how often to ride? & what goals? [Archive]

1oki

May 20th 05, 02:51 AM

Assuming their are no outside distractions; no work, no family
responsibilities, no life's little chores, no bad weather; how often would
you ride?

I'd like to say 'everyday' but the body isn't as young as the mind thinks
it is. And it is said one should include rest days so you don't get worn
down.

I'm thinking I'll aim for 3 - 4 days a week [not counting utility rides]
with 2 hours being the minimum.

It doesn't matter whether they seem impressive or insignificant to another.
To each, his or her own. But I like to set goals or certain loops.

Goals:

60/60/60

I'd like to do a 60 minute swim in the morning a 60 km bike ride in the
afternoon and another 60 minute swim. I did a 50/50/50 last year. It pretty
much knackers me for the day. Time to up it a notch.

A new loop: ~100 km plus

I haven't decided which loop though. I'm thinking somewhere to the north.
Their are some railtrails about 30 km north of town. There and back and a
length of trail should get me over 100 km.

Anyone else have season goals?

--
'I used ta do a little but a little wouldn't do
So the little got more and more
I just keep tryin' ta get a little better
Said a little better than before' -g&r

Zoot Katz

May 20th 05, 05:30 AM

Thu, 19 May 2005 21:51:17 -0400, >,
"1oki" > wrote:

>Anyone else have season goals?

Everyday wherever I'm able as soon as physically possible.
--
zk

Dominic Sansom

May 20th 05, 09:21 AM

Cycle: 20-40km weekdays, 50-100km Saturday and Sunday.

Goal: drop 20kg by Christmas '05

--
Dominic Sansom

Michael Warner

May 20th 05, 12:35 PM

On Thu, 19 May 2005 21:51:17 -0400, 1oki wrote:

> Assuming their are no outside distractions; no work, no family
> responsibilities, no life's little chores, no bad weather; how often would
> you ride?

6 days a week, alternating tough rides (hills or fast groups) with
recovery rides.

--
bpo gallery at http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/mvw1/bpo

Colorado Bicycler

May 20th 05, 12:57 PM

1. To enjoy each ride, no matter how long or how short, how intense or
how relaxed.

2. To have variety in my rides so that some are tough and some are
relaxing and easy.

3. To never forget just why I ride and what my personal (not anyone
elses's) goals are for my bicycling.

4. To not judge my success in riding by miles or kilometers or average
speed or top speed, but instead on how many people I have met, how many
beautiful birds and flowers I have seen, how much new exploring I have
done, and do I have the "It has been a great ride" feeling at the end
of the ride.

And I would also walk and do other worthwhile exercise activities such
as my weight lifting and my singing.

And I would do this bicycling as often as I would feel like it,
sometimes several times per day, sometimes once per week, listening
carefully to my body for direction as to when to or when to not ride.

And to be true to myself.

And what I do would be complete "HERESY" to many of you.

Have a great day.

RonSonic

May 20th 05, 02:24 PM

On Thu, 19 May 2005 21:51:17 -0400, "1oki" > wrote:

>
>
> Assuming their are no outside distractions; no work, no family
>responsibilities, no life's little chores, no bad weather; how often would
>you ride?

Pretty much daily. Some hard, some long some short, some easy. Most of them in
the woods. I don't like riding on the road much anymore and the trails are far
more interesting.

> I'd like to say 'everyday' but the body isn't as young as the mind thinks
>it is. And it is said one should include rest days so you don't get worn
>down.
>
> I'm thinking I'll aim for 3 - 4 days a week [not counting utility rides]
>with 2 hours being the minimum.

I'd rather ride 5-6 days with 1 hour minimum.

> It doesn't matter whether they seem impressive or insignificant to another.
>To each, his or her own. But I like to set goals or certain loops.
>
> Goals:
>
> 60/60/60
>
> I'd like to do a 60 minute swim in the morning a 60 km bike ride in the
>afternoon and another 60 minute swim. I did a 50/50/50 last year. It pretty
>much knackers me for the day. Time to up it a notch.
>
> A new loop: ~100 km plus
>
> I haven't decided which loop though. I'm thinking somewhere to the north.
>Their are some railtrails about 30 km north of town. There and back and a
>length of trail should get me over 100 km.
>
>Anyone else have season goals?

Yeah, stay healthy and unbattered. Get my MTB chops up to the point I can ride
all the trails at Boyette without fear and Alafia without terror. Be ready and
fit for the 05 cyclocross season.

Ron

Maggie

May 20th 05, 02:36 PM

Colorado Bicycler wrote:
> 1. To enjoy each ride, no matter how long or how short, how intense
or
> how relaxed.
>
> 2. To have variety in my rides so that some are tough and some are
> relaxing and easy.
>
> 3. To never forget just why I ride and what my personal (not anyone
> elses's) goals are for my bicycling.
>
> 4. To not judge my success in riding by miles or kilometers or
average
> speed or top speed, but instead on how many people I have met, how
many
> beautiful birds and flowers I have seen, how much new exploring I
have
> done, and do I have the "It has been a great ride" feeling at the end
> of the ride.
>
> And I would also walk and do other worthwhile exercise activities
such
> as my weight lifting and my singing.
>
> And I would do this bicycling as often as I would feel like it,
> sometimes several times per day, sometimes once per week, listening
> carefully to my body for direction as to when to or when to not ride.
>
> And to be true to myself.
>
> And what I do would be complete "HERESY" to many of you.
>
> Have a great day.

I am printing this out and putting in near my bicycle and in my office.
It is a beautiful goal. Beautifully thought out, beautifully written
and it is a reminder of that very famous line from Hamlet.....

To thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day,
thou canst not then be false to any man.

Shakespeare, Hamlet, Act I, Scene 3

Thank you for sharing that goal. It truly is beautiful.

Most Sincerely,
Maggie

Roy Owen

May 20th 05, 02:43 PM

1oki wrote:
> Assuming their are no outside distractions; no work, no family
> responsibilities, no life's little chores, no bad weather; how often would
> you ride?
>
> I'd like to say 'everyday' but the body isn't as young as the mind thinks
> it is. And it is said one should include rest days so you don't get worn
> down.
>
> I'm thinking I'll aim for 3 - 4 days a week [not counting utility rides]
> with 2 hours being the minimum.
>
> It doesn't matter whether they seem impressive or insignificant to another.
> To each, his or her own. But I like to set goals or certain loops.
>
> Goals:
>
> 60/60/60
>
> I'd like to do a 60 minute swim in the morning a 60 km bike ride in the
> afternoon and another 60 minute swim. I did a 50/50/50 last year. It pretty
> much knackers me for the day. Time to up it a notch.
>
> A new loop: ~100 km plus
>
> I haven't decided which loop though. I'm thinking somewhere to the north.
> Their are some railtrails about 30 km north of town. There and back and a
> length of trail should get me over 100 km.
>
> Anyone else have season goals?
>
> --
> 'I used ta do a little but a little wouldn't do
> So the little got more and more
> I just keep tryin' ta get a little better
> Said a little better than before' -g&r
>
>
My goal current goal is get up to 20 mi per day 6 days a week,
alternating days with hard and recovery rides, hard ride being 20 mi in
1:00:00 to 1:15:00 and a recovery ride 20 mi in > 1:30:00. Once I reach
that I'll stretch the recovery rides out to 30 or 40 mi to increase
endurance. Ultimate goal is to do a century in September or October.

--
Roy Owen

Keep the leather side up,
and the rubber side down.

Michael Warner

May 20th 05, 03:16 PM

On 20 May 2005 04:57:28 -0700, Colorado Bicycler wrote:

> And what I do would be complete "HERESY" to many of you.

