OT - Kittens
 

""T°m Sherm@n"" " wrote in message
...
On 9/8/2011 1:40 AM, Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
I am surround by a passel of cats who worship the floor I walk on. Two
new
kittens have just arrived. Anyone want them?

If I adopted every kitten... :(

I do wish I was super-rich so I could make endowments for every no-kill
shelter.

If you are going to drown new born kittens, you have to do it right away. If
you wait even a week you bond with the cute little rascals and then you are
stuck with them for 20 years.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 

"JimmyMac" wrote in message
...
On Sep 8, 1:49 am, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]
You were the one who obsessed about Ed Gin. I merely told him to go ****
himself. That is what you should have done too if you had listened to my
sage advice instead of remonstrating with him. I have never known anyone
so
clueless as you when it came to Ed Gin. Even the cowardly Tom Sherman came
out of that fracas better.

We have had this discussion countless times, but you still insist on
resurrecting the matter over and over again. Why? Well, because you
live in the past and are obsessed with a man whose ass you failed to
successfully kick and with whom you will never have closure. If I am
obsessed with Ed Gin, then why is it that the only mention I have made
of the man's name, in over a decade name, has solely been in direct
response to and objection to your inability to refrain from
resurrecting the past about Ed Gin. I have challenged to abstain, to
cease, but you have failed miserably to do so. Obsession with Ed Gin
is your conundrum to resolve, not mine.

"I have never known anyone so clueless as you when it came to Ed Gin." - Ed
Dolan

Diversion is duly noted, but in some ways refreshingly acceptable
since you know so little about disease, treatments, nutrition,
supplementation, he FDA, doctor patient relationships, etc. Since you
are unwilling to get up to speed precluding an intelligent exchange,
diversion is just as well. It is just disappointingly tiresome that
the best diversion you can muster is the mind-numbing, insipid old Ed
Gin crap. How pathetic.

I know enough about all of the above subjects so I don't engage in wild
goose chases like you do.

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 

On Sep 8, 7:43*pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"JimmyMac" wrote in message

...
On Sep 8, 1:49 am, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]

You were the one who obsessed about Ed Gin. I merely told him to go ****
himself. That is what you should have done too if you had listened to my
sage advice instead of remonstrating with him. I have never known anyone
so
clueless as you when it came to Ed Gin. Even the cowardly Tom Sherman came
out of that fracas better.
We have had this discussion countless times, but you still insist on

resurrecting the matter over and over again. *Why? *Well, because you
live in the past and are obsessed with a man whose ass you failed to
successfully kick and with whom you will never have closure. *If I am
obsessed with Ed Gin, then why is it that the only mention I have made
of the man's name, in over a decade name, has solely been in direct
response to and objection to your inability to refrain from
resurrecting the past about Ed Gin. *I have challenged to abstain, to
cease, but you have failed miserably to do so. *Obsession with Ed Gin
is your conundrum to resolve, not mine.

*"I have never known anyone so clueless as you when it came to Ed Gin." - Ed
Dolan

Thanks for msking my point abundantly clear. You just can't stop
talking bout the past and Ed Gin can you. You are almost as obsesed
with Ed Gin as you are Sherman.

Diversion is duly noted, but in some ways refreshingly acceptable

since you know so little about disease, treatments, *nutrition,
supplementation, he FDA, doctor patient relationships, etc. *Since you
are unwilling to get up to speed precluding an intelligent exchange,
diversion is just as well. *It is just disappointingly tiresome that
the best diversion you can muster is the mind-numbing, insipid old Ed
Gin crap. *How pathetic.

I know enough about all of the above subjects so I don't engage in wild
goose chases like you do.

You mean in your skewed opinion you have merely assumed that you know
enough about all of the above subjects, but from our exchanges you
clearly demonstrated otherwise.

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 

"JimmyMac" wrote in message
...
On Sep 8, 7:43 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]
I know enough about all of the above subjects so I don't engage in wild
goose chases like you do.

You mean in your skewed opinion you have merely assumed that you know
enough about all of the above subjects, but from our exchanges you
clearly demonstrated otherwise.

I knew enough to get the PSA test after age 55, something that you neglected
to do to your great disadvantage.

We only have to know a smattering of something about a few things to get
along successfully in life. Mostly, it is what our mothers told us we should
do or not do as kids. The complicated life is not worth living.

