Ken Papai
August 6th 03, 06:14 AM
"Kurgan Gringioni" > wrote in message >...
> "hold my beer and watch this..." > wrote in message
> ...
> > Marty Nothstein's Squat Poundage?
> >
> > Ullrich riding for USPS?
> >
> > I mean I know this place is filled with ****ing retards, but that ****
> takes
> > the cake
>
>
>
>
> Back in the early days of usenet one had to have at least some minimal
> amount of intelligence to access usenet (albeit of the nerdly variety) - the
> programs were character based (not event driven), there were no
> mice/trackballs, and most people were on UNIX or some variant.
>
>
> Nowadays, even the Dumbest, Fattest Masters rider can stumble across RBR by
> clicking their mouse a few times on the computer they bought at WalMart.
>
You are the true RBR God. I see you were first on the list voting
"yes" to the reorg.
--
From Tue May 19 16:44:06 1992
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:2363 news.groups:51242
rec.bicycles:55860
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.bicycles
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: (Les Earnest)
Subject: RFD: rec.bicycles reorganization
Message-ID: >
Followup-To: news.groups
Sender: (David C Lawrence)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: Tue, 19 May 1992 17:23:57 GMT
Approved:
Lines: 74
"The time has come, the walrus said, to speak of many things;
Of shoes and ships and sealing wax, of cabbages and kings."
With rec.bicycles traffic now in the range of 100-200 articles per day
and the peak of the cycling season ahead of us, an increasing number
of readers are abondoning the group because it is becoming
increasingly
difficult to follow the threads that interest them. As a partial
solution to this problem, Bruce Hildenbrand and I are conspiring to
initiate subdivision.
While this idea has been discussed a number of times in the past, it
has never been put to a vote. We plan to do that after a period of
discussion, which is to last a month. If we become convinced by that
time that an alternative scheme would be better, then a new proposal
will be put up for discussion. In accordance with Usenet guidelines,
the discussion of this proposal is to be conducted in news.groups, NOT
REC.BICYCLES.
The purpose behind the proposed subdivision is to enable readers with
limited time to focus their attention on certain aspects of the sport
and to skip other segments, either selectively when under time
pressure or in general. We believe that a small number of subtopics
should be chosen such that each one will have a substantial amount of
traffic and each will constitute a topic that some readers will be
more interested in than others.
We propose that rec.bicycles continue as a forum for discussing
general cycling topics and that additional unmoderated subgroups
be created as follows.
rec.bicycles General cycling topics.
rec.bicycles.conduct Laws, conduct and hazards affecting cycling.
rec.bicycles.tours Tours, routes and killer climbs.
rec.bicycles.racing Racing techniques, rules, organizations &
results.
rec.bicycles.tech Analysis, design, construction, maintenance &
repair
of bicycle components & related equipment.
rec.bicycles.products Available bikes, components & related
equipment.
Things for sale, sources, strengths and defects.
For those who will continue to follow all aspects of cycling,
subdivision will cause a small increase in effort, but modern
newsreaders make that effort negligible. By contrast, the time saving
for readers with narrower interests will be very large.
It is unfortunate that the existing newsgroup was not called
rec.bicycle because the singular form would better combine with
modifiers. While it is tempting to try to correct this historical
mistake, that would introduce a certain amount of confusion that
would probably not be adequately offset by the gain in clarity.
While the proposal above is certainly not the only possible way to
divide the topic, we spent several weeks examining alternative schemes
and arguing about them with each other and with friends before
settling on this scheme, which we believe is fairly understandable and
coherent.
As an alternative to the scheme proposed above, one might be tempted
to consider division along the lines of venue & bicycle types, such
as: road, track, BMX, and off-road. However, with that kind of
division, nearly all the traffic would appear in rec.bicycles.road,
which would not meet our objectives.
When it comes time to vote, each proposed subdivision must be voted on
separately and must get a 2/3 majority to pass, so it is possible that
some parts of the proposal could be adopted and other parts rejected.
We invite comments -- again, please post public statements on
news.groups, not rec.bicycles.
Les Earnest )
Bruce Hildenbrand )
--
Les Earnest Phone: 415 941-3984
Internet: USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les Los Altos Hills, CA
94022
From Wed Jun 3 09:42:48 1992
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:2392 news.groups:52034
rec.bicycles:56870
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.bicycles
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: (Les Earnest)
Subject: 2nd RFD: rec.bicycles reorganization
Message-ID: >
Followup-To: news.groups
Sender: (David C Lawrence)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1992 19:20:28 GMT
Approved:
Lines: 84
After Bruce Hildenbrand and I proposed a reorganization of
rec.bicycles a couple of weeks ago, we were pleased to hear from a
number of people who had dropped out because they were unable to deal
with the volume of postings but who plan to return if there is a
reasonable division of topics. In response to comments in news.groups
and received by email, we now offer a revised proposal and invite
further discussion until the end of June.
This notice will be repeated in rec.bicycles a couple of times during
June to ensure that it is seen by current readers, but the discussion
should take place only in news.groups. In accordance with Usenet
guidelines, we hope to issue a Call for Votes in early July, to be
completed by the end of that month. Voting will be conducting by
email in such a way that each reader may vote for or against each
subdivision or may vote for or against the whole proposal. Each
subdivision must get a 2/3 majority to pass, so it is possible that
some parts of the proposal could be adopted and other parts rejected.
