12 speed Campy?

[Llatikcuf]

Maybe old news, but new to me:

http://www.campyonly.com/rumors.html

"June 22, 2005--We're hearing rumors floating around Vicenza that
Campagnolo will unveil a 12-speed Record gruppo for 2006. No details
yet on how they would fit two more cogs on the hub. More details as we
get them ..."

When will it end?

-n

[IMKen]

Who wants 12? I can't get 1000 miles out of ten speed chain. It's junk,
bring back 8.

Ken



"Llatikcuf" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Maybe old news, but new to me:
>
> http://www.campyonly.com/rumors.html
>
> "June 22, 2005--We're hearing rumors floating around Vicenza that
> Campagnolo will unveil a 12-speed Record gruppo for 2006. No details
> yet on how they would fit two more cogs on the hub. More details as we
> get them ..."
>
> When will it end?
>
> -n
>

[Antti Salonen]

IMKen > wrote:

> Who wants 12? I can't get 1000 miles out of ten speed chain. It's junk,
> bring back 8.

You must be doing something wrong if you can't get 1000 miles from a
chain. I get about 4000 to 5000 miles from a 10-speed chain without
excessive wear.

-as

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

IMKen wrote:
> Who wants 12? I can't get 1000 miles out of ten speed chain. It's junk,
> bring back 8.
>
> Ken

Then you need a better wrench. I see the same wear on 10s chains,
measured with a length checker(Rohloff) as I did with 8s or 9s. I hear
this '10s chains wear out in short order' all the time but I don't see
it. How do ya know the chain is worn? What do you do to confirm this?

I have one customer that rides by all the time for us to measure his
chain. He has 4000 miles and it still measures like new, a Campag 10s
chain. He keeps it clean, doesn't cross chain.

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

IMKen wrote:
> Who wants 12? I can't get 1000 miles out of ten speed chain. It's junk,
> bring back 8.
>
> Ken


Thinner plates and shorter pins don't make a chain wear out any
quicker.

[carlfogel@comcast.net]

On 31 Aug 2005 06:22:36 -0700, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"
> wrote:

>
>IMKen wrote:
>> Who wants 12? I can't get 1000 miles out of ten speed chain. It's junk,
>> bring back 8.
>>
>> Ken
>
>
>Thinner plates and shorter pins don't make a chain wear out any
>quicker.

Dear Peter,

Why wouldn't narrow pins wear more quickly than wide pins?

Carl Fogel

[App]

Carl asked: Why wouldn't narrow pins wear more quickly than wide pins?

Dear Carl:

Why would they?

I sense you believe they would by your question.

Peter (not C.)

[Lou Holtman]

wrote:
> On 31 Aug 2005 06:22:36 -0700, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>IMKen wrote:
>>
>>>Who wants 12? I can't get 1000 miles out of ten speed chain. It's junk,
>>>bring back 8.
>>>
>>>Ken
>>
>>
>>Thinner plates and shorter pins don't make a chain wear out any
>>quicker.
>
>
> Dear Peter,
>
> Why wouldn't narrow pins wear more quickly than wide pins?
>
> Carl Fogel


Because the contact area between the pin and the inner plates matter.
And so far as I can see that has not changed from 9 to 10 speed chains.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

[carlfogel@comcast.net]

On 31 Aug 2005 08:51:52 -0700, "App" >
wrote:

>Carl asked: Why wouldn't narrow pins wear more quickly than wide pins?
>
>Dear Carl:
>
>Why would they?
>
>I sense you believe they would by your question.
>
>Peter (not C.)

Dear App,

Aaargh!

I was thinking the wrong way because I'm thinking about
motorcycles at the moment.

The bicycle chain pins and plates remain the same thickness,
so they wear at the same rate for "narrow" and "wide"
chains. All that changes on the bicycle chains is how wide
the space is for the gear tooth.

Here's a picture of the kind of "narrow" that I had in mind:

http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/chain_a.jpg

The motorcycle and bicycle chains are the same pitch, but
the pins and plates are much thicker--but that's not what
happens when 8-speed bicycle chain is narrowed to 10-speed.

You're right, Peter Chisholm was right, and I shouldn't be
up this early in the morning.