Thus spake Zarathustra!

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 

On Sep 9, 9:45*am, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"JimmyMac" wrote in message

...
On Sep 8, 7:43 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]

I know enough about all of the above subjects so I don't engage in wild
goose chases like you do.
You mean in your skewed opinion you have merely assumed that you know

enough about all of the above subjects, but from our exchanges you
clearly demonstrated otherwise.

I knew enough to get the PSA test after age 55, something that you neglected
to do to your great disadvantage.

I got PSA tests every year form age 45 through age 56, but
unfortunately neglected to do so after that, much to my disadvantage.
Now, I have to deal with what is on my plate as a direct result, but
you shouldn't confuse knowledge with exercise of common sense or the
penalty for neglect (pick one). It is at this stage when knowledge
can make all the difference, something that you fail to acknowledge,
but what what do you know anyway?

We only have to know a smattering of something about a few things to get
along successfully in life.

Once again you assume that you speak for the masses ... everyone in
fact. Although you are all about opinion, you never qualify anything
that you say by stipulating that it is your opinion, but prefer to
proffer yout opinion as though fact, but you, and everyone else that
has every read what you wrote, already know that.

Mostly, it is what our mothers told us we should
do or not do as kids. The complicated life is not worth living.

Tis a pity that your sum total store knowledge is limited to early
childhood advice from mom merely because life became just too
complicated for you and just not worth it. That is telling and speaks
volume about you.

Thus spake Zarathustra!

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 

"JimmyMac" wrote in message
...
On Sep 9, 9:45 am, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]
I knew enough to get the PSA test after age 55, something that you
neglected
to do to your great disadvantage.

I got PSA tests every year form age 45 through age 56, but
unfortunately neglected to do so after that, much to my disadvantage.
Now, I have to deal with what is on my plate as a direct result, but
you shouldn't confuse knowledge with exercise of common sense or the
penalty for neglect (pick one). It is at this stage when knowledge
can make all the difference, something that you fail to acknowledge,
but what what do you know anyway?

Very strange that you did not have some warning from those early PSA tests.
I will bet the readings were boderline high.

We only have to know a smattering of something about a few things to get
along successfully in life.

Once again you assume that you speak for the masses ... everyone in
fact. Although you are all about opinion, you never qualify anything
that you say by stipulating that it is your opinion, but prefer to
proffer yout opinion as though fact, but you, and everyone else that
has every read what you wrote, already know that.

Nope, I am not interested in facts unless they bear directly on something I
want to know. Once I know what someone's opinion is on a subject, that is
sufficient for me to categorize him. Facts are almost always irrelevant to
the process.

Mostly, it is what our mothers told us we should
do or not do as kids. The complicated life is not worth living.

Tis a pity that your sum total store knowledge is limited to early
childhood advice from mom merely because life became just too
complicated for you and just not worth it. That is telling and speaks
volume about you.

Hells Bells, life is too complicated for all of us. Our evolution did not
prepare us for much complication. It was mostly fight or flight. No wonder
so many of us are ending up in mental hospitals and/or having to take
anti-depressant medications.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 

On Sep 14, 3:12*pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"JimmyMac" wrote in message

...
On Sep 9, 9:45 am, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]

I knew enough to get the PSA test after age 55, something that you
neglected
to do to your great disadvantage.
I got PSA tests every year form age 45 through age 56, but

unfortunately neglected to do so after that, much to my disadvantage.
Now, I have to deal with what is on my plate as a direct result, but
you shouldn't confuse knowledge with exercise of common sense or the
penalty for neglect (pick one). * It is at this stage when knowledge
can make all the difference, something that you fail to acknowledge,
but what what do you know anyway?

Very strange that you did not have some warning from those early PSA tests.
I will bet the readings were boderline high.

The thing is that the current thought is the what is borderline has
change over time from 4 to 2.5, but one have cancer cells with a low
PSA or a have a high PSA and not have cancer cell in the prostate. As
concerns the numbers, I no longer remember what they were.

We only have to know a smattering of something about a few things to get
along successfully in life.
Once again you assume that you speak for the masses ... everyone in

fact. *Although you are all about opinion, you never qualify anything
that you say by stipulating that it is your opinion, but prefer to
proffer your opinion as though fact, but you, and everyone else that
has every read what you wrote, already know that.