The purpose behind the proposed subdivision is to enable readers with
limited time to focus their attention on certain aspects of the sport
and to skip other segments, either selectively when under time
pressure or in general. We believe that a small number of subtopics
should be chosen such that each one will have a substantial amount of
traffic and each will constitute a topic that some readers will be
more interested in than others.
In response to suggestions from readers, we propose to replace
rec.bicycles with a series of unmoderated groups beginning with
"rec.bicycle" (i.e. without the "s"). The following topics are
essentially unchanged from our earlier proposal, but different names
are used in some cases and the topic descriptions have been shortened
to one line each in a style similar to that used in general Usenet
listings.
rec.bicycle.consumer Things for sale, sources, strengths and
defects.
rec.bicycle.tech Engineering, construction, maintenance & repair.
rec.bicycle.rides Tours, routes and killer climbs.
rec.bicycle.soc Advocacy, laws, hazards and conduct.
rec.bicycle.racing Racing techniques, rules, organizations &
results.
rec.bicycle.misc Physiology, injuries and other cycling topics.
Note that rec.bicycle.consumer is not about bicycle cannibalism, but
is for discussion of cycling-related products and where to get them.
Also, readers are free to interpret the abbreviation "soc" as standing
for sociology, society, sociopaths, or Socratic according to taste.
Not socks, though -- that's a "consumer" item.
For your information, the articles in one recent sample of 200
rec.bicycle articles were found to fall in the above categories
as follows.
rec.bicycle: .consumer .tech .rides .soc .racing .misc
38% 30% 12% 8% 5% 7%
It is clearly not possible to devise a division that will please
everyone. Indeed, a number of subtopics have been proposed in the
news.groups discussion that represent distinct interest groups but
that have insufficient traffic to warrant separate groups. For
example, several people would like to have a group devoted to off-road
or mountain biking, but there are relatively few articles on that
topic. The same is true of other bicycle/venue topics such as track,
tandem, and HPV.
More important, topics such as mountain biking cut across all the
groups proposed above: .consumer, .tech, .rides, .soc, .racing, and
..misc. For those who would like to be able to easily identify
articles on such topics, we suggest that distinctive prefixes be used
in subject lines, such as "MTB:", "TRK:", "TDM:", and "HPV:".
While the scheme proposed above is certainly not the only possible way
to divide the cycling topic, we believe that it represents a workable
division. For those who will continue to follow all aspects of
cycling, subdivision will cause a small increase in effort, but modern
newsreaders make that effort negligible. By contrast, the time saved
by readers interested in more specific topics will be substantial.
We again invite comments. Please post to news.groups, not
rec.bicycles.
Les Earnest )
Bruce Hildenbrand )
--
Les Earnest Phone: 415 941-3984
Internet: USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les Los Altos Hills, CA
94022
From Fri Jun 19 13:23:45 1992
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:2429 news.groups:52910
rec.bicycles:58456
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.bicycles
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: (Les Earnest)
Subject: 3rd RFD: rec.bicycles reorganization
Message-ID: >
Followup-To: news.groups
Sender: (David C Lawrence)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1992 04:07:23 GMT
Approved:
Lines: 75
This is a restatement of our proposed reorganization of rec.bicycles
into six newsgroups, which is unchanged since we last posted it. We
had earlier planned on a fairly long discussion period in news.groups
but have been informed that the public discussion should not extend
beyond 30 days, so we plan to end it on June 18. In accordance with
Usenet guidelines, we plan to issue a Call for Votes shortly
thereafter.
Voting will be conducting by email in such a way that each reader may
vote for or against each subdivision or may vote for or against the
whole proposal. Each subdivision must get a 2/3 majority to pass and
those who vote "yes" must outnumber those who vote "no" by at least
100, so it is possible that some parts of the proposal could be
adopted and other parts rejected.
The purpose behind the proposed subdivision is to enable readers with
limited time to focus their attention on certain aspects of the sport
and to skip other segments, either selectively when under time
pressure or in general. We believe that a small number of subtopics
should be chosen such that each one will have a substantial amount of
traffic and each will constitute a topic that some readers will be
more interested in than others.
We propose to replace rec.bicycles with a series of unmoderated groups
beginning with "rec.bicycle" (i.e. without the "s").
rec.bicycle.consumer Things for sale, sources, strengths and
defects.
rec.bicycle.tech Engineering, construction, maintenance & repair.
rec.bicycle.rides Tours, routes and killer climbs.
rec.bicycle.soc Advocacy, laws, hazards and conduct.
rec.bicycle.racing Racing techniques, rules, organizations &
results.
rec.bicycle.misc Physiology, injuries and other cycling topics.
Note that rec.bicycle.consumer is not about bicycle cannibalism, but
is for discussion of cycling-related products and where to get them.
Also, readers are free to interpret the abbreviation "soc" as standing
for sociology, society, sociopaths, or Socratic according to taste.
Not socks, though -- that's a "consumer" item.
For your information, the articles in one recent sample of 200
rec.bicycle articles were found to fall in the above categories
as follows.
rec.bicycle: .consumer .tech .rides .soc .racing .misc
38% 30% 12% 8% 5% 7%
It is clearly not possible to devise a division that will please
everyone. Indeed, a number of subtopics have been proposed in the
news.groups discussion that represent distinct interest groups but
that have insufficient traffic to warrant separate groups. For
example, several people would like to have a group devoted to off-road
or mountain biking, but there are relatively few articles on that
topic. The same is true of other bicycle/venue topics such as track,
tandem, and HPV.
