word "arm" used alone is too generic
> and apt to cause confusion.

That's true in most, but not all contexts.

> "Crankarm" makes no less sense than
> "swingarm" or "rocker arm" or "lever arm". There is no specific
> alternative to it.

I myself consider it uselessly and unnecessarily redundundundant in my
own personal opinion.

I hate, abhor and detest useless redundancies that serve no useful
purpose or function whatsoever.
>
> I know use use terms like "left crank", but to me this comes across
> like using the term "inner wheel" to mean hub, or "outer wheel" to mean
> tire. You don't call a crank spindle a "middle crank", do you?

I don't consider the spindle (or is it an axle?) part of the crank.
>
>>and the use of the singular "cog" to refer to a sprocket cluster.
>
> I have no particular feeling about it, but it is clear that the
> vernacular "cog" has come to mean "small sprocket or gear" rather than
> just a single tooth.

I believe this is a truncation of "cogwheel." Some folks on this list
find it objectionable to refer to a sprocket as a "cog" but I'm not one
of them.

> I have never heard the term used to mean the whole cluster.

Would I were so fortunate!

Sheldon "The Bomb Was Still Ticking, But It Hadn't Gone Off Yet" Brown
+-----------------------------------+
| Habit is the nursery of errors. |
| --Victor Hugo |
+-----------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

[email protected]

May 25th 05, 10:25 PM

Dave Lehnen wrote:
> Sheldon Brown wrote:
> <snip>
> > There are many far more egregious neologisms out there.
> >
> > There can indeed be great pleasure had from linguistic curmudgeing.
> >
> <snip>
>
>
> At least bicyclists don't use "foot pedal", yet.
>
> Dave Lehnen

Amen. And we don't pre-mount them either.

dkl

Robin Hubert

May 26th 05, 03:12 AM

Chalo wrote:
> Sheldon Brown wrote:
>
>>The ones that peeve me are "brake arch"
>
>
> This is annoying, when used to mean "caliper". But only because there
> is such a thing as a brake arch (booster).
>
>
>>"crank arm"
>
>
> Now I don't get your annoyance about this. Since "crank" refers to the
> whole assembly, like in any machine that has a crank, what else are you
> supposed to call a crankarm? The word "arm" used alone is too generic
> and apt to cause confusion. "Crankarm" makes no less sense than
> "swingarm" or "rocker arm" or "lever arm". There is no specific
> alternative to it.
>
> I know use use terms like "left crank", but to me this comes across
> like using the term "inner wheel" to mean hub, or "outer wheel" to mean
> tire. You don't call a crank spindle a "middle crank", do you?
>
>
>>and the use of the singular "cog" to refer to a sprocket cluster.
>
>
> I have no particular feeling about it, but it is clear that the
> vernacular "cog" has come to mean "small sprocket or gear" rather than
> just a single tooth. I have never heard the term used to mean the
> whole cluster.
>

I get the "cog" thing, meaning gear cluster, all the time in Oak Park, IL.

Robin Hubert

Robin Hubert

May 26th 05, 03:17 AM

Sheldon Brown wrote:
> I whined:
>
>>> The ones that peeve me are "brake arch"
>>
>>
> Chalo wrote:
>
>>
>> This is annoying, when used to mean "caliper". But only because there
>> is such a thing as a brake arch (booster).
>>
> Well, yes, but that's not all. I have a theory that many technical
> terms have their origin in the function of the device, but that when new
> inventions get named in foreign languages they often get named based on
> what they look like rather than how they work.
>
> For instance, the French word for "countersink bit" is "fraise", i.e.
> "strawberry." By extension this leads to the French word for "milling
> machine" being "fraiseuse."
>
> Another example is "carburetor" (carburettor east of the Atlantic.) I
> seem to recall that the Spanish word for "carburetor" is something like
> 'little house." (Not sure about that, my technical Spanish is pretty
> minimal aside from photographic terms.)
>
> Anyhoo, I believe that this approach to naming technical devices is part
> of what keeps the Third World the Third World.
>
> A caliper is a moveable tool commonly used for measuring. A brake
> caliper has a functional resemblence to a measuring caliper.
>
> An arch, on the other hand, is a rigid, non-moving structure. I believe
> this usage arose from a poor translation from the Japanese.
>
> I don't object to the use of "arch" to describe the main body of a
> centerpull caliper, nor to describe a brake booster, nor even to
> describe the structure that links the two sliders of a telescopic
> suspension fork.
>
>>
>>> "crank arm"
>>
>>
>> Now I don't get your annoyance about this. Since "crank" refers to the
>> whole assembly,
>
>
> Ah, I don't agree with you there. The whole assembly is a "crankset"
> ("chainset" in Blighty) and consists of a left crank, right crank, and
> bottom bracket.
>
>> like in any machine that has a crank, what else are you
>> supposed to call a crankarm? The word "arm" used alone is too generic
>> and apt to cause confusion.
>
>
> That's true in most, but not all contexts.
>
>> "Crankarm" makes no less sense than
>> "swingarm" or "rocker arm" or "lever arm". There is no specific
>> alternative to it.
>
>
> I myself consider it uselessly and unnecessarily redundundundant in my
> own personal opinion