Nope, I am not interested in facts unless they bear directly on something I
want to know.

But you have often said that you know all that there is worth knowing.

Once I know what someone's opinion is on a subject, that is
sufficient for me to categorize him.

What's your point?

Facts are almost always irrelevant to the process.

Facts being irrelevant to the to process is not a fact, but rather an
opinion.

Mostly, it is what our mothers told us we should
do or not do as kids. The complicated life is not worth living.
Tis a pity that your sum total store knowledge is limited to early

childhood advice from mom merely because life became just too
complicated for you and just not worth it. *That is telling and speaks
volume about you.

Hells Bells, life is too complicated for all of us. Our evolution did not
prepare us for much complication. It was mostly fight or flight. No wonder
so many of us are ending up in mental hospitals and/or having to take
anti-depressant medications.

Diversion duly noted. Yes life is complicated, but complications in
life should not stem pursuit of knowledge. Reflecting back on the
original topic of conversation, I presented you with facts regarding
the FDA, nutrition, etc. as currently known and you presumptuously
dismissed all that I presented as voodoo science as if you know more
that the various professionals whose findings I cited. You merely
dismissed the evidence rather than debate the issues. Granted,
additional study remains to be done to arrive at definitive answers,
but what is known should not be summarily dismissed when what is known
could prove of benefit. You argued with me when in fact I was just
the messenger. It was your prerogative to have seized the opportunity
to embarrass yourself and dismiss the experts, their findings and what
is currently known and you did that very well.

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 

"JimmyMac" wrote in message
...
On Sep 14, 3:12 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]
Very strange that you did not have some warning from those early PSA
tests.
I will bet the readings were boderline high.

The thing is that the current thought is the what is borderline has
change over time from 4 to 2.5, but one have cancer cells with a low
PSA or a have a high PSA and not have cancer cell in the prostate. As
concerns the numbers, I no longer remember what they were.

I remember after my first PSA test, which was high, I was later examined by
an old school doctor at the VA who relied strictly on the digital exam. He
assured me I did not have prostate cancer, but still I worried about that
high PSA. So I repeated it until there was no mistake. My PSA was rising
steadily and fast. A biopsy confirmed that I had prostate cancer.

The PSA test is not definitive. But a biopsy is.
[...]

Diversion duly noted. Yes life is complicated, but complications in
life should not stem pursuit of knowledge. Reflecting back on the
original topic of conversation, I presented you with facts regarding
the FDA, nutrition, etc. as currently known and you presumptuously
dismissed all that I presented as voodoo science as if you know more
that the various professionals whose findings I cited. You merely
dismissed the evidence rather than debate the issues. Granted,
additional study remains to be done to arrive at definitive answers,
but what is known should not be summarily dismissed when what is known
could prove of benefit. You argued with me when in fact I was just
the messenger. It was your prerogative to have seized the opportunity
to embarrass yourself and dismiss the experts, their findings and what
is currently known and you did that very well.

I am surrounded here in SW Minnesota by nincompoops who think they know more
than the doctors. What they cite in their favor is all anecdotal fairy
tales. You have gone beyond that, but still I do not trust any research
until it has been confirmed by universal acceptance and put into universal
practice.

I have just spent the past day at the ER for a stomach ailment. Teh put me
through every standard routine test to make sure I did not have something
that was going to kill me. In the end, "you probably got a bug that will
pass." Was that information worth over $1000? Until today, I though I might
have stomach cancer.

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 

On Sep 15, 6:00*pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"JimmyMac" wrote in message

...
On Sep 14, 3:12 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]

Very strange that you did not have some warning from those early PSA
tests.
I will bet the readings were boderline high.

The thing is that the current thought is the what is borderline has
change over time from 4 to 2.5, but one have cancer cells with a low
PSA or a have a high PSA and not have cancer cell in the prostate. *As
concerns the numbers, I no longer remember what they were.

I remember after my first PSA test, which was high, I was later examined by
an old school doctor at the VA who relied strictly on the digital exam. He
assured me I did not have prostate cancer, but still I worried about that
high PSA. So I repeated it until there was no mistake. My PSA was rising
steadily and fast. A biopsy confirmed that I had prostate cancer.

The PSA test is not definitive. But a biopsy is.

