Cycling & bikes - ARBR has gone downhill

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ARBR has gone downhill

Hello Bikers,
I have practically stopped using arbr because of off topic stuff and
personal attacks and nit picking. OT has almost destroyed arbr.
The attacks on Bryan Ball re his sign off message are another example of
the venom and nit picking of a few on this group.
(Bryan contributes immensely to recumbents and cycling with his
Bentrideronline.)
Ed Dolan started out in good humor to counter liberal biases on arbr,
but he has over done it.
But Ed Dolan is not the only, or even main, OT poster. Tom Sherman, for
one, posts many liberal OT posts.
I'm just plain sick of OT posts. Yes, one filters posts, but is it
worthwhile, especially when there are good alternatives as Bentrideronline
and Yahoo Groups.
There are many here who focus on biking and contribute worthwhile ideas,
humor, and friendship, but these folks are getting drowned in a sea of
politics and personal attacks and nit picking that has nothing to do with
biking.
Those who want to talk politics, go to a politics newsgroup.
Those that want to fight, email duel.
And those that need to show how clever they are, go to a Mensa group.
Try to recall those that you really like and who have left arbr over the
years or who hardly post any more and ask "Why?".
Sincerely,
Al Kubeluis

ARBR has gone downhill

Ed Dolan started out in good humor to counter liberal biases on arbr,
but he has over done it.

Which from the tenor of your missive was OK until the "liberal bias"
just drove him to the brink of sanity!

Puh-leeze.

Tom Sherman, for one, posts many liberal OT posts.

Horrors! We must find out where Tom lives! Where'd I put my torch and
pitchfork from the good ole brownshirt days?!?!?!

Maybe you should quit trying to be such an uptight control freak and do
what everyone else does--ignore or killfile the obvious flamage and get
on with your life.

Like it or not, unmoderated newsgroups are conversation. And when people
start conversing, the subject matter is going to meander. There's going
to be stuff spilling over the sides and making a mess. Step over the
yucky parts and keep going.

Whining about it sure isn't going to change anything. People have been
carping about OT posts in every newsgroup (except maybe alt.tasteless)
since time began (Jan 1, 1970).

And since this is a recumbent newsgroup, your subject line should read:
"ARBR is really going UPHILL"

ARBR has gone downhill

PT, Thank you for demonstrating exactly what I was talking about. Al

"Porquer Torquer" wrote in message
...
Ed Dolan started out in good humor to counter liberal biases on
arbr,
but he has over done it.

Which from the tenor of your missive was OK until the "liberal bias"
just drove him to the brink of sanity!

Puh-leeze.

Tom Sherman, for one, posts many liberal OT posts.

Horrors! We must find out where Tom lives! Where'd I put my torch and
pitchfork from the good ole brownshirt days?!?!?!

Maybe you should quit trying to be such an uptight control freak and do
what everyone else does--ignore or killfile the obvious flamage and get
on with your life.

Like it or not, unmoderated newsgroups are conversation. And when people
start conversing, the subject matter is going to meander. There's going
to be stuff spilling over the sides and making a mess. Step over the
yucky parts and keep going.

Whining about it sure isn't going to change anything. People have been
carping about OT posts in every newsgroup (except maybe alt.tasteless)
since time began (Jan 1, 1970).

And since this is a recumbent newsgroup, your subject line should read:
"ARBR is really going UPHILL"

ARBR has gone downhill

In article ,
says...
PT, Thank you for demonstrating exactly what I was talking about. Al

About a year ago (Date: 2002-12-02 12:19:15 PST), I made an early New
Years Resolution to not participate in OT inflammatory posts.

http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&l...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
&selm=MPG.18557c2e31e13217989701%40News.CIS.DFN .DE

For the most part, I have kept that promise. At the time I made my
resolution, I invited others to join me. IIRC, I got few takers. By
tolerating others irreverent, obscene and bigoted comments, has brought
this NG full circle. Good posters are leaving and what we have left
floating at the top of the cream pitcher are a few turds.

Maybe people like Al and Bryan will drift back, maybe not. Perhaps
others just as valued will come on board and replace these. I hope both
happen. Without quality, this group will atrophy. If you let it be
dominated by a few foul mouthed jerks, ARBR will certainly lose its
mission. Only by speaking out against the foul-mouthed jerks will they
get the message. Feeding their vitriol will only continue the downward
spiral into the sewage pits. It is your choice, you can speak up or you
can leave. If you leave, 'they' win.

I have been here over four years now. I've learned a lot. I've shared a
lot. I've had the chance to put some faces with names. I would like
that to continue. There are a lot of you that I haven't had a chance
to ride with yet. I hope to do that with as many of you as I can.

--
Cletus D. Lee
Bacchetta Giro
Lightning Voyager
http://www.clee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -

ARBR has gone downhill

"Al Kubeluis" wrote in message ...

Hello Bikers,
I have practically stopped using arbr because of off topic stuff and
personal attacks and nit picking. OT has almost destroyed arbr.
The attacks on Bryan Ball re his sign off message are another example of
the venom and nit picking of a few on this group.
(Bryan contributes immensely to recumbents and cycling with his
Bentrideronline.)

I know next to nothing about Mr. Ball. For all I know he is one of the
giants of the earth. But I do know that in his posts to this newsgroup
he has never had a kind word to say about me, so I of course I just
reciprocate the sentiment. What is wrong with that?