You forgot "Try to be less of a paranoid inverted snob" :-)

--
bpo gallery at http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/mvw1/bpo

Bill Sornson

May 20th 05, 03:59 PM

Colorado Bicycler wrote:
> 1. To enjoy each ride, no matter how long or how short, how intense
> or how relaxed.
>
> 2. To have variety in my rides so that some are tough and some are
> relaxing and easy.
>
> 3. To never forget just why I ride and what my personal (not anyone
> elses's) goals are for my bicycling.
>
> 4. To not judge my success in riding by miles or kilometers or
> average speed or top speed, but instead on how many people I have
> met, how many beautiful birds and flowers I have seen, how much new
> exploring I have done, and do I have the "It has been a great ride"
> feeling at the end of the ride.
>
> And I would also walk and do other worthwhile exercise activities such
> as my weight lifting and my singing.
>
> And I would do this bicycling as often as I would feel like it,
> sometimes several times per day, sometimes once per week, listening
> carefully to my body for direction as to when to or when to not ride.

Just how far CAN Fabrizio stick his finger down his throat?!?

:-D

Peter Cole

May 20th 05, 04:04 PM

Colorado Bicycler wrote:
>
> And to be true to myself.
>
> And what I do would be complete "HERESY" to many of you.

Oh, get over yourself.

Arthur Harris

May 20th 05, 04:08 PM

"1oki" wrote:
> Assuming their are no outside distractions; no work, no family
> responsibilities, no life's little chores, no bad weather; how often would
> you ride?

There's more to life than bicycling. Those "outside distractions" are what
life is all about. Don't let bicycling become another chore that you force
yourself to do even when you don't feel like it.

> I'd like to say 'everyday' but the body isn't as young as the mind thinks
> it is. And it is said one should include rest days so you don't get worn
> down.

My experience is that up to a point, the more I ride, the more I want to
ride. But when I start making specific goals (mileage, speed, number of
rides per week, etc.), then it gets to be more like a chore.

If you're competing, you need a strict training regimen. But if riding for
fitness and enjoyment, give yourself some flexibility. That may mean riding
more than you planned, or less, depending how you feel.

> I'd like to do a 60 minute swim in the morning a 60 km bike ride in the
> afternoon and another 60 minute swim. I did a 50/50/50 last year. It
> pretty much knackers me for the day. Time to up it a notch.

Why?

> Anyone else have season goals?

Ride lots and have fun. Find some new routes to explore.

Art Harris

Neil Brooks

May 20th 05, 04:13 PM

Peter Cole > wrote:

>Colorado Bicycler wrote:
>>
>> And to be true to myself.
>>
>> And what I do would be complete "HERESY" to many of you.
>
>Oh, get over yourself.

I see a real Peter Cole pattern emerging here.

Not quite sure what your problem is, but . . . some "serious" cyclists
would quite likely look straight down on CB's more lackadaisical
approach.

Do you feel better jumping on people like this (or me) so forcefully?
Can't you just resist the urge to post these kind of negative and
pointless replies? Just say it aloud in your living room, then move
on.

Maggie

May 20th 05, 04:15 PM

Bill Sornson wrote:
> Just how far CAN Fabrizio stick his finger down his throat?!?
>
Be kind, be sweet, be a gentle man.....
Care and share and always be fair......

NOW STICK YOUR FINGER DOWN YOUR THROAT.

One guy writes something beautiful, and the testoserone Possie attacks.

Maggie.

1oki

May 20th 05, 04:28 PM

"Arthur Harris" > wrote in message
...
> "1oki" wrote:

>> I'd like to do a 60 minute swim in the morning a 60 km bike ride in the
>> afternoon and another 60 minute swim. I did a 50/50/50 last year. It
>> pretty much knackers me for the day. Time to up it a notch.
>
> Why?

To acheive a goal. To cahllenge oneself.

Why not?

--
'Between fight and flight
Is a blind man's sight
And a choice that's right' -jewel

Bill Sornson

May 20th 05, 04:30 PM

Maggie wrote:
> Bill Sornson wrote:
>> Just how far CAN Fabrizio stick his finger down his throat?!?
>>
> Be kind, be sweet, be a gentle man.....
> Care and share and always be fair......
>
> NOW STICK YOUR FINGER DOWN YOUR THROAT.
>
> One guy writes something beautiful, and the testoserone Possie
> attacks.

Actually, Mags, just to be clear... That was my way of saying I *liked*
what CO-Bi wrote. (That it caused Fab to gag is a GOOD thing.)

The Anti-Fab Bill (love his posts, though)

Maggie

May 20th 05, 04:39 PM

Bill Sornson wrote:
> Actually, Mags, just to be clear... That was my way of saying I
*liked*
> what CO-Bi wrote. (That it caused Fab to gag is a GOOD thing.)
>
> The Anti-Fab Bill (love his posts, though)

SORRY BILL!!! My apologies. Forgive me?

Mags

Bill Sornson

May 20th 05, 05:14 PM

Maggie wrote:
> Bill Sornson wrote:
>> Actually, Mags, just to be clear... That was my way of saying I
>> *liked* what CO-Bi wrote. (That it caused Fab to gag is a GOOD
>> thing.)
>>
>> The Anti-Fab Bill (love his posts, though)
>
> SORRY BILL!!! My apologies. Forgive me?

Except for an ex-wife or two, I can't stay mad at a woman. (Especially if I
never was in the first place ;-) )

Enjoy your bike ride this weekend!

BS (no, I mean it)

Maggie

May 20th 05, 05:57 PM

Bill Sornson wrote:
> Enjoy your bike ride this weekend!
>
> BS (no, I mean it)

I just heard it is going to rain. Lucky me. How many ex-wives do you
have?

Maggie

Bill Sornson

May 20th 05, 06:19 PM

Maggie wrote:
> Bill Sornson wrote:
>> Enjoy your bike ride this weekend!

> I just heard it is going to rain. Lucky me. How many ex-wives do
> you have?

Two of which I'm aware. (But there ARE those Vegas receipts...)

First time I was too young. Second time too stupid.

Sigh.

BS

1oki

May 20th 05, 06:59 PM

"Claire Petersky" > wrote in message
...
> "Arthur Harris" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> There's more to life than bicycling.
>
> No! Say it ain't so!

So.

There's preparing to cycle, after-cycle decompression, shopping for bikes
and cycling related accessories. bicycle maintenance & repair, thinking
about cycling routes... I could go on.

--
'Lemme 'splain... No, no time.
Lemme sum up.' -inigo montoya

Joe Canuck

May 20th 05, 07:19 PM

Bill Sornson wrote:

> Maggie wrote:
>
>>Bill Sornson wrote:
>>
>>>Enjoy your bike ride this weekend!
>
>
>>I just heard it is going to rain. Lucky me. How many ex-wives do
>>you have?
>
>
> Two of which I'm aware. (But there ARE those Vegas receipts...)
>
> First time I was too young. Second time too stupid.
>
> Sigh.
>
> BS
>
>

Will there be a third time, or are you too smart for that now? :)

Mike Latondresse

May 20th 05, 07:22 PM

"1oki" > wrote in
:

> Anyone else have season goals?
>
> --
Keep doing what I am doing...I have a early AM commute with my son (40k
on a fixie) and because I am retired ride 5 out of 7 days with my
buddies who are also retired, and as we are going back to France this
fall I am going to do Telegraphie/Glabier and Alp-d Hurez plus others.

Peter Cole

May 20th 05, 07:57 PM

Neil Brooks wrote:
> Peter Cole > wrote:
>
>
>>Colorado Bicycler wrote:
>>
>>>And to be true to myself.
>>>
>>>And what I do would be complete "HERESY" to many of you.
>>
>>Oh, get over yourself.
>
>
> I see a real Peter Cole pattern emerging here.
>
> Not quite sure what your problem is, but . . . some "serious" cyclists
> would quite likely look straight down on CB's more lackadaisical
> approach.

Nobody did. I don't care how he rides, not that I see why you should
care how I should care... I just think he's taking himself more than a
bit too seriously (that's what get over yourself means). I mean, what
does cycling have to do with "HERESY" or self-truth? Who gives a ****?