Carl Fogel

[carlfogel@comcast.net]

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:40:43 +0200, Lou Holtman
> wrote:

wrote:
>> On 31 Aug 2005 06:22:36 -0700, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>IMKen wrote:
>>>
>>>>Who wants 12? I can't get 1000 miles out of ten speed chain. It's junk,
>>>>bring back 8.
>>>>
>>>>Ken
>>>
>>>
>>>Thinner plates and shorter pins don't make a chain wear out any
>>>quicker.
>>
>>
>> Dear Peter,
>>
>> Why wouldn't narrow pins wear more quickly than wide pins?
>>
>> Carl Fogel
>
>
>Because the contact area between the pin and the inner plates matter.
>And so far as I can see that has not changed from 9 to 10 speed chains.
>
>Lou

Dear Lou,

Aaargh!

I was thinking the wrong way because I'm thinking about
motorcycles at the moment.

The bicycle chain pins and plates remain the same thickness,
so they wear at the same rate for "narrow" and "wide"
chains. All that changes on the bicycle chains is how wide
the space is for the gear tooth.

Here's a picture of the kind of "narrow" that I had in mind:

http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/chain_a.jpg

The motorcycle and bicycle chains are the same pitch, but
the pins and plates are much thicker--but that's not what
happens when 8-speed bicycle chain is narrowed to 10-speed.

You're right, Peter Chisholm was right, and I shouldn't be
up this early in the morning.

Carl Fogel

[Lou Holtman]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> IMKen wrote:
>
>>Who wants 12? I can't get 1000 miles out of ten speed chain. It's junk,
>>bring back 8.
>>
>>Ken
>
>
> Then you need a better wrench. I see the same wear on 10s chains,
> measured with a length checker(Rohloff) as I did with 8s or 9s. I hear
> this '10s chains wear out in short order' all the time but I don't see
> it. How do ya know the chain is worn? What do you do to confirm this?
>
> I have one customer that rides by all the time for us to measure his
> chain. He has 4000 miles and it still measures like new, a Campag 10s
> chain. He keeps it clean, doesn't cross chain.
>


I'll second that. 1000 miles is a ridiculous low mileage. I ride 10
speed for almost 3 years now (22000 km) and I use my second chain now
and the first cogset/chainwheels.
The other day a passed the 10000 km mark on the second C10 chain and for
fun I compared that chain with a new one, wich I have standby. Normally
I NEVER take my chain of my bike for cleaning. I use some sort of wax a
collegue of mine 'invented'. Cleaning means rinsing the chain with cold
water from a garden hose, dry the chain (usually compressed air =
quicker) and lube again. I do this every 400 km (once 1-2 week) in dry
conditions or after every (very) wet ride.
Because I was at it I compared my Connex 9 speed stainless steel chain
from my Singlespeed also with the new C10 chain.

http://home.planet.nl/~holtm072/albums/kettingslijtage20042005/

The left chain is the Connex SS 9 sp chain from my singlespeed after
4300 km, the middle chain is a new C10 chain and the right chain is the
C10 chain of my road bike after 10000 km. All chains are hanging in full
length ( about 104 links) on a nail from the ceiling.

C10 chain is a very very good chain IMO.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

[Lou Holtman]

wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:40:43 +0200, Lou Holtman
> > wrote:
>
>
wrote:
>>
>>>On 31 Aug 2005 06:22:36 -0700, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>IMKen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Who wants 12? I can't get 1000 miles out of ten speed chain. It's junk,
>>>>>bring back 8.
>>>>>
>>>>>Ken
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Thinner plates and shorter pins don't make a chain wear out any
>>>>quicker.
>>>
>>>
>>>Dear Peter,
>>>
>>>Why wouldn't narrow pins wear more quickly than wide pins?
>>>
>>>Carl Fogel
>>
>>
>>Because the contact area between the pin and the inner plates matter.
>>And so far as I can see that has not changed from 9 to 10 speed chains.
>>
>>Lou
>
>
> Dear Lou,
>
> Aaargh!
>
> I was thinking the wrong way because I'm thinking about
> motorcycles at the moment.
>
> The bicycle chain pins and plates remain the same thickness,
> so they wear at the same rate for "narrow" and "wide"
> chains. All that changes on the bicycle chains is how wide
> the space is for the gear tooth.
>
> Here's a picture of the kind of "narrow" that I had in mind:
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/chain_a.jpg
>
> The motorcycle and bicycle chains are the same pitch, but
> the pins and plates are much thicker--but that's not what
> happens when 8-speed bicycle chain is narrowed to 10-speed.
>
> You're right, Peter Chisholm was right, and I shouldn't be
> up this early in the morning.
>
> Carl Fogel