PSA is a biomarker that is flawed, but it is the best that we have
until promising horizon methods become available. In the interim,
free PSA, PSA velocity, and PSA density tests are helpful. Just the
same, PSA screening remains controversial because it is has not been
definitively established if the PSA test actually saves lives.
Moreover, it is not clear that the benefits of PSA screening outweigh
the risks of follow-up diagnostic tests and cancer treatments. For
instance, the PSA test may detect small cancers that would never
become life threatening.

Diversion duly noted. *Yes life is complicated, but complications in

life should not stem pursuit of knowledge. *Reflecting back on the
original topic of conversation, I presented you with facts regarding
the FDA, nutrition, etc. as currently known and you presumptuously
dismissed all that I presented as voodoo science as if you know more
that the various professionals whose findings I cited. *You merely
dismissed the evidence rather than debate the issues. *Granted,
additional study remains to be done to arrive at definitive answers,
but what is known should not be summarily dismissed when what is known
could prove of benefit. *You argued with me when in fact I was just
the messenger. *It was your prerogative to have seized the opportunity
to embarrass yourself and dismiss the experts, their findings and what
is currently known and you did that very well.

I am surrounded here in SW Minnesota by nincompoops who think they know more
than the doctors. What they cite in their favor is all anecdotal fairy
tales. You have gone beyond that, but still I do not trust any research
until it has been confirmed by universal acceptance and put into universal
practice.

Anecdotal fairy tales may be comforting and may even have some
beneficial placebo effect, but that is no substitute for empirical
scientific study. Unfortunately, universal acceptance and
implementation of mainstream standard of care is a very slow process.

I have just spent the past day at the ER for a stomach ailment. Teh put me
through every standard routine test to make sure I did not have something
that was going to kill me. In the end, "you probably got a bug that will
pass." Was that information worth over $1000? Until today, I though I might
have stomach cancer.

Often the price of reassurance is steep, but whether worth it or not
is a judgment call that only the individual with the malady and
pocketbook can make.

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 

"JimmyMac" wrote in message
...
On Sep 15, 6:00 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]
I remember after my first PSA test, which was high, I was later examined
by
an old school doctor at the VA who relied strictly on the digital exam. He
assured me I did not have prostate cancer, but still I worried about that
high PSA. So I repeated it until there was no mistake. My PSA was rising
steadily and fast. A biopsy confirmed that I had prostate cancer.

The PSA test is not definitive. But a biopsy is.

PSA is a biomarker that is flawed, but it is the best that we have
until promising horizon methods become available. In the interim,
free PSA, PSA velocity, and PSA density tests are helpful. Just the
same, PSA screening remains controversial because it is has not been
definitively established if the PSA test actually saves lives.
Moreover, it is not clear that the benefits of PSA screening outweigh
the risks of follow-up diagnostic tests and cancer treatments. For
instance, the PSA test may detect small cancers that would never
become life threatening.

Almost everyone I know my age has a slightly elevated PSA, but they are all
on the watchful waiting regime. On the other hand, if the PSA is fairly high
to begin with and is rising rapidly, your only recourse is a biopsy, a not
particularly dangerous procedure.
[...]

I have just spent the past day at the ER for a stomach ailment. They put
me
through every standard routine test to make sure I did not have something
that was going to kill me. In the end, "you probably got a bug that will
pass." Was that information worth over $1000? Until today, I thought I
might
have stomach cancer.

Often the price of reassurance is steep, but whether worth it or not
is a judgment call that only the individual with the malady and
pocketbook can make.

The trouble is that you never know for sure one way or another. Your
symptoms will normally either get better to get worse. But if you wait on
that outcome, you can easily expire from whatever is ailing you - most
especially if you are old like I am.

Emergency Rooms are truly remarkable places. If you fear for your life, that
is where you want to be.

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 

On Sep 18, 10:37*pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"JimmyMac" wrote in message

...
On Sep 15, 6:00 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]

I remember after my first PSA test, which was high, I was later examined
by
an old school doctor at the VA who relied strictly on the digital exam. He
assured me I did not have prostate cancer, but still I worried about that
high PSA. So I repeated it until there was no mistake. My PSA was rising
steadily and fast. A biopsy confirmed that I had prostate cancer.