More important, topics such as mountain biking cut across all the
groups proposed above: .consumer, .tech, .rides, .soc, .racing, and
..misc. For those who would like to be able to easily identify
articles on such topics, we suggest that distinctive prefixes be used
in subject lines, such as "MTB:", "TRK:", "TDM:", and "HPV:".
While the scheme proposed above is certainly not the only possible way
to divide the cycling topic, we believe that it represents a workable
division. For those who will continue to follow all aspects of
cycling, subdivision will cause a small increase in effort, but modern
newsreaders make that effort negligible. By contrast, the time saved
by readers interested in more specific topics will be substantial.
We again invite comments. Please post to news.groups, not
rec.bicycles.
Les Earnest )
Bruce Hildenbrand )
--
Les Earnest Phone: 415 941-3984
Internet: USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les Los Altos Hills, CA
94022
From Mon Jul 6 17:40:47 1992
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:2492 news.groups:53741
rec.bicycles:59935
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.bicycles
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: (Les Earnest)
Subject: 4th RFD: rec.bicycles reorganization
Message-ID: >
Followup-To: news.groups
Sender: (David C Lawrence)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1992 18:15:25 GMT
Approved:
Lines: 134
Here is still another Request for Discussion of still another proposal
for reorganization of rec.bicycles. We thought that we were done with
this earlier, but on June 19 when we (Bruce Hildenbrand and I)
dispatched a Call for Votes after a 30 day discussion, we discover
that
it was not to be.
In accordance with Usenet guidelines, the CFV was sent to
rec.bicycles, news.groups, and news.announce.newgroups. The moderator
of news.announce.newgroups (David C Lawrence a.k.a. ),
who had apparently been busy during the discussion period, declined to
release the CFV. Instead he requested three changes in our proposal:
(1) change the name of r.b.consumer to r.b.marketplace on the grounds
that the latter term is already in use in several other
newsgroups;
(2) provide more complete charters for the proposed newsgroups
describing
what is (and is not) included in each;
(3) leave the prefix as "rec.bicycles" instead of adopting the
singular
form.
We acceded on the first point, even though "marketplace" is awkwardly
long ("market" would have done nicely), in the interest of
compatibility. That change is incorporated in our revised proposal
below.
We also drafted longer proposal charters, which are also included
below.
We have so far not agreed on the last point -- a summary of the
discussion appears at the end of this article.
Unfortunately, by the time these issues were raised I (Les) was
scrambling to complete the draft USCF legislative agenda for the the
Legislation Committee meeting and could not devote further efforts
on documentation until now. Here is our revised proposal.
rec.bicycle.marketplace: Bicycles, components, ancillary equipment and
services wanted or for sale, reviews of such things, places to buy
them, and evaluations of these sources. Not for discussion of general
engineering, maintenance, or repair -- see rec.bicycle.tech.
rec.bicycle.tech: Techniques of engineering, construction, maintenance
and repair of bicycles and ancillary equipment. Not for products or
services offered or wanted -- see rec.bicycle.marketplace.
rec.bicycle.rides: Discussions of tours and training or commuting
routes.
Not for disussion of general riding techniques -- see
rec.bicycle.misc.
rec.bicycle.soc: Cycling transportation advocacy, laws, and social
issues, conduct of riders and drivers; road hazards such as potholes,
dogs, and sociopaths.
rec.bicycle.racing: Race results, racing techniques, rules, and
organizations. Not racing equipment -- see rec.bicycle.marketplace or
rec.bicycle.tech.
rec.bicycle.misc: General riding techniques, rider physiology,
injuries and treatment, diets, and other cycling topics.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Singular or Plural?
Here is a summary of the arguments from David Lawrence and me on
whether
the new groups should begin with "rec.bicycle" or "rec.bicycles."
Lawrence said:
> [. . .] you will get better propagation with less hassles all
> around if you stay with rec.bicycles. 44 UUCP feeds at UUNET alone
> would automatically get new rec.bicycles groups because they get fed
> rec.bicycles explicitly while not taking rec in general.
> Extrapolating this to the estimated size of the net, there would be
> several thousand sites which would not get the group creation messages
> for the groups, nor (automatically) the subsequent traffic. This at
> its best hinders transitioning of the groups and at its worst leaves
> interested people without the appropriate bicycling discussion on
> USENET.
I responded:
.. It would look rather silly to have groups called rec.bicycles.rides
.. and rec.bicycles.racing. Not disasterously silly, but silly enough
.. that it doesn't seem worthwhile trying to avoid the transient
.. inconvenience of changing the hierarchy.
David again:
> I very strongly believe that changing it to rec.bicycle is a
> needless mistake for the sake of some poorly defined aesthete.
> rec.motorcycles, rec.autos and other groups haven't needed to do it to
> make their second and third group name components sound like some
> doublet from a sentence, so why does rec.bicycles? You are just
> making it more difficult for interested people to get announcements of
> the creation of the new groups and to begin receiving traffic they
> have already presumably indicated they have an interest in receiving.
> I very much urge you to run this poll with "rec.bicycles" as the
> hierarchy name.
.. Perhaps I do not fully appreciate the enormity of the task of adding
.. newsgroups. I would expect most sites that handle recreational
.. newsgroups would accept rec.* and that there would be nothing for
them
.. to do to accomodate the proposed change. It is my impression that
.. adminstrators at more selective sites would have to add one line in
.. some text file and would later delete the rec.bicycles entry. Am I
.. missing something?