Early in the morning? It's 7.00 pm here ;-)

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

[Jasper Janssen]

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:59:08 +0200, Lou Holtman >
wrote:

>The other day a passed the 10000 km mark on the second C10 chain and for
>fun I compared that chain with a new one, wich I have standby. Normally
>I NEVER take my chain of my bike for cleaning. I use some sort of wax a
>collegue of mine 'invented

Yeah, but you use MAGIC LUBRICATION WAX!


Jasper (poke, poke)

[Jasper Janssen]

On 31 Aug 2005 06:22:36 -0700, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"
> wrote:

>Thinner plates and shorter pins don't make a chain wear out any
>quicker.

Since these chains are bushingless, do the thinner sideplates not also
mean that there is less material on the stamped-sideplate
bushing-replacement-thingies?

Jasper

[Lou Holtman]

Jasper Janssen wrote:
> On 31 Aug 2005 06:22:36 -0700, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Thinner plates and shorter pins don't make a chain wear out any
>>quicker.
>
>
> Since these chains are bushingless, do the thinner sideplates not also
> mean that there is less material on the stamped-sideplate
> bushing-replacement-thingies?
>

Not necessarily.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

[Ron Ruff]

Lou Holtman wrote:

> I NEVER take my chain of my bike for cleaning. I use some sort of wax a
> collegue of mine 'invented'. Cleaning means rinsing the chain with cold
> water from a garden hose, dry the chain (usually compressed air =
> quicker) and lube again. I do this every 400 km (once 1-2 week) in dry
> conditions or after every (very) wet ride.

Any chance of getting the secret formula for that wax lube? I've been
using generic furniture wax myself lately with good results... but I
apply it almost daily (spray on rag and wipe). I suppose I could spray
it into a bottle and drip it on...

And Ken... how are you only getting 1,000 miles? It hasn't even been
raining much here lately. I've got over 3,000 miles on my cheap SRAM
chain, and wear is too little to measure.

[carlfogel@comcast.net]

On 31 Aug 2005 15:36:25 -0700, "Ron Ruff"
> wrote:

>Lou Holtman wrote:
>
>> I NEVER take my chain of my bike for cleaning. I use some sort of wax a
>> collegue of mine 'invented'. Cleaning means rinsing the chain with cold
>> water from a garden hose, dry the chain (usually compressed air =
>> quicker) and lube again. I do this every 400 km (once 1-2 week) in dry
>> conditions or after every (very) wet ride.
>
>Any chance of getting the secret formula for that wax lube? I've been
>using generic furniture wax myself lately with good results... but I
>apply it almost daily (spray on rag and wipe). I suppose I could spray
>it into a bottle and drip it on...
>
>And Ken... how are you only getting 1,000 miles? It hasn't even been
>raining much here lately. I've got over 3,000 miles on my cheap SRAM
>chain, and wear is too little to measure.

Dear Ron,

Possibly Ken spends more time in the lower gears than most
riders? Chain wear increases with the number of trips that
it makes around the gears.

Or possibly the lack of rain has left Ken's unwashed chain
in an unusually repellent state of filth?

Low-gear riding in the dirt often reduces the chain life of
off-road bicycles.

Carl Fogel

[Jasper Janssen]

On 31 Aug 2005 15:36:25 -0700, "Ron Ruff" > wrote:
>Lou Holtman wrote:
>
>> I NEVER take my chain of my bike for cleaning. I use some sort of wax a
>> collegue of mine 'invented'. Cleaning means rinsing the chain with cold
>> water from a garden hose, dry the chain (usually compressed air =
>> quicker) and lube again. I do this every 400 km (once 1-2 week) in dry
>> conditions or after every (very) wet ride.
>
>Any chance of getting the secret formula for that wax lube? I've been

You can buy it -- I'm sure the guy would be happy to ship you a case. He's
doing it commercially now, so no free lunch. Or you can pester your local
store to carry it.


