Batteryless bicycle (bike) lights--New kind dynamo

[[email protected]]

Hi

This unique bicycle safety light is based on a newly invented
electrical generating system.

No friction on any parts of the bicycle. No battery needed. The lights
flash regardless the bicycle's speed and weather conditions. Standby
lights if you required.

More details on my website:
http://www.freelights.co.uk

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

I submit that on or about 5 Jun 2005 05:53:23 -0700, the person known
to the court as made a statement
om> in Your
Honour's bundle) to the following effect:

>This unique bicycle safety light is based on a newly invented
>electrical generating system.

Call that a generating system? *This* is a generating system:
http://www.nabendynamo.de/ - what you have is a toy.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

[Mike Causer]

On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 13:56:11 +0100, Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

> what you have is a toy.

True. To sell for 7 quid those LEDs must be pretty low-spec. But with
decent LEDs the drag would still be very low and it would be an
improvement for the many people who currently ride with no lights at all
(and reflectors pointing at the sky or the ground).


Mike

[[email protected]]

Nice background picture. Unfortunately, hard to read black text on
dark background. I was able to use Cntl-A to select the text which
allowed me to read it.

Looks like a standard speedometer magnet on the spokes. Could 3
additional magnets be added to quadruple the flash rate?

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

At Sun, 05 Jun 2005 14:26:25 +0100, message
om.invalid> was
posted by Mike Causer >, including
some, all or none of the following:

>To sell for 7 quid those LEDs must be pretty low-spec. But with
>decent LEDs the drag would still be very low and it would be an
>improvement for the many people who currently ride with no lights at all
>(and reflectors pointing at the sky or the ground).

Maybe, maybe not. I like a meaningful amount of light, and that
requires at least a Nexus hub dynamo.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

[numbnutz]

You're going to pay $300 for a hub generator, and have a custom wheel
built, so you can flash a few LEDs? It's a bit like swatting a fly
with a sledgehammer.

The hub generator is intended to power a relatively low powered
headlight of the sort that is intended to allow motorist to see you,
not to light your way in the dark. The same power could be put out by
a couple batteries, but then it would only cost $15 or so and wouldn't
require custom wheel building.

The "toy" is an excellent minimalist solution to provide some active
safety lighting. Modern LEDs provide a VERY useable amount of light
with very little energy input.

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

At Mon, 06 Jun 2005 17:14:34 -0500, message
> was posted by numbnutz
<numbnutz>, including some, all or none of the following:

>You're going to pay $300 for a hub generator, and have a custom wheel
>built, so you can flash a few LEDs? It's a bit like swatting a fly
>with a sledgehammer.

Hell no! I'm going to power some lights which meet my local legal
requirements, plus some extra lights that actually let me see where
I'm going in the dark!

I ride a bike year-round, all weathers.

>The hub generator is intended to power a relatively low powered
>headlight of the sort that is intended to allow motorist to see you,
>not to light your way in the dark.

Tried it, have you? SON E6 headlamp (or BiSY FL6 id you prefer)? 3W
halogen lamp, 12V with the SON hub dynamo? Thought not.

>The same power could be put out by
>a couple batteries, but then it would only cost $15 or so and wouldn't
>require custom wheel building.

Until the batteries run out. And then again the next week. And the
next.

Generator lights are highly desirable on a commuter bike, not least
because you never know when you might be late leaving the office.

>The "toy" is an excellent minimalist solution to provide some active
>safety lighting. Modern LEDs provide a VERY useable amount of light
>with very little energy input.

Safety lighting? Hmmm. This is a UK-based company, selling lights
which do not meet the legal standards for road use in the UK. What
does that say to you?

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

[numbnutz]

>Tried it, have you? SON E6 headlamp (or BiSY FL6 id you prefer)? 3W
>halogen lamp, 12V with the SON hub dynamo? Thought not.

There's no need to get snippy. I'll bet you haven't tried the
freelights, either, have you? By the way, 6V or 12V doesn't matter.
3W is 3W whether it comes from a 1V source or from a 1000V source.

>>The same power could be put out by
>>a couple batteries, but then it would only cost $15 or so and wouldn't
>>require custom wheel building.
>
>Until the batteries run out. And then again the next week. And the
>next.

OK, so spend $30 or 40 and get one with a rechargeable battery...
For the $400 it will cost you to have a wheel built you can get a car
headlight bright HID lamp with a Li Ion battery.