Sheldon,
That's the funniest **** I've read on RBT in ages!

> I hate, abhor and detest useless redundancies that serve no useful
> purpose or function whatsoever.
>
>>
>> I know use use terms like "left crank", but to me this comes across
>> like using the term "inner wheel" to mean hub, or "outer wheel" to mean
>> tire. You don't call a crank spindle a "middle crank", do you?
>
>
> I don't consider the spindle (or is it an axle?) part of the crank.
>
>>
>>> and the use of the singular "cog" to refer to a sprocket cluster.
>>
>>
>> I have no particular feeling about it, but it is clear that the
>> vernacular "cog" has come to mean "small sprocket or gear" rather than
>> just a single tooth.
>
>
> I believe this is a truncation of "cogwheel." Some folks on this list
> find it objectionable to refer to a sprocket as a "cog" but I'm not one
> of them.
>
>> I have never heard the term used to mean the whole cluster.
>
>
> Would I were so fortunate!

Cute.

>
> Sheldon "The Bomb Was Still Ticking, But It Hadn't Gone Off Yet" Brown
> +-----------------------------------+
> | Habit is the nursery of errors. |
> | --Victor Hugo |
> +-----------------------------------+
> Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
> Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
> http://harriscyclery.com
> Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
> http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
>

Robin Hubert

Michael Press

May 26th 05, 08:06 PM

In article
.net>,
Robin Hubert > wrote:

> Chalo wrote:
> > Sheldon Brown wrote:
> >
> >>The ones that peeve me are "brake arch"
> >
> >
> > This is annoying, when used to mean "caliper". But only because there
> > is such a thing as a brake arch (booster).
> >
> >
> >>"crank arm"
> >
> >
> > Now I don't get your annoyance about this. Since "crank" refers to the
> > whole assembly, like in any machine that has a crank, what else are you
> > supposed to call a crankarm? The word "arm" used alone is too generic
> > and apt to cause confusion. "Crankarm" makes no less sense than
> > "swingarm" or "rocker arm" or "lever arm". There is no specific
> > alternative to it.
> >
> > I know use use terms like "left crank", but to me this comes across
> > like using the term "inner wheel" to mean hub, or "outer wheel" to mean
> > tire. You don't call a crank spindle a "middle crank", do you?
> >
> >
> >>and the use of the singular "cog" to refer to a sprocket cluster.
> >
> >
> > I have no particular feeling about it, but it is clear that the
> > vernacular "cog" has come to mean "small sprocket or gear" rather than
> > just a single tooth. I have never heard the term used to mean the
> > whole cluster.
> >
>
> I get the "cog" thing, meaning gear cluster, all the time in Oak Park, IL.

Hello.

Cog, n. [Cf. Sw. kugge a tooth or a cog, or W. cocos the cogs of a
wheel.]
1. (Mech.) A tooth, cam, or catch for imparting or receiving
motion, as on a gear wheel, or a lifter or wiper on a shaft;
originally, a separate piece of wood set in a mortise in the face
of a wheel.

Crank, n. [ME, yarn reel; AS _cranc_ in _crancstaef_, yarn comb
(also in _crencestre_, woman weaver), but basic sense "something
twisted, something used to twist"(cf G _krank_, ill, lit., twisted
by illness); IE base *ger-, to twist, turn]
1. (Mach.) A bent portion of an axle, or shaft, or an arm keyed at
right angles to the end of a shaft, by which motion is imparted to
or received from it; also used to change circular into
reciprocating motion, or reciprocating into circular motion.

--
Michael Press