> Just perhaps how much of an inconvenience this really is compared to
> the automatic way. Also note that many of these administrators aren't
> necessarily interested in the bicycles group per se and it would take
> the action of the interested users, in addition to that of two different
> news admins, to make the switch effectively happen for that site.
.. It looks to me as though you are saying that because the plural name
.. was adopted the last time the names were changed and because the
.. motorcycle and auto bunch have made the same mistake that we should
.. learn to live with it. I don't buy it.
> Suppose someone asked me, "What's rec.bicycles.racing about?" "It's
> about bicycles racing," and, "It's about racing bicycles," both make
> adequate, and grammatically correct, sense. There are dozens of
> examples to show that both element swapping and complete disregard for
> how the elements sound as a sentence fragment are a pretty ingrained
> part of USENET group names.
.. The issue is your concern about propagation and my belief that this
is
.. a bogus issue. So what if there may be several thousand sites where
.. an administrator would have to edit one line in a text file in order
.. to receive the proposed newsgroups? If some of them drop out, that
is
.. OK -- the bicycle topic has too many contributors already and those
.. who want to remain connected will make it happen. Sensible names
take
.. precedence over that issue in my view.
There it stands. We again invite comments. Please post followups to
news.groups, not rec.bicycles.
Les Earnest )
Bruce Hildenbrand )
--
Les Earnest Phone: 415 941-3984
Internet: USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les Los Altos Hills, CA
94022
From Tue Jul 21 17:08:27 1992
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:2555 news.groups:54515
rec.bicycles:61545
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.bicycles
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: (Les Earnest)
Subject: CFV: rec.bicycles reorganization
Message-ID: >
Followup-To: poster
Sender: (David C Lawrence)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:26:07 GMT
Approved:
Lines: 94
This is a call for votes on a proposal to create up to five new
unmoderated newsgroups and to rename a sixth as follows:
rec.bicycles.marketplace: Bicycles, components, ancillary equipment
and
services wanted or for sale, reviews of such things, places to buy
them, and evaluations of these sources. Not for discussion of general
engineering, maintenance, or repair -- see rec.bicycles.tech.
rec.bicycles.tech: Techniques of engineering, construction,
maintenance
and repair of bicycles and ancillary equipment. Not for products or
services offered or wanted -- see rec.bicycles.marketplace.
rec.bicycles.rides: Discussions of tours and training or commuting
routes.
Not for disussion of general riding techniques -- see
rec.bicycles.misc.
rec.bicycles.soc: Social issues, cycling transportation advocacy,
laws,
conduct of riders and drivers; road hazards such as potholes, dogs,
and
sociopaths.
rec.bicycles.racing: Race results, racing techniques, rules, and
organizations. Not racing equipment -- see rec.bicycles.marketplace
or rec.bicycles.tech.
It is further proposed that the existing rec.bicycles be renamed and
redefined as follows.
rec.bicycle.misc: General riding techniques, rider physiology,
injuries and treatment, diets, and other cycling topics.
The voting period will be through August 11. This notice will be
reposted two more times in this period as a reminder. You may vote
either for or against the creation of each of the above newgroups
individually or the entire proposal. To vote for or against the
entire proposal send email to (respectively):
or
The message text must be explicit; for these two cases it should be of
the form "I vote in favor of the entire rec.bicycles reorganization as
proposed" or "I vote against the entire rec.bicycles reorganization
as proposed". The wording doesn't have to be exact, it just needs to
be unambiguous. In particular, statements of the form "I would vote
for this if..." will be considered to be comments only and will not be
counted as votes.
Alternatively, to vote for or against individual newsgroups, send
email to with the message showing individual
"yes" or "no" votes for any or all of the following.
Vote
rec.bicycles.marketplace
rec.bicycles.tech
rec.bicycles.rides
rec.bicycles.soc
rec.bicycles.racing
rec.bicycles.misc
Only votes emailed to one of the above three addresses will count.
Votes posted to the net for any reason, including inability to get
mail to the vote-taker, and proxy votes, such as having a mailing list
maintainer claim a vote for each member of the list, will not be
counted.
Each person should vote just once either for or against the entire
proposal or for or against individual groups and should not use more
than one computer account in doing so. If you vote both for and
against the same newsgroup your vote will not be counted for that
group.
Results
Shortly after the completion of the voting period, the vote tally and
the E-mail addresses and (if available) names of the voters will be
posted on rec.bicycles, news.announce.newgroups, and news.groups. The
tally will include a detailed listing of how each person voted so that
the results can be verified.
After the voting results appear there will be a 5 day waiting period
during which readers will have a chance to correct any errors in the
voting lists or the voting procedure.
In accordance with Usenet guidelines, after the waiting period, and if
there are no serious objections that might invalidate the vote, and
if 100 more valid YES/create votes are received for a given proposed
newsgroup than NO/don't create AND at least 2/3 of the total number of
valid votes received are in favor of creation, those groups that pass
will be created. If the 100 vote margin or 2/3 majority is not met
for any given group it not be created.
Les Earnest )
Bruce Hildenbrand )
--
Les Earnest Phone: 415 941-3984
Internet: USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les Los Altos Hills, CA
94022
From Tue Jul 28 17:19:25 1992
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:2572 news.groups:54755
rec.bicycles:62398
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.bicycles
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: (Les Earnest)
Subject: 2nd CFV: rec.bicycles reorganization
Message-ID: >
Followup-To: poster
Sender: (David C Lawrence)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 20:25:02 GMT
Approved:
Lines: 97
[This is a repeat posting for those who did not see the original
a week ago, with one typo repaired.]
