Can I add fender & rack hole-thingies to a cro-mo frame?

[bryanska]

Hello,

I love my bike but it has ZERO holes for attaching racks and fenders.
It sucks. I have P-clips everywhere, and they're sliding all over the
frame and scratching it.

Can local bike people attach those little lugs with holes in them? The
things that I can use to mount a rack?

How much does something like that cost? And I'd have to get it painted
too?

Thanks for your answers.

[mark]

"bryanska" wrote ...
> Hello,
>
> I love my bike but it has ZERO holes for attaching racks and fenders.
> It sucks. I have P-clips everywhere, and they're sliding all over the
> frame and scratching it.
>
> Can local bike people attach those little lugs with holes in them? The
> things that I can use to mount a rack?
>
> How much does something like that cost? And I'd have to get it painted
> too?
>
> Thanks for your answers.
>

Eyelets (little lugs with holes in them) are generally part of the dropouts
(slot that the wheel axle fits into). With lugged steel frames it was
possible for a good bike shop to replace the dropouts, which would be one
way to get eyelets for fenders. And yes, some repainting would be necessary.

There are fenders that attach without screws, eliminating the need for
eyelets, but they offer pretty minimal protection. SKS Raceblades are one
example.
I would suggest that, the next time you buy a bike, you look for one that
has eyelets for fenders and racks. Touring bikes, hybrid bikes, and possibly
a

[Neil Brooks]

"mark" > wrote:

>
>"bryanska" wrote ...
>> Hello,
>>
>> I love my bike but it has ZERO holes for attaching racks and fenders.
>> It sucks. I have P-clips everywhere, and they're sliding all over the
>> frame and scratching it.
>>
>> Can local bike people attach those little lugs with holes in them? The
>> things that I can use to mount a rack?
>>
>> How much does something like that cost? And I'd have to get it painted
>> too?
>>
>> Thanks for your answers.
>>
>
>Eyelets (little lugs with holes in them) are generally part of the dropouts
>(slot that the wheel axle fits into). With lugged steel frames it was
>possible for a good bike shop to replace the dropouts, which would be one
>way to get eyelets for fenders. And yes, some repainting would be necessary.
>
>There are fenders that attach without screws, eliminating the need for
>eyelets, but they offer pretty minimal protection. SKS Raceblades are one
>example.
>I would suggest that, the next time you buy a bike, you look for one that
>has eyelets for fenders and racks. Touring bikes, hybrid bikes, and possibly
>a
>

Come on, Mark . . . the suspense is killing me. SAY IT, ALREADY!!

[maxo]

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 16:01:01 -0700, bryanska wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I love my bike but it has ZERO holes for attaching racks and fenders. It
> sucks. I have P-clips everywhere, and they're sliding all over the frame
> and scratching it.
>

Try a really big seatbag like they sell at wallbike and lose the rack, if
your fork is crowned you can get a cool clamp on front rack at Yellow
Jersey. You can do the fenders with zip ties which won't scratch.

> Can
local bike people attach those little lugs with holes in them? The
> things that I can use to mount a rack?
>

yeah if they're experienced frame builders, call and ask.

> How much does something like that cost?

Under a hundred bucks

>And I'd have to get it painted
> too?

200-500 for a pro respray depending on how much prep you do yourself, or
strip it and take it to a professional powder coater. Probably not worth
it, but given a choice, I'd go for powdercoat on a commuter as it's
durable.

I stripped my bike, primed and painted it with Krylon. Looks very
good, but I took my time--not recommended, rattle can jobs are fragile. If
you use paint from the auto parts store, it's a little more durable and
contains nice toxic hardeners, so you'll need a respirator...

[Mark Hickey]

"bryanska" > wrote:

>I love my bike but it has ZERO holes for attaching racks and fenders.
>It sucks. I have P-clips everywhere, and they're sliding all over the
>frame and scratching it.
>
>Can local bike people attach those little lugs with holes in them? The
>things that I can use to mount a rack?
>
>How much does something like that cost? And I'd have to get it painted
>too?

There may be another option... I've used some of the "shouldered
washers" (look like a itty bitty little straw hat from the side) that
fit inside the "relief hole" on your dropout. If there's enough room,
and a mm or two of clearance between that spot and your smallest cog,
you have a relatively solid mounting point for a rack.

You might be able to fabricate something like that if you can't find
one at a bike store or on-line. Basically, all it has to do is have a
large, flat surface bigger than the hole in your dropout, with a
thicker section that'll fit through the hole, and have an
appropriately-sized hole for the bolt you'll be using (inserted from
the inside, of course).

You'll still need the P-clip for the upper mount, but that should be
more than adequate since it really shouldn't be carrying much weight
anyway.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

[bryanska]

I took a look at the relief holes. They're pretty tiny, maybe 1/8". If
I can get a nylon washer in there, I don't think the screws will be
large enough to support the rack.

A messenger bag isn't large enough to fit a change of clothes & shoes,
only a rack bag or panniers will work.

The rear fender went on OK with zip ties & P-clips, but the front
fender is a different story.