Jasper

[Jasper Janssen]

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:59:40 +0200, Lou Holtman >
wrote:
>Jasper Janssen wrote:
>> On 31 Aug 2005 06:22:36 -0700, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>Thinner plates and shorter pins don't make a chain wear out any
>>>quicker.

>> Since these chains are bushingless, do the thinner sideplates not also
>> mean that there is less material on the stamped-sideplate
>> bushing-replacement-thingies?
>
>Not necessarily.

Okay, explain? Since the non-bushings are essentially formed by deforming
a piece of plate steel, wouldn't they range from the thickness of the
sideplate to a little bit less near the center?

Jasper

[Llatikcuf]

Have you seen a decrease in the life of cogs as they get thinner? Or do
the cogs stay about the same width and they trim the spacing? Both?
Seems like my old 7 speed cogs lasted forever, 9 speed ~5years - or
maybe 5 years just seemed like forever back then....

-n

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

wrote:
> On 31 Aug 2005 06:22:36 -0700, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >IMKen wrote:
> >> Who wants 12? I can't get 1000 miles out of ten speed chain. It's junk,
> >> bring back 8.
> >>
> >> Ken
> >
> >
> >Thinner plates and shorter pins don't make a chain wear out any
> >quicker.
>
> Dear Peter,
>
> Why wouldn't narrow pins wear more quickly than wide pins?
>
> Carl Fogel

Why would shorter pins wear out faster? 9s chain pins don't wear out
faster than 8s chain pins. They are all the same thickness, just
shorter. Are 10s pins past some sort of a magic 'minimum'?

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Llatikcuf wrote:
> Have you seen a decrease in the life of cogs as they get thinner? Or do
> the cogs stay about the same width and they trim the spacing? Both?
> Seems like my old 7 speed cogs lasted forever, 9 speed ~5years - or
> maybe 5 years just seemed like forever back then....
>
> -n

10s cogs are the same thickness as 9s. The spacers just got thinner,
for Campagnolo.

[Pat Lamb]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
> Why would shorter pins wear out faster? 9s chain pins don't wear out
> faster than 8s chain pins. They are all the same thickness, just
> shorter. Are 10s pins past some sort of a magic 'minimum'?

(Idle speculation ahead!) Since the actual wear is across the diameter
of the pins, the length shouldn't have any bearing (Sorry!) on wear.
However, if you made a chain with thicker pins, wouldn't the wear be
distributed around a greater area (circumference of the pin), and
wouldn't this give you longer chain life to wear to the same "stretch"?
The rollers would probably end up thinner, but that's not where the
wear comes from. And thinner rollers would offset the greater weight of
larger diameter pins, so you'd have no net effect on chain weight.

(Waiting to see if using "stretch" in the same sentence as "chain" will
entice Jobst to chip in...)

Pat

[carlfogel@comcast.net]

On 1 Sep 2005 06:20:58 -0700, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"
> wrote:

>
wrote:
>> On 31 Aug 2005 06:22:36 -0700, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >IMKen wrote:
>> >> Who wants 12? I can't get 1000 miles out of ten speed chain. It's junk,
>> >> bring back 8.
>> >>
>> >> Ken
>> >
>> >
>> >Thinner plates and shorter pins don't make a chain wear out any
>> >quicker.
>>
>> Dear Peter,
>>
>> Why wouldn't narrow pins wear more quickly than wide pins?
>>
>> Carl Fogel
>
>Why would shorter pins wear out faster? 9s chain pins don't wear out
>faster than 8s chain pins. They are all the same thickness, just
>shorter. Are 10s pins past some sort of a magic 'minimum'?

Dear Peter,

Aaargh!

I was thinking the wrong way because I'm thinking about
motorcycles at the moment.

The bicycle chain pins and plates remain the same thickness,
so they wear at the same rate for "narrow" and "wide"
chains. All that changes on the bicycle chains is how wide
the space is for the gear tooth.