The PSA test is not definitive. But a biopsy is.
PSA is a biomarker that is flawed, but it is the best that we have

until promising horizon methods become available. *In the interim,
free PSA, PSA velocity, and PSA density tests are helpful. *Just the
same, PSA screening remains controversial because it is has not been
definitively established if the PSA test actually saves lives.
Moreover, it is not clear that the benefits of PSA screening outweigh
the risks of follow-up diagnostic tests and cancer treatments. For
instance, the PSA test may detect small cancers that would never
become life threatening.

Almost everyone I know my age has a slightly elevated PSA, but they are all
on the watchful waiting regime. On the other hand, if the PSA is fairly high
to begin with and is rising rapidly, your only recourse is a biopsy, a not
particularly dangerous procedure.

I recently read that 20% of 20 year old already have some prostate
cancer cells. I was shocked and dismayed. As concern a DRE, one can
have prostate cancer without palpable tumors, so just like the PSA , a
DRE is not entirely a sole reliable indicator.

I have just spent the past day at the ER for a stomach ailment. They put
me
through every standard routine test to make sure I did not have something
that was going to kill me. In the end, "you probably got a bug that will
pass." Was that information worth over $1000? Until today, I thought I
might
have stomach cancer.
Often the price of reassurance is steep, but whether worth it or not

is a judgment call that only the individual with the malady and
pocketbook can make.

The trouble is that you never know for sure one way or another. Your
symptoms will normally either get better to get worse. But if you wait on
that outcome, you can easily expire from whatever is ailing you - most
especially if you are old like I am.

Yep, its a crap shoot and a crap shoot is a gamble and what's at stake
is near an dear to you on a very personal level.

Emergency Rooms are truly remarkable places. If you fear for your life, that
is where you want to be.

A trauma center is better yet since trauma centers generally have a
greater depth of experience adn are often associated with teaching
institutions that are on top of the cutting edged of medical
technology and treatment.

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 

"JimmyMac" wrote in message
...
On Sep 18, 10:37 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]
Emergency Rooms are truly remarkable places. If you fear for your life,
that
is where you want to be.

A trauma center is better yet since trauma centers generally have a
greater depth of experience adn are often associated with teaching
institutions that are on top of the cutting edged of medical
technology and treatment.

Smaller towns will not have trauma centers. It is either the ER or nothing.
I am struck by the excellence of the doctors manning the ERs. That seems to
be their specialty as they remain on that particular job for years and keep
very odd hours besides.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 

On Sep 21, 10:29*pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"JimmyMac" wrote in message

...
On Sep 18, 10:37 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]

Emergency Rooms are truly remarkable places. If you fear for your life,
that
is where you want to be.
A trauma center is better yet since trauma centers generally have a

greater depth of experience adn are often associated with teaching
institutions that are on top of the cutting edged of medical
technology and treatment.

Smaller towns will not have trauma centers. It is either the ER or nothing.
I am struck by the excellence of the doctors manning the ERs. That seems to
be their specialty as they remain on that particular job for years and keep
very odd hours besides.

Understood. That is merely a choice limiting decision based primarily
upon one's geophysical place of residence/. On another note,
revisiting a previous topic of conversation, regarding detection of
prostate cancer via DRE and/or PSA, one study found that in men 40-50
years of age, tumors detected at time of autopsy were 40% whereas
tumors detected clinically (read DRE/PSA) in the same age group of the
living was mere 1"% ... not very encouraging now is it?

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 

"JimmyMac" wrote in message
...
On Sep 21, 10:29 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]
Smaller towns will not have trauma centers. It is either the ER or
nothing.
I am struck by the excellence of the doctors manning the ERs. That seems
to
be their specialty as they remain on that particular job for years and
keep
very odd hours besides.

Understood. That is merely a choice limiting decision based primarily
upon one's geophysical place of residence/. On another note,
revisiting a previous topic of conversation, regarding detection of
prostate cancer via DRE and/or PSA, one study found that in men 40-50
years of age, tumors detected at time of autopsy were 40% whereas
tumors detected clinically (read DRE/PSA) in the same age group of the
living was mere 1"% ... not very encouraging now is it?

The doctors at the VA insisted on a biopsy because of my high PSA test. It
was an in-office procedure and is definitive. But alas, most men never get
to the biopsy point until too late because the PSA test is usually all over
the map. The DRE is pretty worthless. You have to catch prostate cancer
before the physical tumor stage, i.e., before it has spread.