>Safety lighting? Hmmm. This is a UK-based company, selling lights
>which do not meet the legal standards for road use in the UK. What
>does that say to you?

It says that a bunch of beaurocrats who haven't ridden bikes since
they were in knee pants decided to muck about in things they know
almost nothing about. You can't blame them. That's the job. They do
it all the time.

It seems to me that anything that flashes bright, colored lights on a
bike at night is going to improve its visibility to motorists,
regardless of legal definitions. Improving visibility is equal to
improving safety- that's why we put reflectors and reflective tape on
bikes and wear light colored riding clothes at night. It works.

How many people ride bikes that cost <$100, vs. how many rides bikes
with $400 wheels? The feelights are an inexpensive way to add some
safety to a bike for people who have not the means (the vast majority
of the world's bike riders) or intention (also the vast majority of
the world's bike riders) of spending $400 for a wheel that comes with
a headlamp. $400 is a year's income for some of the world.

Al that said, the freelights thing is not perfect. The triggering
system for the standby lights could use a bit of refinement. I'd be
inclined to use a magnet and reed switch so the whole thing could be
sealed better against the weather. I'd probably put the magnet and
reed switch on the brake lever where it's less likely to have road
dirt sprayed all over it.

Also, as far as I know, the only zip-ties that are resistant to UV are
the black ones. I suspect a lot of the zip-ties will have to be
replaced relatively quickly.

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:18:19 -0500, numbnutz <numbnutz> wrote:

>>Tried it, have you? SON E6 headlamp (or BiSY FL6 id you prefer)? 3W
>>halogen lamp, 12V with the SON hub dynamo? Thought not.

>There's no need to get snippy. I'll bet you haven't tried the
>freelights, either, have you? By the way, 6V or 12V doesn't matter.
>3W is 3W whether it comes from a 1V source or from a 1000V source.

12V on a SON is 6W - two lights in series. But no, I haven't tried
the freelights because they do not meet the legal standards in the
country where they are made and I ride.

>>>The same power could be put out by
>>>a couple batteries, but then it would only cost $15 or so and wouldn't
>>>require custom wheel building.

>>Until the batteries run out. And then again the next week. And the
>>next.

>OK, so spend $30 or 40 and get one with a rechargeable battery...
>For the $400 it will cost you to have a wheel built you can get a car
>headlight bright HID lamp with a Li Ion battery.

And that will be great as long as you remember to have the battery
charged at all times, even if you are not expecting to be late home.

My bikes are utility bikes, I prefer the "always-there" convenience of
a dynamo, thanks all the same. And that's what the freelights guy is
selling, too. Maybe if he could go away and get the back light
certified to BS6102/3 I'd be interested, it would remove the need for
a wire from the front to the rear of the bike. Until it's BS 6102/3
kitemarked it's of no practical use to me, or to any other cyclist in
the country of manufacture.

For a kitemarked battery-free rear lamp I would pay at least twice the
price listed, by the way.

>>Safety lighting? Hmmm. This is a UK-based company, selling lights
>>which do not meet the legal standards for road use in the UK. What
>>does that say to you?

>It says that a bunch of beaurocrats who haven't ridden bikes since
>they were in knee pants decided to muck about in things they know
>almost nothing about. You can't blame them. That's the job. They do
>it all the time.

I refer the hon. gentleman to my earlier answer:
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/web/public.nsf/Documents/rvlr

Trust me, I know about this :-)

>It seems to me that anything that flashes bright, colored lights on a
>bike at night is going to improve its visibility to motorists,
>regardless of legal definitions.

Sorry, but I'm afraid it doesn't work that way. Although the
Government has figures showing that flashing lights are about four
times as visible as steady ones, at least one cyclist has been held to
be 50% to blame for his own death because he was using a flashing
light and not one approved to the relevant standards.

Flashing lights are also illegal in this country when mounted directly
to the bike.

>Improving visibility is equal to
>improving safety- that's why we put reflectors and reflective tape on
>bikes and wear light colored riding clothes at night. It works.

Actually I have tried and failed to find any credible evidence that
urban riders using lights are less likely to be injured than those
without. Which doesn't deny it might be true (and won;t stop me
spending a small fortune on lights) but it is worth noting.

Where unlit riders are hit, it appears to be mainly a function of
their riding off the footway into the path of a car, or right of way
violations of a type which are common in broad daylight even when
cyclists are dressed head to foot in fluorescent yellow.

>How many people ride bikes that cost <$100, vs. how many rides bikes
>with $400 wheels? The feelights are an inexpensive way to add some
>safety to a bike for people who have not the means (the vast majority
>of the world's bike riders) or intention (also the vast majority of
>the world's bike riders) of spending $400 for a wheel that comes with
>a headlamp. $400 is a year's income for some of the world.

Up to a point. The people for whom $400 is a year's income tend not
to use lights at all (even car lights are often not used in those
countries).

If you go to Germany, most bikes seem to be fitted with generator
lights (I think it's a legal requirement). Same in Holland, although
the lamps are routinely broken or hanging off!

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

[[email protected]]

numbnutz wrote:
>
>
> OK, so spend $30 or 40 and get one with a rechargeable battery...
> For the $400 it will cost you to have a wheel built you can get a car
> headlight bright HID lamp with a Li Ion battery.

"numbnutz" seems to be echoing the mistakes of another poster, who used
the high price of the world's best dynamo (generator) to argue against
all generators.

It's like saying "A Campy carbon crankset costs $600, so nobody should
use cranksets on their bikes. Just scoot along with your feet."

You can get perfectly adequate generator sets for less than $40.
http://www.thethirdhand.com/index.cgi?c=Accessories&sc=Generator&id=266672516572

You can get cheap ones suitable for rare, slow-speed use for less than
$20. Add a halogen bulb and those too are fine for most riding.

When you do this, you'll no longer have to worry about replacing
batteries, recharging batteries, forgetting to bring your headlight,
having someone steal your headlight, riding further than your headlight
permits, etc. Your headlight works just like the one on your car: it's
always ready. Your bike becomes a much more practical vehicle.

Given the availability of $20 generators that can actually light the
road, I can't see spending half that for the home-cobbled,
non-standard, inadequate toy that the OP spammed us to sell.

- Frank Krygowski

[hfhfh]

>"numbnutz" seems to be echoing the mistakes of another poster, who used
>the high price of the world's best dynamo (generator) to argue against
>all generators.
>
>It's like saying "A Campy carbon crankset costs $600, so nobody should
>use cranksets on their bikes. Just scoot along with your feet."

Actually I was merely arguing against $400 generators. There are
plenty of less expensive one's out there, and they're replaceable when
they break...

[Mike Kruger]

> wrote in message
>
> You can get perfectly adequate generator sets for less than
$40.
>
http://www.thethirdhand.com/index.cgi?c=Accessories&sc=Generator&id=266672516572
>
> You can get cheap ones suitable for rare, slow-speed use for
less than
> $20. Add a halogen bulb and those too are fine for most
riding.
>
I started a thread on re-using old bike generators last fall:
<http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.misc/browse_
frm/thread/7f2a273ca74e7f61/45629bc659e55805?q=mike+kruger+gen
erator&rnum=1&hl=en#45629bc659e55805>

or http://tinyurl.com/8ev87

where Frank and others provided more detail on how to do this.
I've now been using this for some months, and for occasional
use the old Schwinn-approved generator works well.

But to get back to the O.P. -- he's been occasionally dropping
these messages into this newsgroup for some time. Anybody
actually TRIED these? Well, I suppose not, or somebody would
have posted their experience. So, in the name of science, I've
just invested $19 for a set, and I'll report back in a few
weeks.

I understand flashing lights are not allowed in some
countries, but the U.S. is not one of them (Illinois law
specifically permits them, if in addition to the required
reflector).

[Mike Kruger]

Mike Kruger wrote:
>
> But to get back to the O.P. -- he's been occasionally dropping
> these messages into this newsgroup for some time. Anybody
> actually TRIED these? Well, I suppose not, or somebody would
> have posted their experience. So, in the name of science, I've
> just invested $19 for a set, and I'll report back in a few
> weeks. [original commercial posting below]
>
Report #1:
The package arrived. It was a small package, with a bunch of parts
inside. There were no instructions, although there are instructions on
his website
http://www.helpyou.freewire.co.uk/install.html
which seem clear enough.

Unfortunately, the movingmagnet and magnet supporter bracket were
missing. This looks similar to a standard bike computer magnet, but it
might be bigger. I've written back. More later