This sucks. I didn't know squat about bikes when I bought this thing
used. The really bad part is, it's just nice enough not to sell. So I
have to buy a totally new bike to get what I want - this bike is just
that short of upgradeable.

Does anyone have a 56cm Surly road frame to donate to the cause?

[frkrygow@yahoo.com]

bryanska wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I love my bike but it has ZERO holes for attaching racks and fenders.
> It sucks. I have P-clips everywhere, and they're sliding all over the
> frame and scratching it.
>
> Can local bike people attach those little lugs with holes in them? The
> things that I can use to mount a rack?
>
> How much does something like that cost? And I'd have to get it painted
> too?
>
> Thanks for your answers.

One possiblity is to fit Old Man Mountain racks. As I understand, they
don't need eyelets at the bottom.
http://www.oldmanmountain.com/rear_rack_page.htm

Once those were installed, the fenders could probably mount to them.

I don't understand your problem with fenders & P-clips, though. I've
mounted fenders using P-clips and had no problems at all. Maybe you
just need a different size P-clip?

Or perhaps a different design? Take a look at the ones under the
"hardware" link at http://www.oldmanmountain.com/products.htm

BTW, I haven't used any of the above products. I came upon the web
site when trying to solve problems similar to yours.

- Frank Krygowski

[Earl Bollinger]

"bryanska" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hello,
>
> I love my bike but it has ZERO holes for attaching racks and fenders.
> It sucks. I have P-clips everywhere, and they're sliding all over the
> frame and scratching it.
>
> Can local bike people attach those little lugs with holes in them? The
> things that I can use to mount a rack?
>
> How much does something like that cost? And I'd have to get it painted
> too?
>
> Thanks for your answers.
>

You might try using some "GOOP" adhesive, of which you can find at most
large hardware home improvement stores, like "Lowes" or "The Home Depot",
and so on. Basically, you make sure you know where everything goes, loosen
one Pclip at a time, put some Goop on it, tighten it back down, and let it
cure overnight to be sure it has cured good. The Pclips should stay put now
really good, and if you really need to you could still get them off, albeit
with some hassles though.

Yes it is theoretically possible that you could cut off the rear dropouts
and braze or weld on on new ones, but I don't think any of the custom frame
builders would ever do that nowadays. It would likely cost as much as buying
a new frame with threaded holes already in it.
The main problem is the different steels being used, there is no guarantees
that they could properly weld a unknown steel and have the welds hold or not
weaken the steel tubing. I have tried this on different motorcycle frames
with very mixed results. Most of the time the tubing starts to crack just
ahead of the weld on me, so you weld that crack, and it cracks further down.
Eventually the frame is screwed up and doesn't flex correctly anymore. It is
difficult to determine which welding rods to use on a unknown steel alloy.
But I am not the greatest welder, so I am sure that maybe someone else is a
lot better at it than I am.

[mark]

"Neil Brooks" wrote...
> "mark" > wrote:
>
> >
> >Eyelets (little lugs with holes in them) are generally part of the
dropouts
> >(slot that the wheel axle fits into). With lugged steel frames it was
> >possible for a good bike shop to replace the dropouts, which would be one
> >way to get eyelets for fenders. And yes, some repainting would be
necessary.
> >
> >There are fenders that attach without screws, eliminating the need for
> >eyelets, but they offer pretty minimal protection. SKS Raceblades are one
> >example.
> >I would suggest that, the next time you buy a bike, you look for one that
> >has eyelets for fenders and racks. Touring bikes, hybrid bikes, and
possibly
> >a
> >
>
> Come on, Mark . . . the suspense is killing me. SAY IT, ALREADY!!

few cyclocross bikes have these eyelets.

Sorry, I somehow hit the send button a little prematurely there.

[buckyllama]

I did the "relief hole" thing for mounting a rack on my road bike. I
took 2 stainless hex head bolts and faced off most of the head so it
was only about 2mm thick, stuck it through from the inside and hten
used a nut to attach the rack. there is just a tiny bit of play in the
bolt but once tightened it doesn't move. It would be possible to
mount the fenders to the same bolt, just make it a little longer.

I used the metal lathe to face off the head but a file or grinder would
work just as well. More of an excuse to use the lathe than anything.

For the upper mount I made a funny shape aluminum riser that attaches
to the seat binder bolt. my frame uses an external collar for the
seatpost, and there is about 1.5cm of clearance between the sides where
the threading of the bolt is visible. I turned down a nut to be about
5mm thick and the Al is about 5mm thick. So the seatpost binder bolt
goes through the one side of the clamp, through the nut, through a hole
in the al extension, and into the threaded side of the clamp. Tighten
the seatpost. Then tighten the nut against the threaded side to clamp
the riser. Looks strange but works fine. In retrospect P-clips would
be easier.

[maxo]

On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 17:38:42 -0500, Earl Bollinger wrote:

> Yes it is theoretically possible that you could cut off the rear dropouts
> and braze or weld on on new ones,

That's a pretty rare thing to do and the frame would have to be worth some
big bucks, but you can certainly get a builder to zap some eyelets on
the existing dropouts really quick. :)