This is a call for votes on a proposal to create up to five new
unmoderated groups and to rename a sixth as follows:
rec.bicycles.marketplace: Bicycles, components, ancillary equipment
and
services wanted or for sale, reviews of such things, places to buy
them, and evaluations of these sources. Not for discussion of general
engineering, maintenance, or repair -- see rec.bicycles.tech.
rec.bicycles.tech: Techniques of engineering, construction,
maintenance
and repair of bicycles and ancillary equipment. Not for products or
services offered or wanted -- see rec.bicycles.marketplace.
rec.bicycles.rides: Discussions of tours and training or commuting
routes.
Not for disussion of general riding techniques -- see
rec.bicycles.misc.
rec.bicycles.soc: Social issues, cycling transportation advocacy,
laws,
conduct of riders and drivers; road hazards such as potholes, dogs,
and
sociopaths.
rec.bicycles.racing: Race results, racing techniques, rules, and
organizations. Not racing equipment -- see rec.bicycles.marketplace
or rec.bicycles.tech.
It is further proposed that the existing rec.bicycles be renamed and
redefined as follows.
rec.bicycles.misc: General riding techniques, rider physiology,
injuries and treatment, diets, and other cycling topics.
The voting period will be through August 11. This notice will be
reposted two more times in this period as a reminder. You may vote
either for or against the creation of each of the above newgroups
individually or the entire proposal. To vote for or against the
entire proposal send email to (respectively):
or
The message text must be explicit; for these two cases it should be of
the form "I vote in favor of the entire rec.bicycles reorganization as
proposed" or "I vote against the entire rec.bicycles reorganization
as proposed". The wording doesn't have to be exact, it just needs to
be unambiguous. In particular, statements of the form "I would vote
for this if..." will be considered to be comments only and will not be
counted as votes.
Alternatively, to vote for or against individual newsgroups, send
email to with the message showing individual
"yes" or "no" votes for any or all of the following.
Vote
rec.bicycles.marketplace
rec.bicycles.tech
rec.bicycles.rides
rec.bicycles.soc
rec.bicycles.racing
rec.bicycles.misc
Only votes emailed to one of the above three addresses will count.
Votes posted to the net for any reason, including inability to get
mail to the vote-taker, and proxy votes, such as having a mailing list
maintainer claim a vote for each member of the list, will not be
counted.
Each person should vote just once either for or against the entire
proposal or for or against individual groups and should not use more
than one computer account in doing so. If you vote both for and
against the same newsgroup your vote will not be counted for that
group.
Results
Shortly after the completion of the voting period, the vote tally and
the E-mail addresses and (if available) names of the voters will be
posted on rec.bicycles, news.announce.newgroups, and news.groups. The
tally will include a detailed listing of how each person voted so that
the results can be verified.
After the voting results appear there will be a 5 day waiting period
during which readers will have a chance to correct any errors in the
voting lists or the voting procedure.
In accordance with Usenet guidelines, after the waiting period, and if
there are no serious objections that might invalidate the vote, and
if 100 more valid YES/create votes are received for a given proposed
newsgroup than NO/don't create AND at least 2/3 of the total number of
valid votes received are in favor of creation, those groups that pass
will be created. If the 100 vote margin or 2/3 majority is not met
for any given group it not be created.
Les Earnest )
Bruce Hildenbrand )
--
Les Earnest Phone: 415 941-3984
Internet: USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les Los Altos Hills, CA
94022
From Tue Aug 4 16:11:24 1992
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:2593 news.groups:54980
rec.bicycles:63160
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.bicycles
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: (Les Earnest)
Subject: 3rd CFV: rec.bicycles reorganization
Message-ID: >
Followup-To: poster
Sender: (David C Lawrence)
Reply-To:
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1992 18:39:05 GMT
Approved:
Lines: 97
[Reposting for any why may not have seen earlier notices.
Polls close August 11.]
This is a call for votes on a proposal to create up to five new
unmoderated groups and to rename a sixth as follows:
rec.bicycles.marketplace: Bicycles, components, ancillary equipment
and
services wanted or for sale, reviews of such things, places to buy
them, and evaluations of these sources. Not for discussion of general
engineering, maintenance, or repair -- see rec.bicycles.tech.
rec.bicycles.tech: Techniques of engineering, construction,
maintenance
and repair of bicycles and ancillary equipment. Not for products or
services offered or wanted -- see rec.bicycles.marketplace.
rec.bicycles.rides: Discussions of tours and training or commuting
routes.
Not for disussion of general riding techniques -- see
rec.bicycles.misc.
rec.bicycles.soc: Social issues, cycling transportation advocacy,
laws,
conduct of riders and drivers; road hazards such as potholes, dogs,
and
sociopaths.
rec.bicycles.racing: Race results, racing techniques, rules, and
organizations. Not racing equipment -- see rec.bicycles.marketplace
or rec.bicycles.tech.
It is further proposed that the existing rec.bicycles be renamed and
redefined as follows.
rec.bicycles.misc: General riding techniques, rider physiology,
injuries and treatment, diets, and other cycling topics.
The voting period will be through August 11. This notice will be
reposted two more times in this period as a reminder. You may vote
either for or against the creation of each of the above newgroups
individually or the entire proposal. To vote for or against the
entire proposal send email to (respectively):
or
The message text must be explicit; for these two cases it should be of
the form "I vote in favor of the entire rec.bicycles reorganization as
proposed" or "I vote against the entire rec.bicycles reorganization
as proposed". The wording doesn't have to be exact, it just needs to
be unambiguous. In particular, statements of the form "I would vote
for this if..." will be considered to be comments only and will not be
counted as votes.