> Do you feel better jumping on people like this (or me) so forcefully?
> Can't you just resist the urge to post these kind of negative and
> pointless replies? Just say it aloud in your living room, then move
> on.

Sounds like you're still feeling tweaked over the $6,000 bike thread.
I'd be more than happy to revisit and do the whole he said, he said
thing if you feel wounded.

As for the how to be a better person sermonette -- spare me, ok?

Fabrizio Mazzoleni

May 20th 05, 11:21 PM

"Bill Sornson" > wrote in message news:0onje.32525

> . (That it caused Fab to gag is a GOOD thing.)

Funny how his name came up just before tomorrow's
Mezzocorona - Ortisei stage at the Giro d'Italia.

Neil Brooks

May 21st 05, 12:12 AM

Peter Cole > wrote:

>Neil Brooks wrote:
>> Peter Cole > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Colorado Bicycler wrote:
>>>
>>>>And to be true to myself.
>>>>
>>>>And what I do would be complete "HERESY" to many of you.
>>>
>>>Oh, get over yourself.
>>
>>
>> I see a real Peter Cole pattern emerging here.
>>
>> Not quite sure what your problem is, but . . . some "serious" cyclists
>> would quite likely look straight down on CB's more lackadaisical
>> approach.
>
>Nobody did. I don't care how he rides, not that I see why you should
>care how I should care... I just think he's taking himself more than a
>bit too seriously (that's what get over yourself means). I mean, what
>does cycling have to do with "HERESY" or self-truth? Who gives a ****?
>
>
>> Do you feel better jumping on people like this (or me) so forcefully?
>> Can't you just resist the urge to post these kind of negative and
>> pointless replies? Just say it aloud in your living room, then move
>> on.
>
>Sounds like you're still feeling tweaked over the $6,000 bike thread.
>I'd be more than happy to revisit and do the whole he said, he said
>thing if you feel wounded.

Sort of. You were an unprovoked douche bag then. You're an
unprovoked douche bag now. Similarity ends there.

>As for the how to be a better person sermonette -- spare me, ok?

Then let's move right into the "How Peter proved himself a dickhead"
thread. That one will speak for itself.

Much love. Big hugs. Wet kisses.

Bye now.

Maggie

May 21st 05, 01:27 AM

Bill Sornson wrote:
> Maggie wrote:
> > Bill Sornson wrote:
> >> Enjoy your bike ride this weekend!
>
> > I just heard it is going to rain. Lucky me. How many ex-wives do
> > you have?
>
> Two of which I'm aware. (But there ARE those Vegas receipts...)
>
> First time I was too young. Second time too stupid.
>
> Sigh.
>
> BS

Well third time is a charm...so they say. If I could figure out for
"they" are. I think once you are married, you stay there and suffer
for life. ;-)

Maggie

Maggie

May 21st 05, 01:36 AM

Peter Cole wrote:
> As for the how to be a better person sermonette -- spare me, ok?

Were you tied to the computer with aliens forcing you to read the so
called sermonette? Tell us what happened. I am intrigued.

You can spare "yourself" you know. YOU HAVE THE POWER MY SON! Empower
yourself. Do not read posts which do not interest you. What a concept
huh????

Personally, I never read things I am not interested in. If the post
starts out with statistics, math problems or anything containing the
word....wrench....I just skip it.

Air Kisses..
Maggie

Bill Sornson

May 21st 05, 01:41 AM

Joe Canuck wrote:
> Bill Sornson wrote:
>
>> Maggie wrote:
>>
>>> Bill Sornson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Enjoy your bike ride this weekend!
>>
>>
>>> I just heard it is going to rain. Lucky me. How many ex-wives do
>>> you have?
>>
>>
>> Two of which I'm aware. (But there ARE those Vegas receipts...)
>>
>> First time I was too young. Second time too stupid.
>>
>> Sigh.
>>
>> BS
>>
>>
>
> Will there be a third time, or are you too smart for that now? :)

Jaded.

Bill Sornson

May 21st 05, 01:43 AM

Fabrizio Mazzoleni wrote:
> "Bill Sornson" > wrote in message
> news:0onje.32525
>
>> . (That it caused Fab to gag is a GOOD thing.)
>
> Funny how his name came up just before tomorrow's
> Mezzocorona - Ortisei stage at the Giro d'Italia.

Whaddya mean, HIS name?!? Doncha mean, YOUR name?!?

Wizard of Campy?

Tom Keats

May 21st 05, 02:20 AM

In article >,
"Bill Sornson" > writes:
> Fabrizio Mazzoleni wrote:
>> "Bill Sornson" > wrote in message
>> news:0onje.32525
>>
>>> . (That it caused Fab to gag is a GOOD thing.)
>>
>> Funny how his name came up just before tomorrow's
>> Mezzocorona - Ortisei stage at the Giro d'Italia.
>
> Whaddya mean, HIS name?!? Doncha mean, YOUR name?!?

The Fabrizio who posts here is the real Fabrizio's "Mini Me".

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Colorado Bicycler

May 21st 05, 02:38 AM

>Colorado Bicycler wrote:

>> And to be true to myself.

>> And what I do would be complete "HERESY" to many of you.

Peter Cole > wrote:

>Oh, get over yourself.

Neil Brooks wrote:

>I see a real Peter Cole pattern emerging here.

Not quite sure what your problem is, but . . . some "serious" cyclists
would quite likely look straight down on CB's more lackadaisical
approach.

Do you feel better jumping on people like this (or me) so forcefully?
Can't you just resist the urge to post these kind of negative and
pointless replies? Just say it aloud in your living room, then move
on.

Neil Brooks May 20, 11:13 am

Colorado Bicycler responds:

Peter Cole is just upset because I told him to try to be a bit more
positive - his negativism is hurting his self-esteem, and he just can't
bring himself to make a positive statement about anyone or anything!

Dr. Phil - could you help Peter out?

As far as the "HERESY" thing, yes there are many riders who take
bicycling so seriously, that reading about someone with a laid-back
approach WOULD be heresy to them (hmm... might that include Peter?)

Anyway, off to Yellowstone to dos ome sight seeing and perhaps a bit of
riding.

Err - Peter - you don't live in Wyoming, do you?

Tom Keats

May 21st 05, 09:13 AM

In article . com>,
"Colorado Bicycler" > writes:

> As far as the "HERESY" thing, yes there are many riders who take
> bicycling so seriously, that reading about someone with a laid-back
> approach WOULD be heresy to them

I don't think so. I think there's a general acceptance that
individuals have their own priorities. So much so, that there's
no need to feel defensive, or proud, or embarrassed, or superior,
or inferior about one's own priorities. In the long run it doesn't
matter what other people think anyways, unless you really /need/
their acceptance. FWIW you've got mine. But so does everybody
else that doesn't hurt the world with what they do. I believe
most people feel the same way. You are far from being persona
non grata just because of how you like to ride.

> (hmm... might that include Peter?)

To the best of my knowledge he's never accused anyone
of cycling heresy. So I don't really think it's fair
to accuse Peter of being an accuser.

peace,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Michael Warner

May 21st 05, 09:36 AM

On 20 May 2005 18:38:49 -0700, Colorado Bicycler wrote:

> As far as the "HERESY" thing, yes there are many riders who take
> bicycling so seriously, that reading about someone with a laid-back
> approach WOULD be heresy to them (hmm... might that include Peter?)

It sounds as though /you/ take it very seriously, writing such a long spiel
on the subject and sitting there fantasizing about what other people might
think of why and how you ride. Seems to me you were trolling for exactly
that response so that you could say "See? The nasty roadies really do hate
me!"

Speaking as one of those nasty roadies, I wish people on mountain bikes
(aka tractors) /would/ go and commune with nature more, or at least find a
bike path, because they're a bloody obstacle on the road - more so than
cars on some group rides.