I read every day about men, many not so old, who are still dying of prostate
cancer. The trick is to catch it early before it has spread. Every man over
the age of 50 should be getting the PSA test every year even though it isn't
totally reliable.

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 

On Sep 23, 8:35*pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"JimmyMac" wrote in message

...
On Sep 21, 10:29 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]

Smaller towns will not have trauma centers. It is either the ER or
nothing.
I am struck by the excellence of the doctors manning the ERs. That seems
to
be their specialty as they remain on that particular job for years and
keep
very odd hours besides.
Understood. *That is merely a choice limiting decision based primarily

upon one's geophysical place of residence. On another note,
revisiting a previous topic of conversation, regarding detection of
prostate cancer via DRE and/or PSA, one study found that in men 40-50
years of age, tumors detected at time of autopsy were 40% whereas
tumors detected clinically (read DRE/PSA) in the same age group of the
living was mere 1"% ... not very encouraging now is it?

The doctors at the VA insisted on a biopsy because of my high PSA test. It
was an in-office procedure and is definitive.

A prostate biopsy is definitive, but the experience of the doctor on
the other end of the telescope is crucial. Like any profession, there
are some that are better than others at their craft. The one
disturbing risk of a prostate biopsy is needle track seeding which can
spreed the disease.

But alas, most men never get
to the biopsy point until too late because the PSA test is usually all over
the map. The DRE is pretty worthless. You have to catch prostate cancer
before the physical tumor stage, i.e., before it has spread.

Not quite true, Yes the DRE is not definitive nor is a PSA test, but
until better tools become available (some are almost there).that is
what is commonly employed. ON the other hadn you don't have to catch
prostate cancer before the tumor stage and often enough won't. As
long as the tumor is discovered when still organ confined, a
prostatectomy or radiation can, in most instances, be a life saver.
Once the disease has spread to seminal vesicles, lymph nudes or has
metastasized to bone, prognosis is far less promising.

I read every day about men, many not so old, who are still dying of prostate
cancer. The trick is to catch it early before it has spread. Every man over
the age of 50 should be getting the PSA test every year even though it isn't
totally reliable.

Since prostate cancer is now more commonly being discovered in younger
men, the current wisdom is to get a PSA every year beginning at age
40.

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 

"JimmyMac" wrote in message
...
On Sep 23, 8:35 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]
But alas, most men never get
to the biopsy point until too late because the PSA test is usually all
over
the map. The DRE is pretty worthless. You have to catch prostate cancer
before the physical tumor stage, i.e., before it has spread.

Not quite true, Yes the DRE is not definitive nor is a PSA test, but
until better tools become available (some are almost there).that is
what is commonly employed. ON the other hadn you don't have to catch
prostate cancer before the tumor stage and often enough won't. As
long as the tumor is discovered when still organ confined, a
prostatectomy or radiation can, in most instances, be a life saver.
Once the disease has spread to seminal vesicles, lymph nudes or has
metastasized to bone, prognosis is far less promising.

There has been a recent large study about which treatment is the least
disruptive to a normal life. Prostatectomy is the worst, followed by
radiation, followed by seeding, the least disruptive.

How is your anti-hormonal treatment going? I just had 1 shot in the belly
prior to radiation and seeding and had a non-ending series of hot flashes
for 4 months as a result. I don't know if I could live with those shots.

I read every day about men, many not so old, who are still dying of
prostate
cancer. The trick is to catch it early before it has spread. Every man
over
the age of 50 should be getting the PSA test every year even though it
isn't
totally reliable.

Since prostate cancer is now more commonly being discovered in younger
men, the current wisdom is to get a PSA every year beginning at age
40.

Yes, better safe than sorry!

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 

On Sep 27, 11:48*am, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"JimmyMac" wrote in message

...
On Sep 23, 8:35 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]

But alas, most men never get
to the biopsy point until too late because the PSA test is usually all
over
the map. The DRE is pretty worthless. You have to catch prostate cancer
before the physical tumor stage, i.e., before it has spread.
Not quite true, *Yes the DRE is not definitive nor is a PSA test, but

until better tools become available (some are almost there).that is
what is commonly employed. *ON the other hadn you don't have to catch
prostate cancer before the tumor stage and often enough won't. *As
long as the tumor is discovered when still organ confined, a
prostatectomy or radiation can, in most instances, be a life saver.
Once the disease has spread to seminal vesicles, lymph nudes or has
metastasized to bone, prognosis is far less promising.