Alternatively, to vote for or against individual newsgroups, send
email to with the message showing individual
"yes" or "no" votes for any or all of the following.
Vote
rec.bicycles.marketplace
rec.bicycles.tech
rec.bicycles.rides
rec.bicycles.soc
rec.bicycles.racing
rec.bicycles.misc
Only votes emailed to one of the above three addresses will count.
Votes posted to the net for any reason, including inability to get
mail to the vote-taker, and proxy votes, such as having a mailing list
maintainer claim a vote for each member of the list, will not be
counted.
Each person should vote just once either for or against the entire
proposal or for or against individual groups and should not use more
than one computer account in doing so. If you vote both for and
against the same newsgroup your vote will not be counted for that
group.
Results
Shortly after the completion of the voting period, the vote tally and
the E-mail addresses and (if available) names of the voters will be
posted on rec.bicycles, news.announce.newgroups, and news.groups. The
tally will include a detailed listing of how each person voted so that
the results can be verified.
After the voting results appear there will be a 5 day waiting period
during which readers will have a chance to correct any errors in the
voting lists or the voting procedure.
In accordance with Usenet guidelines, after the waiting period, and if
there are no serious objections that might invalidate the vote, and
if 100 more valid YES/create votes are received for a given proposed
newsgroup than NO/don't create AND at least 2/3 of the total number of
valid votes received are in favor of creation, those groups that pass
will be created. If the 100 vote margin or 2/3 majority is not met
for any given group it not be created.
Les Earnest )
Bruce Hildenbrand )
--
Les Earnest Phone: 415 941-3984
Internet: USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les Los Altos Hills, CA
94022
From Thu Aug 13 00:59:50 1992
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:2625 news.groups:55423
rec.bicycles:64137
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.bicycles
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: (Les Earnest)
Subject: RESULT: rec.bicycles reorganization passes
Message-ID: >
Followup-To: news.groups
Sender: (David C Lawrence)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 04:42:51 GMT
Approved:
Lines: 574
All of the six new unmoderated newsgroups proposed to replace
rec.bicycles were approved by margins of at least 403 to 124, which
amply meets the established criteria. I have not bothered to count
the votes separately for each newsgroup because the approval rate was
so high for the entire proposal. Thus, the new newsgroups are to be:
rec.bicycles.marketplace
rec.bicycles.tech
rec.bicycles.rides
rec.bicycles.soc
rec.bicycles.racing
rec.bicycles.misc
The basis of the numeric results given above is as follows.
Votes were collected in three mailboxes, with the following results:
403 all-yes (those voting in favor of all six proposals),
80 all-no (those voting against all six proposals), and
44 mixed (those voting for or against individual proposals).
Thus if we treat the "mixed" votes as being "all-no," the margin of
approval for all newsgroups is at least 403 to 124. (In fact, a
number of the "mixed" votes are mixtures of "yes" and "abstain" with
no "no" votes, so the margins of approval are actually higher than the
numbers given.)
Lists of voter IDs for each of the three categories of votes are
attached for verification. Following the posting of this notice,
there is a 5 day review period during which any detected errors in the
voting can be repaired. After that, it's too late.
I'll deal with any complaints that appear by Thursday, 8/14, but on
Friday I start my annual ride down the California coast to San Diego,
followed by some surfing there. My esteemed co-consprator, Bruce
Hildenbrand ), will handle any later
grumbles.
The following persons voted "all yes":
Fattie_master_misogynst_trustfund_******@henrychan g.com
Alan Chapman >
Alan Cheville >
Alan Craig >
(Alec Sharp - x2955)
Alene Heuser >
Alex Lopez-Ortiz >
(Andre Giroux - SSS Sun Montreal)
"Andrew J. Hellebust" >
Andrew Merritt >
"Andrew P. White" >
BERLINER MARTIN >
Barbara Schelkle >
Ben Wildasin >
Bill Hunt >
(Bill Michel)
Bjorn Knutsson >
"Bob Bayn, mgr. Academic Services, Computer Center" >
Bob Newman - x5625 22-Jul-1992 1300 >
(Bruce Hildenbrand)
"Bryan Jones" >
(Burton A. Hipp)
Butch Weaver >
Cameron Spitzer 764-6339 >
Carole Schaefer >
"Cary G. Gray" >
Chris Hughes >
Chris Lipson >
Chris Mullendore >
Christian Zimmermann >
Colin Gerety >
DAVID WITTENBERG DTN 226 5276 >
DERRICK ERNEST BOUCHER >
(Dan Pritchett - SunSoft Engineer)
Daniel Edward Lovinger >
Darin McGrew >
Dave Bumgardner >
Dave Disser >
David Cook >
David Foster >
David Hood >
David Owen >
(David Bassett)
(Dave Callender)
Dick King >
Don Seto >
Donald George Baker >
(Doug Landauer)
(Doug Wiebe)
Douglas R. Brooks >
"Dr Jeff Hoyle" >
"Eric P. Ingersoll" >
Eric Prestemon >
Erik Lettang >
Erik Ruf >
"F.J. Brown" >
Fran Corrado >
Frank Robasky >
Frank Steele >
"GEOFF SELIG - CONCORDIA U. COMPUTING SERVICES"
(GORDON L. POWELL, JR.)