There, that should be a nice bit of grist for your mill :-)

--
bpo gallery at http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/mvw1/bpo

Michael Warner

May 21st 05, 09:37 AM

On Fri, 20 May 2005 11:08:11 -0400, Arthur Harris wrote:

> There's more to life than bicycling. Those "outside distractions" are what
> life is all about.

Don't you think it's up to each of us to decide what life is "all about"?
Some people are happiest when they can focus completely on what
they like to do best.

--
bpo gallery at http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/mvw1/bpo

Bill Baka

May 21st 05, 11:11 AM

Tom Keats wrote:
> In article . com>,
> "Colorado Bicycler" > writes:
>
>
>>As far as the "HERESY" thing, yes there are many riders who take
>>bicycling so seriously, that reading about someone with a laid-back
>>approach WOULD be heresy to them
>
>
> I don't think so. I think there's a general acceptance that
> individuals have their own priorities. So much so, that there's
> no need to feel defensive, or proud, or embarrassed, or superior,
> or inferior about one's own priorities. In the long run it doesn't
> matter what other people think anyways, unless you really /need/
> their acceptance. FWIW you've got mine. But so does everybody
> else that doesn't hurt the world with what they do. I believe
> most people feel the same way. You are far from being persona
> non grata just because of how you like to ride.
>
>
>>(hmm... might that include Peter?)
>
>
> To the best of my knowledge he's never accused anyone
> of cycling heresy. So I don't really think it's fair
> to accuse Peter of being an accuser.
>
>
> peace,
> Tom
>
I ride to ride and be under my own power and not worry about the price
of gas or smog, or an engine rebuild or anything major expensive
happening, and that inludes me being in good enough shape to be one of
those old people who buy electric scooters ans sit on their fat asses.
I may never be race material but I will never give up and beone of those
people who drive those electric 'scooters' into the McDonalds at
Wal-Mart. The thought of living like that just makes me ride more and
act like a kid and embarass my grandkids and wife. I ride, run (sprint,
forget jogging) and do other odd things like a much younger (30'ish)
father should be doing with them. To hell with other people's opinions
of your activities, just go out and do them and have fun.
Bill Baka

Peter Cole

May 21st 05, 04:22 PM

Neil Brooks wrote:

>>Neil Brooks wrote:

>>>Can't you just resist the urge to post these kind of negative and
>>>pointless replies? Just say it aloud in your living room, then move
>>>on.

> You were an unprovoked douche bag then. You're an
> unprovoked douche bag now.
>
> Then let's move right into the "How Peter proved himself a dickhead"

Thanks for the lesson in civility, Neil.

Peter Cole

May 21st 05, 04:32 PM

Colorado Bicycler wrote:
> Colorado Bicycler responds:
>
> Peter Cole is just upset because I told him to try to be a bit more
> positive - his negativism is hurting his self-esteem, and he just can't
> bring himself to make a positive statement about anyone or anything!
>
> Dr. Phil - could you help Peter out?
>
> As far as the "HERESY" thing, yes there are many riders who take
> bicycling so seriously, that reading about someone with a laid-back
> approach WOULD be heresy to them (hmm... might that include Peter?)

Ask Dr. Phil about projection, as that's what you're doing. The "attack"
for "HERESY" is all in your own mind. Frankly, I don't give a whit where
or how you ride, or even if you ride at all. I don't ride to "be true to
myself", I don't even know what that means. You're the one imbuing
cycling with latent meanings, I just ride.

> Anyway, off to Yellowstone to dos ome sight seeing and perhaps a bit of
> riding.
>
> Err - Peter - you don't live in Wyoming, do you?

No, so don't worry, I won't be riding behind you screaming "HERETIC!".
You so need to get over yourself.

Neil Brooks

May 21st 05, 05:01 PM

Michael Warner > wrote:

>On 20 May 2005 18:38:49 -0700, Colorado Bicycler wrote:
>
>> As far as the "HERESY" thing, yes there are many riders who take
>> bicycling so seriously, that reading about someone with a laid-back
>> approach WOULD be heresy to them (hmm... might that include Peter?)
>
>It sounds as though /you/ take it very seriously, writing such a long spiel
>on the subject and sitting there fantasizing about what other people might
>think of why and how you ride. Seems to me you were trolling for exactly
>that response so that you could say "See? The nasty roadies really do hate
>me!"

Obviously, Your Mileage *Has* varied.

The roadies at the shop where I bought my bike "warned" me off of
mtb-style (double sided) pedals on a road bike because of what the
"real roadies" would surely say. They also told me what might happen
if I showed up on Saturday's club ride with a 3x chainring and
unshaved legs.

I couldn't care less. I ride the mtb pedals and I'll ride where I
like. It's obvious that some people may care deeply, and may lean
toward being vocal about it. Why? Dunno. Maybe those guys tend to
frequent rec.bicycles.racing, but rest assured: they exist.

Tom Keats said:

>To the best of my knowledge he's never accused anyone
>of cycling heresy. So I don't really think it's fair
>to accuse Peter of being an accuser.

>FWIW you've got [my acceptance]. But so does everybody
>else that doesn't hurt the world with what they do.

A response like "Oh, get over yourself--" whatever else it is -- is
combative, petulant, incendiary, and hostile. My point was, Mr.
Cole's comments *did* hurt the world.

We have another frequent contributor on this forum whose signature had
her calling herself the "Meditative Cyclist." I think that's sort of
cool. I also think it's the sort of thing that *might* engender a
similar 'attack' from Peter Cole.

I'd prefer that attack never happen. I'd rather he leave those people
alone.

Tom Keats

May 21st 05, 06:20 PM

In article >,
Bill Baka > writes:
>> Tom
>>
> I ride to ride and be under my own power and not worry about the price
> of gas or smog, or an engine rebuild or anything major expensive
> happening, and that inludes me being in good enough shape to be one of
> those old people who buy electric scooters ans sit on their fat asses.
> I may never be race material but I will never give up and beone of those
> people who drive those electric 'scooters' into the McDonalds at
> Wal-Mart. The thought of living like that just makes me ride more and
> act like a kid and embarass my grandkids and wife. I ride, run (sprint,
> forget jogging) and do other odd things like a much younger (30'ish)
> father should be doing with them.

Remember building and walking on stilts, as a kid? I used to
do that. Got pretty good, too. One of these days I've gotta
see if I've still got it. Except as the years go by, I become
less good at heights.

> To hell with other people's opinions
> of your activities, just go out and do them and have fun.

Well, see, I'm genuinely interested in other people's opinions
and ways of looking at things. Sometimes there's good stuff to
learn from them. So I invite and welcome diverse opinions,
viewpoints, experiences and considerations. And disagreement,
and elaboration, and correction. After all, I figure that's
what discussion is all about. But if anyone deigns to suggest
their own style or type of riding automatically makes them some
kind of picked-on martyr or pariah, they'd better be prepared
for some discussion, because:

a) people here in r.b.m know that riding is too good a thing to
deprecate with such an attitude, and

b) people here in r.b.m are much more supportive than critical
(even when the supportiveness might at first sound critical,)
and to suggest otherwise is insulting.

cheers, & keep the shiny side up,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Peter Cole

May 21st 05, 09:54 PM

Neil Brooks wrote:

> Michael Warner > wrote:
>>Seems to me you were trolling for exactly
>>that response so that you could say "See? The nasty roadies really do hate
>>me!"

I agree, the post was troll-ish. The poster was looking for a reaction
(other than apathy). It's very self-centered to go around thinking that
you are profoundly affecting others, that aside, I resented the implicit
accusation -- that there would be people in this NG who would find
whatever manner of cycling he did HERETICAL.

> The roadies at the shop where I bought my bike "warned" me off of
> mtb-style (double sided) pedals on a road bike because of what the
> "real roadies" would surely say. They also told me what might happen
> if I showed up on Saturday's club ride with a 3x chainring and
> unshaved legs.