Ed Dolan started out in good humor to counter liberal biases on arbr,
but he has over done it.
But Ed Dolan is not the only, or even main, OT poster. Tom Sherman, for
one, posts many liberal OT posts.

Thanks for being even handed at least. You are one of the few. I have
escalated my rhetoric in response to personal attacks on me from my
liberal adversaries. Politics is not for children. It is serious
business and I am dead serious.

I'm just plain sick of OT posts. Yes, one filters posts, but is it
worthwhile, especially when there are good alternatives as Bentrideronline
and Yahoo Groups.
There are many here who focus on biking and contribute worthwhile ideas,
humor, and friendship, but these folks are getting drowned in a sea of
politics and personal attacks and nit picking that has nothing to do with
biking.

Don't ever go to a newsgroup for friendship! Even when you think you
have found it, it is an illusion. This is cyberspace and it is for the
exchange of words only. There is reality and then there is the
Internet. Don't ever confuse the two.

Those who want to talk politics, go to a politics newsgroup.
Those that want to fight, email duel.
And those that need to show how clever they are, go to a Mensa group.
Try to recall those that you really like and who have left arbr over the
years or who hardly post any more and ask "Why?".

Al, no one can stay on a newsgroup forever. We all of us wear out our
welcomes, some sooner than others. I think 2 years is about right.
Then it is time to move on to something else.

I have noticed a constant change of posters for the short time I have
been here. Of course there is a hard core of regulars. Those seem to
be the ones that are complaining the most. They should probably think
about moving on.

ARBR will always be here and will go on as always. The OT threads will
always just be a small number and easily ignored by those who want to
ignore them. 90% of the threads will be recumbent related topics as
always. And that will more than satisfy most folks.

Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

ARBR has gone downhill

Porquer Torquer wrote in message ...

[...]

Maybe you should quit trying to be such an uptight control freak and do
what everyone else does--ignore or killfile the obvious flamage and get
on with your life.

Like it or not, unmoderated newsgroups are conversation. And when people
start conversing, the subject matter is going to meander. There's going
to be stuff spilling over the sides and making a mess. Step over the
yucky parts and keep going.

Whining about it sure isn't going to change anything. People have been
carping about OT posts in every newsgroup (except maybe alt.tasteless)
since time began (Jan 1, 1970).

And since this is a recumbent newsgroup, your subject line should read:
"ARBR is really going UPHILL"

Porquer Torquer, where have you been all my life? At last someone is
saying something sensible about OT and how human conversation works.
That is all posting is, it is just conversation back and forth between
two individuals that others can get in on whenever and wherever they
want. And then it can branch off into totally unexpected directions
and end up in the oddest of places. Just like in real life! I have
never posted anything that others did not respond to in a way that I
could not have predicted. That is why a newsgroup is endlessly
fascinating.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

ARBR has gone downhill

Hi Cletus,

I have been reading and posting here since 1998. Since then, I have met
or talked on the phone with dozens of folks here. I have ridden or raced
with a good number of these people, and it has been a pleasure to do so.
It is true that the NG has been significantly "dumbed down" by OT drivel
and many of the quality posters are gone, but then in the old days I
never used to get 250 spam emails a day like I do now either. It seems
that banality is the rule of the day now, and we should all be prepared
to deal with that or leave.

A sure sign that this group has gone to the dogs is the fact that all
the women have been chased off. Or anyone with any level of sensibility
for that matter. I remember the good old days when there were posts
by the likes of Beth, or Marci, or Melanie, and I am sure I am leaving
out others. I miss folks with a good sense of humor like Scott, or
those that have a passion for cycling and broad experience and the
ability to express themselves beautifully like Kent Peterson.

I also remember saars.lists.recumbent and the really good technical
information to be found there before it died. The point I am making is
that the best recumbent posting is no longer going on in this NG - it is
a wasteland now to be scanned periodically but given low priority
because it is so troll infested. Permanently, it seems. The bent bent
posts are to be found at other sources now, which I will not divulge for
obvious reasons.

Cheers,
Derek

ARBR has gone downhill

Cletus,

I was one that openly chose not to join you in your resolution. I
thought that OTs were still at a workable level. You were right. I
was wrong.

Gary McCarty, Greenspeed GTO, Salt Lake City

Cletus D. Lee wrote in message ET...

About a year ago (Date: 2002-12-02 12:19:15 PST), I made an early New
Years Resolution to not participate in OT inflammatory posts.

ARBR has gone downhill

"Cletus D. Lee" wrote

Without quality, this group will atrophy. If you let it be
dominated by a few foul mouthed jerks, ARBR will certainly lose its
mission. Only by speaking out against the foul-mouthed jerks will they
get the message. Feeding their vitriol will only continue the downward
spiral into the sewage pits. It is your choice, you can speak up or you
can leave. If you leave, 'they' win.

Yes. Yes.

Those bent on shaping the group with their slanderous, vulgar,
offensive, and abusive (mal)content are clearly revealed for
what they *are* and what they want to be *known for* by
their words. That they seek to see their names as dominant
in the ARBR newsgroup listings is telling.

We can choose to abandon the newsgroup to them in disgust.
Or not.
We can choose to let them "push our buttons".
Or not.

It seems unlikely they will be changed, so we must be.

Take to the newsgroup with a modicum of decorum and
good humor and respect. Don't leave. Post. Post. Post.
Raise the signal level.

Jon Meinecke