Garth >
Gary Turner >
Gary Walsh >
(Gene Kim [Summer Intern])
Geoffrey N Tuck >
Gerard Ventura >
(Glenn C. Skinner)
Greg Letendre >
Gregory Snead >
(Hal Tozer)
Harry Phinney >
Helge Hauglin >
Helmut Roesner >
(Howard Chartock)
Hugh Chipman >
Ian Lundy >
Jack Dean 283-4008 >
Jack >
"James C. Bohem" >
Jay Gerstenschlager >
"Jeffrey A. Reel" >
Jemery Day >
Jim Ault >
Jim Brewer >
Joe Clark >
Joel Rem >
John Ciccarelli >
John Keenan >
John Richards >
John Schmitz >
Jonathan Delatizky >
Joshua_Putnam >
"KATE WILSON, "
Karen des Jardins >
Kathryn Henniss >
(Katherine Rogers, MIS Dept)
Ken Keating >
Kenneth James Clark >
Kent Fielden ~ >
Kevin Junck >
Larry Chapman >
Lee Butler >
Les Earnest >
Lou Salz >
Lutz Donnerhacke >
"Mandel, Jeff E" >
"Mark B. Abbott" >
Mark Dobie >
Mark Flanagan >
Martin Boening >
Michael Chuang :chuang@micro>
Michael DeLanzo >
"Michael G. Xakellis" >
Michael McCarthy >
Mike Bonham >
Mike Lamenza >
Mike Shebanek >
(Michael Federwisch)
Milquetoast >
Mr. Hamid Mir >
Nathan Edwards >
Nick Haines >
Otto-Ville Ronkainen >
" >
"Patrick LEROY (Bull Worldwide Information Systems)"
>
Paul Norris >
Paul Taira >
Peter Carleson >
Peter Stevens >
Peter Tapscott >
Philip C Kizer >
Philip Johnson >
Philip Kizer >
Quinn >
ROBINSON MARYBETH >
Ralph Bean >
Rheal (R.J.) Nadeau >
Richard C. Sewill >
Richard Elling >
Richard Mlynarik >
Richard Taylor >
Rick Kint >
Rob Locher >
Robyn Stewart >
Russell Palmer >
"Ruth L. Stornetta" >
(Steve Robbins)
Sandor Fekete >
Satyabodhi >
Schwing!!! >
Scott Crowder >
Scott Seligman >
Scott Truesdell >
Sheldon Smith >
(Sheri Mar)
Simon Spacey >
"Stephen (S.D.) Keppel-Jones" >
Stephen Tu >
Tak >
Ted Rodriguez-Bell >
Thomas Brettinger >
Tim Rigg >
(Tim Cespedes)
Tom Reingold >
Tom von Alten >
(Torsten Lif)
Vague clouds of electrons tunneling through computer circuits and
bouncing off of satellites. 22-Jul-1992 0911
>
Walt Howard >
Werner Saurer >
"William J. Bencze" >
"Wright Paul" >
Yggy King >
(Arik Anderson)
(Randall Atkinson)
(Thomas M. Bamburg)
(Brent Chivers)
(Gardner Cohen)
(Ertugrul Berkcan)
(bob geer)
(Bruce Cohen)
(Alan Bleier)
(David Bliss)
(Bruce Blodgett)
(Bob Holloway)
(James A. Brister)
(Bruce Hafford)
(Brian Badenoch)
(Bob Wilson)
(Bruce Curtis)
(Chip Olson)
(CG Sheng)
(Srijayanth Chakrapani)
(Chuck Hickey [CONTRACTOR])
(Joe Cline)
(Clark Hobbie-x7513)
(Andrei Cogan)
(Mike Coleman)
(Felix Finch)
(Joern Yngve
Dahl-Stamnes))
(Darrell R. Davis)
(Nils Davis)
(Debra A. Callahan)
(David Stone)
(Dan J. Connelly)
(Hans-Juergen Faerber)
(Craig Artley)
> (mike)
(David Van Beveren)
(Dwight Leu [CONTRACTOR])
(Edward Reid)
(Patrick Eggers)
(-s92046883-e.henry-ele-60-)
(Brian Elliott)
(Emanuel Alongi)
(Eric Ng)
(Eric D. Engstrom)
(Eugene N. Miya)
(Ronnie Falcao)
(Theresa McFarland)
(H.W. Fogg)
(Harry Ford)
(Francis Ouellette)
(Gerald Bacher)
(Gordon Fitch)
(Jonathan Gifford)
(George Irwin)
gregory adkins >
(Greg Franks)
(Greg Strain)
(John McCluer)
(Candace O'Connor)
(Ian Phillipps)
(Ira Idelson)
(Ivan Jensen)
"j.a. fielden" >
(Jaime Villacorte)
(Jeff Holcomb)
"jeffrey s sweeney" >
(Jeff Houston (Yo Eddy))
(Jeff Wallace)
(Jerry Stratton)
(John Hood)
(Jill Murray)
(Jin Kim)
(Joe Staudt)
(John Chapman)
(John Kalucki)
(John Black)
(james scott)
(John Unger)
(James Vorosmarti)
(James Durkin)
(Jeffrey Weiss)
(JOAN WINN )
(John Locke)
(Kameran Kashani)
(Karl Best)
keith raterink 283-4133 >
(Kelvin Don Nilsen)
(Ken Lehner)
(Kevin Osinski)
(Robert B. King)
(Ken Lee)
(Kevin Doherty)
(Kurt F. Sauer)
(John J. Ladasky II)
(Michael Lampi)
(Ron Larson)
(Larry Bright)
(Thomas Lucas)
(Mitch Sako)
(Steve Lusky)