And you believed them? The kids in bike shops are fountains of spew. I
ride with a lot of people who are on racing teams. All of my bikes have
MTB pedals, most have triples, and I have never shaved my legs. Not only
that, I wear a "MTB" helmet with visor, never team jerseys (no logos)
and have fenders on some of my bikes. I should be generating a
snicker-fest wherever I go. Doesn't happen. I've been doing club rides
for many years.

I think racing kit and shaved legs look great. I just don't find it too
practical. I'd rather spend my money/time elsewhere. Most of the "hard
core" roadies I know can't do the most basic kinds of bike maintenance
and their understanding of bicycles and physiology is minimal and
usually wrong. It's impossible to take their opinions too seriously.

> I couldn't care less. I ride the mtb pedals and I'll ride where I
> like. It's obvious that some people may care deeply, and may lean
> toward being vocal about it. Why? Dunno. Maybe those guys tend to
> frequent rec.bicycles.racing, but rest assured: they exist.

So why don't people save their rants for *that* NG? (if those charges
are actually true -- I have no idea). Or at least wait for a criticism
before getting defensive? I think this is all invented and you and
ColoradoCyclist are chasing phantoms.

> Tom Keats said:
>
>
>>To the best of my knowledge he's never accused anyone
>>of cycling heresy. So I don't really think it's fair
>>to accuse Peter of being an accuser.
>
>
>>FWIW you've got [my acceptance]. But so does everybody
>>else that doesn't hurt the world with what they do.
>
>
> A response like "Oh, get over yourself--" whatever else it is -- is
> combative, petulant, incendiary, and hostile. My point was, Mr.
> Cole's comments *did* hurt the world.

I didn't call anybody nasty names.

The poster said at the end of his post:

"And to be true to myself."

"And what I do would be complete "HERESY" to many of you."

That's an explicit accusation of at least some sort of fanaticism and
perhaps phoniness as well. That was a bunch of judgmental crap. *That*
was "combative, petulant, incendiary and hostile". My response was that
he should not take himself so seriously. He slanders others while
claiming (non-existent) slander. My response did not reflect the full
extent of my reaction.

> We have another frequent contributor on this forum whose signature had
> her calling herself the "Meditative Cyclist." I think that's sort of
> cool. I also think it's the sort of thing that *might* engender a
> similar 'attack' from Peter Cole.
>
> I'd prefer that attack never happen. I'd rather he leave those people
> alone.

Great. Now I'm (in your imagination) "attacking" every sensitive soul on
this NG. What a load. You're tripping. I can't be responsible for the
sins I commit in your mind, or can I?

Peter Cole

May 21st 05, 10:03 PM

Maggie wrote:
> Peter Cole wrote:
>
>>As for the how to be a better person sermonette -- spare me, ok?
>
>
>
> Were you tied to the computer with aliens forcing you to read the so
> called sermonette? Tell us what happened. I am intrigued.
>
> You can spare "yourself" you know. YOU HAVE THE POWER MY SON! Empower
> yourself. Do not read posts which do not interest you. What a concept
> huh????

Are you suggesting I not read posts addressed to me? Or is it that you
think this whole topic should be of no interest to me? I'm afraid I
don't have a clue what you mean.

> Personally, I never read things I am not interested in. If the post
> starts out with statistics, math problems or anything containing the
> word....wrench....I just skip it.

Me too, at least deliberately troll-ish threads. I don't think I've
responded to any of your "provocative" topics, for instance.

Bill Baka

May 21st 05, 11:05 PM

Tom Keats wrote:
> In article >,
> Bill Baka > writes:
>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>
>>I ride to ride and be under my own power and not worry about the price
>>of gas or smog, or an engine rebuild or anything major expensive
>>happening, and that inludes me being in good enough shape to be one of
>>those old people who buy electric scooters ans sit on their fat asses.
>>I may never be race material but I will never give up and beone of those
>>people who drive those electric 'scooters' into the McDonalds at
>>Wal-Mart. The thought of living like that just makes me ride more and
>>act like a kid and embarass my grandkids and wife. I ride, run (sprint,
>>forget jogging) and do other odd things like a much younger (30'ish)
>>father should be doing with them.
>
>
> Remember building and walking on stilts, as a kid? I used to
> do that. Got pretty good, too. One of these days I've gotta
> see if I've still got it. Except as the years go by, I become
> less good at heights.

I dunno. I still can climb trees higher than the kids will dare and that
doesn't change with age. There is only the fear that some uptight
conventional adults (or cops) will come by and think I need to be locked
up for my own protection. I participate with my grandkids while trying
to teach them the safe way at the same time, even if it is something as
silly as how to climb a tree safely. I may still be doing it at 90+
since it doesn't require much effort, just some contortions to get to
the next level. If we ever have a whole generation raised in the city
who have never had a tree to climb then I feel sorry for them. That was
one of the fun things about being a kid in a neighborhood in Illinois
with lots and lots of good climbing trees. I know OT, but what isn't
these days?
>
>
>>To hell with other people's opinions
>>of your activities, just go out and do them and have fun.
>
>
> Well, see, I'm genuinely interested in other people's opinions
> and ways of looking at things. Sometimes there's good stuff to
> learn from them. So I invite and welcome diverse opinions,
> viewpoints, experiences and considerations. And disagreement,
> and elaboration, and correction. After all, I figure that's
> what discussion is all about. But if anyone deigns to suggest
> their own style or type of riding automatically makes them some
> kind of picked-on martyr or pariah, they'd better be prepared
> for some discussion, because:
>
> a) people here in r.b.m know that riding is too good a thing to
> deprecate with such an attitude, and

So very true.
>
> b) people here in r.b.m are much more supportive than critical
> (even when the supportiveness might at first sound critical,)
> and to suggest otherwise is insulting.

Usually true, but I have had to put up with a lot of flak because some
people just can't believe the things I used to do when I was younger,
and some that I still do. I am one of the first of the baby boomer
generation (1948) and still do things that are not deemed proper for my
age, like climbing (trees or rocks), taking a group of 7-13 year old
kids out for a group ride, and even showing them the proper way to do so
gymnastic feats. Some of the parents looked at me like I was Michael
Jackson or something since I always had an entourage of blond girls,
friends of my granddaughter and 5 sisters that went as a unit, but they
came home every time having learned something. They were quite amazed
that I could roll from a squat to a handstand and then extend to a full
headstand and not fall over. Some of then I taught to do that and it was
quite an accomplishment for them. I like to keep in shape, but I also
like to give the kids something better to do than throw rocks.
I don't want to grow up.
Bill Baka
>
>
> cheers, & keep the shiny side up,
> Tom
>

Bill Baka

May 21st 05, 11:37 PM

Neil Brooks wrote:
> Michael Warner > wrote:
>
>
>>On 20 May 2005 18:38:49 -0700, Colorado Bicycler wrote:
>>
>>
>>>As far as the "HERESY" thing, yes there are many riders who take
>>>bicycling so seriously, that reading about someone with a laid-back
>>>approach WOULD be heresy to them (hmm... might that include Peter?)
>>
>>It sounds as though /you/ take it very seriously, writing such a long spiel
>>on the subject and sitting there fantasizing about what other people might
>>think of why and how you ride. Seems to me you were trolling for exactly
>>that response so that you could say "See? The nasty roadies really do hate
>>me!"
>
>
> Obviously, Your Mileage *Has* varied.
>
> The roadies at the shop where I bought my bike "warned" me off of
> mtb-style (double sided) pedals on a road bike because of what the
> "real roadies" would surely say. They also told me what might happen
> if I showed up on Saturday's club ride with a 3x chainring and
> unshaved legs.

I alway use a 3x chainring for those just in case occasions where I may
actually be too tired to want to push a bigger gear, and it has
happened. Shaving my legs I would relegate to the 'girly man' club.
>
> I couldn't care less. I ride the mtb pedals and I'll ride where I
> like. It's obvious that some people may care deeply, and may lean
> toward being vocal about it. Why? Dunno. Maybe those guys tend to
> frequent rec.bicycles.racing, but rest assured: they exist.

Good for you. It isn't just about mileage but more about fun and
exercise on the bike, or using the bike to get to a place to have some fun.
>
> Tom Keats said:
>
>
>>To the best of my knowledge he's never accused anyone
>>of cycling heresy. So I don't really think it's fair
>>to accuse Peter of being an accuser.
>
>
>>FWIW you've got [my acceptance]. But so does everybody
>>else that doesn't hurt the world with what they do.
>
>
> A response like "Oh, get over yourself--" whatever else it is -- is
> combative, petulant, incendiary, and hostile. My point was, Mr.
> Cole's comments *did* hurt the world.
>
> We have another frequent contributor on this forum whose signature had
> her calling herself the "Meditative Cyclist." I think that's sort of
> cool. I also think it's the sort of thing that *might* engender a
> similar 'attack' from Peter Cole.
>
> I'd prefer that attack never happen. I'd rather he leave those people
> alone.

This is supposed to be a bicycling forum but sometimes it seems like the
Catholic versus the Muslims, "My way is the only way".
Too many combative people these days.
City boys?
Bill Baka

Stephen Harding

May 22nd 05, 11:32 AM

Neil Brooks wrote:

> I couldn't care less. I ride the mtb pedals and I'll ride where I
> like. It's obvious that some people may care deeply, and may lean
> toward being vocal about it. Why? Dunno. Maybe those guys tend to
> frequent rec.bicycles.racing, but rest assured: they exist.

I have a friend who rode light duty MTB. I got him thinking of
buying a genuine road bike as we had started to do some organized
rides and he saw the difference a road bike can make over the MTB
during such excursions.

He bought a very nice Klein, then proceeded to put his MTB pedals
on it. To soften pedal interaction with his feet (he has tinges
of arthritis here and there), he then wrapped the pedals in duct
tape! Not color coordinated duct tape mind you; *silver* duct tape
(the bike is a pretty two tone blue).

He's thinking about trying to put those large platform pedals on
the bike like the BMX'ers use.

Now I'm not prone towards "roadie snobbery", but I told him if he
"degraded" that nice new Klein much more I simply might not be
able to ride with him!

Rather strange coming from someone whose [summer] "road getup" is
a pair of jean cutoffs, T shirt, Teva sandals, hardware store dark
safety glasses and a broad, stiff brimmed hat!

("The Fab" would have to avert his eyes or be turned to stone!)

SMH

Stephen Harding

May 22nd 05, 11:49 AM

Peter Cole wrote:

> And you believed them? The kids in bike shops are fountains of spew. I
> ride with a lot of people who are on racing teams. All of my bikes have
> MTB pedals, most have triples, and I have never shaved my legs. Not only
> that, I wear a "MTB" helmet with visor, never team jerseys (no logos)
> and have fenders on some of my bikes. I should be generating a
> snicker-fest wherever I go. Doesn't happen. I've been doing club rides
> for many years.

I ride in a very bike friendly area; both MTB and road. I've seen
numbers of joggers diminish while the numbers of people on bikes
increase. And bikers of all types. This area supports lots of
road and MTB activity.

But I have to say there is a sort of snobbery in the road riding
crowd. The club riders seem worst.

All duded up in their riding getup, cruising along at a very brisk
pace, you rarely get a nod or "hi" as they pass you by in either
direction relative to you. They seem to sometimes come with a sort
of gang mentality. "Us" versus "them".

It's worse on some of these organized rides, with my experiences on
three RAGBRAIs perhaps the worst. These riding clubs that join
forces creating sometimes extremely large pace lines roaring along
in the left lane of the road.

They're going faster than everyone else so it's only natural they'd
be parked on the left side of the road, but I've heard and seen
some awfully rude behavior from some of these guys towards anyone
seen to be slowing their pace, both from within their own pace line,
and especially to those multitudes of apparent unworthies, pedaling
outside of it.

My brother has come to road riding from MTB riding. He feels there
is much more snobbery in the road rider community, but feels even
on the trails, the "hi" or nod or wave has become increasingly rare.

Too bad. It's a tough world out there on the road some times. Us
two wheeler, self-propelled types need to stick together!

SMH

Michael Warner

May 22nd 05, 12:20 PM

On Sat, 21 May 2005 16:01:46 GMT, Neil Brooks wrote:

> The roadies at the shop where I bought my bike "warned" me off of
> mtb-style (double sided) pedals on a road bike because of what the
> "real roadies" would surely say. They also told me what might happen
> if I showed up on Saturday's club ride with a 3x chainring and
> unshaved legs.

Yeah, sure. I can just imagine what you said to solicit that comment,
assuming it's true. I also used those SPD pedals, as do about 20% of the
folks I ride with, and no-one has ever commented on it, including some
hot-shot racers. Ditto shaved legs, triples (I had one on an earlier bike)
etc.

--
bpo gallery at http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/mvw1/bpo

Michael Warner

May 22nd 05, 12:25 PM

On Sat, 21 May 2005 16:54:39 -0400, Peter Cole wrote:

> And you believed them? The kids in bike shops are fountains of spew. I
> ride with a lot of people who are on racing teams. All of my bikes have
> MTB pedals, most have triples, and I have never shaved my legs. Not only
> that, I wear a "MTB" helmet with visor, never team jerseys (no logos)
> and have fenders on some of my bikes. I should be generating a
> snicker-fest wherever I go. Doesn't happen. I've been doing club rides
> for many years.

The only things I've /ever/ seen anyone ticked off for on a group ride are
riding dangerously and repeatedly messing up whatever formation we're
trying to work in. It simply doesn't matter what you ride and wear.

--
bpo gallery at http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/mvw1/bpo

Peter Cole

May 22nd 05, 12:48 PM

Stephen Harding wrote:

> All duded up in their riding getup, cruising along at a very brisk
> pace, you rarely get a nod or "hi" as they pass you by in either
> direction relative to you. They seem to sometimes come with a sort
> of gang mentality. "Us" versus "them".

When I'm riding alone, I'll sometimes wave, nod, or greet other cyclists
or, as likely, pedestrians. Usually the gesture is perfunctory, just a
nod, or finger wave, sometimes nothing. I don't expect greetings, nor do
I feel offended if they're absent. When I'm riding in a pace line I
never greet others, things are just a bit too busy. I think offense, to
a large extent, is in the mind of the beholder.

> It's worse on some of these organized rides, with my experiences on
> three RAGBRAIs perhaps the worst. These riding clubs that join
> forces creating sometimes extremely large pace lines roaring along
> in the left lane of the road.
>
> They're going faster than everyone else so it's only natural they'd
> be parked on the left side of the road, but I've heard and seen
> some awfully rude behavior from some of these guys towards anyone
> seen to be slowing their pace, both from within their own pace line,
> and especially to those multitudes of apparent unworthies, pedaling
> outside of it.

I detest large group rides, so I never attend them. One of the things I
dislike most about large groups of riders is their lack of discipline on
the road. Riders tend to drift all over the place, not paying much
attention, people crash. I think it's a pointless and no doubt
frustrating exercise to attempt a fast pace line ride in the midst of
all that, I could see it generating a lot of conflict, and ire. I
wouldn't attribute crabby attitudes to snobbery.

> My brother has come to road riding from MTB riding. He feels there
> is much more snobbery in the road rider community, but feels even
> on the trails, the "hi" or nod or wave has become increasingly rare.

I do a lot of mountain biking. I've never encountered teams of off-road
riders. I don't find any real difference other than that in behavior or
presence of snobbery. Greetings are sporadic, both in giving and
receiving, and I don't read anything into it. I haven't noticed any
trend in the decade or so I've been doing it. There's a fair amount of
violation of trail etiquette, but I figure most of that is ignorance,
not rudeness.

> Too bad. It's a tough world out there on the road some times. Us
> two wheeler, self-propelled types need to stick together!

I don't have such a beleaguered attitude. The only "solidarity" that's
really meaningful is when cyclists get together to support legislation
to protect our rights. Even in that area, there is so much divergence
over what represents progress that it's difficult to find common ground.

My favorite kind of riding is to spend the whole day alone, lost in my
thoughts and immersed in the ambiance of wherever I'm passing through. I
don't find it a particularly tough world at those times, and the last
thing I want to think about is someone else's attitude towards me or
anything else.

Michael Warner

May 22nd 05, 01:15 PM

On Sun, 22 May 2005 10:49:22 GMT, Stephen Harding wrote:

> All duded up in their riding getup, cruising along at a very brisk
> pace, you rarely get a nod or "hi" as they pass you by in either
> direction relative to you. They seem to sometimes come with a sort
> of gang mentality. "Us" versus "them".

Unless you've ridden in a fast, tight group for an hour or more, you might
not appreciate the constant effort and concentration required. It demands
that you pretty much ignore anything except the group and whatever
obstacles it encounters.

--
bpo gallery at http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/mvw1/bpo

Geezer Boy

May 22nd 05, 03:16 PM

On Sun, 22 May 2005 07:48:59 -0400, Peter Cole
> wrote:

[snip]
>
>My favorite kind of riding is to spend the whole day alone, lost in my
>thoughts and immersed in the ambiance of wherever I'm passing through. I
>don't find it a particularly tough world at those times, and the last
>thing I want to think about is someone else's attitude towards me or
>anything else.

Hear, hear. I concur. Groups of one are the best. (in the group health
insurance industry, there are actually groups of one; it is not an
oxymoron). You get to travel with your best friend, you don't have to
listen to tiresome yak, or put up with others' annoying habits. Or
compromise on where to go and what to do. These advantages are hard to
overcome.

G.B.

Neil Brooks

May 22nd 05, 03:47 PM

Michael Warner > wrote:

>On Sat, 21 May 2005 16:01:46 GMT, Neil Brooks wrote:
>
>> The roadies at the shop where I bought my bike "warned" me off of
>> mtb-style (double sided) pedals on a road bike because of what the
>> "real roadies" would surely say. They also told me what might happen
>> if I showed up on Saturday's club ride with a 3x chainring and
>> unshaved legs.
>
>Yeah, sure. I can just imagine what you said to solicit that comment,

Oh, Michael: do tell. What *did* I say to Elicit that comment???

>assuming it's true.

Doesn't fit your schema so I must be lying. Beautiful. Just
beautiful.

>I also used those SPD pedals, as do about 20% of the
>folks I ride with, and no-one has ever commented on it, including some
>hot-shot racers. Ditto shaved legs, triples (I had one on an earlier bike)
>etc.

There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your
philosophy.

I love the attitude that says, "I ain't seen it, so it ain't so."

Stephen Harding

May 22nd 05, 08:19 PM

Michael Warner wrote:

> On Sun, 22 May 2005 10:49:22 GMT, Stephen Harding wrote:
>
>>All duded up in their riding getup, cruising along at a very brisk
>>pace, you rarely get a nod or "hi" as they pass you by in either
>>direction relative to you. They seem to sometimes come with a sort
>>of gang mentality. "Us" versus "them".
>
> Unless you've ridden in a fast, tight group for an hour or more, you might
> not appreciate the constant effort and concentration required. It demands
> that you pretty much ignore anything except the group and whatever
> obstacles it encounters.

Possibly so.

I mostly ride alone. I've had pace lines form up behind me on
the few organized rides I've done. I don't much care (I've heard
some people get angry when someone drafts). Just don't hit me and
don't expect me to point out road obstacles to people behind.
Stay behind me all day if you want, just take care of yourself.

Pace lines make me nervous, so I can see where they might demand
someone's full attention to the point of "ignoring" what's going
on around them (beyond the immediate pace line).

Sort of eliminates one of the best parts of bicycling IMHO!

SMH

SMH

Stephen Harding

May 22nd 05, 08:55 PM

Peter Cole wrote:

> I detest large group rides, so I never attend them. One of the things I
> dislike most about large groups of riders is their lack of discipline on
> the road. Riders tend to drift all over the place, not paying much
> attention, people crash. I think it's a pointless and no doubt
> frustrating exercise to attempt a fast pace line ride in the midst of
> all that, I could see it generating a lot of conflict, and ire. I
> wouldn't attribute crabby attitudes to snobbery.

Well to each his own, but I think *everyone* should try an organized
ride at some point in their bicycling experience.

I'm largely a lone rider as well, but I have done repeats of several
group rides, with RAGBRAI (the ride across Iowa) being really the
most interesting.

It's not merely a bicycling experience. It's a sort of state of mind
as well as a joy in seeing the broad range of bicycling fabric of
this country (and quite a few foreign countries as well).

People who clearly are high powered cyclists, probably capable of
winning some international races, the poseurs who merely spend lots
of money to make their bicycling mark. People who clearly haven't been
on a bike in years, including 400 pounders slogging up...or walking up,
one of the many Iowa hills. Kids on Huffies and people on tandems,
triples and even quadruples, in both traditional and recumbent form
going by.

People with dogs on the back of their bikes, large stereo systems
blasting Brandenburg Concertos or Dead Kennedy's or Perljam! People
dressed in black and yellow stripes (The "killer bee" team) or "Team
Gourmet" who eat 7 course meals each night. Old school buses serving
cycle clubs painted in multitude of bright colors with welded decks on
their tops for end of day liquid refreshment and lounging!

As you can see, I'm quite enthralled with this week long Iowa ride.
I've done it three times and will probably do it again. I ride with
some people on my "team" that have done it 10-15 times or at least
parts of it. Combine it with small Iowa farm towns thrilled to have
13,000+ bicyclists pedal through their town (and incidently bring in
more on one day to the local boy scouts, 4-H or church group than
many previous years combined) and you end with a cultural experience
that goes far beyond bicycling.

You're a fool or a showoff if you attend such a ride with the attitude
of showing others how fast you can go in your pace line. It's not that
sort of riding environment, and I attribute anyone who does do that sort
of thing in that sort of a ride as a snob just attempting to grandstand.

Speed is relative though. I go faster than most persons on this ride.
I'm not showing off. I could care less. So perhaps the riding clubs
doing the pace line thing aren't either. But that's the way I tend to
see it.

Like you, I feel the best riding is alone with your thoughts. But I
think an organized ride can really expand one's biking experience. Not
the sort of thing to do every month or even, in my case, every year, but
an event that improves the overall quality of my bicycling experience.

SMH

Arthur Harris

May 22nd 05, 10:55 PM

"Stephen Harding" wrote:

> Pace lines make me nervous, so I can see where they might demand
> someone's full attention to the point of "ignoring" what's going
> on around them (beyond the immediate pace line).
>
> Sort of eliminates one of the best parts of bicycling IMHO!

I absolutely agree with that. I've done lots of paceline riding in the past,
and it does give a certain adrenaline rush. But at the end of the ride, you
realize you've ignored most of the sights and sounds outside of the pack and
(hopefully) traffic and road conditions. I find I'm much more relaxed and
tuned in to my surroundings when riding solo, and I still get a good workout
(even if my speed is a bit slower).

Whatever floats yer boat.