There has been a recent large study about which treatment is the least
disruptive to a normal life. Prostatectomy is the worst, followed by
radiation, followed by seeding, the least disruptive.

How is your anti-hormonal treatment going? I just had 1 shot in the belly
prior to radiation and seeding and had a non-ending series of hot flashes
for 4 months as a result. I don't know if I could live with those shots.

Hot flashes are the least of my worries and I don't suffer too badly
from them. I am more concerned about the long term effects of hormonal
therapy. There is a downside to androgen deprivation therapy (ADT).
Adverse acute menopausal side effects include hot flashes, abdominal
fat deposit, breast pain and/or enlargement, reduction in the size of
testes and penis, loss of lean muscle mass, emotional changes,
anxiety, depression, weight gain, fatigue, impotence, and loss of
libido. More serious side effects include anemia, loss of bone mass
(osteopenia/osteoporosis), Type-II diabetes, cardiovascular disease,
elevated cholesterol and triglycerides, memory impairment, cognitive
decline, adverse effects on the liver, increased risk of skeletal
related event (pathological fracture), colorectal cancer, and excess
serum cortisol. Some anti-aging experts refer to cortisol as the
"death hormone" because of the multiple degenerative effects that it
produces including immune dysfunction, brain cell injury, and arterial
wall damage. Regardless, I had only two alternatives. I could allow
the disease to rapidly progress unabated, or I could opt for ADT to
survive longer. I chose the latter.

I read every day about men, many not so old, who are still dying of
prostate
cancer. The trick is to catch it early before it has spread. Every man
over
the age of 50 should be getting the PSA test every year even though it
isn't
totally reliable.
Since prostate cancer is now more commonly being discovered in younger

men, the current wisdom is to get a PSA every year beginning at age
40.

Yes, better safe than sorry!

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

OT Prostate Cancer
 

"JimmyMac" wrote in message
...
On Sep 27, 11:48 am, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]
There has been a recent large study about which treatment is the least
disruptive to a normal life. Prostatectomy is the worst, followed by
radiation, followed by seeding, the least disruptive.

How is your anti-hormonal treatment going? I just had 1 shot in the belly
prior to radiation and seeding and had a non-ending series of hot flashes
for 4 months as a result. I don't know if I could live with those shots.

Hot flashes are the least of my worries and I don't suffer too badly
from them. I am more concerned about the long term effects of hormonal
therapy. There is a downside to androgen deprivation therapy (ADT).
Adverse acute menopausal side effects include hot flashes, abdominal
fat deposit, breast pain and/or enlargement, reduction in the size of
testes and penis, loss of lean muscle mass, emotional changes,
anxiety, depression, weight gain, fatigue, impotence, and loss of
libido.

The loss of libido I also consider a serious matter in addition to the hot
flashes. It why I will never neuter any of my cats. It is best to function
as a normal creature for as long as possible. Mankind is not smart enough to
mess with mother nature.

What is remarkable to me in light of all the adverse side effects that you
list is that many guys who were being treated and supposedly cured of their
prostate cancer at the VA in Seattle were going to continue the anti-hormone
treatments anyway. That is how much they feared prostate cancer. I thought
that was crazy and never even considered such a course.

More serious side effects include anemia, loss of bone mass
(osteopenia/osteoporosis), Type-II diabetes, cardiovascular disease,
elevated cholesterol and triglycerides, memory impairment, cognitive
decline, adverse effects on the liver, increased risk of skeletal
related event (pathological fracture), colorectal cancer, and excess
serum cortisol. Some anti-aging experts refer to cortisol as the
"death hormone" because of the multiple degenerative effects that it
produces including immune dysfunction, brain cell injury, and arterial
wall damage. Regardless, I had only two alternatives. I could allow
the disease to rapidly progress unabated, or I could opt for ADT to
survive longer. I chose the latter.

You chose the only treatment you could have chosen. I would not worry too
much about those "serious side effects". I had a friend here in Worthington
who had the same diagnosis as you and the same treatment and he lived for
well over 10 years and never had any side effects except the ones I have
already mentioned (he died of kidney failure at age 83). Just be thankful
that the hot flashes do not bother you much and that you do not mind the
loss of libido.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota