LBS vs. Nashbar (grrrrr)

[Karsten's Rage]

I'm having a hard time getting my head around this. I thought web stores
were supposed to easier and CHEAPER than brick and mortar. What you lost
on was customer service which is lacking anyway in some brick and mortar
stores. What I particularly hate about b&m is when I know FAR more about
the product than the guy trying to sell it to me. I do my research, know
going prices and I try to make good decisions about what I want before
I go in or go online. I find this particularly true in high end
electronic stores (cameras, dvds, etc.)

So Conti Gatorskins are 35.99 at my LBS where they spent at least 30
minutes with me going over the pros and cons of 23's vs 25's. With tax
that comes out to 38.96/tire.

Because of Nashbar's insane shipping policy based on the price of the
order rather than the weight, their Conti Gatorskins come out to
44.40!!! (shipping and tax) Even with the promotion code which gives you
10% off, it comes out to 1.14 more than the LBS? So for 2.28 (x2) less
and gas, I get 30 minutes of my LBS guy's time and a pair of tires.

Ive wanted a pair of chrono shorts for a long time because I think they
look cool. I think Ill just sew myself a color swatch on my Techni-Fine's.

k

[jabario@backpacker.com]

You seem to forget that nashbar often has other name brand tires at a
far lower price than at 99.9% of lbs's. The same with clothing,
components, helmets, etc. I'll take nashbar over the shops in NJ.

[Rich]

Karsten's Rage wrote:

> Because of Nashbar's insane shipping policy based on the price of the
> order rather than the weight, their Conti Gatorskins come out to
> 44.40!!! (shipping and tax) Even with the promotion code which gives you
> 10% off, it comes out to 1.14 more than the LBS? So for 2.28 (x2) less
> and gas, I get 30 minutes of my LBS guy's time and a pair of tires.

Looked at another way, Nashbar SAVED you 30 minutes of your time.

I neither like nor trust salespeople. Is wigit A really better then
wigit B, or do they just have a giant box of wigit A's lying around? Or
is the markup on wigit A greater? Those questions lead me to do my own
research on-line, so then I just buy on-line as well. Except for things
that need to "fit", like cloths or bikes.

Rich

[hfhfh]

Pricepoint is usually even cheaper than Nashbar...

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> So Conti Gatorskins are 35.99 at my LBS where they spent at least 30
> minutes with me going over the pros and cons of 23's vs 25's. With tax
> that comes out to 38.96/tire.

> Because of Nashbar's insane shipping policy based on the price of the
> order rather than the weight, their Conti Gatorskins come out to 44.40!!!
> (shipping and tax) Even with the promotion code which gives you 10% off,
> it comes out to 1.14 more than the LBS? So for 2.28 (x2) less and gas, I
> get 30 minutes of my LBS guy's time and a pair of tires.

I'm a bit confused; did you end up buying the tires at the LBS, or did you
spend half an hour at the LBS and then buy them (for more money) at Nashbar?

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"Karsten's Rage" > wrote in message
...
> I'm having a hard time getting my head around this. I thought web stores
> were supposed to easier and CHEAPER than brick and mortar. What you lost
> on was customer service which is lacking anyway in some brick and mortar
> stores. What I particularly hate about b&m is when I know FAR more about
> the product than the guy trying to sell it to me. I do my research, know
> going prices and I try to make good decisions about what I want before I
> go in or go online. I find this particularly true in high end electronic
> stores (cameras, dvds, etc.)
>
> So Conti Gatorskins are 35.99 at my LBS where they spent at least 30
> minutes with me going over the pros and cons of 23's vs 25's. With tax
> that comes out to 38.96/tire.
>
> Because of Nashbar's insane shipping policy based on the price of the
> order rather than the weight, their Conti Gatorskins come out to 44.40!!!
> (shipping and tax) Even with the promotion code which gives you 10% off,
> it comes out to 1.14 more than the LBS? So for 2.28 (x2) less and gas, I
> get 30 minutes of my LBS guy's time and a pair of tires.
>
> Ive wanted a pair of chrono shorts for a long time because I think they
> look cool. I think Ill just sew myself a color swatch on my Techni-Fine's.
>
> k

[Mike Kruger]

"Mike Jacoubowsky" > wrote in message
m...
>
> > Because of Nashbar's insane shipping policy based on the
price of the
> > order rather than the weight, their Conti Gatorskins come
out to 44.40!!!
> > (shipping and tax) Even with the promotion code which
gives you 10% off,
> > it comes out to 1.14 more than the LBS? So for 2.28 (x2)
less and gas, I
> > get 30 minutes of my LBS guy's time and a pair of tires.
>
> I'm a bit confused; did you end up buying the tires at the
LBS, or did you
> spend half an hour at the LBS and then buy them (for more
money) at Nashbar?
>
Well, I don't understand his basic premise. It's not at all
strange to me that a brick and mortar store can be cheaper on
a particular item. Nashbar's not running a charity and there
is no requirement that they actually provide a cheaper price.

For one thing, part of what's provided online is breadth of
selection. For example, if I'm looking for a nice tire for my
old road bike with 27 inch wheels, I can get several nice
choices from Sheldon Brown, or I can hope my local shop has
more than just a low quality replacement (which is, frankly,
most of the market for replacement 27 inch tires so that's
what seems to be commonly stocked). But I don't expect
Sheldon to be cheaper.

[scharf.steven@gmail.com]

Mike Kruger wrote:

>For one thing, part of what's provided online is breadth of
>selection. For example, if I'm looking for a nice tire for my
>old road bike with 27 inch wheels, I can get several nice
>choices from Sheldon Brown, or I can hope my local shop has
>more than just a low quality replacement (which is, frankly,
>most of the market for replacement 27 inch tires so that's
>what seems to be commonly stocked). But I don't expect
>Sheldon to be cheaper.

This is very true. I've ordered stuff from Harris Cyclery (Sheldon)
that is simply not available elsewhere in the U.S. at any price.

Also, with gas at $2.21 a gallon (yesterday), I'm not going to be
driving around the Bay Area searching for an esoteric item.

[Frank Drackman]

"Karsten's Rage" > wrote in message
...
> I'm having a hard time getting my head around this. I thought web stores
> were supposed to easier and CHEAPER than brick and mortar. What you lost
> on was customer service which is lacking anyway in some brick and mortar
> stores. What I particularly hate about b&m is when I know FAR more about
> the product than the guy trying to sell it to me. I do my research, know
> going prices and I try to make good decisions about what I want before I
> go in or go online. I find this particularly true in high end electronic
> stores (cameras, dvds, etc.)
>
> So Conti Gatorskins are 35.99 at my LBS where they spent at least 30
> minutes with me going over the pros and cons of 23's vs 25's. With tax
> that comes out to 38.96/tire.
>

This has to be a troll. If not, the OP is one horrible person.

[Paul R]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Mike Kruger wrote:
>
> >For one thing, part of what's provided online is breadth of
> >selection. For example, if I'm looking for a nice tire for my
> >old road bike with 27 inch wheels, I can get several nice
> >choices from Sheldon Brown, or I can hope my local shop has
> >more than just a low quality replacement (which is, frankly,
> >most of the market for replacement 27 inch tires so that's
> >what seems to be commonly stocked). But I don't expect
> >Sheldon to be cheaper.
>
> This is very true. I've ordered stuff from Harris Cyclery (Sheldon)
> that is simply not available elsewhere in the U.S. at any price.
>
> Also, with gas at $2.21 a gallon (yesterday), I'm not going to be
> driving around the Bay Area searching for an esoteric item.
>

Well, you could always ride you bike....

[Karsten's Rage]

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>So Conti Gatorskins are 35.99 at my LBS where they spent at least 30
>>minutes with me going over the pros and cons of 23's vs 25's. With tax
>>that comes out to 38.96/tire.
>
>
>>Because of Nashbar's insane shipping policy based on the price of the
>>order rather than the weight, their Conti Gatorskins come out to 44.40!!!
>>(shipping and tax) Even with the promotion code which gives you 10% off,
>>it comes out to 1.14 more than the LBS? So for 2.28 (x2) less and gas, I
>>get 30 minutes of my LBS guy's time and a pair of tires.
>
>
> I'm a bit confused; did you end up buying the tires at the LBS, or did you
> spend half an hour at the LBS and then buy them (for more money) at Nashbar?
>

No I bought the tires at my LBS. Mostly I buy everything from my LBS.
What I was frustrated about was I wanted these Chronos which you cant
get anywhere else. But even on sale, with a discount, the shipping and
tax comes out to 10$ on a 30$ item? And this is shorts right so shipping
should be like 2 or 3 dollars? not 7.

So for a lark, I decided to see what would happen in the shopping cart
if I put in the tires I had just bought at the LBS to see what the
pricing would be.

And no, I am not a troll, Im just frustrated.

k

[Karsten's Rage]

Frank Drackman wrote:
>
> This has to be a troll. If not, the OP is one horrible person.

Nope not a troll. What is an OP?

k

[spamgaard@yahoo.dk]

Karsten's Rage > wrote in
:

> I'm having a hard time getting my head around this. I thought web
> stores were supposed to easier and CHEAPER than brick and mortar.


Sometimes that is true, sometimes not. Go back to Nashbar.com, their prices
on many things fluctuate from day to day... the online coupons certainly
do. Not every online dealer does enough volume sales of Brand X component
to hit a lower price point. I buy some things from the LBS, parts from
Nashbar and from Harris Cyclery as well as PowerOnCycling and others.
Harris is pricy on some things, and has a few things only they seem to
stock. I would have bought my new crank at Harris Cyclery, it was $10 less
than the LBS, but A.E. Bike had it for $15 less than Harris Cyclery. Was it
worth the time to comparison shop? I think so.


-Chuck

[thejen12@hotmail.com]

Sounds like you're upset that you got a good deal on tires at your LBS.
I don't get it! If you wanted to buy from Nashbar so badly, why did
you even go to your LBS?

Jenn

Karsten's Rage wrote:
> I'm having a hard time getting my head around this. I thought web stores
> were supposed to easier and CHEAPER than brick and mortar. What you lost
> on was customer service which is lacking anyway in some brick and mortar
> stores. What I particularly hate about b&m is when I know FAR more about
> the product than the guy trying to sell it to me. I do my research, know
> going prices and I try to make good decisions about what I want before
> I go in or go online. I find this particularly true in high end
> electronic stores (cameras, dvds, etc.)
>
> So Conti Gatorskins are 35.99 at my LBS where they spent at least 30
> minutes with me going over the pros and cons of 23's vs 25's. With tax
> that comes out to 38.96/tire.
>
> Because of Nashbar's insane shipping policy based on the price of the
> order rather than the weight, their Conti Gatorskins come out to
> 44.40!!! (shipping and tax) Even with the promotion code which gives you
> 10% off, it comes out to 1.14 more than the LBS? So for 2.28 (x2) less
> and gas, I get 30 minutes of my LBS guy's time and a pair of tires.
>
> Ive wanted a pair of chrono shorts for a long time because I think they
> look cool. I think Ill just sew myself a color swatch on my Techni-Fine's.
>
> k

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> This has to be a troll. If not, the OP is one horrible person.

Looked that way at first, but he clarified things a bit later... he did
actually buy the tires at the LBS (where they spend half an hour with him).
It just didn't sound that way initially.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Frank Drackman" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Karsten's Rage" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I'm having a hard time getting my head around this. I thought web stores
>> were supposed to easier and CHEAPER than brick and mortar. What you lost
>> on was customer service which is lacking anyway in some brick and mortar
>> stores. What I particularly hate about b&m is when I know FAR more about
>> the product than the guy trying to sell it to me. I do my research, know
>> going prices and I try to make good decisions about what I want before I
>> go in or go online. I find this particularly true in high end electronic
>> stores (cameras, dvds, etc.)
>>
>> So Conti Gatorskins are 35.99 at my LBS where they spent at least 30
>> minutes with me going over the pros and cons of 23's vs 25's. With tax
>> that comes out to 38.96/tire.
>>
>
> This has to be a troll. If not, the OP is one horrible person.
>

[Rich]

Karsten's Rage wrote:

> Nope not a troll. What is an OP?

Original Poster

[Pat Lamb]

Karsten's Rage wrote:
> No I bought the tires at my LBS. Mostly I buy everything from my LBS.
> What I was frustrated about was I wanted these Chronos which you cant
> get anywhere else. But even on sale, with a discount, the shipping and
> tax comes out to 10$ on a 30$ item? And this is shorts right so shipping
> should be like 2 or 3 dollars? not 7.
>
> So for a lark, I decided to see what would happen in the shopping cart
> if I put in the tires I had just bought at the LBS to see what the
> pricing would be.

Pretty much par for the course. Mail order shipping and handling seems
to start somewhere between $5 and $10. You learn to save up all the
things you want for a big order, and do your impulse shopping locally.

Else you pay to help UPS or FedEx have a banner year.

Pat

[Karsten's Rage]

wrote:
> Sounds like you're upset that you got a good deal on tires at your LBS.
> I don't get it! If you wanted to buy from Nashbar so badly, why did
> you even go to your LBS?
>

No sorry. Im not upset that I got a good deal. What Im upset about is
1) Nashbar charges shipping based on price of item rather than weight
2) I have to pay tax even though I cant go the B&M Performance Bike and
get the same item

So Im sort of into lightweight stuff for other aspects of my outdoor
fun. And its nice because a lot of the stuff I get weighs next to
nothing. So the shipping charges are either very low or nothing (worked
into the price of the thing I guess)

So what doesnt make sense to me is that the ultralight stuff tends to be
more expensive than the normal weight stuff. But it costs theoretically
less to ship because shipping is always weight and size of box, not
price of whats in the box.

So for example, lets say we are talking shorts here. It is frustrating
to me that for a pair of 34 dollar shorts I have to pay 6.95 shipping
when they only weight maybe 8 oz. max? In a tyvek envelope with some
padding, that might amount to 1.98 actual shipping charges. Add the tax
and its 10 bucks for shipping the shorts. Get some really expensive
shorts (same weight) and they go up to 11 dollars shipping not including
tax. Thats what is frustrating. The shipping charges based on whats in
the box rather than what the shipper charges for (the box size and
weight). Thats why I dont buy bricks online.

I just got off the phone getting some ultralight stuff, the salesman and
I were working hard to get me up to 1 lbs to get the most out of my 3.85
priority shipping charge. Thats what Im looking for in a web store.

And no Im not a horrible person. I was only looking at Nashbar for the
shorts I wanted which are not sold anywhere else AFAIK. I drive more
miles than my local LBS to go to my favorite LBS.

k

[Rich]

Karsten's Rage wrote:


> So what doesnt make sense to me is that the ultralight stuff tends to be
> more expensive than the normal weight stuff. But it costs theoretically
> less to ship because shipping is always weight and size of box, not
> price of whats in the box.

I believe it's not just shipping, it's shipping and handling. And it
costs the same (in employee time) to fetch a light item and pack it as
it does a heavy item (to a point, anyway).

Rich

[Frank Drackman]

"Karsten's Rage" > wrote in message
...
> Frank Drackman wrote:
>>
>> This has to be a troll. If not, the OP is one horrible person.
>
> Nope not a troll. What is an OP?
>
> k

I guess that would you, Original Poster = (OP)

I can't believe that you would think that it was ethical to spend 30 minutes
with the staff of your LBS to get educated on tires and then be upset that
you can't find a better price mail order/internet. How would you feel if
you owned the store and had customers treat you the same way.

I have no problem with you doing your research via the
catalogs/internet/friends and then trying to find the best price.

[Karsten's Rage]

Frank Drackman wrote:
> I can't believe that you would think that it was ethical to spend 30
minutes
> with the staff of your LBS to get educated on tires and then be upset
that
> you can't find a better price mail order/internet. How would you
feel if
> you owned the store and had customers treat you the same way.
>
> I have no problem with you doing your research via the
> catalogs/internet/friends and then trying to find the best price.
>
>



I miscommunicated. No I dont think its ethical to spend any time at all
in a bike store and then go buy it online. Im not upset that I couldnt
find a better price online.

I already knew what the best price on the tires was. I wanted to buy
them from my LBS anyway and the 30 minute conversation was definitely
worth my gas, time and not getting the absolute best price online (with
shipping and maybe tax it was a couple dollars anyway).

What I was frustrated about is the shorts being 10 bucks to ship. The
shorts are what I wanted and could get no where else but Nashbar. I
couldnt believe the shopping cart so I, as a test only, tried entering
the tires I had just bought to see what would happen with the pricing.

What I still have a hard time believing is that if I WANTED to buy the
tires from an online store (which I didnt), or the shorts (which I did),
I would have to pay, what in my opinion only, is too much for shipping,
handling and tax to boot.

Now I fully admit that if Nashbar had said "Chronos shorts, 40 dollars,
free shipping and handling, no tax" I probably would have bought two
pair thinking I was getting the deal of the century. Thats relativity
for ya.

I was just frustrated, thats all. I was figuring that in the old days
the .com's could severely undercut the B&M because they didnt pay rent
in a walk'in district, they didnt necessarily have to have knowledgable
employees that could deal with customers, and they could buy larger
volumes and get deeper discounts from the manufacturer/distributors.

So in a lot of ways, I am used to getting things that I cant really get
anywhere else, online, for very reasonable prices. But I guess with bike
stores its different. Based on my experience and my ethical bent, I dont
even go into Local Camera Shops or any store for high end audio or video
equipment except a local friend of mine that I really trust.

What I like about my LBS is that after I do all the research and decide
on what I want, they have it. Its like they do the same research I do,
and come to the conclusion that they should carry the same thing that I
want. Coming out better priced than Nashbar is just an added bonus.

Finally I just personally do not like the paradigm of shipping charges
based on price of whats in the box. I noticed that Colorado Cyclist,
Performance Bike and Nashbar all do this. Maybe they dont have an
incoming process sophisticated enough to weigh everything or they dont
have a database which can calculate based on weight or maybe its just
easier for them to use that paradigm but I personally dont like it.

So either dont tell me thats what youre doing :) or Ill avoid those
places in the future so as not get so frustrated.

k

[Frank Drackman]

"Karsten's Rage" > wrote in message
...
> Frank Drackman wrote:
> > I can't believe that you would think that it was ethical to spend 30
> minutes
> > with the staff of your LBS to get educated on tires and then be upset
> that
> > you can't find a better price mail order/internet. How would you
> feel if
> > you owned the store and had customers treat you the same way.
> >
> > I have no problem with you doing your research via the
> > catalogs/internet/friends and then trying to find the best price.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> I miscommunicated. No I dont think its ethical to spend any time at all in
> a bike store and then go buy it online. Im not upset that I couldnt find a
> better price online.
>
> I already knew what the best price on the tires was. I wanted to buy them
> from my LBS anyway and the 30 minute conversation was definitely worth my
> gas, time and not getting the absolute best price online (with shipping
> and maybe tax it was a couple dollars anyway).
>
> What I was frustrated about is the shorts being 10 bucks to ship. The
> shorts are what I wanted and could get no where else but Nashbar. I
> couldnt believe the shopping cart so I, as a test only, tried entering the
> tires I had just bought to see what would happen with the pricing.
>
> What I still have a hard time believing is that if I WANTED to buy the
> tires from an online store (which I didnt), or the shorts (which I did), I
> would have to pay, what in my opinion only, is too much for shipping,
> handling and tax to boot.
>
> Now I fully admit that if Nashbar had said "Chronos shorts, 40 dollars,
> free shipping and handling, no tax" I probably would have bought two pair
> thinking I was getting the deal of the century. Thats relativity for ya.
>
> I was just frustrated, thats all. I was figuring that in the old days the
> .com's could severely undercut the B&M because they didnt pay rent in a
> walk'in district, they didnt necessarily have to have knowledgable
> employees that could deal with customers, and they could buy larger
> volumes and get deeper discounts from the manufacturer/distributors.
>
> So in a lot of ways, I am used to getting things that I cant really get
> anywhere else, online, for very reasonable prices. But I guess with bike
> stores its different. Based on my experience and my ethical bent, I dont
> even go into Local Camera Shops or any store for high end audio or video
> equipment except a local friend of mine that I really trust.
>
> What I like about my LBS is that after I do all the research and decide on
> what I want, they have it. Its like they do the same research I do, and
> come to the conclusion that they should carry the same thing that I want.
> Coming out better priced than Nashbar is just an added bonus.
>
> Finally I just personally do not like the paradigm of shipping charges
> based on price of whats in the box. I noticed that Colorado Cyclist,
> Performance Bike and Nashbar all do this. Maybe they dont have an incoming
> process sophisticated enough to weigh everything or they dont have a
> database which can calculate based on weight or maybe its just easier for
> them to use that paradigm but I personally dont like it.
>
> So either dont tell me thats what youre doing :) or Ill avoid those places
> in the future so as not get so frustrated.
>
> k

I am sorry, you are not a horrible person, and I completly misunderstood
your original post.

I agre with you on on being frustrated with stores that are not up front on
the total cost of an item. At times I have been surprised to find huge
shipping and handling charges at checkout and usually end the transaction at
that point... and never go back.

[Karsten's Rage]

Frank Drackman wrote:
>
> I am sorry, you are not a horrible person, and I completly misunderstood
> your original post.
>
> I agre with you on on being frustrated with stores that are not up front on
> the total cost of an item. At times I have been surprised to find huge
> shipping and handling charges at checkout and usually end the transaction at
> that point... and never go back.
>
>
Thanks for that. I think that boils it down. I was just surprised and
frustated to see an item "on sale" come out to be more than the original
price when all was said and done. I ended the transaction too and got
out my wife's old sewing machine to start practicing.

k

[dkl@topowest.com]

Karsten's Rage wrote:
>
> So Conti Gatorskins are 35.99 at my LBS where they spent at least 30
> minutes with me going over the pros and cons of 23's vs 25's. With tax
> that comes out to 38.96/tire.
>
> Because of Nashbar's insane shipping policy based on the price of the
> order rather than the weight, their Conti Gatorskins come out to
> 44.40!!! (shipping and tax) Even with the promotion code which gives you
> 10% off, it comes out to 1.14 more than the LBS? So for 2.28 (x2) less
> and gas, I get 30 minutes of my LBS guy's time and a pair of tires.

What I find interesting is that you think that the gatorskins will last
3x as long as the various $12 sale tires. Not saying you are wrong,
just
noting that you believe strongly in them. I agree that half the
friggin
time a Conti 2000 or 3000 gets a bad slice in the first 500 miles. But
I have only ever ridden a gatorskin for 300 miles and so I don't know
how
long they last/how often they die early deaths from slices.

I was thinking that the panaracer stradius elite was sort of like a
gatorskin. a bit heavy but with rubber on the sidewalls. Then I
brushed a curb ever so lightly with the rear, and frayed it's sidewall
there -- so much for that theory.

dkl



dkl

[Mike Kruger]

"Mike Kruger" > wrote in message
news:1118283675.5d92c27c2a7ab7af55f6114bdc315663@t eranews...
> >
> Nashbar's not running a charity and there
> is no requirement that they actually provide a cheaper
price.
>
Nashbar doesn't seem to be a cheap place to buy tires.
As luck would have it, my oldest tire (an Avocet Cross)
developed a large bulge in the sidewall this morning on my
ride in to work. Not trusting the tire further, I stopped at
an LBS near work (Rapid Transit in Chicago) and bought a
Continental Top Touring 2000 tire for $40 plus tax, about
$43.40.

I checked tonight, just out of curiosity.
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=&subcategory=&brand=1126&sku=1630&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=
Nashbar has this same tire for $44.95 plus $6.95 for shipping
plus $3.21 tax for a total of $54.61

[Jeff Starr]

On 9 Jun 2005 17:47:06 -0700, wrote:

>
>
>Karsten's Rage wrote:
>>
>> So Conti Gatorskins are 35.99 at my LBS where they spent at least 30
>> minutes with me going over the pros and cons of 23's vs 25's. With tax
>> that comes out to 38.96/tire.
>>
>> Because of Nashbar's insane shipping policy based on the price of the
>> order rather than the weight, their Conti Gatorskins come out to
>> 44.40!!! (shipping and tax) Even with the promotion code which gives you
>> 10% off, it comes out to 1.14 more than the LBS? So for 2.28 (x2) less
>> and gas, I get 30 minutes of my LBS guy's time and a pair of tires.
>
>What I find interesting is that you think that the gatorskins will last
>3x as long as the various $12 sale tires. Not saying you are wrong,
>just
>noting that you believe strongly in them. I agree that half the
>friggin
>time a Conti 2000 or 3000 gets a bad slice in the first 500 miles. But
>I have only ever ridden a gatorskin for 300 miles and so I don't know
>how
>long they last/how often they die early deaths from slices.
>
>I was thinking that the panaracer stradius elite was sort of like a
>gatorskin. a bit heavy but with rubber on the sidewalls. Then I
>brushed a curb ever so lightly with the rear, and frayed it's sidewall
>there -- so much for that theory.
>
>dkl

Hi, where does he say that Gatorskins last 3 times as long? I looked,
maybe I missed it.


Life is Good!
Jeff

[Mark Hickey]

wrote:

>I was thinking that the panaracer stradius elite was sort of like a
>gatorskin. a bit heavy but with rubber on the sidewalls. Then I
>brushed a curb ever so lightly with the rear, and frayed it's sidewall
>there -- so much for that theory.

I've had outstanding luck with the Panaracer T-Serv tires. They feel
like the Gatorskins, but are a lot cheaper, just as light, and last
forever. I got around 7-8,000 miles on a set of 25mm 700c T-Servs,
and the front one still looked like new. I just threw a set of the
1.75" T-Servs on my MTB and am impressed with the ride and traction
(didn't realize how nasty my old slicks had become).

I never had any sidewall issues with the T-Servs either, and I do a
lot of curbs and rocks, which DID damage the Gatorskins I used to run.
Both tires seem similar in resistance to thorns (which is a good
thing).

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

[Karsten's Rage]

Jeff Starr wrote:
> Hi, where does he say that Gatorskins last 3 times as long? I looked,
> maybe I missed it.
>
I think he was saying that they would have to last 3 times as long to
equal his 12 dollar tires. 3x12 = 35.99 = price I paid for the Gatorskins

k

[SBC Usenet]

I used to share your concerns, but it is only a learning curve. First, buy
at your LBS if you can. You need them, and they need you. Well, I do.

BikeNashbar, Performance, Supergo, qbike.com all get my business from time
to time. No one I know of beats the return policy of Performance. You find
it cheaper, they will match price. Over the years, Nashbar had Brooks
saddles on sale, and I have a Brooks on every bike and a spare. But I had
to buy when Nashbar wanted to sell, not when I wanted. I got a Niterider
Blowtorch for $129 from Performance when they wanted to sell it.

Schwalbe, Carradice and Jandd seems to be at retail. I did the roof racks
from Onion River at a good price but not a steal. It was convenient to get
everything at once. So welcome to bike buying. Make a shopping list. when
the deals come, get that order in.

"Karsten's Rage" > wrote in message
...
> I'm having a hard time getting my head around this. I thought web stores
> were supposed to easier and CHEAPER than brick and mortar. What you lost

[Jeff Starr]

On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 23:07:07 -0700, Karsten's Rage >
wrote:

>Jeff Starr wrote:
> > Hi, where does he say that Gatorskins last 3 times as long? I looked,
>> maybe I missed it.
>>
>I think he was saying that they would have to last 3 times as long to
>equal his 12 dollar tires. 3x12 = 35.99 = price I paid for the Gatorskins
>
>k

Ok, I get it.

They are good tires, worth the money, in my opinion.


Life is Good!
Jeff

[Booker C. Bense]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article >,
Karsten's Rage > wrote:
>Frank Drackman wrote:
>>
>> I am sorry, you are not a horrible person, and I completly misunderstood
>> your original post.
>>
>> I agre with you on on being frustrated with stores that are not up front on
>> the total cost of an item. At times I have been surprised to find huge
>> shipping and handling charges at checkout and usually end the transaction at
>> that point... and never go back.
>>
>>
>Thanks for that. I think that boils it down. I was just surprised and
>frustated to see an item "on sale" come out to be more than the original
>price when all was said and done. I ended the transaction too and got
>out my wife's old sewing machine to start practicing.
>

_ If you really want those shorts[1], just google around for the
current Nashbar coupon code. It generally works out to free
shipping and no tax.

_ As far as I can tell shipping by price is standard practice in
the world of online bike shops. From my experience, online is
only cheaper when it's on close out sale. The big reason to shop online
is selection.

_ Booker C. Bense

[1]- I have no idea why, they're ugly as sin IMHO.

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[Pat]

Just wondering what you decided on the pro's and con's of 23s versus 25s. I
had this same conversation at the LBS today and with 4 guys--there was no
unanimous decision! One said the "comfort" gained from the 25 was a myth
and another said it was real. One said the 25 would be useful for "normal"
wheels but my "performance" wheelset required 23s to be fully
appreciated....

Pat in TX