Art Harris

Bill Baka

May 23rd 05, 02:52 AM

Stephen Harding wrote:
> Neil Brooks wrote:
>
>> I couldn't care less. I ride the mtb pedals and I'll ride where I
>> like. It's obvious that some people may care deeply, and may lean
>> toward being vocal about it. Why? Dunno. Maybe those guys tend to
>> frequent rec.bicycles.racing, but rest assured: they exist.
>
>
> I have a friend who rode light duty MTB. I got him thinking of
> buying a genuine road bike as we had started to do some organized
> rides and he saw the difference a road bike can make over the MTB
> during such excursions.
>
> He bought a very nice Klein, then proceeded to put his MTB pedals
> on it. To soften pedal interaction with his feet (he has tinges
> of arthritis here and there), he then wrapped the pedals in duct
> tape! Not color coordinated duct tape mind you; *silver* duct tape
> (the bike is a pretty two tone blue).
>
> He's thinking about trying to put those large platform pedals on
> the bike like the BMX'ers use.
>
> Now I'm not prone towards "roadie snobbery", but I told him if he
> "degraded" that nice new Klein much more I simply might not be
> able to ride with him!
>
> Rather strange coming from someone whose [summer] "road getup" is
> a pair of jean cutoffs, T shirt, Teva sandals, hardware store dark
> safety glasses and a broad, stiff brimmed hat!
>
> ("The Fab" would have to avert his eyes or be turned to stone!)
>
>
> SMH
>
Heh,
You sound like you ride like me. Have fun and let the others fall of
their bikes staring at you. I posted the link to my Mongoose in progress
a few days ago and it turns out I am going to need all the water bottles
I can mount, front forks, rear down tubes, under the front lower frame
tube, just everywhere. I took my 13 year old grandson out on Saturday
and he killed off two 24 Oz. bottles of water in one 25 mile ride and i
got one.
Let people stare, or as on here, brag about their speed on the road. To
me the road is just the means to the dirt and the fun.
Bill Baka

Bill Baka

May 23rd 05, 03:00 AM

Stephen Harding wrote:
> Peter Cole wrote:
>
>> And you believed them? The kids in bike shops are fountains of spew. I
>> ride with a lot of people who are on racing teams. All of my bikes
>> have MTB pedals, most have triples, and I have never shaved my legs.
>> Not only that, I wear a "MTB" helmet with visor, never team jerseys
>> (no logos) and have fenders on some of my bikes. I should be
>> generating a snicker-fest wherever I go. Doesn't happen. I've been
>> doing club rides for many years.
>
>
> I ride in a very bike friendly area; both MTB and road. I've seen
> numbers of joggers diminish while the numbers of people on bikes
> increase. And bikers of all types. This area supports lots of
> road and MTB activity.
>
> But I have to say there is a sort of snobbery in the road riding
> crowd. The club riders seem worst.
>
> All duded up in their riding getup, cruising along at a very brisk
> pace, you rarely get a nod or "hi" as they pass you by in either
> direction relative to you. They seem to sometimes come with a sort
> of gang mentality. "Us" versus "them".

Too true. I worked for 3 years in Healdsburg in the wine country where
there were plenty of nice rides to take and mountains to climb and I was
the only one with a MTB. The other 3 roadies stuck together and tried to
get in 20 miles in about 45 minutes then take a 2 minute shower upon
return after clogging down the hallways in their clip on shoes. All 3
were brits and all 3 were snobs. One had a PhD and insisted on being
called 'Doctor', the other had somehow inherited a 'sir' on the front of
his name and the third had neither and was still barely tolerable. I
used to enjoy beating them up in engineering review meetings since i
couldn't do it on a mountain bike at lunch time.
Bill Baka
>
> It's worse on some of these organized rides, with my experiences on
> three RAGBRAIs perhaps the worst. These riding clubs that join
> forces creating sometimes extremely large pace lines roaring along
> in the left lane of the road.
>
> They're going faster than everyone else so it's only natural they'd
> be parked on the left side of the road, but I've heard and seen
> some awfully rude behavior from some of these guys towards anyone
> seen to be slowing their pace, both from within their own pace line,
> and especially to those multitudes of apparent unworthies, pedaling
> outside of it.
>
> My brother has come to road riding from MTB riding. He feels there
> is much more snobbery in the road rider community, but feels even
> on the trails, the "hi" or nod or wave has become increasingly rare.
>
> Too bad. It's a tough world out there on the road some times. Us
> two wheeler, self-propelled types need to stick together!
>
>
> SMH
>
>

Bill Baka

May 23rd 05, 03:09 AM

Geezer Boy wrote:
> On Sun, 22 May 2005 07:48:59 -0400, Peter Cole
> > wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>My favorite kind of riding is to spend the whole day alone, lost in my
>>thoughts and immersed in the ambiance of wherever I'm passing through. I
>>don't find it a particularly tough world at those times, and the last
>>thing I want to think about is someone else's attitude towards me or
>>anything else.
>
>
>
> Hear, hear. I concur. Groups of one are the best. (in the group health
> insurance industry, there are actually groups of one; it is not an
> oxymoron). You get to travel with your best friend, you don't have to
> listen to tiresome yak, or put up with others' annoying habits. Or
> compromise on where to go and what to do. These advantages are hard to
> overcome.
>
> G.B.
>
>
Well put. No politics or one upsmanship but just a nice mellow get away
from it all. My only interruption is my wife calling when I am in cell
phone range to check up on me. Damn technology. Of course I had a
handset mobile in 1973 so I should talk. At least I got a real operator
to put the call through for me but it was about a dollar a minute in
1973 dollars. Sure impressed the young lady with me though.
Bill Baka

Bill Baka

May 23rd 05, 03:17 AM

Stephen Harding wrote:
> Michael Warner wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 22 May 2005 10:49:22 GMT, Stephen Harding wrote:
>>
>>> All duded up in their riding getup, cruising along at a very brisk
>>> pace, you rarely get a nod or "hi" as they pass you by in either
>>> direction relative to you. They seem to sometimes come with a sort
>>> of gang mentality. "Us" versus "them".
>>
>>
>> Unless you've ridden in a fast, tight group for an hour or more, you
>> might
>> not appreciate the constant effort and concentration required. It demands
>> that you pretty much ignore anything except the group and whatever
>> obstacles it encounters.
>
>
> Possibly so.
>
> I mostly ride alone. I've had pace lines form up behind me on
> the few organized rides I've done. I don't much care (I've heard
> some people get angry when someone drafts).

Having someone drafting you actually gives you a slight boost too, but
the flow dynamics are just way too much to go into. You are pushing air
too and some of that translates to less drag on the rider in front of
you, kind of a bow wave effect like Dolphins use when swimming along the
front of a boat full of humans. Symbiotic. It only works with competent
riders who are not going to break out and try to sprint and maybe crash
a bunch of people.
Bill Baka
Just don't hit me and
> don't expect me to point out road obstacles to people behind.
> Stay behind me all day if you want, just take care of yourself.
>
> Pace lines make me nervous, so I can see where they might demand
> someone's full attention to the point of "ignoring" what's going
> on around them (beyond the immediate pace line).
>
> Sort of eliminates one of the best parts of bicycling IMHO!
>
>
> SMH
>
>
> SMH
>

Bill Baka

May 23rd 05, 03:20 AM

Michael Warner wrote:
> On Sat, 21 May 2005 16:01:46 GMT, Neil Brooks wrote:
>
>
>>The roadies at the shop where I bought my bike "warned" me off of
>>mtb-style (double sided) pedals on a road bike because of what the
>>"real roadies" would surely say. They also told me what might happen
>>if I showed up on Saturday's club ride with a 3x chainring and
>>unshaved legs.
>
>
> Yeah, sure. I can just imagine what you said to solicit that comment,
> assuming it's true. I also used those SPD pedals, as do about 20% of the
> folks I ride with, and no-one has ever commented on it, including some
> hot-shot racers. Ditto shaved legs, triples (I had one on an earlier bike)
> etc.
>
I can only add one thing to this since I use MTB pedals and get off the
bike quite a lot to explore other things that can't be ridden. It keeps
me off the damned couch in front of the television, and that is the best
reason for me to ride, bar none.
Bill Baka

I also notice that when I am riding I may go 3 hours before I even know
I am hungry but at home the food is just around the corner.