(Mark A. Matthews)
(Marc Burckin)
(Marc San Soucie)
(Mark D. Aagaard)
(Mike Mccallum)
(Ken McGlothlen)
(Pat McKiernan)
(Douglas B. Meade)
memyam!aeggers (Andrea Eggers)
(Michael Kronstadt)
(Doug Mink)
(Mike Johnston)
(Scott Nicol)
(Timothy B. Moore)
(Nelson Minar)
(Stephen Bashore)
(Phil Earnhardt-x8236)
pat >
(Paul Kapustka)
(Peter Dombrowski)
(Pierre Flener)
(Victoria Brannaman)
(Na Choon Piaw)
(Pablo A. Iglesias)
(Peter A. Vogel)
(Rick Ball)
(Robert Campbell)
(Raymond Cheng)
(Robert Dale)
(Eric Reiher)
(Richard McAllister)
(Bob Watkins)
(Richard Korry)
(Robert Lewis)
(David F. Robinson)
(Gary Robishaw x5960)
(Anthony Rossini)
(Bob Schetgen)
(ruman)
(Robert Virzi at GTE Labs)
(Rich Wilson)
(Michael Sclafani)
(Sean Graves)
(Stefan Eggers)
(Seizo Sakurai)
(Steve Sergeant)
(Subash Shankar)
(Shawn Allen)
(Steve Kromer)
(Stephen Spencer)
(Steve Gilbert)
(Steve Williams)
(Rich Sutton)
(Sascha Wildner)
(Thomas E. Anderson)
(Thomas Driemeyer)
(Tim Sullivan)
(/usr/spool/mail/tomc)
(Tom Nelson)
(Hy Tran)
(Tim Smith)
(Ted "Theodore" W. Leung)
(Tyler R. Holcomb)
(Ying-jie Chen)
(Daniel R. Upper)
"vincent peter hradil" >
(Vu Nguyen)
(Dave Weaver)
(Raymond Willemann)
(Daniel W. Woycke)
(Michael Yamasaki)
(Lawrence You)
The following persons voted "all no":
Alex Miller >
"B. Baggins, at your service." >
"Carlos Martin" >
Christ Ward >
Dennis Allard (310-399-4740) >
Eric House >
Eugene Taskovich >
(Greg Dykema)
Hubertus Hohl >
"James T. &" >
Jeff Orum >
John G Dobnick >
John T. Rasper >
Keith Erskine >
"Kevin Bailey" >
"Klaus P. Schmidt" >
Marc Moorcroft >
Matthew Conroy >
Michele Faison >
Mike Ossesia >
Mike Vermeulen >
"Ohlwiler Scott" >
Paul Sears (Sys Admin) >
Polly Siegel >
"RA Novy" >
Randal Kornelsen >
Richard Langston >
Richard Stern >
Rob Huehn >
"Ronald Pruitt" >
Sven Heinicke >
T J Harris >
Tim Bradshaw >
"Todd E. Peterson" >
Tony (T.G.) Tello >
William Carroll >
(Charles Tryon)
(Bob Janssens)
(Chuck Anderson)
(David Casseres)
(Carl Rigney)
(Mark Chandler)
(Vladimir Zhelezniakov)
(Darran Edward Edmundson)
(Don Hermes)
(Ronald V. Dziuk Jr.)
(BJ Hargrave)
(Bruce E. Hoppe)
(John McCombs)
(John J. Allison)
(Ely Kahwaty)
(Kim DeVaughn)
(Brian Kenney)
(Eric Marshall)
(Allan Maxwell)
(Mike Thomas)
(Michael Ferro)
(Matthias Kessler)
(Michael B. Prime)
(Patrick Thompson)
(Robert O'Brien)
(Otto Heuer #3)
(Mike Palmer)
(Pamela Blalock)
(Don Parks)
(Robert W. Randall)
(Alessandro Rubini 26062)
(Dave V. Schaller)
scott cryan 283-4109 >
(Shawn Furgason)
(Sam Henry)
(Kris Knien)
(Ted Koppel)
(Mike Mitten)
The following persons voted "mixed":
Chris Goedde >
Colin Lacy >
Curt Vaughan >
David Cortesi >
David Miles >
Greg Schwendinger - IDC >
J Lee Jaap >
Lance Johnson >
Matthias Urlichs >
Michael Mott >
Naruhisa Takashima >
Paul J. Schinder >
Richard Mlynarik >
"Sam Hill Cabal, DS" >
"Shamim Zvonko Mohamed" >
Wayne Iba >
(Joe Keane)
(Bill Bushnell)
(Catherine Anne Foulston)
(Unix Guru-in-Training)
(Gregory G. Woodbury)
(Girard Chandler)
(Ilana Stern)
(John Hawkinson)
(John Young)
(Chuck Karish)
(Kent Long)
(Peter Clitherow)
(Joel Plutchak)
(Robert Cordray)
(Richard H. Miller)
(Jesper Lauridsen)
(R M Price)
(Andrew Shapira)
(Thomas Arneberg)
(Jeffrey Ehlinger)
(SHANDS,TIMOTHY G)
(William Burley)
(Windflower Gilbert)
Les Earnest )
Bruce Hildenbrand )
--
Les Earnest Phone: 415 941-3984
Internet: USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les Los Altos Hills, CA
94022
>
> OTOH, we now also have people like heather posting her fave porn links, so
> maybe it's an allright tradeoff.
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