Here's a picture of the kind of "narrow" that I had in mind:

http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/chain_a.jpg

The motorcycle and bicycle chains are the same pitch, but
the pins and plates are much thicker--but that's not what
happens when 8-speed bicycle chain is narrowed to 10-speed.

You're right, App was right, Lou was right, and I shouldn't
have been up that early in the morning.

Carl Fogel

[carlfogel@comcast.net]

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 08:53:14 -0500, Pat Lamb
> wrote:

>Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>>
>> Why would shorter pins wear out faster? 9s chain pins don't wear out
>> faster than 8s chain pins. They are all the same thickness, just
>> shorter. Are 10s pins past some sort of a magic 'minimum'?
>
>(Idle speculation ahead!) Since the actual wear is across the diameter
>of the pins, the length shouldn't have any bearing (Sorry!) on wear.
>However, if you made a chain with thicker pins, wouldn't the wear be
>distributed around a greater area (circumference of the pin), and
>wouldn't this give you longer chain life to wear to the same "stretch"?
> The rollers would probably end up thinner, but that's not where the
>wear comes from. And thinner rollers would offset the greater weight of
>larger diameter pins, so you'd have no net effect on chain weight.
>
>(Waiting to see if using "stretch" in the same sentence as "chain" will
>entice Jobst to chip in...)
>
>Pat

Dear Pat,

For the same powerplant, yes, thicker pins will wear more
slowly:

http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/chain_a.jpg

That's one reason why motorcycle chains (the ones that I was
mistakenly thinking of) are massive compared to bicycle
chains--the enormously greater force of the motorcycle
engine would wear out a bicycle chain much more quickly.

The other reason is that the motorcycle engine would tend to
break thin-component bicycle chains and narrow bicycle gear
teeth.

Again, I was just flat wrong because I was thinking of
motorcycle chain, and Peter, App, and Lou were absolutely
right. When bicycle chains are "narrowed" for 10 speed
chain, only the space for the gear tooth is narrowed. The
pins don't reduce in gauge, and the side plates don't become
thinner, so the surfaces that join link to link don't
change.

Carl Fogel

[Lou Holtman]

Ron Ruff wrote:
> Lou Holtman wrote:
>
>
>>I NEVER take my chain of my bike for cleaning. I use some sort of wax a
>>collegue of mine 'invented'. Cleaning means rinsing the chain with cold
>>water from a garden hose, dry the chain (usually compressed air =
>>quicker) and lube again. I do this every 400 km (once 1-2 week) in dry
>>conditions or after every (very) wet ride.
>
>
> Any chance of getting the secret formula for that wax lube?

It's not a secret, but I don't know the formula myself (I'm not a
chemist and I don't want to be one). I just use the stuff with good
results with a minimum of effort as described above. I don't like to
take the chain off for cleaning with solvents, degreaser or other nasty
stuff. To messy and to much trouble for me, and with the wax based lube
I use it is not necesarry. I do't want to start another 'how to clean
your chain, and what to use for lubrication' war here. I just want to
say that if you only get 1000 miles out of a chain it isn't because it
is a 10 speed chain.

I've been
> using generic furniture wax myself lately with good results... but I
> apply it almost daily (spray on rag and wipe). I suppose I could spray
> it into a bottle and drip it on...

I don't get it. When you spray it on a rag and wipe, the stuff only gets
on the outside where it has little effect. Maybe it helps preventing
dirt/sand sticking to your chain.
The idea behind the stuff I use is that it gets in the chain, where it
matters and after the solvent evaporated the wax fill the holes so dirt
doesn't get in the chain. A solid lube and some other stuff is mixed
with the wax.
The dirt lies just ON the chain and because it doesn't mix with the wax
it is easily removed by rinsing the chain with cold water with a garden
hose. That's the theory.

Lou

--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

[Jasper Janssen]

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 13:53:53 -0600, wrote:

>Again, I was just flat wrong because I was thinking of
>motorcycle chain, and Peter, App, and Lou were absolutely
>right. When bicycle chains are "narrowed" for 10 speed
>chain, only the space for the gear tooth is narrowed. The
>pins don't reduce in gauge, and the side plates don't become
>thinner, so the surfaces that join link to link don't
>change.

*Actually*... the space for the gear teeth remains the same (it's all
3/32" for any derailer chain, and 1/8" or 4/32" for oldfashioned single
speed/track chain), it's the *sideplates* that get thinner.


Jasper

[Ron Ruff]

Lou Holtman wrote:
>
> I don't get it. When you spray it on a rag and wipe, the stuff only gets
> on the outside where it has little effect.

That is what I expected... but it apparently gets in well enough to
last for one ride. I actually just finished 110 miles since I applied
the "wax" and the chain sounds fine.

I'm starting to think that *keeping* the chain clean is the most
important factor, and a wax based lube does that the best. I'll try
spraying some of the "Kleen Guard" in a drip bottle and see how that
works... maybe I'll only have to apply it every few hundred miles or
so...

[Lou Holtman]

Ron Ruff wrote:
> Lou Holtman wrote:
>
>>I don't get it. When you spray it on a rag and wipe, the stuff only gets
>>on the outside where it has little effect.
>
>
> That is what I expected... but it apparently gets in well enough to
> last for one ride. I actually just finished 110 miles since I applied
> the "wax" and the chain sounds fine.
>

If it work for you that's OK. As I said I don't want to start another
'how to lube a chain' war here.

> I'm starting to think that *keeping* the chain clean is the most
> important factor,

I agree with that.


and a wax based lube does that the best. I'll try
> spraying some of the "Kleen Guard" in a drip bottle and see how that
> works... maybe I'll only have to apply it every few hundred miles or
> so...
>

Good luck.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

[Matt O'Toole]

On Wed, 2005-08-31 at 06:21 -0700, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

> IMKen wrote:

> > Who wants 12? I can't get 1000 miles out of ten speed chain. It's junk,
> > bring back 8.

> Then you need a better wrench. I see the same wear on 10s chains,
> measured with a length checker(Rohloff) as I did with 8s or 9s. I hear
> this '10s chains wear out in short order' all the time but I don't see
> it. How do ya know the chain is worn? What do you do to confirm this?

> I have one customer that rides by all the time for us to measure his
> chain. He has 4000 miles and it still measures like new, a Campag 10s
> chain. He keeps it clean, doesn't cross chain.

It makes sense to me -- I doubt they wear any faster. My problem with
10s is the replacement cost. I even still feel that way about 9sp, vs.
and 8.

Matt O.

[Donald Gillies]

Matt O'Toole > writes:

>On Wed, 2005-08-31 at 06:21 -0700, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

>> IMKen wrote:

>> > Who wants 12? I can't get 1000 miles out of ten speed chain. It's junk,
>> > bring back 8.

This reminds me of my favorite 1970's cartoon. One guy is stopped and
leaning over the handlebars and we are looking at him from the rear
cluster. Another guy says,

"hey, what's that you got?"

To which he replies,

"why it's a new-fangled 27 SPEED ! ! !"

and the cluster has like 13 gears on it or something. Well, folks,
campy and shimano have made reality out of a joke.

I heard that Campagnolo is now working on a 1-sided chain so that they
can get all the way to 15 speeds ...

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Donald Gillies wrote:
> Matt O'Toole > writes:
>
> >On Wed, 2005-08-31 at 06:21 -0700, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
> >> IMKen wrote:
>
> >> > Who wants 12? I can't get 1000 miles out of ten speed chain. It's junk,
> >> > bring back 8.
>
> This reminds me of my favorite 1970's cartoon. One guy is stopped and
> leaning over the handlebars and we are looking at him from the rear
> cluster. Another guy says,
>
> "hey, what's that you got?"
>
> To which he replies,
>
> "why it's a new-fangled 27 SPEED ! ! !"
>
> and the cluster has like 13 gears on it or something. Well, folks,
> campy and shimano have made reality out of a joke.
>
> I heard that Campagnolo is now working on a 1-sided chain so that they
> can get all the way to 15 speeds ...
>
> - Don Gillies
> San Diego, CA

It's shimano and they have a patent for a one sided chain for a 14
speed...